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Windows Mobile 7 offers a bright, fresh look that surprisingly bears no resemblance to the iPhone, unlike its competitors.

The new Windows Mobile 7, set to release this holiday season, essentially acts an Xbox handheld, a Zune video/music player, and phone rolled into one. The Music+Video hub looks almost identitcal to the Microsoft's Zune HD software.  (Source: Microsoft)

The phone also offers a clean, rich RSS-like social network feed akin to the new Google Buzz service.  (Source: Microsoft)
New mobile OS from Microsoft to launch this holiday season, hardware will be consistently high quality

There's a sort of beautiful symmetry in Microsoft's mobile phone operating system announcement which aired today at the 2010 Mobile World Congress in Barcelona.  Holiday season 2009 Microsoft unleashed Windows 7, a desktop operating system that turned people's preconceptions upside down and fueled unprecedented sales.  This year it will look to do the same, with the release of Windows Mobile 7.

Forget the talk of delays (okay, so the OS will land almost in 2011), forget all the complaints about the past Windows Mobile operating systems, forget Microsoft's slipping market share; you need to look at Windows Mobile with a fresh set of eyes because it is completely different.

The first surprise is in the base operating system.  The past Windows Mobile operating system code base is about to become officially retired, relegated to some forgotten change management repository.  In its place will be an entirely new mobile phone operating system built atop the existing OS on Microsoft's Zune MP3 players.

In that respect Windows Mobile 7 could be hailed as the long awaited "Zune phone" as it shares much of the look of the Zune, with bright, flat square icons, large text and nary a chiclet in site.  The look provides the first true alternative to the iPhone (competitors like Palm and Google have largely emulated Apple's chiclet grid look) and will likely appeal to many customers.

Microsoft's phone is built around six key hubs -- People, Pictures, Games, Music+Video, Marketplace, and Office -- each a colorful and unique digital playground. 

People will stream updates from Facebook and Windows Live, sort of like a RSS feed on steroids (or the recently unveiled Google Buzz).  Despite the reinvention, people will find scraps of similarity; the Music+Video hub is virtually identical to the software on the Zune HD.  It incorporates a music/video store, a media player, and mild social networking.

Games is another place people will find familiar looks.  Games is essentially Microsoft's long awaited mobile Xbox handheld.  With the iPhone tearing up game sales charts, its clear that this is long overdue.

Marketplace will be Microsoft's rival to the App store.  Here's a surprise -- no past Windows Mobile apps will work on the phone or be in the store.  That's right, unlike some (Palm), Microsoft's OS reinvention includes wiping the slate clean with apps.  That downside is that means less apps and some unhappy developers, the upside is that customers can expect cleaner, fresher applications.  Another slight surprise is that there will be no desktop Syncing other than standard Zune syncing; everything else will be done over the air.

Office and Pictures are much like you'd expect -- a photo gallery, and a promising, improved portable version of Microsoft's Office software. 

Another critical piece of the interface is the browser -- the browser will be a multi-touch version of Internet Explorer.  While it's no shocker that it's not blazing fast given how slow its desktop brethren are, the browser still looks pretty nice.  And you can bet Opera and Mozilla already have faster browsers in the works. 

Email will be handled through a mobile Outlook client that looks to be a fusion of beauty and efficiency in a tight package.  The client has full support for Microsoft Exchange.

Microsoft is opting for an approach somewhere in between Apple's as its past mobile phone approach when it comes to hardware.  Previously it had virtually no restrictions.  Now, it's being choosy. While it still is not designing the phone itself, it has made hardware guidelines extremely strict.  Every phone must meet certain speed requirements, support multitouch, have a Bing button (for quick searching), have an FM radio built in, and meet battery life requirements.  Certain alterations, such as custom skins (like HTC's), are banned.

In short Windows Mobile 7 looks to be another dynamic holiday launch for Microsoft.  Former Microsoft VP Dick Brass (see his recent criticism) better be taking note -- because this new phone OS is arguably the most revolutionary thing to happen to the phone market since the launch of the first iPhone in 2007.  Looks like Apple might finally have a true fight on its hands for the title of trendiest smart phone.


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No apple fan here but....
By semiconshawn on 2/15/2010 10:26:41 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Looks like Apple might finally have a true fight on its hands for the title of trendiest smart phone.


Seems like a premature statement. One limited demo and its an iphone challenger? Maybe we should wait to try it before we crown it.




RE: No apple fan here but....
By sweetsauce on 2/15/2010 10:27:21 AM , Rating: 3
You're right, he should have said, "(I HOPE) Apple might finally have a true fight on its hands for the title of trendiest smart phone."

Competition breeds innovation.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By bradmshannon on 2/15/2010 10:33:59 AM , Rating: 3
What about Android? It's probably the first true iPhone competitor


RE: No apple fan here but....
By reader1 on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By invidious on 2/15/2010 2:37:15 PM , Rating: 4
The article backed up its reasoning for not considering Android a true competator, perhaps you should read it again. Droid is an iPhone clone with hardware upgrades (slide out keyboard, d-pad, better camera, louder speaker) and more open source approach to Apps. Droid is a great phone but it doesn't change what a smartphone can do, it is just trying to do what the iPhone does, but better.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:02:24 PM , Rating: 5
While underrated and devalued really the Palm Pre is the first iPhone competitor and frankly having used the iPhone, Palm Pre and Nexus One, the Palm Pre is more evolved that Android in interface and usability.

It has every feature the iPhone has + multitasking and it's UI is BETTER than iPhone OS. Your finger never leaves the bottom half of the screen to do anything. Contrast that with the iPhone where you are constantly using your finger to reach to the top left to go back and hit the button on the bottom which is the most UNERGONOMIC place to put that button.

The Pre's only downfall was choosing that 3rd rate carrier: Sprint to launch on. Well that and the fact that it does not have the marketing (hype) muscle of Apple.

For full disclosure: I use an iPhone 3GS as my daily phone. I can't switch to Sprint and nor can I handle that horrid slider. I hope the next generation Palm hardware is decent. The OS/UI is clearly better than iPhone.

As for the Nexus One, it still has kinks to be worked out. The interface is reminiscent of WinMo 6.5 and it fails to respond to touches and swipes at times. I think HTC Sense UI is better for Android.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By johned3 on 2/15/2010 4:36:07 PM , Rating: 2
Verizon has the Pre now.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By johnr81 on 2/15/2010 8:18:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
nor can I handle that horrid slider


It's worth mentioning there's the Palm Pixi with no slider, basically a Blackberry look:
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pixi/index....


RE: No apple fan here but....
By nafhan on 2/15/2010 10:46:35 AM , Rating: 5
There's nothing premature about that statement. It "might" be better than the iPhone OS, or it "might" suck. It's an iPhone challenger by virtue of being a smartphone OS from Apple's largest competitor. The question is whether or not it will be a successful iPhone challenger, and that can't be answered until it's released on an actual phone and we get some sales numbers. Right now, it just has potential, and I don't think the author of the article is claiming otherwise.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By semiconshawn on 2/15/2010 11:01:49 AM , Rating: 2
Right semantics. Good post.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By semiconshawn on 2/15/2010 11:21:42 AM , Rating: 3
I would say for it to be a challenger or a competitor or hell even not just vapor ware it would have to be available. By your definition a stick made by MS 'might' be an iphone challenger. We just cant try it out yet or see if it sells. Throwing in a blatant opinion and qualifying it with a 'might' at the end of an otherwise informative blog is like frosting your chocolate cake with a turd.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By GaryJohnson on 2/15/2010 11:46:25 AM , Rating: 5
You haven't been on DT very long. That's one of the least opinionative statements Jason has ever made.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By nafhan on 2/15/2010 2:15:04 PM , Rating: 3
Yep, I agree. Speculating on unreleased products is borderline pointless. We do it anyway, though :)


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Omega215D on 2/15/2010 3:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
Cnet does this regularly and sometimes have the guts to already give it a verdict before giving non-Apple devices a thorough testing.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By MonkeyPaw on 2/15/2010 11:47:39 AM , Rating: 2
Also, Windows Mobile is pretty common in the office environment. Like the iPhone, Blackberries running WinMo are also everywhere. If WinMo7 continues to build on its corporate compatibility, then it will be a big iPhone competitor. What MS will need to do to make it succeed is to allow you to disable things like the marketplace and the music player--that way they get the corporate buy-in. Perhaps there will be a WinMo7 pro/office version?


RE: No apple fan here but....
By jconan on 2/15/2010 4:55:42 PM , Rating: 2
They have a different edition for the corporate market - Windows Mobile 7 Business Edition


RE: No apple fan here but....
By sxr7171 on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/15/2010 11:19:59 AM , Rating: 3
"Seems like a premature statement. One limited demo and its an iphone challenger? Maybe we should wait to try it before we crown it. "

It may be premature, but at some point MS will own it if they choose to... Never count MS out. They have the funds and talent to get it done - they just need to focus on it.

Look at Windows, IE, MS Office. All were lacking compared to the competition at some point. Now, many years and many versions later they all 3 own thier market share (although IE is losing focus). If MS decides to focus on mobile, they will eventually own it as well. They have the time and money to do it.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: No apple fan here but....
By namechamps on 2/15/2010 3:11:11 PM , Rating: 3
That is simply because MSFT saw no reason to have more cash.

MSFT at one time hoarded substantially more cash but given its size it is unlikely it will ever get regulatory approval to buy out a $100B competitor.

As such MSFT started returning a lot of cash to shareholders ($4.4B just last year) in form of dividend.

MSFT still had $6.7B NET cashflow in Q4 (compared to $3.4B). They have the ability to buy a ticket to any dance they want to attend.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 7:24:58 AM , Rating: 2
RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 7:37:59 AM , Rating: 3
nt to post this too.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-sha...

MY Point is if they want it they can do it. If they decide to put in effort and make IE better they can do if they want. they do still have the vastly largest share of the market - suck or not IE is still by far the most used.

XBOX is the same thing. They made it and tried the market, but they didnt make a descision to "own the market" ... Much like with WinMobile and ZUNE - it was just a project not a focus.

My point is that IF MS decides to really make the best mobile OS and put thier best teams on it and make it #1 they can. == To this point they have not and Win Mobile sucks rocks - big rocks. But do not count them out.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 5:19:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if they want it they can do it
You'd better tell me the most tricky part - why they DON'T want it?


RE: No apple fan here but....
By adiposity on 2/16/2010 6:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
You can't really compare the dominance of the Windows OS to the future quality of untested products. While I use Windows, and like many things about it, I wouldn't necessarily say it is dominant because MS decided to make it the best.

The Windows OS has huge momentum going for it and it's not easily replaced for most users. Therefore the huge market share can more be attributed to "mindshare" than quality.

Therefore, your argument that their huge marketshare in the desktop OS means they can deliver an excellent mobile OS does not follow. From the sound of things, they are making the hard choices that were required: dropping WinMo 6 and going with a modified Zune OS. However, we don't know if this will result in a good product or not, or if it will catch on.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 7:39:57 AM , Rating: 1
why are you showing me the graph where Windows loses market share while Mac gains it? you wanna prove my point? that's not necessary, but thanks anyway.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 1:34:21 PM , Rating: 2
uhhh... 92% vs 5%. that PRETTY MUCH makes my point that MS owns that Market.

Separate issue but if you didnt notice, Macs "meteoric" (LOL) rise from 3.5 to 5% over the past few years stopped in October 2009. Its going down now too.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 5:27:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
that PRETTY MUCH makes my point that MS owns that Market
It also PRETTY MUCH makes my point about Windows constantly losing market share :P


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 7:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
you are truly hopeless - LOL

Nothing I have said here is fanboyish. Its all fact. I post a chart showing marketshare and state that MS has the money and time to do whatever they want to do. You of course being a TRUE fanboy take that as an insult to your precious Apple. It wasn't attacking Apple, just saying a well known fact that MS owns the OS market, not by a little, but by a huge margin.

I even go one further and said that Win Mobile is a POS. Its a Total POS - although I havent seen Winmob 7, I doubt it will be great like the iPhone OS. Not yet anyhow, not unless they put alot of effort into it.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By themaster08 on 2/17/2010 5:49:20 AM , Rating: 2
Mac gained marketshare, that's all fine and dandy. But the original point wasn't about gaining or losing marketshare, it was about initial market share. Perhaps the OP would have been better off posting plain figures.

The way you twist the truth to suit your own half baked argument is quite ridiculous. I'm sure you can do better than that.

At least with a fanboy, they stick to their opinions. Your view shifts depending upon who posted what, because you somehow think your posts balance the argument.

But the truth is, no one really knows what you're trying to be, because even when plain facts are posted, you avoid the truth to stir up an argument, not to balance it.

I've come to the conclusion that you're worse than reader1. He might be an absolute asshat but at least he keeps Jobs's balls in his mouth. You have Ballmer's left ball and Job's right.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/17/2010 1:45:17 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
the original point wasn't about gaining or losing marketshare, it was about initial market share
You say so because it serves your version of reality better. You notice only the large market share of MS but pretend to be blind when I show you how this large market share keeps shrinking. You should learn to be objective, not a fanboy. Notice everything, stop pretending you're blind when it serves you.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/17/2010 7:23:45 AM , Rating: 2
I see that it went down from 93.5 to 92%. That isnt relevent to this conversation. This was about MS owning that market and they do. They put their mind to owning it, they put together a plan and an OS and made it happen. Your fanboy ass saw this and took offense and made it a Mac issue. Now you saw I am ignoring the fact that it went down? No, I see it went down - I am ignoring something that it totally irrelevant to this thread.

You are twisted my friend. Your overcompensation is transparent. Its big enough, stop thinking about it - OK?


RE: No apple fan here but....
By sxr7171 on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: No apple fan here but....
By Sazar on 2/15/2010 5:59:39 PM , Rating: 4
Last I checked Pirks, the Xbox division was in the black and was still selling well.

Last I checked, the Playstation3 platform was STILL losing money for Sony, in the red despite the smaller chassis being released, even though sales numbers are decent.

Please, let me know how you define success, because a loss-leader is not usually a success.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By Sazar on 2/16/2010 4:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
Because it is irrelevant. It caters to an entirely different customer and fills a different niche. Notice that I am also not including the iPhone and the Nintendo DS in the comparison for gaming devices.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 5:39:59 PM , Rating: 1
PS3 can be also described as catering to a different niche (say, those who want BluRay as opposed to Xbox ancient DVD) so not an argument.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By themaster08 on 2/17/2010 6:01:03 AM , Rating: 2
That's true, however you can't deny that their main goal is to target the same market that the Xbox is after.

It's well known that the Wii's main goal is to target casual gamers as opposed to hardcore.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 7:23:29 AM , Rating: 3
"Windows and Office "successes" are simply due to the defacto monopoly they have in those markets."

OMG what planet were you on for the last 2 decades?

Windows and Office's success GAVE MS thier monopoly. The whole world runs off Windows PC's and OFfice - inclusing the factories that build Mac's.

Those were 3 examples of where MS OWNS the market and marketshare - NOT a personal opinion of how great the product is or is not. The do own those markets and if they decide to own mobile they can refocus efforts and get it right eventually.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 7:48:14 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
they can refocus efforts and get it right eventually
IE-style, eh? ;)


RE: No apple fan here but....
By retrospooty on 2/16/2010 1:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
meh... dont ask me. I have used Firefox since it came out and love it. Like I said, its not a personal opinion on the product...

Back in the day when IE was being focused on, they did gain marketshare. At the time Netscape navigator / communicator was widley used and IE was not. IE then became the #1 browser and really did work the best until recent years when they stopped focusing on it - then Opera and Firefox came out and work better and started eroding MS's marketshare.

Again, like I said - IF MS focuses on it, they can and will own the market. Up until now, MS has not focuses on mobile OS. I have used Winmobile 6 and 6.5 and it sucks.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By jojo29 on 2/15/2010 11:15:22 AM , Rating: 3
I agree, the writer of this article is clearly showing whom he "favors"..not that its a bad thing, just when it shows in your writing, your clearly a "fanboy" <--i use the termboth lightly and for lack of a better word.

If anyone is going to give Apple a fight for the trendiest smart phone it will come from either RIM or, once and if, Google can somehow unify and streamline their Android OS/Phones.

Microsoft has not even been defending itself in the smartphone market, let alone be ready to throw a punch...BUT, Windows 7 is a good start...but that is all it is...a start...MS has a long uphill battle in the smartphone market...


RE: No apple fan here but....
By foolsgambit11 on 2/15/2010 6:35:23 PM , Rating: 3
It's funny, a few years ago, everybody accused Jason Mick of being an Apple fanboy. So if he is a fanboy, he's not a very devoted one. It seems to me that it's more that he gets excited about innovation. He likes to see technology companies one-upping each other, because then we're all winners. Sure, his writing style leans heavily on hyperbole from time to time - okay, frequently - but if he has any bias, I'd say it's for whatever is new and exciting, and not for any specific company or product line.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By superPC on 2/15/2010 11:22:51 AM , Rating: 2
and for those who haven't seen it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUsvOZsziRw i'd say that's a pretty different approach to mobile phone OS. i've used plenty of phones, iphone, nokia, blackberry, sony ericsson, motorolla, android, etc, but i've never seen a mobile OS quite like this.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By sxr7171 on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: No apple fan here but....
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
Also I expect gesture driven navigation. I don't see it there.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By bodar on 2/15/2010 8:44:14 PM , Rating: 2
There were no fingers in the video, since it is a mockup. How does this indicate that there is no gesture navigation? The Zune HD uses gesture navigation. Why couldn't this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JtMnkNh8jY&feature...


RE: No apple fan here but....
By superPC on 2/15/2010 4:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
ehm, in case you didn't pay close attention to the video: from 38s-1:16, you can see clearly that besides each person contact (which list phone number, email and chat id) WinMo also sync info from their social networking site, their status update, their recent photo upload etc and give option to give comment. i don't see any other phone have such feature (i'm using E52 right now). of course this is can be easily tact on to any phone OS, but if that OS was not design from the ground up to enable this, it would feel tacked on, while as you can see from the video, it feels natural on WinMo7.


RE: No apple fan here but....
By djcameron on 2/15/2010 1:46:14 PM , Rating: 3
LMAO... "No apple fan here" Fanboys are funny!


RE: No apple fan here but....
By Jonh68 on 2/15/2010 2:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
Not really. It is going up against the iphone so it is a challenger.


The point is
By Aberforth on 2/15/2010 10:32:49 AM , Rating: 2
Will it be Unlocked?
Will it be available worldwide?

The answer is No. Because Zune is restricted to only some countries where as Xbox live is worldwide, so there will be some features missing- which I think won't attract many people, especially if you are aiming for non business users.




RE: The point is
By Lonyo on 2/15/2010 10:54:03 AM , Rating: 2
It's not out for quite a while.
One might *HOPE* that by the MS might have done more with products such as the Zune and considered the worldwide nature of technology.

Bear in mind also that some other products were hardly worldwide products at release either (see... iPhone, etc), so even if it only has a limited release (say NA and Europe), it won't be crippling itself assuming MS manage to sort their act out and make their services available worldwide.


RE: The point is
By Aberforth on 2/15/2010 11:00:10 AM , Rating: 3
I'm telling you from a business perspective. This is where Nokia, Sony and Samsung win, because most of the time they are not tied to some weird provider for mobile, music and video. So any guy from say...Sudan can do whatever he wants to do with it. When you present gadgets like iPhone, Zune and Kindle...it becomes a highly restricted market with companies feeding each other through contracts eventually becoming a stealth marketing tactic. As far as apps for this phone goes, it all depends on how much a developer would want to learn Windows Presentation Foundation and other .NET technologies, because these are huge platforms with a huge learning curve.


RE: The point is
By aftlizard on 2/15/2010 11:01:25 AM , Rating: 2
MS has been testing Zune outside of the US for awhile. Not to mention my understanding is that the phone doesn't need Zune for the music aspect.


RE: The point is
By aftlizard on 2/15/2010 11:05:23 AM , Rating: 2
I just found this article:
Zune 4.2 update points to Zune phone, European support

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/01/zune...

So it sounds to me that the Zune software will in fact be available in Europe, and more than likely any region that will sale the phone.


RE: The point is
By gibb3h on 2/15/2010 11:11:10 AM , Rating: 2
I've been using Zune software in England since I first got my 80gb Zune 2 years ago


Dev Platform? Multi-tasking?
By reretteK on 2/15/2010 10:30:02 AM , Rating: 4
What is the development platform? VS.Net or something else?

Does it or will it soon support multi-tasking?

GPS? WiFi? Stero jack and mini-USB or proprietary connections?

More details needed!




RE: Dev Platform? Multi-tasking?
By zombiexl on 2/15/2010 11:36:49 AM , Rating: 3
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say VS.Net for dev considering you can write zune games using .net and XNA currently.


RE: Dev Platform? Multi-tasking?
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:28:34 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, those are the questions that need asking. This little "Zunephone" video doesn't answer anything. That dev platform better be good seeing as all software has to be rewritten for it.


Kanas City Royals
By hiscross on 2/15/2010 11:13:27 AM , Rating: 2
With baseball just around the corner and WinMoble 7 coming, it seems like no better time predict that WinMobile 7 will shutdown the iPhone. As for baseball the Kanas City Royals win beat the Pittsburg Pirates in the 2010 World Series. Exciting times ahead.




RE: Kanas City Royals
By Denigrate on 2/15/2010 12:59:15 PM , Rating: 2
As a long suffering Royals fan, I resent your implication that there's no hope for the Royals to be back on top.

Can't exactly deny you are correct, but I still don't have to like it. Though we do have the best Pitcher in all of baseball in Zach Greinke.


RE: Kanas City Royals
By hiscross on 2/15/2010 2:55:11 PM , Rating: 2
Then maybe he will in the 3 spot next after this guy and AJ http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?pla...

I do wish teams like yours and Pittsburgh would get in going. Baseball only has about 5 - 8 competitive teams. I bet you wish George Brett could hit against the Goose again.


RE: Kanas City Royals
By Black69ta on 2/17/2010 9:53:23 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah Why does he have to bring our beloved Royals into this thread, they have done nothing wrong.

Good thing sports fans aren't all like Apple/AMD fans. Oh wait I remember a few years ago when a certain Dallas team was on top and Wal-mart sold walls of apparel, now there is very little if any, and they don't even sell Chiefs Apparel in KC, Kansas.

Few of us "true" Fans still exist,


meh its MS
By poohbear on 2/16/2010 2:50:10 AM , Rating: 1
The thing people @ MS just don't get is they lack the cool factor. Young people view Apple as trendy, chic, and cool. MS just doesn't have that. They think like Engineers, Apple thinks like Artists. For a social situation, who would u rather hang out w/? The dry and socially inept engineer, or the hip and suave artist? I mean that's what this is all about, "being trendy w/ the latest gadget", if u really just need a phone u can buy so many for a helluva lot cheaper.

MS really needs to change their image to sell products to such an audience, IF that's even possible. By 2011 it might be wayyyy too late.




RE: meh its MS
By piroroadkill on 2/16/2010 5:36:53 AM , Rating: 3
The engineer, any day


RE: meh its MS
By Black69ta on 2/17/2010 10:00:57 AM , Rating: 2
I disagree, I notice older less hip people buy into the hype, they see the advertisements, that show and easy simple interface and they see something that will finally let them connect with younger people, between that and the younger less tech savvy people Apple has a huge market of untapped demographics.


By KaarlisK on 2/15/2010 9:14:13 PM , Rating: 2
I hate to say this, but I am a bit disappointed.
The one thing keeping me with Windows Mobile is the wealth of apps I have and use, the ability to customize the interface/cook ROMs, and the very easy multitasking.
On the other hand, I am also one of those who does not like WinMo6.5's start menu, because there is no "last used applications" feature and because you cannot get to the homescreen by clicking the Windows button twice.




New Version of IE Please
By MGSsancho on 2/15/2010 10:38:45 PM , Rating: 2
The version of IE on my Zune HD... well i think possible IE6 or IE7 based. heck my dlink 655 router wont let me access it with my Zune. Yes it renders text very nicely but many sites break, anandtech, slashdot, non mobile facebook etc. Please MSFT, make it at least a Mobile IE8!!!




By OCedHrt on 2/16/2010 2:34:04 AM , Rating: 2
I do hope there will be other ways for manufacturers to differentiate their phones.




This is great..!
By eddieroolz on 2/16/2010 2:54:24 AM , Rating: 2
If Windows Mobile 7 lives up to its hype and is as good as I think it will be - then it just might convince me to stop importing my phones from Japan!




By HukaShakaHukaHuka on 2/16/2010 3:02:55 PM , Rating: 2
I don't mind being stuck with Internet Explorer and Outlook at work, but I will not run them away from work. So the inclusion of these two white elephants is a major turn off for me.

They are also throwing off the running train any past windows mobile developers. What a great way to ask developer community to ignore Iphone and android and join MS in its wild goose chase years behind competitors.




Change for changes sake?
By toyotabedzrock on 2/15/2010 4:31:42 PM , Rating: 1
I don't like some of these changes at all. I was planning on getting WM7 but now I might stick with WM6.5.

There is no reason to abandon syncing. Yes over the air syncing is great, but what if I want to place non WM files on my phone? Or if I download a rar file to access it later when I'm back at my computer? I also do not in any way want Zune software on my computer!

The interface looks drab. The main buttons look like they're not buttons. If you saw a button designed like that on the web would you even know it was a button?

Does the design grab your eyes attention and resurrect that feeling we all had when we where young to push all the buttons?

And it is totally unnecessary to exclude all previous apps, and frankly lazy that they won't build a compatibility layer.

There are years and years of in depth knowledge about the previous WM OS. It's so different that everyone who still likes and uses WM has no reason not to switch to something like andriod now.




Moblin + Maemo = Meego
By crystal clear on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
Ballmer's done.
By reader1 on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By gibb3h on 2/15/2010 10:31:18 AM , Rating: 4
yes, because hes done terribly for the company so far...


RE: Ballmer's done.
By semiconshawn on 2/15/2010 10:41:24 AM , Rating: 2
Right like the mac is kicking the unique pc's ass. There is no more dilute "brand" than pc and yet they continue to sell like crazy. I wonder how they do that without an apple on the side?


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By semiconshawn on 2/15/2010 11:44:43 AM , Rating: 3
You are kidding right? Microsoft wants everyone to sell as many cheap pc's as they can. They make money on the License. Selling a $5k alienware is not better than selling 5 $1k Dells for MS.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:17:29 PM , Rating: 3
With the release of Windows 7, and the increasing performance, we're starting to see Windows XP faded out of the netbook market. That makes your point moot.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:36:09 PM , Rating: 3
I was actually referring to this point, if it wasn't so bleedingly obvious -

quote:
Even heard of MS complains about how they are forced to sell ubercheap XP with netbooks and how their revenue suffers because of that? No? I thought so :P

quote:
You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

No, but you're trying to twist mine. Unfortunately you failed.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
But now you're only talking about the entire PC ecosystem because it suits your argument. Failed again.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's done.
By Donkeyshins on 2/15/2010 12:47:51 PM , Rating: 2
Does a $12k Rolex Daytona Oyster Perpetual tell time any better than a $50 Timex? Probably not, but it's great for reinforcing that fragile ego. If something truly performs better (and you can't argue from a hardware standpoint that a Mac performs any better than a home-built PC running identical components), then the price premium is justified.

(OK, I'll give you that Apple has great industrial design, but for some folks, that's just not very important).


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Ballmer's done.
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:35:00 PM , Rating: 1
Great industrial design is Lenovo Thinkpad. Cheesy industrial design is the MacBook. Has anyone noticed how heavy Macbooks are? Nowhere even close to the Magnesium alloy/Carbon fiber construction of high end Thinkpads.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By SavagePotato on 2/15/2010 5:34:49 PM , Rating: 3
Actually it would most likely tell time worse. A mechanical watch will lose far more accuracy and have to be set more often than a 40 dollar quartz timex, and more accurate still is the simple ugly digital.

Plus you have to take in the mechanical watch every 5 years or so for a very expensive servicing.

This actually translates to many items of the kind.

Apple can be seen the same way. Their products take away features you can get with a better performing less expensive product, and make their deluded fans thank them for it because of how pretty they feel it looks.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 5:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Their products take away features you can get with a better performing less expensive product
Yeah, like a feature called "short battery life". Oh evil Jobs, why did you get rid of this feature, Potato wants it so bad :)))


RE: Ballmer's done.
By piroroadkill on 2/16/2010 5:41:46 AM , Rating: 2
No, but it does make you look like a boring, smug prick


RE: Ballmer's done.
By RjBass on 2/15/2010 11:17:05 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see how the iPhone is so unique when most people have them and they all look the same. I can see an iPhone a mile away and know what it is. But I have fun looking at peoples phones and trying to guess what it is when it isn't and iPhone. The iPhone was unique 3 years ago at introduction, but nothing about it is unique now. It's rather dull now.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:39:14 PM , Rating: 2
It was unique then but it also sucked then. It was for Apple fans who could live without things like calendar entry on the phone. While today everybody and their sister has an iPhone it really has evolved into a capable device. Exchange support, server search, in device search, mapping that works better than everything except Android, and complete integration of basic features. Jailbroken, it is a powerful device.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:12:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, so your prediction about Ballmer getting a boot in 5 years may hold some water given that Jobs is definitely not going to sit still for the next couple of years. By the time WinMo 7 is out Apple will have second generation of iPad and 4th or even 5th generation of iPhone on _MULTIPLE_ US carriers.

This statement really blazes my balls, and Reader1 does the same thing. You talk as though Apple are the only ones who will make technological advances, whilst everyone else will remain the same. Whilst Apple are on their 4th iteration of the iFad (if it even gets that far) you don't think other manufacturers will be doing the same thing?

quote:
he can't win unless he learns to predict the future the way Jobs does but it's impossible.

I agree that looking to the future is important, but in some cases, it can be focussed upon too much.

Have you ever heard of the expression "ahead of it's time?

Besides, Microsoft use another very effective technique other than predicting the future. It's called listening to their customers.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:22:50 PM , Rating: 2
Nitpicking at it's finest!


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 12:45:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He just develops stuff he feels "right" and he polishes it to perfection by investing as much time and money as he feels is necessary to make it "right".

Perfection? Right, I get you. You mean like this, right?

http://www.dailytech.com/An+Apple+or+a+Lemon+IMacs...

quote:
Okay, so MS followed its customers, improved things in Zune, WinMo, IE and stuff... and is still losing ground.


Microsoft is losing ground? Sure. Like this?

http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+7+is+Fastestselli...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17590

Where've you been lately?


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/2010 2:56:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You mean like this
Every single company has lemons (AKA random manufacturing defects) in one form or another. Not an argument.
quote:
Where've you been lately?

Here
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.as...
and here
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-sha...

:P hehehe


RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/15/2010 4:20:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not an argument.

Don't make such absurd statements like this then -
quote:
he polishes it to perfection

quote:
Here http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.as... and here http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-sha... :P hehehe

I hardly see your point. If Windows 7 was another flop it would have the same public persona as Vista. Market share is one thing, but Windows 7 is undeniably a success.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 7:57:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't make such absurd statements
You just don't understand (yet?) the fact that any perfect product may have random manufacturing defects, it's not related to perfection at all.
quote:
Windows 7 is undeniably a success
Ah, now I see, you're trying to slip out by replacing Windows in general with just one version, namely Windows 7.

Nice try :) hehehe


RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/16/2010 12:11:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You just don't understand (yet?) the fact that any perfect product may have random manufacturing defects, it's not related to perfection at all.

quote:
Perfect - excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement.

Considering malfunctioning defects can be improved upon, such products are not perfect. Unless of course, you mean that as an oxymoron.

quote:
Ah, now I see, you're trying to slip out by replacing Windows in general with just one version, namely Windows 7.

Considering the link I provided circumnavigated at Windows 7, I can't see how I'm slipping away from anything.

Besides, the original point you made was that Microsoft are losing ground. Mentioning other versions of Windows would be defunct on the grounds that they are the past, and Windows 7 is now.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/16/2010 5:46:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
malfunctioning defects can be improved upon
Randomness cannot be improved upon. You walk normal but you randomly fall, rare but still do, say you slip on ice once in a while or whatever. Try to improve upon that randomness. This should help you to understand.
quote:
they are the past, and Windows 7 is now
In other words, older Windows loses ground much quicker than newer Windows reclaims it. Too bad for MS :P


RE: Ballmer's done.
By themaster08 on 2/17/2010 6:10:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Too bad for MS

Too bad for your failed attempt at twisting the truth.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/17/2010 2:02:24 PM , Rating: 2
Which truth? About declining Windows market share? But it's not me making those market share graphs, and you know it. So why picking on me then?


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Aberforth on 2/15/2010 12:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
Well, MS sucks at marketing...that's all. They introduced tablets, mobile phones and technologies long before apple did, in fact the Tablet is still BillyG's favorite gadget. Don't look at statistics, MS has a tremendous footprint all over the world unlike Apple and will never lose the market share because they will fight to death to compete, it's in their nature to dilute a market in order to balance the market share.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:44:45 PM , Rating: 2
They suck at releasing a usable product. Bill Gates himself years ago proclaimed the Tablet the wave of the future. The only thing they released for it was One Note. Any MS fan saw the hype behind tablet PCs years ago and it was pushed hard.

In all these years when you look at Win 7 touch it looks sadly pathetic. MS Office has not been adapted to touch either. Just OneNote. No they basically didn't put any heart into their tablet software and still they are behind to the point that Apple can release such JUNK as the iPad and still sell more.

I don't like the iPad one bit, but I still think its better than anything MS released. At least it can be a "couch browser" but Win 7 touch as it stands isn't really even good for that. I hope it changes this year, but my bets on Tablets are on Android.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Donkeyshins on 2/15/2010 12:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How about this one: Jobs succeds precisely because he doesn't listen to some "customers". He just develops stuff he feels "right" and he polishes it to perfection by investing as much time and money as he feels is necessary to make it "right".


That's worked great for the steaming turds that are Apple TV and iPad.

quote:
While at the same time MS thinks its "customers" may give it ideas for its next product. Okay, so MS followed its customers, improved things in Zune, WinMo, IE and stuff... and is still losing ground. How come? ;) Aren't they supposed to gain market share quickly past few years? What happened man? Did they just stop listening to their customers? Why


I would argue that this has more to do with the fact that "iPod" has become synonymous with "MP3 player" for the vast majority of people the same as "Google" has become synonymous with "Internet Search Engine". Not because Apple (or Google) invented the technology, but more because they really nailed it and have been (to a certain extent) coasting on the name recognition.

And I agree with you - fire Ballmer (and figure out if MS can bring back Jeff Raikes from the Gates Foundation as the new CEO).


RE: Ballmer's done.
By Pirks on 2/15/2010 2:59:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's worked great for the steaming turds that are Apple TV and iPad
Trying to pwn a product that nobody has public sales data for and another product that has not even been released? Is that all you got? :))) hehe


RE: Ballmer's done.
By sxr7171 on 2/15/2010 3:47:17 PM , Rating: 2
Apple TV is a failure. iPad would be a failure but yeah the Apple hype machine has helped it tremendously. What it takes is one good Android based tablet and some common sense among consumers.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By scrapsma54 on 2/15/2010 8:07:35 PM , Rating: 2
Everytime I see Ballmer and he says developers, I keep thinking he is going burst out and start ranting about them.


RE: Ballmer's done.
By scrapsma54 on 2/15/2010 7:56:02 PM , Rating: 2
One thing Microsoft got right on infinite levels was the social networkings of Xbox live. That is undeniable and the one service that profits MS as much as cheap mass marketing of ipod sales profit apple from the shuffle to the iphone.

quote:
Besides, Microsoft use another very effective technique other than predicting the future. It's called listening to their customers.

Well played, themaster08, well played.


"Google fired a shot heard 'round the world, and now a second American company has answered the call to defend the rights of the Chinese people." -- Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.)














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