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Ford EcoBoost V6
High gas prices and a potent turbocharged engine drive V6 sales for Ford's best seller

What good is a big ‘old domestic full-size pickup truck without a V8 engine under the hood? Half-ton pickups and V8 engines go together like peanut butter and jelly or Smith & Wesson. But with gas prices putting the squeeze on many consumers, those who can actually afford to purchase brand new vehicles are trying to be more economical. 

We already reported in late April that Ford is seeing incredible demand for its new EcoBoost V6 engine in the Ford F-150. Reports pegged the EcoBoost V6 engine option as taking 36 percent of all F-150 sales.

However, that figure jumped to 41 percent for the month of May. In addition, the 3.7-liter V6 engine option captured 14 percent, bringing the total haul for V6 engines to over half of all F-150 sales for the month.

According to PickupTrucks.com, the increasing interest in Ford's V6 engine options should come as no surprise given the current state of gas pries in the United States. However, the phenomena is still amazing when you consider that the take rate for V6 engines in competing Toyota Tundra and GMC Sierra/Chevrolet Silverado full size pickups is in the single-digit range.

Ford’s 3.7-liter V6 engine generates 300hp @ 6,500 rpm and 275 lb-ft of torque at 4,500 rpm. It is EPA rated at 17 mpg in the city and 23 mpg on the highway. The popular EcoBoost V6 makes 365hp @ 5,000 rpm and 420 lb-ft of torque at a low 2,500 rpm. It has EPA ratings of 16/22. 

Both engines run on regular unleaded gasoline, which is a plus with high gasoline prices.



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I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By steven975 on 6/2/2011 11:13:57 AM , Rating: 1
I guess I was under the impression the Ecoboost actually yielded both improved performance and increased economy.

This does not appear to be the case, as the EPA milage is lower...but with a turbo-V6, will people achieve even worse mileage in real life?




RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By steven975 on 6/2/2011 11:15:00 AM , Rating: 2
You know, because they'll floor it all the time. I know since going with a forced induction system, I do that and my mileage went down.


By AssBall on 6/2/2011 11:39:17 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think you understand how flat the torque curve is on the Ecoboost. No need to floor it when you get max torque at 2500 rpm. It's not like a Lancer...


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 6/2/2011 11:33:19 AM , Rating: 4
The EcoBoost mileage is better compared to the V8 which is rated at 15/21 and has less power/torque.


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By Samus on 6/2/2011 12:21:52 PM , Rating: 4
It's not all that surprising the V6 take rate is so high. These V6s have more power than all the 5.0 F150s of the 80's and 90's had and what most of the 5.4's had in the past decade.

Direct injection is amazing. Which is why Toyota and GM aren't selling V6s in their mid-sized trucks. Their V6 offerings are weak. Which is too bad, because the Tundra V8 is awful, being plagued with recalls, electronic failures, exhaust manifold cracks and cam reliability problems. What I find most interesting about the Tundra V8 is that is in a North American market exclusive, built here in the land of the V8, and it is still awful. It isn't like Toyota has no experience with V8s either. They cleaned up in F1 back in the day, and even made a pushrod V8 for Nascar in the 90's that was unbeatable for the sole season they competed. I guess that technology never trickled down to the consumer market.


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By YashBudini on 6/2/11, Rating: 0
RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/2/2011 2:49:57 PM , Rating: 2
Sure looks like plastic to me...


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By YashBudini on 6/2/11, Rating: 0
RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By Samus on 6/3/2011 1:25:24 AM , Rating: 2
F1 has used composite intake and EXHAUST manifolds for two decades.

Even the old 80's Mustangs toyed with plastic manifolds. However, they warped over time and occasionally cracked, leading to parts getting sucked into the engine. It wasn't common, but it did happen enough for them to stop producing them.

Of course, we've come a long way in the consumer market since the 80's. Most vehicles now have composite intake manifolds because of its superior weather resistance, wear capacity and thermal properties, and it is cheaper than aluminum. Sometimes it's even dual stage so the internal runners shorten at higher RPM to increase flow (make more power, less torque) and go to long runners at low RPM (more torque, less power) something that simply can't be accomplished with an aluminum design.

It's only a matter of time before many components like suspension are made of composites. Fiberglass is far superior to steel (mostly weight savings, but they never sag and the spring rate will never change over time.) I look forward to a composite cylinder head, though. That'll be the day!


By YashBudini on 6/3/2011 12:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By Manch on 6/2/2011 11:51:40 AM , Rating: 3
Compared to a V8 which it's an alternative to, it does get better mileage albeit by 1mpg. While the base V6 gets 1mpg better its towing capacity is a lot less. Also look at the torque/rpm. It obtains max torque at a lower rev which is great for well...towing. One caveat tho, the superior towing capacity compared to the V8 is only if you have the tow package & 3.73 gears. Otherwise it's the same.

V6 300 hp @ 6500/275 lb-ft tq @ 4500/tows:5800/3.73
5.0 360 hp @ 5500/380 lb-ft tq @ 4250/tows:9800/3.55~3.73
ECOBOOST 365 @ 5000/420 @ 2500/tows:11300(3.73) 9800(3.55)

If you drive it like a truck and not a race car then yeah, you'll get better mileage. It's not like the turbo is always in use. Casual driving it wont be a factor. I test drove one, and I have to say I'm impressed. Being that it's a first year run, personally I'd hold off, but that's because i never by a year 1 car. I wait for the kinks to get worked out(Theres always somthing).I have a turbo'd car and a twinscrew supercharg'd car and as long as I'm not dropping the pedal my mileage stays pretty much stock.

Ford's no stranger to factory SC/turbos. They build them pretty beeefy to ensure longevity is not an issue.

Ford's spec sheet for the engines:
http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/tow...


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By M4gery on 6/2/2011 12:06:26 PM , Rating: 1
I just dont see the point in this if its not more efficient than the V8 when actually doing work. But then, I never really cared much for Fords in the first place.


By bah12 on 6/2/2011 12:19:21 PM , Rating: 3
Then you don't need/use a truck to tow. The torque curve is very similar to a diesel, and that lends itself very well to towing. Just like a PC is not all about the Ghz a truck is not all about the HP. Low end torque is a BIG deal to people that actually tow with it.


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By Manch on 6/2/2011 12:44:30 PM , Rating: 3
Well 420lb/ft @ 2500 vs 380lb/ft @ 4250. That's ~10% more Tq @ 2/3 the rpm. That means pulling the same weight, the ecoboost will be able to get up to speed quicker and easier, so it will burn less gas getting up to speed, so it is more efficient.


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By lagomorpha on 6/2/2011 1:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
You can't really directly calculate fuel economy based on torque curves. If you get more torque at lower rpm but use a turbo you're going to have more fuel/air in each cylinder and have to take that into account. What you want to look for is the "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption" graph and plug in typical driving conditions. Brake specific fuel consumption does usually improve during most driving for engines tuned for lower rpm power but there are more factors involved.


By Manch on 6/3/2011 9:46:47 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not, I was just trying to keep it simple. :D


RE: I'm curious as to the ACTUAL mileage
By shaidorsai on 6/2/2011 12:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
How do you figure 365 hp vs 300 for a 1 mpg reduction isnt an improvement? 365 hp is a big step up for 300...and the torque number is huge too.

All I can say is I wish the 3.7L v6 was available back in 2006 when I bought my F150. The 4.6L V8 makes just over 200HP and only gets around 17 mpg on the highway. The 23 reported here would have made me very happy and is a solid gain in both performance and efficiency.


By Manch on 6/2/2011 12:34:03 PM , Rating: 2
YOu're truck was also tested using the old EPA calculations, so it's mileage is a bit less using the new ones.


mpg
By texbrazos on 6/2/2011 8:02:31 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure what all the buzz is about. I have a 1997 Ford f150 4.6 liter V8 that gets a combined 17.5 mpg. I have read the combined of the
V6 is around 18. After all this time this is the best they can do? Chevy has a hybrid 1500 silverado that gets either 23 or 21 combined with a 6.0 liter v8. Seems like Ford is missing the mark.




RE: mpg
By Manch on 6/3/2011 10:00:34 AM , Rating: 2
and it has a towing cpacity of 6100 vs 11600. That's the point a lot of people are missing here. Yeah you can get a truck with better mileage, but not at that towing capacity.


RE: mpg
By Manch on 6/3/2011 10:00:49 AM , Rating: 2
and it has a towing cpacity of 6100 vs 11600. That's the point a lot of people are missing here. Yeah you can get a truck with better mileage, but not at that towing capacity.

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-hybrid/


RE: mpg
By texbrazos on 6/3/2011 8:53:17 PM , Rating: 2
Big deal 6000 pounds is a lot of towing. I would not knock a 21 to 23 mpg hybrid Chevy 1500 because it tows over 6000 pounds, unless you are going to be using it for towing more than that. Most people will never use that much. Most people get a truck because of the bed and the utility, not towing huge loads.
If you want huge towing power most people.step up to 2500 or 3500 models.
Chevy is on the right track, those electric motors are great and powerful and they don't need to be plugged in. I can't wait to see what they have 5 years from now. Hopefully they will press on quickly.


RE: mpg
By Manch on 6/6/2011 8:56:02 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not knocking the Chevy. It's a great truck if you do not require the towing capacity. If you do, the ecoboost is a viable, and very attractive option, while the Chevy hybrid is not, and that's the point.


By joe.attaboy on 6/2/2011 1:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I don't know if Ford markets the Mustang V6 as an Eco-Boost, but the specs are nearly identical. And, you can't really judge MPG ratings fairly between a sports sedan and a pickup, but I was pretty impressed not only with the power, but the mileage. We averaged 25-27 MPG over a weekend in a brand new Mustang rental (450 miles on the odometer when I picked it up). This includes a 2+ hour period of sitting in massive traffic on New York's infamous Belt Parkway.

I own a 2003 F-150 with a V-6, and I still manage to squeeze 17-19 MPG highway, even with 138,000 miles on the old beast. I'm looking forward to the day I buy a new one, if these V-6 plants are as good in trucks as they are in their cars.




By YashBudini on 6/2/2011 1:54:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We averaged 25-27 MPG over a weekend in a brand new Mustang rental (450 miles on the odometer when I picked it up). This includes a 2+ hour period of sitting in massive traffic on New York's infamous Belt Parkway.

I just rented a Ford Escort for 2 days and averaged 29, no long sitting in traffic. Had I known Budget had Mustangs I would have opted for it. It had 800 miles on it.

The new car smell was too plasticy and the trans was very relunctant to downshift. It did move out well from a standstill and was pretty quiet, a reasonable long distance commuter.


By DanNeely on 6/2/2011 4:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
The couple times I looked, you pay a rather huge price premium for renting a sports car. Not sure if it's due to idiots abusing them and running up the repair bills or a decision to treat them as a cash cow; but the price gap vs a normal car is huge.


By YashBudini on 6/2/2011 5:36:04 PM , Rating: 2
Avis has Mustangs for around $180/day. Camaroes, possible convertibles, were about $50-$60 more per day.


gas prices determine what we buy
By arm-is-coming on 6/3/2011 5:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
Americans think their gas is expensive and are looking at models with better economy, you guys are lucky that your gas is a cheap as it is, not cheap exactly but half what we pay in the UK. When it creeps up to the prices that we pay then your trucks might be a lot rarer on your streets. Enjoy the ability to use them while you can.Hopefully electric vehicles will take over soon and we can all rid ourselves of the dependency on the arab states.




RE: gas prices determine what we buy
By Kurz on 6/4/2011 10:53:35 AM , Rating: 2
Most of your gas cost comes from your own government taxing it. So we are lucky we don't have such an over bearing government when it comes to Gas tax.

http://www.petrolprices.com/fuel-tax.html


We Mercans NEED our big, powerful cars!
By croc on 6/3/2011 10:20:17 PM , Rating: 2
This is really code for 'we 'mercans are too fat to get into a smaller car, we need the larger engine to haul around our fat asses and we are just too lazy to walk'.

Was on holiday once, over there in 'the land of the free'. Somewhere in Ark., I think. Watched as this incredibly obese man, woman and two equally fat kids, clambored into this extended cab ute. The poor ute's suspension must have been bottomed out, as I saw it drop by somewhere in the area of 15 CM... They drove off, and pulled into a drive about half of a block down, where they all disembarked.




By Kurz on 6/4/2011 11:07:24 AM , Rating: 2
Well its their money, Bodies. Why should you care?

I am getting an elantra (Selling old car To Sis) Because I am conscerned about Gas Costs and I dont need such a big vechicle. I am only 135 pounds so an elantra should fit me just fine.


By mindless1 on 6/2/2011 2:38:40 PM , Rating: 2
This was expected, most pickup truck owners aren't Boy-Racers, when a V6 generates as much horsepower (or torque) as older generations of V8 do, they become a viable replacement. Better fuel economy is the icing on the cake, it's just a matter of time passing so the old timers who remember when V6 engines were too weak for the job, but don't bother to get up to speed on modern engine tech, start leaving the perpetual new vehicle buyer pool... older buyers tend to hold on to their vehicles longer and longer.




And What Do You Expect?
By METALMORPHASIS on 6/2/2011 9:34:51 PM , Rating: 2
Certainly, 4 squirrels in a cage isn't going to cut it with a real truck!




Engines
By mercutiouk on 6/3/2011 4:19:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not after starting ANY kind of US/EU flame war here but I don't get something.

We have vehicles that do at least 30mpg (that's considered pretty poor) while having similar performance characteristics as US vehicles.

If gas prices are rising why aren't more of you looking at these? A 2L engine here would be considered about average.




chevy hybrid 1500
By texbrazos on 6/2/2011 9:54:44 PM , Rating: 1
The Chevrolet hybrid 1500 truck gets 23 highway and 21 city. And has a 6.0 liter v8. So big deal ford , go back to the drawing board.




Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/11, Rating: -1
RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By dgingeri on 6/2/11, Rating: -1
RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/11, Rating: 0
By theagentsmith on 6/2/2011 12:00:43 PM , Rating: 1
I agree with Jabber, in Europe and 4-cyl turbodiesel engines are the norm. They comply strict Euro5 emission standards, and can have 170+ hp. However going at 85mph with 55hp means the engine won't be efficient as your pushing to its limit.
I drive a 2.2CRD PT Cruiser which has 121hp and I have no problem merging on motorways and cruising at 80 mph which is the legal street limit in Italy. Most of US States let you go only 65-70 mph, yes with big 8-cyl engines you can do 0-60 in 5 secs but after that?


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By shaidorsai on 6/2/2011 12:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
Because we don't want to. If you were able to afford the registration and fuel for a 400hp V8 Mustang you wouldn't be asking silly questions. The incredibly slow to accelerate 4 cyl diesel is about the worst vehicle to drive possible and only seems "ok" when everyone else is also moving so slowly. America neither wants nor needs slow cars. Im sure there are people that will be on here saying they would love a 4 cyl diesel car regardless of how slow it goes...they also don't get why everyone flips them off when they do 60 in the left lane of the interstate.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 12:24:41 PM , Rating: 1
But they are not slow. You are just following the age of propaganda your car dealers have been spouting for years, like the 3000 mile oil change (research courtesy of Jiffy Lube Inc).

Ever driven in Europe? We dont all crawl around at 20mph or use horse drawn carts.

Really you have nothing to fear, its the future cos gas isnt going to ever go back to $2 a gallon.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By mindless1 on 6/2/2011 2:49:22 PM , Rating: 1
Need it be mentioned that Americans prefer larger vehicles? Pretty simple really, put a bigger engine in a bigger vehicle, though AFAIK, American emissions standards are higher making diesels less powerful too in addition to the disparity between diesel pumps and gas pumps at the filling stations.

As I mentioned in another post, you are pushing your engine harder to drive like that versus a larger more powerful engine. That wear takes its tool over time, not everyone wants to replace their vehicle every 4 years nor have more repairs and creaky rattly looser handling.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Maximalist on 6/2/2011 5:55:40 PM , Rating: 4
FACT: diesel engines have more longevity than comparable petrol engines. Lower RPM, operating temperature, and larger tolerances are some factors. Best marine engines are diesel too. The average marine gasoline engine runs for 1,500 hours before needing a major overhaul. The average marine diesel engine will run for more than 3x that at an average 5,000 hours under the same conditions. Automotive engines' life expectancy is roughly twice as long.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By mindless1 on 6/4/2011 5:11:58 AM , Rating: 2
FACT: The average gasoline engine in a modern car lasts for the life of the vehicle. The car is totaled or suffers some other kind of costly repair that causes it to be junked or parted out before then.

There is an exception, which is if someone buys an undersized engine and then has to continually push it at greater operating stress to get the same job done.

On the other hand, I am not against diesel engines, but I won't own a car with one because in the US I don't want to be restricted to hunting for and using only the one pump at each local gas station. If in the future stations put in triple or more diesel pumps, I'd have no problem with owning a diesel.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Maximalist on 6/7/2011 2:34:04 AM , Rating: 2
It is true that an engine nevermind the type lasts as long as the average vehicle. By your own admission, whether you drive an "underpowered" vehicle or not, the engine longevity is not an issue, nobody on average would need to overhaul their engine every 4 years.

The other point about scarcity of diesel fueling stations is outdated. I recommend going to Shell (just one major diesel retail chain in the U.S.) and "locate" nearby diesel stations within a 5 mile radius from your home or office. I bet you will be surprised to see many more stations than you ever imagined. And it is just from Shell. There are others too. No need to hunt anything unless you drive seriously outside metro areas where I have little experience, but imagine that agri, heating, other uses would actually make diesel fuel more available, not less.

And do not mind a single diesel pump... hardly ever it has a queue in the U.S.


By mindless1 on 6/14/2011 2:03:55 PM , Rating: 2
^ Untrue, these days modernized gas stations have the diesel integrated into one of the pumps that does gas too so you will wait on people getting gas not diesel.

Engine longevity is an issue if it uses an undersized engine.

The point is easy to understand, in America gas vehicles are more convenient unless driving a large truck where you need to go to a truck stop to refuel.

As unbelievable as it seems, LOTS of people care more about other factors than whether a car has a diesel engine and aren't going to be limited in what they can buy just to get one... in fact, almost every product I buy, has efficiency VERY VERY low on the list of important factors.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Dr of crap on 6/2/2011 12:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree with your ability to buy whatever car you want, I've seen plenty of "sport cars" driven so slowly on the entrance ramp, my 2.2 liter 4cyl can beat them onto the freeway.

It's not the car that's slow, it's the driver.
I can't stand people that can't merge onto the freeway properly! That being AT SPEED!

There are plenty of Mustangs being driven way to slowly for their own good.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By mindless1 on 6/2/2011 2:44:55 PM , Rating: 1
It's not a matter of how fast a car "can" accelerate, it's that you're ragging it out if you're always asking high(er) RPMS to get the same job done, as well as more stress on a suspension/etc if the car wasn't built for sustained use at that performance level.

People want a car with RESERVE power, not something that barely gets the job done, though I'm not implying a midsized or smaller vehicle needs in excess of 200HP.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/11, Rating: -1
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 6:19:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
But things will change. As mentioned you'll be largely 4 cylinder bound within 10 years. Enjoy it while you can. The last hurrah.
I, and it seems most Americans, don't have a problem with cylinder count, we just want some power. Non issue with today's 4's. I hate to bring up facts but if you look at actual US cars sales, you'll see that most Americans have been driving 4 cylinder cars for decades now. Americans typically go for lower optioned vehicles and 4 cylinders make up the bulk of those vehicles. Add some power to them like they're doing today and even V6's getting supplanted.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By lagomorpha on 6/2/2011 1:28:45 PM , Rating: 2
Cummins makes a 4 cylinder version of their wonderful B Series turbo-diesels that have found their way into Dodge 2500/3500 trucks. The 4 cylinder version has similar performance characteristics to Mercedes' V6 turbodiesels that are in Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter vans which seem to have no trouble keeping up with traffic.

Should Dodge decide to start selling 1/2 ton trucks with a 4 cylinder Cummins B series turbodiesel from the factory I predict you'll see more excitement than complaints.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 3:23:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Should Dodge decide to start selling 1/2 ton trucks with a 4 cylinder Cummins B series turbodiesel from the factory I predict you'll see more excitement than complaints.
NOPE!! The manufacturers already have diesels engines ready for 1/2 tons and exactly NONE of them are 4 cylinders. The market crash shelved the engines but they're ready to go. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE would buy a 4 cyl diesel in a 1/2 ton truck in the US. Do I really need to explain why?


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By YashBudini on 6/2/2011 7:25:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
NO ONE and I mean NO ONE would buy a 4 cyl diesel in a 1/2 ton truck in the US. Do I really need to explain why?

Yes, that's just the way it is, but also, seems like a good reason to have such a vehicle reviewed in some magazines, no?


By lagomorpha on 6/4/2011 12:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
It should probably be noted that the 4 cylinder Cummins 4BT is a 4 liter 4 cylinder turbo-diesel with 355 ft-lbs of torque and there are already people using it to replace gasoline engines in trucks in order to improve fuel economy.

There's nothing stopping a 4 cylinder diesel from producing enough torque to pull a large truck - just look at some Caterpillar has made. Other than the vehicle sounding like a tractor that is.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Reclaimer77 on 6/2/2011 12:32:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ugh here we go again. "Why can't you American's be just like us Europeans"

Do we have to go through this EVERY time a car article is posted?


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 12:37:17 PM , Rating: 1
Well no not really its just we find it hard to work out why we can get on with our work/lives with car engine power levels half the size of yours yet you seem to state catagorically its impossible for you to do the same.

But we never get a decent answer other than -

"I need to tow stuff!" Well so do we.

"I need to join the Freeway at light speed!" We manage too.

The main reason seems to be "Because we can!" Well thats fine but then why do so many moan when gas prices go up? Surely you should just keep quiet and suck it up.


By Reclaimer77 on 6/2/2011 2:03:09 PM , Rating: 2
Because we have a CHOICE. If people want low power, fine, they can buy that. They're available. If they don't, high powered cars are available. What's so wrong about that?

Just leave it alone, ok? We don't all need to be the same. Americans don't get on here and tell Europeans how to live. I get so sick of this conformist attitude coming from your side of the pond EVERY TIME a car article goes up. If you're happy with an insane VAT tax on everything, crazy high gas prices, and super expensive cars well that's great.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By weskurtz0081 on 6/2/2011 2:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
Just curious, but in the case of our ranch, we need trucks that can tow around 40 foot trailers, 20,000-30,000lbs (9-13K kilos), that can carry 4000K-7000K lbs (1800-3000 kilos) in the bed of the truck.

Are the vans you are talking about, and the trucks you are talking about, carrying those kinds of loads?


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 3:34:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Are the vans you are talking about, and the trucks you are talking about, carrying those kinds of loads?
No they're not. At least not like we do. Culture is different there. Europeans aren't "working class" people like we are. Example: most of the European horse owners I've met are rich whereas most of the US horse owners I know are just regular working stiffs. You don't see Europeans hauling 4x8's from the local Home Depot or Lowes (do they even have stores like that?). Most wouldn't be caught dead in a pickup where we see it as a badge of honor (explained to me by a Brit). They do indeed have larger vehicles for heavy tows but most aren't privately owned and they're not multi-purpose like our pickups. The reason why they don't understand why we do what we do is because they don't do what we do.

PS - If you guys don't understand, just ask, we'll be happy to explain it. Leave the finger pointing bashing somewhere else.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/11, Rating: 0
RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 5:48:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No we use whats called an articulated lorry.
Didn't I say you use heavier vehicles for heavier tows? What are you saying no to?


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 5:56:35 PM , Rating: 1
I was just saying we use whats we call a lorry. After all why own a large inefficient truck for the two days a year you might need it when as you point out, you can have someone else do it.

I love the Bruce Springsteen "every american is a hard working blue collar good guy" type scenario you are spinning there. Brought a tear to my eye, kinda.


By Spuke on 6/2/2011 6:21:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I was just saying we use whats we call a lorry. After all why own a large inefficient truck for the two days a year you might need it when as you point out, you can have someone else do it.
Ah, I see now. You're just an a$$hole. You REALLY don't care to understand the differences, you just simply want to bash and argue. Not a problem, I'll move on.


By AssBall on 6/2/2011 6:30:18 PM , Rating: 3
What the hell are you talking about? Why own snowmobiles, dirtbikes, four wheelers, camper trailers, firewood, hay bales, acetylene tanks, plows, water tanks, power tools? Why live off of any kind of pavement?

You clearly don't know jack sh!t about the United States.

quote:
have someone else do it


So well said. Spoken like a true European socialist leech. We like to do it by ourselves when we can over here.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By millerm277 on 6/2/2011 4:29:04 PM , Rating: 2
Here's a simple answer. The entire EU is about half the land area of the US. We drive a lot farther than you, a lot more often. What works for 50mi, often doesn't work for 500mi.

My drive to work includes a road with a long 18% grade, we get 160in of snow a winter (and yes, I regularly am driving in 1ft of snow, often for hours to ski).

I have no idea how you get 4x8' sheets of plywood home, how you move furniture or any other large objects.

What you also need to remember is that part of the need for power in the US is because we have stricter safety standards, causing an equivilant car to weigh much more than a Euro-spec one would. Also requiring more power.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 4:36:17 PM , Rating: 1
How many people drive 500 miles a day? And for a daily commute? Most probably 20 miles or so. Again you dont need a V8 for that.

We also have mountains, hill passes, fords and roads that are 2000 years old. Its not flat in Europe either and the terrain is pretty diverse.

As for getting sheets of plywood, we dont often need them as our houses are not made from plywood. Brick rules here.

If we did need plywood we call the building supplies place in town and they deliver it in a transit van quite easily. Larger stuff delivered on a flatbed truck with a crane.

Moving house is done by removal firms with custom built removal vans or like I did last time I rented a transit van for the day. All pretty easy.

as for safety, yet again we dont drive around in matchboxes either.

Again excuses that dont really add up.


By Spuke on 6/2/2011 5:51:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As for getting sheets of plywood, we dont often need them as our houses are not made from plywood. Brick rules here.
Neither are ours. We also use brick, ever seen the homes on the east coast of the US? Plywood is used for whatever. That isn't the point. And your post proves what I said clearly. Europeans don't do what we do, hence the misunderstandings.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 5:56:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If we did need plywood we call the building supplies place in town and they deliver it in a transit van quite easily. Larger stuff delivered on a flatbed truck with a crane. Moving house is done by removal firms with custom built removal vans or like I did last time I rented a transit van for the day. All pretty easy. as for safety, yet again we dont drive around in matchboxes either. Again excuses that dont really add up.
Bam!! You hit the nail on the head!! WE don't do that as a matter of course, WE fix our own sh!t as a matter of course. Does everyone do that? NOPE! But enough do to have to nationwide chains of home improvement stores packed full of people daily. There are no excuses!!!! We are just different.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 6:04:15 PM , Rating: 2
The point is that in virtually equal levels of society and technology we can show that a large proportion of the population doesnt need to own large inefficient trucks.

If things get more expensive gas wise in the US then thats how it will change for you too. You'll get someone else to deliver the bricks while your Prius or whatever never has to leave the drivway.

Its not as impossible as you make out thats all. you are not that different in needs at all to over the pond. Its just that you do it a different way that going forward might not be sustainable in a few ways.

Believe me I wish it could carry on the way it is for decades and decades as differences are what makes the world a fun place but its all going to boil down to a common denominator world wide at some point. shame but there you go.


By Spuke on 6/2/2011 6:23:35 PM , Rating: 3
You really don't want to know, you just want to bash. No problem.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Reclaimer77 on 6/2/2011 10:31:23 PM , Rating: 2
Jabbber you are giving Euro's a bad name, on their behalf I behoove you to actually READ what people are typing to you instead of just bash after same bash.

It's amazing how Europeans claim to be such diverse and tolerant people, and that we are the bigots, yet you can't seem to accept our way of life.


By jabber on 6/3/2011 7:01:06 AM , Rating: 2
Guys I apologise.

All I was trying to get to the bottom of was this -

Group A does things one way.
Group B does things one way.
Group A asks why Group B maybe couldnt do it their way?
Group B says it's impossible and very defensive.
Group A asks why it's impossible and gets shouted at.

At the end of the day I dont see how smaller and more econimical engine sizes for a greater number of vehicles should stop anyone in the US lugging plywood around.

I was accusued of ignorance, fair enough but it does appear thats an issue on both sides. I have been to the US and Canada many times so I've seen what its like. I've even lived with Americans, yes I went that far in my research.

However, I do feel that some over the pond have this vision of Europe like its still 1923, in black and white and we all hang around in Soviet style bread queues.

Trust me, me can lug plywood, boats and trailers with the best of them when we have to.

I guess vive le difference.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Spuke on 6/2/2011 5:59:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
as for safety, yet again we dont drive around in matchboxes either.
Might as well address this one too. NONE of your cars meet our safety standards. The only one's that do were designed to meet them (and are sold here).


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By StanO360 on 6/2/2011 8:01:48 PM , Rating: 2
They are trained like monkeys in school and in their media (with the cooperation of our media) that all Americans are dupes, lumbering idiots. No amount of explanation will help him get out of his cultural presuppositions.


By YashBudini on 6/2/2011 8:57:46 PM , Rating: 2
Not to worry we have plenty of counterparts:

quote:
They are trained like monkeys in school and in their media (with the cooperation of our media) that all Europeans are socialist dupes, laid-back idiots. No amount of explanation will help him get out of his cultural presuppositions.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By dgingeri on 6/2/2011 1:26:08 PM , Rating: 2
Here's what I've seen:

Just last week, I'm cruising home on I-25 northbound at 55 in a 65 zone (due to rush hour traffic) and a little Honda merges onto the highway doing <40. He just moves over as if everyone is just supposed to let him in. About two dozen cars in both right lanes have to brake to avoid hitting him, and 5 cars about 8 cars behind this guy crash into each other in the right lane because they never see it coming. Even when they don't cause accidents, they cause major backups because tons of people have to slow down for each one of them moving in.

idiots like this are everywhere. they don't get hit directly and think they're driving safe because they're slow, but in reality they're creating situations where bunches of other people get hurt because of them. (I've been hit from behind 5 times because someone merged onto a highway in front of me going far too slow. It's cost me 3 cars and $13,000 in medical expenses out of my pocket.)

The worse part is that these little cars, even floored, can't get up to highway speeds by the end of many highway on ramps. They're running 60-80hp motors in a 4000lb car and can't get up to speed. These vehicles should be banned from US roads. if they aren't capable of getting up to speed before merging, they are a danger to everyone on the road.


By lagomorpha on 6/2/2011 1:34:00 PM , Rating: 2
1) This isn't a problem with slow cars, it's a problem with slow drivers. I've seen plenty of V8 Cadillacs and Mercedes pull onto the highway at 40mph. The real problem is letting senile people drive.

2) You won't find 60-80hp cars on US roads weighing 4000 lbs. The least powerful thing you'll likely find is a CRX HF from the 80s and those only weighed around 1800 lbs. There is a legal minimum power/weight ratio for US roads but the only vehicles that even approach it are fully loaded semi-trucks and they seem to manage somehow. If you want to complain about things that cause trouble merging, complain about truckers.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By jabber on 6/2/2011 1:43:43 PM , Rating: 2
1. You need to look whats going on and anticipate traffic better. Again a driving issue not a power issue.

2. Folks joining too slow. Again a driving skills and awareness issue not power.

3. 4000lb car in a Hyundai or Civic type? Even a Dodge Charger weighs in under 4000lbs.


By Dr of crap on 6/3/2011 8:45:55 AM , Rating: 2
The two posters ahead have hit it on the head.
WE DO NOT teach drivers well.

Merging skills, and the ability to manage your car is missing from a vast majority of drivers!

It's not the Honda's on the road that can't get up to speed, ITS THE DRIVERS! I seen plenty of large cars and trucks that merge onto the freeway, and the way is clear, that take twice as long as they should. Don't go off on the small car as the reason for bad merging.

It drivers skill!


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By 85 on 6/2/2011 11:58:54 AM , Rating: 2
I'm an American & I live in the UK. I drive a 970cc 41HP Vauxhall Rascal. It has a load capacity of a 1/2 ton, and I just took the motorway home at ~80mph. I don't think having a 2.2L TD isn't going to change much as far as traffic goes.


By jabber on 6/2/2011 12:07:30 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe whats more of a problem isnt the engines/power but the rather slack automatic transmissions bolted onto them.

The 3.5L 250HP Dodge Charger I had for two weeks last month would only really get its groove on if you slammed the gas pedal to the floor. If you played lightly/normally with the pedal like you would with a 5 speed manual it just wallowed around all over the place.

Still enjoyed the car though.


By shaidorsai on 6/2/2011 12:22:35 PM , Rating: 1
"I'm an American & I live in the UK. I drive a 970cc 41HP Vauxhall Rascal"

Sorry to hear that bud. Do us all a favor and leave that piece of crap there when you come home.


By YashBudini on 6/2/2011 1:30:55 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There are so many "econo" cars out there that lack the ability to get up to highway speed by the end of the entrance ramp it's causing massive traffic jams all over the US.

Uh, you don't think not knowing how to merge has anything to do with it? Lots of people come around the curve to the acceleration ramp and haven't even started looking back yet.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By VahnTitrio on 6/2/2011 12:37:08 PM , Rating: 2
At times it hard to explain to people outside the US (or people outside the Midwest at times) how necessary something large that can move a lot of stuff is. Towing is a necessity around here. There is no way any 4 cylinder engine will ever be used to tow my boat. I don't need a V8 to pull it (a V6 works just fine, although with the V8 on my brothers truck it definitely is much easier).


By acsa77 on 6/2/2011 2:05:13 PM , Rating: 2
If you need more towing capacity, there are also 2.4-2.5 diesel engines + capable transmissions for this. Not much more expensive than the 2.0-2.2 engines. And for really heavy duty you have still 3.0 diesels which decapitate you when flooring. With an average mileage of 27.

And about acceleration: even the most choked recent 2.0 diesels can easily keep up on highway - they are tuned for this, they have sophisticated charging and injection.


RE: Give rising prices another 5 years...
By Maximalist on 6/2/2011 6:14:30 PM , Rating: 1
In most EU countries, the cost of petrol is affected by unfavorable taxation. In May 2011, for example, in Germany, average gasoline price was $8.845 per gallon (€1.61 per litre). This is a big, but not the only incentive for compact engines. In EU the average price of diesel is less than that of gasoline. Diesel engines furthermore are about 25 percent more efficient than gasoline engines. Therefore, you end up saving about 30~40 percent on your fuel costs if you drive a diesel rather than a gasoline-powered vehicle.


By darcotech on 6/7/2011 8:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
I think that we are not talking about same things here as far as this discussion is about differences between EU and USA.
- I have impression that people that defend V&s &V8s in today’s cars are the ones that truly need their great power very often or every day. The fact is that majority of the owner of big pickups with big (and thirsty) engines don't need them that way. Yet, they claim they do. One thing is question of freedom; one thing is an open discussion.
- Saying that small cars are getting to slow in highway is simply ignoring the facts or not knowing them at all. Having experience with many different class fo cars, I can tell you that all but 1Liter engine just do fine when joining the highway traffic. It is usually drivers that don’t push hard enough.
- Saying that 2.0lit diesel on average car is not enough is also same thing. My personal car has 150HP, on 120km/h (~75MPH) it is running on 2’500 RPMs, and if I need to push there is enough reserve. I get somewhere 7lit/100km (its 4x4 BMW SUV) which is 33.6MPG and that is not the best there is. I see many people towing their horses and similar with this kind of car / engine.
So, saying it is not enough for MAJORITY of people (even in USA) is simply not true. As I said before, this has nothing to do with your freedom of choice. But, at least, understand, that your behavior makes petrol costs more, which translates in products costs more. Not to mention that it could make countries go in war to secure petrol sources for them.
So yes, you have right to choose whatever you do. No, petrol V6 and V8 are simply not for majority and yes you can make EVERYTHING with smaller diesel engines with better MPG.
And no, I do not hate US cars, actually I simply love the new Dodge Durango, but even with 3.6 engines it is still using too much petrol. A 2.0 or 3.0l diesel could do wonders with that car. And Dodge could have my money.

PS: I was/am owner of both European and US cars.


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