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IOS popularity slips in Singapore and Hong Kong

Many have criticized Apple for the iPhone 5 claiming that the device wasn't sufficiently different from previous generations. The latest version of iPhone did have a slightly larger screen and support LTE technology, but had nothing to really set itself apart from Android devices that had been on the market for well over a year or previous iterations of the iPhone.

Apple is now starting to feel the heat in Asia as more and more consumers in Singapore and Hong Kong are moving away from the iPhone to competing devices. Reuters reports that a combination of iPhone fatigue and a desire to be different are driving some consumers to alternative devices. Rumors also attribute a huge variety of competing devices as another reason why consumers in Asia are moving away from the iPhone.

In 2010, more devices in Singapore ran iOS per capita than any other city in the world. Recently, StatCounter calculated that Apple's share of the mobile device market in Singapore including the iPhone and iPad have declined sharply in the last year. In 2012, Apple's share of the market in Singapore peaked at 72% in January.

This month, Apple's share of the mobile device market in Singapore had fallen to 50% with Android devices now accounting for 43% of the market. This time last year, Android devices were 20% of the market in Singapore.

According to Reuters, much of Asia typically follows the lead of Hong Kong and Singapore. Apple iOS devices and Hong Kong now account for 30% of the total device market, down from 45% a year ago while Android accounts for almost two-thirds of the market.

Source: Reuters


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to be expected
By GulWestfale on 1/28/2013 9:54:31 AM , Rating: 5
3 years ago apple, was king, but since then android phones have moved to larger, higher resolution screens, more powerful processors, a better OS, achieved near parity in terms of the number of quality apps, and yet have kept a lower price.




RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 10:05:38 AM , Rating: 5
Yup... Apple had a home-run in 2007, and through 2011 they kind of had the best thing going. That is a long run and the profits were well earned. Now the competition has passed them by with superior phones, screens and OS and a plethora of better features. Apple needs to go back to the drawing boards and bring their crayons and come out with better products with better features before they lose more ground. There is plenty, plenty time, but they need to start, because product development doesn't happen overnight.


RE: to be expected
By degobah77 on 1/28/2013 10:18:04 AM , Rating: 3
Apple will remain a niche product company after the rest of the world moves on. Brand loyalists should be happy with that on both sides.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 11:01:53 AM , Rating: 2
niche? i mean, its not a coconut that lets you make calls!!


RE: to be expected
By degobah77 on 1/28/2013 11:37:56 AM , Rating: 2
Mine as well be. There's only one iPhone. I think a lot of people will forget about the whole iDevice thing. It was already getting old and now it's just annoying.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 11:44:57 AM , Rating: 1
how is it annoying? Because you dont like apple? its a modern phone whether it appeals to you or not.

annoying would be...you make a call, and when it connects...a cinder block falls on your foot.


RE: to be expected
By degobah77 on 1/28/2013 11:48:32 AM , Rating: 5
I'll take the coconut instead.


RE: to be expected
By althaz on 1/28/2013 3:08:22 PM , Rating: 4
The thing is, it's NOT a modern phone. Android has been continually updated and improved, to the point it is no longer recognizable (this is good, it was crap).

Apple have updated the hardware (and done a good job with that for the most part), but the software is horribly outdated.

Android has taken queues from things like the Palm Pre and Windows Phone 7/8 and improved their user experience, Apple has not changed their OS with the times. It's old-fashioned, outdated and less user-friendly than the competition.

Hopefully that changes in the near future.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 3:14:02 PM , Rating: 2
", Apple has not changed their OS with the times. It's old-fashioned, outdated and less user-friendly than the competition."

Bingo... And the few things that they did improve on were copied from Android, like notifications. What really makes me laugh is the press announcement of the iPhone 5. "with this larger screen we now have an additional new row of icons "[the crowds gasps] Wow. 4x6 icons. What an amazing development that IS thinking different. ;)


RE: to be expected
By ZmaxDP on 1/28/2013 7:15:55 PM , Rating: 1
Just FYI...

You meant: "Android has taken cues from things..." A queue is a line, and no one likes lines...

http://grammarist.com/usage/cue-queue/

Adios...


RE: to be expected
By ShaolinSoccer on 1/29/2013 11:48:01 AM , Rating: 2
Apple likes lines.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 8:30:33 PM , Rating: 2
UI having less customization cant be enough to not call it a modern phone. LTE, dual cameras, voice stuff, gps, email...i mean that is what makes a modern phone more than UI...no?


RE: to be expected
By Targon on 1/29/2013 12:08:50 PM , Rating: 2
No. A modern device is not one that just has new and competitive hardware, it is also easier to use with new features. Palm died because webOS came too late to save the company, and there was not enough money left to properly advertise and improve build quality in time to avoid death. RIM has suffered due to a similar problem, and it will take a couple of years to see if BB 10 will be enough to save it.

User Interface is something that MUST evolve over time. Being stagnant is what kills a company, since the competition will continue to push to improve. The days when a screen full of icons was acceptable as a user interface SHOULD be long gone.

Android is continuing to evolve, and has become easier to use. Windows on phones is evolving, and while many may not care for it, they also can't claim it is not at least innovative. MacOS on the desktop and laptops has been at updated versions of 10 since 2001, and has not really changed all that much, except for some additions. iOS hasn't really changed all that much since the original, except for adding some features. Windows on the desktop and phones has changed quite a bit with version 8, in the attempt to break the pattern of stagnant design.

Siri with the iPhone 4S was the last time on iOS that there was a new feature with any "wow" factor to it. A 4 inch 9:16 ratio phone isn't being innovative. Newer faster processors are a given, not really being innovative, except in terms of HOW to get better performance out of a processor, but newer/faster, or higher resolutions, or larger by themselves is not being innovative.

If you put Windows 98 on a new computer(with drivers), it would still be an old OS design, even on new hardware. We feel this way because there HAVE been significant improvements since then.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/30/2013 11:01:50 AM , Rating: 2
agree to disagree i guess. Google play store isnt evolving in not being left out due to apple exclusive titles with that argument.


RE: to be expected
By RjBass on 1/28/2013 6:01:58 PM , Rating: 2
I'm no fan of iDevices, but that comment deserves a 6.


RE: to be expected
By tamalero on 1/28/2013 11:57:18 AM , Rating: 1
its not only about that.. its also caused by MARKET SATURATION.
when everyone who wants to be cool, already has the cool phone.. it ceases to be cool.

in Syndrome's words.. "Everyone can be super, and when everyone is super... noone will be"


RE: to be expected
By Sazabi19 on 1/28/2013 12:25:34 PM , Rating: 2
Incredibles reference, I like it. Almost surprised Pixar wasn't sued for the big "i" on their uniforms yet.


RE: to be expected
By pw38 on 1/28/2013 2:00:08 PM , Rating: 2
Steve Jobs was their majority share holder before they were purchased by Disney, which made him the largest shareholder in Disney. I doubt the issue ever arose.


RE: to be expected
By chµck on 1/28/2013 2:39:20 PM , Rating: 1
Read: Yup, Apple was great until Steve Jobs died and suddenly no one in upper management at Apple had any standards.


RE: to be expected
By Trisped on 1/28/2013 6:34:41 PM , Rating: 2
Apple has been going this way for a while.

They sit on an ever increasing pile of cash, yet do not reduce the cost of their phones or invest in new features (like WPS support for WiFi connections).

It seems like every time Apple is in the news I am reminded of the last time Jobs left Apple. Hopefully Cook can get a plan, because he obviously cannot ride Jobs coat tails for much longer.


RE: to be expected
By Trisped on 1/28/2013 6:41:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
... or invest in new features (like WPS support for WiFi connections).
Should be ... or invest in additional new features (like WPS support for WiFi connections).
Apple invests in some new features, but they are fairly limited compared to features added to other smart phone devices.


RE: to be expected
By Nortel on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 10:30:20 AM , Rating: 3
You are right to an extent, but Apple is falling behind in the features category as well as the "cool new phone" factor. If they dont come out with something compelling, that gap will get bigger and bigger. With that said, they may already have a home-run product in the pipeline. We have to see what they release.


RE: to be expected
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 1/28/2013 10:29:40 AM , Rating: 2
The first thing they need to do is overhaul the iOS UI. This isn't 2007 anymore.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 10:37:52 AM , Rating: 2
Totally agreed. The UI bores me to death. I would also get rid of the enormous bezel, or make good use of it like add SD card support. Add a large screen model too. Apple would totally clean up if they had a large screen model available.


RE: to be expected
By Nortel on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 10:48:28 AM , Rating: 2
The market is growing faster than iPhone sales. People are starting to see that Apple's products arent up to par with the competition. The more high end Androids are out there, the more people compare with their freinds and iPhone users say "mine cant do that"... The more sales they lose. Apple isnt in any financial trouble, but the tide is turning. Apple has time to react, but do far they arent.


RE: to be expected
By Nortel on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 11:26:59 AM , Rating: 2
OK, you dont want top see it, so good luck with that.

Lets watch over the next few years. Here is what will happen. Either Apple will come out with a great new product or a significant upgrade to the iPhone line (as in the largest since its initial release in 2007) or sales will erode. If they keep regurgitating the same product they have since 2007, sales will slip. 2007 to 2011 they were the best thing out there. Today they simply arent.


RE: to be expected
By Mint on 1/28/2013 1:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
It's going to be interesting to see if/how Apple gets out of the corner it arrogantly painted itself into.

Apple mocked Samsung's (and eventually everyone's) large screens, and eventually relented with the 4" iPhone5, but still continues to mock larger sizes. I don't see the iPhone Max/Math, if the rumor is true, doing anything but validating Samsung.

They mocked the stylus, but people are giving very positive feedback in Surface Pro previews and the Galaxy Note I/II is a hit, and remains the tool of choice for graphic artists (a key demographic for Apple's image). Styli have been with us for thousands of years, and are here to stay.

They mocked MS's tablet/notebook OS unification, but that's eventually going to be a must-have for high end tablets, especially in business.

I think you're right in that they have to create a completely new product, because in existing markets they'll have to follow rather than innovate, and that's not what their brand premium is based on. Props to Apple for their vision with the iPhone/iPad, and they'll get $200B from those cash cows by the time they loose their luster, but it's going to be tough repeating that.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 2:47:25 PM , Rating: 2
"I think you're right in that they have to create a completely new product, because in existing markets they'll have to follow rather than innovate, and that's not what their brand premium is based on. "

Yup... They either need to create a new product or dramatically modify the existing ones. They cant just keep re-releasing the iPhone with another tiny improvement and continue the sales. It worked for 5 years, but now they have been surpassed by all of their competitors. This time they added a larger screen (still too small) and 4G, that everyone else had 2 years earlier... So the only real improvement was the CPU/GPU. It's fast, but a fast GPU doesn't matter in anything but games. Comparing it to today's 5 inch 1080p Android superphones just isn't a match. What will we have next year? A whole buttload of even better Android's and an iPhone 6 that is still 4 inches, low res, low DPI, no SD card, no NFC, giant bezel, No widgets, live wallpaper, and a whole slew of other missing features, plus STILL using that same tired old UI from 2007. They have to do something.


RE: to be expected
By Tony Swash on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 3:41:58 PM , Rating: 3
"it is really entertaining watching all you desperate Fandroids and Apple haters reinforcing each others 'Apple is in trouble' fantasy"

No one is saying they are in trouble, We are saying that thier products are no longer better than the competition and that they have to do something about that at some point or sales will start to suffer. There is a big difference in those two things. Its not black and white, boom or bust, its in the middle somewhere. The wow factor is gone for Apple and people are starting to catch on to that. It's not that they are in financial trouble, not time to worry. It IS time to go back to innovation though. For all I know Apple has another homerun in the pipeline. If they do, good. If they don't, they will decline. Not die, just decline.

"higher customer satisfaction and loyalty ratings"

Sorry, the quality myth is over with as well.

http://www.businessinsider.com/consumer-reports-ip...


RE: to be expected
By Any14Tee on 1/29/2013 7:16:55 PM , Rating: 1
Doh, if Apple were a doughnut I'll dip it in my tea, Marge......


RE: to be expected
By CaedenV on 2/11/2013 1:19:56 PM , Rating: 1
WP consistently has a higher satisfaction rating than the iPhone, and when you filter out entry and mid-level Android products then Android beats out the iPhone as well.

Nobody is saying that the iPhone is not popular. Nobody is saying that it is a heap of junk. It is an OK product still. The problem is that Apple is loosing market share, and they are not keeping up with the new technologies and ways of doing things. The iPhone is supposed to be a premium device... yet the camera has issues (and was never great to begin with), and the housing is easily damaged, and it still lacks NFC or wireless charging, even at simply making phone calls it simply does not get as good of reception as others, and the retina display is hardly the crown leader of displays anymore.
When it all boils down the iPhone has slipped from a high end device to a mediocre device that is trying to be a high end device, and there is only so long that it can do that before people abandon ship.

Also, this is not limited to their phones. Their new desktop lines are also lagging behind on features, and the iPad itself is quickly being outpaced by Android and Windows products. It is the whole Apple lineup that is suffering from a lack of innovation, not just the iPhone.

Again, it is not that Apple makes bad products, it is that they are no longer leading, and people are starting to wake up to it. I think they still have another year or two to ride on their name recognition, but if they do not get their act together then they will be the next Sony; A big company that makes OK products that cost way too much, that simply burns up cash because they keep trying and failing to execute on a closed platform design, but because they have so much cash to burn they will be around for a very very long time.


RE: to be expected
By menting on 1/28/2013 12:37:50 PM , Rating: 2
"The market is growing faster than Apple can produce devices"
that's just totally wrong, because that means the only reason people choose a non Apple phone is because the iPhone is out of stock or on backorder.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 12:41:30 PM , Rating: 2
RIM said the same things in 2011. =) Palm the same in 2006

Sales are strong now. We just had a great quarter... Lets rest on our Laurels. Our customers will always come back.

Good luck with that.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 5:48:34 PM , Rating: 1
That exploding marketshare is in low end devices being sold to developing countries. The majority of mobile internet traffic, app revenue, and Google's own profits from mobile still come from iOS, aka high end devices that are actually used. It isn't because high-end Android devices make up the bulk of its sales, it doesn't.

Willfully ignoring the fact that the much larger Android marketshare is highly inflated by low end devices that don't really get used for the internet or apps is strange. Its like bragging about Windows marketshare because they ship on tens of millions of netbooks that are barely capable of being used for Facebook or basic word processing. I love the high end PCs I build but I don't kid myself that what I have is only a percent of a percent of total Windows machines.

Who cares about marketshare (fanboy pissing contest) or the low end?


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 3:13:10 PM , Rating: 3
I was using my friends iPad the other day, just toying around with it, when he starts screaming "NO!". Apparently he was doing a bunch of app updates or something and if you attempt to do ANYTHING on the iPad while this is taking place, the updates just cancel out. Wtf?

Seriously...it's 2013 Apple. I was just absolutely dumfounded. That kind of behavior at the OS level is completely unacceptable! What's the point of having the "best hardware in the world" if the OS is programmed with THAT level of stupidity. For fuks sake Apple, even Windows Phone as pedestrian and stripped down as it is, multitasks better than that.

In Apple's quest to treat it's customer base like idiots, they've "simplified" iOS down to the point that it's less easy and simple than the competition. For example, have you ever tried to download an MP3 from a website and make it your custom ringtone in iOS? It takes me five seconds on Android. It's an absolute nightmare on iOS. iTunes? Really? For a freaking ringtone!

At this point if someone actually thinks iOS is getting it done, they're an ignorant Luddite.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 3:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
"At this point if someone actually thinks iOS is getting it done, they're an ignorant Luddite."

You've met up with Takinyourpoints right? LOL.

I agree though. Hell ,at this point even Tony doesn't debate on that losing issue. He avoids specs and features like the plague.


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 4:13:59 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You've met up with Takinyourpoints right? LOL.


Sadly yes. I've had more engaging conversations with a clay brick than that sonofabitch. Then again it's hard to have a serious conversation with someone with their penis in one hand and a copy of "Day Trading for Dummies" in the other.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 4:23:05 PM , Rating: 2
Come on, give him a break, he builds his own pcs, he is an expert on everything and anything!

/s off


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By Skywalker123 on 1/31/2013 4:14:42 PM , Rating: 1
Anyone who calls someone else an "inbred hillbilly" is a complete moron.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 6:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
I do like the live tiles, but I also like to be able to see more icons and my background. Will have to wait to try WP8 to decide. Right now I have my Nova Launcher with 7 items on the dock and the icon rows are 8x6. I have the 2 bottom rows filled with apps I launch for a total of 19 (6+6+7) things and my whole homescreen is free except for my mail widget on the top. This shows me the latest emails I got and I can respond right there without leaving my homescreen. Cant do that without widgets. Weather/clock widgets and contact widgets are also highly useful to me. It's customizeable info that anyone can use and use how they need to use it. Not how MS thinks they need to use it, and not like Apple where you cant use it at all. Your problem is your mind is closed off and you are stuck on your old UI. You have no clue how behind it is.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 3:37:18 AM , Rating: 2
I'm more than familiar with all the UIs, why else would I bring Windows Phone 8 into the conversation? You're trying to talk about "superior" UIs and aren't even bringing an actual really good one like WP8 into the discussion, its really strange.

As I always say, every platform has tradeoffs. You trade off having better hardware, stability, battery life, support, and applications in exchange for giant screens, SD card slots, and widgets. You like widgets and that's totally cool, but don't talk like they automatically trump the positives of other platforms. Jelly Bean doesn't even represent the pinnacle of mobile UIs and it comes with a host of other problems (lots of bad hardware even in the high end, still lags iOS and WP8 in polish and stability, poor long term support, malware, inferior apps, etc), so I don't see why anyone would say that.

Again, you've accepted those tradeoffs and they're good for you, that's totally cool. I get why people pick Android or iOS or WP8 or whatever. I don't get why some people completely and arrogantly write off other platforms for the silliest reasons.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 4:06:24 AM , Rating: 3
Speaking of Windows Phone 8, from the Anandtech review of the new HTC Windows Phone 8X:

quote:
What about Android? Android's main problem and uphill battle has been and continues to be fragmentation. With few exceptions, most of the vendors who add their own UI over the existing Android UI only wind up mucking up something that was mostly fine in the first place. Samsung, HTC, and LG aren't software companies, but they try to act like it. I'm also not personally fond of even the stock interface of Android, which is a bit too busy for my taste.


Oh my, such negative bias, he's obviously a fanboy, only an idiot wouldn't like Jelly Bean!

Quick better email the author how misguided he is because he dislikes something you like.


RE: to be expected
By Targon on 1/29/2013 12:14:34 PM , Rating: 1
Android has widgets, that can provide the same sort of thing that live tiles has. But, you miss the fact that Android 4.0 was a huge improvement over Android 3.2, which was a big improvement over 2.x. Android has made a lot of progress over the past few years, and the improvements made by Samsung, HTC, and Motorola with custom "skins" really do make different manufacturers devices different.

As far as Windows goes, Microsoft changed things with Windows 8 for that very reason, to evolve and get out away from stagnant designs.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 6:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
"its cute that "flashy UI" is the one big thing you hang onto"

As usual, you are either clueless or being obstinate on purpose. That is 1 of over 20 items on that list.

Hey if you like IOS's launcher/homescreen over Android then by all means, but dont pretend it isnt stagnating and badly in need of an overhaul. It's not like something I made up here. It's a pretty common complaint that I agree with, not one I came up with.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 6:39:00 PM , Rating: 1
It isn't a dealbreaker for me, same with the Windows UI up until Windows 8 being fundamentally the same. The tradeoff is better apps, better stability, better support, better browse time battery life, and faster hardware. If you value other things more than there are lots of other products out there, no big deal.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 6:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I know... none of the HUGE list of things the iPhone is missing is a "Dealbreaker" for you. Like I have said before, the things the iPhone does, it does well, but to me, the huge list of missing features is unacceptable for a high end phone. It's basically a budget phone with a high end SOC sold as a high end phone.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 8:11:48 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, a budget phone that aside from having the fastest hardware and the best apps also has one of the highest quality displays on the market, of course. The only display that's in the same league is the Droid DNA. Other than that, not everyone wants a giant phone.

Huge phone isn't a feature for everyone, stop being so narrow minded. Do you complain about how the Amazon Kindle lost removable batteries or the SD card slot in order to further reduce size, or that the Nexus 4 never had them in the first place because its so small?

These are engineering decisions. Its easy to fit removable components in even a giveaway featurephone or dumbphone. They aren't high end features, they are features that are possible with large devices.

But of course you won't complain about the Kindle or the Nexus 4, Amazon and LG devices don't have the Apple logo on them, and it isn't about the device itself, its about hating a company.

I'll never understand fanboys.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 8:46:19 PM , Rating: 1
You are clueless as always and no, I wouldnt buy a Nexus 4 due to lack of SD card. That is what you don't seem to get, there is one iPhone. The higher end model doesn't exist. The Nexus4 is $300 the iPhone5 is a similar spec'd phone with a lesser (yes) LCD and its $650. The same with kindle, its way cheap. If it were a high end model, it should have more.

Yes, you don't get fanboys... Right. You haven't been here for years defending Apple. I have no allegiance to any company. The second something better comes along I will drop android like it was a clingy bitch. You seem to be stuck on yesterdays premium products and not grasping that its no longer on top


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 2:51:18 AM , Rating: 2
You again miss the point, not everyone wants a giant phone. If you want one then go get it. I don't wear fat pants, belt clips, or carry purses, so they aren't for me. The faster hardware, better displays, and better apps on the iPhone are almost gravy in comparison.

quote:
The Nexus4 is $300 the iPhone5 is a similar spec'd phone with a lesser (yes) LCD


The Nexus 4 is slaughtered by the iPhone 5 in every single practical benchmark. The GS3 and GN2 can't even touch it, what makes you think that the cheaper Nexus 4 can?

As for lesser LCD, here's what Anandtech (a source that matters) had to say about the Nexus 4:
quote:
I’ve mentioned that Google continues to struggle at calibrating their displays. The truth is that everyone except for Apple, HTC, and occasionally Samsung, struggle at calibrating mobile displays. This continues to be the case with the Nexus 4, and the result is that accuracy could be better. I’m convinced the results that we’re getting out of the Nexus 4 basically represent no attempt at calibrating the display, and as a result the numbers suffer.


You can't even defend your points with correct facts. Keep bending reality.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/29/2013 7:47:09 AM , Rating: 2
Seriuosly, again! Let me re-iterate, $300 vs. $650. the battle is over.

Even if it wasnt LESS THAN 1/2 the price. Nexus 4 4.7 inches at 1280x768. iPhone 5 4 inches at 1136x640 - woops, game over it already lost. Perfect color calibration is something that graphic artists worry about. Maybe photographers or a few other specific types. On a phone, I dont care. It's not a big difference. Not like the huge size difference.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 5:23:50 PM , Rating: 2
There you go again, automatically assuming that bigger phones are better.

It is hard to take anything you say seriously when you automatically assume that one feature based around highly personal preference trumps everything else, especially when the tradeoffs are faster hardware, stability, support, battery life, applications, etc. Ridiculous.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/29/2013 5:30:14 PM , Rating: 2
/paste

You have now done it again. You have managed to take this article and this topic off topic and start to have the same tired debate you keep having. That debate isn't going anywhere. We have different viewpoints and I think we both agree both platforms have their assets and drawbacks. I personally think Androids assets way outweigh IOS, and you disagree. OK, we are done with that.

This article is about the iPhone losing its "cool new device" factor and the conversations before you arrived were related to that and why people think that and why its no longer the hot new thing. You care to comment on any of that then good, otherwise lets get past the same old debate.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/29/2013 9:41:41 AM , Rating: 2
"You again miss the point, not everyone wants a giant phone. If you want one then go get it."

You have now done it again. You have managed to take this article and this topic off topic and start to have the same tired debate you keep having. That debate isn't going anywhere. We have different viewpoints and I think we both agree both platforms have their assets and drawbacks. I personally think Androids assets way outweigh IOS, and you disagree. OK, we are done with that.

This article is about the iPhone losing its "cool new device" factor and the conversations before you arrived were related to that and why people think that and why its no longer the hot new thing. You care to comment on any of that then good, otherwise lets get past the same old debate.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 3:10:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The same with kindle, its way cheap. If it were a high end model, it should have more.


No, it shouldn't have "more" if "more" means an SD card slot, it would increase the size of the device and make it objectively worse as a reading device.

An SD card slot costs pennies, same with battery mounting. These aren't high end features, you can get those things in trash free flip phones.

Practicality and portability are among the most important features of high end devices. The whole point with mobile devices is to be portable. Reducing size past a point takes out the option for SD card slots and mounting for batteries. Look at an iPhone or Kindle teardown, there isn't a square millimeter for things other than memory that is soldered directly on the PCB and attached batteries. Antennas are actually mounted on the back housing of the Nexus 4, so again, no room.

Reduced size eliminates options for physical expansion, but the benefit are thinner, smaller, and lighter devices.

Making a Kindle larger so you can insert an SD card or carry a spare battery (silly since it can go over a month without a charge) is a step backwards. It is a device that is supposed to be held for hours at a time. Again, it wants to be light and almost paper thin. Same as an iPhone, it is insanely small for something with so much horsepower and battery life.

You'd think that other companies could put beefier hardware into their smartphones with all that extra size when they're getting spanked by an iPhone half their size. Maybe if they removed the SD card mounting...

Anyway, every single Kindle since the first gen has been an improvement, and the first step was removing SD card expansion and the removable battery compartment to make it smaller.

Again, if you want huge devices, great, but there are huge positive practical tradeoffs to removing those things in order to reduce the size and make them lighter, all without sacrificing performance or battery life.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/29/2013 7:41:42 AM , Rating: 2
Ya, ya ya... I have heard your tired and incorrect logic before. We have had that debate before and we aren't going to agree.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 5:19:46 PM , Rating: 2
Someday there will be smartphones faster than anything else out there but that will be about as thin as an iPod Touch, maybe even thinner. Maybe they'll eventually be translucent pieces of acrylic-like material that can do anything like you see in films like Minority Report.

And there you'll be hysterically complaining about how they have no room for replaceable batteries, SD card slots, HDMI, ethernet, whatever.

Maybe a separate offshoot of phone design will go this direction for you: http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u112496/gordon-gekk...


RE: to be expected
By Tony Swash on 1/29/13, Rating: 0
RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/13, Rating: 0
RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 5:25:19 PM , Rating: 1
Right which is why I made the whole story up and there's totally NOT tons of people bitching about the same problem on Google searches lol.

bla bla bla Takin, just bla bla bla


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 5:26:58 PM , Rating: 3
Don't you know? A couple million people can have the same issue, but it's not really an issue!

Tony/Takin says so!


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 5:29:08 PM , Rating: 1
Is it an older iPad? I can see a lack of multitasking and concurrent downloads on a first gen iPad or an iPad 2, those things had a ridiculously low amount of RAM.

Again, mine does it just fine.

/shrug


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 5:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Wait wait whoa...did you just say an Apple product, your deity on Earth, had a "ridiculously low amount of RAM"!??

This seems to contrast sharply with your previous statements.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 5:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
What previous statements? I never said that the original iPad didn't have a low amount of RAM, I wasn't even posting here when it came out. That was always a big issue with it in terms of multitasking and holding web pages in memory when Safari was suspended.

The thing is that whatever I post here about Apple or PC parts or whatever it is based on benchmarks and hard data. It isn't about a "deity", unlike most of the Appletards or Fandroids that crap up the place here.

If you say something remotely positive about something, it doesn't automatically make one a fanboy. I KNOW, weird but its true!


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 5:44:52 PM , Rating: 2
Uhh you talk about Apple's products as if they are perfect. So how can they have low RAM now all of a sudden when you are conveniently trying to make a point?

You should run for politics with that wishy-washy bullcrap.

quote:
The thing is that whatever I post here about Apple or PC parts or whatever it is based on benchmarks and hard data.


AHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 5:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
No I don't, I point to benchmarks from places like Anandtech, internet metrics, developer metrics and support, etc etc. Easy and objective data that is out there for everyone to see. I also know that larger screens, physical keyboards, and SD card slots are desirable for other people, and those people should totally buy those products instead if they suit them better.

Baby Jesus doesn't like it when you lie, reclaimer


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2013 7:43:51 PM , Rating: 3
Okay that's going too far. I'm nothing if not an extremely honest person. There's no "lie" here except yours.

I cannot once recall you posting benchmarks to back up your claims. And if you did, I'm sure they would be Tony style biased garbage or out of context.

Watching you pretending to be a moderate after years of being an Apple fanboi is awesome. You're an admitted shareholder of the company who just so happens to focus on stock prices and profits twenty times a day here like your alter ego Tony. But yeah, that's just a coincidence.


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 8:01:26 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, half my iPhone/iPad responses to FUD are benchmarks from Anandtech. I know you took a long break from here after Obama got reelected but even then you should know better.

iPhone 5:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6330/50941...
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6330/50942...
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6330/50943...
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6330/50475...

AT's benchmarks on the iPad 4 are even higher:

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6472/51764...
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6472/51763...

quote:
You're an admitted shareholder of the company


Yeah, and I made a 40% return for about 10 grand total, selling call option spreads against Apple over the summer and fall, profiting on its decline.

I know people like you and retro thrive on simple black and white strawman arguments to form your world view, but things aren't so simple. I also think its hilarious that I profited from AAPL going down more than any of the haters here.


RE: to be expected
By Reclaimer77 on 1/29/2013 5:01:26 PM , Rating: 1
Okay apparently you think posting links now, in response to links NOT posted in the past, works like some type of time machine? That's the dumbest thing I've seen all week Takin.

Stop saying FUD, because I don't think you know what it means. FUD are comments like you accusing Android of being "less efficient" than iOS with nothing to back it up, something I've seen you do at least 20 times.

Why is this FUD?
1. Cannot be quantified or bench-marked in any way with current software as there is no way to cross-platform benchmark competing mobile ecosystems as with PC's, it's basically an opinion presented as fact.

2. Statement not put in context with the fact that the screen of a smartphone accounts for about 65%+ of battery usage, NOT the OS. Before the iPhone5, Android smartphones had and still have MUCH larger screens. Figure it out genius. Also FUD statement not taking into account Android always being a true multi-tasking OS, while iOS hasn't and still isn't. This is not the technical definition of something being "less efficient".

quote:
Yeah, and I made a 40% return for about 10 grand total


So? Missing the point much idiot? You were and are personally invested in the company. This makes you something called biased, and leads to a conflict of interest. Maybe you've heard of it?

So in closing, we've established that you're still an iTard, and still a fucking moron, and Apple still completely sucks. Any questions?


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/13, Rating: 0
RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 5:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
Like, if I was emotionally invested in my short position then I should have been the biggest Apple hater around, by your logic. I had a substantial position based on Apple going down, and I'm supposed to be cheering for the stock?

Ridiculous.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 11:03:27 AM , Rating: 1
we know...you guys make an article about it daily.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 11:19:36 AM , Rating: 1
And you defend them daily like the good little lemming you are...


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By Dorkyman on 1/28/2013 11:52:38 AM , Rating: 1
"Fatter lemmings" would be a great name for a rock band.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 11:53:39 AM , Rating: 1
You =

2. lemming

A derogatory term used to reference a person who seemingly does not possess any form of individual thought, and instead, mindlessly follows the behaviors and actions of the masses.

Me = Not


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 1:54:12 PM , Rating: 2
"mindlessly follows the behaviors and actions of the masses"

there are so many apple haters...pretty safe to say that it is considered masses now. how ironic.

aka....fat lemming.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 2:03:58 PM , Rating: 2
What's ironic is how much of a moron you are..


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/28/2013 8:22:56 PM , Rating: 1
whats ironic is how fat you are...


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 8:50:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, because you know me so well? Seriously? You are just a moron troll. It's obvious, done feeding.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/30/2013 11:04:56 AM , Rating: 2
lol...so sad. Your ideas somehow magically exclude yourself.

Masses hate on apple... yet 0% of them are unoriginal including you...sure dude.

I dont know you at all, yet you know me to call me a moron because i dont agree with you.

whatever you need to tell yourself to not be self aware of how crappy your life is, by all means. Enjoy.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/31/2013 7:06:36 AM , Rating: 2
Not trying to be original?

quote:
I dont know you at all, yet you know me to call me a moron because i dont agree with you.
I call you a moron, because, quite frankly, you are a moron. Your posts show this. Don't need to know you personally to know you are a moron.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/31/2013 11:28:49 AM , Rating: 2
you have such wisdom.

hey everyone, posts that dont bash apple makes you a moron...so just talk badly about apple and you can skip that whole education thing.

CheezeW1z-L337-TYPER-never-had-a-69er said so.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/31/2013 12:27:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
CheezeW1z-L337-TYPER-never-had-a-69er said so
I may not have, I may have, quite frankly, that is none of your concern.

I can guarantee I have had more pussy then you will ever get in your life.


RE: to be expected
By xti on 1/31/2013 6:48:40 PM , Rating: 1
he is getting sooo maaaaaaaaaaaaaddddd


RE: to be expected
By kmmatney on 1/28/2013 4:36:25 PM , Rating: 2
I don't mind the UI so much - it's just a way to launch Apps for me, and I find multi-tasking "good enough". I just want a bigger screen, and if they don't deliver when my contract is up I'll be switching to Android.


RE: to be expected
By hugo_stiglitz on 1/28/2013 10:42:12 AM , Rating: 3
You're right. Apple targets the high-end and they USE to own the high-end. Not anymore. Their marketshare is dwindling in that market. The competition has caught up. And it doesn't appear as though Apple currently has anything up its sleeve to restore it to its former glory. All this is currently reflected in its stock price.

In a few years, iOS will be run on approximately 10% of devices. A small niche.


RE: to be expected
By Tony Swash on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 12:38:10 PM , Rating: 3
That was the Apple that innovated and put out products that were ahead of the competition. Today's Apple is the Apple that is relying on past achievements and regurgitating the same product with slight spec increases that is BEHIND the competition. Good luck with hanging on past acheivement though. It served RIM and Palm well in the mobile space. ;) What you are seeing now is the tide turning.

http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=AAPL

http://beta.fool.com/justinweinstein/2013/01/28/ap...


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/2013 6:16:09 PM , Rating: 1
From the Fool blog:

quote:
What these results do show, though, is a company that is experiencing margin compression in an age of heightened competition.


Margin compression came from selling a major product revision, not from trying to undercut competition. This similar margin decline happened every Summer and Spring quarter whenever they'd launch a new major product revision (iPhone 4, iPad 3, etc) and margins would increase in subsequent quarters. Its all public record. The important difference is that the 2012 revisions all launched during the holiday quarter, something they hadn't done before. There is no other reason why they'd make the same net profit (13BN) while making more gross revenue (45BN to 55BN) and increasing iDevice sales YoY.

Competition isn't driving their margins down, the iPhone costs as much for carriers as it ever has. Increased production costs are currently driving their margins down.

This guy has no idea what he's talking about. His solutions for Apple: buy Facebook or start a new social network. Ridiculous.


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 6:58:13 PM , Rating: 2
mmmhhhhmmm

http://vr-zone.com/articles/apple-budget-iphone-de...

And when the low end iPhone comes out, its not because they are chasing marketshare. It's because of ... Which what now wait!


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/28/13, Rating: 0
RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 8:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
Get your threads straight. That is the topic to the thread you replied to.you proceeded to pick a separate non related issue on a link


RE: to be expected
By TakinYourPoints on 1/29/2013 3:58:31 AM , Rating: 2
Fair enough, then you post articles that are relevant to the subthread topic, not irrelevant and poorly reasoned posts like the Fool blog. :)


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/29/2013 7:38:05 AM , Rating: 2
IF you read teh article, you would know it followed another topic in this thread that Apple is no longer better than the competitors.

"What differentiated Apple from the rest only a year ago was the company's perceived ability to create products that would redefine an area of technology and ultimately force its competition to follow in its tracks. The case today, though is far different . Google, Microsoft, and others have developed products and software that do not follow in Apple's footsteps, but rather walk alongside the acclaimed leader. "


RE: to be expected
By menting on 1/28/2013 12:40:06 PM , Rating: 2
uhh, in your dreams maybe.
If Apple does not chase market share, they would not be boasting about their market share nor how many iOS devices are activated every day.


RE: to be expected
By Tony Swash on 1/28/13, Rating: -1
RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 1:47:01 PM , Rating: 2
TL;DR

No one cares..


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 2:37:42 PM , Rating: 3
Tony, why do you bother typing ? No-one reads all the crap you write. they see your name and know its a one sided 1/2 truth and pass. Really, just save yourself some time and copy/paste the same thing in every post. "Apple is the best, and they can do no wrong".

If you could just be objective once in a while it would go a long way toward people not thinking you are here on an agenda, but you just cant see to do it.


RE: to be expected
By Dorkyman on 1/28/2013 3:22:22 PM , Rating: 2
In fairness to Tony, I enjoy reading his posts because he does write well and offers a different point of view.

My question, Tony, is suppose a few years from now Apple's market share in smartphones is 8% but profitable. Would you be pleased with that scenario?


RE: to be expected
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 3:33:45 PM , Rating: 5
"he does write well "

That's why we know he's full of s$#t. He is obviously an intelligent person. He is well spoken/written and obviously smart. His posts are very smartly crafted to spread disinformation, show one side of the story, downplay anything bad that happened to Apple and overplay anything bad that happened to a competitor. He is way too smart to have such a closed mind. If he was just some dullard you could chalk it up to that, but he isn't. Whatever his agenda here is, he is doing it on purpose.


RE: to be expected
By nafhan on 1/28/2013 5:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not reading your whole deal, but this is completely untrue:
quote:
Moreover Apple's recent success, not to mention it's longevity in the tech business, has never been the result of achieving market share.
The times where Apple's cash reserves were lowest and their future most in doubt coincided almost perfectly with the low points in their market share. It would not be unreasonable to say that Apple making it through their previous low point was almost pure luck. If a couple things had gone differently in the 90's, there would be no Apple computer today.

Likewise, they recently had nearly 50% of the smartphone and 90+% of the tablet market, and along with this came unprecedented profits.

Apple might not chase market share (despite your seeming certainty, you don't know that, nor do I), but they do VERY poorly when they don't have it. That's a fact.


RE: to be expected
By hugo_stiglitz on 1/28/2013 1:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying Apple is in any financial trouble. Will they continue to pull in massive profits? Of course. But will they continue to be the juggernaut that they've been these past few years (who's stock was on track to reach $1000 in some investor's hopeful eyes)? Not likely.

BTW you don't need to try to convince me, I don't own any Apple stocks :P

Maybe try convincing those investor's that have lost their confidence in Apple and are selling off their shares.


RE: to be expected
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/28/2013 1:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple does not chase market share. Period.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


RE: to be expected
By Gio6518 on 1/28/2013 2:40:57 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Apple essentially sells one phone: the iPhone, which is not a cheap phone. Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Acer, Asus, Sony, Toshiba, LG, etc... all produce differing phone models, all running Android and at ALL price points.


there goes another iTool that just can't get facts straight making crap up in their head, crApple still sells older versions at "cheaper" prices to compete...

http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/smartphon...

crApple continues to follow their 90's model and it's hurting them once again


RE: to be expected
By chick0n on 1/28/2013 9:20:19 PM , Rating: 1
high end?

last I checked it cost 199 and u get one from AT&T with 2 yr contract. how high can that be ?

problem with iphone is that it's supported by a huge arrogant fan base who would buy shit as long as there is an apple logo on the box. but even some of those die hard fans are sick n tired of the iCrap they are getting every year.


RE: to be expected
By BZDTemp on 1/28/2013 11:38:35 AM , Rating: 2
Also more and more people are realizing that Apple is evil. I see this even with non-IT colleagues and the bottom line is that it is not just in Asia that Apple is no longer cool.


RE: to be expected
By degobah77 on 1/28/2013 12:03:48 PM , Rating: 2
The iDevice fad has run its course - the next release mine as well come with an iD10T connector.


RE: to be expected
By lawrance on 1/28/2013 9:38:23 PM , Rating: 2
...if you say so.


deja vu
By hugo_stiglitz on 1/28/2013 10:22:02 AM , Rating: 3
Anyone else here feeling deja vu?

Feels like the 80's to me. Just replace Windows with Android.




RE: deja vu
By retrospooty on 1/28/2013 10:38:36 AM , Rating: 2
RE: deja vu
By xti on 1/28/2013 11:05:11 AM , Rating: 1
oh...lol, i thought you were talking about this article...so many "apple guy went to pee" stories that they all feel like deja vu.


Are they buying "local"?
By nafhan on 1/28/2013 11:26:30 AM , Rating: 3
I'd be interested to see which Android phones they are buying. Are they buying non-Chinese Android phones (Moto, Samsung, HTC) to replace the "American" iPhone or are they going primarily with "local" (Huawei/ZTE)?

Obviously, they're all made in China. I just wonder how much of a concern that is for Chinese buyers (if at all).




fanbois are so yesterday
By Mike Acker on 1/29/2013 7:22:03 AM , Rating: 2
hot goes cold ovenight and fanbois are so yesterday




Both are Cool
By Joofville on 1/29/2013 7:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
I enjoy Apple and Android devices. However I think Apple lost it's primary asset, Steve Jobs.




"I mean, if you wanna break down someone's door, why don't you start with AT&T, for God sakes? They make your amazing phone unusable as a phone!" -- Jon Stewart on Apple and the iPhone

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