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This is the board's second report on NSA spy programs

A U.S. privacy board recently said that the National Security Administration's (NSAs) data collection methods have been effective for security purposes, but also treading on U.S. citizens' privacy in some instances. 

According to Reuters, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board -- which is an independent government agency established in 2004 that advises the U.S. president and Congress on counter-terrorism operations -- said in a recent report that the data collection program allowed the government to collect foreign intelligence "quickly and effectively." 

However, some parts of the program have pushed into "constitutional unreasonableness" when it comes to the privacy of U.S. citizens, according to the board. 

The board also offered some recommendations so that the program could balance privacy, civil rights and national security better than before. 


The five-person board wrote a previous report on NSA programs back in January. That report had a much different conclusion, saying that the NSA's bulk collection of phone records is illegal, and provides only minimal benefits to countering terrorism. It went on further to say that the program should end entirely.

The NSA has had the spotlight ever since former NSA contractor Edward Snowden blew the cover on its surveillance programs early last year, which consisted of bulk data collection from sources like phone records, where the government took on a "collect now, filter later" approach. The agency has said that the bulk data collection was meant to identify terrorist threats, but was discovered that the data of Americans has been collected without any clear evidence of terrorist links.  

A presidential review panel made 46 recommendations regarding greater restraint on the NSA's surveillance programs in December 2013, where one of the major recommendations involved the elimination of bulk collection of phone call records. 

Source: Reuters



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Effective at what?
By tayb on 7/2/2014 6:44:27 PM , Rating: 5
How many actual domestic terrorist attacks have been stopped? I want an actual number with details that can be corroborated with facts.

These attacks must have been stopped through the new NSA programs and not as a result of routine law enforcement, tips, informants, CIA operations, or FBI operations.

And they must be actual attacks. Sending money to a terrorist organization is not an attack.

And these attacks must be attacks that were planned on targets within the continental United States.

I want to know how many attacks were stopped, what the target was, and how many lives were saved.

Then, armed with this information, we can have a discussion about how thwarting these attacks and saving these lives is not worth violating the US Constitution.




RE: Effective at what?
By Jeffk464 on 7/2/2014 7:52:31 PM , Rating: 2
The only ones I have heard of have been the ones where the FBI had to set up all the hoops for the "terrorist" to jump through.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/2/2014 8:01:06 PM , Rating: 3
Actually i think the US is its own worse enemy, the arrogance of the program is pissing of the hole world.

If you even spy on the heads of friendly governments, you know that they then don't have a problem violating right any person in the world.

After 9/11 the US had so much goodwill in the world, even in the Arabic world, and instead of using that goodwill, they used it to invade Iraq, based on lies.

And started to spy on foe and friends , and instead of the slight dislike of the American way of doing things in the world before 9/11, and all the sympathy they had almost across the hole world, the US is now from universal disliked to deeply hated true the hole world.

Good job Bush and Obama, you both made the world a much worse place to live in!


RE: Effective at what?
By MechanicalTechie on 7/2/2014 8:16:27 PM , Rating: 2
Perfectly said!

The amount of people I have meet that totally loath the US is mind boggling compared to a few years ago!

The sad truth is that the all the hate and animosity created by the US would of never occurred if they showed the rest of the world just a smidgen of respect and common courtesy.

The irony is that all these organisations setup to protect US interests are the ones that are doing the most damage.. go figure!


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/3/2014 1:14:04 AM , Rating: 3
My grandmother really believed that she only survived the end of the second world war, because of the American food drops over Holland.

Also we learned about the Marshall plan at school and how it helped starting the economy again.

So i grew up learning to be thankful for all the US help we got.

But after learning US CIA history, i was really surprised by the 9/11 attacks, as some of the worse dictators in the world, ware placed there by the CIA!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_...

But whit the election of Obama, most people in the world saw it as a sign that the American people wanted peace in the world again, and with the elan Obama had as a bridge builder he could have made the world a hell of a lot saver.

The only thing it would have taken, was to say sorry for the past things we have done.

If Obama would had, had the gut's of a real president, he would have flown to places like Teheran and said the US was sorry for Operation AJAX, and the overthrow of the legit government in 1953. (and for the actions in other countries)

If he had done that, he would have taken the wind out the sails of all the hardliners in places and country's Iran, and done more damage to the foundation of terrorist networks, then all the billions spend on the counter productive drones, that create even more new terrorist then they kill.

But in the end Obama is even a bigger disappointment then Bush Jr, as he also is a leader whose actions are not founded in real leadership, but just out of fear, and is just a weak leader whose actions only have made the world a even worse place to live in.


RE: Effective at what?
By stmok on 7/3/2014 3:17:40 AM , Rating: 5
I'm not American, I'm Australian. So I may see things slightly differently.

Yes, the CIA did topple an elected Govt of Iran. It was purely at the behest of a UK petroleum company (who lobbied the UK Govt at the time to pressure the USA to help them out).

What was Iran trying to do? Nationalize their petroleum industries. This would have cut out that British petroleum company.

The other was that the elected Govt of Iran at the time was a tyrant himself. Despite being pro-Western, he had a secret police to get rid of any political opposition that could potentially threaten his power.

The biggest mistake the CIA did was not foresee the potential consequences of what they've done. This is what actually surprised them. They didn't anticipate the replacement.

With the toppling of a tyrant, the replacement (radical clerics) was worse! They purged their own people to stamp out any potential opposition. Their own military suffered as the Americans left (no more technical support and spares) and their own experienced fighter pilots and soldiers were tortured or shot...Today, any new fighter or upgrade is at best, a Russian or Chinese import. The stuff they try to create on their own are nothing more than propaganda tools.

eg: That modified F-5E Tiger II with twin tails. They've only built 5 of them and paint them in "Blue Angels" colours. And when I say "built", I mean they sacrificed 5 existing airframes for propaganda purpose. If you do a little research, its the same five planes over and over again! (The serial numbers gave them away).

As for Obama? He's shown the American people and the world a few things.

* He's got charisma.

* He knows how to rile people up to gain and maintain power.
=> "Community Organizing" (Divide the Nation's people via envy politics.)

* He has no fondness for American Exceptionalism.
=> America left on its own, is a economically self-recovering country. It is very much like an airplane wing. When given enough speed (by getting out of the way), the wing lifts up with very little assistance...Thanks to Obama's own policies; he has caused massive stagnation. Recent numbers indicate America's economy has contracted. ie: A wing isn't going to fly if its weighed down and overloaded!

* He doesn't like America being a superpower and the associated responsibilities that go with that. It doesn't matter if its Ukraine, Syria, South China Sea, or the recent events in Iraq.
=> Choosing to do nothing is STILL making a choice.
=> When America doesn't step in (even to mediate a situation), the World go to crap. The recent events have demonstrated why the World really does need a strong and moral America.
=> Does anyone notice he repeatedly blames America and its people on the International stage? ie: International Appeasement.

* Obama's Foreign policy is simple...Don't f**k up. That's it. There is no real strategy in leading the world by showing other countries how one can prosper. (Lead by example). You can't complain about human rights to China if your own NSA is spying on your own people without warrants, etc. (Which is the exact reason the Communist Chinese used on Obama!)

* Everything about this guy is about scoring political points and to distract the public from his own failures. eg: having Bowe Bergdahl's parents at the White House in order to divert public's eyes away from the massive Veterans Affairs screw-up. (He has a whole chain of screw-ups that are quickly distracted away by something else. Pile upon pile of issues!)

* Gunning after political opponents with the power of the Govt...He claims "not a smidgen of corruption" at the IRS.

IRS attack on Conservatives and "missing emails"...I've worked on Govt mission-critical systems before. Hard drive crashes are no excuse for conveniently missing emails. Those systems have RAID capability that allow hot-swapping with weekly incremental back-ups. It is impossible for a specific emails to "go missing"...Unless its a direct order from the top. (The upper end of the food chain of the IRS are the only ones that have permissions/privileges to do such things.)

* And then we have this over-reaching NSA...This is what happens when the Govt believes it knows best for the people. An unaccountable powerful Govt entity that sees itself as above the law.

Right now, Obama's America is a joke. There's no other way to put it. Enemies are emboldened. Allies are not sure if USA will back them in time of trouble. The American people are fearing their Govt. (But angry at it).

...But then, what do you expect from someone who has kept his past largely hidden and has demonstrated in the last few years he is no leader of America.

One can hold the title of a leader. But one is no leader when they don't demonstrate and prove themselves worthy of that title.

There's one important lesson that ALL Americans must take away from the "Obama Experience":
=> ALWAYS look at what a politician DOES. Ignore what they say. Because their true motives are revealed in what they do and the results they produce.

The only way to fix America is for its people to take back the Govt from those who either have nefarious intent or are "well intentioned". (The results are the same regardless).

The Govt is supposed to serve its people. Not the other way around.

This can only be achieved with public audits and accountability. This is what most corrupt bureaucrats and officials fear. Just watch all the excuses and BS that comes out as a response! (When the crapper hits the fan corrupt bureaucrats always look out for number one!)

As for America itself? Overall, its a good country. But a good country that has itself done some bad things and fumbled around. To make it great again, its people need to wise up and be awaken into what has gone wrong...No, I didn't say it was going to be easy! Good things are never easy to accomplish!


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/3/2014 5:47:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The other was that the elected Govt of Iran at the time was a tyrant himself. Despite being pro-Western.

I believe that information is more history falsification by the US and UK governments, as damage control.

I actually have some first hand information from my uncle, his father was business man, and a Mosaddegh supporter, and had ties some ties with parts of the Mosaddegh government.

He was at the time of the coup, a student in my hometown Leiden (Holland), and stayed there after the coup, as his father was not welcome anymore in Iran.

Of what my uncle tolled me, that he was no fan of Mosaddegh, but he was also no tyrant, as some say, and make him out to be.

quote:
he had a secret police to get rid of any political opposition that could potentially threaten his power.

The people of the secret police ware certainly no angels, far from it, as they ware remnants of the former British secret police, that just served new masters, and there behavior was under Mosaddegh not better or worse then what it was under the British, but still a lot better then it was under the Shah, there new masters, from what he heard from friends still living in Iran.

quote:
The only way to fix America is for its people to take back the Govt from those who either have nefarious intent or are "well intentioned".

That will be virtually impossible, as the US press is so polarized, that there is no middle anymore but only people that are for or against there opinion.

Independent news coverage like that /of the BBC is hard to find, how is a country with so many polarized opinions ever gone find its way back, specially if the news is also almost totally polarized?


RE: Effective at what?
By prophet001 on 7/3/2014 8:03:25 AM , Rating: 2
Dangit!

You broke my like button.


RE: Effective at what?
By anactoraaron on 7/3/2014 1:25:16 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
=> ALWAYS look at what a politician DOES. Ignore what they say. Because their true motives are revealed in what they do and the results they produce.


+6

Corrupt government appointments, NSA spying & Snowden, Gitmo open forever, drone strikes, etc. Obama was a political 'bait and switch' of massive proportions.


RE: Effective at what?
By Jeffk464 on 7/3/2014 1:51:32 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
ALWAYS look at what a politician DOES. Ignore what they say. Because their true motives are revealed in what they do and the results they produce


You got that right. Unfortunately he got a lot of young voters to fall for his stump speech junk. It takes a few of decades of living to realize that you never believe what a politician is saying. Anyways there is a global phenomenon going on right now with a shift in the global economy moving from western countries to eastern countries. The US and Europe are just going to have to get used to playing a more minor role in the world, I think its just a shocking change for people.


RE: Effective at what?
By flatrock on 7/3/2014 1:14:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But after learning US CIA history, i was really surprised by the 9/11 attacks, as some of the worse dictators in the world, ware placed there by the CIA!


The CIA did aid rebels in nations that we our enemies. Sometimes it worked out better than others. Sometimes it helped with short term goals, but not with long term goals. However, while it in many cases did not in the long run result in a better government for that nation, it only occasionally resulted in a worse one.

Most of those countries were screwed up before the US took sides in internal struggles, and remained screwed up afterwards. The US is not responsible for that. Nor are we responsible for all the tragedies in the world we were unable to prevent.

The US has made mistakes, and has made matters worse in some places. But too much of the world just finds it easier to blame the US for everything rather than do anything themselves.

As for Obama, I'm not sure why you would think a politician with no foreign policy experience, and one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate would have been any kind of bridge builder, especially a foreign policy bridge builder.

quote:
If Obama would had, had the gut's of a real president, he would have flown to places like Teheran and said the US was sorry for Operation AJAX, and the overthrow of the legit government in 1953.


Depending on who you ask, either our support of the Shaw in 1953, or our abandonment of him in 1979 is to blame for all of Iraq's problems. Either way, it is always our fault. Since things got much worse for most people in Iran after the Shaw's removal in 1979, I tend to believe that AJAX wasn't such a big mistake and abandoning the Shaw was a huge mistake.

Then again I had classmates in elementary school who had a parent among those held hostage in Iran during Carter's incompetent handling of the situation, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

quote:
If he had done that, he would have taken the wind out the sails of all the hardliners in places and country's Iran, and done more damage to the foundation of terrorist networks, then all the billions spend on the counter productive drones, that create even more new terrorist then they kill.


You need a serious history lesson on the Middle East. Apologies and appeasement have been tried many times in politics there and have NEVER produced any real desirable results. I'm not sure why people continue to think that trying it one more time it the solution to all our problems. Maybe for the same reason some people thought Obama would be a foreign policy genius.

These are oppressive government that maintain strict control over their populations through a combination of fear and hate, mostly hate. They needs to point their finger at someone else to hate rather than have people wonder too much about why they keep taking the abuse their own government dishes out to them. So they point their fingers at the Great Satan (the United States), and Israel. These government's cannot reverse decades of rhetoric and decide to play nice with the US unless they can transfer all that hate to someone else, because they definitely don't want that hate turned back on them, and if they stated playing nice with the US, the likely result would be their people turning on them.


RE: Effective at what?
By Jeffk464 on 7/3/2014 1:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
Carter wasn't that incompetent in handling the Iran Hostage thing. He authorized a ballsy special ops operation to get them out. It just happened to go bad, Obama could have suffered the same failure with the mission to get Osama bin Ladan. There are no guarantees when you launch such a mission.


RE: Effective at what?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2014 3:41:15 PM , Rating: 1
Carter was absolutely incompetent. I mean come on, you're going against history with that kind of thinking.

Gee I think I see a pattern here. Two Leftist-extremist President's, with a foreign policy style of appeasement and apologizing for America, have both had disastrous US Embassy blunders in the Middle East.

They don't call it a "debacle" because it was "ballsy". Operation Eagle Claw was a national embarrassment. The most powerful country in the world, thwarted by a bunch of freaking college students! And for Carter to allow that to go on for 444 days...unbelievable. HE should have been shot.


RE: Effective at what?
By Jeffk464 on 7/3/2014 4:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
Going into Pakistan could have been a major national embarrassment, that's why its ballsy.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/3/2014 2:57:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The CIA did aid rebels in nations that we our enemies.

Mostly not enemies, but financial gains ware the biggest motivators of these coups.

Read the links in this list, and look at the reasons why there ware coups, and also at the effects of the coups for the locals, in the "Aftermath" part of the part of the article's.

Look how the US reacted on the 9/11 attacks, ware in those countries millions of people have died by the hand of US supported dictators, and it did not only occasionally resulted in a worse one's.

Holland, my birth country dose also not have the cleanest of hands, and it has us also taken over 50 years to acknowledge for the tings we done in Indonesia, when they wanted to be independent from Holland.

Only those crimes happened deep in he back country, the US supported crimes are a hell of a lot better documented, only the people don't wane know what the US government has done in its name.

quote:
Depending on who you ask, either our support of the Shaw in 1953, or our abandonment of him in 1979 is to blame for all of Iraq's problems.

I would say read up on the reasons for Operation AJAX, it will tell you all you (don't) wane know.

quote:
You need a serious history lesson on the Middle East. Apologies and appeasement have been tried many times in politics there and have NEVER produced any real desirable results.

Ooo really, tell me then, witch president has said or made any apologies for operation AJAX.

quote:
Then again I had classmates in elementary school who had a parent among those held hostage in Iran during Carter's incompetent handling of the situation, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

So yeah then again, my uncle had to flee his country, and his country now fucked up for over 60 years.

And did you know why your classmates parent got taken hostage?
Because the Iranian students ware afraid that that the US would intervene again and help the hated Shaw in power again.

There is a American view of things and there is a view of the locals that have bin on the wrong end of the stick.

I am not saying Americans are bad people, most are actually really descent, hard working people, that would be ashamed if they really knew what there governments has done in there name's.

But as long as the truth is shielded from them, they and you believe that they only or mostly hate the US out of jealousy.


RE: Effective at what?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2014 3:17:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And did you know why your classmates parent got taken hostage?
Because the Iranian students ware afraid that that the US would intervene again and help the hated Shaw in power again.


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Seriously I grow tired of your constant anti-American nationalistic attacks. But that one just takes the cake.

quote:
Holland, my birth country dose also not have the cleanest of hands


You also aren't Nazi's today thanks, in large part, to the United States. But hey, why let that get in the way of your rant. America is the great satan, please continue.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/4/2014 4:34:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Really, so your saying that they just taken the hostages because they just hated the US?

No they taken them as a shield against new US intervention, and because they wanted the US to hand over there pupped, so he could stand trail for what he had done.

And they ware holding the US government co responsible for his actions.

quote:

You also aren't Nazi's today thanks, in large part, to the United States.

Yes i am eternally grateful for that, but your grandfathers good deeds, dose not extend to you or any other American or the current leaders. or do you think it should?

quote:
America is the great satan, please continue.

No i don't think so, i think the US overwhelmingly filled up with hard working honest people, but mainly because of a almost totally broken news system, they are poorly informed, and that broken news system is feeding them there daily FUD.

But you are gone say i am a US hater anyway, i just wished that you would use the BBC for two or three months as 50% of your news source, and compare it with the US coverage.

Just compare the BBC, and see how they bring the news, as you can see they truly give you information and unbiased as possible opinions, compared to Fox and NBC news.

But we had this dance before, and its very unlikely that anything i say will get true to you.

But answer me this, if the US is suds a great nation, why do almost all Americans do not trust there politicians at all, and see them just as low as lawyers, greedy grabbers that are in to it, just for them self's.
And it not really new news: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104114/

As in my country, most people still believe in there political system.


RE: Effective at what?
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 7/4/2014 7:43:17 PM , Rating: 2
The complete known history of the Middle East is about as fascinating as history gets in my o. It looks to me like the reason they have the rulers they have is because it has "always" been ruled by outsiders. They don't have a long history of nations and the nations they find themselves in have little to do with the people they identify with. Imagine living in a nation where there were about 4 or 5 nationalities and cultures that often had recently violent histories. Again, that violence introduced by foreigners who wanted to install puppet governments in order to congtrol trade routes. Puppets who today still exist in many middle eastern nations, whose families were put into power by the English or Dutch East Indies companies.

Clearly if it wasn't for oil we wouldn't be involved over there anymore. Nationalizing THEIR oil should have been a freedom afforded to their leader. But imagine the concern of England during the cold war! Plus it sucks and is unfair business practice, and is basically theft. If you did this to me I personally don't find it necessary to throw you out of all your personal possessions and give them to someone else of my liking. Rather I would just publicly denounce you and move on with my life.

That's what we should do I don't understand why foreign politics must be any different? Well I do when I play a video game where I control a nation (Civilization V or Darkest Hour), because I will cheat and murder if it means victory. I turn into a sociopath in video games.


RE: Effective at what?
By tamalero on 7/7/2014 10:59:59 AM , Rating: 2
You need to understand that nationalizations are not just "silly decisions to look popular and damage foreign interests"

Like Mexico's nationalization of Oil.
the UK and US oil corps refused to pay decent wages tot heir employes.. they had full control of the oil fields, gave zero rights to the local workers and huge inflated salaries to theirs (clear discrimination) and in most cases, refused to pay taxes or clean up their messes if something went wrong.
And after the nationalizations, the oil companies outright sabotaged/blocked the oil exports and parts needed to maintain the industry.

Oil companies are never to be taken as those "poor big defenseless corps".
Plus there is a long story of oil corps creating wars/instability just to get a hold of the oil sources.


RE: Effective at what?
By tamalero on 7/7/2014 10:51:44 AM , Rating: 2
If he had done, the right wingers, teabaggers and Fox news would be blasting him for being a "commie muslim terrorist" who "coddles with people who had murdered Us citizens" and other jamba mamba.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/7/2014 11:08:06 AM , Rating: 2
If he was a real leader, he could have setup a frame work for doing it in his second term, during his firs term.

Nixon was also not very popular his 1972 Nixon visit to China at the moment, but in hindsight is seen as the most profound thing he did during his presidency.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China
Instead of being a leader with vision for the future, he has a lead his country with fear as guide.


RE: Effective at what?
By flatrock on 7/3/2014 12:36:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you even spy on the heads of friendly governments, you know that they then don't have a problem violating right any person in the world.


From your statement you obviously don't trust the US government. Even if you do trust them on some things, you don't trust them on others, or you fear that they could do too much harm if they didn't have your best interests in mind.

Yet you are appalled that the US government doesn't trust other governments enough to not spy on them?

Your argument contradicts itself.

Other nations aren't our BFFs. They aren't even a single consistent entity. They are made up of lots of different political groups who's prominence in that government will shift over time, sometimes slowly, sometimes rapidly.

Take the French as an example. They are a member of Nato and in many ways good allies. Yet French banks with a lot of political influence in the French government have historically been involved with violating a number of US/Nato/UN Sanctions. There were a number of French companies that were selling banned items to Iraq under the guise of the UN Oil for Food program, and the French government showed little interest in policing them.

If your ally is a democracy, it is almost inevitable that the ally with have significant political groups that oppose your own national interests, and some of that opposition will represent real threats or will be used by those who are real threats for their own ends.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/3/2014 2:16:24 PM , Rating: 2
So you think it would be ok if Germany taps the phones of Obama or in the white house?

Or like during Copenhagen negotiations of a economic type, active spying on communications of friendly country's?

I am not saying that my government dose not ''spy'' on the US or other governments to find out ware they stand, and they properly dose try to bait officials off the record in revealing to much, to see ware they stand in negotiations.

But tapping a friendly head of state's phone, then your not crossing a line, you left it so far behind that you cant even see the line anymore, some things you just don't do!

If you cant see, that, that is not exceptionable behavior, then its really just doggy dog,and start treating all countries like enemy's.


RE: Effective at what?
By Piiman on 7/4/2014 10:41:01 AM , Rating: 2
"So you think it would be ok if Germany taps the phones of Obama or in the white house?"

How do you know they haven't? I say more power to them if they can do it.


RE: Effective at what?
By michael67 on 7/4/2014 12:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
So you would say it's ok if your neighbor would place a spy mic in your house.

Ok we have two different interpretations of what is acceptable behavior, but if someone did that to me, they would not be my friend anymore.


RE: Effective at what?
By flatrock on 7/3/2014 12:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
How do you determine how many terrorist attacks have been stopped since they never happened after they have been stopped. How do you know if taking a dangerous terrorist off the the street will stop attacks or those attacks will be carried out by others.

No mater what the government says, the numbers will be picked apart by armchair generals and the NSA will be accused of lying.

You say you want to sit down with the numbers and have a reasonable discussion, but you obviously aren't going to believe anything you are told anyway.

Not that the government can provide you all the data you want without putting sources and methods at risk and make their ability to perform surveillance less effective.

Real transparency isn't possible or practical. That's reality. I understand the frustration with the political system that goes into such a rant, but demanding the impossible and getting upset when the government doesn't comply isn't productive.

You can and should complain to your elected representatives. Of course they may be corrupt and not have your best interests in mind. Or they may just have a lot more information on the subject than you have and are making decisions based on that knowledge.

Welcome to a representative democracy. A horrible system that is still better than the alternatives.


RE: Effective at what?
By ralith on 7/7/2014 9:59:36 AM , Rating: 2
It is irrelevant to me if the NSA's program stopped a terrorist attack or not. I am NOT willing to give up my rights for this, or any other government program that will infringe on them; period. No citizen of the United States of America should be willing to give up any of their rights for any reason it goes against the grain of everything that is great about this country and everything this country has fought for since its inception.


ugly
By chromal on 7/2/2014 8:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
Get a warrant, or hands off my packets and metadata. The entire program is an afford to an US Citizen's digity, whether they realize it or not.




RE: ugly
By chromal on 7/2/2014 8:46:05 PM , Rating: 2
*affront


RE: ugly
By Jeffk464 on 7/3/2014 4:49:40 PM , Rating: 2
"digity" is that like digital dignity?


By marvdmartian on 7/3/2014 7:47:33 AM , Rating: 2
More like, kicked it over, stomped on its head, and then pissed on it.....all the while, while telling us it did nothing wrong!

Not to worry, citizen....the government has your best interests at heart!




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