Print 73 comment(s) - last by lexluthermiest.. on Aug 28 at 10:34 AM

Microsoft is ready to move past Windows 8.x

It looks as though Microsoft is looking to put Windows 8/8.1 far behind it with its next operating system release. Microsoft insider Mary Jo Foley revealed last week that Microsoft is expecting to release a tech preview of Windows 9 next month to both developers and consumers.
Today, The Verge’s own sources say that Microsoft will unveil Windows 9 at a press event on September 30. According to The Verge:
Microsoft is said to be planning an overview of key new features of the upcoming operating system, with a technical preview ready for developers and enthusiasts. Microsoft is also building a separate combined version of Windows RT and Windows Phone, and the company may take the time to detail this work during its press event.
Windows 9
[Image Source: Windows Store (Wallpaper App)]
Windows 9 is expected to bring Cortana to desktops/notebooks/tablets, a new Start Menu, and Virtual Desktops.
As we reported earlier this morning, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 combined only account for 12.48 percent of the Windows market compared to 24.82 percent for Windows XP and 51.22 percent for Windows 7.

Source: The Verge

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Keeping an open mind..
By Morg72 on 8/21/2014 5:47:31 PM , Rating: 4
I am trying to keep an open mind about Windows 9, but my expectations are pretty low. I know it will be a polished version of Windows 8, but I'm not sure that will be such a good thing.

I have several clients that have bought new computers and called me to "get rid of Windows 8". I usually urge them to give 8 a chance and give it a little time to get used to the changes. I usually receive a call a few days later demanding the upgrade to Windows 7. Not a single client liked it so far. One client gave it 2 weeks and threatened that "if I didn't change him over to 7, he'd find someone who would", I have never seen that client that frustrated before or since.

I have used Windows 8 on tablets, laptops and desktops and have Windows Phone 8 on my personal phone. Windows 8 is really nice on touch devices, but I couldn't stand it on a desktop or laptop.

As I said, I am keeping an open mind for Windows 9, but there needs to be a compelling reason for me to upgrade and being new doesn't cut it for me. Microsoft has a real chance here to correct things like they did between Vista and 7, lets just hope they don't ignore their customers like they did during Windows 8 development.

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By chripuck on 8/22/14, Rating: -1
RE: Keeping an open mind..
By Da W on 8/22/2014 8:28:02 AM , Rating: 1
I know its been said over and over again, but
Windows 95... bad
Windows 98... good
Windows Me... Bad
Windows XP... good
Windows vista... bad
Windows 7... good
Windows 8... bad
WIndows 9...(insert your prediction here)

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By Ammohunt on 8/22/2014 2:21:17 PM , Rating: 3
More like
Windows 95... Awesome!
Windows 98... Awesomer!
Windows Me... Horrid money grab
Windows 2000..OK
Windows XP...Awesome!
Windows vista... OK
Windows 7... Best!
Windows 8... WTF were they thinking.
WIndows 9...Recover with any luck.

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By lexluthermiester on 8/28/2014 10:34:20 AM , Rating: 2

More like
Windows 95... Good!
Windows 98... Awesome!
Windows Me... Also Awesome.... when properly configured.
Windows NT... OK
Windows 2k... Great!
Windows XP... Awesome!
Windows Vista... Good... after SP2
Windows 7... Best!
Windows 8... Epic Failure!! Seriously? WTF were they thinking?
Windows 9... Potential failure!

Fixed that for ya...

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By Bill S. on 8/25/2014 8:44:11 AM , Rating: 2
My prediction is, October 1st will be the date that people will either enthusiastically embrace W9.....or decide that they're going to stick with W7 for a few more years!

I do get a kick out of how MS is already talking about W7 end of life, within a fairly short period of time (relatively speaking). Um, 'scuze me? How about, long before you talk about W7 EOL, you discuss VISTA EOL??

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By Morg72 on 8/22/2014 11:00:42 AM , Rating: 2
Whatever it is, I've yet to have a client like it, even a little. I do my best not to give them my opinion about it on desktops and laptops until they have tried it, but yeah, they agree to try it but always mention how they have heard it is horrible.

As I said though, Windows 8 and Phone 8 I really like on touch devices. I find it cumbersome on non-touch and if Windows 9 changes that and adds something I find compelling, I'll be changing from Windows 7.

Interesting thing is, MS was warned repeatedly about the changes during the dev preview but chose not only to ignore the input, but actually took measures to stop the workarounds that people were coming up with (mostly ways to rebuild the start menu). If MS listens this time, they could have a winner, which would fit into their cycle.

RE: Keeping an open mind..
By sld on 8/23/2014 2:37:28 AM , Rating: 2
Interesting thing is, MS was warned repeatedly about the changes during the dev preview but chose not only to ignore the input, but actually took measures to stop the workarounds that people were coming up with (mostly ways to rebuild the start menu).

It was quite a shock to encounter the extent that Sinofsky tried to stop people from reverting to the old Start Menu design.

Title is mucked up
By Bonesdad on 8/22/2014 9:39:00 AM , Rating: 2
"to announces" announce

By umrdyldo on 8/21/14, Rating: -1
RE: Windows
By Flunk on 8/21/2014 11:47:50 AM , Rating: 5
I've seen that comment repeated thousands of times for every OS update ever. If people actually stuck to their guns everyone would still be running MSDOS 4.0.

RE: Windows
By amanojaku on 8/21/2014 1:14:40 PM , Rating: 4
I was afraid to try out 8 because of all the negative talk. I used it for the first time yesterday.

I love Windows 8.

First, the Start Screen. I've never used it. My computer boots to desktop, and I run non-metro applications. I'm annoyed at the lack of a Start Menu, but I'm not crippled by it. My most frequently used applications are pinned to the Taskbar (just like my Windos 7 desktop), so the only difference is using the Charms search to find things I rarely use. I assume people who need the Start Menu have dozens of applications they use frequently, so a missing Start Menu would be a deal-breaker.

The Control Panel is virtually identical to that of Windows 7. I found everything I needed with no trouble, even using it from the Desktop.

It's faster than any version of Windows before it. It's an All-In-One with a laptop hard drive (5,400RPM), so I expected it to be slow. Well, it cold boots to the desktop in under 30 seconds. Memory usage is lower. CPU utilization is lower. The Task Manager is WAY more informative. And the graphics are more responsive.

So I don't get why the world hates Windows 8. The average person would love Windows 8 if he tried it. Hell, the first Windows 8 lover I met primarily used a Mac. She found Windows 8 to be just as easy to use as Windows 7 and OS X. It's not for everyone, but there is nothing stopping the average user from switching to Windows 8, not even the Start Screen.

RE: Windows
By mars2k on 8/21/2014 3:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, well Windows 8 is so different that the learning curve to return to Win 7 productivity levels would be enormous in any enterprise. One computer geek working diligently might do it in a week but ramping up hundreds or thousands of business users would be out of the question. Now you know why 8 has been a dismal failure for Microsoft. You have to leeeeaaarrrrrrrnnnnnn it and the downtime for a business while that happens is significant. Add that to the general increased level of frustration while doing so it’s just not worth it.
I agree what’s under the covers is better but the human interface does not enhance productivity which is, after all, the driver for the largest purchases of the software.

RE: Windows
By amanojaku on 8/21/2014 4:09:37 PM , Rating: 1
I should point out that I use a mouse, no touch screen. It took me 10 minutes to learn Windows 8, without a manual or help file. Anyone claiming it's difficult to use either has never used it or is biased. In fact, Windows 8 desktop mode is SO similar to Windows 7 that I was mildly disappointed.

RE: Windows
By SeeManRun on 8/21/2014 4:46:34 PM , Rating: 2
When did you do this? Windows 8.1 is much better than Window 8.0 at launch.

RE: Windows
By retrospooty on 8/21/2014 5:10:22 PM , Rating: 4
A guy that browses tech sites like you and 10,000 normal end users at a company are a very different story for learning curve. That and like Seemanrun says, Win8 and 8.1 after the April '14 update are very different. They fixed alot of UI pain in that 1 1/2 years.

RE: Windows
By chripuck on 8/22/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By NellyFromMA on 8/22/2014 9:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, the majority of business end-users often become confused at even the slightest change in the work flow they have gotten used to over the passed 15 years.

MS obviously needed to emphasize the trends for consumers, which are definitely different than business-users so I definitely don't think 8 was a misstep. It was a necessity for the mid-to-long term quite frankly.

I whole heartedly agree that it ISN'T that different. However, that's relative and for someone who probably only uses the computer to get paid and to check e-mail, it matters.

Win 9 will hopefully do a better job at merging the two ideologies. They've done a good job so far IMO.

RE: Windows
By w1z4rd on 8/22/2014 7:51:40 AM , Rating: 2
I've been using windows since 3.1 and used everyone since.
I Love win8.1(8s start menu was incomplete), I really really do. I use it on my desktops without touch and I really enjoy the start menu,the live tiles and tbh i'm a lil angry they are removing the metro style start menu. I just hope they have a regedit (or simpler) to re-enable this feature. It shouldn't be so hard since the base code is now the same across platforms, right?

The reason why I like it is not because of tiles(annoyed i cant change the background colors anymore) but instead everything you install is alphabetically sorted in the second startmenu (the lil down arrow bottom left of the screen) which I find is missed by most 8/8.1 users hence the frustration against the new start menu. And then there's the simplicity of right click an icon and pin to start. I do still land up using the desktop more as my apps aren't metro "compatible" so I have my desktop apps, like you, on the taskbar... with saying that, i now remember never really using the start menu until windows 8.1(obviously some exceptions like accessories/control panel etc). I felt it too easily cluttered and disorderly

As far as desktop mode goes, the big change (for me) came in windows explorer: You can access everything selecting the folder/drive/computer and using the ribbon bar at the top. This has greatly improved the way I use the computers. I can't remember last time I even used the search function now that I know how\where to navigate in 8.1. But like you said, it wasn't all that different to 7

RE: Windows
By ipay on 8/21/2014 5:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
there is nothing stopping the average user from switching to Windows 8
In my personal experience, it hasn't been my tech friends (tech firm partner and software developer) who have been the most vocal against 8. It's been non-tech friends and family of all ages (28 to 65) who have railed against it; seriously pissed.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 5:28:21 PM , Rating: 2
I've had the exact opposite experience. All my non-tech friends and family that have used it love it, especially on tablets. The only people I know that complain are my techy friends.

RE: Windows
By w1z4rd on 8/22/2014 7:54:13 AM , Rating: 2
I'm a techy, and I love it. My mom, bless her TOTAL LACK OF COMPUTER SAVVYNESS soul, loves it too. She uses it on a laptop

We both hated 8, 8.1 came and was well loved

RE: Windows
By NellyFromMA on 8/22/2014 9:44:27 AM , Rating: 2

1) Initial snap judgements fostered by a lack of distinction between 8 and 8.1

2) Some people insist "Android and Linux are best" and will use any occasion to push that "fact" despite comparing Win 8 to Android as a mobile OS completely ignoring Win 8's desktop functionality as well as ignoring the actual fact that the majority of the consumer-market doesn't use Linux because its not beneficial for them to at all. That's when the conversation devolves into MS hate spew.

3) Old-school nerd insecurity

RE: Windows
By inperfectdarkness on 8/25/2014 10:47:12 AM , Rating: 2
I'm mainly just pissed that we JUST got 8.1 NOT THAT LONG AGO, and now we're supposed to "migrate" to 9. No thanks. 8.1, minus the lack of start-menu, is just fine. I think I'll keep it for another 5 years or until I can't use this PC any longer.

RE: Windows
By anothermax2 on 8/21/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By gurok on 8/24/2014 10:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
You're absolutely right. DOS 4.0 was so buggy, it wasn't even usable until they released DOS 4.1.

RE: Windows
By JasonMick on 8/21/2014 12:04:16 PM , Rating: 4
I love Windows 7 more than Windows 9 and it's not even out yet.
And what exactly is so great about Windows 7?

I can list a lot of annoyances with Windows 7, issues I've personally suffered through.

Hibernation USB Wakeup Firmware is Broken

It has buggy firmware on many laptops that cause issues with hibernation, such as waking up if USB mice are turned on EVEN IF you explicitly set the device to not be allowed to wake up from hibernation.

I've seen this on both ASUSTEK and MSI laptops using several USB mice brands (including Microsoft's in-house brand, ironically enough)

Zombie Restarts

Sometimes I'm doing work and leave it on overnight and Microsoft rolls out a patch and the computer reboots. Work is lost. I get you can modify this via registry tweaks, but c'mon this is a pain in the butt and a bad idea from the start.

I generally am fine with updating on a schedule, but when Microsoft throws an off schedule non-patch Tuesday update that I see nothing written about in the media, it's kind of hard to prepare for. I've learned to live with random restarts in my Windows 7 machines if you leave them idle overnight.

Broken Update Chains

I've had several instances of the Windows Update process breaking with Windows 7 ranging from moderate to severe. In one case a Windows Visual C++ update was incompatible with the updates that had been previously installed. This is turn made Microsoft Office 2010 unable to install. After trying futilely to work around, the end outcome and after a restore failed, I had to wipe and do a clean install. (And yes, I was working with Microsoft's service advisors both online and over the phone... they admitted sometimes the update process breaks for Windows 7 and a clean install is the only practical solution).

Windows 7's Start Menu is Dumb

Windows 7 is too dumb to update its Start Menu to include my list of most recently used programs... in many cases it preferentially ranks its own programs I almost never use (like Outlook). I'm forced to manually add and remove favorites.

Desktop Clutter

Also -- wow... most Windows 7 users, myself included have cluttered Desktops. Say what you will about Modern UI, but it certainly cuts down on Desktop clutter. Most Windows 8 users I've seen have been able to maintain relative order on the Desktops. It's a constant struggle for Windows 7.

Poor Battery Life, Boot Times

Also Windows 7's boot times and battery life are behind both Windows 8 and OS X. The boot times is particularly baffling as I've typically run Windows 7 on high-end gaming laptops have have removed any superfluous programs from the startup. Yet boot remains slow.

That said, I agree Windows 7 is usable and generally a good OS experience. But c'mon we get it -- you hate the Modern UI. Just come out and say it. But don't puff up Windows 7 to be this shining example of perfection, when it's overall a good OS, but in many ways just as flawed as OS X or Windows 8/8.1.

RE: Windows
By Spuke on 8/21/2014 12:27:25 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with Jason here and add the ONLY problem with Windows 8 is the GUI, the rest of it 1000% better than Windows 7. That said, the GUI is easily fixed with Start8 or updating to 8.1 (if you don't care about the Start Menu button so much).

RE: Windows
By menting on 8/21/2014 12:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly my thoughts. When people say they hate Windows 8, I ask them if they hate the UI, or the underlying OS. It's always the UI. Then I tell them I use Classic Shell to bring back the traditional desktop.

RE: Windows
By umrdyldo on 8/21/2014 12:41:18 PM , Rating: 2
My original post was sarcastic. Love 8 and some of the administrative features. Upgraded since day 1. Windows 9 will go on all my stuff if it's close to $15 like 8 was. Hell I got Windows 7 for free so I have done well on the last two upgrade cycles.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 1:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
Man, your first post REALLY needs a </sarcasm> tag then, because it definitely does not even remotely sound like it...

RE: Windows
By Arkive on 8/21/2014 4:20:03 PM , Rating: 2
The tag it needs is something akin to what happens on Slashdot when someone realizes no one has posted a comment yet and they lose the ability to say something useful.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 12:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
The reply is always some excuse - "OMG I don't want to have to install something that should already be included in the OS!"

And while that's a valid complaint - it should be - it's hardly a good excuse for passing on the improvements to the OS itself. Literally 30 seconds to install classic shell (which is indistinguishable from the Win7 start menu, and actually has MORE features), and never see metro again. But that's too much to ask.

I just call it a combination of laziness and people who have never actually used the OS.

RE: Windows
By DiscoWade on 8/21/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 5:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
You should check out OldNewExplorer, Glass8, and the "Aero 8.1" visual style. Those three, on top of ClassicShell, and you'd trick even the most diehard Win7 fanboys into thinking you were running Win7.

All are free (albeit Glass8 is unfortunately kind of nagware unless you donate for a license, but it's just a couple dollars).

RE: Windows
By w1z4rd on 8/22/2014 8:03:41 AM , Rating: 2
I posted some praise on 8.1 and totaly forgot about the whole local user issue. This is indeed an issue, it takes so long to setup the computer and its really difficult to setup that local account. I'm in total agreement, with that part of your comment only. Specially the whole fixing/system restore bit. I do support after hours and have only had 1 time where i used the system restore and it was a flawless experience. Win8.1 actually gives you the option(without 3rd party apps) to fully restore your computer, as in from the manufacturer. I used this and all the apps post install were still installed and still worked. i've never had an easier time fixing a very broken computer in my life

RE: Windows
By BennyTroves on 8/21/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By Scrogneugneu on 8/21/2014 8:53:49 PM , Rating: 2
I agree.

I remember reading up on the Win8 dev blog (go and look it up!) what the upcoming changes were. Every time a new post came up, it was great. People left good feedback, people were hyped, and so was I. I loved most (all?) changes they made.

Then one day, an came update about "Improvements in Windows Explorer". Namely, the ribbon was incorporated. About five times the normal amount of response were posted, vastly negative this time.

So much that they changed the system to limit the amount of comments. The following posts did not have as much feedback, and most were "this is nice (not like the ribbon, hint hint)". Then came an update about the Start menu and the Start screen. Once again a massive rampage went on, quite clearly against that change.

Then there was a post about "Reflecting on your comments about the Start screen". Which got EVEN MORE comments than the original one. Can you guess if they were positive ?

Moral of the story : Windows 8 is a great improvement over Windows 7, the only major roadblock is the UI. Microsoft set up a blog where they could show off early work and get feedback. And get feedback, they did. They did not act on it, and they released it to the world. The world is giving them the same feedback (who would have thought ?), so they're finally changing.

Case in point, one of the most awaited features for Windows 9 is the GUI fix.

RE: Windows
By w8gaming on 8/21/2014 11:20:16 PM , Rating: 2
it has been obvious from the start that a few people err on their own assumptions that Windows 8 should solely focus on touch UI and it was absolutely a good idea to emulate Apple on premium product strategy in order to be successful. I supposed many people in the dev team were reserved about such change but those few people got their voices heard and pushed through such change, disregard completely the feedbacks they were getting because look how successful Apple was.

that's why movie studio has learned to do test screening to judge how successful a movie is going to be. software companies should really learn to respect third party opinions.

RE: Windows
By hpglow on 8/21/2014 12:43:11 PM , Rating: 2
There was always (at least) one idiot in every college class that would claim they lost their homework to a faulty thumb drive. This was after the professor constantly warned people to backup their work to the campus z: drive and by emailing it to yourself.

That is what your complaint about zombie reboots reminds me of. Here is an exercise competent people do when they leave the office. Save and close all your software as you leave. Aside from zombie reboots there are things like power failure that can happen in the night.

I'm not picking on you because you write here you are just displaying a highschool slacker mentality by blaming MS for work lost.

RE: Windows
By Chaser on 8/21/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By anothermax2 on 8/21/2014 1:23:35 PM , Rating: 2
well windows 8 isn't going to make you any happier...does the same thing and %#$%@ me off. I have the reg hacks installed and it STILL does it.

RE: Windows
By Dreifort on 8/21/2014 1:17:42 PM , Rating: 2
If you put of restarting and updating the night before, the next morning you start to work on important stuff, leave to get a drink... your laptop goes to sleep. You wake your laptop for Windows to decided, ok I'm not waiting anymore - rebooting without asking. Data lost. Where is the irresponsibility in that chain of events? Microsoft.

RE: Windows
By amanojaku on 8/21/2014 1:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
No, that's YOUR fault for not saving your work, YOUR fault for not configuring the program to do autosave, and YOUR fault for configuring Windows to reboot without asking.

RE: Windows
By Dreifort on 8/21/2014 1:29:10 PM , Rating: 3
Not all programs offer autosave. If you're doing research and have 10 windows open for your research, leave for 5 mins and suffer a zombie reboot waking your laptop back up - you can't do anything to stop it without hacking windows.

Windows ask to reboot, I tell it to postpone. But if your computer is asleep or hibernation when postponed time happens, you're screwed.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 1:44:01 PM , Rating: 3
You guys are greavely overexaggerating this issue way out of proprtion.

1) You can configure Windows update to download but not install until you agree. Now you will never ever ever again get a zombie reboot. This works on Win7 too, and you never have to deal with the incredibly annoying "Postpone another 4 hours" popup.
2) On Windows 8, they give you a guaranteed 3 day notice before they reboot. It will not happen sooner than that, AND they guarantee that they will not reboot until you log back in to the computer, even after three days. It will not reboot unless you are actually logged in at the desktop.

But if you put off rebooting for 3 days,
then leave and dont lock your computer when you leave,
and your machine didn't go to sleep,
and your unlucky enough that windows chooses specifically that time to reboot...

Then you deserve anything you lost.

RE: Windows
By Dreifort on 8/21/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 2:56:45 PM , Rating: 4
That is literally my point - Did you even read what I wrote, or did you just massively fail comprehension?

Go configure Windows Update to "Download updates but ask me before installing" and now it revolves entirely around your schedule. You choose when to update, you choose when to reboot. no nags, no prompts, no zombie reboots, no losing work.

RE: Windows
By Solandri on 8/21/2014 7:46:22 PM , Rating: 2
Go configure Windows Update to "Download updates but ask me before installing" and now it revolves entirely around your schedule. You choose when to update, you choose when to reboot. no nags, no prompts, no zombie reboots, no losing work.

That's kind of a mixed bag. I've set customers' computers to "download updates but ask me before installing" after they've lost data due to a spontaneous Windows update-reboot. Next time I visit their offices 3 months later and... they haven't installed a single update since my last visit.

On the customers' computers where I leave automatic updates on, about a quarter, maybe a third of the tech support calls I get are for mysterious symptoms like network access stopped working. I get there, notice the updates have been installed but the computer is requesting a reboot. I reboot, and the problem goes away. The half-installed update was causing the problem.

I think we're all barking up the wrong tree. I think the problem isn't Windows updates. I think the problem is in the apps. When the app receives a force shutdown signal from the OS, they shouldn't close without saving data. Obviously they can't save to the same file, because the user may have wanted to preserve that original file. Instead, they should save the current open documents to a scratch file. The next time the app starts, it should open that scratch file. Presto - your app is restored to the exact state it was in before the shutdown. (Likewise, things like the clipboard should also be saved to a scratch file. Basically, a reboot shouldn't change the high-level state of the computer.)

RE: Windows
By Donkey2008 on 8/21/2014 10:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
What a bunch of bologna. Windows does exactly what it is told. Only poor admins blame Windows when it does something they do not comprehend.

Go configure a basic GPO to update computers on your networks. It takes 5 minutes and you'll have updates downloaded and installed at whatever time you like, and the system will only reboot if no user is logged in. If any user is logged in they will get a reminder to reboot at whatever interval you want. Set it for 3 days if you want. Set it for 5 years, whatever.

Security updates MUST be installed, so reboots are part of the process. This hasn't changed in forever. On the 2nd Wed of each month send out a reminder to users for them to reboot their computers before leaving work.

Done. No more drama about Windows Updates.

RE: Windows
By bigboxes on 8/21/2014 11:34:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, although I see no need to upgrade to Win8, Jason is right. I have updates set to download and to wait for me to install them. Despite this I get the occasional reboots in the middle of the night, exactly as Jason describes.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/22/2014 1:22:36 AM , Rating: 2
Then it's not from Windows Update, then. I've used Win7 for years and I never had that happen. EVER.

RE: Windows
By bigboxes on 8/22/2014 9:37:54 AM , Rating: 2
So, if it's "never happened to me" then it doesn't exist? Is that really what you're saying? It's documented and I'm saying that this happens on my machine. In the middle of the night. Exactly as Jason describes. It's due to Microsoft doing updates that for some reason can't wait until I choose to install them. I know exactly when they occur too. Sometimes I can go for close to three weeks without rebooting my pc. Then BAM! Microsoft, who had been nagging me to update, does it in my sleep early in the morning hours.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/22/2014 11:16:26 AM , Rating: 2
Then Yeah, I'm going to call you a liar, and tell you something else is rebooting your machine. Even if you choose "let me choose when to install", it will still install them on a reboot. I've used Win7 just as long as everyone here and this has never happened happened once across dozens of machines. But yet, somehow everyone else here has it happen all the time? I don't think so.

Three weeks is nothing. I know people, including myself, who have at times put it off for 3-5+ months at a time. Windows Update WILL NOT automatically reboot your PC for no reason.

RE: Windows
By bigboxes on 8/22/2014 3:48:28 PM , Rating: 2
Then I'll call you ignorant. Obviously, you are unable to unable to learn from others. You only know what you know. The hallmark of the close minded. It's not something else. It's Windows rebooting my computer when it's idle. That's it. Jason said the exact same thing. But hey, stick to your "it's never happened to me" mantra.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/22/2014 5:27:04 PM , Rating: 2
You can sit there and claim I'm using anecdotal evidence all day, but that doesn't change statistics. You can barely go three weeks without a Zombie reboot, but I've gone months. Something is obviously configured incorrectly on your end. Windows is rebooting, but it's definitely not from Windows Update. I, and everyone I know who do the same, have never had this issue.

But hey, if we want to play the "You're closed minded!" game, I'll call you closed minded for presenting your own experience as proof that it is a problem. You're failing to consider the possibility you're doing something wrong.

RE: Windows
By amanojaku on 8/21/2014 1:47:06 PM , Rating: 2
Why would the computer automatically reboot? Because you told it to install something. So turn that auto-install off. If Windows Updates are the reason your computer is rebooting disable automatic updates and do it manually, or set it for a time when you don't use the computer. Millions of computers world wide have figured out how to handle automatic reboots through configuration of the OS. Try using the Control Panel.

RE: Windows
By Dreifort on 8/21/2014 2:16:51 PM , Rating: 2
I've asked Microsoft the same question, "why would my computer reboot?"

If I postpone a system update reboot for 4 hours and my computer goes to sleep or hibernation and I wake it 6 hours later, I no longer have an option to postpone restart again - when computer wakes up, it reboots without asking.

Most pppl don't have 10 mins in their busy sched to restart their computer and wait for updates. Microsoft insists that critical updates be restarted with no option to restart manually on your own time and sched. So the computer will restart on its own if you are not at your computer to tell it "no" or if your computer happens to be asleep when the postponed restart time comes around. It's a big problem in the OS.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 3:00:10 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft insists that critical updates be restarted with no option to restart manually on your own time and sched. So the computer will restart on its own if you are not at your computer to tell it "no" or if your computer happens to be asleep when the postponed restart time comes around.

Yes, they do. It's been around for ages. It's called "Download updates but let me choose when to install." This let's Windows Update work around YOUR schedule. Do it whenever you actually have 10 minutes. Be that today, tomorrow, or 5 months from now. If you want to postpone critical updates that long, that's your choice. They're important, but so is your work. Make the tradeoff yourself.

It's a big problem in the OS.

No, it's not. It's a problem with people who are too lazy to go to control panel and change a single setting. 10 seconds tops to configure.

RE: Windows
By Donkey2008 on 8/21/2014 10:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
Amen inighthawki.

I am seriously in disbelief at the sheer stupidity I am reading from people about Windows Updates. Even a Daily Tech blogger cannot figure out how to configure Windows Updates? Mind blown.

RE: Windows
By HoosierEngineer5 on 8/21/2014 2:21:53 PM , Rating: 2
Since it's so common, why isn't it standard practice for the OS to notify the applications, then re-launch where you left off?

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 3:02:16 PM , Rating: 2
It is, actually. When automatically rebooting due to updates, Windows actually send a message to all the apps on the system. 99.999% of all programs out there just don't do it.

RE: Windows
By amanojaku on 8/21/2014 4:48:39 PM , Rating: 2
^Truth. I wish more people were as informed as you. I had no idea how poorly coded most Windows programs are until I started writing my own. MS provides a lot of tools that developers and users simply ignore.
Shutdown Notifications

Applications with a window and message queue receive shutdown notifications through the WM_QUERYENDSESSION and WM_ENDSESSION messages...

Blocking Shutdown

If an application must block a potential system shutdown, it can call the ShutdownBlockReasonCreate function.

RE: Windows
By inighthawki on 8/21/2014 5:31:23 PM , Rating: 2
That's the one. Would've linked to it myself but I forgot the name of the message. Thanks :)

RE: Windows
By zlandar on 8/21/2014 1:33:03 PM , Rating: 2
I know how to use it.

I hate the Windows 8 UI.

I don't need to reinstall Win 7 like Win XP because of performance degradation over time.

It's the most widely supported OS among personal and business PC users.

WMC is included in Win 7.

It's an OS. I need it to get the $%*#( out of my way and simply behave itself.

RE: Windows
By Spuke on 8/21/2014 2:04:46 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is not misbehaving, it works perfectly. Much better than ANY OS before it. The way it LOOKS might be questionable but it still works perfectly. Get over it already! I get productive work done daily on my Win8 machine. I love it and would never go back! Some of you guys act like basic users (hell maybe you are).

RE: Windows
By zlandar on 8/21/2014 2:51:24 PM , Rating: 2
I have not find any compelling reason to upgrade from Win 7 to 8. The biggest reason I upgraded from XP to Win 7 was because XP would always degrade over time without reinstalling the OS every 2-3 years.

Maybe that's Win 8's biggest problem: Win 7 was too good.

RE: Windows
By sadsteve on 8/21/2014 2:32:57 PM , Rating: 2
Hm, and I had not one of those problems with my Windows 7 install. Everyone seems to have different experiences with Windows installs.

I have a very fast desktop with lots of memory and an SSD as the OS drive. I had to use a stopwatch to determine that Windows 8 was a little bit faster than Windows 7 on bootup. Which, after all, is pretty irrelevant to me. The only reason I upgraded to Windows 8 was being able to go from a 'Premium' version of Windows to a 'Pro' version of Window for $40. I basically wanted to have the policy editor. If I hadn't been able to get a Start Menu replacement I'd have restored my Windows 7 backup to my machine.

The biggest complaint I have with Windows 8 (once I got a Start Menu replacement) is the removal of configuration for the graphics. I wasn't big into the 'bling' on Windows 7 but I did like 3d buttons, boarders and such. Makes it much easier to determine what is clickable and where one window starts and another ends. Being stuck with the flat look basically sucks.

RE: Windows
By bigboxes on 8/21/2014 2:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
I just built my wife a new pc. Installed Windows 7. Boots to desktop in 8 seconds. Messy desktop? I installed Rocket Dock and put here most used proggies on there. Also, added the quick launch toolbar for Firefox and IE. She's deliriously happy with her new machine. Lightning fast, ultra quiet and rock stable.

RE: Windows
By Donkey2008 on 8/21/2014 10:26:05 PM , Rating: 2
Is this post by Jason Mick a joke or is he being sarcastic? I can only assume it is sarcasm because you are saying that a techy cannot figure out how to set his Windows Updates to install manually or "Download but do not install"? For real dude? Maybe the problem is the zombie in the chair in front of the computer.

And saying that Windows 7 desktops are more cluttered than Windows 8 is THE most ridiculous thing I have ever read. So users of Windows 8 magically learn how to sort their icons, but Windows 7 users constantly struggle with it? Did you seriously type that out?

By far the most stupid and asinine post I have ever read complaining about Windows 7.

RE: Windows
By croc on 8/22/14, Rating: 0
RE: Windows
By synapse46 on 8/25/2014 11:55:27 AM , Rating: 2
The thing I miss most from Win7 is the recently used programs list. The menu system to launch a program in Win8 is cumbersome at best. I'll be thrilled to see any change with that.

We have experienced "zombie" restarts with server2012 lately, based off the same kernel, correct?

RE: Windows
By synapse46 on 8/25/2014 11:57:04 AM , Rating: 2
Also, updating Win8 out of the box is a somewhat painful and "broken" process.

"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs

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