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Apple observers noticed that CEO Steve Jobs' health dramatically decreased in 2008. Mr. Jobs reportedly has received a liver transplant and is currently recovering, eagerly awaiting a return to Apple at the month's end.  (Source: WSJ)
Apple's CEO and cofounder hopes to put his health problems behind him

Founding one of tech industry's biggest players -- Apple -- and personally turning the company around in the late nineties was nothing compared to the challenge that Apple CEO Steve Jobs faced in 2004.  Battling a rare and deadly form of pancreatic cancer, Mr. Jobs recovered thanks to surgery and reassumed his leadership role at the company, integrally helping to conceive, develop and release hit products such as the iPhone and MacBook Air.

Last year, though, many observers took note that Mr. Jobs looked sickly at public appearances.  Sure enough, in January of this year he took medical leave, announcing he would be gone from Apple on medical leave until the end of June.  In his absence Apple Chief Operating Officer Timothy Cook took over many of the day to day duties.

Now details of Mr. Jobs' medical battle, veiled in secrecy, have at last emerged.  According to a report by the Wall Street Journal Mr. Jobs received a liver transplant in Tennessee two months ago.  Mr. Jobs had earlier this year had relocated from California to Tennessee, a state known for having a shorter waiting list for organ transplants.  At the time Bloomberg had reported that Mr. Jobs was applying for a liver transplant.

Apple spokespeople contacted by the WSJ to seek confirmation of the sourced reports refused to comment, merely reiterating that Apple "continues to look forward to returning at the end of June, and there's nothing further to say."  According to the WSJ report, COO Cook may take over additional roles to help Mr. Jobs during his recovery.

Earlier this year it was discovered that Mr. Jobs was receiving hormone therapy.  Reportedly he was unable to digest food properly and receive nutrients.  The liver is an integral part of hormone production, and also produces bile, needed for digestion.  The liver is very sensitive to toxins, and can be damaged by chemotherapy, which Mr. Jobs likely received during his cancer treatment.

Liver transplant recipients have a 58 percent chance of surviving 15 years.  Liver transplants have been performed since 1967; the liver was the second organ to be successfully transplanted, with the kidneys being the first.

Mr. Jobs is currently 54.  Apple fans are eagerly awaiting his return, as he has always pushed the company and given it a creative spark.  Apple released its latest hot offering -- the iPhone 3G S -- this Friday.  Apple also announced new MacBook Pros, detailed its new OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard), and revealed Quicktime X.  Speculation has already begun that the company is preparing a major refresh to its iPod lineup for the fall.


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"You can observe a lot just by watching."
By crystal clear on 6/20/2009 12:11:50 PM , Rating: 5
"Health is better than wealth."




RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Totally on 6/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By mindless1 on 6/20/2009 1:07:16 PM , Rating: 1
So you're suggesting he was healthy in 2008?

Even with the successful surgery, 58% odds of 15 years isn't all that great, considering it also includes other recipients in better health and better able to recover and having a longer remainder of expected avg lifespan due to being younger.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By JKflipflop98 on 6/20/2009 1:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
That's the average. This guy has way more money than average.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By xphile on 6/21/2009 11:24:40 PM , Rating: 3
Average, below, or above average, none of it makes a damn difference if the man upstairs says your time is up, then that's it pal. All hed get for all that "wealth" is the best coffin money can buy, with the internal music being piped in from the latest ipod prototype that nobody's yet seen...


By Souka on 6/22/2009 5:41:47 PM , Rating: 3
Actually I suspect money will make him a better than %58 for 15yr survivability....given money being the only factor.

Plain simple truth... money does play an important part in receiving post transplant care. Those on just insurance are likely limited to what the insurance will pay for. Steve Jobs on the other hand, will likely seek better doctors...and medical care that the typical "joe-plumber" can have/afford...period.

This isn't for debate, it's just the cold hard truth.

My $.02


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Mitch101 on 6/20/2009 7:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Im betting he jumped ahead of someone else who needed a liver transplant. I hope he compensates and at least appreciates whomever might pass away needing a liver transplant that didn't get one so Steve could.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Samus on 6/20/2009 8:18:04 PM , Rating: 1
who's more important. joe bob from ford motors assembly line with 2 kids, or steve jobs, all mighty apple God?

that's for the liver to decide!


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Boze on 6/24/2009 12:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
Although you joke... I hate to be the hardened realist here... but the fact of the matter is, there are a lot of people alive on this planet today that could die tomorrow and in 100 years, its doubtful anyone will know they existed save for their tombstone.

I'm not saying Steve Jobs is the shining example of a life that I'd want to trade for another person's, but the simple fact is that as a species, some people are more important and useful than others.


By PandaBear on 6/29/2009 6:21:40 PM , Rating: 2
Steve Job is not more important that the other just because a few fan boy say so.


By icanhascpu on 6/21/2009 3:18:45 PM , Rating: 1
WHy would you people rate this kind of talk up? He's betting? Based on what? His hate for x corporation/the ceo? Give it a rest, its getting pathetic.


By Sunrise089 on 6/21/2009 9:44:20 PM , Rating: 2
Why should he compensate another prospective recipient even if this is true? Does Jobs have some obligation to the other people on the liver list? It's a simple matter of one saved life for another, but in this case if Jobs did something to "jump ahead" then perhaps the donor actually received some tangible reward.


By web2dot0 on 6/22/2009 7:04:33 PM , Rating: 3
You must be the same folks who thinks Rich people are all evil huh.
Everyone is entitled to gain wealth on equal footing. He wasn't born rich, so you had the same chance as Steve in making it to the top.

Give it up. Most rich people did something in their lives which made an impact on the society .... in a positive way. More than most ordinary folks. Get used to it.
There are always exceptions to the rule. You hear all this stories about rich folks abusing t heir power, which are true, but so are poor folks who rob and rape. It's no different.

The bottom line is until proven otherwise, he got the liver legit. What basis do you have to believe that he jumped the queue? Made he's been waiting for it long time ago and just recently "got to the top of the queue".

If he really wanted to "jump the queue", he could of easily got a liver in China or Russia anytime he wanted. It's obvious that he did not.

You're probably the same hypocrite that would jump the queue at a moment's notice if you had the same wealth.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By 91TTZ on 6/21/2009 9:44:27 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Even with the successful surgery, 58% odds of 15 years isn't all that great, considering it also includes other recipients in better health and better able to recover and having a longer remainder of expected avg lifespan due to being younger


Statistics like that are extremely misleading though. If a person gets a procedure that's normally performed on elderly people, the average lifespan after the procedure will be very low.

For example, if you were to find the average number of years that a person can expect to live after cataract surgery it'll probably be only a few years. That figure may scare a kid who needs the surgery. But that figure really has nothing to do with the surgery itself and more to do with the average age of people that get cataract surgery (mid 70's).


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By glitchc on 6/21/2009 11:51:26 PM , Rating: 1
Just one problem with your analogy: Nobody reports life expectancy with cataract operations. Cataract risks are associated with loss of sight, not loss of life. A liver, on the other hand, is associated with loss of life, same as a heart, as both are fundamental to survival.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By 91TTZ on 6/22/2009 9:22:00 AM , Rating: 2
Hence it being an analogy and not an actual example.


By glitchc on 6/30/2009 5:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
Well, it's a poor one since it has little relevance to the case at hand.


By myhipsi on 6/22/2009 11:02:53 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Statistics like that are extremely misleading though. If a person gets a procedure that's normally performed on elderly people, the average lifespan after the procedure will be very low.


Actually, age is less of a factor than you might think. The reason for these statistics is that people who receive organ transplants have to take a cocktail of anti-rejection drugs for the rest of their lives. These drugs effectively nullify your immune system, which makes you succeptable to many diseases, viruses, and bacteria that can easily kill you without a well fuctioning immune system. Not only that but there's always a chance of the organ being rejected by the body (even with the drugs). So that is why there is a 58% odds of 15 years with a liver transplant.


By robber98 on 6/20/2009 1:07:19 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
No but with wealth you can guarantee your health.

Joke of the day! Thanks!


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Quake on 6/20/2009 1:19:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No but with wealth you can guarantee your health.

Unfortunately, this is true in the US. If you're not rich, you'll be in deep shit (debt).


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By iFX on 6/20/09, Rating: -1
By bigboxes on 6/20/2009 6:57:16 PM , Rating: 2
He said please! LOL


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Quake on 6/21/2009 1:32:13 PM , Rating: 5
Why am I a troll? How many people had their loves one died on their hand because the insurance company didn't want to cover the surgery? How many people were in huge debt because of a surgery?

Rich people like Steve Jobs doesn't have a problem with that. But the common people do. Hence: "No but with wealth you can guarantee your health." is accurate.


By web2dot0 on 6/22/2009 7:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
The more accurate statement would be that wealth can increase you chances of better health when you get sick.

The oldest person on earth is not rich by any means or have any type of "special" treatment reserved only for the rich.

It's a known fact that some people have the generic makeup to live longer than others. No amount of money will change that .... yet.

It certainly helps if you live a healthy lifestyle and regular excersize.
No amount of money will change that. Just ask Oprah.

What it comes down to is equal access to health care and equal opportunities. Rich folks do have advantage in that area, but get used to it. It's a fact of life. It's not going to change.

What we are talking about now is the offset the balance so that the discrepancies aren't as large as it current system.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 4:58:55 PM , Rating: 5
Earlier this year I contracted Leukemia -- believe me, I'm the paragon of healthy living. I'm also successful (sadly without a wife and kids, I spent almost all my life being a workaholic).

Money has nothing to do with my health. I pay a whopping $95/mo for my *private* insurance plan which I found *myself*, after 90 minutes of research, over a decade ago and has nothing to do with my employer. The key however is to *buy it young* and never, ever get rid of it. It will be cheap, and most young people will not have any prior conditions for which they won't be covered. I think the roughest part is being older, having conditions, and being denied for them (which unfortunately happens, but most of the uninsured are young people). I can't figure out if that's fair, part of me thinks it's like throwing your phone in the toilet and trying to sign-up for an extended warranty so you don't have to pay for it (which is unethical), but the other part of me says that health is a heck of a lot more important...

I think the *real* problem is that young people (early 20s) think they're indestructible, and don't take advantage of the fact that everything is cheap at that age (health insurance, life insurance, disability, etc). The rate for someone in their early 20s is almost half what I pay (which is already less than my TV bill).

My odds at beating this disease are just the same as the next guy. I was nearly dead earlier this year -- a remarkable group of doctors saved me. However my long term odds are worse than Steve, but I intend to beat them. Likewise I hope he manages to survive for many decades. I would wish death due to cancer (or complications) on no one. After having lived through extremely high-dose chemo, those who haven't done it can have no comprehension how badly it sucks.

The long term result? My insurance carrier is going to be out a huge sum of money for saving my life, and I'll owe a small yearly deductible that doesn't even register on the radar compared to what they need to do to keep me healthy.

What I've learned about health care in this country is that you *have* to be assertive. There are phenomenal hospitals out there with amazing doctors. Unless you live in a huge city, more than likely none are nearby. You need to insist on getting referrals to the best doctors (hopping in the car and driving a few hours) and realize that all hospitals, and doctors, are not created equally. All the plans from Washington will never change that... It's impossible to make an average doctor a superior one. Medicine is just too intricate and not everyone is going to be leaders in their field.

Oh, and those same amazing doctors I found? They would have treated me if I was poor without insurance. Sure, the bills would have been huge. Easily pushed me into bankruptcy, but being alive is better than the alternative.

Anyway, before you go spouting off saying, "No but with wealth you can guarantee your health", take a minute to think that some very sick people (I was considered terminal before a last-ditch effort) read it and think it's poorly informed drivel.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By GaryJohnson on 6/20/09, Rating: -1
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 6:18:56 PM , Rating: 5
Bankruptcy is not socialism. In some cases it's people who spent too much and should have *never* been extended credit. Under our *modern* system it could be wealth-redistribution (because of the mortgage garbage and public bail-out, but this is a first-time). However, before the current meltdown bankruptcy losses were pretty much eaten entirely by private industry. That's why at-risk customers pay huge percentages for credit. All the other at-risk customers were covering each others' losses. People with good credit never had this problem because they get choice rates for their diligence. It's just like health insurance, if you're in a high-risk category, you pay more along with everyone else in the same boat (you cover each-other).

However some people end up in bankruptcy due to circumstances they can't control. I think it's utterly ridiculous not to have health insurance, especially if you're young and healthy. However if you get cancer, get wiped out... You can still get treated (the *same* as everyone else) but you'll end up destroying your credit in the process. Like I said, I'd rather take 7 years to fix my credit than be dead.

And believe me, I was one of those people who always used to say, "No health insurance? Screw em!" Then I got sick and have a lot more empathy. Heck if I were younger, I would have gone to med-school with the intention of going into hematology (I'm still considering applying if I make it through this).


By sprockkets on 6/21/2009 12:36:00 PM , Rating: 2
Please educate yourself as to where banks get the money in the first place. After you learn where it comes from, you will have no sympathy for a bank when it goes under.


By deltadeltadelta on 6/22/2009 2:12:03 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, show a little compassion.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By C'DaleRider on 6/21/2009 1:10:15 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Oh, and those same amazing doctors I found? They would have treated me if I was poor without insurance.


While I'm very happy you've had a good outcome, so far, from your CA, the above statement is just naive.

While you may think that, reality is that a poor patient without insurance wouldn't have even gotten into the office for the first appointment with that group of doctors.

Why? No insurance=not passing the gatekeeper in an MD's group....the office manager.

Now, it is possible for someone to see an MD or group without insurance, but only with a huge cash deposit. Without insurance or cash, you will get seen, but your choice of physicians and hospitals drastically reduces, almost to no choices at all.

And before you say "All talk and no experience," please allow me to give you my background. Entered the medical arena in the mid-70's...earned my RN then, continued my education to include an MS in Nursing. Have specialized in Critical Care (CCRN) and ER. Currently head nurse over the entire ICU/CCU/ER units of a moderately large hospital.

I've also, in my 3+ decades, have worked in private physician's offices, to include during the 80's for one of the most renowned pediatric cardiologists in the country as his nurse. Cannot tell you the times I was awoken at 1AM to meet him at a hospital because a 1 hr. old newborn had severe signs of a congential defect in its heart.

And after doing our initial consult with the infant, if the chart exam showed no insurance, the initial consult was completed and the family would be referred to the medical school/teaching hospital in the city.....and I assure you, the long term outcome for patients in the teaching hospital, getting treatment/care from residents, was nowhere as positive as having my MD's care.

And as for Jobs, moving to a state and suddenly being able to get a liver transplant, when he should have been last on the list for receiving one, just points out the fact that money does indeed buy health. With a few donations to the appropriate "causes," Jobs jumped to first in line and got his transplant well before others were able to.

So, please talk about what you know.....your good outcome with your disease. But please refrain from speaking to MD groups just seeing everyone and anyone no matter the amount of money the patient has, or without respect to having insurance. Just doesn't happen......no insurance, the standard of care you'll receive just dropped to almost third world standards.


By ChristopherO on 6/22/2009 1:42:27 AM , Rating: 2
I think reality is somewhere in between your post and what I mentioned in a prior message. Not every hospital is equal, nor is every physician. For that matter I have no idea what state you live in, but all the laws are different.

Also, the teaching hospital in your city might not be as good as a private institution, but generally if I pick any major city in the US, the teaching hospital(s) in that city are always superior to anything else. Many/most seem to be public, which was a huge surprise since I'm a "pro free market" guy and I assumed private would beat public by a huge ratio... Instead state med-schools generally seem to have the best care with the big-name private schools mixed in. Almost none of the best appear to be traditional, non-teaching, private hospitals.

http://health.usnews.com/sections/health/best-hosp...
(compiled by 3-year statistics of doctor/peer surveys)

I still stand by my assertion that you could still get comparable care sans insurance, -- because the ER and clinics at public hospitals won't deny treatment (even those same top-notch places in the US News section). For example, another young guy down my street went to M.D. Anderson, without being covered, and they saved his life. I'm not blind, I think a person without insurance will have huge hurdles to cross, but I think those can be overcome with assertiveness.

As for Jobs. I think it's totally unfair to assume money had anything to do with it. His case could have been critical (he literally was wasting away in photos) and he could have been bumped ahead of all those people who had much longer to live. As someone else said (med student below), livers tend to have a shorter waiting period than other organs. Plus he was physically in a state that had fewer organ recipients, which made getting a quick match much easier.

He is fortunate enough to pick up his life, move to the state most likely to have high availability of transplants. I wouldn't say wealthy people get better care, but wealthy people can go out of their way to find it (without risking career, etc).

Anyway, I'm willing to give Jobs a pass and assume everything was above-board. If reporters discover this was a corrupt shambles, then I'll be the first person to be upset.

Why am I giving him a pass? We're in the same fraternity. No one wants to be in the cancer club, but I choose to think that facing death makes someone turn to faith and find goodness.

Is that naive? Perhaps, but I still don't know if I'm going to make it. Rather than dying a cynic, I'd prefer to believe that good people win, and the will to live will beat unbeatable odds. Insured, not insured... I don't think it matters as long as you fight like heck to stick around.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By 67STANG on 6/20/2009 1:47:42 PM , Rating: 5
I'm assuming the hospital charged him triple for the 32gb model of the liver he got, over the standard 16gb model liver?

Seriously, my Dad has been on the liver transplant "list" for 7 years now... I guess the fact that Steve Jobs is a multi-gazillionaire shot him to the front of the list. Not really fair, as my Dad isn't a nut job.

What a load of crap.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Lord 666 on 6/20/2009 2:37:27 PM , Rating: 2
His medical team shopped around for a state with the shortest wait time for liver transplants... in this situation it was Tennessee. From WSJ.com,
quote:
The specifics of Mr. Jobs's surgery couldn't be established, but according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which manages the transplant network in the U.S., there are no residency requirements for transplants. Having the procedure done in Tennessee makes sense because its list of patients waiting for transplants is shorter than in many other states. According to data provided by UNOS, in 2006, the median number of days from joining the liver waiting list to transplant was 306 nationally. In Tennessee, it was 48 days.


http://mobile2.wsj.com/device/article.php?mid=&CAL...

My father was recently diagnosed with metastatic melanoma. Good news is they caught the skin cancer, bad news is the metastatic part of the illness spread to his liver. The same debate for Jobs applies to my father; traditional school of thought liver transplants are mostly palliative with little proof it actually extends life. For my father's situation, median survival is 6-12 months with 9-15% chance of survival after five years.

Sorry to hear about your father and hope Mr. Jobs experience will give direction on how to reduce the wait list for him.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By 67STANG on 6/20/2009 4:22:59 PM , Rating: 5
Sorry to hear about your Dad too. My dad contracted Hepaptitis C by handling contaminated inmate day-labor tools/supplies at a prison he worked at. He was immediately put on the national transplant list after it was discovered he couldn't take interferon treatments-- they almost killed him.

He wasn't supposed to last this long, but he holds out hope for a transplant. I cannot help him because I have an incompatible blood type.

He's tried looking nationally for a transplant, but he's been told over and over that there are others in front of him. Perhaps Mr. Jobs was on the list longer than my Dad, but that's highly unlikely. Instead, he flashed the cash and got priority. I suppose that if I were in his shoes, I'd do the same. Just sucks for everyone else.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 5:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
Hey guys... I'll keep all your family members in my prayers. My story is above, unfortunately I dealing with cancer.

My heart goes out to all of you (67stang, lord, anyone else in the same boat). No one should have to put up with diseases that require transplantation.

I'll be getting a marrow transplant in a few weeks.

quote:
Instead, he flashed the cash and got priority.


All I have to say is *please* don't be so cynical. Organ transplantation, marrow, etc, is phenomenally complicated. I got lucky because I'm a pure-bred ethnicity, which actually made finding a donor much easier. In essence I skipped way ahead of other people, but that's just because my circumstances made that possible (not money, but DNA tissue typing was easier). I also lucked out because I am type-O blood, so the pool of donors was much bigger. After my transplant I'll change to a rare blood type (you can do that with *only* marrow transplants), which is unfortunate since if I need *another* one years from now, I'll be in a really precarious situation.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that I'm sure your dad is getting the best care possible. I know it's rough, but hang in there and keep a brave face. Trust the physicians -- most are really good people, and usually the bad ones seem to be pretty self-evident. Don't be afraid to talk to others. Most doctors want to be doctors because they love helping others. And they also like informed patients. Don't be afraid to read-up and ask them questions.

Hang in there. Both of you.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Lord 666 on 6/20/2009 6:05:57 PM , Rating: 2
We were hoping that my recently born child's cord blood could have helped out, but my father's current provider said it wouldn't help for this type of CA.

However, kicking myself in the arse because the newborn is Type O negative. We debated about harvesting the cord blood, but figured the second one would have A+ like parents and older sibling. Could have been potentially extremely useful in the future and we should have done it anyway, maybe for the third kid ;)

Just curious, you didn't say if you were O- or O+. O+ represents the majority of American's second by A+. O- is about 7% with the most uncommon being AB negative.


By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 6:31:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm presently O+, after my donor I'll end up being A+. For reasons of medical privacy I know virtually nothing about the person, but they are female, young, and in good health. I also have a 10/10 match (oh, and they found multiple 9/10s just in case), so I've got the best odds possible. My transplant coordinator was laughing and said, "With female marrow perhaps you'll understand why women like getting flowers." I was also considered an extremely high-priority since I have acute leukemia and have severe genetic mutation of my stem cells (so it will eventually come back and kill me without a transplant, even with a transplant my 5-year odds are 50/50 at best).

It seriously makes me tear up when I think a young woman is going to have a permanent scar from getting a central line. She won't have to endure invasive surgery (like the old days), but it is going to be traumatic nonetheless. I just hope she signs the form that will consent to release her identity (you can do that after one year). I'd feel awful if someone saved my life and I couldn't even send her flowers, or fly out and meet her. I'm an only child, so I guess this has restored some of my faith in the goodness of other people (I was much more of a cynic before this).

Anyway, for marrow donation, blood type doesn't matter (as long as it's compatible). I can get A+ stem-cells since my "O" blood will still be compatible (in essence I donate blood to myself). However my odds for finding an A or AB donor will be vastly less. I had an 85-90% chance now, but will have only a 10-25% chance if I need another donor due to a relapse.

Marrow donation is also slightly different than others in that you need a DNA match to ensure survivability. It sounds like all the organs only require protein and blood type matches. I'm obviously not a physician, but I've had a crash course in all of this since early February (my diagnosis date).


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 7:01:49 PM , Rating: 2
Oh and congrats on the new baby! Totally slipped my mind before.

Cord blood is a remarkable thing... They can actually use it for marrow transplants for kids, or even adults provided you can get two kids who are are identical twins with identical DNA markers. If you happen to bank the cord-blood, there is always a chance the National Marrow Registry will be contacting you about donating it in the future.

One of the things that bug me is that the marrow registry has the worst set of publicists ever. Most people think donation is surgical, whereas it's basically like giving platelets. You need to get a central line, which can leave a scar, but the procedure is fairly simple. 6 days of injections to build-up stem cells, then they filter them out via IV, pull the line, and you're done. Adding yourself to the registry only takes a mouth swab. The cost to add is $50 (to cover some of the costs), but donating costs nothing since the recipient (i.e. me) has to cover everything.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By DrLudvig on 6/21/2009 6:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
Well, not trying to be a pessimist here, but the thing about the donation not being surgical, but just the hole central line thing, is not quite true in every case.
I recently received a Bone marrow transplant myself, using a donor from the USA (i'm from denmark) and that was done with no less than 42 stings in the hip of the donor (though only 6 external)..
But yeah, in some cases, they can do it IV, but in some cases it has to be done surgical aswell. So i'm just happy my donor agreed to actually being hospitalised for several days, and being stung so many times, because that has to be painfull for him aswell. And i really hope he will sign the papers so i can get in contact with him, because it's no small thing to do!
But wow, i'm kinda glad we have those taxes we have here, which allows me to get this entire treatment at no cost at all, and with all extra expenses being paid by the state..
And for those who are getting a bone marrow transplant, just keep positive! I've had no complications whatsoever since my transplant (+1 year now) so just keep fighting (:
Ps, sorry for my english, as said i'm Danish.


By ChristopherO on 6/21/2009 11:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
Congrats on your continued health... I'm glad to hear all went well! True, surgical donations still occur, but here in the US it seems to be an exception and almost everything allogeneic is done by stem cells (a lot of things can require marrow donation, so every disease might be different). I don't know the percentages off the top of my head but they did say that surgical procedures can still occur when needed.

The stem cell route (if I understand) for the donor is 6 days of GCSF shots (Neupogen), central line, then stem cell extraction via IV filtering (like platelet donation), then remove the line. The doctors might have simplified the process for me since I have "my own issues" (so to speak)... I'm grateful someone is doing it, and I am just trying to focus on what I need to get through. I hope she signs the forms because it would be really interesting to share experiences.

Also, good luck getting donor permission! I think I would go nuts if someone saved my life and I couldn't thank them.


By FaaR on 6/20/2009 10:03:25 PM , Rating: 2
Your dad may belong to a blood/tissue type that is more uncommon than Joe Bob's...sorry, Steve Job's. :P

It's not neccessarily a conspiracy if some other guy gets served before long-waiting people; organ donor lists aren't like the waiting line at your local Micky D; if they just put the first liver they got into the first patient in line, not only would the liver most likely be wasted, but the patient deader than a Norwegian Blue as well...


By sprockkets on 6/21/2009 12:40:33 PM , Rating: 2
Steve Jobs has lots of disciples more than willing to sacrifice their liver for him.


By icanhascpu on 6/21/2009 3:27:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Mr. Jobs had earlier this year had relocated from California to Tennessee, a state known for having a shorter waiting list for organ transplants.


Maybe you should try a different state?


By sleepeeg3 on 6/22/2009 11:45:26 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately, it would be no different under a communist system. Waiting list would be far worse, government would control who lives and dies, their buddies in politics would get to go to the head of the line, and bribes for underpaid doctors would be common.


RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By crystal clear on 6/20/09, Rating: 0
RE: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
By Totally on 6/21/2009 12:05:38 AM , Rating: 1
AIDS!!!! you seriously came at me with AIDS!!!? I can level with you if contracted from a freak accident at the workplace, unfortunately born with it, or raped. I'm pretty sure is easy as breathing to not get aids.

CANCER - most types of cancer can be avoided

CARDIAC FAILURE - unless it's an inherited issue no excuses here, as this is usually a symptom of another condition. excercise

[INFERTILITY, IMPOTENCY & MORE such horrific illnesses.]<------ I love that! ripe for picking out of context, I'll be laughing at that line for days. 1-800-GO-ADOPT.

Hey, I would not have made that comment if I had realized so many people would have gone apes**t over something I find so trivial. My outlook does still stand however in that being wealthier than thou does put you in a better position than someone who is of a lesser financial standing insurance or not. I'm pretty sure insurance policies don't come crack medical teams standby ready to scour the nation should you come down with the sniffles.


By crystal clear on 6/21/2009 3:31:51 AM , Rating: 2
If I have hurt your FEELINGS the I regret it - My apologies to you.

I wish you the best of health & happiness.

Just a plain discussion - nothing personal against you.

Lets close there.


By callmeroy on 6/22/2009 8:52:06 AM , Rating: 1
I know I'll take the hit and show as "1" for replying to this guy but that remark he made is one of the dumbest I've read in literally weeks. Wealth can gaurantee health? How are you defining health in that statement --- existance? Not being dead?

All the money in the world does nothing for your health unless you are smart about your lifestyle --- eat right, exercise, plenty of sleep, control your use (or eliminate them completely ) of "sin" products (ie. tobacco/alcohol).

Wealth doesn't guarantee health......naturally (as in all cases) wealth makes things much nicer , perhaps easier to attain but our health condition is largely in our own hands poor or rich.


By finbarqs on 6/21/2009 12:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
You know, I knew a guy who had a liver transplant. After the transplant, he only lasted a year and a half before he kicked the bucket. Something about his body rejected the transplant, which is pretty common in liver transplants.


good luck to him
By TSS on 6/20/2009 11:53:50 AM , Rating: 1
Say about Apple what you want as a company, Steve Jobs remains one of the more creative minds on this planet, as well as an big influance within the tech industry.

My best wishes to him and his family and i hope he gets better to live another decade or 3.




RE: good luck to him
By Goty on 6/20/2009 12:13:30 PM , Rating: 1
I agree wholeheartedly.

As for the liver transplant, I have many friends and family who have gone through the procedure and they are all doing just fine, so hopefully Mr. Jobs does just as well.


RE: good luck to him
By geekfool on 6/20/2009 2:36:58 PM , Rating: 4
I think it was a waste of a good liver. Even ignoring the terrible business practices that he helps perpetuate, you still have to take into account that the guy was diagnosed and treated for pancreatic cancer, and that it makes logical sense to assume that whatever was wrong with his liver was probably catalyzed by the cancer. Sure, they can give him a new one, but how long before some of his other organs start failing for the same reason? How long until the new one succumbs to the same factors that destroyed his original liver? His prognosis was poor to begin with, and I think it's unlikely that this liver transplant is going to be the end of his health issues. I think a better use could have been found for the donor liver.

Now I'm not saying he should have been inelligible for the transplant, just that his pre-existing issues should have been considered when deciding who to assign the donor organ to. If there were other patients on the list who needed transplants and who didn't have serious pre-existing issues like pancreatic cancer, they should have gone first, because they would have better odds of long-term survival. And if there were no other patients on the list with better chances of long-term survival, then by all means give the liver to the guy with pancreatic cancer. But in any other case doing so is just wasteful. You're potentially cutting another patient's life short by a decade or more so that a less suitable candidate can have theirs extended by a handful of years.


RE: good luck to him
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 7:29:00 PM , Rating: 5
As someone in queue for a donation... This is a misinformed post. Everyone who needs an organ, or marrow, needs it for some extenuating circumstance. Unless you're very old, rarely do organs spontaneously fail. Liver failure due to chemo is not uncommon. Depending on the protocol he received, it could totally destroy either the liver or the kidneys, it's also possible for last-ditch breast cancer treatment to destroy bone marrow. Many people in queue for liver transplants are cancer patients who received chemo and/or radiation. Also, beyond a certain age, you'll be automatically disqualified (so a lot of older people who need organs would never receive them because their life expectancy just isn't that long regardless).

Also, don't presume he received favorable treatment. Matching organs is difficult... The reason he received a liver so soon could be entirely due to the fact that his protein and blood markers made it easy. Put it this way, if you're blood type AB, you're going to wait darn near forever and almost *everyone* is going to line-jump ahead of you. If you're O+ then you have a much greater chance of finding a match (and the process isn't that simple, it requires other factors to be a good match).

And believe me, based on the way a transplant committee works, they aren't going to consider you for transplant unless you're showing full cancer remission. If he went to Tennessee he was probably treated at Vanderbilt -- world class medical institutions rarely compromise their integrity. They would destroy their reputations in the process and the malpractice would be staggering. It's also totally wrong to assume he was anything other than the best recipient. Unless you have an MD and know his exact circumstance (and aren't telling) you have no right to decide who lives and dies. Pardon me for being so sensitive on the subject, but for obvious reasons it's quite personal.


RE: good luck to him
By Snow01 on 6/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: good luck to him
By ChristopherO on 6/21/2009 1:30:45 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
O blood type is a universal donor, not acceptor. AB is a universal acceptor.


Yep, that's true. However you have it totally backwards... I never said I'm a solid organ recipient, just going to be a marrow recipient.

I can get A positive marrow because the blood in my organs is O positive. Thus I actually donate my old O-blood to my "new" marrow and type (type matching is not necessary with marrow donations, only high resolution DNA, provided you don't go the wrong way on the type-classification).

However, you can't put A blood in an O body. Meaning I can't get O marrow *if* I already had A marrow to begin with. Because all the blood in your system would already be type-A. Meaning an A blood type has a heck of a lot harder chance at finding a marrow donor than an O. AB is of course the worst since you can only use an AB marrow donor.

For example, if I were to go from A marrow (my new type) back to O (my old type), my organs would be flooded with new O blood. As soon as the new marrow, "O" started producing blood, I'd clot and die since the A type already present in the organs would kill me. A can't donate blood to O, as you said.

Essentially marrow donation flips the rule. Yes, you are correct that an O organ could go to any blood type (but generally wouldn't except in the most extreme cases since type and cross is important and some people still have an allergic reaction to an off-type they should in theory be able to accept). The only exception to this rule is platelets -- you can accept any type since it doesn't follow the same rules as hemoglobin, however you can still have a reaction and destroy off-type platelets but they wouldn't be fatal.

Your conspiracy theories are admirable but untrue. How about you accept the fact there can be sick 30-somethings in the world and sometimes crappy happens? Do you think I'm happy to have this disease? Are you kidding me? I went into the hospital in early February with a WBC count of 70, where 90% of the count were blast cells. I had a sinus infection for 3 weeks and thought I needed antibiotics. Instead I had cancer.


RE: good luck to him
By inperfectdarkness on 6/20/09, Rating: 0
RE: good luck to him
By FaaR on 6/20/2009 10:12:19 PM , Rating: 2
Your AVERAGE car-dealer most certainly could not. The best car-dealers on the planet likely could, if they had the right education and an interest in the tech industry.

You just don't get to head a multi-billion multi-national corporation by slipping into the CEO chair on a banana peel, it takes a certain mindset and intelligence. Sometimes knowledge too, but not always. :P

Jobs is by many accounts a complete egomaniac, but average...that he definitely is not. ;)


RE: good luck to him
By Spivonious on 6/20/2009 12:35:06 PM , Rating: 2
He's a marketing genius, but creative? He's not really involved in the product design.


RE: good luck to him
By eddieroolz on 6/21/2009 1:04:08 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, and guess who came up with designs of computers and such, the engineers at Apple. No one credits them, and it's a shame how Jobs takes all the credit.

He's just the marketing mastermind. Yes, that iPod commercial you see? That's orchestrated by him. Not the products.

Besides, 3 more freaking decades of evil, monopolistic company that shouldn't even be here in the first place, had the law of natural selection kicked in. I'd rather not live in that world.


Best wishes to Steve...
By Cape Consultant on 6/20/2009 2:26:22 PM , Rating: 4
I am at the other end of the pay scale. Made maybe 25K last year. If you think they would be in a big rush to give ME the last kidney available when Mr. Jobs wanted one also, you got another think coming.

It is sometimes what makes this country great like unbounded opportunity that also makes it kind of tough.

Hey, I could move to another country anytime, but I haven't yet :)

Because I still have my dreams.

Again, good luck Steve.




RE: Best wishes to Steve...
By ChristopherO on 6/20/2009 8:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
Trust me... Don't be cynical. There are some smarmy institutions and doctors out there, but that's the rare exception and not the rule (and it's almost never the best hospitals since their reputation matters). You would get a transplant just like the next guy, provided something else wasn't threatening you at the time. Perhaps you'd be a lower priority than someone else if you had 10 years to live and they had 6 months, but the committees responsible for transplants need to make that call.

If you truly care about your life, your doctors will care about your life. The sad thing, you wouldn't believe how many people throw in the towel... And yes, psych profile goes into transplant worthiness (it's almost important as your health). The reason? A transplant recipient has a *lot* of ongoing care, if they aren't fully committed to the a life-long commitment, they won't get an organ.

That being said, I'm sure Jobs will make a huge donation wherever he went. Why? If someone saves your life, you'll be eternally grateful in whatever capacity you can manage. I wouldn't consider it a quid-pro-quo. And besides, that cash could go to save hundreds of other lives.

Frankly I wish Jobs would just retire from Apple and join Lance Armstrong in the fight against cancer. Someone like Jobs could do for cancer what Gates is doing for AIDS in Africa. Apple also seems to be doing okay without him at the helm.


RE: Best wishes to Steve...
By dagamer34 on 6/21/2009 6:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
Incorrect about the psych profile. I had a med school lecture a couple of weeks ago about what all goes into who gets what organ and the transplant service does NOT consider factors like that (crazy, I know). They also don't consider how you got to be in the condition you are in either, or whether you were an alcoholic in your past life or not, or your ability to adhere to treatments.

Now, before you go spouting how wrong that is, there is a "flip side". While the transplant service that determines who gets an organ does NOT consider those things, the actual surgeon who DOES the procedure can (though it is more in relation to "I'm not going to do a transplant on you because you won't follow through with the after-transplant therapy" rather than the belief that a person is "bad").

Also, liver's aren't as in demand as kidneys. You can survive without any working kidneys for a while, but with the liver, you only have ONE. And it's quite easy to kill your kidneys (which is why they are in such high demand).

Other things to point out:
1) Average wait for a kidney is about 1-2 years.
2) Average wait for a liver is a couple of months.

Plus, there's also a whole host of factors that goes into figuring out who gets what organ or not. It's not as simple as because you've waiting for X period of time, you are going to get one.


RE: Best wishes to Steve...
By ChristopherO on 6/21/2009 10:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
Interesting. I had a social worker do a psych workup for me (required prior to transplant), but if it doesn't go into a committee decision, I have no idea what they do with it... Unless it's literally to determine if I'll need psychiatric services to keep me "positive".

Granted my procedure isn't surgical -- but it requires a live and consenting donor. Unless the profile is necessary to make sure they don't endure any unnecessary risk for a crazy patient? Livers from dead organ donors don't really have that issue. Odd... But then again a lot of medicine is different than I would expect.


Steve
By dnd728 on 6/20/2009 1:53:37 PM , Rating: 2
Sheds a whole new light on this crazy replaceable parts idea, won't you say?




RE: Steve
By lallalie on 6/20/2009 5:05:30 PM , Rating: 2
The not so distant future (at least for the wealthy) is to have as a transplant a neoorgan grown from you own stem cells (no rejection) on a biodegradable 3D scaffold promoting through the 3D position of the progenitor cells the signaling pathways instructing further cell differentiation. See here to have a glimpse of those technologies http://singularityhub.com/2009/06/08/growing-organ...

On a broader perspective, Steve Jobs should actively promote transhumanism, he is a good candidate for over human achievement ;-)


RE: Steve
By foolsgambit11 on 6/20/2009 8:59:46 PM , Rating: 3
Livers aren't user-replaceable, why should batteries be?

Bad taste?


Spare parts!
By ertomas on 6/20/2009 2:24:16 PM , Rating: 5
I'm guessing he now knows how does iPod/iPhone owners feel when their batteries crap out and can't replace them on their own!




WTF?
By zinfamous on 6/20/2009 11:45:54 PM , Rating: 2
So is it not true that cancer patients are restricted from receiving organ transplants?

This sounds....shady.




RE: WTF?
By ChristopherO on 6/22/2009 5:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
Many cancer patients are recipients because of what I said above. Organs typically don't fail by themselves unless you're really old (in which case you couldn't get a transplant anyway), but chemo and cancer can kill them off. I don't know the exact percentages, but it wouldn't surprise me if most organ recipients were the result of cancer (in some way or another). A doctor would need to comment on the rest, I suppose trauma patients are in there, those with rare chronic illnesses, etc. If you're needing an organ, you're inherently extremely unhealthy and have other problems.

They aren't going to give you an organ if you still have active cancer, but if you're in remission they'll do it since the cancer is probably the reason you need it (Jobs' case), or chemo/radiation might have destroyed it... The exception is marrow, since marrow donation is actually the only possible remedy to certain blood cancers. As a result, most people needing marrow donations have active cancer, there are also other diseases which can require marrow, but those aren't as common as leukemia or lymphoma.


Don't really care
By SiliconAddict on 6/21/2009 1:18:00 AM , Rating: 4
Ok to be frank I care as much as I would care if my coworker from another office in another state had a serious illness. Seriously. He's just another private citizen who makes a shit load of money and knows how to sell people on devices that look spiffy, but have a lack of feature. I wish him the best. I will pray for him. However at the end of the day, again, I don't care about Steve iWalkoniWater Jobs. The man has created a user based around being arrogant elitist pricks. Why should I care about some who has done such a thing?




"Death Is Very Likely The Single Best Invention Of Life" -- Steve Jobs














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