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Apple's smartphone gravy train continues to come in

It looks as though Apple has another his on its hands with the iPhone 5. The company announced last week that it secured 2 million sales for the iPhone 5 within the first 24 hours of pre-order availability. Today, Apple is reporting that it sold over 5 million iPhone 5s during its launch weekend.
 
“Demand for iPhone 5 has been incredible and we are working hard to get an iPhone 5 into the hands of every customer who wants one as quickly as possible,” said Apple CEO Tim Cook. “While we have sold out of our initial supply, stores continue to receive iPhone 5 shipments regularly and customers can continue to order online and receive an estimated delivery date. We appreciate everyone’s patience and are working hard to build enough iPhone 5s for everyone.”
 
The 5 million mark surpasses the record set by the iPhone 4S last year, which recorded launch weekend sales of over 4 million units.

 
The iPhone 5 was first made available in the United States, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and the United Kingdom. Sales will extend to 22 additional countries on Sept. 28 and will surpass 100 countries by the end of 2012.
 
Apple also announced that iOS 6 is now installed on over 100 million mobile devices.

Source: Apple



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Proof positive...
By Motoman on 9/24/2012 9:47:37 AM , Rating: 5
...of everything I've ever been saying.

Apple consumers are utterly uninterested in the product in and of itself...the fact that it's clearly inferior to other products on the market makes not the slightest amount of difference.

Put dog crap in a box and call it the iPhone 6. 5 million Macolytes will line up for days to buy it at launch for any amount of money you ask for it. If the Samsung GS4 cured cancer, printed money, and assigned you your own personal supermodel sex slave, the Apple faithful would still buy the crap-in-a-box.

The only company that can bring Apple down is Apple. Religions don't end until someone passes out the kool-aid.

For the rest of us, at least the Macolytes make themselves easy to identify...when someone walks up to you covered in iThings, you know to expect a vapid discussion.




RE: Proof positive...
By Dr of crap on 9/24/2012 9:58:10 AM , Rating: 1
Yea well you-know-who will tell us that since it sold so many so fast that is MUST be the best thing EVER!

Right! Mr S. ?


RE: Proof positive...
By tayb on 9/24/2012 10:15:08 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple consumers are utterly uninterested in the product in and of itself...the fact that it's clearly inferior to other products on the market makes not the slightest amount of difference.


Is that why the iPhone 5 is quite literally blowing the competition out of the water in performance benchmarks? Check the Anand performance preview. The GS3 looks like a bum.

Benchmarks aren't everything and there are plenty of Android phones with more impressive overall hardware (NFC, larger screens, etc) but the iPhone 5 is no slouch.


RE: Proof positive...
By agent2099 on 9/24/2012 10:42:01 AM , Rating: 5
To be fair, how many of those 5 million people know about those benchmarks. I'd wager less than 10%.


RE: Proof positive...
By Kurz on 9/24/2012 11:12:57 AM , Rating: 2
Take off the 0 and you'd be in realistic territory.


RE: Proof positive...
By xti on 9/24/2012 11:17:54 AM , Rating: 2
being top dog in benchmarks dont matter cept to geeks. that last 10% performance just doesn't matter when every product now a days is a luxury.

i mean...gas guzzling cars seem to sell just fine. people on here need to realize they are the minority..and just because it looks superior on paper, really doesn't capture the whole picture.


RE: Proof positive...
By Spuke on 9/24/2012 12:01:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
people on here need to realize they are the minority
BAM! I used to say this all the time but people here don't get it. Regular people don't care or even know about benchmarks, specs or any of that. ONLY geeks care about that. Right now, Apple is the shiny, new product of the moment. It's hip to own one. it will continue to be so until it isn't then people will move on to something else.


RE: Proof positive...
By geddarkstorm on 9/24/2012 12:04:04 PM , Rating: 2
You're absolutely right. Market perception is a powerful thing.


RE: Proof positive...
By xti on 9/24/2012 2:33:41 PM , Rating: 2
otherwise....samsung wouldnt be making commercials...

** Drops mic and walks off stage **


RE: Proof positive...
By EnzoFX on 9/24/2012 5:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
Idiocy. They may not know it's the fastest, but of course they will appreciate the speed. Performance empowers devs. They will of course appreciate things loading faster, they are not blind. They will of course appreciate better apps that make use of that performance. The hatred here is just blind. Nothing but ignorance.


RE: Proof positive...
By aharris02 on 9/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Proof positive...
By Spuke on 9/24/2012 12:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it doesn't matter because Apple's userbase as a whole doesn't care about benchmarks?
No, the point is that NO ONE outside of us geeks cares!!!


RE: Proof positive...
By euclidean on 9/24/2012 12:15:06 PM , Rating: 2
Woah...hold up a second.

In previous Android releases, when "benchmarks" were used, Apple fans always stated "the iPhone was released X months ago, of course something released today will perform better...".

So, when it comes full circle, ??

I would agree with you though, it can be irritating listening to it from both sides.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 1:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
Apple does always use good chips. I commend them for that, but the S4 with Adreno 320 is coming, as well as OMAP5, and a new gen Exynos, so those things will come and go. As for things that really matter...

Todays Android advantages
- Larger Screens
- Higher resolution screens
- Better battery life (while powering larger screens)
- Better OS
- Better UI
- Better GPS/Maps
- Prettier OS
- Here's a nice thing for the year 2012 - HIGH DEF VIDEO!!!
- NFC
- Flexibility in OS (Tons of Custom ROM's, etc)
- Flexibility in hardware (qwerty models, removable batteries, larger models, smaller models, high end models, mid range models, cheap models)
- Micro SD card
- Micro USB (Like every other phone made by every other manufacturer on planet Earth for hte past for years, except of course, Apple)
- Plug and play as a flash drive to copy files


RE: Proof positive...
By neothe0ne on 9/24/2012 1:37:28 PM , Rating: 2
and none of that matters even if iOS only held a single advantage:
- better app store


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 1:44:03 PM , Rating: 2
Better OS is highly debatable. JB isn't the disaster that Gingerbread was but it still doesn't feel as polished or tight as iOS or WP.

All of the things you list regarding resolution and display size are padding the list out since they are so intertwined.

quote:
- Better battery life (while powering larger screens)


Better battery life is because of the larger screen, not despite it. A big reason why handset manufacturers started making larger chassis is so that they could strap a larger battery to handle an inefficient OS using battery chugging parts like pre-iPhone 5 LTE chips. What is gained powering a larger display (both GPU and backlight) is highly offset by the larger battery.

The larger screen is actually a bonus feature from going with bigger batteries. Had they not made the chassis and display larger then they'd have really poor battery life.

The advantages of a larger screen are actually ergonomic disadvantages to some. It is really bad for one-handed operation. If you like screens pushing 5" then go for it, but don't assume they are for everyone.

Other things I agree with or am on the fence about. An SD card slot for instance increases size and introduces media management, so not having it is a fair tradeoff. If its for you then great. Plug & play as flash drive is fine, "there's an app for that". The one I most agree with is the flexibility in hardware. If you want a giant 5" screen then Android is the way to go, ditto keyboards. Neither interest me but I get it if they are for someone else.

All of the above are fair trades for app quality, long term support, and smoking fast performance, but again that's just me.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 2:47:36 PM , Rating: 1
"All of the things you list regarding resolution and display size are padding the list out since they are so intertwined."

No, it isnt. Screen size is great, but it isnt res. I would take a 5 inch 960x540 over a 4 inch 1136x640 any day. Higher res is a totally different win. The fact that you get large screena nd higher res is 2 wins, not one. The fact that iPhone cant play high def movies is certainly related to the res, ill give you that.

"Better battery life is because of the larger screen, not despite it."

Throw that in the win win column too. Oh, your [better#1] is only becasue of your [better#2] still makes 2 betters in that sentence. Ill take it any day.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 4:37:29 PM , Rating: 2
The way you'd get "HD" resolution in an iPhone is to either make the screen larger or to increase pixel density.

Increasing pixel density from this point is a place of serious diminishing returns given that pixels are currently indistinguishable from one another. Increased PPI would add component cost and production issues (what would yields be on a 400-500 PPI LCD?) that aren't needed.

Making a larger screen ruins the ergonomic advantages of the iPhone, so that isn't a workable means of getting HD either.

In any case, very high PPI (what actually matters in a discussion on resolution) is in the iPhone. High def on the iPhone also looks much better than standard def given that the iPhone resolution is greater than SD. It still benefits from a high res source.

If you want to get "HD" by increasing the display size then go for it, there are plenty of other phones out there. I don't care for big 5" phones myself. Practical ergonomics are the main factor for me there.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 5:35:44 PM , Rating: 1
All I am saying is there is a whole lot of "no's" for a high end phone.

- no large screen
- no HD video
- no removable battery
- no SD card
- no micro usb
- no file copy as a flash drive
- no nfc
- no decent mapping software
- no flexibility in hardware
- no flexibility in software

I dont get why. Hell, if Apple even offered a 2nd model with a larger screen alone, they would totally own the market. If it had a larger screen with even 1/2 those features it would be the market god. I dont get why Apple doesnt do a "nano" and "mega" version and clean up, but thats just me. It is what it is and it is lacking alot.


RE: Proof positive...
By michael2k on 9/24/2012 7:44:20 PM , Rating: 3
For the about 200m current iPhone owners, most of those are positives
- Easy to fit into a pocket
- Pixels so small we can't tell the difference
- Battery life so long we don't need a second battery
- Sufficient built in storage to not need an SD card
- The ability to use a wide variety of accessories due to Dock connector
- No need to unmount the device since it isn't a flash drive
- Thinner, lighter phone
- No malware (well, one found and removed) in the App Store
- No need to tweak settings/apps to maximize battery life

I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand; most people don't want to fiddle with removeable anything, be it battery or SD card, fiddle with settings, fiddle with anything at all if they can get away with it.

If you think about it they already do a mega and nano; the 4S and the 5 are the 3.5" and 4" variants of the iPhone. If they find after a couple quarters of sales that people are consistently buying the 4S alongside the 5 (and either due to size or price), they will probably keep both sizes as permanent. If they find that 90% go for one over the other then that will be their platform standard.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 8:08:56 PM , Rating: 2
To be clear "most" people are buying Androids by a margin of 4 to 1 over iPhone and that # is increasing rapidly. You "Apple can do no wrong" nutjobs can't be objective enough to have a conversation with. You only see one aspect of anything.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 1:08:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
To be clear "most" people are buying Androids by a margin of 4 to 1 over iPhone and that # is increasing rapidly.


It should be noted that the majority of those sales are in low end devices. If we are only comparing the high end, the iPhone is hands down the most popular smartphone on the market.

A narrowed comparison, but one worth making. Taken out of context the Fandroids would take the higher marketshare to mean that flagship Android phones sell nearly as much as the iPhone, when they actually sell closer to half.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 11:10:06 AM , Rating: 2
No, they arent, the highest selling Android devices, at least recently are the high end ones.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 10:33:05 PM , Rating: 2
That isn't the case worldwide. The majority sold are still low end devices. Low percentage of ICS installations and surprisingly low online traffic from Android devices (still less than iOS traffic) makes it even more clear.


RE: Proof positive...
By michael2k on 9/25/2012 11:23:02 PM , Rating: 2
When did that change? Do you have any sources for that claim?

According to court documents released in July or August, Samsung's US ASP was $320 something, a little over half of Apple's ASP of $630, indicating that the majority of Samsung's phones were significantly cheaper. Considering that Samsung has the lion' share of the Android market and that you can count on two hands the "millions" of smartphones HTC, Sony, LG, and Motorola sell, it becomes apparent that Samsung is also the lion's share of high end phones, too.

If you calculate ASP for Samsung's worldwide sales you get something a tad lower than $320, and if you take the profit share numbers Asymco has published you get something like 25% of Android phones cost more than $400, or about 15% of the world's smartphones, and that the remaining 45% (since the high and low end have to add up to 60% market share) are below $400.

In any case, comparing the 15% of Android above $400 to Apple's iPhones, which range from $400 to $800, means Apple outsells the high end Android phones approximately 2:1, and given the reports Samsung Galaxy sales figures, outsells Samsung's $400+ smartphones 3:1, at least at the beginning of this year.

If you have newer sales data it would be great; Apple did see a drop to only moving 26m iPhones last quarter so it's possible the distribution changed from 2:1 to 3:2 or something.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/26/2012 8:56:06 AM , Rating: 2
You are probably right... The highest selling models are high end, like the GS3 but collectively the mid and low end outsell it.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 1:05:07 AM , Rating: 2
One thing I keep forgetting to mention is that the current larger "higher definition" display in the S3 is at the expense of image quality.

Some people don't mind PenTile displays or can't see their pattern but they look really bad IMHO.

The thing is that the S3 has about the same number of subpixels as a 4S with fewer pixels, and it has fewer subpixels than the "lower resolution" iPhone 5. Pentile is a hacky workaround that should get addressed in the future.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 11:13:49 AM , Rating: 2
I dont think you have actually looked at one, you are reading specs.

I have held my SGS3 up to an iPhone 4S and a 5 (my boss just got one) and beleive me, it looks way better. Bright, vibrant colors, simply beautiful.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 10:36:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have seen them for months now. Pentile doesn't bother some people but the pattern really sticks out at me. Color profiles are still not as good either, too much contrast and color saturation. I have no idea why color profiles on Android aren't as good as on iOS or WP. It has always been a problem, you figure that someone spending a day with a Spyder or something and making some adjustments can get it better.

Very detailed analysis here, goes over color gamut and accuracy: http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.h...


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/27/2012 3:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
From Anandtech:

quote:
Wrapping up, the iPhone 5 display is a whole quantum leap better than the display on the iPhone 4. Contrast levels and light output have both been increased, and color performance is astonishing. The full sRGB gamut is present here, and color errors are remarkably low for a even a high end desktop display. While many were hoping for a move to OLED or some other screen innovation, this really is a huge step up that is very easy to quantify. To put this in perspective, in the past few years I've reviewed probably 30-40 different displays, from PC monitors, to TVs to projectors. Not a single one, out of the box, can put up the Gretag Macbeth dE numbers that the iPhone can, and perhaps one projector (which listed for $20,000) can approach the grayscale and color accuracy out of the box.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6334/iphone-5-screen...

You're probably mistaking the artificial colour setup of the SG3 with unnatural colour saturation as better. The iPhone is more natural, and according to Anandtech - superior.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 1:51:40 AM , Rating: 3
You reel this off at the slightest chance even though we were having a normal discussion about CPU/GPU performance. Seriously, I must have read you post this same thing about 10 times.

As I've told you before, your comments are not specific to anything. You are not talking about any one phone model (none of which have all of your list). You're combining the best features of a series of DIFFERENT phones which you can't get in one phone. You're also mixing up hardware with software.

I can do the same:

Todays iOS advantages:
- Smaller screens combined with flagship power
- Higher DPI screens which aren't PenTile (not real pixels)
- Better battery life (while phone itself is thinner and lighter)
- Better OS
- Better UI
- Equivalent Maps / GPS with more third party app options
- Prettier OS
- Higher Def video than can be played on say, the SG3 (Samsung flagship phone) due to PenTile pixels. Capability to play videos using full pixels at a higher resolution than you can see.
- Fastest CPU in any phone ever released
- Fastest GPU in any phone ever released
- Lightest phone of all Android flagships
- Thinnest phone of all Android flagships
- Leading record for customer satisfaction
- Leading record for reliability
- Tendency to get apps before Android does
- Better security
- Accessories allowing portable chargers, battery cases, microUSB adapters.
- Drag/drop not a problem with iCloud, Dropbox or installing an app.

See, the difference between my list and yours, is mine is all contained within one phone. Note how I took your subjective nonsense about 'Prettier' and turned it around, since it is NOT factual whatsoever.

If you're going to reel off a list of features, you need to select a phone. The phone matching your list doesn't exist. Pick one and I'll educate you as to why.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 1:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
And I forgot one of the most important ones:

- Track record for legacy device support even 3 years after product comes out.

25% of iOS users already upgraded to iOS 6.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 7:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
"If you're going to reel off a list of features, you need to select a phone. The phone matching your list doesn't exist. Pick one and I'll educate you as to why."

No, I dont. That is the good thing and a major advantage of the Android platform. If you want an iPhone, you have to pick one phone. I can pick from dozens and find the one that matches my needs. I am sure that logic is lost on you.

Anyhow, I will give you this. If you can deal with a small screen, and no SD card expansion, no NFC, no removable battery, no HD video etc then the iPhone 5 is a nice phone, obviously the best iPhone so far. If the large list of "no" in the iPhone doesnt contain things you want in a phone it works well (other than Maps) =)


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/25/2012 9:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am sure that logic is lost on you.
Not just that logic, but a lot of logic.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 11:46:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, I dont. That is the good thing and a major advantage of the Android platform. If you want an iPhone, you have to pick one phone. I can pick from dozens and find the one that matches my needs. I am sure that logic is lost on you.


You don't understand.

You're providing a list of features which are collectively available in ZERO Android phones. 0. Nought. Nada. None.

If you take any specific phone - you are giving up half of the items on that list - and the other half are subjective / preferences. You know that if you name a phone, such as the SG3, for example, I can cite performance, thickness, weight, drop tests, materials, battery life, PenTile, and today a brand new exploit which means a HTML link will perform a factory reset. It's a similar story for any other Android phones.

For all objective consumers, they have every bit as much choice as anyone else. By not being so narrow minded to single out the iPhone as a device they wont own - they actually have MORE choice than Android fanatics who 'hate' Apple.

Just so you know, I'm not buying the iPhone 5 because I'm waiting on the Optimus G and the Nexus phones - mainly because I fancy a change - I just hope I don't regret it.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 11:56:46 AM , Rating: 2
OK, captain intellect... With the possible exception of battery life (depending on which is more important to you, browsing life, hotspot, in call, standby) the SG3 fits my list perfectly. OK, you can call OS, UI subjective, but it is MY list.

"Todays Android advantages
- Larger Screens
- Higher resolution screens
- Better battery life (while powering larger screens)
- Better OS
- Better UI
- Better GPS/Maps
- Prettier OS
- Here's a nice thing for the year 2012 - HIGH DEF VIDEO!!!
- NFC
- Flexibility in OS (Tons of Custom ROM's, etc)
- Flexibility in hardware (qwerty models, removable batteries, larger models, smaller models, high end models, mid range models, cheap models)
- Micro SD card
- Micro USB"


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 10:41:19 PM , Rating: 2
"High def" video. The S3 has fewer subpixels than an iPhone 5 and the inferior image quality that goes with it. Pentile is a hacky solution, lmk when they can get HD without faking pixels.

Anyway, its all priorities. Tester's priorities actually matter to logical people. Its all tradeoffs. An SD card, eh, fair trade for better hardware, better apps, better OS, and better OS support. No argument that you get more input options though (keyboards, etc). I hate mobile keyboards so again, doesn't matter to me, but if its an old man who can't let go of his Blackberry then I get it.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/27/2012 3:09:25 AM , Rating: 2
Larger Screen - not necessarily an advantage.
Higher Resolution Screen? - Sorry, it's PenTile, less sub pixels than iPhone 5.
Worse battery life - so wrong there
Better OS, Better UI, Prettier OS are subjective
High-Def video - on a lower quality screen?
NFC - no real life practical uses yet
Flexibility in OS - if you want to waste your life removing flaws that the default OS comes with
Flexibility in hardware? You say the SG3 fits your list perfectly? It doesn't have any flexibility in hardware
Micro SD Card - $2 adapter, most don't need or want it
Micro USB - because charging an iPhone is too complex for you?

The only valid point in your entire list is Better Maps (not GPS) - and that's only temporary.


RE: Proof positive...
By andrewaggb on 9/24/2012 12:17:04 PM , Rating: 2
benchmarks mean whatever you want them to :-)

Certainly looks like the iphone 5 is the fastest all around phone. There was an LG phone with just about as fast graphics. CPU-wise its basically the same as many other phones. browser/javascript benchmarks are SO dependent on the version of webkit/V8/etc they aren't a good benchmark of underlying hardware. Put on optimized version of JB on the GS3 and it looks alot better.

It's the best iphone yet :-). It's disappointing only because the lumina 920 boasts wireless charging, nfc, and a much improved camera. Thinner, lighter, faster, has been the same old story for almost every iphone release and people were hoping for a bit more. iphone 4 got retina, 4s got siri, 5 gets a slightly bigger screen.


RE: Proof positive...
By kmmatney on 9/24/2012 1:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
The average person just wants something easy to use, for texting, taking Pictures and videos, Facebook, YouTube videos, Games, Apps, Email (business users) and Maps. Apple does all this really well, except for Maps at the moment. I never see adults (and I'm 41) browsing the web with their phones, where the larger Android screens would be a benefit. From a hardware perspective there are no real benefits to an Android phone, and iOS has been traditionally easier to use - at least for adults. I haven't tried JellyBean, but I assume it must be a lot better. My wife's Froyo phone (with no upgrade path) sucks.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 3:07:53 PM , Rating: 2
I agree Android 2.x sucked bad, Jelly Bean has not only caught up, but passed IOS easily. As far as screen size, I totally disagree. I am also 41 and benefit fromt he large screen every day and in everything I do. Its better for corporate email, web browsing, games, apps, and espectially watching HD videos, or non HD for that matter. It makes a huge difference. I honestly dont get the small screen thing. IOS, ANdroid , Winmobile, whatever your platform of choice, we all have these amazing phones that do so many things, but it all pings on the screen. Everything we do interfaces with that screen, and 4 inches is just too small to get any real work done. It just leaves you wanting more. IF you dont want more, take my advice and DONT try a phone with a larger higher res screen because you will want it.


RE: Proof positive...
By Kurz on 9/24/2012 11:29:20 AM , Rating: 2
Preview... its not confirmed.


RE: Proof positive...
By theapparition on 9/24/2012 3:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
I've been very critical of Apple in the past, and still am.

But Apple does have a very nice set of hardware in the iPhone 5. Anyone claiming otherwise is just in denial. It's still missing a lot of features, doesn't have a 720 screen, and still demands proprietary connectors. But it's OS and closed garden is what's holding it back now (for me).

But what I do find ironic, are the Apple fans who have years been championing the "It's not the hardware stupid, it's the experience" line. Now that the iOS experience has been surpassed in many ways, hardware is now the new banner.

Like the new iPhone commercial that shows the hand swiping across the screen, saying it's just common sense and Apple are so smart for thinking of it........

Tell me, did hands just magically get bigger overnight? Why was 3.5 perfect before, but now it's not. And what about the fact that not all hands are equally sized.

That level of shameless lies makes me distrust them. Yes, the legions of uninformed will watch that commercial and get all giggidy over it.


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/25/2012 1:12:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tell me, did hands just magically get bigger overnight? Why was 3.5 perfect before, but now it's not.


They didn't make the phone wider, they only made it taller. It is still enough where most hands can cover from corner to corner with one hand and without readjusting.

As for why 3.5" was fine before and why 4" is the way now, that is kind of a strange argument. Products always get iterated upon and get better. The first version of anything isn't the ideal, the important thing is that the important design goals are adhered to. In this case, one handed operating hasn't been compromised by adding 200px of vertical space.


RE: Proof positive...
By theapparition on 9/25/2012 9:45:47 AM , Rating: 2
Don't defend it. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

The commercial stated that it's common sense for that size. But for years before that, we heard from Apple, that 3.5 was the right size. Any bigger and it would be more difficult to use.

So where was Apple's common sense over the last few generations, when everyone else was going with 4" and 4.3" more rectangular screens.

So basically everyone else had common sense before Apple. Yet Apple's advertising misleads consumers into thinking they invented something they didn't. Yes, call it marketing 101. But I don't like it. And I don't have to support a company that I don't trust. If I know they've lied to me about that, then what other claims have they lied about?


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 12:00:28 PM , Rating: 2
They didn't change the width of the phone, and they barely changed the height.

The same common sense can still apply given that the limiting factor in how far you can reach is the housing, not the screen.

For example, if they took the screen in the iPhone 5 and made it edge-to-edge (zero bezel) you could still comfortably reach the edges.

Essentially, I'm saying that increasing the screen size without increasing the phone size is consistent with their 3.5" screen and their common sense advert.


RE: Proof positive...
By swampjelly on 9/24/2012 10:15:25 AM , Rating: 2
We like the Iphone for it's ridiculously easy use, for its Itunes & Ipod integration, for it's beautiful sleek design, for the number of apps and the fact that apps hit Iphones first, integration with Ipads. We loved the Iphone 3G/3Gs, the 4 was even better, some got the 4S and a lot waited for the 5. Their might be a faster phone with a bigger screen but I don't want it. I like my Iphone. Enjoy yours, but relax....its just a phone.


RE: Proof positive...
By djdjohnson on 9/24/2012 11:44:24 AM , Rating: 5
Why does anyone like iTunes? It's horrible... and about the worst music management program out there these days.


RE: Proof positive...
By aharris02 on 9/24/2012 11:51:18 AM , Rating: 2
It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't a ridiculous resource hog.

But it is, and iTunes is easily the worst part of having an iPhone.


RE: Proof positive...
By andrewaggb on 9/24/2012 12:20:12 PM , Rating: 1
iTunes is absolutely terrible. Hard to believe it's made by the same company.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 12:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. iTunes is one of the worst pieces of software I've ever seen.

Thankfully, you don't have to use it for anything any more, but that still doesn't excuse it.


RE: Proof positive...
By kmmatney on 9/24/2012 1:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
Well - I've tried other music management programs for my 25+ GB of music, but always come back to iTunes. It does a good job of managing music, and it's not really more of a resource hog than other programs I tried, although you do need to uninstall Bonjour after installing. I've tried media monkey, Songbird, CopyTrans, Foobar and they all had issues. I've never bought anything from the iTunes store, and keep that turned off. As a pure program for music management, sorting files, editing MP3 tags it works well. I do use Sharepod on my old Nano, though, keeping it installed directly on the device.


RE: Proof positive...
By quiksilvr on 9/24/2012 10:22:20 AM , Rating: 2
Let us try to keep a level head about these things, shall we? I may be against Apple like the next guy, but for iPhone users in the iPhone ecosystem, it makes perfect sense to get this phone because it finally has a larger, wider screen, LTE performance and turn-by-turn navigation. Granted the maps aren't perfect but to be fair it is a new application and will take time to fix.

It's not easy to switch operating systems for people. Even people that switched to Android bombard me with questions about how to do things that barely worked on iPhone but want it on their phone so badly. (They are subconsciously trying to find an excuse to hate Android and flock back, but I always find the solution for them that works better. Free, unobtrusive third-party apps for the win)

In conclusion, there isn't much to hate on here. iPhone 5 is clearly the iPhone to get if you are in the ecosystem and don't want to leave that ecosystem. Keep in mind a lot of people have been waiting two years for this and skipped over the 4S.


RE: Proof positive...
By bah12 on 9/24/2012 12:18:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's not easy to switch operating systems for people.
Agreed. I'm really torn right now. I'm due for an upgrade. I am a techie so I do care about performance. I despise Apple's legal tactics. And I want a wider screen.

All this just screams S3. However in my analysis it still remains very hard for me not to drop my iPhone. Purely my opinion but here is why it is still on the short list.

1. Apps. I don't want to re-buy. Although not a big item it is worth noting.

2. Performance. Clearly Apple is killing this right now. Bit stronger reason than #1 to stay.

3. Screen size. #2 right now in my consideration. 90% of my usage is vertical, so the lack of width is a big loss to me (or rather 0 gain)

4. New power adapter. I consider it a downfall but not much. Since I'd be buying mini usb stuff anyway.

5. Integrated apps like Face Time. I can use skype just fine, but walking my mother and grandmother to do it can be a pain. Still relatively low priority.

6. Silly but this really is my #1 issue. App progression. I've played all the Top games. Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, Water? (and all the sub games), plus many more. If I dump Apple I have to replay literally hundreds of levels just to unlock the new content. That would be a HUGE time investment. It would be like asking a WoW player to delete their account and start over. Silly I know, but certainly not trivial and often overlooked.


RE: Proof positive...
By Nortel on 9/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 10:36:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
but the elitism coming from Android proponents has far surpassed any Apple Fanboyism.
ROFL


RE: Proof positive...
By Mint on 9/24/2012 10:38:13 AM , Rating: 5
The hate escalated to another level or two after Apple patented trivial BS and tried to sue everyone. There are many people who don't want the one-size-fits-all iPhone, but see Apple trying to ban all the phones they do want and trample over the competitive spirit that has brought innovation to so many products in our lives.

That is actually fairly good justification to hate a company.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/24/2012 12:58:15 PM , Rating: 1
Actually Apple is the aggressor in only about 20% of its legal cases.

Samsung and Motorola have tried to sue over ridiculous FRAND patents - and they've lost because they were wrong. Samsung was found guilty.

Samsung tried to get the 4 banned over 3G, will likely try to get the 5 banned over LTE - yet you're not criticising that.

You're trying to justify your position of hate by finding correlating evidence. Instead, you should form your opinion after being made aware of all of the evidence.

And by the way, there is NEVER a good justification to 'HATE' a money making entity.


RE: Proof positive...
By Mint on 9/24/2012 1:19:15 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know which lawsuit in particular you're talking about, but googling shows me one where Samsung wanted the same fees everyone else gave them for a license to a patent, and sued only when Apple refused; others were in direct response to Apple's lawsuit. If Samsung won any case and used it to block all of Apples products, and did so before Apple did the same, I would be ragging on Samsung instead, but that isn't the case.

I don't really care that Samsung was fined for copying trade dress. I do care that Apple is trying to leverage it to block all Samsung sales including the S3 and Note, which are nothing like the iPhone. That stifles innovation - in fact, those phones embody almost all of the biggest innovations made since the original iPhone was released.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 1:59:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't know which lawsuit in particular you're talking about, but googling shows me one where Samsung wanted the same fees everyone else gave them for a license to a patent


In the case of 3G - Samsung had licensed the technology to Qualcomm who in turn provided the processors to Apple. The license for Qualcomm was then transferred to Apple.

Samsung later tried to revoke Qualcomms license if it had transferred to Apple - but failed. They attempted to ban the 4 over 3G patents but achieved no success whatsoever - they lost on every case.

The attempt to ban the S3 and the Note has nothing to do with trade dress - the bans being sought for them are over utility patents.

To quote FOSS patents:

quote:
It tried this trick last year with 3G patent assertions against the iPhone 4S, with a hit rate of zero. I would strongly discourage Samsung from trying to use 4G/LTE-essential patents to shut down the iPhone 5. It won't improve Samsung's position. It will only make things worse, especially with antitrust regulators. In my view, the reasonable approach for Samsung would be to sue for FRAND royalties over its SEPs, not injunctions.

Patent exhaustion is also going to be a big issue. From what I heard, the iPhone 5 will come with a Qualcomm baseband chip. Qualcomm and Samsung have a patent license agreement in place. Samsung tried to terminate it with respect to Apple as a third-party beneficiary (Motorola, advised by the same lawyers, tried the same thing). But in some jurisdictions, Samsung's push for injunctions against Apple devices incorporating Qualcomm baseband chips failed just because that termination theory was rejected, especially in light of Samsung's promise to grant irrevocable FRAND licenses to its SEPs. I don't know the Samsung-Qualcomm agreement but most likely it won't make a distinction between 3G and 4G patents as far as termination is concerned -- and participants in 4G/LTE standard-setting also had to promise to grant irrevocable FRAND licenses.


Samsung DOES try to ban basically every Apple product, and so is Google right now.

The only difference is neither have succeeded - but that's not through lack of trying, it's through lack of a case.


RE: Proof positive...
By tamalero on 9/24/2012 11:24:48 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
We're talking about a passionate loyal customer base. Perhaps these individuals have iPods or Mac PC's and enjoyed those products enough to warrant staying within the family. Heck, some people even want to support a USA company vs Korean.


Agree, a lot of people just go for "just because we're patriotic, we buy this!"
even if its inferior and overpriced.

quote:
Not everyone enjoys 'rooting' an android device to install the latest jelly bean (or whatnot)

how is it different from the needs to root your Iphone and similar Apple devices to prevent their huge lockdown on anything non apple?

quote:
but the elitism coming from Android proponents has far surpassed any Apple Fanboyism.

You clearly havent been to Apple-loyal type websites.
Were they think each iphone release as the second coming of Jesus.


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/24/2012 1:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Agree, a lot of people just go for "just because we're patriotic, we buy this!" even if its inferior and overpriced.


Fastest, thinnest, lightest - same price on contract. 'Inferior and overpriced'... just no.

quote:
Apple devices to prevent their huge lockdown on anything non apple?


To achieve, what, exactly? What exactly is 'locked down' which an average user needs?

quote:
You clearly havent been to Apple-loyal type websites. Were they think each iphone release as the second coming of Jesus.


What exactly were you doing there?


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 12:21:32 PM , Rating: 2
"We're talking about a passionate loyal customer base. Perhaps these individuals have iPods or Mac PC's and enjoyed those products enough to warrant staying within the family"

There is that, and I bet a good amount of them are people that tried Android 2.x or lower and absolutely hated it. Of course todays Android is way better than IOS, but alot of people that tried older versions may never come back. Oh well, Google should learn from that.


RE: Proof positive...
By Mint on 9/24/2012 10:29:33 AM , Rating: 2
This is true for a lot of Apple buyers, and gives Apple a big advantage over its competitors, but it's not true for all of them. If you want a phone as narrow as the iPhone - and I know plenty of Asian girls for whom anything larger is uncomfortable in one hand - then there isn't really anything clearly better. There's also many Apple owners who are willing to look at the alternatives.

Given the first 24 hour sales, weren't people guessing 10M iPhone5's would be sold this weekend? Maybe Apple isn't going to be quite as strong in the following year.


RE: Proof positive...
By hiscross on 9/24/2012 10:35:50 AM , Rating: 2
You've just insulted my family. I take that as a threat against their well being and safety.


RE: Proof positive...
By Tony Swash on 9/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 11:12:02 AM , Rating: 3
Meanwhile in the real world, you are still a iLoser...


RE: Proof positive...
By xti on 9/24/2012 11:19:49 AM , Rating: 3
this post is iRonic...


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 11:22:51 AM , Rating: 2
Why? Because you are right there with him?


RE: Proof positive...
By Nortel on 9/24/2012 11:27:57 AM , Rating: 2
its ironic because of your own post quoting my post:

quote:

but the elitism coming from Android proponents has far surpassed any Apple Fanboyism.


RE: Proof positive...
By xti on 9/24/2012 2:35:16 PM , Rating: 2
because thinking someone is a loser based on their phone preference...actually makes you the loser.

the iRonic part was just cleverness.


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 3:00:19 PM , Rating: 1
The "loser" part, is someone who defends a company tooth and nail, when the company doesn't give 2 shits about you or anyone else. They only care about themselves.

Kind of like you, defending Apple all the time... guess what that makes you? Yep...a iLoser...


RE: Proof positive...
By xti on 9/24/2012 4:09:05 PM , Rating: 2
yes, because samsung gives you hourly hugs...

how do you not fall down more...


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 4:19:02 PM , Rating: 2
Great comeback....really it is. Except, unlike you and TS, TG, MDD, I don't defend ANY company.

That's the difference between me and tools like you.

How do you live life with such a closed mind? Apple isn't the world....


RE: Proof positive...
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 11:49:17 AM , Rating: 2
You know, 'defending' a company or product on logical grounds would make a lot more sense than what you do.

And to be clear - what you do is hate on anything Apple. You're too simple to do anything else.

You're the most extreme kind of fanboy but fortunately most of your posts can be ignored because you are epically, epically dumb.

No offence.


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/25/2012 1:05:14 PM , Rating: 1
Good thing your opinions mean nothing...

I am epically dumb...coming from you? That's a fuckin hoot.

No offense? You don't offend me, you are to much of a fucking idiot to offend me.

My 5 month old is smarter than you....


RE: Proof positive...
By gamilonman on 9/24/2012 11:29:59 AM , Rating: 3
Well put. I personally left Apple due to their business practices and closed vision of computing, but I don't think less of those that still use it. Motoman's post is just nonsense. There is a LOT of valid bad stuff to say about Apple, but they make good hardware, and the iPhone5 is no exception. It kills in performance and battery life, and those are two pretty important areas. I also think it has a great form factor and screen, but those are more subject to debate.

My recent mobile phone history: iPhone, iPhone 3GS, HTC Thunderbolt, Samsung GS3) - BTW, before those I had various Palm and Windows based units and find the current patent wars to be a great waste of shareholder value on all sides. It is pretty depressing to think of all of those value-wasted dollars going to lawyers that could go into produces.)


RE: Proof positive...
By Onipyro on 9/24/2012 7:21:07 PM , Rating: 1
OMG for once i can agree with you on something.

quote:
Some of the more militant Fandroids on the other hand seem to be incandescent with rage and/or contempt for the tens of millions of consumers that prefer Apple to Android and seem genuinely incapable of accepting that buying Apple may make very good sense to some consumers and is generally a perfectly rational decision. Some Fandroids seem to not just like Android and not just dislike Apple but also to really dislike people who buy Apple products, to my mind a bizarre and unpleasant sort of attitude.


Yes this is worse then Console fanboys. Which would beat each others heads in over if they own a ps3 or xbox360, i have seen this first hand.

I for one wont use Apple PCs due to my Msi being cheaper priced and way more powerfull. But in a pc I demand it to be so. I need it to be so.

As far as a cell Smartphone i only require it to preform certain functions. I have owned the iphone since the first one. In the begin i combated against the anti touch screen crowd who are most likely now a days the Android crowd.
Never have i had a problem with iphone after jailbreaking it. I obtained my iphone 5 black slate 64 gig friday at 8:32 am. And i still prefer it to my girlfriends galaxy Note < over-sized galaxy s2 with faster cpu> Alot of andriod elitist sadly make the Mac elitist look like a joke. at least apple jerks didnt trash the person.


RE: Proof positive...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 7:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
And you agreeing with the most vocal Mac Elitist on here... lulz...


RE: Proof positive...
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 1:18:31 PM , Rating: 2
Its a good thing that this inferior product has the fastest performance and best mobile developers available then, isn't it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6324/the-iphone-5-pe...

That tiny little thing is faster by a very wide margin than new phones almost double the size.


RE: Proof positive...
By BillyBatson on 9/24/2012 2:59:11 PM , Rating: 2
Stop generalizing. I'm a pc guy, anti apple, I do my research. I got the iPhone 5. I'm still waiting to see the 920 when it's out, I can always sell my ip5 and buy the 920 outright. Benchmarks are in and looks like I got my money's worth. It's not perfect no but I don't think any phone is. Ios6 should just be called ios5.5 because it definitely isn't an upgrade. The maps... Yes I want the old maps back BUT I'll say that so far none of the directions have been incorrect (I've driven about 500 miles since getting the phone) and I like how it can now visually guide me from the lock screen. And the phone is actually not dense enough to my liking and makes it feel like a cheaper plastic phone. I wanted NFC which may just be gimmicky right now but has potential use in the next few years. The up sides? Feels way more comfortable in my hand than the 4, fast, perfect size screen for ME, and finally I was the biggest naysayer when it came to the new "lightening" dock to the point where I sold all my docks etc (for guess what? Very high resale value) but I absolutely LOVE the new dock connector it is by far my favorite connector type of all time already! It beats hdmi, USB and any variation of, any of the old proprietary connectors on any cellphone digital camera etc from any brand, any computer input, anything. It's definitely more durable, goes in easy, clicks solid in solid and holds really securely, disconnects well, goes in either way, can't be damaged or crushed if stepped on, and none of the pins on the cable can come out of place.

People have to calm down it's just a phone. We aren't marrying into these brands or to these devices. If the lumia is better ill switch, if next years gs4 is significantly beats the 920 ill switch again, if the ip5s 6 months after that becomes the king of all phones ill come back again.


RE: Proof positive...
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 3:48:01 PM , Rating: 2
"Ios6 should just be called ios3.3 because it definitely isn't an upgrade. "

FTFY ;)


RE: Proof positive...
By EnzoFX on 9/24/2012 5:26:24 PM , Rating: 1
Who are you to say what's inferior to them? The stupidity of some people. You and these ignorant bashers give those in the tech industry a bad name. It isn't about whatever you think is important, clearly, that's why no one gives a sh!t about your favorite toy. Get over it.

The biggest reason people stick with iPhone is BECAUSE the OS looks the same. They don't want to learn a ton of new shit, or change their use cases. Grow up.


RE: Proof positive...
By BifurcatedBoat on 9/30/2012 4:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
Today's sales are based on yesterday's reputation. They must have liked the iPhone 4/4S.


Unacceptable
By simsony on 9/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Unacceptable
By kingmotley on 9/24/2012 12:10:24 PM , Rating: 2
Maps? One of the main features? Since when?

Sorry, but maps doesn't even make the top 20 for me, and what maps I do use come from a GPS application, so I'm not even using the google maps application. I think I launched the google map app probably less than a dozen times over the two years I owned the iPhone 4.


RE: Unacceptable
By BillyBatson on 9/24/2012 3:06:04 PM , Rating: 2
Maps has always been the 4th most used app for me since the 3G. #1 safari, #2 YouTube, #3 messaging, #4 Maps


RE: Unacceptable
By tayb on 9/24/2012 12:25:47 PM , Rating: 2
I have an iPad 2 that I updated to iOS 6 and the maps are... fine. Granted, all I did was play with the maps but they had 3D details of the city I live in (Dallas). It's an iPad, how often do you actually use maps?

I really can't comment on how crappy (or not?) the maps are. I have a Droid X, a notebook, and a desktop. I would never think to use my iPad for maps...


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 12:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
"I really can't comment on how crappy (or not?) the maps are."

The world has pretty much spoken on this and it was a resounding "thud". Really poorly done. Just because you dont use your iPad for maps doesnt mean the millions of iPhone users dont use it, not to mention the people that upggraded to IOS6 and now have far inferior maps to what they used to have.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/24/2012 1:05:41 PM , Rating: 1
Vocal minority.

Millions of satisfied customers.

The (quite funny) issues that it does have will quickly be sorted out.

For most people having turn by turn is a big improvement and lots prefer the style too.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 1:16:50 PM , Rating: 2
"Vocal minority."

ROFLMAO... Too funny fanboy.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-insta...


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 1:18:57 PM , Rating: 2
Google link didnt work, so let me google it for you.

http://bit.ly/NMWXHq


RE: Unacceptable
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 1:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'm curious to see actual numbers compared to media hype. I actually used maps to get somewhere this weekend and it was completely accurate. About what I'd expect from Tom Tom, it worked.

Eh, I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe its because I live in a major city.

/shrugs


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 1:29:18 PM , Rating: 2
It's probably not a huge deal. It wouldnt be at all if it wasnt there adn already good. If it was just a new feature, it would be expected, but when removing something great, and replacing it with something completely crappy, people tend to get upset.

I just find it funny in the face of all the "it just works" BS that Apple has you nutjobs believing.


RE: Unacceptable
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 1:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
The app itself is actually way better than the old one. The data will get shaken out over time, that is certain. For those of us in big cities its actually fine. I used it this weekend because I was going to an obscure place I hadn't been to before (small neighborhood), and the app totally nailed it.

Google Maps is the best but I get why it was dropped. Aside from Apple not wanting to fund a major competitor anymore (almost a billion dollars just for maps in 2011), its for the same reason so many other companies are dumping Google Maps: it got too expensive once Google started charging last year. They deserve the cash because it is a great mapping service, but I get it. Google Maps will be out soon enough for those who can't stand not having it.

"you nutjobs"

Again, you're generally better than motoman, cheesewiz, reclaimer, or the other morons who post around here. Don't stoop.


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 2:04:33 PM , Rating: 2
Morons....funny, coming from you...


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 3:21:18 PM , Rating: 2
I dunno, I call a terd a terd. I have no connection or loyalty to any company. If Android stops being the best option, I will drop it like a hot rock. Google has some terds, Android 2.x or lower was all terd. The fact that 95% of everything on the play store is from 4 to 4.5 stars is a terd. LOL. Apple has alot more terds these days, or more specifically the missing features list is astounding for a high end phone. To me its just ridiculous. But when I see someone defending any move a company makes and any product they release I call that person a nutjob.

Ill give that back to you though, at least you arent as bad as Tony, Macdev,and Testerguy. They live for Apple. The company, and the products they make are simply not worthy of the devotion on any level.


RE: Unacceptable
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 4:45:20 PM , Rating: 2
I've been assembling my PCs for almost 20 years. When Haswell drops this thing is getting an overhaul. I also have Macs, I've had Kindles since the very beginning (Paperwhite is on pre-order), I own every game console, and I also have an iPhone and an iPad. I've thought for a long time that Windows Phone has awesome potential. I just get what is the best by my criteria, which comes down to software and hardware.

I also have no allegiance to a platform. Every company and platform has pros and cons, that's just a fact. Its about finding a good balance. Regarding iOS devices, the app selection, support from Apple, and hardware quality for me far outweigh keyboards, larger screens, and SD card storage. Simple.

The idea here that anyone who likes a certain platform is a blind sheep, without discussion, is nonsense.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 5:38:29 PM , Rating: 2
Ya, there are those that will badmouth Apple no matter what good things they do and there are those that will defend Apple no matter what bad things... I stopped trying to understand that. Hell , even Rambus must have had some good points. LOL.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 2:05:47 AM , Rating: 2
And there are some who are objective enough to distinguish between an issue affecting a minority (but achieving massive bad press) and an issue which affects everybody, not trying to jump over any chance they can to criticise Apple due to an irrational anti-Apple fanboy frenzy. Like the bullet point list you crap out on every thread no matter whether it's relevant or not.

It's just reality - in most user cases the new maps is an improvement - adding turn by turn. There are issues, yes - but not for everybody and they are being overblown.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 7:18:23 AM , Rating: 2
Well thank you for adding some objectivity to the conversation guy who created a userid at AT/DT for the sole purpose of posting pro Apple.

This is pretty loud... It may not be "that bad" for everyone but alot of people are angered. This was even on the local news radio on my way home last night. It's not that bugs dont happen, its Apples pompous "it just works" stance on everything and the millions of people who buy it because of that falsehood. That and its a step back from what already existed on OS5 devices.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 11:53:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well thank you for adding some objectivity to the conversation guy who created a userid at AT/DT for the sole purpose of posting pro Apple.


That's your claim, not mine. It doesn't represent reality. I don't care about any company, and I don't own a 4S or a 5.

I care about logic.

I agree it's made the press for all the wrong reasons - I am just stating that it's being overblown. I think if you're honest you'd agree with me.

It's only a step back for the minority who are having issues. For everyone else, they gained road work visuals and turn by turn, it's a step forward in some ways, and many prefer the style (although from what I've seen, I personally don't).

You can't, or shouldn't perceive an 'attitude' from a company and you shouldn't allow that perception to affect your interpretation of an issue either. An issue is as bad as it is, regardless of how you perceive the company.

As I said though - for most people the 'it just works' stance hasn't changed. Of course we hear only from the people who are upset - it's how it goes.


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/25/2012 1:07:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't care about any company, and I don't own a 4S or a 5.
ROFL! Yea....you keep saying that... that's quite amusing.

quote:
I care about logic.
Again, ROFL!


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/25/2012 2:01:36 PM , Rating: 2
"ROFL! Yea....you keep saying that... that's quite amusing."

LOL. Yes, I don't care about Apple. I created a userid here and do nothing but post in Apple related articles and do nothing but aggressively defend Apple, every move they make and every product they develop and insult the intelligence of those that disagree with my pro Apple stance on literally everything. I don't own an Apple product nor do I care about them at all , "I care about logic".

Sounds logical to me... ;)


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/27/2012 3:13:30 AM , Rating: 2
It's as if you believe that if you keep repeating over and over 'he is an Apple fan' 'he is an Apple fan' 'he is an Apple fan' that it will somehow magically make any of my perfectly logical points go away.

You're worse than Android fanboys - at least they try to argue about the merits and specifics.

You guys get so threatened by any realities which happen to be in Apples favour (mostly because of your ridiculously Anti-Apple stance) that you attack the individual instead of the points.

An argument without an argument.


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 1:26:18 PM , Rating: 2
Delusional fanboy...


RE: Unacceptable
By tayb on 9/24/2012 3:21:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The world has pretty much spoken on this and it was a resounding "thud". Really poorly done. Just because you dont use your iPad for maps doesnt mean the millions of iPhone users dont use it, not to mention the people that upggraded to IOS6 and now have far inferior maps to what they used to have.


Yeah I hear the talk online but I've yet to experience it first hand. The few people I know with iOS 6 haven't complained about maps. I think it largely depends on what area of the country you're in.

Also, Google Maps is good but not great. Here is my navigation experience with Google Maps.

1A. Restart the phone or GPS won't find a signal
1B. Get directions -> Navigate
1. Computerized voice directions for at least a half dozen or dozen turns.
2. The voice changes to a soft spoken lady. This will last a handful of turns.
3. The voice goes away and all I hear is chimes when I'm supposed to be turning.
4. The chime goes away and all it does is show me following a route.
5. Restart my phone to get the voice back.

This happens every single time I try to use google maps navigation. And this is just the most annoying and repeatable problem. Yesterday my phone was supposed to be taking me to a gas station but instead I ended up in the middle of a random suburb. This is Android.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 3:32:15 PM , Rating: 2
On a 2 year old Droid X maybe. On a New Android, here is what you get.

1. Launch Google Now
2. Say "Navigate to the nearest McDonalds" (for example)
3. Within seconds you are being directed to your destination.

Very rarely does it miss. And the feature set us unmatched.


RE: Unacceptable
By TakinYourPoints on 9/24/2012 4:48:00 PM , Rating: 2
I just tried this on Siri (I upgraded from an iPhone 4 so I never had it). Worked like a charm, thanks for the tip!

Well, except for actually eating at McDonalds, screw that. :)


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 5:12:00 PM , Rating: 2
Cool, now you can do what we can do... just a bit slower than us since Google now beat Siri ;)

hee hee hee


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 3:39:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is Android.
No, it's really not...


RE: Unacceptable
By tayb on 9/24/2012 3:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
Really, it is. The vast majority of people with Android handsets are running 2.x, not 4.x.


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 3:50:54 PM , Rating: 2
No, it's really NOT...


RE: Unacceptable
By tayb on 9/24/2012 4:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
Here are some stats for you. http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/inde...

75.8% of ALL Android devices are running 2.x or LOWER.

This data is accurate as of September 14th, 2012.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 5:15:59 PM , Rating: 2
Alot of older OS still out there, but that doesn't mean your experience is normal. You posted some glitchy story about your GPS woes and said "This is Android" - Cheese posted "No, it is not". The point is although Android 2.x wasnt up to par as an OS, your experience is not the norm. Most Android 2.x phones worked fine with GPS, but Android 2.x being weak, it's easy to see how some do not.


RE: Unacceptable
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/24/2012 6:19:52 PM , Rating: 2
I never responded to anything at all about what version of what is on what. I was responding to the ridiculous post about your problems with GMAPS stating that it's "just android" as if YOUR problems are experienced by everyone, that is not "just android", not everyone has the same issue as YOU..

Once again, it's not "just android"...


RE: Unacceptable
By mckinney on 9/24/2012 1:08:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am absolutely furious with the POS that is Apple Maps


I have a Samsung SG2 with ICS and the mapping sucks, primarily for the fact that it cant figure out where it is for 15-20 minutes on an LA freeway. If the Iphone can figure out where it is, it cant be worse than my phone.


RE: Unacceptable
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 1:31:10 PM , Rating: 2
"I have a Samsung SG2 with ICS and the mapping sucks, primarily for the fact that it cant figure out where it is for 15-20 minutes on an LA freeway"

If it cant find you for 15 mins your GPS unit is malfuntioning. It has nothing to do with the maps software.


RE: Unacceptable
By Belard on 9/24/2012 7:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
It has nothing to do with ICS, its the phone's GPS. Samsung's GPS in the Galaxy S1 and S2 is usually crap.

On the Galaxy S3 and other new phones, its very fast and accurate.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/24/2012 1:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
@Simsony,

Nobody knows why Apple moved away from Google, but it probably had something to do with Google wanting to add adverts onto iOS or that its licensing prohibited turn by turn directions on the iPhone.

In either scenario Apple had little choice unless it wanted to allow Google to hold them and their customers to ransom. As I mentioned, lots of people are actually happy with the maps and of course there are some issues to resolve - but this a vocal minority and you can bet that the issues that there are will be very quickly resolved.

Remember, you now have turn by turn. You didn't before. You haven't actually given any reasons why you don't like it.


RE: Unacceptable
By simsony on 9/25/2012 3:46:11 AM , Rating: 2
My entire area is full of errors. I use maps to find local stuff. I'm also in the middle of a house move so need maps extensively. Apple maps comes up with 1 result for searches like supermarket. On google maps, there are 8 major ones within walking distance. I live in the UK in a very urban location.

IOS6 has very little POIs. I would say about 30% of what's actually around. It seems touristy stuff are mapped. Like McDonalds :)

Right now it appears to be passable in the major cities and capitals in the US and Europe.

Tony is grasping at straws when he says it works better in China, where the iPhone doesn't even sell well. Others saying that maps are barely used on smartphones? Give me a break. I can smell the desperation.

I take what's best. Apple had its advantages but with this behaviour, being locked into that ecosystem has become a much bigger disadvantage.

If Apple wants to change maps that's fine. But then you do the work to get it right, and not alpha test with users. I want upgrades to means a better user experience, 3D gimmicks can wait. Apple has the cash, so use it! Take a year, closed testing, whatever it takes.

IMO this is the first of many future steps where profit, bean counting and corporate egos are overriding the customer and the product experience. Apple fell before when this thinking crept in.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/25/2012 11:56:16 AM , Rating: 2
Care to share which area you are talking about so I can take a look?

I am from the UK too.

I also stand by my original comment - we don't really know why the deal broke down. Google has never allowed companies to utilise their data for turn by turn, so right there Apple was being held back by a third party. Secondly, Google Maps has been removed from various services because of their demand to include adverts - it may be that they made similar demands of Apple.

Now I'm not claiming to know either way - I'm just saying there are two companies who can cause a negotiation to break down, Apple may not have had much choice.


RE: Unacceptable
By simsony on 9/25/2012 5:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
Just southwest of Bristol City Centre.

There are three Tesco Expresses, Two Sainsbury's, ASDA, Aldi, Lidl, Co-op, Iceland, Farmfoods.

*All* appear on Google Maps.

On the Apple maps, 1 Sainsbury, the ASDA store, and a Somerfield store which is long gone. Co-op bought and rebranded somerfield in 2010, and closed nearby stores, so the Apple map data is at least two years old.

If I used the maps and went to Somerfield well... Not to mention the tesco that is a couple of minutes away that does not even show.

They could scrape the Yellow pages and do better! Whatever the challenges working with Google, Apple have simply not done their homework.


RE: Unacceptable
By testerguy on 9/27/2012 3:20:06 AM , Rating: 2
OK, try two things for me:

Search for 'Bristol Supermarkets' - you will see the Co-op is there and Somerfield store isn't.

Search for 'Bristol Tesco' - you will see 5 Tesco Express stores are there.

I think maybe they have to associate the Tesco's with the 'supermarket' search but generally the information is there.


RE: Unacceptable
By Tony Swash on 9/24/2012 2:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
Overview of Mapgate

http://counternotions.com


Article paid by APPLE ?
By max_payne on 9/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Article paid by APPLE ?
By lowbot on 9/24/2012 11:24:34 AM , Rating: 2
This is a tech website. If you want stories about world affairs you need to look at a news website. Glad I could help.


RE: Article paid by APPLE ?
By mckinney on 9/24/2012 1:14:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is a tech website. If you want stories about world affairs you need to look at a news website. Glad I could help.


Haha. Riiiight. If you want Apple blogs, come to Daily Tech. I will bet they mention the "Big A" in more blogs than any other tech company. Worst offender is Jason Mick. He will mention Apple in 3 blogs a day.


RE: Article paid by APPLE ?
By lowbot on 9/24/2012 1:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Haha. Riiiight. If you want Apple blogs, come to Daily Tech. I will bet they mention the "Big A" in more blogs than any other tech company. Worst offender is Jason Mick. He will mention Apple in 3 blogs a day.


Boy, what a zinger. This relates to my tech site vs. news site comment...how, exactly? Jason writes about Apple products, so Daily Tech is not a tech website? Is that your intended point? Hold on, let me go check and see if Apple is a company that sells tech products. Be right back.


RE: Article paid by APPLE ?
By Tony Swash on 9/24/2012 2:43:57 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
It is just one of the thousand of phones on sale in the world


Which also happens to be the biggest selling handset brand. All previous iterations of the iPhones have each become the best selling handset and the iPhone 5 will without doubt be the best selling handset globally in the coming year. Hence the attention.

Plus of course its the fastest :)


RE: Article paid by APPLE ?
By retrospooty on 9/24/2012 5:26:41 PM , Rating: 2
"Plus of course its the fastest :)"

Unless of course you are comparing Google Now to Siri ;)

It is certainly fast CPU/GPU wise. Fastest for now, check back in 4 months when the S4 quad with Adreno 320's, OMAP5, and next gen Exynos are out.


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