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Porsche's turbodiesel can't fix ugly

Porsche continues to expand its lineup by introducing more fuel-efficient models. The company has already introduced diesel and hybrid versions of its Cayenne crossover. Likewise, the company's news nameplate, the Panamera, will soon be available in hybrid form.

Today, however, Porsche has officially revealed the newest member of the family: the Panamera Diesel. The Panamera Diesel uses a more powerful version of the VW Group 3.0-liter V6 turbodiesel that is used in the Cayenne. In this application, it generates 250hp at 3,800 rpm and 405 lb-ft of torque at a low 1,750 rpm.

Those wishing to row your own gears will have to look elsewhere -- the Panamera Diesel can only be had with Porsche's 8-speed Tiptronic S transmission.

Porsche says that the Panamera Diesel can sprint to 60 mph in a respectable 6.8 seconds and has a top speed of 150 mph. The vehicle is rated at a U.S. equivalent 36.2 mpg on the European Cycle. As a result, Porsche's long-distance cruiser can travel a whopping 744 miles thanks to its generous 21-gallon fuel tank. 

While the powertrain is new in the Panamera, the styling hasn't change one bit. In fact, about the only thing that will alert pedestrians to the turbodiesel lurking within are the "Diesel" badges on the front doors. Otherwise, the Panamera’s family resemblance up front and dreadful backend/hatchback area remain.



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Did you hear that?
By SublimeSimplicity on 5/2/2011 12:59:37 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Porsche says that the Panamera Diesel can sprint to 60 mph in a respectable 6.8


Respectable for what? A Jetta? A Camry?

And that high pitched whine isn't from the turbo diesel, that's Ferdinand Porsche turning over in his grave.




RE: Did you hear that?
By Pneumothorax on 5/2/2011 1:28:59 PM , Rating: 2
You and I both know this car is basically a CAFE-raising stunt. It's a sad day when a 3 series turbodiesel sedan is faster than a Porsche in acceleration.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Argon18 on 5/2/2011 9:37:11 PM , Rating: 4
Sorry, try again. Comparing the 3-series to this very large Porsche sedan is a bit odd, no? Lets compare the acceleration figures for the 7-series, which is much closer both in size and in market segment. The 745d, specifically, which is the current diesel engined model. It does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, and gets only 25 mpg compared the Porsche's 36 mpg. As ugly as it is, this Porsche diesel sedan performs very very well.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Lord 666 on 5/2/2011 1:33:31 PM , Rating: 3
Why rolling in his grave? He was all about efficiency... getting 36mpg at 6.8mpg is nothing to laugh at.


RE: Did you hear that?
By bah12 on 5/2/2011 2:01:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why rolling in his grave? He was all about efficiency... getting 36mpg at 6.8mpg is nothing to laugh at.
That's 36mpg European loop. These articles REALLY need a US EPA equivalent or just leave the mpg aspect out.

As to the OP, I think his point is 100% valid 6.8 is laughable for a Porsche, as another poster said clearly a CAFE gimmick.


RE: Did you hear that?
By piroroadkill on 5/3/2011 4:36:36 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, most people just buy expensive cars for prestige, and barely ever use their cars' capabilities. An efficient diesel engine and a de-badge later, and it's an attractive deal for people who think like that.

For example, I passed an a Mercedes with an AMG 6.3 v8, north of 500hp. Why does he need that when I passed him with only 70hp?

Just for show.


RE: Did you hear that?
By piroroadkill on 5/3/2011 4:37:27 AM , Rating: 1
I should clarify, I don't mean he couldn't beat the shit out of me, he could, obviously - I'm just saying most people buy it for sake of it, and really don't use the performance.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Spuke on 5/3/2011 11:16:14 AM , Rating: 2
Most of the owners of these cars already know they're fast and don't feel the need to prove it. I drove faster in my old economy cars than in my sports car. Sometimes I do open it up but it's rare. Others fast cars owners save their fast driving for the track where you can really use the performance and drive slow in the street.


RE: Did you hear that?
By drewidgho5t on 5/3/2011 6:30:45 PM , Rating: 2
your girlfriend could beat the $hit outta u. Your momma does.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Visual on 5/3/2011 9:51:29 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly, because the internet does not reach Europe, and who would read Dailytech there anyway!


RE: Did you hear that?
By MrBlastman on 5/2/11, Rating: 0
RE: Did you hear that?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 1:49:08 PM , Rating: 1
I can't speak for this version but the Panamera Turbo is a very impressive handling car. See the Top Gear episode on it.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Lord 666 on 5/2/2011 2:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
Don't need a Top Gear episode to tell me that. Even funnier, you should see the old ladies driving them around in my area. Its like they grow on trees lately.

But for the diesel part, the 3.0 is a bit small. Not to mention this car is not far from the Cayenne's weight.


RE: Did you hear that?
By bah12 on 5/2/2011 2:10:15 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, the one living in the 1960's is the guy that thinks a heavier 4 door cannot also handle well. This one, the CTS-V, M5, and many more have proven this many times.

Don't believe me take this link as an example. Heck the CTS-V alone has bested a LOT of smaller lighter cars. Even beating the much lighter Honda 2000 by almost a full minute, as well as besting even the more modern Boxster S and Skyline. Albeit these are hardly true apples to apples runs, but my point is a heavier car does not mean bad handling one if engineered right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...


RE: Did you hear that?
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 3:24:47 PM , Rating: 2
True, but you need a whole lot better tire grip to pull it off. Weight is the enemy of performance.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 4:37:13 PM , Rating: 2
Considering the weight, the tires on the CTS-V aren't all that aggressive or wide for that matter. Just some Michelin PS2's. Nothing you wouldn't find on other cars of its caliber.


RE: Did you hear that?
By RussianSensation on 5/2/2011 4:45:59 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed.

Either Porsche or the target customer for this vehicle is having an identity crisis. A Porsche is supposed to be a sports car. 6.8s 0-60 is completely unacceptable for a Porsche non-SUV vehicle. It's even more unacceptable for a car with a price tag of > $100k without having the luxury of a Bentley, etc.

Also, if someone can afford a car for $100-120k, they obviously shouldn't care about the gas price. If they want to save the environment, this car isn't it either since they'd probably be looking into an electric car. Basically, I don't understand any reason at all to get this vehicle with such an underpowered engine. The stock V6 car gets to 0-60 in 5.8 seconds (5.6s with PDK) and gets a reasonable 22 mpg avg. This means the financial savings from reduced fuel costs for the owner will be immaterial because this isn't a $15,000 Honda Civic.

Optional low-rolling-resistance tires? Seriously? Whoever orders that pretty much is a "brand wh***" since it's pretty obvious they just bought the car for the badge.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 3:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yes dammit, I for one was really upset when Honda gave up on a V6 diesel for the honda accord.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 3:35:14 PM , Rating: 2
I would kill to have 3.0 turbo diesel in my Toyota Tacoma. My 4.0 gas engine could be worse but still its about a 15mpg difference.


RE: Did you hear that?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 4:33:25 PM , Rating: 2
So was I. Even saw quite a few pre-productions on the freeway close to my house. Figured it was a done deal.


RE: Did you hear that?
By KentState on 5/2/2011 4:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
The base model out performs it, gets an estimated 7 mpg less and probably saves you $10-20k in price. What is the point of this car in the lineup?


RE: Did you hear that?
By aegisofrime on 5/3/2011 1:29:39 AM , Rating: 2
Nissan GT-R 2012: 0 - 60 mph in 3.0 Seconds.

Sorry, I just had to do it :p


RE: Did you hear that?
By shiftypy on 5/3/2011 4:50:41 AM , Rating: 2
I love GT-R as much as the next guy, but you can only put amputees in the back seat.


how about no?
By kattanna on 5/2/2011 1:37:21 PM , Rating: 2
Porsche and "4 door sedan" just dont go together in my mind.

whats next the Ferrari family sedan?




RE: how about no?
By Nfarce on 5/2/2011 1:59:53 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's also what everyone said about the SUV Porsche known as the Cayenne (the hisses were heard 'round the world).

But even the most pure Porschephile knows that the Cayenne saved Porsche from doom. Porsche knew it had to do more than the Carrera, Boxter, and later Cayman to survive.


RE: how about no?
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 3:30:40 PM , Rating: 2
Yup sports cars haven't done so hot for a while as witnessed by the death of the supra and RX7. They are in reality totally ridiculous cars to drive around on city streets. If you ask me that's why the mustang has always done well, its more like a "real" car.


RE: how about no?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 5:34:13 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know about totally ridiculous. Impractical, maybe.


RE: how about no?
By Nfarce on 5/2/2011 8:06:46 PM , Rating: 3
Errr, I don't think so. The two Porsches in a friend's garage right now don't see the light of day from Monday-Thursday, and if the weekend weather is bad, same thing. Weekends only, and that includes track time.

The RX7 is now the RX8. Toyota axed the Supra because of falling sales. The Mustang is a serious "sports" car in V8 form. The Corvette has always done well too, but it's a level up in track performance compared to the Mustang, not to mention more expensive. The Camaro is more of a fat walrus showboater but still successful and decent performing "sports" car for Chevy.


RE: how about no?
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 10:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but the Rx7 to the Rx8 was a downgrade and it was cancelled like the supra because of poor sales. Rx8 came out a while after the Rx7 was cancelled.


RE: how about no?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 3:51:07 PM , Rating: 2
Porsche's been wanting to do a 4 door for quite a while. This isn't new.


RE: how about no?
By JediJeb on 5/2/2011 3:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
Well the Ferrari 412 is a 4 passenger coupe but could be made redesigned into a sedan I guess and it has been around a while. I never knew Ferrari even made a 4 passenger anything until just recently.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ferrari...


RE: how about no?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 4:35:07 PM , Rating: 2
There's the new Ferrari FF. It's 4 passenger too.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-ff-worl...


RE: how about no?
By Lord 666 on 5/2/2011 5:29:44 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like a M3 coupe... horrible. The Bentley GT is also a 4 passenger, much classier lines than that Italian sperm.


RE: how about no?
By Spuke on 5/2/2011 5:35:06 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't look anything like a M3. Where did you get your eyes?


RE: how about no?
By Nfarce on 5/2/2011 8:17:20 PM , Rating: 2
I think he meant the Z3 M Coupe (the entire design concept was always butt ugly IMO)...

http://www.carsbase.com/photo/photo_full.php?id=10...


RE: how about no?
By Lord 666 on 5/2/2011 9:43:59 PM , Rating: 2
Correct, was thinking of the z3 m coupe.


RE: how about no?
By Spuke on 5/3/2011 11:20:20 AM , Rating: 2
Oh, gotcha.


RE: how about no?
By Lord 666 on 5/2/2011 9:48:06 PM , Rating: 2
Even funnier is the price of gas in that pic. It's been a while since they put that pos down. Thanks for the follow up. Still have the g35?


RE: how about no?
By Nfarce on 5/3/2011 2:01:28 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, the G is still going well at ~60k miles (and paid off, lol). Looking at moving up to a 335i now however.


RE: how about no?
By bug77 on 5/3/2011 7:12:02 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Porsche and "4 door sedan" just don't go together in my mind.


What about Porsche and VW engine?


Acura pulled off the look
By Jeffk464 on 5/2/2011 12:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
The only car I have seen that has managed to pull off the fastback/hatchback look effectively is Acura. Everything else looks pretty hideous, ironically even the Honda Crosstour which is basically the same as the Acura. The design makes a lot of sense for loading cargo and streamlining, but its tough to pull off styling wise I guess.




Panamera S Hybrid
By ahodge on 5/2/2011 5:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
Wait, so what's the point of this car? The Hybrid version is supposed to get 41.54 mpg (imp) and does 0-60 in 5.7 sec. So...Why the diesel that is slower and gets worse fuel economy?




Tweaks
By FredEx on 5/2/2011 5:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'd like to see what this car can do with some tweaking and some aftermarket massages. I've seen great gains with diesel engines in friends vehicles, cars to trucks. Most often better mileage along with better performance.




Can't fix ugly?
By nct on 5/3/2011 12:58:33 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe I'm the lone voice of dissent, but I think it's a pretty nice looking vehicle (maybe I'm not alone, it was the best-selling model for Porsche in its first year of production). For all you enthusiasts basing your opinion solely on the internet/car magazines, go look at one in person. The pictures don't do it justice, it's a well-proportioned, elegant looking car in real life. As an added bonus, for those of us who aren't vertically challenged (I'm 6'6"), the cockpit is much more reasonably-sized than a Cayman or 911.

But I agree, the turbo-diesel seems pointless, unless you plan to take long road trips and hate stopping for gas.




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