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Hardware Pioneer Announces $299 Blu-ray Disc Drive
Marcus Yam (Blog) - May 4, 2007 1:33 AM

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39 comment(s) - last by wallijonn.. on May 7 at 1:54 PM

Blu-ray Disc becomes affordable--if you have a computer

Although HD DVD continues to be the leader when it comes to affordable hardware, Pioneer is helping Blu-ray take a step closer towards a lower cost of entry. While not a standalone player, those with capable PCs will be able to watch Blu-ray movies on Pioneer’s upcoming BDC-2202, a Blu-ray Disc computer drive, which will be available to consumers beginning next month for a suggested price of $299.

The BDC-2202 can read BD-ROM/BD-R/BD-RE at up to 5X and can read BD-ROM (DL) and BD-R/-RE (DL) at up to 2X speed. The drive can also read and write digital content to DVD and CD.

“With the BDC-2202, computer savvy consumers are now privy to what was previously only available to professional users. In addition to maintaining the same benefits of current optical disc drives, the included software means users can now enjoy their favorite Blu-ray Disc movies as well as their own personal disc creations,” said Andy Parsons, senior vice president at Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc.

Those with home theatre PCs will likely view the BDC-2202 as a low-cost way of viewing Blu-ray Disc movies. The next cheapest Blu-ray Disc player is the PlayStation 3 at double the price, though it is a standalone solution. The low-cost HD DVD player for HTPC owners is the HD DVD drive for Xbox 360, which is compatible with PCs, at $199. The cheapest HD DVD standalone player, the Toshiba HD-A2 is also double the price at $399.

Despite the pricy hardware, Blu-ray movies have outsold HD DVD consistently in 2007. The most recent tallies see Blu-ray totals surpassing one million, with HD DVD less than 2,000 units behind.

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Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Wellinformed on 5/4/2007 5:59:17 AM , Rating: 3

HD DVD is not just 2,000 disc sales behind. HD DVD is over 260,000 (probably more now) behind Blu-ray disc sales and climbing. When Blu-ray was over a million, it was over 1.2 million discs sold . At that time, HD DVD did not have 998,000 discs sold either. Therefore, saying HD DVD is only 2,000 disc sales behind Blu-ray is a not true and is off by a magnitude of over 100.

Last weeks Nielsen VideoScan numbers were the same as usual. 71% Blu-ray and 29% HD DVD. Blu-ray outsold HD DVD by about 500,000 discs in the first quarter of this year .

There is also a 1080p standalone Blu-ray player for $490 shipped from Amazon. I have not seen a 1080p HD DVD standalone player for that price, yet. The $199 HD DVD add-on drive does not give you the ability to burn DVDs or CDs unlike the $299 Pioneer Blu-ray drive. The Pioneer drive also includes a software suite with their product where as the HD DVD add-on drive does not.

RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By jabber on 5/4/2007 6:37:26 AM , Rating: 5

Still only amounts to about 0.001% of total disc sales worldwide if you take into account DVD sales as well.

Not really that great then is it, for either format?

Personally I cant be bothered with running a PC to watch movies on my TV. Too much hassle and its not very elegant.

Lets start seeing some more sub $300 domestic players and I could be tempted in a year or so.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By bighairycamel on 5/4/2007 7:31:57 AM , Rating: 2

Not very elegant?

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimag...

You can make you're HTPC fit right in with your home theatre system. I second the use of this in the HTPC. Altough, I wonder how this will work with HDCP. You'ld likely need to have an HDCP compliant video card to use this drive.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By jabber on 5/4/2007 8:46:40 AM , Rating: 2

When I say elegant I guess I mean hassle. I have to set the PC up, make sure its compatible with HDCP etc. Does it have the right HDMI (sound or no sound) from the graphics. Then I have to have the right decoding software/drivers, boot it up maybe, click click click, noise etc.

If I just buy the appropriate standalone player its usually -

Plug in, switch on, open/close drawer and press play.

Just seems simpler to me and thats just what I want in my living room.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By h0kiez on 5/4/2007 9:41:45 AM , Rating: 4

Let's just hope you don't want to watch or record any HDTV from cable/SAT on that thing...or watch on demand. People always talk about what a great idea HTPCs are and conveniently leave out this tiny little detail about the fact that there's still no decent way to watch or record HD content (other than OTA) on it. Being able to put cheap 500GB hard drives in an HTPC is nice, but totally unnecessary for recording standard def content. HTPCs will always be a tiny niche for very few until 2-way cablecards are available and less of a circus to setup than they were in the relatively recent AT article.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By CorrND on 5/4/2007 12:27:13 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Altough, I wonder how this will work with HDCP.

The easiest way is to get an AMD 690G motherboard with an HDMI output. You can get them as low as $75 right now. Pair it up with a Brisbane 4400+ (and all the other nuts and bolts) and you've got a sweet, quiet, HD-DVD/Blu-ray capable HTPC for a pretty modest price.

Also, h0kiez, you're basically pointing out the only thing an HTPC can't do. Mine is used for Rhapsody music, downloaded TV shows (in full HD these days), HD-DVD playback, and unencrypted QAM HD-PVR capability (that's over the cable line, not OTA). I'll probably add Blu-ray at some point once the drives come down around $200. Others outfit theirs for gaming on their HDTVs. If all you want out of an HTPC is HD-PVR capability, then you should just get a box from your TV provider; it'll be much cheaper.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Sunrise089 on 5/4/2007 7:32:33 AM , Rating: 4

Did you just type with a straight face that the ability of the BlueRay drive to write DVDs and CDs was a selling point? Honestly, irregardless of whatever standard is better, do ANY of the potential audiance for a $300 disk reader for a PC that requires a high-end processor not have a DVD-RW drive? Didn't think so.

The real issue is simple - the two standards are exactly the same, but HDDVD is $100 cheaper for PC folks, and BlueRay is seemingly less likely to go away. So buy HDDVD if you think it will stick around, and BlueRay if you want to play it safe.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By PrinceGaz on 5/4/2007 8:58:57 AM , Rating: 2

I have to agree with you.

More to the point, would anyone in their right mind actually use a $300 drive to burn DVDs and CDs if they have a $30 drive that can do the job just as well. From a simple wear-and-tear point of view, you'd be crazy to use an expensive BluRay (or HD-DVD) drive for any task that can be performed on alternative hardware a tenth of the cost instead.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By masher2

(blog) on 5/4/2007 11:53:39 AM , Rating: 2

> "would anyone in their right mind actually use a $300 drive to burn DVDs and CDs..."

I burned plenty of CDs on my first $900 DVD-burner-- I took out the cheap CD burner when I installed it. I'm sure a lot of people who buy this unit will prefer a single-drive solution as well.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By EclipsedAurora on 5/5/07, Rating: 0

RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By theapparition on 5/5/2007 8:38:27 AM , Rating: 2

My first CD burner was over $3000. It was SCSI and ran at 1X speed. If you have a need, and the price is worth it, you'll pay. Back in the day, it was worth it, even at the price.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Flunk on 5/4/2007 10:25:24 AM , Rating: 2

I disagree, I'm building a new SFF computer in July and a combo Blue Ray/DVD writer is just what I want.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Shadowself on 5/4/2007 11:53:21 AM , Rating: 2

"The real issue is simple - the two standards are exactly the same, but HDDVD is $100 cheaper for PC folks, and BlueRay is seemingly less likely to go away. So buy HDDVD if you think it will stick around, and BlueRay if you want to play it safe."

This is flatly *not* true.

Technically, Blu-ray has two significant things going for it: volume and max data rate. (There are more technical resons for Blu-ray over HD DVD, but I'll just go into what I believe are the top two.)

Blu-ray is shipping 50GB drives and HD DVD is shipping 30GB drives. Take one example film: Lord of the Ring, Return of the King, Extended Edition. At 250 minutes that means HD DVD is limited to 16 Mbps for *both* video and sound. Even with today's best compression schemes that's poor video and sound. Not quite what you'd expect on a next generation optical format. (Sure Toshiba has said they will submit a 51GB format to the HD DVD group by the end of this year -- likely to show up mid next year, but conversely the Blu-ray companies have demonstrated 100GB and 200GB disks which they claimed will be submitted to their group and available in the same time frame.)

Also Blu-ray has a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbps while HD DVD has a maximum of 30 Mbps. There are a few videos out now that have average bit rates exceeding 30 Mbps on Blu-ray even using the better encodes (AVC and VC-1 -- I'm *not* talking about the MPEG-2 encodes!). There are several where the average bit rate is over 25 Mbps -- thus the peak bit rate is over HD DVD's limit of 30 Mbps. Clearly this means that on several movies HD DVD is bit starved.

Yes, the HD DVD stand alone players are a bit cheaper today, but a year or so from now I expect them to be within $50 of each other. With that little difference, why get stuck with a technically poorer format?

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Eris23007 on 5/4/2007 12:23:27 PM , Rating: 2

"Whoop-de-f**king-doo"

All the technical arguments in the world will not save a poorly marketed format. See exhibit one: Betamax. Superior in virtually every technical arena; lost in the marketplace due to stupid marketing decisions by Sony.

I'm not saying that Blu-ray can't or won't win (in fact, I think Sony has learned enough from the Betamax fiasco that they've subtlely changed their approach *just* enough that they *might* be able to pull it off... but barely if at all). I'm just saying that all the crap about how wonderful Blu-ray is from a technical perspective is unfortunately not very relevant to its market success.

The people who will determine the winning format are not the tech-savvy early adopters. Those who determine the winning format will be the (mostly) tech-ignorant mass market.

Personally, despite my 720p 106" front projector, I've decided to wait on the whole Blu-ray/HD-DVD decision until the prices come down and it becomes clear whether and/or which one format will "win". If it gets to the point where most studios start putting out movies in both formats, then and only then will I likely choose Blu-ray due to its technical superiority.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Oregonian2 on 5/4/2007 2:14:34 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
All the technical arguments in the world will not save a poorly marketed format. See exhibit one: Betamax. Superior in virtually every technical arena; lost in the marketplace due to stupid marketing decisions by Sony.

Very wrong. It had a deadly technical problem in the beginning. It could only handle 1 hour per tape. Couldn't do an unattended recording of a movie (and even attended would have a gap when rushing to change tapes manually). VHS did not have this technical flaw. Choice was easy. Sony did not want to compromise its video quality to make that video useful. Forest trees problem.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By CorrND on 5/4/2007 12:37:35 PM , Rating: 2

You don't think they'd just make LOTR (or similarly long movies) a double-sided or two-disc set rather than sacrifice video and audio quality? Lord knows you need a break (or 16) in the middle of LOTR.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By AlexWade on 5/4/07, Rating: 0

RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By alifbaa on 5/4/2007 4:41:27 PM , Rating: 1

I was thinking the same thing as soon as I read that. It was a little too polished, and he never responded to his posts. Plus, what kind of name is "wellinformed?" Sony has gotten in trouble for viral marketing in the past, and it's definitely not beneath them to do this kind of thing.

Whatever. It's just another example of Sony's love affair with shady business practices.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By BornStar on 5/4/2007 9:11:33 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
There is also a 1080p standalone Blu-ray player for $490 shipped from Amazon. I have not seen a 1080p HD DVD standalone player for that price, yet.

You obviously haven't been looking that hard. The HD-A20 is available from Amazon for $415 and is 1080p.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By masher2

(blog) on 5/4/2007 12:54:09 PM , Rating: 3

> "The HD-A20 is available from Amazon for $415 and is 1080p. "

1080p output is honestly a nonissue. The BD players take a 1080p24 signal, convert it to 1080i60, then deinterlace to 1080p30. The 1080i-based HD-DVD players skip the last step, but the full image data is still retained in the output signal. Unless your HDTV does something insane during its own deinterlacing, the image quality is going to be identical in either case.

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RE: Inaccurate Information On Disc Sales

By Oregonian2 on 5/4/2007 2:17:14 PM , Rating: 1

In which case the $300 Toshiba unit would be fine.

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Yep

By Kooky Krusher on 5/4/2007 5:25:43 AM , Rating: 2

Now we're talking. Keep this up and I'll just decide to buy a new 30" monitor and a new computer instead of buying a new lcd HDTV and a stand alone player.

RE: Yep

By Noya on 5/4/2007 7:27:37 AM , Rating: 2

Watching a 2-hour 1080p movie is kind of a waste on a 30" screen unless you're 3' feet away. 1080p is best served on a large screen that can truly take advantage of showing the resolution. Not to mention most are 2.35:1, cutting the screen picture size even more.

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RE: Yep

By darkavatar on 5/6/2007 1:18:09 PM , Rating: 2

huh???
As long as there's at least 1920x1080 pixels on my monitor, why can't I see the extra resolution? As I always say, bigger screen != bigger resolution.

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RE: Yep

By Ajax9000 on 5/6/2007 8:20:12 PM , Rating: 2

Because the human eye has a limit to it's resolving power.
Without getting into the technicalities, this is a nice graph of the matter:
http://www.carltonbale.com/wp-content/uploads/reso...

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RE: Yep

By wallijonn on 5/7/2007 1:54:57 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Watching a 2-hour 1080p movie is kind of a waste on a 30" screen unless you're 3' feet away. 1080p is best served on a large screen that can truly take advantage of showing the resolution. Not to mention most are 2.35:1, cutting the screen picture size even more.

If I zoom in to fill the screen, I think that I would want the highest possible resolution so that the ensuing video still looks good. (Think the shows that are shown in 1080i but boxed. Then I have to zoom in to make it fill the screen. Oh, that doesn't happen with movies? Try watching "True Lies" or "Kama Sutra".)

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Stupid Question...

By Rotkiv on 5/4/2007 12:24:51 PM , Rating: 2

I realize that this is a lazey question, but are HD-DVDs and BlueRay discs divided into PAL and NTSC formats?

RE: Stupid Question...

By Oregonian2 on 5/4/2007 2:32:53 PM , Rating: 2

HDTV isn't "NTSC" although devices may output that format as well (converted). "NTSC" is the non-high def format.

In the US and a few other countries, "ATSC" is the new standard. Most of the rest of the world including Europe uses "DVB" as the PAL replacement. I think. Not sure how different they are in the digital realm (like over HDMI), but the RF broadcasting part is very different (optimized for different purposes I think).

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RE: Stupid Question...

By plonk420 on 5/4/2007 5:18:20 PM , Rating: 2

in essence, i think he's asking if there still is 60/30/24 fps and 50/25fps. and yes there is.

what i want to know is what the interface is if it's IDE/ATA(PI) or SATA/eSATA

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RE: Stupid Question...

By elpresidente2075 on 5/4/2007 8:26:35 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
what i want to know is what the interface is if it's IDE/ATA(PI) or SATA/eSATA

All three, eventually. Right now just two. I would assume the same for HD DVD eventually. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...

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HD-DVD Drive

By L33tMasta on 5/4/2007 4:42:08 AM , Rating: 2

Now if only they would release an HD-DVD Drive that can burn.

RE: HD-DVD Drive

By Visual on 5/4/2007 6:44:12 AM , Rating: 2

there's one for the highend toshiba laptops
but i dont see why anyone would want it, for pc data storage/archival the lower capacity and higher media price per capacity of hddvd are a big turnoff.
blu-ray all the way! there are many brands out already with prices under $600, liteon even has for $530, and they'll keep getting cheaper.

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BD-R

By javira on 5/4/2007 9:23:41 AM , Rating: 2

There is a BD-R drive by Sony on sale at BestBuy for $480. That's cheaper than the PS3 and it allows me to archive Hi Def video footage. Also as mentioned on Tom's Hardware the AACS has not turned on the IC token so your hardware does not (yet) have to be fully HDCP compliant to watch Blue Ray discs at full 1080P.

upconverting dvd players still ok on 720p/1080i

By nerdye on 5/5/2007 9:56:30 PM , Rating: 2

Sure hd-dvd and blue-ray players look better and are technically far superior in every way than an a 1080i up converting dvd player, but 50-70$ will get you a low end up converting dvd player that will look pretty darn good on a 720p or 1080i hdtv. I'm still for up converting while the format wars continue.