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  (Source: AFP)
NSA says it's acting legally in seizing IM contacts lists, email address books, and even some email text

A new piece in The Washington Post reveals that the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) seized the email and IM contacts lists of 700,000+ accounts daily in 2012, including Americans who paid for this surveillance.  Legally the NSA is explicitly verboten from spying against Americans, an activity which is supposedly antithetical to its nationalist mission statement.  But by creatively redefining its own rules, the NSA does not consider what it is doing illegal.

I. "The Assumption [on Foreign Networks] is You're Not an American"

The NSA is supposed to only spy on foreign citizens.

Hence the issue begins with the issue of who is an American.  If a person is an American, it is explicitly illegal to monitor them within the U.S., as that's forbidden under the laws that govern the NSA.  However, if you're an American overseas you enter a grey area of the law.  Technically it still seems against the spirit of the agency and similar to the explicitly forbidden spying within the U.S.; but overseas spying on American citizens isn't explicitly forbidden either.

The NSA has already made it clear that "accidentally" breaking the law thousands of times a year, by illegally spying on Americans who it has the data to know are within the U.S.

Now these fresh disclosures show what could be a mere tip of the iceberg.

Autonomy poster
Replace "80%" with "99%" and this graphic starts to describe the NSA's efforts to illegal spy on Americans. [Image Source: Autonomy]

Ideally, if Congress hasn't granted the power in such grey areas -- but also hasn't explicitly forbidden it -- the agency is left to weigh how critical such an effort is, versus potential ethical and Constitutional issues.

When it comes to overseas surveillance, the NSA is playing a clever game, conveniently saying that it can seizing much more data from Americans by simply claiming that it assumes you're a foreigner.


The Washington Post says that an official acknowledges that the NSA maintains a variety of overseas digital collection points, and asserts that if your data is intercepted there that "the assumption is you're not a U.S. person.”

II. Technically Flawed Argument Boosts Illegal Objectives

At this point you might think "okay, well that only applies to international travellers, and I mostly stay in the country, so my data is safe."

But there you would be wrong.  You see, the NSA not only applies it's guesswork logic to instances where a person is physically in a foreign country and utilizing digital infrastructure there (say a cell phone tower), they also apply it even if you're in the U.S. and merely communicating with foreign servers.

NSA
The NSA assumes if your data passes through foreign servers, that you're a foreigner and it can feast on it. [Image Source: KnowYourMeme]

The NSA is essentially claiming that Congress does tell it to collect data in this way, as it assumes any data in a foreign country is from foreigners.  The central premise here is that for the most part no foreign data exists on a nation's domestic network.

Many companies like Google Inc. (GOOG) mirror your domestic data on their secure global servers in order to provide consistent service.  In other words, you may be in a U.S. and you may be using a widely used U.S. service, but because of how that service is implemented, the NSA in its warped logic assumes you're not a citizen.

Yahoo!
Yahoo! proved the most vulnerable to spying, due to its large user base and historic lack of SSL encryption. [Image Source: Inquirer]

If the NSA can make the case that by mining a nation's networks it is monitoring "a valid foreign intelligence target in and of itself", it considers that enough to start interception.  Of the 700,000+ email contacts lists grabbed last year, Yahoo! Inc. (YHOO) accounted for the biggest share (444,743), with Facebook, Inc. (FB) (82,857), and Google's Gmail (33,697) somewhat farther back.

In addition to email contacts lists, for web clients like Gmail and Yahoo! Mail it can also collect the first few lines of email in some case, along with the email header which includes who sent and received the message.  And it collects 500,000+ IM contact lists, on average per day.

In total the documents indicate the NSA collects hundreds of millions of email contacts list, inbox scrapes, and IM lists.  This makes it highly probably that the NSA uses its "not an American" assumption to seize the personal information of a large percentage of Americans, particularly when you consider that some of the most popular services in regions like China and Europe aren't even mentioned in the report.

In fact, in a perhaps telling sign, the NSA's seizures primarily have targeted not foreigners, but the services that are most popular domestically (e.g. Gmail, Yahoo!).

III. NSA Accidentally Spams Itself

For beleaguered U.S. citizens, there may be silver lining to this part of the NSA's cloud spying scheme; spam email -- normally an annoyance-- may actually be welcome countermeasure against the NSA reading through your emails.  

Because the NSA grabs the such a significant chunk of text from Americans' and foreigners' unencrypted emails records the NSA is being smacked with storage shortfalls, as it can keep up with all the spam email that it's accidentally seized.  The volume of spam has forced the NSA to reportedly institute "emergency detasking" orders, where it wipes some of its data stockpile to allow more new data to come in.

Spam
The NSA has been accidentally seizing your spam. [Image Source: MSNBC]

Yahoo's higher interception rate is speculated to be possibly due to its late implementation of SSL, an encryption mechanism that makes it harder for the NSA to break into your email.  The NSA and criminals who engage in online theft bear certain similarities; for starters they both hate encryption.  The NSA has spent $250M USD reportedly in U.S. taxpayer money to try to weaken international encryption, which leaves you more vulnerable to identity theft and other forms of hacking, but makes it easier to spy on you.

The Gmail address books are particularly interesting as it's been widely publicized that Google mirrors your data, while it's less clear whether Yahoo! and Facebook are engaging in such activities.

Notably the NSA does not have to notify companies like Yahoo!, Facebook, or Google that it's seizing their data, nor does it have to get a warrant, court order, or other official legal mechanism, aside from its blanket self-authorization.  By seizing the data at a lower level (likely at regional data routing hubs) the NSA can feast on a buffet of data without ever having to pay a notice to the companies whose users are being targeted.
  

fiber optics
The NSA directly scrapes data off cable hubs. [Image Source: AP]

This obviously makes data seizure much easier, as companies are unable to fight against what they don't know.  Many companies like Google have successfully fought similar seizure attempts on Americans' data in either secret or public courts.

The NSA
The NSA cleverly realized that citizens and companies can't fight being spied upon if they don't know about it.  Unfortunately for it, they now know about it. [Image Source: NYPost]

As with past leaks, this leak came courtesy of Edward Snowden, the former NSA contractor who now faces criminal charges for revealing to Americans the extent they're being spied upon.  Despite these charges, Mr. Snowden has garnered a great deal of support, even winning an award from former CIA operatives.

His latest publication follows information published earlier this month, which revealed that the NSA was building databases to track the real world identities of Americans' friends along with their locations, this specialist system was estimated in internal documents to seize 20 billion metadata records a day, giving the NSA the power to know who your wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. are.

Sources: The Washington Post, NSA via Intellipedia/The Washington Post



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This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

I would like to know...
By FaaR on 10/15/2013 4:22:10 PM , Rating: 5
...In the light of all this new information (and previous revelations), if Edward Snowden still is a traitor (or at least, more of a traitor than the NSA and its superiors in the US federal gov't), according to the zealot blowhards here on dailytech who named him that when news of his defection first came.

Would be interesting to know what reasoning is used to justify calling him a traitor - if any, that is.




RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By retrospooty on 10/15/2013 4:58:27 PM , Rating: 4
I am not saying he went about it in the right way, but our govt. is violating one of the major points in the constitution by spying and monitoring what we do without warrants. I am glad its out in the open. It's absolutly disgusting what is going on and the intrusive nature of how we are being monitored. It goes against everything this country is supposed to stand for... And the most irritating thing is the asshats that defend it in the name of security... Keeping us safe from the boogyman. Ugh.


RE: I would like to know...
By heffeque on 10/15/2013 6:41:14 PM , Rating: 2
True... I still don't know why the NSA is reading my email and copying my contacts and who the hell gave them permission.

I'm sure people all around the world are not very pleased to hear that their emails, contacts and privacy as a whole are being stolen by the United States. If I didn't have US nationality I'd probably be saying something like "spy your own people and leave the rest of us alone".


RE: I would like to know...
By Aloonatic on 10/15/2013 5:13:53 PM , Rating: 2
It is so sad to see people who are (I am assuming) reasonably intelligent so easily cowed and corralled into thinking the way that you do and have had their view of the world to tightly controlled that you blinkers do not let you even contemplate that there is a bigger picture. :o(


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By ebakke on 10/15/2013 5:42:25 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Do I honestly care that it does? No.
:(


RE: I would like to know...
By jtemplin on 10/15/2013 6:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
I like privacy.

That said, its kind of funny that as a purported internet privacy advocate; it is you who is the one broadcasting their emotional state--ordinarily the status of ones emotional state is regarded as fairly private information.

Not trying to troll. It just happened to remind of Cartman in the recent South Park episode complaining about NSA while broadcasting his thoughts openly. :)


RE: I would like to know...
By Adonlude on 10/23/2013 12:32:30 PM , Rating: 2
And Snowden was just giving away information. Imagine actually physically banding together and making war against your government after declaring independance.


RE: I would like to know...
By ritualm on 10/15/2013 6:15:13 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Until such a time as people are having the government drop by and execute a search and seizure of their private residence without a search warrant, I'm not concerned.

That's what they all say when the NSA proclaimed it's targeting foreigners. They don't care as long as it's not happening on themselves.

By the time it's actually happening on them, it is already too late to do anything about it, as all the people around you would use the same mindset as you do and care less than ask who just got kicked off "Dancing with the Stars" last night.
quote:
The constitution wasn't written with the Internet in mind.

Does this give the NSA carte blanche on gross Constitutional violations to get what it wants? Hell no it doesn't.
quote:
Do not compare sniffing internet traffic with kicking in someone's door and taking their household goods at gunpoint. The latter of which is what the constitution was written to protect you against.

But because of various laws enacted in the wake of September 11, 2001, the Constitution will not protect you from authorities barging into your homes unannounced, threatening you at gunpoint, and seizing all of your belongings sans warrant.

You are delusional.


RE: I would like to know...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/15/2013 6:21:14 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The constitution wasn't written with the Internet in mind.


You should excuse yourself from this discussion and go back to the kids table. Now.


RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:10:16 PM , Rating: 3
I'm agreeing with reclaimer. The apocalypse is at hand :)


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By snhoj on 10/15/2013 10:02:46 PM , Rating: 4
Godwins law at work.


RE: I would like to know...
By tamalero on 10/16/2013 12:52:23 AM , Rating: 2
Why are you implying that this problem only affects the internet?


RE: I would like to know...
By NellyFromMA on 10/16/2013 10:05:04 AM , Rating: 2
So, are you suggesting that people who aren't tech savvy are naïve now? Tech snobbery at its worst...


RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
Or maybe put a stop to it BEFORE it reaches the point of illegal search and seizure. Hiding your head in the sand is only making it worse. It is people like you that allowed things to get where they are now.


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/16/2013 6:50:30 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not American, so I can only overthrow your government through invasion. I'm not sure how far I'd get as a one man army. Of course, it is kinda late now to do much about the problem through voting, but if people didn't have your "as long as it doesn't affect me" attitude decades ago, the slow creep to fascism could have been stopped.


RE: I would like to know...
By Jeffk464 on 10/16/2013 7:04:51 PM , Rating: 3
Why invade? Just stand back an watch the US implode on its own.


RE: I would like to know...
By tamalero on 10/16/2013 12:51:20 AM , Rating: 1
Funny, because a lot of laws had to be bended, edited, upgraded or created to support the new digital world.
Why they cant amend the constitution to affect the digital world too?


RE: I would like to know...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2013 7:31:28 AM , Rating: 5
Except that is happening. Your digital private property being searched without a warrant is the same as your physical private property being searched without a warrant under the eyes of the law.


RE: I would like to know...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2013 7:34:18 AM , Rating: 4
The constitution was written with private property in mind. That includes digital property. Otherwise the government can confiscate anything you've purchased that is in digital format. Music, movies, books, etc. What if the government decided it wanted to destroy certain ideas? Should it be allowed to do so simply because computers didn't exist at the time of the founders? No.


RE: I would like to know...
By NellyFromMA on 10/16/2013 10:03:44 AM , Rating: 3
It seems quite strange that your perspective as described implies that anything not originally thought of by our founding fathers is essentially free game. The world evolves, especially with the rapid pace of our technological advances. The constitution MUST be applied to all domestic issues in our PRESENT DAY, even if our founding fathers didn't envision the computer or the internet. To suggest that our constitution doesn't protect us from invasion of our private lives, and not even attempt to apply analogies is poor citizenship.

Snooping and logging our activities online IS akin to illegal search and seizure of our homes AND our articles. Suggesting otherwise is sacrificing the freedoms and protections the constitution ALREADY grants us.


RE: I would like to know...
By deathwombat on 10/15/2013 5:25:02 PM , Rating: 5
Doing the right thing should never be against the law. If it is, the law needs to be changed.

If your employer was breaking the law, you would be absolutely right to steal the evidence. In fact, it should be illegal to not report knowledge of a crime. Joe Paterno never raped a child (as far as I know), but he had reason to believe that Jerry Sandusky did, and he failed to report what he knew about that. When you fail to report a crime, you allow the criminal activity to continue, which makes you an accomplice.

I don't care who your employer is. If your employer is breaking the law, you have a duty to do something about it. Failing to report crime is a path to the Dark Side, Master Kenobi. A Jedi should know better.


RE: I would like to know...
By ebakke on 10/15/2013 5:38:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
When you fail to report a crime, you allow the criminal activity to continue, which makes you an accomplice.
As long as we're talking about actual crimes. As in actions that harm another human, physically or economically. I never want to be held liable for not reporting a victimless crimes against the state (like not wearing a seatbelt).

Clearly your Paterno/Sandusky example qualifies. Just saying, we don't want to create a bunch of brownshirts who are blindly reporting their neighbors to the state.


RE: I would like to know...
By Manch on 10/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By slickr on 10/15/2013 5:52:07 PM , Rating: 5
Stop with the bullshit, you, me and everyone else knows the FBI wouldn't and couldn't do anything about it, since its congressional and court authority, if anything the FBI would have likely arrested Snowden and none of the revelations about the criminality and fraud and deceit and corruption going on at the NSA would have seen the light of day.

Everyone knows what they are doing is illegal, unconstitutional, treasonous, criminal, corrupt, but they don't care because the American people are the enemy to these foreign interests that have taken over the USA federal government.


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By JediJeb on 10/16/2013 3:29:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If it's got full congressional and court authority... then by definition it is legal.


Not entirely so. Many things that congress and courts have said are legal have be struck down by the Supreme Court as being unconstitutional. It may be written in law, but if it violates the constitution then it is still not legal.

Our biggest problem today is we have judges, congressmen, and politicians that collude to take it upon themselves to completely reinterpret the constitution to fit their own needs instead of the needs of the citizens of the US. The constitution was written as much if not more to protect the average citizen of the US more than to empower the government. We the People, have forgotten(or just not been taught) that we are the government, not the handful of self righteous wanna be "Elites" who are currently in positions of public service who think the public should serve them.

Why does it seem that every elected official thinks they are somehow an elected monarchy these days?


RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:12:17 PM , Rating: 2
How naive. Go to the very government that is breaking the law to report law breaking? If he had done that, we would never have seen him again.


RE: I would like to know...
By PontiusP on 10/15/2013 7:12:36 PM , Rating: 2
Kenobi, I'm going to assume you're now entering into the world of comedy.

He could have reported it through the proper channels? Are you SERIOUS?!?

This administration is more anti-whistleblower than any in history and you expect people to go through the proper channels? Stand-up comedy would be a good gig for you.


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/16/2013 6:53:29 AM , Rating: 1
Who the fuck is gonna die because he let the average dumbass know how much your own government hold you in contempt. It isn't like he leaked names of people who helped US forces in Afghanistan or something like that.


RE: I would like to know...
By JediJeb on 10/16/2013 3:35:43 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Proper channels exist for a reason. If we just assume proper channels are always a waste of time and exist for no reason whatsoever, then by all means lets get rid of them and save some money on the budget.


I guess Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin should have taken their problems with the British Government up to Parliament and King George. That would have been the proper channels for that instead of declaring independence and starting a war. I am sure that the British Government would have smiled and just let them have their way and granted the colonist fair taxes and laws to make up for what they had taken from them in the past.


RE: I would like to know...
By NellyFromMA on 10/16/2013 10:05:52 AM , Rating: 2
What? Report to the entities for which communications are ALSO monitored by the offending body? What?


RE: I would like to know...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2013 7:38:08 AM , Rating: 2
You are free to do the right thing. It will not always be legal though. If someone cheats you, is it then legal to break into their house and steal from them?

And whistleblower laws don't protect you if you put all the information out for the whole world to see. Especially when its national security secrets that you're giving directly to foreign nations. You turn the evidence over to the authorities. Now yes you have to hope they're going to do the right thing with it.


RE: I would like to know...
By lexluthermiester on 10/20/2013 4:47:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You turn the evidence over to the authorities.
quote:
hope they're going to do the right thing with it.


That is at the very root of why Snowden made the choices he made. The "proper authorities" would have buried it and hung him out to dry. His actions were his ONLY choice. If the NSA didn't want it's secret aired for the world to see, they should have not have committed the crimes they have. And as Obama has directed much of their activities, ultimately he is very much the criminal as well, which make HIM the traitor, much like Bush before him. We haven't had a decent, honorable President since Reagan.

Something else to reflect upon, King George considered our founding fathers to be traitors to the crown. Most see them as the courageous heroes they're considered to be. Snowden aired the NSA's dirty secrets, and more need to follow his excellent example. He is a hero, much like our founding fathers, in my opinion..


RE: I would like to know...
By lexluthermiester on 10/20/2013 4:33:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't care who your employer is. If your employer is breaking the law, you have a duty to do something about it.


Well said!

quote:
Failing to report crime is a path to the Dark Side, Master Kenobi. A Jedi should know better.


"Master Kenobi" in the posting of this artcile has proven himself to be little more than a egotistical, narcissistic fascist. Wait, I missed something... a pathetic , clueless , egotistical, narcissistic fascist.

Please do not insult George Lucas and the ideals of the Jedi order by implying this dolt is a one of them, whether in jest or in seriousness!


RE: I would like to know...
By ritualm on 10/15/2013 6:07:21 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Failure to safeguard protected information.

What protected information? When a large majority of so-called terror plots against the US homeland are actually FBI sting operations, exactly what sort of foreign threat is so omnipresent it requires an overzealous surveillance system to counter?

Oh right, you can't name one, private.
quote:
Failure to properly handle confidential information.

What oath did you swear by when you joined the armed forces, Master Kenobi? The confidentiality agreement, or defending the US Constitution? They are mutually exclusive.

Also, when those confidential information involved what amounted to blatant warrantless wiretapping by the state, is it so confidential that it requires using the tired old "matters of national security" as an excuse to not disclose any of it?
quote:
Distribution of sensitive information to people without the appropriate access levels or need to know.

Who do you think would be really interested in exposing this bullshit?

Politicians? Very few of them care, especially if your name is not Rand Paul. The rest of them simply toe the Administration's line and say you cannot do it, even though it is wrong not to.

Media? Knowing that a huge majority of them are sympathetic to President Obama, and actively enforce self-censorship to avoid angering the White House?

Your superiors? They would rather do nothing because they'd lose their jobs by exposing this crap. Or worse... they make you serve several decades behind bars for doing the "right" thing.

This sort of information requires blowing the lid off. Confidentiality my a-hole. If I am being spied on against my will regardless of what I am doing right now, I have a right to know.
quote:
it was against the law

Whose laws? Nobody in any level of the US government abides by the same rules it imposes on everyone else. Example: lying to members of a Congressional hearing under oath is punishable by perjury. James Clapper did just that and he was not punished.

Again, Master Kenobi, since you sound so well-informed on this subject, whose laws? The NSA doesn't even honor a single US law being imposed onto them.
quote:
Just because I don't agree with what my company does, does that give me the right to steal all of their corporate secrets and distribute it to the world?

Yep, as an one-hundred-percent obedient soldier, willing to do every bit of dirty work imposed by his superiors, and willingly feign innocence during war crimes trials that "I was only following orders".
quote:
He broke the law

He broke tyrannical laws to defend the US Constitution from all foreign and domestic threats. Ergo, he didn't break any laws.
quote:
You don't get a free pass to break the rules you signed when you were hired just because you feel it's the "right thing to do".

For the level of blind obedience you're showing towards Uncle Sam, your punishments are far more severe than what Edward Snowden will face for the rest of his life.

As an active-duty member of the armed forces, you are not only dumber than a brick, you also seemingly place more importance in defending the despicable acts of your government than actually defending the very US Constitution you have sworn to protect.

Or to make this even simpler for you to understand:
You are an idiot.


RE: I would like to know...
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
So if your company was working with the Mafia or with terrorists, it would be wrong to steal the data to give to the police? You are just the good little pawn the government and corporations love. Sometimes the computer is NOT your friend.


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: I would like to know...
By ritualm on 10/15/2013 11:58:41 PM , Rating: 2
When the government is literally playing like the Mafia and Terrorists it's trying its damned hardest to "protect" us from, it's a crime to disclose that information? What a leap of logic you have there.
quote:
No, I think I will turn said information over to the correct authorities and let them take over from there.

When those authorities are literally in bed with the same organizations you're legitimately trying to raise a fuss over, what's going to happen? Most likely scenario, they take your "disclosure" and ignore it as if nothing was ever filed. Worst case scenario, they arrest you, level Espionage Act charges against you, and put you behind bars until you're deemed harmless by the government in charge.

When the average response time of the police actually responding to a distressed 911 call is 10-15 minutes, what are you going to trust more? Honor the law, not trying to take matters into your own hands, and possibly face death because you choose to do exactly nothing... or your guns, defend tooth and nail, including and not limited to using Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground against your assailant(s)?

When the government is the source of wrongdoing, why would you think telling the FBI will do anything constructive? It won't. Stop living in a dream, retard.
quote:
I don't need my 15 minutes of fame as a whistleblower to feel justified in my actions.

Not quite so. There are no claims to fame involved with the Snowden Leaks. There is, however, a very uncomfortable truth: the remaining former-superpower is also the biggest computer hacker in the world. Why trust USA when it's actively hacking into your information systems under the disguise of national security?

Every government needs blindly obedient sheep to do its bidding. You fit right in there.

Watching you defend the despicable actions of your government - even when YOU are fully aware how utterly unconstitutional and illegal they are - is like watching testerguy2 and Tony Swash defend Apple to their last breath. Pathetic human refuse, unworthy of an imaginary Jedi, never mind an active US Army service member.


RE: I would like to know...
By PontiusP on 10/15/2013 7:10:24 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, he violated the immediate laws governing the agency he worked in. There is however, a law at a higher level which supersedes all of those laws. It's called the Constitution. Therefore, what he did was not illegal.

Honestly, I can't believe there are people who are so brainwashed into the cult of government worship that they actually think like you. I'm serious, it boggles my mind. The only explanation I can think of is that they pay you to come shill here.

Oh, did you hear that one? They are hiring paid shills to post pro-government misinformation lies on message boards. Chances are, you're one of them.


RE: I would like to know...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 7:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
Please enlighten me to the section of the constitution that says what he did was not illegal. I'm pretty sure you won't find one.


RE: I would like to know...
By boobo on 10/15/2013 9:44:53 PM , Rating: 2
Please enlighten me to the section of the constitution that says that every illegal action must be punished, no matter how much harm to the nation it prevents.


RE: I would like to know...
By boobo on 10/15/2013 9:40:09 PM , Rating: 2
I'm actually a bit puzzled. It's not usual for someone who has proven time and time again to have a very sophisticated thought process, like you have, to see an issue as complex as this one in such simple terms.

Surely, you can't see the handling of protected information as a some kind of end-all supreme value. Otherwise, all that an enemy spy who infiltrated the government would have to do would be to write a document saying, "I'm a spy" and set it as top secret. Then, nobody could do anything against him because it would violate the info's top secrecy. Surely, if you find out that your boss is an enemy spy, you can run through the streets shouting it at the top of your lungs, even if he set it as confidential.

If you don't agree with what your company does, does that give you the right to steal all of their corporate secrets? If your company is secretly making chemical weapons or exporting encryption keys to Iran, I'd say absolutely! Not only is it your right, it is your duty to expose your company in such cases. The country agrees; that's why the whistleblower protection laws were created.

I understand if you don't see what the NSA did as being comparable to being an enemy spy or making illegal WMDs. I can even understand (though not agree) that you would approve of their secret monitorings. However, you have got to see that a reasonable, patriotic American could conceivably see it as a serious-enough violation of the constitution and of the rights of millions of Americans to feel that it was his duty to expose it. That can't be considered treason. At least, not in a way that is labeled "Easy."


RE: I would like to know...
By tamalero on 10/16/2013 12:50:18 AM , Rating: 1
didn't he agreed to protect the nation from threats, domestic or foreign?
he actually did by revealing illegal wiretapping.
because I do not think the NSA is "the nation".


RE: I would like to know...
By MajstorBata on 10/16/2013 3:58:47 AM , Rating: 1
There is something called "whistleblowing" and if it is done for the public good you should be protected by the law.
This was clearly done for public good and no law has been broken.


RE: I would like to know...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2013 7:29:19 AM , Rating: 2
You have to understand Kenobi, there are plenty of people who don't like the absolutes that laws entail because they were taught that there are no absolutes. Everything is relative.

Was Snowden right to blow the whistle? Yes. Was his approach correct? No.


RE: I would like to know...
By mmatis on 10/16/2013 8:11:17 AM , Rating: 2
His oath, first and foremost, was to the CONSTITUTION. You know, that silly old document which is the source of authority for the US government. He has FULLY COMPLIED with that oath. NOT EVEN ONE of your GD NSA maggots who he exposed has even ATTEMPTED to comply with same. He could not "safeguard protected information" without violating that oath. But then that is clearly too much to comprehend for one of this country's "finest" such as you, who spit on YOUR very oath of office to that same Constitution every day, while you suck those donuts and swill that coffee.


RE: I would like to know...
By Schrag4 on 10/16/2013 11:40:30 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Easy.
-Failure to safeguard protected information.
-Failure to properly handle confidential information.
-Distribution of sensitive information to people without the appropriate access levels or need to know.

Honest question: Had he done everything "correctly," would anyone outside of the Fed Govt heard about any of it? Would any change occur? (Will change occur anyway?)

Or to put it another way, when a govt becomes tyrannical, true patriots are classified as traitors/terrorists by that govt.


RE: I would like to know...
By Namey on 10/17/2013 12:55:42 PM , Rating: 1
Can someone at DT tell the owner of the "Master Kenobi" account, that he got hacked, and that the hacker is sullying his account name?


RE: I would like to know...
By lexluthermiester on 10/17/2013 8:20:08 PM , Rating: 1
Master Kenobi;

Your mentality is so very flawed that it makes me wonder if you have EVER read the constitution of the United States of America. If you have then you CLEARLY do NOT understand it, nor the inspired genius of the men who created it. Either way, you sir, need a clue...

quote:
I don't give a damn why he did it, it was against the law and he knowingly and willfully broke those laws.


It might be true that Mr. Snowden broke a few laws. But are those laws, in full or in part, compliant with the ideals set forth by the constitution? Here's the short answer; No. There is not a single provision within the wording of said document that allows ANY government the authority to circumvent the basic statutory rights of a citizen, even for reasons of national security. The NSA and other government agencies are doing this daily. That makes their actions criminal. Mr. Snowden had to balance his loyalty to his fellow citizens with that of an unlawful government. Honestly? I likely would have made a similar choice. He is a national hero, not a traitor, for revealing the criminal and intolerable behavior of that agency and worthy of praise and respect.

quote:
Just because I don't agree with what my company does


The NSA is not a company. It is a government agency and in a COMPLETELY different class of entity than that of a company/corporation/business. That agency is subject to a different set of ethical, moral and legal standards than a company.

quote:
does that give me the right to steal all of their corporate secrets and distribute it to the world?


You're right, it doesn't. But that is not what happened in this situation. Snowden discovered that activities being conducted by a GOVERNMENT in a completely unlawful fashion. The NSA is deliberately BREAKING the law! It was his duty, responsibility and even obligation to reveal such to the public.

quote:
He broke the law and he should have to pay the consequences for doing that.


Perhaps he did, but he broke standing law that is itself unlawful in an effort reveal criminal activities of a government that has been granted authorities that are directly unlawful. The NSA stands at this time as little more than a legalized criminal organization not to dissimilar from the Italian, Russian or Mexican mafia's. They are criminals and little else.

quote:
You don't get a free pass to break the rules you signed when you were hired just because you feel it's the "right thing to do".


Snowden broke a few "rules" to reveal criminal acts conducted by a GOVERNMENT. His actions were correct and brings even more evidence to a growing body of evidence that the United States government is being turned, one step at a time, into tyrannous fascist entity not unlike the Nazi's of the 20th century. Obama is little more than a wanna-be Hitler. HE and everyone who follows him are the traitor's. End of story, full stop.


RE: I would like to know...
By inperfectdarkness on 10/16/2013 2:43:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not going to call it for Snowden one way or the other. What I will say is that Snowden is LESS of a traitor than Manning is.


RE: I would like to know...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2013 10:32:51 AM , Rating: 2
Manning just made us look bad.

Snowden released information of far more damaging importance. His initial leak wasn't the problem. It was everything that came after that.


RE: I would like to know...
By degobah77 on 10/16/2013 10:42:50 AM , Rating: 2
I would say he went about it wrong, but the NSA is more wrong, more guilty than Snowden should ever be. In this case, I really hope 2 wrongs makes a right. For all of us.


RE: I would like to know...
By Moishe on 10/16/2013 2:53:09 PM , Rating: 2
IMO He broke a law, but he is not a traitor. If it's not already, it should be illegal to make a law against whistleblowing about illegal/criminal activities, which is where the NSA stands.

They make their own rules and the law (the constitution) does not apply to them. The govt says it's illegal to tell on them when they break the law.

That's a bunch of BS, and Snowden has at least given the rest of us some idea of what kind of wolves are in our hen house.


This is getting stupid
By Monkey's Uncle on 10/15/2013 3:51:09 PM , Rating: 1
The United States of America, the Land of the free, the bastion of freedom and tolerance, is the biggest police state in the world.




RE: This is getting stupid
By ritualm on 10/15/2013 3:52:28 PM , Rating: 5
The NSA: the only government agency that actually listens.


RE: This is getting stupid
By Monkey's Uncle on 10/15/2013 4:13:23 PM , Rating: 2
ROFLMAO good one!


RE: This is getting stupid
By ERROR666 on 10/15/2013 4:02:20 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't say this out loud.


RE: This is getting stupid
By retrospooty on 10/15/2013 4:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... Exactly. Monkeys Uncle's IP now logged and stored for use in case of any future infractions.

Too much more of this and we need to start crossing the border into Mexico so we can live free.


RE: This is getting stupid
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:13:43 PM , Rating: 2
Come to Canada. We might not have as much sun as mexico, but our streets are safer.


RE: This is getting stupid
By Reclaimer77 on 10/15/2013 7:36:54 PM , Rating: 2
And you can drink the water! Mmmmm natural glacier water, eh.


RE: This is getting stupid
By Monkey's Uncle on 10/15/2013 7:49:22 PM , Rating: 2
And all the Beaver you can eat ;)

(oops, did I say that out loud?)


RE: This is getting stupid
By troysavary on 10/16/2013 2:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
You'd probably like it up here. We are actually a lot farther right than the USA now. Funny how things change.


NSA
By Richard875yh5 on 10/16/2013 8:27:19 AM , Rating: 3
If it's going to help them find terrorists, I don't give a hoot if they look at my emails. I have nothing to hide. Only the criminals should worry about this.




RE: NSA
By Moishe on 10/16/2013 2:55:11 PM , Rating: 1
Bow down before your kings, sheep.


RE: NSA
By ritualm on 10/16/2013 4:44:50 PM , Rating: 1
Why do you think it's acceptable for the government to watch us everyday to "protect" us? And exactly whose terrorists and dangerous persons are they trying to "protect" us from?

You are delusional.


Go Team!
By bitmover461 on 10/16/2013 9:45:16 AM , Rating: 2
The 2 party system has ingrained the majority of Americans to view politics as nothing more than a sporting event. Cheer your side to victory and bask in the other side getting kicked into the dirt. That mindlessness has gotten us into this mess; an essentially unconstitutional federal government.




RE: Go Team!
By Moishe on 10/16/2013 2:56:17 PM , Rating: 3
It's a one party system with two labels. They're the same corrupt people in the same corrupt city.

Voting D or R is voting for your own doom.


By BZDTemp on 10/16/2013 11:25:17 AM , Rating: 1
...which makes the politicians assholes. And the politicians are allowed to be assholes by the US public which.. well you see where this is going.

It is time to get a proper working democracy established in the US and if not it can can only get worse from here :-(




By Moishe on 10/16/2013 2:58:09 PM , Rating: 2
Because the people don't hold the politician's feet to the fire... because the politicians buy them free stuff.


Fixed This Line For Ya Mick!
By tng on 10/15/2013 5:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The NSA and criminals who engage in online theft bear certain similarities


Here is how it should read
quote:
The NSA and other criminals who engage in online theft bear certain similarities




ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: ROFL
By Dorkyman on 10/15/2013 4:15:46 PM , Rating: 1
Okay, Einstein, then YOU explain.

I think I'm a pretty smart guy, and the Snowden revelations scare the crap out of me.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 4:54:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think I'm a pretty smart guy, and the Snowden revelations scare the crap out of me.

If you weren't already well aware that every major government around the world is snooping on electronic communications worldwide, then you aren't paying attention, or aren't as smart as you think you are. I'm not trying to be insulting, but honestly this isn't news to anyone that has been watching just how easy it is to obtain data over the public internet. I would be willing to bet your credit card company has even more detailed records on you than say the government.

Privacy on the internet is an ILLUSION, it never existed. Do not confuse "I'm at home and therefore protected" with "I'm on a worldwide open network, but I'm at home, so I should be protected".

In all honesty, the people that are most outraged are the same people who post every minute detail (with GPS data) on their every waking minute to Facebook. You put the information out there, don't cry later when it's used by people you didn't intend it for.

I honestly blame the mid 90's AOL and Web2.0 crowd for much of this. The early internet users were well aware that not using real names or other identifying information protected them to some extent. Over time new users to the internet of the less technically savvy nature were blissfully unaware of all of this. Entire companies (Facebook, MySpace, etc..) were built around the idea of sharing real life details with complete strangers in an effort to "be more social". Welcome to the down side of that particular train of thinking. Everything you've ever written/posted/pictured is available to anyone and everyone that knows where to get it. I would honestly find it shameful if governments across the world had intelligence agencies that weren't exploiting all of the freely available information people place on the internet. I'd bet it's even more effective than having people follow you around all day.


RE: ROFL
By ebakke on 10/15/2013 5:16:31 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If you weren't already well aware that every major government around the world is snooping on electronic communications worldwide, then you aren't paying attention, or aren't as smart as you think you are.
Are you trying to claim that a state spying on another state is the same as a state spying on its own subj...er, citizens? Surely you see the difference in what you're claiming is common knowledge, and what Jason's article is discussing.

You had a fairly long post, but none of it explained why you think the NSA's actions are defensible. Or more accurately, why you think "the amount of embellishment and extremist writing in this article is absolutely disgusting" or why you think Jason's "sources don't support half the accusations" he makes.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: ROFL
By ebakke on 10/15/2013 5:58:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I love watching people try to use geographical barriers in a discussion concerning the internet, which by its very nature does not adhere to them.
I'm not using geographical barriers. I'm using legal ones. The NSA is barred from spying on US citizens. For any data collection mechanism, if it can't differentiate between the citizens and non-citizens, then it doesn't get to use that mechanism. It's really that simple.
quote:
All I see is that US data was being collected inadvertently during the procurement of foreign data.
Or, using your stated logic, you could equally say they collected foreign data inadvertently during procurement of domestic data. Because, after all, the internet has no geographical barriers. So I don't think it's fair to apply either adjective to the type of data they were collecting. The harvested just data, indiscriminately.
quote:
Is it bad? Sure. Is it surprising? Not at all.
Why must it be surprising? Is it being bad not enough for you? It certainly is for me.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/15/2013 6:09:36 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
If things were really as bad as people think, Congress and the Supreme Court would be on a witch hunt right now to find out who is abusing constitution and bring them to justice.


ahahaahah!!!!!!!!!

*wipes tears* okay, I'm sorry - sorry. What I meant to say was *grabs megaphone*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAHHHAH AHAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 7:50:42 PM , Rating: 1
You've made my point for me. You like so many others are so dead set on everything being done illegally, that you can't and won't bother to look beyond your own biases. I'm sure you were screaming to high hell over Gitmo and Waterboarding too. It really doesn't matter what it is, the government is bad, always, no matter what. Feel free to leave the US and move to Russia, according to Snowden it's worlds better than the big bad USA.


RE: ROFL
By ritualm on 10/16/2013 12:24:49 AM , Rating: 3
Bias? Yours is in full, fervent, unquestioned support of what your government is doing against its own citizens and everyone else outside your country. Living in North Korea isn't so bad anymore, considering just how awful USA has become: the Land of the Free isn't a police state right now, but it's damned close to one.

Whatever al-Qaeda's motives were on September 11, 2001, it did accomplish its main objective: turn USA from a free state into a police state. The best part is they know just how godawful gullible and weak-willed USA really is when it comes to defending against imaginary danger. Plant a few false flags, then watch you go into extreme panic mode, in an attempt to defend against a mortal danger that never existed in the first place - worthy of ROFL.


RE: ROFL
By tamalero on 10/16/2013 12:56:00 AM , Rating: 2
Bias..?
Are you even reading what you're writing?
sorry man, but you're sounding like a epic hypocrite right now.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/16/2013 12:59:27 AM , Rating: 2
You're a trolling child. I don't even know how you got your "DT blog" credentials, but your poor attitude here and blatant lack of maturity has certainly done nothing to enhance Daily Tech's image or those of your peers.

I'm not even going to legitimize your straw man red herring put-words-in others mouths tactics by bothering to set you straight. Nobody else can get through to you either.

I sincerely hope you're a Government employee. At least then I could understand your fervent nonsense you spew at any challenge to the status quo, even intellectual ones in an online debate.

Because the only alternative is that you really are this ignorant and childish.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/16/2013 4:41:11 AM , Rating: 2
Get over yourself. I, like many other Americans that have served this country past and present choose not to believe it is pure evil and out to get me all the time. You're nothing but a conspiracy lunatic, your post about the IRS proves that beyond doubt. There's no point debating law and merit with someone like you, you can't be reasoned with.


RE: ROFL
By tamalero on 10/16/2013 11:36:13 AM , Rating: 2
pot meet kettle again.

You're also sporting the "I AM RIGHT, THEREFORE EVERYONE IS WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO" attitude while pulling almost every fallacy mentioned in the internet.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/16/2013 1:24:59 PM , Rating: 2
You really enjoy creating false arguments that nobody ever made, so you can rail against them, don't you?

I never said NSA data was used in the IRS intimidation scandal. But a scandal DID take place. Just because it's been swept under the rug and had excuses made for it that no rational person would believe, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

So we have clear cases where abuse of Government power has taken place. More specifically, Government abusing power aimed DIRECTLY at citizens of this country. It's happened before, it happened now, and it will happen again.

Yet here you are saying anyone with any scruples about it, is some nut job conspiracy theory looney-toon. That if anything really illegal took place, Congress or a court would rush it and make it all better. And you accuse others of being a lunatic!?

Not to mention your absurdly childish and ignorant reasoning. For example claiming that because the Constitution doesn't specifically mention an "internet", it's principles and protections just don't apply to it, thus the Government can do whatever it wants!

This not only demonstrates you have absolutely zero understanding of the Constitution, but that you're a moron too. I hate resorting to insults, believe it or not, but you've left me just no choice.

You're also a pretty bad troll, too.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/16/2013 3:32:28 PM , Rating: 2
The troll here is you, but hey I'll bite. The supreme court is the body of government that makes official determination on if things are or are not legal according to the constitution and other laws on the books. The supreme court has made ZERO ruling that what is taking place is in fact illegal in regards to the NSA's programs. For you to stand here and rant and rave about the legality of if is asinine. You are declaring it to be illegal based on your beliefs, not on the laws as written. I find it disrespectful as hell for you to stand here and condemn anyone and everyone who has or does serve this country because you believe the government is out to get you. At the very least you've made it abundantly clear that you never served this country at any point in time and never will. I can thank god for small favors that I don't have you making decisions that affect this country.


RE: ROFL
By ebakke on 10/16/2013 4:56:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The supreme court has made ZERO ruling that what is taking place is in fact illegal in regards to the NSA's programs.
In order to challenge the government, I must have standing. In order to have standing, I must provide evidence that I've been harmed. In order to do that, I must have access to the information collected on me. In order to do that, that information must be declassified. Not going to happen. A lack of a decision declaring the NSAs actions illegal is *not* the same as a decision declaring their actions legal.

quote:
find it disrespectful as hell for you to stand here and condemn anyone and everyone who has or does serve this country
Oh c'mon. Get off your high horse. You're a mercenary. That's fine if that's the way you choose to live your life, but you're not some saint for doing so.


RE: ROFL
By ritualm on 10/16/2013 4:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
Whose laws , Master Kenobi? Answer those questions you must - because you still haven't done so.

The elite creates one set of laws to impose on everyone else, while also creating a second set of laws to protect themselves from everyone else. The playing field is already uneven to start. How is any of this fair?

Oh right, because you are an active-duty sergeant in the armed forces, and that gives you the ability to check your values and beliefs at the door.

The troll here is you. You are asinine and disrespectful as hell. You've never served this country at any point in time and never will, despite your ill-gotten credentials in the armed forces. You are a retarded government shill to think we are all idiots to even attempt to save what little remains of the very Constitution of the United States of America, which ironically you have sworn on DAY ONE of your enlistment to the armed forces, to defend.

Worthless, pathetic troll of the highest order.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/16/2013 5:42:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I find it disrespectful as hell for you to stand here and condemn anyone and everyone who has or does serve this country


Again, you need to put words in peoples mouths to argue against.

Where did I condemn anyone who serves this country? Where are you getting this nonsense!?

quote:
For you to stand here and rant and rave about the legality of if is asinine.


Dude the only one ranting and raving here is you. Have you read your posts? They're absolutely mental!

quote:
I can thank god for small favors that I don't have you making decisions that affect this country.


What hyperbole...


RE: ROFL
By Acupuncture on 10/15/2013 5:22:18 PM , Rating: 1
It's not just internet dipshit, the NSA scoops up phone records, texts, and Geolocation data that they absolutely shouldn't be aloud to snoop in on unless they have a warrant.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 5:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
And if your carrier wasn't moving that data over publicly accessible infrastructure then they couldn't get it. You are aware that most of your data is sent across the public internet from your phone at one point or another, right? It's not like having to tap a physical line as was the case in the 80's and 90's. Everything is just data chunks fired through cellular towers and into the major Telco backbones, which is where I presume the data is being harvested.


RE: ROFL
By Acupuncture on 10/15/2013 5:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
Why are you so goddamn apologetic for the Government's blatant lack of protecting our privacy rights? Your absurd "it's a public forum, so therefore you have zero privacy rights" logic is insane. Technology has changed, so just because mobile phone data is transmitted in a different way than in the past absolutely does not grant the government the ability to snoop in simply because they want to. I've pinned you down to either a government employee, or a corporate drone that had to suck off his boss to get to to a position of power. How' my aim?


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 7:47:37 PM , Rating: 2
Your aim is hitting Texas when you were aiming for Alaska. Try again.


RE: ROFL
By Acupuncture on 10/15/2013 11:32:03 PM , Rating: 2
That made absolutely no sense. Well done.


RE: ROFL
By M'n'M on 10/15/2013 7:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And if your carrier wasn't moving that data over publicly accessible infrastructure then they couldn't get it.


So would it be OK for the NSA to secretly stop all FedEX & UPS trucks via secret order, open up and photograph all the letters, re-close the packages and send the trucks on their way because the trucks ran on public roads ?

If you were suing the US for 1 billion $$s, you'd be OK w/the NSA grabbing the e-mail btw you and your lawyer ?


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 8:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they already do?


RE: ROFL
By M'n'M on 10/16/2013 6:54:00 PM , Rating: 2
Too in-efficient. But nice diversion instead of answering the hypotheticals.

Tacit approval ?


RE: ROFL
By tng on 10/15/2013 5:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd bet it's even more effective than having people follow you around all day.
Far more effective I would say.

People will make comments on FB pages and comment boards (like this one) that they would never reveal in real life. You get to see more about how the person thinks though these interactions than just watching them may ever tell you.


RE: ROFL
By troysavary on 10/15/2013 7:17:30 PM , Rating: 3
The difference is in the past, the US government mainly spied to ferret out foreign threats. The Obama administration is spying to find Americans who oppose him. If you can't see why that is more scary, I don't know what to say to you. To a neutral outside observer, it seems obvious that Obama has dictator aspirations.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/15/2013 7:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you! Excellent post.

This debate isn't in a bubble people. Obama has already used one of his many databases to harass and intimidate political opponents through the IRS!


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/15/2013 7:54:12 PM , Rating: 1
The IRS? Really?

I will here and now state that I hate Obama's guts and I did not vote for him at any point in time. But even I can't believe for one second that Obama is using the NSA to feed data to the IRS, to intimidate his political opponents. That is some absolutely paranoid and delusional shit right there buddy. You might need to seek some professional help.


RE: ROFL
By troysavary on 10/16/2013 7:11:06 AM , Rating: 1
Obama is doing far more than that. Explain why he is trying so hard to disarm the American populace while at the same time has ordered over a billion hollow point rounds for agencies like the DHS. Explain why IRS agents are getting weapons training. Explain why the government is currently buying up as many emergency ration kits as they can get their hands on. Why are they currently undertaking huge anti-rioting training?

This financial crisis is being engineered. The puppetmasters want the US economy to collapse so the rioting that ensues will allow them to declare martial law for your "safety". A strong, independent USA would be in the way of their one world government plans so a long process of dumbing down US kids through indoctrination in public schools was started, along with a slow creep towards fascism in the government. The idea was to get the populace so ignorant constitutionally and so distracted by meaningless celebrities that they didn't know, nor care, what was going on. Obama is the culmination of decades of preparation for the dismantling of the US republic and the shit will hit the fan real soon.


RE: ROFL
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/16/2013 3:37:58 PM , Rating: 2
I can certainly agree that the DHS buying up lots of ammunition is a bit odd and deserves an explanation, but to connect the dots the way you just did is pretty far fetched.

Obama has only a few years left in the white house, then it's up to the next guy. I'll give you credit for finding a way to connect all of those dots, but I can't agree with your assessment. Having served in the military for a number of years, I don't believe for a second that the US government is adept enough to pull off something that long term and coordinated.


RE: ROFL
By ritualm on 10/16/2013 5:05:15 PM , Rating: 2
The next guy will merely continue what Obama left off.

I don't like troysavary's assessment, either, because it smacks of pessimist thinking. Unfortunately, what he said is every bit as accurate. Why 1.6 billion hollow point rounds when the most the DoHS goes through is maybe 5-6 million? We're headed in a direct collision course against the rich, where the playing field is excessively stacked against us - and the worst part is you have zero issues with any of that.

Blind, obedient sheep - you are full of it. All of your opinions are rendered null and void because you don't think any of these can ever happen. Save your petty insults and circular logic, Master Kenobi, because all the critical pieces of the tinder box are falling into place - all it takes is someone to light the match.


RE: ROFL
By troysavary on 10/16/2013 2:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
You know, other than your rush to defend all things Google, I agree with a lot of what you believe. I think you'd be fun to have a few drinks with and talk about anything not related to phones. :P


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/16/2013 5:45:28 PM , Rating: 2
LOL I was actually thinking the same thing!

Hey what do you mean my rush to defend Google? You motherfu!!! just kidding :)


RE: ROFL
By Moishe on 10/16/2013 3:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yup. Spying on and hassling (IRS audit, etc) political opponents puts the Obama on the same standing as many other countries that we claim have fixed elections and high levels of corruption in govt.

Congratz, Americans, we live in our own little tin-horn dictatorship now under king Obama.


RE: ROFL
By Reclaimer77 on 10/16/2013 6:07:08 PM , Rating: 2
Obama is turning America into a Banana Republic at a rapid pace...


RE: ROFL
By Moishe on 10/17/2013 8:11:18 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah.... and while he is a crook, what gets me the most is that the people we elect to maintain the legal balance of power between the branches have completely failed to nail him for his illegal acts.

Wolves guarding the hen house.


RE: ROFL
By tamalero on 10/21/2013 11:25:10 PM , Rating: 2
Imho.. the problem is, all gov sides have wolves.. and they're all protecting their own benefits or owners...
sort of "scratch my back and ill scratch yours".
this happens a lot in Mexico.
Everyone(high elected individuals) steals because the other ones do as well...


"So if you want to save the planet, feel free to drive your Hummer. Just avoid the drive thru line at McDonalds." -- Michael Asher














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