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North Korea attempted to launch a ballistic missile, from a site seen here, this morning. The launch failed, raining debris on the Sea of Japan. North Korea insists the launch was legal, but President Obama condemned the launch, saying it is in violation of international laws.  (Source: Digital Globe/ISIS)

North Korea claimed the missile's payload reached orbit, but it was caught in a lie by U.S. intelligence. The satellite, which was to broadcast anthems praising North Korea's dictator, crashed to Earth when second stage separation failed.  (Source: QuiNews)
North Korea claims satellite reached orbit, U.S. intelligence states otherwise

North Korea recently announced that it was pursuing a "peaceful" space launch, which it claims was within its rights under international law.  However, officials in the U.S. and South Korea believed that North Korea had far more sinister intentions -- testing its Taepodong-2 launch vehicle, which could deploy nuclear or traditional payloads to the U.S. or Japan

North Korea tried its first Taepodong-2 test in July 2006, only to meet with failure.  Months later, it rocked the world of foreign diplomacy when it carried out a nuclear test.  Talks between the U.S., South Korea, Japan, Russia, and China over North Korea's nuclear disarmament are currently stalled.

Eager to try its hand at another Taepodong-2 test, North Korea launched one over the weekend, only to fail once again according to the BBC.  North Korea's state run media at first reported that the satellite payload, named "Kwangmyongsong-2", had successfully reached orbit and was transmitting data, including the "Song of General Kim Il-sung" and "Song of General Kim Jong-il" -- national anthems praising North Korea's former leader, and his son, the current leader of North Korea.

However, U.S. intelligence quickly contradicted these reports, announcing that the missile failed during the second stage of separation on the three-stage rocket, occurring at approximately 0230 GMT.  North Korea's failed attempt scattered debris on the Sea of Japan and the Pacific.  Describes U.S. intelligence, "Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan/East Sea. The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean.  No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan."

U.S. officials "assessed the space launch vehicle as not a threat to North America or Hawaii and took no action in response to this launch," according to a statement.  The U.S. and Japan have a joint functional missile shield, which could have been deployed, had the launch been considered a threat.  The U.S., EU, Japan and South Korea all condemned the failed launch attempt.

Speaking to a crowd in the Czech capital, Prague, President Barack Obama, stated, "North Korea broke the rules once more by testing a rocket that could be used for a long-range missile.  This provocation underscores the need for action - not just this afternoon at the UN Security Council, but in our determination to prevent the spread of these weapons."

In particular, he says the launch clearly violates Security Council resolution 1718 adopted in October 2006, which bans North Korea from carrying out ballistic missile activity.  China and Russia, both former allies of North Korea, urged the U.S. and others to be conservative in their response to the violation.



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Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By callmeroy on 4/6/2009 11:57:18 AM , Rating: 3
First remember both countries hate each other, so who's intelligence you going to believe -- the US because you live in the US? (so do I).

The fact is clear on one thing though, they are making progress -- this rocket whether it reached orbit or not still flew twice as far as any other rocket they ever built and tested. Its still progress.




RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By SunAngel on 4/6/09, Rating: -1
By Mojo the Monkey on 4/6/2009 12:10:53 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree. It would be just as likely that the operation to go collect and survey the rocket debris would not be public information.


By KingofL337 on 4/6/2009 12:30:05 PM , Rating: 3
If you read the CNN article, they mention that Japan has sent some ships to collect what is left of the payload.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By Murloc on 4/6/2009 12:36:17 PM , Rating: 3
maybe it was bullshit that they were trying to launch a satellite in orbit, maybe it was just a test.
And they can hit japan without any problem now.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By KGBird on 4/6/2009 2:17:16 PM , Rating: 2
Actually they've had to capability to hit Japan for quite a while. Their goal is to get an ICBM. The TS2 is a step in that direction.

But I agree, this was a test that supports their missile program. After all, the only difference between a space launch and an ICBM is where you point it and how/when you release the payload.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By Basilisk on 4/6/2009 7:05:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
... the only difference between a space launch and an ICBM is where you point it and how/when you release the payload

If you believe that comment, you're discarding accuracy as a weapon value: if you can't target precisely, you're just firing your bullet in an arbitrary manner and betting your "terrorist threat capability" will scare the big kids into running away. You're playing this game against countries that can place each incoming ICBM within a 100 meters, and each nuclear cruise missile's attack within a couple of meters. That's a wildly asymmetric risk...


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By stromgald30 on 4/6/2009 7:33:45 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're underestimating the accuracy required to reach orbit. Firing a rocket straight up to get into orbit wastes a ton of energy, which is why launch vehicles turn/roll-over at some point in the launch.

Admittedly, none of us knows whether N. Korea's rocket took this into account or just tried to brute force it's way up. But if they can launch something into orbit, they can hit a medium to large city.

Of course, what you're saying about weapon accuracy in war is true, and if N. Korea's leaders were rational they wouldn't dare fire at Japan or S. Korea. But assuming that Kim Jong-Il is rational may be a stretch.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By cheetah2k on 4/6/2009 9:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the real truth was as follows:

"North Korea claimed the missile's payload reached orbit, but it was caught in a lie by U.S. intelligence. The satellite, which was thought to contain anthems praising North Korea's dictator, was indeed sabotaged, and soon after launch it was discovered that it contained the anthem to "Team America" and chants of "Team America, Fcuk Yeah!" before North Korea detonated it over the Pacific Ocean"...


By Samus on 4/7/2009 4:37:08 AM , Rating: 1
The only thing scary is they are probably going to blow up the wrong fucking country when they do a real launch in the future.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By MozeeToby on 4/6/2009 12:23:58 PM , Rating: 4
Sorry, but I'm going to have to believe the US (and Japanese) intelligence services on this one.

First, the US and Japanese have every reason to report success if the launch was successful, all the better to get funding for missile defense programs.

Second, North Korea couldn't even get a gun-type nuclear weapon to work properly; which, assuming you have enriched uranium, is much easier than an orbital rocket. North Korea's big projects constantly feel rushed and incomplete. I suspect that the scientists and engineers are always being pushed to finish projects faster and cheaper than is possible.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By Suntan on 4/6/2009 1:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
First, the US and Japanese have every reason to report success if the launch was successful, all the better to get funding for missile defense programs.


Agreed, why would they keep it a secret when the information would be useful in gaining public support for the actions they would want to take against it?

-Suntan


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By Solandri on 4/6/2009 9:51:29 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention I haven't seen any other country with the surveillance technology (Russia, China, ESA, maybe Canada and India) claim that it made it into orbit. There's also a pretty active amateur satellite tracking community. If it did make it into orbit, NK would just need to reveal the satellite's orbital elements and the community could verify it pretty quickly with pictures. I've had a satellite go through my field of view while observing through a telescope, and it's pretty obvious when it happens.


By tmouse on 4/7/2009 7:29:14 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, especially if it's supposed to be broadcasting those rocking tunes "Song of General Kim Il-sung" and "Song of General Kim Jong-il".


By Lastfreethinker on 4/6/2009 2:29:04 PM , Rating: 4
Well I would believe the US and Japan for the simple matter that they actually report their failures. The reason it looked like the Russian were winning the space race was because they never reported a failed attempt they only reported successes AFTER they had been completed. They US said 'Hey watch this launch as it happens' the Russians said 'Here is a video of what we did.'

So am I going to trust a Democracy over a Dictatorship? You bet your ass, every fracking time.


RE: Still Progress Though Which Is Scary...
By Reclaimer77 on 4/6/09, Rating: 0
By tmouse on 4/7/2009 7:33:12 AM , Rating: 2
Just like in school they have now added another spot on his permanent record. ; )


Resolution 1718
By Goty on 4/6/2009 1:06:13 PM , Rating: 5
It doesn't matter one iota that North Korea violated any UN resolution because the organization is a complete failure. What's the point of passing these resolutions if you take no action when someone violates it?

The lack of action on behalf of the UN serves to do nothing but make violators more bold in their defiance.




RE: Resolution 1718
By EricMartello on 4/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Resolution 1718
By MrBungle123 on 4/6/2009 1:42:05 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
We should continue weapon development with the intent of blowing beings that are not of this Earth!


porn?


RE: Resolution 1718
By tmouse on 4/7/2009 7:40:56 AM , Rating: 2
Why just for beings not of this Earth ?

It's always good to take a few moments to look for these SNAFUs before posting. In two days we had people peeing in your home and now weapons to blow beings who are not of this earth....

On second thought keep it up it breaks up the day ; )


RE: Resolution 1718
By tmouse on 4/7/2009 8:47:38 AM , Rating: 2
Not to get too far OT but you may be on to something here. The development of an "O" bomb could revolutionize modern warfare. Imagine detonating one of these over a battlefield of enemy combatants... after 5-10 minutes of continual reactions all of them would either want to take a nap or get a sandwich. Your would even eliminate the need to worry about collateral damage since civilians might not even mind being caught in the "blast". Sounds like a potential D.O.D. grant to me.


RE: Resolution 1718
By Slappi on 4/7/2009 7:44:56 AM , Rating: 3
Alien porn?

Hmmmm.....

You might have something here.


RE: Resolution 1718
By DNAgent on 4/7/2009 8:16:08 AM , Rating: 2
MMMMmmmmm.....tentacles.....


RE: Resolution 1718
By Ammohunt on 4/6/2009 1:34:37 PM , Rating: 1
I think you apply too much significance to the UN. I would guess there are more sympathies on the security council toward NK than to any western interests. The UN has outlived its usefulness its time for a organization comprised only of free democracies.


RE: Resolution 1718
By Suntan on 4/6/2009 2:07:49 PM , Rating: 1
Distancing ourselves from countries that think differently than us was tried already. Think – after WWII up until the late 80s…

No long term good will come from marginalizing a group of people on the world stage.

There needs to be a better vehicle for getting the world’s main players to work together. Not just a mindset along the lines of “Russia keeps thinking differently than us so we should boot them out of our club or start a new one.”

There needs to be a method to make all countries give a damn about things. From the self centered mindset of the likes of America and Japan in this instance, to the backwards mindset of Russia, to the totally disinterested mindset of “neutral” countries like Ireland.

It’s sad that in this era of “global this” and “uniform standards” that, nobody world wide really gives a crap about the disservice being portrayed on the NK People by a relatively small group of leaders.

All of the above aside, you can’t blame North Korea for making hay while the sun is shining. (Read: ignoring national defense because he is busy getting his multitude of new entitlement programs up and running.)

-Suntan


RE: Resolution 1718
By Goty on 4/6/2009 2:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
How are Japan's and the United States' responses at all self-centered when they're concerned about a country of questionable morals obtaining the means to slaughter millions of people?

Also, there is no disservice being done to the people of North Korea, only to its leaders and government. How you can even attempt to marginalize the actions of North Korea over the past few years is completely beyond me.


RE: Resolution 1718
By Suntan on 4/6/2009 3:48:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
How are Japan's and the United States' responses at all self-centered when they're concerned about a country of questionable morals obtaining the means to slaughter millions of people?


Because NK developing the capability to land nuclear weapons on American, Japanese or South Korean soil will directly impact America and Japan (and South Korea but they were not mentioned in the previous post) more so than the rest of the world. Therefore, we have more of a vested interest in stopping that from happening than most other countries.

The reality is that America and Japan would barely even pay lip service to NK if intelligence showed that NK had no real interest of ever doing anything outside of its own borders and only wanted to continue repressing its own people. Sorry, but that’s reality.

Just because America and Japan are motivated because it personally benefits them, it doesn’t mean it is the wrong course of action.

And let’s not forget, NK already has the means to slaughter millions of people… ..there own.

quote:
Also, there is no disservice being done to the people of North Korea, only to its leaders and government.


The relatively small group of leaders I was talking about *was* the NK government. The “disservice” is being done to the NK people in that they are being made to live a repressed lifestyle more akin to centuries past. I was not referring to the US or Japanese government there.

quote:
How you can even attempt to marginalize the actions of North Korea over the past few years is completely beyond me.


I was not marginalizing anything. You miss-read my post.

I would add though that to insinuate that their actions “over the past few years” is in any way more deplorable than their actions have been for many, many years is to once again take the purely selfish stance that only the things that directly effect places like the US or Japan are the activities that are considered “deplorable.”

-Suntan


RE: Resolution 1718
By Nfarce on 4/6/2009 3:39:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It doesn't matter one iota that North Korea violated any UN resolution because the organization is a complete failure.


Touché. Just look at the success stories of their so-called "Human Rights" Council:

"The Council's most recent session saw the body voting to end its mandate to investigate the Democratic Republic of the Congo, even as that nation lurches into ethnic bloodshed. A Pakistani resolution against "defamation of religions" passed with ease despite being universally decried by human rights groups as a thinly veiled effort to curtail freedom of expression and suppress minority sects...According to Human Rights Watch, at least 26 other countries -- including China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Zimbabwe -- have been ignored by the Council."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123897440836691053...


Their rocket failed?
By Proteusza on 4/6/2009 12:14:22 PM , Rating: 1
They have cures for that nowadays - has Kim Jong-Il heard of viagra?




RE: Their rocket failed?
By acase on 4/6/2009 12:28:41 PM , Rating: 5
Probably, but what good would it do when you are so ronery?


RE: Their rocket failed?
By DarkElfa on 4/6/2009 12:46:26 PM , Rating: 5
You know, we joke, but its really sad that he spends so much of his country's GDP to make himself look so great while his people starve to death. I hope that with the next missile they launch that the rest of the country hops on board and rides it out of that ego ridden hell hole.

...of course given they're missile success rate that may not be such a great idea.


RE: Their rocket failed?
By MrBungle123 on 4/6/2009 1:36:31 PM , Rating: 2
We should launch a satellite to sit in geo-stationary orbit over N. Korea and broadcast Enzyte commercials.


RE: Their rocket failed?
By ice456789 on 4/6/2009 2:36:11 PM , Rating: 2
That would start a war for sure.


RE: Their rocket failed?
By acase on 4/6/2009 4:54:02 PM , Rating: 3
Meet Bomb. Bomb wasn't very happy with his small payload. Bomb got Enzyte, and now Bomb has a much bigger payload that can go all the way-- oh no! Premature splash down!


In other news...
By Repo503 on 4/6/2009 11:48:52 AM , Rating: 3
I launched my own type-o-dong this weekend.




RE: In other news...
By Raidin on 4/6/2009 12:06:58 PM , Rating: 5
According to your gf, your launch failed to reach orbit.


RE: In other news...
By Mojo the Monkey on 4/6/2009 12:11:34 PM , Rating: 1
Brilliant! haha.


RE: In other news...
By Tsuwamono on 4/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: In other news...
By yomamafor1 on 4/6/2009 1:26:23 PM , Rating: 1
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!!


RE: In other news...
By tastyratz on 4/6/2009 1:34:34 PM , Rating: 5
Yea it appears he "prematurely deployed his payload"


RE: In other news...
By 16nm on 4/6/2009 12:49:04 PM , Rating: 2
Was Ms. Fagina there, too?


RE: In other news...
By SpaceJumper on 4/6/2009 2:13:50 PM , Rating: 1
My payload hits the ceiling.:-0


By GodisanAtheist on 4/6/2009 2:30:53 PM , Rating: 1
... rather than Iraq. What a waste.

Kim-boy is pure 1000% batshit crazy, and is so far out of Sadam Hussein's league in terms of bark/bite in relative and absolute terms and oppression of the local population that dropping a few missiles on his palace would quite prudent... and this coming from someone who was staunchly against the Iraq war from the start.




By ChronoReverse on 4/6/2009 2:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
Iraq didn't have 10000 artillery guns pointed at a city like Seoul.


By geddarkstorm on 4/6/2009 3:53:02 PM , Rating: 2
Or a country as big as China up north to bail them out (likely they would still do so even now). See the Korean War.


By Suntan on 4/6/2009 3:55:15 PM , Rating: 2
Nor was Iraq nestled right up in the armpit of a country like China.

Show of hands, how many people think China would have reacted differently than it did when Iraq was invaded if it had been NK that was invaded??..

-Suntan


By Proxes on 4/6/2009 4:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
I'm ignorant on this but aren't we (US) technically still at war with North Korea?


By Nfarce on 4/6/2009 4:43:25 PM , Rating: 2
Technically we (and South Korea) are at a cease fire with the DPRK. War could start back up at any time, which is why on both sides, border soldiers face each other 7x24.

I just find the label D emocratic P eople's R epublic of K orea so offensive...


By Pneumothorax on 4/6/2009 5:27:50 PM , Rating: 3
Whenever you have "Democratic" in the name of a country it usually means Democracy is the furthest from the truth for that country's government.

Also whenever you have the "People's Blah Blah, the country is almost never for the benefit of the "People"


By Solandri on 4/6/2009 9:39:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm ignorant on this but aren't we (US) technically still at war with North Korea?

Technically yes. The war ended with a cease fire, not a peace treaty. But technically it wasn't a war, it was a U.N. police action (U.S.S.R. were boycotting the Security Council and China's seat was held by Taiwan when it passed the resolution for military action in response to N. Korea's invasion). The U.S. provided the bulk of the troops, but about two dozen countries provided military and support personnel.

Beyond semantics, the war is really one of the big sticking points with any contemporary dealings with North Korea. NK doesn't recognize South Korea as a legitimate country. It views it as a puppet state of the U.S. So it is always maneuvering to try to get one-on-one negotiations with the U.S., excluding SK. The U.S. always insists on the involvement of all major parties involved in the war: NK and SK, the U.S., Japan, China, and Russia.


Japan??
By adiposity on 4/6/2009 11:45:03 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
However, U.S. intelligence quickly contradicted these reports, announcing that the missile failed during the second stage of separation on the three-stage rocket, occurring at approximately 0230 GMT. North Korea's failed attempt scattered debris on Japan and the Pacific. Describes U.S. intelligence, "Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan/East Sea. The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean. No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan ."


So did debris fall on Japan or not?




RE: Japan??
By JasonMick (blog) on 4/6/2009 11:49:07 AM , Rating: 1
Debris fell on the Sea of Japan, not mainland Japan. No further details are available at this time, unfortunately. I'll let you know if I hear more.


RE: Japan??
By murphyslabrat on 4/6/2009 11:53:48 AM , Rating: 5
It's like Schrodinger's Debris


At Least the Warranty is Good
By EricMartello on 4/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: At Least the Warranty is Good
By Lastfreethinker on 4/6/2009 2:17:00 PM , Rating: 2
How do you make rancid Kim chi when it is in itself rancid?


By EricMartello on 4/7/2009 11:24:29 AM , Rating: 2
Kimchi is fermented not rancid...DURR


Missle name
By plowak on 4/6/2009 2:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
I've always thought a good name for North Korea's long range missile would be..."Long Dong".




In other, other news...
By UNHchabo on 4/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: In other, other news...
By 16nm on 4/6/2009 1:27:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Didn't everyone vote for him so we wouldn't be at war?

Nope, Obama was only against the war in Iraq. He was quite clear about the war in Afghanistan which was to stay and fight, not walk away. The last person to conquer this land was Genghis Khan iirc. Of course, this means nothing today.

Obviously, there is some intelligence that Obama can not ignore to cause a continuance of the Bush rhetoric. He's even commented that there are very real terroristic threats still today which sounds like more Bush talk.


FAIL
By GlassHouse69 on 4/6/09, Rating: -1
"Well, there may be a reason why they call them 'Mac' trucks! Windows machines will not be trucks." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer

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