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Nissan also sat up an independent global advisory board

Nissan has a handful of not so happy Leaf electric vehicle owners in the state of Arizona. The hotter the environment, the less drive time an electric vehicle's batteries can offer. Nissan has been catching significant flak over allegations that the battery packs in some of its Leaf EV's in the state of Arizona are having issues. 
 
In July of 2012, Nissan dealerships in the state of Arizona started taking $5,000 off the sticker price of the electric Leaf vehicle to sell the cars. Several Leaf owners in Arizona began complaining that the electric vehicles were losing significant battery capacity due to the hot environment.
 
Leaf owner Scott Yarosh said, "When I first purchased the vehicle, I could drive to and from work on a single charge, approximately 90 miles round trip. [Now] I can drive approximately 44 miles on this without having to stop and charge."
 
I Nissan's Carla Bailo, senior VP of research and development, stepped up and addressed Leaf owners in an open letter posted to the Leaf community at the MyNissanLeaf discussion forum. According to the open letter, several Leaf EVs were inspected in Arizona and were determined to be operating to specification and the battery capacity loss over time is consistent with their usage and the operating environment. Nissan declared no defects are found in these vehicles.
 
 
The letter also states,  "A small number of Nissan Leaf owners in Arizona are experiencing a greater than average battery capacity loss due to their unique usage cycle, which includes operating mileages that are higher than average in a high-temperature environment over a short period of time."
 
It sounds like what Nissan is saying is that losing significant driving range is normal. Most owners of the Leaf EV are going to have a hard time stomaching that claim.

Nissan has also promised more open communication with owners of the Leaf EV. The company created an independent global advisory board, headed by EV advocate Chelsea Sexton to help with customer communications and advise Nissan on strategy.

Nissan has promised that the 2013 Leaf will have a longer driving range.

Source: Autoblog



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More reason -
By Dr of crap on 9/25/2012 9:10:44 AM , Rating: 2
to not buy these things. Same goes for cold weather - like freezing weather.

And they wonder why no one wants to buy them - hmmmm.




RE: More reason -
By Motoman on 9/25/12, Rating: 0
RE: More reason -
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 9:52:12 AM , Rating: 1
I suppose batter cooling is not feasible???


RE: More reason -
By ipay on 9/25/2012 9:57:54 AM , Rating: 5
It is, but takes the pancakes longer to cook when you do.


RE: More reason -
By theapparition on 9/25/2012 10:49:49 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, I laughed at that one.


RE: More reason -
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 5:11:20 PM , Rating: 2
Oh God, I just realized why you replied like that. LOL!


RE: More reason -
By Apone on 9/25/2012 12:20:26 PM , Rating: 4
@ Spuke

That's really the issue which Nissan's VP is neglecting to address. The root of the problem is the Leaf's ill-designed battery cooling system that is contributing to the battery failures and/or reduced driving range. You'll notice the Chevy Volt doesn't have this problem because GM significantly invested in R&D to create a solid coolant-based system to keep the Volt's batteries from malfunctioning due to extreme hot or cold weather.


RE: More reason -
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 9/25/2012 5:04:42 PM , Rating: 3
You mean, like the Volt, Tesla and other vehicles with liquid cooled/heated battery management?


RE: More reason -
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 5:12:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You mean, like the Volt, Tesla and other vehicles with liquid cooled/heated battery management?
Yes.


RE: More reason -
By Pneumothorax on 9/25/2012 9:54:30 AM , Rating: 2
Well, what ticks me off is that they're getting $7000+ tax credits on these POS cars!


RE: More reason -
By Kathalas on 9/25/2012 11:04:54 AM , Rating: 1
$7500 tax credit , which may or may not result in $7500 in your pocket (most likely not).
What strikes me as crazy is spending (even including the tax credit and this extra $5000 off) OVER $24K on a car that is basically the same as a $11000 nissan Versa, only you can only drive it 90 miles (yeah, right) between charges and you are looking at huge costs to replace the battery after a lot less miles of usage than an ICE. That over $13K that I saved by buying the ICE equivalent will buy a LOT of gas. Like the Volt owners commercial "I never have to buy gas" or "I only buy gas once a month".. true I'm sure, but you paid for your gas up front when you paid almost $40K for a non-ICE version of a $19K Cruze... again the $21K saved buys me a LOT of gas. Heck, if I had $40K to spend on a vehicle, it sure wouldn't be on a car based on a $19k car but with batteries and electric motor.
Battery vehicles time will come, but not yet.


RE: More reason -
By dgingerich on 9/25/2012 11:46:33 AM , Rating: 2
a tax credit is directly to the person's pocket. Yes, they do get $7500. Even if they owe taxes otherwise, this would go toward that owed tax and pay them the remainder. Examples of this are the electric and hybrid vehicle tax credits and education tax credits. (I know this because I had education tax credits for the last three years.)

A tax write off is just a reduction of the taxable income, meaning it would be anywhere from 15 to 39% of that amount as the actual money they would have reduced on their taxes paid. Examples of this would be charitable contributions and mortgage interest.

I think you're getting these mixed up. I just wanted to clarify.


RE: More reason -
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 12:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a tax credit is directly to the person's pocket. Yes, they do get $7500. Even if they owe taxes otherwise, this would go toward that owed tax and pay them the remainder.
You don't get money in your pocket from tax credits. You get a reduction in tax liability . If you owe $7500 or less in taxes, you can apply the credit towards that amount. You NEVER get ANY cash!!! This is NOT a rebate.


RE: More reason -
By theapparition on 9/25/2012 12:22:56 PM , Rating: 2
Correct.

Deductions reduce your taxable income which then get taxed at whatever bracket you fall in.
Credits reduce your tax owed.

But as Spuke correctly pointed out, if you don't have $7500+ owed in taxes, you're not going to get all that money back.


RE: More reason -
By FITCamaro on 9/25/2012 12:51:59 PM , Rating: 1
That's not true. The Earned Income Credit is the prime example of this. If what you're saying was true, then no one would have a negative tax liability(got back what they paid in plus FAR more).


RE: More reason -
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 9/25/2012 5:07:17 PM , Rating: 2
The EV tax credit never ends up with the gov't paying you anything, the best you can end up with is $0 tax liability. So, if you don't earn enough to owe the feds $7500, or you have a bunch of deductions or other credits, you may not qualify for all $7500 of the credit, and there is no carryforward either.

Guess how I know.


RE: More reason -
By dgingerich on 9/25/2012 3:17:25 PM , Rating: 2
I wish I was wrong, honestly. I know for certain that a person getting either the electric/hybrid vehicle credit or the education credit will get that extra money in the form of a tax refund.

Take a certain person who both went to college (finishing a pre-law degree) and got an electric vehicle. Without the tax credits, he would have qualified for $813 as a tax refund. With these two credits, he got a $10,813 tax refund, and ended up with paying an actual amount to federal taxes of a whole $13 for the year. Essentially paying a tax rate of less than 0.1%. This Democrat lovin hippie (a certain cousin of mine) bragged about it for months, and about how good the government was to the people and the environment.


RE: More reason -
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 5:19:44 PM , Rating: 3
That's not a tax CREDIT, that's a rebate. Two difference things. Sorry dude but tax credits NEVER give you cash. PERIOD!!! There ARE rebates on EV's in certain states. Look it up! The IRS's website explains how tax credits work. You can even look up how the individual credits work (some you can carry over to the following year).


RE: More reason -
By bah12 on 9/25/2012 5:49:12 PM , Rating: 2
Regardless of which is correct, the fact is $7500 is lost in Tax revenue. Which is the point, every one of these POS cars cost the tax payer money. Be it from a refund or lost revenue, it still costs us money.


RE: More reason -
By StevoLincolnite on 9/25/2012 11:47:08 AM , Rating: 2
I'm still waiting for the day we fly around in the Jetsons type vehicles. :(


RE: More reason -
By bill.rookard on 9/25/2012 12:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
Please say you're kidding. Have you ever seen how badly people DRIVE in Detroit? Let alone let them FLY?!?

If they ever make that type of vehicle I'm gonna reinforce my f*#(ing roof for sure. While googles self-driving demos are impressive, I'm not sure I'm willing to have some idiot land on my head with an out of control air-car.


RE: More reason -
By Darkskypoet on 9/25/2012 11:51:02 AM , Rating: 2
Don't drag the volt into this. Have you ever driven a Chevy Volt? I spent a day tooling around in one... Seriously, to anyone who has driven a Volt, you sound like a moron when you compare a Cruze to a Volt... It has more right being called a Cadillac Volt as opposed to a Chevy Volt. Fit, finish, trim, etc. The Cruze is no where even close.

Further, the fact that it has an ICE inside of it kinda debases your claim that it is a non-ICE version of the Cruze... Sigh.

Bash away at government subsidies all you want, but unless you have a a slight fraction of a morsel of a particle of a clue about the Volt, don't slam it till you've driven one. Its a really nice f**king car, and like most halo products its expensive but a damn impressive tech demo. If I could've gotten a better financing rate out of GM (they don't do 0.9% on Volts. no incentives, nothing) I'd have gone that way over the TDI I bought instead.

*note: I used to just like the Volt from a tech side of things, then decided I had to go and use it to see for myself. I totally recommend finding a GM dealer and just having fun for an afternoon with one. We drove 30km on like 1/4 of its electric range, and in sport mode it pulls like a mofo. The leaf is a piece of garbage in comparison.


RE: More reason -
By theapparition on 9/25/2012 12:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
Come on now. This is basic Internet 101. Bash products you've never actually used.

I'd wager that most foreign car lovers haven't driven a modern domestic car lately to see the drastic change in quality. It's always the typical, well I had a Ford Pinto once, so I'll never own a Detroit car again.

Or that most Apple fanboys haven't touched an Android phone (and vice versa) and want to criticize the others choice just because it doesn't line up with their "winning" team.

I could go on, but you're right. The Volt is really nice. I was once on a waiting list for one, and then dropped off when the official announcement was made. Went from decent styling to bland mobile. But after driving one, I was pretty impressed at how tight the entire package was. Anyone thinking it's an expensive Cruze has no idea what they are talking about (just like those who think an EVO is an expensive Lancer). And the automotive press agrees, awarding the Volt more awards than any other car last year.

Yeah the price is high, and can't be justified by many. I'll concede that point.


RE: More reason -
By Dr of crap on 9/25/2012 2:24:54 PM , Rating: 2
The Volt could be the best damn driving car out there, and it still has a problem.

I'm not disbuting the fact that it might be a good/fun car to drive.

Here's the problem. It has batteries that will propell it about 35 miles, let's not get into the range debate. So if you only drive a few miles in town, you don't need gas. Everyone gets this.

If you drive farther the gas engine starts and this propels you down the road, let's not get into the debate about driving by engine or battery power AFTER battery depletion.

So if you drive a lot, and you get over 35 miles the Volt really doesn't benefit you since on gas power you get about 35mpg. (do we need the exact number?) If you drive farther than 35 miles you don't really get the beenfit of NOT needing/using gas.

So there really is a small niche of drivers that benefit from this EV/hybid called the Volt. AND they threw a lot of luxury items at it and made the price "seem" fair.

But it's over priced at best as layed out by other posters on here. Your better off buying the Cruise and paying for the gas needed and pocketing the money you saving by not buying the OVER priced Volt.

AS well as the problems of using the Volt in the high heat and the freezing temps. Maybe you think they have this figured out, but I know at -30°F that battery pack will not go 35 miles and do it everyday!

Add in the fact that the govt is giving tax breaks as well, and it's been pointed out that the majority of Volt buyers have incomes OVER $150,000 - you see WHY people pick on it and yet the PR machine tries and keeps the Volt name in the news as often as they can to sell the damn thing!


RE: More reason -
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 9/25/2012 5:11:01 PM , Rating: 2
I've had my Volt for about 13 months, and in that time my electric mileage is right around 83%. This is my only vehicle, except for my motorcycle.

https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/792

It used to be 90%, but I'm in the process of moving so there's been quite a lot of ICE driving these last 2 weeks.


RE: More reason -
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 9/25/2012 5:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
(actually, it's up at 89%, was looking at the wrong column, my electric mileage is ranked >83% of other voltstats drivers)


RE: More reason -
By bill.rookard on 9/25/2012 12:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
Very true. My brother in law bought a Cruze, it's a pretty nice car and it gets 30-40mpg (1.6 turbo I believe so it scoots pretty well).

Assuming he drives 20k miles a year and stays off the turbo he is paying $500-700 a year for gas. Assuming 40k for the Volt, $7500 tax credit, $33000 out the door, it would take him on average 15 years to recoup the price difference (at $4/gal).

In that regard, it's much like the solar power debacle. Why spend $20k on a system that wont recover the costs until it needs replacing? You're not any better off, and the key to any really effective green tech is that it MUST be somewhat affordable to drive wide scale adoption.


RE: More reason -
By FITCamaro on 9/25/2012 12:53:26 PM , Rating: 1
1.4L turbo.

My average over 10k miles is 41.5 mpg. Many others are doing far better since their commutes allow for constant 55-60 mph speeds resulting in 50+ mpg (calculated at the pump).


RE: More reason -
By dgingerich on 9/25/2012 11:40:57 AM , Rating: 2
I find it funny that people just don't comprehend that extreme heat and cold damage lithium ion batteries. (These same stupid people frequently leave their laptops in their car and complain when the battery fails.) The only way the heat of Arizona isn't going to hurt the batteries is if they use nickel hydride batteries, which have a lower capacity and other challenges.

Simply put, electric vehicles and hybrids are going to have higher battery failures in Arizona and other high heat areas, along with extreme cold areas like Minnesota and North Dakota. There's no way around that. If you live there, don't get an electric vehicle or hybrid.

no, extra battery cooling while running isn't going to help. In order for it to avoid damage to the batteries, the ambient air must be below 100F. (Lithium ion batteries start degrading significantly faster at temps above 90F.) Arizona sees a lot of days above that. no matter how many fans you put in, it won't get cooler than the ambient air.

In order to cool the batteries under those conditions, they would have to use phase change or peltier cooling, which would waste significant amounts of power and totally destroy the usefulness of electric vehicles. Hybrids might be able to handle that part, but installing such things would be quite expensive.


RE: More reason -
By FishTankX on 9/26/2012 2:22:45 AM , Rating: 2
One more option they could take is use two stage evaporative cooling.

Basically what two phase evaporative cooling does, is take the incoming charge of air, and pass it through a water soaked filter. This cools the incoming air. Then that air is used to cool the air intake for the second stage. The second stage uses the cooled air and passes it through a second medium. This can result in a temperature drop of over 30F, and isn't nearly as energy intensive as phase change cooling. Simply use the air to cool the battery compartment directly.


Why would anyone buy ...
By danjw1 on 9/25/2012 11:59:48 AM , Rating: 3
Why would anyone buy this car that when the manufacturer is blaming the customer for it not working correctly. Anyone who buys a Nissan at this point is a fool(and yes, I mean any Nissan). If this is their corporate culture, then everyone needs to run the other direction when ever they get near a dealership. What a fiasco.




RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 12:08:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would anyone buy this car that when the manufacturer is blaming the customer for it not working correctly.
Removing all doubt.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Apone on 9/25/2012 2:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe this is Nissan pulling an Apple with their "You're driving it wrong!" PR statement...


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By dgingerich on 9/25/2012 3:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone who would buy a hybrid or electric vehicle in Arizona, or any place with a long period of consistent temps over 95F, is a fool. Batteries degrade with high temps, and if the ambient temp is too high, no amount of added cooling is going to help.

It's not Nissan's fault they're making such a bad decision. It's not their fault some people are just too stupid.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Qapa on 9/25/2012 6:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
Not really, there is battery warranty... of 5 years or so, and some statement that it should retain 80% of battery after 10 years.

So, up to 5 years, whenever the battery is under 80% of full operating capacity (when "currently fully charged"), then Nissan should, under warranty provide a new battery. Period!

No conditions on "how the car was driven" since that is not in the warranty.

No conditions on "where was the car located was too hot" since that is not in the warranty.

But still, here in Europe, I tried to ask about that specifically and got some vague answers... either they back it up, or they should not have such warranty. If they have it, they should be made to comply with it! Period! And that weighted in for not buying the Leaf... among price...


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 4:13:03 PM , Rating: 2
I bought the Leaf so I could drive my car for free (over-sized solar panels on my house roof, installed a few years ago). I live in Colorado which is a perfect climate for an EV. Sure there are temp extremes but, unlike Az, the temps are not extended (this is what kills the battery). The battery is fine at < 120 F and Co rarely gets that hot and if it does it's only for an hour at most. Gets really cold at night while the car's in the garage which doesn't get below 30 F. Really though cold doesn't 'kill' the battery, it just decreased the amount of energy that can be stored by a slight amount.

The Leaf is the first mass-produced EV. It will have technical problems. As battery tech gets better (and cheaper) the major problem goes away. In 5 years time we will have solid state batteries (Envia) with Li-Air coming soon after.

Honestly I never want a gas powered car again. EVs are so much simpler - one moving part in the engine (motor in this case) and a simple gear ratio changing single speed transmission. No oil changes. No waiting in line at the gas station.

The people that buy EVs currently drive less than 70 miles in a day. They want to move away from the addiction of oil and realize there's no better fuel source - Hydrogen is a joke as it either use hydrocarbons (oil/gas) or uses massive amounts of energy and clean water for hydrolysis. Electric Vehicles is the only solution to keep the current infrastructure where people own their own vehicles.

I enjoy my Leaf and plan to have it for at least another 5 years at which point I'll buy another EV.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 5:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Electric Vehicles is the only solution to keep the current infrastructure where people own their own vehicles.
Really? Care to post some data that supports that claim?
quote:
I enjoy my Leaf and plan to have it for at least another 5 years at which point I'll buy another EV.
I have no plans to even buy a hybrid in the next 10 years. I may just end up being that old man that hangs onto his super old, POS car. I'll buy what I choose to buy, period.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 7:52:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Really? Care to post some data that supports that claim?
Sure!

Gas power: Limited gas resources. Volatile price. Harmful to environment - spills especially. Funds OPEC (indirectly for the US). Highly inefficient use of energy - 60% energy is lost in heat instead of moving the vehicle.

Corn based fuel: Growing corn is difficult on the soil - nutrients - and the amount of fuel/resources to plow, plant, water, fertilize, and harvest the fields of corn uses a lot of fuel. The land needed for corn will also replace fields for food and increase food prices. In times of drought who gets the water? The corn fields or the humans?

Sugar Cane based fuel: More efficient than corn but still runs into the problem of sugar cane fields instead of food, water needs, and the need of high heat to create the fuel from sugar cane.

Compressed Natural Gas: Highly compressed gas in a tank is dangerous (much more so than batteries or gas tanks) due to fume leaks and explosions from a puncture or from ignition. Large amounts of energy (relative) to compress it. Still relies on hydrocarbons.

Hydrogen: Highly volatile. No efficient way to make it. Best way to get hydrogen is from hydrocarbons. Hydrolysis is highly inefficient as it uses more energy to divide water than will be returned when the hydrogen is recombined with oxygen; also uses drinking grade water which is better used for human consumption. Storage and transportation is a huge problem as Hydrogen escapes easily from containers. Home-based hydrolysis is possible but due to small scale it is even less efficient energy wise.

Electric Vehicles: The source of energy doesn't matter: Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, Wind, Solar, Dams all produce the same electrons. As the nation gets cleaner with more wind, solar, and hopefully nuclear the cleaner the EV drives. Battery technology is advancing at a very high pass now that large amounts of funding is going into R&D. Highly efficient with electricity use. ~ 15% energy loss from battery to movement.

Gas is getting near its high price again and $5/gal is not far off. At that point many more people will start to move away from ICE vehicles. For those who travel locally, EVs are perfect. For those that must travel long distances, hybrids are a good compromise for the time being; at least until a nationwide network of charging stations is in place, at which point EVs will be the only car anyone will ever need.

quote:
I'll buy what I choose to buy, period
Who is telling you to by hybrids or EVs? I'm not.
I am simply pointing out that gas powered vehicles are not feasible for another century and no other propulsion system that's been proposed is any more feasible besides Electric Vehicles. I'm sorry that you like you ICE vehicle, but I'd ask you to please keep an open mind and if you're ever by a Nissan dealership, take a Leaf for a spin. It's not a sports car but the instant torque is still fun ;)


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 8:25:01 PM , Rating: 2
Who is telling you to buy hybrids or EVs?

should be

Who is forcing you to buy hybrids of EVs?

I am saying that people should consider hybrids/EVs but am in no way forcing you to buy them =)


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By danjw1 on 9/25/2012 11:16:45 PM , Rating: 2
And you are comfortable with Nissan blaming their customers about the issues? If the car can't perform properly in a particular climate, why are they selling it there?

I am glad that you like your car. I have no problem with EVs, I have a problem when a company blames the customer for a problem with the car. In fact when it becomes more feasible for me, I would like to own an EV. It just isn't going to come from a company that blames their customer for problems with the car. If the customer was really abusing the car, that would be one thing. But, it seems like the issue is the heat, not the use.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/26/2012 12:23:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And you are comfortable with Nissan blaming their customers about the issues? If the car can't perform properly in a particular climate, why are they selling it there?
I am in no way defending Nissan. What I am doing is answering the post's question, "Why would anyone buy an EV"


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Dr of crap on 9/26/2012 8:32:05 AM , Rating: 2
Two points -

1 - You state the EV drivers only go 70 miles per day. Know at lot of EV owners to you? I'm just joking but you're right because that's about ALL the range you can get right at the moment. A REAL reason most are not buying these EVs. And in either high heat or very cold and that 70 miles beomes less and no good for most.

2 - WHY only keep it for 5 years??? You said that there isn't hardly any maintanence, one engine, simple design so it will last more than 5 years. Why the trade in at that point????


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/26/2012 11:20:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You state the EV drivers only go 70 miles per day.
This takes into account the hot/cold weather. I can drive over 100 miles if needed. I've only done it once though; agian I really never need ot drive that far.

quote:
WHY only keep it for 5 years???
My mom really wants my Leaf. Her Prius is 7 years old now. She wants to buy my Leaf when her Prius turns 10. At which point I'll pick up a new EV. Looking at the Tesla Bluestar (code name for their next sedan) or the BMW i3. I may look at the Inifinity based off of the Leaf, but that comes down to how Nissan handles this current issue.


Reality check
By Beenthere on 9/25/2012 10:03:50 AM , Rating: 3
First of all, all batteries lose performance with an increase in temperature. Second people should know by now that driving style has a significant influence on mpg in gas engines and battery life in EVs. If you don't know the above, you're technically illiterate and should read your Owner's Manual before going "postal" over a drop in mpg or battery life in very hot weather conditions like experienced in AZ.

BTW, I don't recommend EVs to anyone except for city driving. A 90 mile daily commute is asking a lot of an EV without a charge while it sits parked at work.




RE: Reality check
By Dr of crap on 9/25/2012 11:02:09 AM , Rating: 2
Your assuming that the average person is THAT smart.
And that's why even with gas at $4 and everyone is compalining about it, they still drive at 70 mph plus on a 60 mph road. You can't teach common sense!

To quote George Carlin -
Think about how stupid the average person is, and realize that HALF of the population is stupider than that!


RE: Reality check
By bill.rookard on 9/25/2012 11:48:54 AM , Rating: 2
No kidding. I drive around at somewhat normal speeds (70-75 on the freeway) and I can't tell you how often I see Prius drivers tooling (pun intended) around at 80-90mph or more. I really want to slap them around cause those eco-responsible vehicles are still subject to the laws of physics where the air resistance goes up with the square of the velocity.

That means the gas mileage drop precipitously the faster you go - but they just think their 'green mobile' magically avoids that problem.

Oh - and love the George Carlin quote... and it's true.


RE: Reality check
By DiscoWade on 9/25/2012 12:26:43 PM , Rating: 2
I always think of those big SUV's loaded to the max and then some stuff on top speeding by at 80+ MPH. On very long trips on I-95, I would often see the same SUV pass by me several times speeding. They had to stop for gas. The net result is you are saving little time and spending a lot more money. I see this a lot when I travel to Florida on I-95.


RE: Reality check
By FITCamaro on 9/25/2012 12:57:02 PM , Rating: 2
Unless you notice several cars over the course of multiple days, its doubtful you see the same car pass you more than twice. More likely they're getting off to let kids go to the bathroom, get food, etc. I do 75-78 on 95 going to Florida.

Even my GTO when I had it could make it to Orlando on a single tank of gas (almost exactly 400 miles).


not surprising
By chromal on 9/25/2012 12:14:17 PM , Rating: 2
I think the Leaf is fine as a city car, but the moment you start talking about 90 mile commutes, you really need to be looking at something with a normal range.

A lot of this is why I expect I'll be driving internal combustion vehicles as long as I continue to live 45 miles west and 3000ft above my place of work near Denver, CO.




Nissan Leaf
By Richard875yh5 on 9/25/2012 3:27:32 PM , Rating: 2
Screw Nissan. Buy a Volt in which GM stands behind whole heartedly.




It's a real pity...
By Beenthere on 9/25/2012 5:01:35 PM , Rating: 2
...that science has not determined how to fix STUPIDITY short of a bullet. It's such a waste of good lead.




What about fit for purpose?
By eldakka on 9/26/2012 12:56:50 AM , Rating: 2
If Nissan is selling the vehicle in Arizona, then it should be suitable for the conditions there. The vehicle should work as advertised and as specc'ed.

If the vehicle has these problems, then Nissan shouldn't be selling them in Arizona (or places with similiar temperatures).

If the leaf wasn't available from Nissan dealers in Arizona, so a resident went from Arizona to, say, Chicago, and bought a leaf there, then brought it back to Arizona and had these issues, then bad luck. It was sold only in higher latitudes because of the functioning of the vehicle.

However, since the vehicle IS sold in Nissan dealerships in Arizona, it should be fit for purpose for use in Arizona. It should attain and maintain the claimed distance and specified battery cycle.




Nissan Leaf
By Richard875yh5 on 9/26/2012 11:21:35 AM , Rating: 2
Just talking about the Leaf battery deterioration won't cut the cake. Do like GM did with the Volt. Give the owners a chance to sell it back to Nissan. Everyone talks about how evil GM is, but when it comes to an Asian car, that's okay. The media is very quiet about it.....those foreign cars are Teflon coated. They can do no wrong.




i was told to buy one
By bond007taz on 9/25/12, Rating: -1
RE: i was told to buy one
By anactoraaron on 9/25/12, Rating: 0
"It's okay. The scenarios aren't that clear. But it's good looking. [Steve Jobs] does good design, and [the iPad] is absolutely a good example of that." -- Bill Gates on the Apple iPad














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