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Big changes are in store for Ford's iconic pony car

Ford's iconic Mustang is in for some big changes when it launches in 2014 as a 2015 model year vehicle. Not only will there be big changes under the hood of the Mustang, but the car's retro styling will be tossed aside as will the solid rear axle that has graced standard-issue Mustang's since 1964.
 
I. EcoBoost to the Rescue
Automotive News reports that Ford executives have confirmed the adoption of EcoBoost engines for the next generation Mustang. Ford has committed to making EcoBoost available to 90 percent of its nameplates by 2013, and adding in the Mustang will take that figure closer to 100 percent.
 
Although Automotive News doesn't give any specifics on which engines will be available, two immediately spring to mind: the 2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder and the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6. The 2.0 is good for 240 - 252hp (depending on the state tune) in the Explorer, Escape, and Focus ST. If Hyundai can get 274hp out of its 2.0-liter turbo four for its FWD family sedan (while running regular unleaded), Ford can certainly hit 300hp in the Mustang. This would bring it more in line with the 305hp, 3.7-liter V6 currently available in the base Mustang while providing better fuel economy.


Ford's 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6
 
You can thank CAFE for even the thought of bringing back a four-cylinder engine option to the Mustang (hello, SVO).
 
Things could get more interesting if Ford chooses to add in the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6. That engine is rated at 365hp in the Taurus SHO and with some massaging could dance quite close to the 400+ hp currently available in the 5.0-liter V8.
 
One thing's for certain, however, the Mustang's V8 option isn't likely to go away anytime soon. A Mustang without a V8 option is like a Viper without a V10. Besides, the 5.0 is a gem of a motor.
 
II. Miss Mr. Independent
The next change in store for the Mustang is the adoption of an independent rear suspension (IRS) across the board. Ford last toyed with an IRS for the Mustang with the fourth generation Cobra. That experiment didn't last long, however, and the fifth generation Mustang went back to being solid rear axle only. Ford CEO Alan Mulally is hoping to make the next generation Mustang more of a "world" car that can appeal equally to Americans and Europeans, and the Mustang's "ox cart" rear suspension has always been the butt of jokes.
 
The Mustang's pony car brethren (Camaro, Challenger) have moved to an independent rear suspension following their respective resurrections from the dead. Switching to an IRS hasn't hurt Camaro sales, which have outpaced Mustang sales for the past two years, so we doubt that Ford will lose any sleep over what naysayers might think about the switch (Ford is already testing mules with an IRS).
 
III. Out with the Retro, in with “Kinetic”
Another big change for the Mustang will come in its styling direction. When the fifth generation car was introduced in 2004 as a 2005 model, it was decidedly retro, harking back to the original 1964.5 model.
 
However, the sixth generation Mustang will reportedly take some styling cues from the Evos concept car. If you recall, the Evos was a precursor to the design direction for the 2013 Ford Fusion. While the Mustang won't be a carbon copy of Evos (or the Fusion for the matter), we can expect to see final design that will be look more towards the future than to the past.


Ford Evos Concept
 
Ford’s sixth generation Mustang will bring big changes on many fronts. New engines will keep it in step with more stringent fuel economy standards while the IRS will bring it in line with every other modern performance car with regards to ride/handling. Rest assured, if Ford screws the pooch with the Mustang, there will be legions of fans with pitchforks storming Dearborn, Michigan.

Source: Automotive News



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SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By WT on 8/27/2012 9:25:04 AM , Rating: 3
The adoption of the IRS has been a long time coming, but Ford always said it will raise the price of the Mustang as well, so don't complain if its base price is now higher.

The GT500 just tested in the latest issue of 'Motor Trend' turned in better lap times than the Camaro ZR1, unfortunately its brakes let it down and each lap became slower as the brakes overheated, whereas the Camaro was more consistent in its lap times with well ventilated brakes and no fade.

Road course favors the Camaro
Drag strip favors the Mustang




RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By chµck on 8/27/2012 9:32:18 AM , Rating: 2
Would changing the stock brakes help?


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By WT on 8/27/2012 1:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
It appears not, as it is an issue of ducting air to those brakes, and the Camaro did that properly, but the Ford did not have adequate air being directed to the brakes.
We are talking about a Mustang that can sniff 200 mph here (196 from test cars), so I somehow think the Mustang just isn't designed well enough to deal with all of that 662HP. Yea, it can put it down to the track much better than you'd expect from an SRA setup, but STOPPING it at those speeds ... ?!?


By Shane McGlaun (blog) on 8/28/2012 8:10:51 AM , Rating: 2
This isn't accurate. A very common modification on any road car (not just a Ford) used for road racing is the addition of brake cooling ducts, higher temp DOT 4 brake fluid and brake pads that are able to survive higher temperatures. all of these parts are available right now on the aftermarket.

I spent a lot of time road racing a 2012 Boss 302 before I sold it for a dedicated track car a few months ago. It used the same brake system as the 12 GT500 and I had no issues with brake fade on the track in Texas when it was 120 on the racing surface and 105 ambient with a track known to be very hard on brakes. A simple fluid swap and racing pads will fix the brake issues that people think is such a huge liability for the 13 GT500 for a few hundred bucks.


By Shane McGlaun (blog) on 8/28/2012 8:16:49 AM , Rating: 2
I forgot to mention that the Boss 302 racing cars haven't needed IRS to be very, very competitive against all comers. In fact in some racing bodies they were so dominant restrictions were placed on engine performance so the IRS equipped vehicles could compete.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By FITCamaro on 8/27/2012 9:33:25 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah IRS is great for handling but more expensive and sacrifices things on the drag strip.


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 10:39:15 AM , Rating: 2
It does crack me up when the 2010 model came out and everyone was crowing that Ford "solved" the problem with the solid rear.

While they made improvements, it was in no way comparable to a true IRS when it mattered.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 11:55:36 AM , Rating: 3
Granted Ford did an amazing job getting the back end of that car settled, but hat problem was solved wayyy long ago. It's called a watts link. Many racers use them for road courses. Handling is night and day. Even as good as they've managed to get it, watts link provides infinintely beter handling. Of course an adj pan hard bar works just fine on the strip and if that's what you use a mustang for, theres no reason to even go to a watts. Of course compared to an IRS, yeah you're going to give some handling up, but you cant beat the durability, price, ease of maintenance/repair of a solid axle. I pray they will have a solid axle option for us racers.

I think the 2013 is to be the pinnacle of the mustang. 2014/15 will become a "world" car aka it will probably suck. I'm probably picking up a 2013 bc I just dont see the world car relaunch as anything but the death of mustang brand. All the concept pics, and everything else about this new car has me worried.


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 12:53:14 PM , Rating: 2
Not quite.

The panhard bar keeps the rear end aligned to the body during normal ride height. The problem you describe is during suspension travel, the panhard bar pulls the chassis off axis. Adjustable panhard rods do nothing to mitigate this, other than being adjustable to fine tune the centered height, particularly with lowered cars. This causes weight redistribution during suspension travel, particularly bad during cornering at high speeds. Makes cornering sloppy.

The Watts link was designed to solve the problem of the panhard bar. It certainly helps on the road course, but at the end of the day road courses =/= daily driving.

Watts link can't help situations like potholes, uneven pavement or ground. That's where the IRS shines over the SRA.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 2:40:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This causes weight redistribution during suspension travel, particularly bad during cornering at high speeds. Makes cornering sloppy.


and what does that have to do with a strip? Bro, I said a adj panhard bar is fine for the strip, as in a straight line. You can adj it so you are nice and centered when your car squats at launch. The only time you corner on a drag strip is when you turn in to get your ET! and by then I hope you're going slower...a lot slower. ;D

If you're going to road course your car, like I said, get a watts. I sure as fuq didnt did not say "If you're going shopping, get a watts!" Also, at the same time, if you're going to road course, why buy a mustang? There are better options than that.

I dont doubt the superiority of and IRS for handling, but it is for strip use inferior, more expensive and all the other reasons I've mentioned.

For most people its a check box. People who do not track there cars will not ever really notice the difference that much to make them think "WHY!!!! WHY GOD!!!, DEAR SWEET BUTTER CORN BABY JESUS?! WHY DID YOU LET ME GET AN SOLID AXLE!!???!", unless they live in Baltimore. If your worry is potholes tho, then you should be looking into another type of car all together.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By chrnochime on 8/27/2012 2:45:53 PM , Rating: 2
So anyone who wants to have decent ride on roads with potholes should avoid all muscles cars according to your logic? Great reasoning!!


By Manch on 8/27/2012 3:00:27 PM , Rating: 3
No dumb fuq, they should avoid the potholes! duh!


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 6:31:35 PM , Rating: 1

Yes?

There's no such thing as a muscle car with a "good" ride. There's just varying degrees of harsh. So yeah, the Mustang's ride is probably a bit harsher than most, but if you're even shopping for something in that category, that's already a sacrifice you're willing to make.

And where in the HELL do you people live? The roads in my area are pretty bad, but hell, you guys sound like you have potholes every 100 feet! Wtf? If potholes are SO bad they are actually influencing your choice of vehicle, the rear suspension type if the LEAST of your worries.


By Spuke on 8/27/2012 7:07:01 PM , Rating: 1
Dude, freeways in CA are horrible but I'll still take my Solstice's ride any day over some pansy car! No cushy rides for me. Is it harsh? Believe it or not I get complements on the ride and I got KW V3 coilovers, GM Z0K sway bars and some Dunlop Star Specs. I have to swerve to avoid road kill. I scrape my lower airdam going into my driveway. :) And I have no mufflers (3 inches of straight thru glory!).


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Argon18 on 8/27/2012 12:14:18 PM , Rating: 2
How many of the 80,000 or so brand new 2012 mustangs sold are being using for drag strip competition? These are cars that middle aged men buy to commute to work, pick their children up from school, and go grocery shopping in. IRS improves handling significantly, so much so that I'd call it a safety item. Seat belts and airbags also increase cost. Should we ditch them to bring down the MSRP?


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:44:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
IRS improves handling significantly, so much so that I'd call it a safety item. Seat belts and airbags also increase cost. Should we ditch them to bring down the MSRP?


That is by far the dumbest arguement for an IRS ever. If these are commuter cars, then your point is even more stupid since in those scenarios, they will never reach the handling limits of the solid axle.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By chrnochime on 8/27/2012 2:33:20 PM , Rating: 3
The SRA just sucks at handling crappy road with potholes. No matter what you do with that rear axle, as long as the two wheels are connected to the two ends, there's no way both tires can have full contact with the ground when one is in a pot hole and the other isn't. Every time this is brought up the SRA fanboys just pretend that's not true. Guess what, all that other argument about amazing handling on glass smooth road courses don't mean squat out on the public road.

Tired of drag racers whining about Ford doing away with the SRA. Ford gets most of its mustangs sales from regular consumers, not drag racers. Go find a different car to drag race instead of making the public suffer for your hobby.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/12, Rating: -1
RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By fxnick on 8/27/2012 11:47:51 PM , Rating: 2
While "Race on Sunday Sell on Monday" might have been true in the 60s and 70s. I dont think it has any bearing on car sales today.
A nascar has nothing to do with a real car today other than 4 wheels...


By Manch on 8/28/2012 2:20:12 AM , Rating: 2
It may not be the same effect as it was but NASCAR along with there fans still generate immense brand loyalty.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By ihateu3 on 8/28/2012 7:53:23 AM , Rating: 1
Its a good thing that the mustang is going IRS. There is 50+ years of Mustangs out there with solid axles, and Mustangs are like assholes, everyone has one! So during your lifetime, I don't think you will have to worry about not finding any solid axle mustangs for the 1% of racers that still use Mustangs.

Hardcore drag racing has been on its way out, the younger generations realize that they can buy an EVO with four doors, can rally it, take corners around a track, easily run 9's at the strip dependably with a few mods, and still drive it daily without fear of other EVO's on every single corner with different racing stripes signifying the model of car...

EVO's are only one example, but in genral most people will take a car thats good at everything rather than the best at one thing. Sure EVO's don't run with the top Drag Mustangs, but they are close enough and can do other things as well! Most 9 second EVO's can still beat a factory Mustang at simple cornering, reliability and rarity which equals desirability. Now a 9 second Mustang on the other hand has none of those traits...


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By 91TTZ on 8/28/2012 2:01:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
realize that they can buy an EVO with four doors, can rally it, take corners around a track, easily run 9's at the strip dependably with a few mods,


I'd like you to show me an EVO that can run 9's dependably with only a few mods.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By ihateu3 on 8/29/2012 9:06:35 AM , Rating: 2
Buschur racing's daily driven full interior 9 second EVO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpf3fYGkFdo&feature...


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By 91TTZ on 8/29/2012 10:29:52 AM , Rating: 2
LOL, that car uses more than only a few mods. The entire engine is highly modified. That shouldn't be surprising since it's owned by a guy who owns a performance shop.

From their site:

quote:
What does it take to build a 9 second street car? Just an array of Buschur Racing parts such as the Buschur Racing Stages 1-4, BR BF 272 Camshafts, BR Stage 3 Head, BR Stage 3 2.0 Shortblock, AEM EMS, Tilton Clutch, Apexi EXV S1 Coilover suspension, HTA3586 Turbocharger w/ BR custom built front facing manifold and a Buschur Racing Double Pumper Fuel System. Those are the main components that drive this street terror.


In other words the entire engine is custom. They used a heavily modified shortblock (the entire bottom end of the engine), then slapped on a modified head, then slapped on modified cams, then they used a custom exhaust manifold, a custom turbo, a custom fuel system, and controlled the whole setup with an aftermarket computer. I'm also willing to bet that the transmission is modified to handle that kind of power.

The cost of those mods exceeds the value of the car. Also, if you look at the detailed list of their mods you'll see that the car has no catalytic converter and an aftermarket ECU, so there is no possible legal way that the car is a street legal daily driven car.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By ihateu3 on 8/29/2012 10:42:31 AM , Rating: 2
You consider that a lot of mods??? You know how expensive it is to get power like that out of an NA? In general, and it has been done many times prior, with a turbo motor you just add bigger turbo, fuel to supply it and a way to tune. With NA you are boring everything, chasing every aspect of porting you can do, replacing cams, adding headers and all thats aside of fueling and intake methods. The 2JZ is well documented to make 800 HP reliably without even opening the motor, with just more boost, more fuel, and a way to tune!

I am questioning your expertise when you said an aftermarket ECU cannot be street legal...

And most 9 sec cars (if not all) do not run cats, you should see this guys fast EVOs, and don't even get into the 20+ year old Toyota Supras...


By ihateu3 on 8/29/2012 10:48:22 AM , Rating: 2
Anyways, sorry about that rant, it was off topic. The point is, why would anyone buy a Mustang when there is much more potential in other vehicles at a better price point, with better reliability, better resale value, smaller engine (for the bragging rights of beating motors twice the size) and also the cool factor of not owning a car that everyone person owns?

I am only using the EVO as an example, but that car alone has so many pros as it is, it does everything good! The car can control the amount of torque applied to any one wheel at any given time in milliseconds, there's just so much more to be had out there but ignorance comes in the way of intelligence...


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By 91TTZ on 8/29/2012 12:49:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You consider that a lot of mods??? You know how expensive it is to get power like that out of an NA?


You're not going to get power like that out of an NA unless you rip engine out of a formula 1 car.

quote:
I am questioning your expertise when you said an aftermarket ECU cannot be street legal...


Emission compliance nowadays is done with car's factory ECU. To get inspected they connect to your ECU's OBD2 connector to check the state of your monitored systems. Aftermarket ECUs are not OBD2 and therefore cannot be used legally on the road. If you look at the manual for aftermarket ECUs you'll notice that they all say that they're for off-road use only. So I'll say it again- aftermarket ECUs are not street legal and cannot be made street legal.

quote:
And most 9 sec cars (if not all) do not run cats, you should see this guys fast EVOs, and don't even get into the 20+ year old Toyota Supras...


You cannot be street legal without cats. You'll never pass emissions.

I'm familiar with turbo cars, I have a 1991 300ZX TT. I recently upgraded the exhaust manifolds, turbos, downpipes, fuel injectors, and intakes. If I turn up the boost it'll make over 600 HP but that would require running race gas all the time. On pump gas you're restricted to running lower boost so I'm normally only making a little over 500 HP. It's not going to set any records but it still looks stock.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/29/2012 4:34:29 PM , Rating: 2
What color? That was one of my favorite cars of all time


By 91TTZ on 8/30/2012 9:52:38 AM , Rating: 2
Mine's silver.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By ihateu3 on 8/29/2012 9:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
I have a 2JZ swapped MKII Celica Supra, BTW I o=love the 300zx TT's!!!


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By 91TTZ on 8/30/2012 9:51:59 AM , Rating: 2
2JZ Celica- nice. What kind of power are you putting out on that thing? Those engines are crazy moddable.


By ihateu3 on 8/31/2012 2:33:38 AM , Rating: 2
Right now dynoed 390HP 415TQ on the stock motor straight off the boat with a 3" exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeGSNa2LbHg&list=UU...


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 2:49:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah IRS is great for handling but more expensive and sacrifices things on the drag strip.
This is 2012 and this is a street car. Not having IRS is unacceptable. Especially on what will be a 12 sec car. I guess I won't mention the 8 sec cars with IRS. I guess those cars are all suspended by fairy dust and unicorns. Any team worth their salt will make it happen on the drag strip. Solid axle is just an excuse for failure IMO.

Put me down in the check book camp for one of these new Mustangs.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 3:04:28 PM , Rating: 1
Come on. The IRS on that car is no where in the realm of what you'll find on a street car, and I doubt it's great at potholes either since that seems to be a great selling point about them. On the other hand people are using stock ford 8.8's and running 10's no problem. Youd be pushing your luck with an IRS. And he's talking about a drag strip, not a grocery run.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 3:29:41 PM , Rating: 3
Why is the debate on the freaking suspension!? We should be arguing about the Government forcing Ford to offer 4 cylinder engines in it's muscle car.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 4:33:05 PM , Rating: 2
Because some including me do not like the idea of an IRS only Mustang. We prefer the the old hat tech for drag racing because it's cheap, sturdy, and cant be beat for applying massive power to the ground. The counter arguement is the IRS is so much better for handling(true) and you can run over potholes(can be done with both but the former hurts yer bumm more). I would just like to have the option of having a solid axle.

Seriously, tho, this new chasis has to be able to handle serious power from a V8, so I dont see how putting a 4 banger in there is going to be any good. It will be sluggish for anything other than WOT, and even then i dont think it will be that great. When you look at it like that then why would you spend the money on it? Go buy a BRZ or something.

Since they are launching this as a world car, then my other question would be, what compromises did they make in order to achieve this besides IRS?

As far as teh government goes, they are slowly and painfully fuqing the American auto industry to death with this bull. The two remaining US automakers are going to turn into also rans trying to make euro clones. No one will want them and they'll need another bailout.

and go!


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 4:57:38 PM , Rating: 3
My question is, why can every other high horsepower car put power to the rear axle using an IRS? If they can do it, why not Ford?

Why is Ford the only one left? It can't be price, the Mustang isn't significantly less expensive than the Camaro.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 5:11:29 PM , Rating: 2
As I understand it Brandon, it's because their customers WANT the solid rear axle. They tried an IRS in the Cobra a while back, and people just hated it. They hated it so much, it was a common mod to rip the IRS out and put a solid rear in.

I'm not a "muscle car" guy, but I have to agree with the old school crowd. When it comes to putting massive power and torque down to the rear wheels, Fords setup rules the roost over IRS.

In my opinion the "ride quality" argument isn't valid either. A "sport tuned" IRS calibrated for a 400+HP car is going to have just as stiff and uncomfortable a ride as a solid-rear tuned for that much power. The Mustang is a pony car, not a family sedan, not really much else to say on that front.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 5:32:52 PM , Rating: 3
So if what you say is true, then a 560hp/500 lb-ft BMW M5 which runs 0-60 and the 1/4 mile faster than a 5.0 Mustang GT would have a more uncomfortable ride? I think not. The whole "POWER needs SRA" argument just doesn't make sense to me. Point me to ANY other modern high performance car out there that needs an SRA to put power to the ground.

By that token, a Bugatti Veyron should have both a solid front and rear axle ;)

There are plenty of RWD cars with more horsepower than Mustang that also have a better ride than the Mustang. This is not rocket science. It's not like IRS' were just designed yesterday -- manufacturers have been using them for decades.

I can understand the "want" from the old school crowd, but in todays' modern times, it just doesn't make much sense.

Also, the IRS in the old Cobra wasn't a thoroughly thought out piece -- it was bolt-on. The Fox platform was never designed to accept to an IRS. Ford just cludged together an IRS and fit it into the space that was available. It's hardly ideal, and it's no wonder it was a failure.


By Manch on 8/27/2012 5:45:43 PM , Rating: 2
your talking about a $90k vs $35k car here. for an extra $55k of course you can make it happen. Again, its not that it can't be done with an IRS, it's that it cant be done at that price and hold up to the abuse of drag racing.

About the new camaro, read section on IRS:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_11...


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 5:48:31 PM , Rating: 2
Dude I'm really not getting into an argument with you over this. But come on, how much does an M5 cost again? It also weighs WAY more than a Mustang and has a longer wheelbase by far.

The Mustang has high power and torque, but is relatively light. It also has a much shorter wheelbase than the cars you are bringing up, but is nose heavy. It's very obvious why they went with the solid rear axle if you think about it.

The Vheyron? That's an all wheel drive car though. And it's like 2 million dollars lol. I can't believe you even brought this car up lol, you must be trying to get me into an argument.

The Mustang has been a wildly successful product for decades now. When the Camaro with shi#tcanned, it kept on trucking. If it's somehow been hurt by it's choice of rear suspension, I can see no evidence of this being the case. The Mustang has a brand loyalty that most automakers could only dream of. Why fuk with the formula?


By Manch on 8/27/2012 5:54:31 PM , Rating: 2
it does have the largest aftermarket of any car ever.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 6:11:49 PM , Rating: 2
I will quote on old, wise philosopher by the the name of Recla'mur:

"BLA BLA BLA isn't the authority here. Ford's customers are, they are the ONLY one who's opinion matters here."

Ford's customers are likely telling them, get that s**t out of there and move into the 20th... err, 21st century ;)

Bottom line, Ford needs to cater to a larger customer base than what the fringe dragsters can provide. It is listening to its customers, and it has made the right decision.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 6:25:37 PM , Rating: 1
Why are you being a jerk to me about this? Trying to throw quotes back in my face, come on, what gives?

Well that's certainly not being reflected in the Mustang's sales. I guess it's possible Ford asked it's customers what rear end they would rather have, as if the majority of people even knew wtf the difference was, but I doubt it.

I think you're just twisting the situation to fit your world view that the higher tech solution is ALWAYS the best one for any application. However if you can provide evidence that the "customers" in large numbers are screaming for an IRS suspension in the Mustang, I would certainly be interested in seeing it.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 6:39:32 PM , Rating: 3
The vast majority of Mustang customers don't know and don't care. Ford said why it's making the change and it's cause they're trying to gain a larger audience for the Mustang. IE, people like me. I'll be honest and say the latest iteration of Mustang is highly desirable despite its rear end. The rest are junk as far as I'm concerned. I'd buy the Boss 302 period but the next Mustang is more like I want. I don't want a fat, sloppy Camaro and I'd like to buy American again. If Ford pussies out at the last minute and throws a log in the back to appease the 80 year olds, they'll lose my business permanently (that includes the truck...I'll sell that sh!t in a heartbeat). It's 2012, time to move on.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 7:11:52 PM , Rating: 2
The new GT 5.0 came within .02 seconds of the BMW M3 when MotorTrend tracked them. I mean, that's pretty damn impressive. I don't think anyone saw that coming at Motor Trend.

So people saying the Mustang's rear end is only for "drag racing", yeah, I dunno about that. It went head to head with an absolutely stunning sports car packed with an overload of high-tech equipment. For much less money.

I'm thinking if the GT did this well, a Boss 302 would smoke it. IRS or no.


By Spuke on 8/28/2012 1:35:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm thinking if the GT did this well, a Boss 302 would smoke it. IRS or no.
If you check out C&D's Lightning Lap, the Boss 302 Laguna Seca does indeed smoke the M3. It was only a tenth slower than a 911 GT3. From what a I read, the regular Boss 302 is only a few tenths behind the Laguna Seca on most tracks. Immensely impressive IMO. Log or not, the Boss 302 is high on my list (I'm almost settled on it but that WRX announcement has me interested too).


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 6:42:25 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not being a jerk. I'm simply stating that Ford is looking to expand its base with the next generation Mustang. They want to be able to keep the same performance (or make it greater), while at the same time increasing fuel efficiency.

They've also likely listened to the customer and asked them what they would like to see. Many probably said that they'd like to have a better riding vehicle. Moving to the IRS solves the ride comfort problem while also erasing the stigma of the SRA for other world markets.

Ever since the Camaro came back on the market, it's has beat the Mustang in sales. The first full year back, it was a sizable margin of victory, but the second full year back, it was a more decisive victory for the Camaro.

I bet you dollars to donuts that Ford is working every angle questioning the customer on what it can do to improve. They want that sales crown back. THAT is why I used your quote.

I think you guys are putting more weight to the fringe group that drag races these cars versus the people that actually buy them. Remember, V6 Mustangs outsell the V8 by far. Secretaries likely want a better riding car. And of those V8s, how many of them are hitting the drag strip with slicks? Probably the same percentage of people that still buy manual transmission vehicles in America (if not lower).

So if they listen to their customers, they'll do the right thing.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 6:53:24 PM , Rating: 2
Okay why the F do I get an error message when I try to post a reply with quotes in it?


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 6:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
I had the same problem. Webmaster has been alerted.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 7:03:09 PM , Rating: 2
Pandering to mediocrity has become a cultural paradigm. But I don't like it. I like it when people stand out. I like exceptionalism. I like it when things are a bit different. And thanks to CAFE and similar things, automobiles will slowly but surely become boring slow econoboxes that all look alike.

Basically you're saying making the Mustang more mediocre and generic makes good business sense. Sure, I can't argue with that I guess. But I'm not going to cheerlead it.

As far as the Camaro..well yeah, it's amazing what you can do when you're given $45 billion dollars. GM doesn't have budgetary concerns, but Ford does.

The majority of the public won't know the difference anyway Brandon. They aren't going to push the Mustang hard enough to notice it. For those that do, what's the big deal with having at least the option to buy the tried and true rear end?


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 7:15:23 PM , Rating: 2
An IRS is not mediocre by any means. Your fav car company has one BTW (mine too...Porsche). If Ford can afford to lose future customers (looks like they already are) then by all means go ahead with the solid axle and continue to alienate people that would like to buy a Mustang but don't want the log. IMO, the axle is just one thing. I think the retro styling is what's really killing sales at least here in the US. I just don't see the European market buying any American car but I don't have access to any research that Ford's been doing in this area. Maybe there's a surge in American muscle car sales in foreign markets. Who knows.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 7:23:06 PM , Rating: 1
Not saying the IRS is mediocre. I'm saying a slower, fatter, less fun Mustang will make it mediocre.

I don't get the argument that the rear end is somehow effecting sales and "alienating" people. Fun factor is a big selling point of the Mustang, and you have to admit, it's damn fun just the way it is.

And yes I agree about the world car angle. I don't see the Mustang being a big world car, regardless of front end.


By Spuke on 8/27/2012 8:39:35 PM , Rating: 3
This quote sh!t is getting on my nerves. There are many enthusiasts that won't buy a Mustang because of the rear end (I'm one of them). They go elsewhere. Those are sales Ford could go after by simply adding IRS. A slower fatter Mustang? Really? The original base price on a Solstice was $19k (for the non-turbo...same rear end on both cars...matter of fact everything is the same except engine and transmission). A car with an IRS capable of handling 600+hp (we don't even know how much because it's no where near breaking). Yep, the bone stock IRS on a Solstice can handle SERIOUS power. If you can put in a well designed IRS in a cheap car like mine, you can put on a much more expensive car like the Mustang. I'm almost positive the R&D on the Stang far exceeds my car. My car weighs 2900 lbs. The new Stang won't be slower or fatter (doubt it...Ford's on a roll plus even the new Camaro is going to be lighter). I predict 911 GT3 performance from the regular GT.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/28/2012 11:12:06 AM , Rating: 1
Oh Porsche is guilty of the same kind of thing too. They've stubbornly stuck to the rear-engined layout of their flagship 911 line after it's been proven long ago that mid-engined is superior. Even while their flagship car loses to other Porsches like the Cayman, which is mid-engined, in racing.

They've even go so far as to spend billions in R&D in the development of electronic stability systems and the like to try and curb the unstable nature of rear-engined chassis when a simple change to a mid-engined layout would have done the trick.

So it's not like Ford is the only one who sticks to something seen as "inferior" for whatever reason.


By Spuke on 8/28/2012 1:40:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Oh Porsche is guilty of the same kind of thing too.
Yeah, you got me there. I love the 911 as is but that car should be mid-engined. And castrating the Cayman is just plain silly IMO. I don't know, I'd probably be pissed if the 911 became mid-engined even though I know it would be a better car. :)


By Shane McGlaun (blog) on 8/28/2012 8:40:21 AM , Rating: 3
The new Mustang gets IRS because of the global platform it will use, not because it needs it to be competitive. In the immortal words of the great American, SpongeBob SquarePants, Don't be a jerk. lol


By EricMartello on 8/27/2012 9:32:35 PM , Rating: 2
Have you considered that if the cars you mentioned had a solid axle instead of independent rear, that their straight-line acceleration numbers would improve? They most likely would. Solid axles mitigate wheel hop and ensure that both wheels are maximizing their contact with the ground.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/28/2012 1:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Have you considered that if the cars you mentioned had a solid axle instead of independent rear, that their straight-line acceleration numbers would improve?
Who cares. They're already hella fast.


By EricMartello on 8/29/2012 1:39:05 AM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree but the question being raised is whether SLA > IRS for straight line acceleration; they'd be hella faster (straight line) if they had SLA instead of IRS. Many supra turbo owners swap out the stock IRS for SLA in order to improve their times at the drag strip.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 5:34:35 PM , Rating: 2
And thats why the pothole arguement is getting my blood boiling. If i wanted a nice, comnfortable ride, I'd get a luxury sedan. A muscle car is an engine with a seat!


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 5:54:06 PM , Rating: 2
lol yeah. I mean sports cars just don't have "comfortable" rides. And this whole pothole thing is just idiotic. I don't know any sports car that you can hit a pothole in, and not have your teeth clang together.

Ride quality isn't all about the suspension type anyway. That's more about the tires, shocks, strut, spring choices, bushings etc etc.


By Manch on 8/27/2012 6:02:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yup and when these clowns buy it because it now has IRS, and then they'll throw 20's on it with low pro's and wonder why the ride sucks. oh dear god...


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 5:28:54 PM , Rating: 2
It's not that you cant put down power with them. You can put down decent power with an IRS but it will break. If you run slicks on a brand new stock camaro, you're playing russian roulette with your checking account.

Where as a good ol 8.8 on the 05 up (31 spline) only needs a reinforce diff cover, weld the axle tubes and add c-clip eliminators and you have a rear end that can handle 9's easily. A little more and you can run it in the mid 6's. You can build an insanely durable rear end for cheap.

Also since the 8.8 is so plentiful, getting replacements are rediculously cheap. Break an IRS, and you will cry when you see the cost.

Another reason why ford is the only one left is because no one can do the solid rear better than they can. A lot of chevy guys will put a ford 8.8 in there cars to replace the crap there cars come with. The 3 link which is in the curent cars offer the best articulation(handling) of the different variations on it.

So it's price, just a different category. Do a search of 04 cobra IRS upgrades and you will see in some of the forums the insane cost of building one up along with the usual "eff that, put a solid in your car"

hope i answered your question


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Andrwken on 8/27/2012 6:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
As a child of a lifelong NHRA drag racer, I was always told the IRS doesn't deliver the axle twist that a SRA does. It delivers more power to the point for drag racing where the first 60 feet matter most. An IRS can handle the power, you just won't get if off the line with your nose in the air.

Dana 60's worked just fine in the 6-800 hp category as well. Ford 9's are just where anyone with a budget starts, not that they are somehow modern engineering marvels in mustangs, that would be budget accountants keeping that axle in that car. IRS will work for all the streeters out there and piss off the loud minority that want it for the straight track.

Personally I would be clamoring for a easy changeout kit cuz the solid rear axle appears to be a dinosaur here.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 6:42:56 PM , Rating: 2
Youtube eludes the elderly apparently. Dude, there are videos of Lambo's leaving the line nose in the air. No log installed.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Andrwken on 8/27/2012 6:45:54 PM , Rating: 2
We are speaking about somewhat of a budget here.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Andrwken on 8/27/2012 6:51:43 PM , Rating: 2
Keep watching youtube though, then maybe add to your bucket list to get out of the house and actually go to a track. Then try and go see a top fuel dragster up close. Nothing like 8000 hp warming up the tires 50 feet away at Indianapolis, where the stands are right by the launch. I recommend leaving your ears uncovered only once, but just to hear loud go to completely silent as your ears are overloaded by the noise and exhaust feels like its pushing you backwards.

Youtube,,,,, sheesh


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 7:22:41 PM , Rating: 2
Nice! I knew you were going to say that. Confirms your age (old people think the internet isn't real). Uncle used to take me to the drag strip when I was younger. I also have belonged to a few car clubs and I occasionally take my car out. Quite familiar with that experience and it is indeed awesome.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Andrwken on 8/27/2012 7:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
35 and well versed in the internet. Youtube is no place to watch cars race, but if that's your thing, I'll refrain from diaper jokes ;) The big NHRA events are really where it's at. Not much to watch on tv but quite a party for a few days and lots to see!


By Spuke on 8/27/2012 8:44:02 PM , Rating: 2
35 and you can't read either. :) I'm 43 BTW. Been to many a race, even F1. I thought I made that quite clear. Fun as all get out. Youtube is awesome (sorry) cause I can see whatever I want in my own spare time plus things I never knew existed like street driven, 1500+ hp cars doing 250 mph in the mile (ok, there's one car that does that).


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 4:15:50 PM , Rating: 1
Now you're being ignorant. What 8 sec car doesn't hit the drag strip? Dude this is 2012, there are quite a few streetable (and trailer queens) 8 sec cars out there nowadays pounding the crap out of their rear suspensions with no ill effects. Shit there's a Nissan GTR or three running in the 8's. Assorted Lambo's running in the 8's. No live axle or GM auto swaps like 15 years ago. Someone's got it figured out, just takes doing not being lazy old men about it. In Ford's defense, they've perfected the SRA to the point where I wouldn't have an issue at all owning a Mustang (not to mention the Boss 302 is fast on a road course too...911 GT3 anyone?). I AM in the market for a 2012 Boss 302 so I'm not hater. I just live in reality. Anything can be done with enough time, money, and knowhow. Absolutes for dumbass's.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Manch on 8/27/2012 5:12:31 PM , Rating: 2
No, you're missing the point and being dickish. All he was saying that an IRS for a car like that makes too many sacrifices compared to a solid axle for drag racing.

I realize the 8 sec car is for a drag strip. Your comparo of an 8 sec car isnt a fair comparison is what I'm saying. A GTR, Lambos are expensive! Of course there IRS can handle that kind of abuse! Those aren't 35k cars. Big difference! Hell, Id be pissed if I bought a car like that and I had to worry bout trashing the rear.

For the price you pay for a mustang, the IRS that comes with it will not hold up, and when you break one, it's painfully expensive to rebuild/replace. Upgrades for IRS's have come down in price but they cannot beat the price/durability of a SRA.

For a ford 8.8/31 in the 05 ups,all you need to do to safely drop down below ten 10's is a reinforced diff cover, weld the axle tubes, and c-clip eliminators. It doesnt take much more and you can safely run that 8.8 rear end in the mid 6's car! A lot cheaper than what it would take to get an IRS to do the same, and that's the main reason why drag racer by large avoid an IRS. Not because they can't be used on a fast car but because they are so damn expensive to make them hold up.

Perfect example here is you could easily spend $4k on an IRS for an 04 cobra,vs spending $1k on 8.8 swap with a reinforced diff & c-clip eliminators and I guarantee you the IRS will break first.

You may live in reality but where you're arguing from sure as fuq aint.



By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 5:23:46 PM , Rating: 1
I feel the majority of these posts don't reflect the true nature of engineering. You don't ALWAYS go with the more advanced higher-tech solution to every problem in engineering. You go with what WORKS. This is a Mustang, not the NCC 1701-D.

All I'm seeing are a bunch of people going "Zomg IRS is better because..well..it just IS!!!". Arguing suspension technologies in a bubble. Not really taking into account the vehicle the suspension is in and all the factors Ford's engineers had to balance. Not in the least being cost.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 6:30:09 PM , Rating: 2
No, you're missing the point and being an asshole. All I am saying is that the Mustang is not some special car that can't have tons of power AND an IRS. This all been there, done that stuff. Seriously. Every other car on the planet has an IRS from 80 hp to 1200 hp. It has ALREADY been done! Get over the Mustang losing its solid axle. I brought up the other cars as EXAMPLES of what can be done. EVERY OTHER CAR IN THE MUSTANGS CLASS HAS IRS AND SIMILAR HP AND HAS NO PROBLEMS PUTTING DOWN THAT POWER RELIABILITY. This is old news, the argument is tired and there's no logic to it whatsoever. I'm glad Ford is ignoring and moving on.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 6:39:17 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah but Spuke it's not helping your argument that the two examples you listed were all wheel drive cars. Where power is transferred to all the wheels, and the rear end isn't doing all the work.

And I'm not really a fan of the "everyone is doing it" thing. What's wrong with being unique and standing out? What is this, Europe? :P


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 6:50:16 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't even notice that. Thanks. You'll have to see Porsche for RWD, high hp cars then. Even the Ford GT (the newer one) can put down 1000+ pretty well I might add. People are rather peculiar in which cars they choose for high hp duty. But, dude, I spent a lot time in the tuner scene and there are plenty of cars that just get it done without the high dollar nameplates. Nowadays, it's just ridiculous how much power a well done car can put down repeatedly without a solid axle. Those old arguments just don't hold any weight anymore. BTW, typically AWD cars diffs are lighter duty than a RWD car with the same power because the power is split. You're not getting two RWD diffs in an AWD car.


By Spuke on 8/27/2012 6:59:22 PM , Rating: 1
Unique is certainly cool but not for the sake of being unique. I just disagree. I really think for Ford to keep the Mustang going, it's got to get an IRS AND lose the retro styling (as much as I love it..eventually it will get old). I'd really like a 5L V8 powered, American Porsche fighter. I'd be more in an uproar if they wanted to get rid of the V8 or make it mid-engined or something.


By Manch on 8/28/2012 4:28:21 AM , Rating: 1
For fucks sake, I have never once said that you cannot put down power with an IRS! It's just cheaper and more reliable with a solid fucking axle if you're drag racing! Unless you have some serious coin to throw at it, it will break. I've even said, that I hope they at least provide a SRA option for those of us that want it. If they don't, the aftermarket will respond with an option.

Go look at my other post with the hotrod magazine link about what breaks on the Camaro. It's the IRS. You cannot do any serious upgrades without upgrading the IRS because it will break!

Stop being a dick and actually read what people post, and try to grasp context you fucking prick.


By JediJeb on 8/27/2012 6:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
"a Nissan GTR or three running in the 8's. Assorted Lambo's running in the 8's."

Can you buy either of these cars for the price of a Mustang GT?


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 10:37:45 AM , Rating: 2
And not too shabby that the Camaro ZL1 with an 80+hp deficit was only off a few tenths and more consistent.

The solid rear does make getting of the line (drag) much easier in the Mustang.

Not a fan of either cars though.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 10:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
It'll get even more interesting with the next gen Camaro. It's supposed to be moving to the lighter, smaller Alpha platform that underpins the superb Cadillac ATS and will be a few hundred pounds lighter.

Yummmmmmm...


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 11:11:04 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah that's the Camaro's biggest issue. It's a frickin pig. Not Challenger/Charger pig, but close.

Shave a few hundred pounds off and the Camaro/Mustang would be in a dead heat. Now you'd only have to pick which one was less ugly.

Here's hoping they don't screw up the 2014 Corvette with too much retro, the car that I'm waiting for.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 11:17:50 AM , Rating: 2
Here's a video rendering of the C7 based on leaked images of the front/rear bumpers and inside information obtained by Jalopnik:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfFyZ3aaiQg&feature...


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 11:31:13 AM , Rating: 2
I saw that one.
I'll reserve final judgement until an actual release. While the front bumper is 99% certain due to the suppliers retracted release, the back is just conjecture right now. Sides and everything else is also up in the air.

And of course we're still missing some of the most important info. What's the power train like? Engine, transmission, curb weight, etc. They've been pretty tight lipped on what's going on.


By darkhawk1980 on 8/27/2012 12:41:08 PM , Rating: 1
Christ, just when I thought the Corvette couldn't get any uglier, they get Audi and Ferrari to design the new one?

Seriously though, front end reminds me of a Audi R8, back-end looks like the shitty Camaro butt, and overall from the side it looks like a Ferrari.

The crack GM has been smoking lately really is making it's rounds......assuming this rendering turns out being pretty close.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 2:11:38 PM , Rating: 2
The Corvettes styling is iconic. Ugly? Well I guess that's your opinion, but to call the Corvette "ugly" just reeks of unfair bias.

The Aztec was UGLY. Corvette, not so much.


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 2:28:29 PM , Rating: 2
OMG.

8/27/2012. Mark it down folks.

Reclaimer said something about a GM product that didn't involve politics.

Just having a little fun. :)


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 2:42:55 PM , Rating: 2
LMFAO! You just took the words right out of my mouth. Perhaps Reclaimer is getting some regular "action" these days which is smoothing out his "rough" edges ;)


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 2:56:34 PM , Rating: 2
You guys are hilarious.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 3:00:23 PM , Rating: 2
You want to know what's really hilarious?

http://i48.tinypic.com/b7yuq1.jpg

;)


By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 3:05:23 PM , Rating: 2
Good parts car! The front end looks intact :)


By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:01:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, the rear end of both of those cars are ugly, like I've had 12 beers, and that b!tch is still ugly, ugly. I absolutley hate the rear of both those cars. Cervini's makes a new rear to fix that issue tho for the mustang.


By Manch on 8/27/2012 11:59:03 AM , Rating: 2
Good, because weight's a problem with them. Not as bad as the portly dodges tho.


RE: SRA finally going away, but it WILL cost you
By Jeffk464 on 8/27/2012 8:28:02 PM , Rating: 2
For the 4 cyl turbo to be any fun they are going to have to reduce the weight from the current mustang by a lot, probably in line with the new subaru BRZ.


By Jeffk464 on 8/27/2012 8:36:06 PM , Rating: 2
PS my dad had the 4cyl turbo SVO mentioned in the article and it was an absolute blast, so I'm not saying it cant be done.


That pic is not a Mustang
By Beenthere on 8/27/12, Rating: 0
RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 9:44:48 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
That pic is not a Mustang


Which is why it says Ford Evos concept ;)


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Gio6518 on 8/27/2012 9:54:23 AM , Rating: 3
If it looks like this put me on the waiting list (with a 500hp V8)

http://driving-dutchman.com/wp-content/gallery/201...

if it looks like this not too sure

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vg2g1hjjiH0/Tm7XnWY6YSI/...


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:05:42 PM , Rating: 3
nope, and nope. The first one looks like it belongs on Cybertron, so unless the damn thing and turn into a robot and stomp on a camaro it has no reason to look like that. The second one looks like a VW golf smashed into the back of it. I would have doubts about a car that twinkles that much too...


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 3:39:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm not not diggin those either.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By retrospooty on 8/27/2012 10:47:33 AM , Rating: 2
"Which is why it says Ford Evos concept ;)"

Brilliant!

details details details. Its all about the details. ;)


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Iaiken on 8/27/2012 10:24:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
with the exception of the Drag Pak models which benefit from the solid rear axle.


Not really, you can have the best of both worlds with an electronic locking differential.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Samus on 8/27/2012 10:39:09 AM , Rating: 2
Anybody who has been to a drag strip knows cars with IRS are always inferior to those with a solid axle. Weight, wheel hop, and reliability plague the IRS Cobra on the strip and I don't think any other IRS-equiped Mustang will be any different.

The solid live axle gets a lot of crap, especially from Top Gear, which too many people take information from as 'legitimate' but owning many Mustangs (and a Fox-based Mercury Capri) in my lifetime I can attest to the flexibility of a solid live axle. It's ride quality, handling and weather traction can all be very fine-tuned with simple suspension upgrades. Most people who own Mustang's drive them year-round without much trouble.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By theapparition on 8/27/2012 10:43:55 AM , Rating: 2
At least tell the whole story.

The problems with IRS on drag cars can also be mitigated with suspension tweaks as well. As someone who runs 8s in an IRS car that 100% street legal (ok, maybe 99% :P), it can be done.

Suspension tweaks on a live axle car only go so far. There's a lot that can be done, but in the end if you hit a bump while turning, there's nothing in the world that can help the dynamics of the solid rear.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/27/2012 10:46:04 AM , Rating: 2
IIRC, the Mustang is probably the last modern 2-door sports car with a SRA. So what exactly is the Mustang supposed to be competing with drag-wise... itself? Everything else is running an IRS -- Camaro, Challenger, Charger, Corvette, Viper, Genesis Coupe, M3... well, just about EVERYTHING ELSE out there ;)

IRS doesn't appear to be hurting the Camaro, and it's been outselling the Mustang ever since it was brought back to the lineup.

Ford is looking to take the next Mustang global, and an IRS is the only way to have any sort of credibility.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Stuka on 8/27/2012 11:17:22 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, there is no mainstream production RWD car with a solid axle other than the Mustang. There is no excuse anymore. The drag racing excuse is tired. It's a street car first and foremost. Their best possible play would be to make the car IRS off the line and offer a solid axle conversion at the parts counter. Or, offer the blueprints for said conversion to the aftermarket for free.

One of the reasons I sold my '06 Stang was because of the axle. I could feel the back end slosh around as it followed the panhard arc. I did not care for that on 70mph freeway interchange ramps.

They also need to trim the fat. These cars are getting dangerously close to pre-70 land yacht weight. Unfortunately, IRS will not help this, but I'll gladly except that trade.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be OK if they offered a solid rear option.

As far as sloshing around, better bushings, and and adj panhard will solve the problem for 99% of the people out there. A lot of people lower there cars and dont realize the need to replace that part as well as several others. If you dont it really messes with your handling.

Biggest problem with trimmng the fat is all the extra safety crap. It's the #1 cause of car bloat. The next gen mustang is supposed to be smaller.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 3:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd be OK if they offered a solid rear option.
Why would they do that when you make this an 8 sec car at very least with an IRS? Seriously, why do you guys ignore the multitude of other fast cars out there? It's not like the Mustang is the drag strip king either. Get over it! Sheesh.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Manch on 8/28/2012 5:16:21 AM , Rating: 1
Because it's cheaper to build up a SRA and the ford 8.8 will run mid 6's with very little modification. Can't do that with an IRS. What is wrong with just having the option for those that want it? IRS fans will have theirs so they can sip there fucking latte on there morning commute, and I can get a newer mustang with what I want.

Why do you ignore the PRICE!!We're talking about a $35k car here. If money wasn't an object, id buy an SSC tuatara and be done.

The mustang is popular for drag racers because it's a solid platform to build off of. The performance you get for the price is awesome, and the potential of the platform is as well. It's affordable for us working stiffs to mess with and upgrade. IRS is expensive to upgrade and uneeded on a drag strip, and performs worse. On a road course, obviously the IRS is the way to go, but not on a drag strip. That's why we love our SRA so much. It's cheap, durable, easy to upgrade, and inexpensive to replace.

I understand they are going IRS on the next gen. What's wrong with asking for the option? Hell Ford would make money and not alienate a core group of buyers!

As far as the mustang being King of the drag strip? Everyone has there opinion on the that, but no car has a larger aftermarket than the Ford Mustang. None. There's a reason for that.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
The IRS in those cobras were also a shoddy bolt in. Most cobra owners I know swap that crap out for a solid rear/watts link.


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By chrnochime on 8/27/2012 2:38:56 PM , Rating: 2
Or actually do some research and remedy the subframe problems by replacing the bushings and make the thing how it's supposed to be. But I guess that takes too much work so lol


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Manch on 8/27/2012 2:43:40 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, you can reinforce it, but once you break that damn thing, most will say eff it and switch. If your road coursing, by all means keep it. Drag racing? get it gone!


RE: That pic is not a Mustang
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 3:44:08 PM , Rating: 2
I'd keep it and make it work versus the lazy, 70 year olds way of doing it.


Going the wrong way
By dgingerich on 8/27/2012 11:28:59 AM , Rating: 2
I've now had 13 GM cars and one Ford. This is just no appealing to me. All the US car makers are going the wrong way, and lagging behind badly in areas they're doing right. (Of course, many will say this isn't anything new, and it isn't. It's just getting too bad for me to look past anymore.) They keep making them bigger and bigger, with engines that lack the torque for off the line acceleration, and bad cornering. I think my next car, which is coming up soon after 7 years with my Monte Carlo, will be an import. I'm thinking either the Subaru Imprezza WRX or a BMW 3 series. Both a smaller than my Monte Carlo, corner better, have more torque and power, and better gas mileage.




RE: Going the wrong way
By theapparition on 8/27/2012 11:38:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They keep making them bigger and bigger, with engines that lack the torque for off the line acceleration, and bad cornering.

So you're complaining that domestic cars don't have low end torque and handle bad.

Now an article comes out saying they're going to go with a turbocharged ecoboost (which is known for low end torque) and an IRS (which will improve handling) and your comment is they are going in the wrong direction. Color me confused.


RE: Going the wrong way
By Manch on 8/27/2012 12:51:55 PM , Rating: 2
He's basing this off of 7 years with a Monte Carlo....which if I had to drive one would make me want to go with another brand too.

I think they are going in the wrong direction too. But I think it's because they're not playing on there strentghs and they're trying to become also rans with the slate of euro/import cars. The way they're going they will be cookie cutter cars with no distinct styling. They'll all look like euro knock offs, like the imports do now.


RE: Going the wrong way
By Reclaimer77 on 8/27/2012 1:59:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm thinking either the Subaru Imprezza WRX


WINNING!


RE: Going the wrong way
By Spuke on 8/27/2012 4:03:47 PM , Rating: 2
WRX gets its own platform!!!! I like the sound of that personally and will be keeping an eye out on the new WRX and STi. 400+ hp (that's my requirement) just might get me in the Subaru camp.


I'm not sure that this looks like a Mustang
By Flunk on 8/27/2012 8:55:31 AM , Rating: 2
This doesn't really look like a Mustang, but I like it. Independant rear suspention and turbocharged options to compete with the Hyundai Genesis Coupe? Yes. Independant rear suspension to deal with the Camaro? Yes. If It's a little lower and lighter than the current model I would genuinely consider getting one for my next vehicle.

P.S. I know some people like the retro styling, but I prefer modern looking cars. Sorry old guys.




RE: I'm not sure that this looks like a Mustang
By BSMonitor on 8/27/2012 9:38:28 AM , Rating: 2
Gotta keep mixing it up. If not, these enthusiast cars decline and disappear.. aka Camaro.

Maybe 30 years from now, get back to the retro muscle car look.


By theapparition on 8/27/2012 10:47:07 AM , Rating: 2
The answer is already in the article. Camaro is outselling the Mustang by a large margin.

Even though the Mustang is a slightly better car, the Camaro has the sales which at the end of the day mean everything. Ford has to shake things up to get competitive again.


V8
By Gio6518 on 8/27/2012 9:51:52 AM , Rating: 3
There is a name for a 4cyl Mustang............ Pinto




RE: V8
By wallijonn on 8/27/2012 1:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
No, that would be the Mustang II.


Finally!
By RandomUsername3245 on 8/27/2012 10:12:49 AM , Rating: 1
Good riddance to retro styling!! Stop looking backward and try to build something for the future. I just hope that we never see retro cars taking cues from 70s and 80s designs.




RE: Finally!
By Dr of crap on 8/27/2012 12:14:50 PM , Rating: 3
You are either,
not old enough to enjoy the styling of the old Cameros or Mustangs,
or just don't understand these cars and the stylings that go along with them.


SRA? IRS? No one will notice
By tayb on 8/27/2012 1:49:48 PM , Rating: 2
I think people are grossly overestimating the average Mustang buyer. Do you honestly think the average buyer is racing or drag racing or would ever know if the rear axle was solid? Doubtful. It's just marketing, really, because Chevy has been telling everyone how much better the IRS on the Camaro is than the SRA on the Mustang. It's just a box to check next to the "idiots guide to buying a muscle car."




RE: SRA? IRS? No one will notice
By chrnochime on 8/27/2012 2:42:21 PM , Rating: 2
They WILL notice it sucks on broken pavement/roads riddled with potholes if it's got the SRA.

The average consumer who buys these want a decent powered/handling/riding sporty car. The IRS simply takes care of crappy roads better than the SRA. The new mustang cannot come soon enough.


1999 & 2001-04 Mustang Cobra had IRS
By SLMonk on 8/27/2012 9:32:54 PM , Rating: 2
Worried about the styling...
By Wolfpup on 8/28/2012 9:37:08 AM , Rating: 2
Okay, we're on the 5th gen Mustang, right? I *LOVE* the styling. Everyone I know loves the styling. I've wanted one for years, and if I win the lottery, I'm buying one. It's freaking awesome, and it's actually supposed to be a good car too.

4th gen just looked cheap-seemed like a compact car that was trying to look sporty. 3rd gen was absurd. IMO it hasn't ever looked as good as the 5th gen, and hasn't looked good since the first and second gen ones...sooooo not sure about that.

Under the hood changes will hopefully be just fine, just so long as it's at least average or better reliability like it is now.




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