backtop


Print 46 comment(s) - last by Buy-NTEK.. on Dec 27 at 12:39 PM

Netflix says new compression format will improve picture for HD viewers too

Netflix has attributed some of its impressive growth to its successful and critically acclaimed original show House of Cards. Netflix will now use the second season of the show as a vehicle for its efforts to provide customers with 4k resolution content.
 
Netflix says that the 4K programming will be offered through smart TV apps on next generation 4k TVs. Netflix's Chief Product Officer Neil Hunt said in an interview with Stuff, "We're not naming specific manufacturers, but we have several of the major TV vendors who are going to be producing 4K capable TVs – they'll be announcing them at CES."
 
As for the possibility of 4K streaming content coming to next generation consoles like the Xbox One and PlayStation 4, don’t hold your breath.
 
Hunt added, "The new game consoles may eventually be 4K-capable. But the ability to take 4K out of the box and drop it into a separate television is lacking some standards and HDMI 2.0, and it's just a little premature. So we probably will see that, but right now we're talking about 4K Netflix built into the smart TV."

 
While some of us have a hard time streaming full HD resolution broadcasts thanks to slow broadband speeds around much of the U.S., Netflix is leaning on technology to allow owners of 4K TVs to stream the higher resolution format.
 
"We're pushing forward with new encoding technology – we'll be using H.265, which is colloquially known as HEVC, instead of AVC H.264," Hunt explains. "We think with that we're going to be delivering in the 10-16Mbps range – about 15Mbps is probably what we should think of."
 
The new compression format will allow a higher resolution picture without needing a major step up in bitrate. Hunt promises that people that don’t have 4K TVs will also see a benefit, noting, “We're pioneering HEVC, which is about twice as efficient as AVC. And so, when we start to see those HEVC decoders get real, and the encoders get more efficient, we're going to be able to recode all the HD content – and the standard-def content, for that matter – in HEVC. So people with a 2 Mbps DSL will be able to receive a better picture than they do today."

Sources: Stuff, Stuff



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Hurry Up Already
By Mitch101 on 12/19/2013 12:23:40 PM , Rating: 2
Waiting for H.265 has been whats preventing me from upgrading any of my equipment. Once its built into the chips in tablets, phones, Media Streamers, and GPU or CPU's they cant take my money fast enough.

Im not sure the X-Box One or PS4 have enough power to do H.265 especially at 4k maybe 1080p. Video decoding is just one of those things that should be done through hardware to keep high CPU/GPU down and thus less heat and reduced fan noise with little to no possibility of stuttering.

It should also allow for a lot more 1080p content to be stored on whatever media you choose. But then do we start the game all over again with another copy of Star Wars in 4k? Im in if Han Shoots first.




RE: Hurry Up Already
By inighthawki on 12/19/2013 2:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Im not sure the X-Box One or PS4 have enough power to do H.265 especially at 4k maybe 1080p. Video decoding is just one of those things that should be done through hardware to keep high CPU/GPU down and thus less heat and reduced fan noise with little to no possibility of stuttering.

I'd be utterly shocked if they couldn't, especially the PS4. I'm pretty sure even low end intel integrated can do 4K now, possibly even high end ARM devices.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By Guspaz on 12/19/2013 2:23:05 PM , Rating: 2
4K isn't the problem, there's near-zero hardware decoding support for HEVC. Heck, there's barely any software support for decoding it either. Pretty much anything claiming 4K hardware decode today is talking about 4K h.264.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By Mitch101 on 12/19/2013 4:26:39 PM , Rating: 1
Im with you the XBox One and PS4 Might be able to do 4k Video using H.264 but neither has enough CPU to do 4k Video in H.265 since h.265 is not baked into the GPU/CPU. The only software decoder I know of specifies an i7 and well neither console is near that. What this means if its a streamed source you will need a higher speed internet connection for 4k video and if its a file the file will be a good 50% larger.

What Might be possible is a software h.265 decoder that can do 1080P on the XBONE/PS4. The benefit there is netflix can stream a 1080P video that uses nearly half the internet bandwidth it takes to stream current 1080p so if you have a slower internet connection that handle h.264 in 1080p you might be able to do 1080p using h.265 and software decoder.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By CZroe on 12/20/2013 2:32:54 AM , Rating: 3
It wasn't publicized, but the earliest Sony Blu-Ray players essentially had Pentium 4 CPUs inside for software decode even though PCs with the latest Pentium 4 couldn't dream of doing it in software (too many resources shared with the rest of the legacy OS and applications).

Let's not forget that the GPUs can also be employed in the software decoding.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By therealnickdanger on 12/20/2013 8:20:47 AM , Rating: 3
Baytrail Atom can do 1080p H.265 in software at 35% load. You guys are overhyping the hardware requirements. Atom probably can't do 4K H.265 (I can't find evidence that it can or can't), but I'll bet an i3-i7 can... probably even a Core 2 Quad.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/optimizin...


RE: Hurry Up Already
By bug77 on 12/20/2013 8:41:34 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, but I have a feeling h265 won't take off until appliances can decode it and appliances don't have Core2/Quad inside. Not that it matters much, it will catch on when it will catch on. And it won't improve either Casablanca or Star Wars ep. 1-3.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By Reclaimer77 on 12/20/2013 9:46:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Baytrail Atom can do 1080p H.265 in software at 35% load. You guys are overhyping the hardware requirements.


That's what I was thinking. But I didn't want to open my mouth and be wrong and reap the DT whirlwind lol.

But don't these consoles just software decode via the GPU anyway? I thought specialized decoding hardware was mostly used in under-powered mobile devices.

I don't see why the PS4 couldn't decode H.265 with a simple software patch. I've seen a pure-software decoder smoothly playing HEVC 1080p@30fps on a smartphone! Surely these consoles could handle it at 4k.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By Mitch101 on 12/20/2013 10:45:26 AM , Rating: 2
Nice find didn't know that. Makes we wonder if chips like the 4771 and AMD chips coming in Q1 2014 will have it.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By jihadjoe on 12/20/2013 5:51:52 PM , Rating: 1
DivX released some HEVC decoding performance figures last month.

4-core, 8-thread i7 @ 3.5GHz does 101.5FPS at 1080P, but that drops down drastically to 29.6FPS at 4k

http://labs.divx.com/node/127935

Based on their results i3 to i5 probably can't decode 4k H265.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By yottabit on 12/21/2013 2:54:04 PM , Rating: 1
Sounds about right. Have to LOL @ 4k being soft decoded on an Atom.

I remember watching a 4k video on YouTube a while back and it pegged all 8 threads of a first gen i7 (ran fairly smoothly though)

It all depends on bitrate... my old C2D laptop can soft-decode 1080p low bitrate fine, but if I through it a 24 Mbps video it chugs. High bitrate 4k is going to be a challenge to decode with software.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By soccerballtux on 12/21/2013 4:18:50 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 would probably be able to do it no problem.
The Cell processor (remember, "Broadband Engine"?) was, IMHO, designed to be put into all the Blu Ray players and Sony TV's, not just the PS3s. Why? For the high definition high bandwidth media decoding.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By soccerballtux on 12/21/2013 4:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
*those SPE's are simply fantastic for performing straight math on vectors, such as what you would do on an Mpeg4 stream...


RE: Hurry Up Already
By bug77 on 12/19/2013 5:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Once its built into the chips in tablets, phones, Media Streamers, and GPU or CPU's they cant take my money fast enough.


You do realize that by the time that happens, H.266 will be all the rage.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By soccerballtux on 12/21/2013 4:17:09 PM , Rating: 2
likely the law of diminishing returns will kick in.

I thought AVC was fantastic and halving the bitrate for same quality in 265 is incredible. That level of improvement probably won't happen again.


RE: Hurry Up Already
By Buy-NTEK on 12/27/2013 12:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like nobody is familiar with the family of Nuvola 4K UHD Streaming Media Players which will stream 4K content at 6 Mbps or more, yet. Nanotech Entertainment is offering 4K Streaming Media Players with their consumer version "Nuvola NP-1" debuting at CES 2014 in Las Vegas - January 7-10th and will be available for $299.00

See nuvola4k.com for additional information and to learn about their promise to automatically upgrade the H.264 to H.265. Their product is also a "Finalist for Visionary Products Award" by StorageVisions(.)com


Exciting!
By Captain Awesome on 12/19/2013 11:50:33 AM , Rating: 1
This is exciting, can't wait until 4k projectors come down in price. $5000 to $15,000 is a little expensive... unless it also comes with 10,000 hours of 4k content from Captain Stabbin and Bang Bus.




RE: Exciting!
By Mitch101 on 12/19/2013 12:40:27 PM , Rating: 2
I would love me a 4k projector however with very little 4k content it would be overpaying for something you could barely use today. But thats a Captain Obvious comment. I do look forward to it going mainstream as I would love to take my 110" screen up to 140"+ inches. Anything larger might be too much for my viewing distance. 1080P at 110" is probably a touch too much for my current view distance I need the higher resolution before going bigger.

Its similar to a conversation I had recently on upgrading a router to the latest 802.11ac when all my wireless devices are at 802.11n. Until wireless devices start using or needing 802.11ac I would be wasting money on the router with no real return. Internet is still slower than 802.11n.

I also really hate there is not more or quality 3D content on. Its all still one off stuff. I dont care about X-Games or High School Football but when its in 3D I'll watch it but am craving better content not just tours of China.


RE: Exciting!
By wolrah on 12/20/2013 12:46:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
unless it also comes with 10,000 hours of 4k content from Captain Stabbin and Bang Bus.


Really? You've seen HD porn and your thought is that you want more detail? The switch to 1080p "gained" us the ability to see each and every boob-job or c-section scar the second the clothes start coming off. You can practically count the hairs they missed while shaving. I know it's porn, but that much is really where it is better left to the imagination.

Yes there are always a couple of examples where everything was perfect, a Hollywood-grade porn, but they're few and far between.

I think porn peaked with DVD.........A (sorry, had to). Enough quality to look decent fullscreen, but not more than you wanted.

And now I've just posted a thought-out position on porn quality. Probably not the worst thing I've posted, but I'm glad I never plan to run for office.


RE: Exciting!
By Reclaimer77 on 12/20/2013 1:08:01 AM , Rating: 1
You need to watch better porn man. If it's not Brazzers HD, it's crap :P


RE: Exciting!
By superstition on 12/20/2013 7:52:52 AM , Rating: 2
shudder


RE: Exciting!
By Mitch101 on 12/20/2013 10:44:06 AM , Rating: 2
You and I agree and that's kind of creepy we both might be watching the same thing and stroking it. Oh yea I went there.

He needs to watch the euro stuff more. I have nothing against fake boobs (Tonka toys aren't real but a heck of a lot of fun) but they are generally overdone here.

Stunners, Brazzers, Wow Girls, X-Art etc and Ill throw in Twisty's.


RE: Exciting!
By Reclaimer77 on 12/20/2013 11:01:10 AM , Rating: 2
LMAO! Wow, you DID go there! hahaha :)

quote:
He needs to watch the euro stuff more.


Mmmmm Fake Taxi :P


RE: Exciting!
By Mitch101 on 12/20/2013 11:57:10 AM , Rating: 2
LOL or Sell Your GF?


Built in to TV's. Who cares
By Gunbuster on 12/19/2013 1:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
How about they just flip the switch now and make it work for people with computers and 4K displays. It's not that hard Netflix...




RE: Built in to TV's. Who cares
By lamerz4391 on 12/19/2013 3:32:57 PM , Rating: 2
Uh yeah, it's not that easy there chief. Does your hardware support h.265 decode at all, much less at 4K? Probably not.


RE: Built in to TV's. Who cares
By flyingpants1 on 12/20/2013 12:01:11 AM , Rating: 4
Yeah man... Why don't they just "flip the switch" and "make it work"?


By puter_geek_01 on 12/23/2013 4:16:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why don't they just "flip the switch" and "make it work"?


Holy Crap! Quantum Computing solved.


RE: Built in to TV's. Who cares
By pandemonium on 12/20/2013 6:00:03 AM , Rating: 2
Because Netflix uses Silverlight and Silverlight does not support software support for H.265 yet.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc189080(v...


15Mbps my foot
By CaedenV on 12/19/2013 3:17:00 PM , Rating: 2
I have a 20Mbps connection at home and still cannot manage to get a nice solid 1080p stream from most sources, while some of my friends have no trouble with it on a 10Mbps connection. Its all in where you live and who your ISP is today, the numbers of your max up and download are just one little bit of the story.




RE: 15Mbps my foot
By Captain Awesome on 12/20/2013 9:24:33 AM , Rating: 3
Your ISP is probably throttling you. When I was with Rogers I had trouble streaming 1080p videos from YouTube, after switching to TekSavvy I can watch them no problem.

Both ISPs were promising similar speeds, through a cable modem over the same wires.


RE: 15Mbps my foot
By edge929 on 12/20/2013 4:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
I also have a 20Mbps downstream and I regularly see ~2.2MB per second which is right what I expect. You can get a network widget for Windows 7 to watch realtime traffic or just go to speedtest.net.


RE: 15Mbps my foot
By sgestwicki on 12/21/2013 12:16:03 PM , Rating: 2
I had the same problem with Verizon FIOS. 15 Mbps should be fast enough to watch the content but they wouldn't always give me that speed. I have called them repeatedly and and it always seem to magically start working again for whenever I complained despite them saying that nothing was wrong. I finally "fixed" the problem by going into the Netflix options and selecting Medium under "Playback settings".


4k... so?
By Souka on 12/19/2013 3:23:24 PM , Rating: 2

So how much bandwidth does a 60min show take at full HD vs full 4k HD? (let's keep same show, same provider)

Also... this is just resolutoin. 4k doesn't mean better color depth, better compression.
It's like a digital camera. 5Mp vs 8Mp doesn't mean the 8Mp will take better pictures, it just has more pixels.

Isn't the same true with 1080p vs 4k? The compression codec used, the TV displaying the content has far more effect on picture quality.

And how many people have 4k displays? or will have in next 1-2 years?

Just my $.02




RE: 4k... so?
By lamerz4391 on 12/19/2013 3:35:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
TextAlso... this is just resolutoin. 4k doesn't mean better color depth, better compression.
It's like a digital camera. 5Mp vs 8Mp doesn't mean the 8Mp will take better pictures, it just has more pixels.


Did you read the article? It's NOT just resolution at all. It's going to 4K with h.265 for encoding and decoding. Thus offering better compression and quality at lower bitrates.


RE: 4k... so?
By Captain Awesome on 12/20/2013 9:21:43 AM , Rating: 2
Well if Netflix suggests you have a 16 megabit connection to stream 1080p content now, then using the same compression techniques to stream an image 4 times as large would take a 64 megabit connection.

But they're also using a new compression technique, so you'd probably be good with 32 to 40 megabits per second.


RE: 4k... so?
By jihadjoe on 12/21/2013 2:59:38 AM , Rating: 2
If you'd read till the 5th paragraph you'll have seen that Netflix expects 16Mbps for 4k H265. So exactly the same bandwidth for a much higher resolution.

quote:
"We think with that we're going to be delivering in the 10-16Mbps range – about 15Mbps is probably what we should think of."


h.265 support in PCs?
By DanNeely on 12/19/2013 2:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know when dedicated h265 decode support will become available? I'd hope that next years IGPs and GPUs would have it; but haven't seen anything about it either way.

Until hardware decode is available, what level of CPU/GPU will be needed to do software decoding at 1080p/4k?




RE: h.265 support in PCs?
By Mitch101 on 12/19/2013 4:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 but I haven't seen set top boxes capable of using h.265 yet. Of the software decoders Ive seen one specify an Intel I7 is required.


RE: h.265 support in PCs?
By jihadjoe on 12/21/2013 4:39:44 AM , Rating: 2
Broadcom's BCM7445 has been out since January.


By stm1185 on 12/19/2013 6:17:37 PM , Rating: 2
I'd very much like the ability to stream 4k onto my QHD monitor instead of 1080p. They already got Dolby Digital audio on the app, add in 4k support, and Netflix will give MS their first true advantage with Windows 8.




By nick2000 on 12/20/2013 12:20:22 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt that many people use Windows to watch movies so the point is rather moot until DVD/TV/Smart TV players start using Windows 8...


By stm1185 on 12/20/2013 6:57:33 PM , Rating: 2
You doubt many people use a computer to stream Netflix.


Tisk Tisk
By rippleyalienshakd on 12/23/2013 3:19:49 AM , Rating: 2
I say that, to offer this.
Seiki Makes a 50" 4K TV.. $625- Delivered.
Samsung, LG, Sony All make Upconverting BluRay Players, for under $200..

With My 50" 4K TV + Samsung Upconverting BluRay player, I enjoy 4K content now. Movies get upconverted (so far, EVERY Bluray I own), like 60 title's. MOST of the Mpeg\Avi\divx I have upconverts to 4K Very well, MUCH Better, than the Dvd-->Bluray Upconversion of years past.

BUT!!! Where, the DEAL was sealed, was NETFLIX. With this player+4K tv, on my 50mb Comcast internet, It gets the superhd streaming (whatever that is), BUT MOST of the Netflix stuff, is upconverted as well.

IS it true 4K, (NO!!!!!!!!!!!!), not even close. BUT is it visually better, Hands down, MUCH Better. Cross referenced with my 55" Samsung ($1500-last may).. UGG to which already sold- at the price to get my 50" 4K.

WE are already enjoying >1080P, PER the APP via the player\Computer. Every single Smart TV app, for netflix, Fail's in comparison. NOW Watching TRU 4K content, VIA Samsung Note3, NOW that is AWESOME.. VERY awesome. BUT Very, VERYYYYY Greedy.

And to share the greatest portion.. Watching StarWars SIX ogy's..(Full Marathan), You can Fully see how well the upconversion is. Drawback to 4K is that EVERY single 1080P Screen you see, after owning 4K, suddenly looks like Ancient Tech. Even my Galaxy s4, while awesome it is, Suddenly looks like yesteryear tech, after 9mos of 4K.




RE: Tisk Tisk
By rippleyalienshakd on 12/23/2013 3:30:31 AM , Rating: 2
Also, which is Verified.
Xboxone, on a 4K TV ROCKS, games are awesome (more so with video card on device). BUT NFL clips, Movie Clips, Even BluRay Movies on Xboxone, fails the 4K Test.
Xboxone- cannot switch back and forth between 1080P/60 and 2160P/30, IT is an OS thing.

Sony PS4, Same issue. Cannot switch between 1080p and 2160p, without a significant pause (As with the PC). So no 4K support for either of those devices. Even though the hardware is present, it is unable to, per the OS Limitations.

ON PC, that is different. I play 4K gaming, even at 30fps, (MAXX\Min at 30fps), by down-grading the Graphics. Sim City is incredible at 4K. RTS games =incredible. Splinter cell, is ok, at 4K. I just switch resolutions on PC to game, at 1080P, and on a 4K TV, much better than I anticipated. BF3\4 on a 4K TV, looks MUCH better than on a 1080P, RUNNING at 1080P, (Probably do to fact that the pixels are still there), lol.. Xbox360\PS3, LOOK HORRIBLE on 4K TV's.. IT's as if they were running on OLDDDDDD resolutions.. Looked like 1st GEN TV's..(Gave Xbox360 away).

60fps= at 4K- only good for gaming.
24fps= at 4K, = AWESOME for 99.999% of every Movie EVER Made.
Downloaded Youtube at 4K= best you will ever see....

Not to mention, 60fps at 4K=$1500 (3x 780gtx's) of video card- +$1500 in Monitor cost (28" Dell with Display port), kinda still not worth it Financially.


sign me up
By superstition on 12/19/2013 2:57:51 PM , Rating: 3
Wrinkles and nose hairs with just that extra bit of realism!




"Google fired a shot heard 'round the world, and now a second American company has answered the call to defend the rights of the Chinese people." -- Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.)














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki