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  (Source: Penny Arcade)
We compare the two next-gen high end gaming consoles

Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) left gamers fuming when it announced that its console would officially be "always on" and that it would help third-parties to ban used games or charge additional fees for them.  At the 2013 Electronic Entertainment Festival, Microsoft's chief rival Sony Corp. (TYO:6758) added fuel to the fire confirming its previous stated position -- it would not be adding new DRM lockouts for used games.

But the bad end for Microsoft's controversial console does not stop there.  The Xbox is officially less powerful than the PlayStation 4 -- about 30 percent less powerful to be precise.  And it's officially $100 USD more expensive than Sony's PS4.

In short, Sony seems to have regained its PS1/PS2 kung fu, outmaneuvering its rival at nearly every turn.
Xbox One

Here's a quick comparison of how the consoles stack up:
PS4
*Note: PSN limits regifting of digital content, but there's no limit on (re)gifting discs -- as in you can give your friend a disc, they can give someone else that disc.

The specs paint a pretty picture for Sony and a pretty ugly one for Microsoft.  But the controversies don't end there.  In light of the recent spying efforts of the U.S. National Security Agency and revelation that Microsoft was one of the corporate partners cooperating with the spying, many are concerned about the 1080p Kinect camera on Microsoft's "always on" console -- despite Microsoft's insistence that it will include "robust" privacy protections.

Further, there's concern/rumors that it may take games a substantial amount of time to install on the Xbox One's hard drive.  The mandatory hard drive installation was another penalty required to institute Microsoft's new sweeping digital rights management (DRM) scheme to help ban used games and check for unauthorized gifting/trades.


In short despite its incredible look voice controls and user interface, plus an impressive selection of first-party titles and exclusives, Microsoft's console is looking increasingly like a trainwreck in the making.

While Microsoft's loss is Sony's gain, it's also good news for Nintendo Comp., Ltd.'s (TYO:7974) tablet-equipped Wii U console, which has been struggling in sales and recently blasted by Electronics Arts Inc. (EA), who dropped support for it.  

But currently priced at $359.99 USD, Nintendo and Sony could easily split the holiday sales crown if Nintendo drops its price a bit (say to $300 USD).  Incoming 3D Mario, Mario Kart, and Super Smash Bros should give the Wii U a boost.  While it lacks the powerful hardware of its counterparts, at a lower price point, it's unique tablet gameplay could win over some fans.

Source: Microsoft via The Verge



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I am disappoint.
By techxx on 6/11/2013 11:23:22 AM , Rating: 5
The Xbox One had so much potential. What happened? :(




RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 12:13:44 PM , Rating: 5
Stupid happened. And Microsoft richly deserves yet another catastrophic failure for it. You'd think they'd wise up a bit after the Win8 debacle...


RE: I am disappoint.
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2013 1:23:16 PM , Rating: 3
Please the Xbox will still sell fine. Yes they are shooting themselves in the foot though with the initial higher price. Same mistake Sony made last time. Who knows, they might adjust it before launch.

You guys seem to think everyone who buys this stuff looks into it as much as we do. They buy the one they know. Millions know the Xbox, care about their gamer score (stupid I know), want to play with their friends (which the Xbox has always been better at), etc.

Personally like I said I'm getting both but I do look forward to the TV stuff. Provided they don't raise the price of Xbox Live that is. If they did, then yeah I'd be done unless there was a huge change to justify the higher price (I'd gladly pay $10-15/mo for IPTV on my console).


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:27:47 PM , Rating: 5
You're right. People are stupid, and they don't think through their actions.

Buying an XBO is a massive disservice to the global gaming community though...because you're giving MS massive amounts of money to TAKE AWAY YOUR BASIC RIGHTS AS A CONSUMER.

You're setting a precedent. A very, very bad precedent. If the XBO succeeds, future consoles will follow suit - and not just from MS. It is crucial to the future of gaming that the XBO be an abject failure. Absolutely. Crucial.

Think that through. And if you still buy an XBO, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.


RE: I am disappoint.
By invidious on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:56:13 PM , Rating: 5
If you believe that the DRM is going to reduce game prices, I have a bridge to sell you...

Also, people need to stop forgetting about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Any and all plans to require any kind of fee, or any other interference at all (like "participating dealers") in the sale/trade/gifting of games are an abject abuse of the consumer, and the First-Sale Doctrine. I would hope that MS and every publisher connected to the XBO gets sued in a massive class-action lawsuit the instant that practice gets implemented.

As I've been saying, every XBO sale is a massive disservice to gamers worldwide - because ^that^ is the precedent you're setting.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 2:07:15 PM , Rating: 5
How is that PS3 Linux and Backwards compatibility working out?

Did everyone forget the way Sony works sure today no DRM and Used game sales. Did anyone check Sony for fingers crossed behind their backs?


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 2:10:35 PM , Rating: 2
Don't care about Linux, and the backwards compatibility does suck. But the XBO sucks infintely harder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

And if you need me to explain that again, please just show yourself out. Even if everything else was in the XBO's favor, the catastrophic abuse of the consumer by violating the First-Sale Doctrine makes any and all people who speak in favor of the XBO absolute retards who should no longer be allowed to voice an "opinion" ever again.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 2:35:36 PM , Rating: 3
I think you missed his point. Sony has the habit of telling you what you want to hear to make a sale and then after you make the purchase they'll just decide to change the rules. I'm very suspicious of the wording Sony has used up to this point.

That law covers physical media. The Disc itself is just the delivery medium for the Xbox One as to play it requires you to install to hard-disk. You're talking about a game license. Licenses can be non-transferable.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2013 3:00:42 PM , Rating: 5
No doubt annoying to all 5 of those people who bought a PS3 just to run Linux on...


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 3:04:35 PM , Rating: 2
Air Force may suffer collateral damage from PS3 firmware update
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/05/how-removing...


RE: I am disappoint.
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2013 3:20:01 PM , Rating: 1
Our tax dollars at work lol.

There's no legitimate use for our Air Force to be buying gaming consoles. Proof of concept?? Give me a break. You accomplish far more with traditional or purpose-built systems!!

Look I get the whole "Sony sucks" thing, I'm on that bandwagon too. But in this case we have to go with what we know, and that is the PS4 looks far stronger than the Xbox One in a lot of categories.

You're angry about the Linux thing or Sony's rep, yeah I get it. But simply saying "they did it before, they'll do it again" is speculation. Unless you have something more substantial to back it up, it comes off as trolling.

Personally I'll be buying neither "next gen" console, because they're all infinitely inferior to the PC (as always).


RE: I am disappoint.
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 3:21:58 PM , Rating: 1
Then look up the noise canceling headphones contract with Bose and see real waste.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 3:30:04 PM , Rating: 3
Look up *anything* to do with Bose and see real waste.


RE: I am disappoint.
By BRB29 on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 3:56:14 PM , Rating: 1
The Wii was underpowered compared to the 360/PS3 however a lot of games were released for all 3 consoles and they looked very similar. Either way the game play was the same across all 3 consoles and graphics cant save a bad game.

I have to wonder if anyone looked at the game previews Microsoft released showing off the X-Box one and thinks they are sub par? To me its like showing off the Radeon 6870 vs 7870. One gets higher frame rates but when your limited to 60fps there is no difference. At some point they will add some small visual differences that are available to them on the PS4 but most people wont care. It comes down to game play and no amount of graphics can save bad game development.

As for the air force at the time it probably made sense the consoles are generally sold at a loss hoping to make it back in game sales so for the price it probably made sense to do this instead of buying servers they got more power for less money. But lesson learned this is one of the cheaper gov mistakes.

I could care less about the linux pull however Sony did develop a history of saying what people want to hear then back tracking down the line. Did they learn a lesson? Doubtful because I recall very clearly how cass they were on losing client data and not giving a rats behind about it.

With that Ill probably get both consoles but Im thinking Microsoft will see all the resentment toward this and offer up suggestions to over protective game studios. I suspect they will test the waters and measure the fallout then decide if its worth it. Im well aware of whats being said up front from Microsoft and Im fine with it and thats my decision as a consumer. I cant resell my steam games and Im fine with that too.

I personally was thinking on switching consoles each generation and hoping for backwards compatibility. Like getting two console generations but no backwards this time around.


RE: I am disappoint.
By nikon133 on 6/11/2013 4:38:54 PM , Rating: 3
I'd expect that, at some point down the path, when new games reach hardware potential, XBO will be first to show unwelcome signs like frame rate drops below 30, screen tearing etc. Eventually games will be running on lower resolutions internally before being upscaled to 1080... but they will still be the same games.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 4:00:01 PM , Rating: 3
Not angry about the linux thing, I never owned a PS3 even. I just find it disappointing people are putting their trust in Sony over a DRM issue. This is the company that has had some of the worst DRM abuse on record.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 4:10:52 PM , Rating: 1
Wow yes totally forgot about the rootkit Sony put on discs.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:20:03 PM , Rating: 3
F%ck the DRM.

Focus on the First-Sale Doctrine.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:19:14 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
That law covers physical media. The Disc itself is just the delivery medium for the Xbox One as to play it requires you to install to hard-disk. You're talking about a game license. Licenses can be non-transferable.


Nope. Even explicit verbiage in software licenses has been proven to be in violation of the First-Sale doctrine in court and thrown out.

You can sell/trade/gift used CDs. DVDs. Blu-Rays. VHS tapes. And, yes, video games. First. Sale. Doctrine. Learn it. It's one of the most important and most fundamental pillars of our economy.

And I got his point - his point is that Sony has used DRM in the past, and they will again in the future. I agree. But that's not the most important issue here. The brutal vivisection of the First-Sale Doctrine is a violation magnitudes higher than anything else that Microsoft has ever done.

Buy an XBO and you're setting a precedent that would, *literally*, provide the capability to undermine our entire economy. Because if we start giving up the rights granted by the First-Sale Doctrine on XBO games, PS games being next isn't the final problem. It's having the right to resell your car. Your house. Anything you own that was made by someone else.

Everybody who thinks that buying an XBO needs to seriously get a grip on reality. This isn't some nit-picky little annoyance we're talking about. Discarding the First-Sale Doctrine is a world-changing economic precedent that in *every* possible case ends in a worst-possible outcome for consumers.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 4:29:27 PM , Rating: 2
The license is not tied to the disc. So yes, you can sale the disc, but the license is not automatically transferred with said disc. Most enterprise software already works this way. PC games work this way. I think we're just witnessing consoles turn into PCs.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:44:32 PM , Rating: 2
Nope.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/it-s-still-d...

That verbiage in software contracts doesn't stand up in court.

And if it stops working for video games, or other software, then it stops working for everything else.

PC games *do not* work this way. Aside from some draconian DRM like what Spore and Bioshock had, that is. The *vast* majority of PC games are free and clear to buy and sell at will.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 5:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but if you followed that case all the way the 9th Circuit court ruled in favor of AutoDesk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_I...


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 5:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
That is unfortunate, but it's not the only case - and note that the issue isn't only with software. It's with CDs, movies, and frankly anything you buy that someone else holds IP for.

The EFF and others are good resources for this, and the recent Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc ruling may provide new insight into this as well - and also maybe help fix the first-sale issue for digital downloads in the USA as has been done in Europe.

The fact of the matter is that first-sale is a fundamental pillar of our economy...and if we as consumers allow video game publishers to eliminate it, we allow everybody to eliminate it.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 5:16:26 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and the Kirtsaeng case may also eliminate the way that software/game companies charge more for a given product in, say, Australia than they do in the USA.

This is incredibly important stuff from a consumer standpoint.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Just Tom on 6/17/2013 1:31:51 PM , Rating: 2
First sale doctrine for 'licensed' software is already eliminated. The Supreme Court refused to revisit Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc., it is now up to Congress to re-establish first sale doctrine for 'licensed' software.


RE: I am disappoint.
By SixBone on 6/12/2013 11:32:10 AM , Rating: 2
So what about apps/games you buy on a tablet or smartphone...when you are bored of that game, how do you sell it? Or what if you switch platforms iOS to Android or vice versa.

I know it's on a smaller scale, but it's the same principle nevertheless.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/12/2013 12:41:41 PM , Rating: 2
In Europe, you have the same rights for digital purchases as you do for physical purchases.

In the USA, you have no rights as a consumer for digital purchases. So...you're f%cked.


RE: I am disappoint.
By ven1ger on 6/13/2013 4:37:24 PM , Rating: 2
Tablets/smartphones have a different ecosystem and I believe a basic understanding everything is DLC. You don't get any sort of physical media, same as E-Books, you have the DLC but you don't own the physical book. With apps and games, the appreciable different in the DLC for mobile devices is that many of the apps/games are either free to use or extremely cheaper than its counterparts in the console/pc market.

Most of the DLC I've seen for consoles/pcs are full priced as physical media versions, so don't see the reason for accepting DLC, except for Steam.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 2:36:29 PM , Rating: 4
How secure is my personal data and credit information on Sony's network will they notify me when they lose it or play it off? How many times will they lose it before I get a few free games?

Motoman take a chill pill the consoles are not even out and things haven't been finalized.

Im also sure in 6 months Sony will do the same with DRM the same way they like to tell you Linux and Backwards compatibility of the PS3 was going to last forever.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2013 3:25:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Im also sure in 6 months Sony will do the same with DRM the same way they like to tell you Linux and Backwards compatibility of the PS3 was going to last forever.


Based on what? I'm glad that you are "sure", but I require a bit more than just faith.

Dude is there any topic where you won't just side with Microsoft by default no matter what?

Hey by your logic because the Xbox 360 had a failure rate of like 40+%, I'm just going to go ahead and state with all authority that I'm sure the Xbox One will too.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 4:08:17 PM , Rating: 4
Based on Linux Support on the PS3, Backwards Compatibility of the PS3, and the denial of lost customer data, and the sheer cass and arrogance of Sony staff for all of the above actions.

People have a real problem with Microsoft being UP FRONT and honest about POSSIBILITIES of this. Most of this is driven from the Game Studios not Microsoft.

Its just fun for some people to blame Microsoft for all their problems.

I havent had a failed X-Box 360 and I have multiple X-Box first generations as well. But Microsoft made good on the warranty up to 3 years while other companies swept similar bump gate issues under the rug and pretended they didn't happen. Ballmer and Microsoft MANNED UP and took responsibility. What did Sony do downplay what your personal information is worth? Sorry if I find Microsoft actions commendable.


RE: I am disappoint.
By testbug00 on 6/11/2013 7:04:35 PM , Rating: 2
Let me explain this to you:
when did Sony say that being able to run linux was an intended use for the PS3?

They have a right to take away anything that they did not purposely put into their console. Notice how they never advertised this feature.

This feature would be like if the XBone can be turned into a machine that Runs only windows (ie delete everything else) and than Microsoft puts out a patch to stop that from happening.

IE. it is not truly a remove of a feature.

I will not talk about the rest, as i have not followed it, but you really need to not say things that don't make sense.

thanks!
-Q


RE: I am disappoint.
By ven1ger on 6/13/2013 4:46:54 PM , Rating: 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS

The above details the history of the OtherOS that Sony advertised/marketed for the PS3 from 2000.

I once saw a Sony ad for the PS3 which promptly listed the OtherOS feature.


RE: I am disappoint.
By hduser on 6/12/2013 5:23:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think people forgot why there was Linux on PS3 to begin with. It was originally a ploy by Sony to classify the PS3 as a computer and not a gaming device to skirt some tax in Europe. Linux sounded like a good idea since you can get people interested in programming on the cell CPU. When the tax loophole was closed and the threat of using Linux to break their DRM, that feature disappeared. It no longer made sense to continue that feature. The linux was gimped anyways. I for one didn't miss that feature.


RE: I am disappoint.
By EnzoFX on 6/11/2013 6:44:45 PM , Rating: 2
No actually he does not need to relax. It's getting the word out as he is that will put the pressure for MS to stop it before it comes out, you see? Logical right? If everyone took a chill pill, then any company could do anything lol.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 6:47:32 PM , Rating: 2
That's what's so unreal about this.

What MS is doing, or saying they're going to do, is so OBVIOUSLY wildly abusive to the consumer, how is it that ANYONE is coming out in favor of it?

WTF is wrong with the people who are actually *supporting* Microsoft's attempts to take their rights away?


RE: I am disappoint.
By Helbore on 6/11/2013 2:41:41 PM , Rating: 5
When he mentioned Linux, he was obviously referring to the fact that Sony offered this on PS3, then withdrew it completely with a later firmware update. ie. anything Sony say now is not proof they will never do it. XBO-like DRM is only a firmware update away.

However, I agree with what you said before - if XBO succeeds, then its the way everyone will go. We can be sure Sony will push out such an update if they see Microsoft getting away with it.

Similarly, Sony won't shoot themselves in the foot if they see XBO circling the toilet because of these "features." The best way to keep Sony from pushing out such an update is for them to see a competitor tank from doing it.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Gurthang on 6/11/2013 4:27:08 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, you are stuck on First sale... that dog has no legs when it comes to software. Hate the DRM all you want, nobody likes it. The fact of the matter is modern console games just cost too damn much to make for the publisher to not impliment some form of protection for their work. Be it physical (disc) or software (DRM) every method has its ups and downs. Of course the ever expanding "freemium", ad-supported, or subscription methods are also availible (and still a form of DRM).. Just imagine Halo where you walk up to the warthog and get a transaction dialog.. $5 please Or maybe viagra side bars and product placement oh yea! And remember for just $5 a month Halo gold+ members get 20 free super plasma grenades each week!


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:42:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Wow, you are stuck on First sale... that dog has no legs when it comes to software.


Your ignorance is deafening. First-Sale doctrine rules everything. Even software. Even software that has a contract saying can't resell it...because that contract doesn't stand up in court, if it comes to that. If it violates First-Sale, it's an invalid contract.

Here's one example:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/it-s-still-d...

Autodesk isn't exactly a video game either. It's rather expensive. And their industry-standard verbiage saying you can't resell it got tossed in court. Twice.

If suddenly someone decides that First-Sale doesn't apply to video games, then it doesn't apply to software. And then it doesn't apply to CDs...DVDs...Blu-Rays...or eventually your car.

So, am I "stuck" on First-Sale? Mother-f%cking right. Because without First-Sale, the entirety of our economy gets tossed on it's head.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Gurthang on 6/11/2013 6:37:10 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, you missed it that document is old Autodesk appealed the district court's decition and to some extent won:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_I...

quote:


Autodesk retained title to the software and imposed significant transfer restrictions: it stated that the license is nontransferable, the software could not be transferred or leased without Autodesk’s written consent, and the software could not be transferred outside the Western Hemisphere. The SLA also imposed use restrictions against the use of the software outside the Western Hemisphere and against modifying, translating, or reverse-engineering the software, removing any proprietary marks from the software or documentation, or defeating any copy protection device. Furthermore, the SLA provided for termination of the license upon the licensee’s unauthorized copying or failure to comply with other license restrictions. Thus, because Autodesk reserved title to Release 14 copies and imposed significant transfer and use restrictions, we conclude that its customers are licensees of their copies of Release 14 rather than owners.

CTA was a licensee rather than an 'owner of a particular copy' of Release 14, and it was not entitled to resell its Release 14 copies to Vernor under the first sale doctrine. 17 U.S.C. § 109(a). Therefore, Vernor did not receive title to the copies from CTA and accordingly could not pass ownership on to others. Both CTA’s and Vernor’s sales infringed Autodesk’s exclusive right to distribute copies of its work. Id. § 106(3).


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 7:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
I acknowledged that above when someone else pointed out that I didn't see the results of the further appeal. It was just the first case that came up when I searched.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5628
http://cryptome.org/softman-v-adobe.htm

Those have to do with "buycheapsoftware dot com" - one of untold numbers of online vendors who buy OEM copies of various kinds of software - including Windows - and resell them under First-Sale doctrine law. It's legal...those companies are plentiful, and wide out in the open. Likewise with used video games and other software at places even like Micro Center and BBY - not to mention other products like CDs and DVDs.

How about for once we, as consumers, stood up for and defended our interests? As opposed to just rolling over and letting Microsoft (or whoever) just do whatever they want to us?

Also:
http://www.copyright.gov/reports/studies/dmca/repl...

So, yes...First-Sale has stuck in court for software even when the "license" argument has come up.

Obviously the industry would like to make that not so. The publishers are very angry that consumers have rights. They would like very much for consumers to have no rights of ownership for the software (or other) products they buy. So I'm sure the court cases will keep coming - which is why I've said numerous times that I sincerely hope there's a massive class-action lawsuit against Microsoft the instant the XBO comes out because of it's interference in the First-Sale Doctrine.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/12/2013 7:01:03 PM , Rating: 2
We know this, you can buy OEM software on Newegg. This makes complete sense. You can even buy a game on steam, never play it and gift it to someone much like you can in physical stores.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/12/2013 7:12:49 PM , Rating: 2
All this is before you agree to the term of licensing though, after which you are bound to them. Hardly anybody will ever actually sale you software, they'll license it to you and that license may be transferable through gifting or selling. If you don't own the software you do not have the automatic right to sale it.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/13/2013 12:09:38 AM , Rating: 2
I see you ignored the links I provided showing court cases that provide the basis for 3rd parties to buy and sell software, including OEM software, and which do so all over the internet and are even used by government agencies to source software from.

The evidence you're wrong is all around you - used software and video games for sale by countless internet vendors, Gamestop, Micro Center, BBY, etc. CDs, DVDs, etc.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/13/2013 8:44:24 AM , Rating: 2
I skimmed them. I have a problem for one with them being dated 2000,2001. A lot has happened since then in court proceedings. I didn't read any mention of used software in any of the articles. The OEM reselling just seems obvious, it's treated just like all new software in which you can sale to anybody, or give it away. Again I didn't see any mention of used software.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/13/2013 10:59:18 AM , Rating: 2
OK, well then you're entitled to your willful ignorance. The evidence has been presented to you and in fact surrounds you as noted.

It's like they say in botany class: you can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/13/2013 11:41:27 AM , Rating: 2
No, you're just talking about something that's not even up for debate and applying it to other circumstances. Look at Title 17, section 109, and subsection (b)(1)(a). Most importantly...

unless authorized by the owners of copyright in the sound recording or the owner of copyright in a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), and in the case of a sound recording in the musical works embodied therein, neither the owner of a particular phonorecord nor any person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), may, for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage, dispose of, or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program

There is an exception for a computer that is used for the purpose of playing video games, basically protecting the reselling of console games at this time, however the Xbox One runs a full blown OS as well, so it wouldn't fit into this category. Its playing by the same rules a PC plays by.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/13/2013 12:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
And as I've comprehensively shown, used PC software can be bought and sold as well with court rulings enforcing First-Sale rights over the license verbiage.

Buy a Windows license from one of those online vendors, and it's used. It came off a Dell PC or something else for one reason or another. And it's perfectly legal. And even government agencies buy software from those companies.

Newegg doesn't do that because it deals only in the original-sale market...and because it wants to keep MS, Adobe, etc. happy. All these other online vendors, like the one that won the ruling against Adobe that I linked, deal in the second-hand market and what they are doing is buying and selling used, second-hand software. Period. End of story.

Your assertions are proven wrong by the world around you.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Digimonkey on 6/13/2013 2:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
No, the specific issue you linked to was bundled software. Instead of bundling the software together on amachine they just sold off the pieces of software directly to customers. This is an entirely different scenario than you believe. Then was no use of this software prior to selling it.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/14/2013 11:40:17 AM , Rating: 2
That is the ruling that is used as the basis of that industry. They *do* buy and sell used software, including used OEM software such as Windows, that had originally been assigned to major OEM hardware.

And it's legal. And MS et al don't even challenge them in court. And government agencies buy from them.

You. Are. Wrong. Period, end of story.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/13/2013 12:07:32 AM , Rating: 2
Nope. Used OEM software. Not the same thing.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Ushio01 on 6/11/2013 5:00:32 PM , Rating: 1
While removing Linux from the PS3 was a dick move what's your issue with backwards compatibility?

If you bought an early model PS3 you still get full BC.

Sony removed the feature from newer models because people wanted the console to be cheaper (it worked once BC was removed causing a price drop sales exploded) but Sony never removed BC from those who payed for it.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Mint on 6/11/2013 4:48:39 PM , Rating: 2
If you're EA, and a PS4 title only gets one purchase from a group of friends while on XB One that title gets multiple purchases from a similar group, why wouldn't you charge more for the PS4 sales?

We see reduced prices up front for cellphones by charging more down the line.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
A better question would be why you and your group of friends all bought XBox Dones instead of PS4s - so that you could easily share your games without each having to buy your own copy.


RE: I am disappoint.
By lagomorpha on 6/12/2013 11:00:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The only redeeming aspect of DRM that could justify Microsoft's strategy if the DRM drives down the retail price of the games.


Pfffffff hahahahahahahaha. Wait wait I've got one. The RIAA wants to add DRM so that they can drive down the retail price of CDs.

Haha wow you made me smile.


RE: I am disappoint.
By tayb on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: I am disappoint.
By polishvendetta on 6/12/2013 1:08:07 PM , Rating: 1
While I really wanted to vote you up, I dont think it would have made a difference.

People dont realize that console companies make gamming consoles to make money. Sony didnt make the PS4 for you, and MS didnt make the XBOX1 for me. They made them to make money. And it truly comes down to price and games.

I enjoy how skewed the article was making it seem like PS4 is better based on an arbitrary list of unknowns. "Here is a 'spec sheet' of a bunch of policies and procedures" Seriously?

No mention of cloud computing, no mention of TV integration, No mention of Windows integration. Skype? IE?

To be honest this whole thing is a big joke. A writer for this sight might as well post a 'spec sheet' comparison of atheism vs catholicism.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Da W on 6/11/2013 3:21:53 PM , Rating: 1
Nonsence!

1-95% of games will be made for Xbox - PS4 - PC. If they're not locked on PS4 why would the game publisher lock it on the Xbox?

2-This DRM shit has been going on for a while in the PC industry if you download your games directly via steam. What happened? Prices dropped. Games are consistently on sales, i got Batman for 2,95$! PEOPLE DON'T MAGICALY SPEND MORE MONEY ONCE YOU BAN USED GAMES. THE ECONOMIC DEMAND STAYS THE SAME. IN FACE OF INCREASED COMPETITION FOR YOUR LIMITED DOLLARS' PRICES DROP. Basic economic 101. Ok 102 may be.

3-Games are moving away from discs and toward download only model, if not streaming from affar (Nvidia shield). What will the PS4 do in 5 years?

4-I said it elsewhere, buy a AMD Trinity + Radeon 7850 PC and you'll get as much power as a PS4.


RE: I am disappoint.
By damianrobertjones on 6/11/2013 5:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
Then none of us should buy from Steam really


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 5:59:05 PM , Rating: 2
I am not a fan of digital distribution of any kind, because in the USA there appears to be no rights at all for the consumer regarding digital downloads - as opposed to Europe, where they've firmly established First-Sale doctrine rights for digital products as well as physical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine#A...

People often say that they're not bothered by the fact that they can't resell their Steam games because they paid less for them in the first place. Personally that doesn't work for me, because although you may have paid $30 for a game instead of $50, the fact is you still paid $30 for something that you now have no rights for.


RE: I am disappoint.
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 6:53:59 PM , Rating: 2
But games are only as cheap as they are because there is no secondary used games market. Because a chunk of EVERY sale goes to the developer, it better supports the developers and their future titles with more money.

If the choice is between the ability to resell my steam games or support the developers with more money and more sales, I will choose the latter every time.

More money for devs = better titles, lower prices, more sales (as in going on sale, not necessarily more actual sales).

During the steam sales, I'm able to get 2-3 entire franchises of games for less than what gamestop sells a single used game for, except now all the money I just spent goes to the developers (after valve's small cut). I think I got the entire assassin's creed franchise for like $30, and all of the Prince of Persia games for something like $15. This beats out used games any day of the week, and cannot happen if the digital licenses are transferable.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 7:21:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because a chunk of EVERY sale goes to the developer, it better supports the developers and their future titles with more money.


Go ahead and repeat that for CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays, eBooks, so on and so forth, and see if you still think you're making sense. Do you realize you're begging for the corporations to take your ownership rights away from you?


RE: I am disappoint.
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 8:32:09 PM , Rating: 2
Do you realize you are asking them to drive up costs to account for the fact that every resell of an existing piece of media gives them no money?

If a better model was currently in place for music TV, movies, and books that don't allow such easy redistribution, you would infact see lower prices and more fire sales of the content.

I understand your concern about not being able to buy the product and resell it to make money back. Perfect sense. But if it is known ahead of time that this is not allowed, then there is no issue. If people don't like it, then they should stop buying the products. Obviously steam has proven that most people would prefer the low prices and sales over the ability to resell their games.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 9:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
Um, up until now, have they been "driving up costs to account for blah blah blah?"

No.

It didn't happen to video games, it didn't happen to CDs, or DVDs, or Blu-Ray, or anything else.

Did Spore cost less because you can only install it 3 times? Or Bioshock? No and no.

You're still a tool.


RE: I am disappoint.
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 10:35:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Um, up until now, have they been "driving up costs to account for blah blah blah?"


Actually a copy of a game stayed relatively the same price for a long time. The cost of game development had gone up significantly.

New games have always been $50-60 for generations.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 11:42:39 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly.


RE: I am disappoint.
By BRB29 on 6/12/2013 8:52:27 AM , Rating: 2
TBH, if they sell all the games for $20-30 with no resell rights then I would have no problems. But if they're going to charge me $60+ and use all these retarded DRM restricting me from selling it then it's unacceptable.

I honestly think they would actually make more money selling cheaper games.

Let's say it cost them $50m a game. They'll sell it for $25 and make only $15 on each after paying for everything. $15 x 5m = $75m
If they used an online distribution method, they would actually get more than $15 back.
Selling 5m copies isn't hard these days especially at fire sale prices.

I know for a fact that what keeps most people from buying a new game is price. $60 is still quite high. I found myself and all my friends buying $10-30 games just to try it out. At $60, it is not even worth buying the games we anticipated.

I really don't see why MS, Sony and developers isn't lowering the prices of games. There's a few hundred million gamers now. They should sell way more to lower their contribution margin per unit. The MSRP wouldn't hurt them.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/12/2013 11:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
You should never abdicate a right for any reason. Saying that it's OK for MS et al to remove your ownership rights if they drop the cost of the product is an act of stupidity.

Your rights are worth more than any game.


RE: I am disappoint.
By polishvendetta on 6/12/2013 1:22:58 PM , Rating: 2
What exactly are you claiming to own?

People dont realize games are software. Software is nebulous. If I write a peice of code and that code shows up in a different software program I have the right to sue, but what if that company bought my software? Do they have rights to use that code?

The only reason you think you have rights is because it took a while for people to be able to cheaply get around the physical media. When I was 8, there was no internet, and the poeple figuring out how to hack Nintendo Roms where engineers. Now highschool kids and younger are reverse engineering software as long as they have a computer.

These rights are things you never had. You own the media, not the code, not the game. DMCA specifically states you are buying a licence, thats been held up in courts for CD's, Software, Movies, ect.

You are spreading misinformation, and if you dont believe me then sue MS and tell me how that goes.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Motoman on 6/12/2013 1:44:58 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5628
http://cryptome.org/softman-v-adobe.htm

http://www.copyright.gov/reports/studies/dmca/repl...

Software isn't nebulous. It's been proven in court that "license" verbiage in the contract doesn't preclude people from buying and reselling that software.

The digital thing has f%cked American consumers so far, but not Europeans - their courts have ruled to show that digital purchases have the same First-Sale rights as physical purchases. It's only Americans that are taking it in the a$s on that.

I am spreading fact. If you don't believe me, ask MS why they hae never done anything about the resale of their software via countless vendors on the internet. It's because they can't - it's perfectly legal because of First-Sale. And the same holds true for CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays, etc. You have the right to buy and sell those products. The only thing you don't have the right to do is to defeat the DRM to make a copy. If your assertion was true, how do you explain all the used CD/DVD stores all over the place? Let alone Gamestop?

Sorry - the reality around you obviously demonstrates that you're wrong.


RE: I am disappoint.
By TSS on 6/12/2013 5:57:57 AM , Rating: 1
When you've got a large installed userbase, you can get away with this shit. Because large groups of people are stupid.

I think we've established precedent has already been set otherwise Microsoft would not ever try to pull this off. There's no possible freaking way Microsoft isn't doing this on purpose.


RE: I am disappoint.
By haukionkannel on 6/11/2013 6:23:24 PM , Rating: 2
Well the Xbox is more expensive because of included Kinect 2.0 camera. It would have been 150$ if sold separately.
Same as PS3 with blu ray, itm did make that console very expensive in the beginning. Now blu-ray players are cheap. Within time the Kinect 2.0 will become cheaper to produce, so will the price of Xbox One. Is the Xbox One price diffence a worth of it because of Kinect 2.0 camera... propably not, but who knows, maybe it will be better supported this time bacause it is basic feature with each Xbox One consoles... but only maybe...


RE: I am disappoint.
By EnzoFX on 6/11/2013 6:49:00 PM , Rating: 2
I don't buy the kinect argument. The fact that they went with cheaper hardware, THAT should cover the cost of the Kinect, I can't imagine the Kinect costing $100 to make, that would be ridiculous.


RE: I am disappoint.
By jabber on 6/11/2013 8:25:19 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 42 and I want a media box that can also play games. For me thats the Xbox One.

The second hand games and 24 hour connectivity dont affect me at all.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that now uses his 360 for 90% media and just 10% gaming. It was very different in 2006 but now gaming is not so important for me.

I think MS has made the right box for a lot of people, just not the hardcore gamers. But then the money nowadays isnt in games is it! MS know the money is in media subscriptions and tieing it all in with the big media companies.

MS aint looking to EA and the like for their future.


RE: I am disappoint.
By EricMartello on 6/14/2013 11:58:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Please the Xbox will still sell fine. Yes they are shooting themselves in the foot though with the initial higher price. Same mistake Sony made last time. Who knows, they might adjust it before launch.


The price isn't the issue so much as it is Microsoft attempting to undermine or kill the used game market and devalue previously purchased games. They're betting that people "love" the Xbox so much that they're going to go buy the "upgraded" versions of the old games they used to like.

quote:
You guys seem to think everyone who buys this stuff looks into it as much as we do. They buy the one they know. Millions know the Xbox, care about their gamer score (stupid I know), want to play with their friends (which the Xbox has always been better at), etc.


True, the xbox has cornered the online play element as far as consoles go, but they didn't do anything that Sony is incapable of doing if they play their hand wisely. Previous success is no guarantee of future success - see SEGA and more recently, Nintendo.

quote:
Personally like I said I'm getting both but I do look forward to the TV stuff. Provided they don't raise the price of Xbox Live that is. If they did, then yeah I'd be done unless there was a huge change to justify the higher price (I'd gladly pay $10-15/mo for IPTV on my console)


Honestly I could care less about that add-on crap. I want a console that, first and formost, plays games and plays them well. I want an excellent first-party library and not a bunch of cross-platform mouth-breather oriented FPS and sports games. Historically, the PS library has always been a bit more diverse since you have a broader swath of developers making games for it.

I do not need to choose one; I could buy both, but I will not because I don't want the clutter and I don't have the time to sit around playing games as much as I used to.


RE: I am disappoint.
By fteoath64 on 6/18/2013 6:31:29 AM , Rating: 2
Both boxes are waiting to be hacked so either Linux or Android can be loaded and bye-bye to the original OS of these boxes and the controls associated to it. From a technical viewpoint, I would assume XB One is easier to hack and pretty sure within 2 weeks, a loadable Linux distribution would be working on that. A $500 mini superComputer anyone ?.The PS4 would likely be used as a GPU server when hacked to service games streamed to tablets. An el-cheapo VCX would be a nice thing to have especially when it can render Android games at highest resolution a tablet can handle.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Samus on 6/11/2013 3:36:39 PM , Rating: 2
Win8? I'd go further back to Vista. The XBOX One is becoming the gaming divisions "Vista" which will keep people on XBOX 360 (like Vista did for Windows XP) or force them to move to the competition (PS4) much like Vista pushed some people to Mac's.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Wolfpup on 6/12/2013 10:12:23 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is fine. It has a bit of a learning curve, but it's just another version of Windows at the end of the day.

The Xbox One deserves to be a complete failure. They're selling something that you can't own games for, which costs $100 more, and the Playstation 4 is fully 50% more powerful? I mean what the hell?


RE: I am disappoint.
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 12:52:13 PM , Rating: 1
I asked that same question about win8


RE: I am disappoint.
By Shig on 6/11/2013 2:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
More DRM is just always bad, history proves this everytime.

I want a good motion sensor and game for the PC already. Next gen GPU's will have ~3 Tflops by themselves.


RE: I am disappoint.
By spread on 6/11/2013 2:25:12 PM , Rating: 3
You're just using Windows 8 wrong. Microsoft says the new interface is better and you like ads and buying software from them only giving them a fat cut of the sales. You also don't need multi monitor support.

You're holding it wrong.


RE: I am disappoint.
By OoklaTheMok on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: I am disappoint.
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 2:50:36 PM , Rating: 2
lmao. I don't think this is going to work the way you think it will.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2013 3:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Xbox One supports offloading compute tasks to the xbox cloud. So as the cloud scales in power, so does the Xbox One.


Is that the plot of Swordfish 2: The Re-Hackening?


RE: I am disappoint.
By Circuitlicker on 6/12/2013 6:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
A hell of a lot of influence from people with very large wallets looking to make them fatter. PS4 is clearly listening to the gamer rich and poor. Ultimately it will win the vote of the majority. I myself will choose the PS4 for it's TFLOPS and faster RAM. Maybe you could even swap the HDD like before. Price is the cherry. AMD is really cashing in on this battle. Maybe they'll take out Intel with this crazy contract.


RE: I am disappoint.
By Meinolf on 6/13/2013 8:27:38 AM , Rating: 2
But wasn't the PS3 suppose to be faster than the Xbox 360? I know a lot of cross-platform games suffered slower frame rates on PS3. It will come down to how games are developed for the Xbox One. I think the killer is the price difference.


Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 11:43:30 AM , Rating: 3
...granted that it's eminently clear that only a sociopath would buy an XBox Done over a PS4 (because of the message that would send the industry - "go ahead and take away our rights for no reason, we'll still buy your crap"), I admit I am unclear about what the "gifting limit" is that's referenced for the PS4.

Can anyone elucidate that for me?




RE: Death to Microsoft
By Concillian on 6/11/2013 1:35:27 PM , Rating: 2
"I admit I am unclear about what the "gifting limit" is that's referenced for the PS4."

Digital content associated with a game is what is restricted on the PS4. You buy a game, then buy some digital DLC.. like a map pack or something. You can give the disc away but there will be restrictions on gifting the DLC.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:38:45 PM , Rating: 2
Oh. Don't care then. That makes perfect sense...if you personally buy some DLC, that's a separate purchase from the game itself.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 1:42:51 PM , Rating: 2
I hope is limit is just 1 for 1 exchange. It is easy to copy downloaded content to any usb drive and stick it in the next machine.

What I don't want to see is that it cost money to transfer it to another person. DLC should be treated the same way as a game disc. 1 for 1 policy.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 2:12:49 PM , Rating: 2
I don't actually know what point you were trying to make there, but it appears to be a moot point as the table has been updated to fix the typo.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By chripuck on 6/11/2013 3:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
You can be a real piece of work Moto. What in heaven's name is the difference between DLC and a Game? (Hint: you associate ownership with physical media possession.) It's software, period. Either it's draconian and against first sale doctrine by preventing the resell of ANY software or it's not, full stop. If you're going to run around these forums and insult anyone who has the slightest of different opinions from yourself at least have the balls and brains to be consistent.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 3:59:33 PM , Rating: 2
You paid $X for the game, and you sell it for $Y. The DLC you bought isn't attached to that game...therefore it doesn't go with it.

There's nothing inconsistent there. 2 different purchases. And unlike Europe, the US has little to no rights for transfers of digital purchases...whereas the physical game is covered by the First-Sale Doctrine.

How about you try growing a brain before you go off on me, junior?


RE: Death to Microsoft
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 4:43:21 PM , Rating: 2
So it's OK that you can resell the game but not being able to transfer DLC ownership is OK because it's a separate purchase? This goes against everything you've been spewing so far. Regardless of it being a different purchase, locking the DLC to a particular console is the same type of DRM you are voting against.

By your logic in your very post I'm replying to, the Xbox one doesn't have any issues because games will be sold as digital licenses, and therefore "has little to no rights for transfers of digital purchases"


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
No, it doesn't. They are 2 separate purchases...period. Selling one doesn't mean the other goes with it. And the DLC isn't locked to a console...it's locked to the person who bought it, just like your iTunes library, which is DRMd up the a$s, is locked to you personally - not one iPod.

Also, as I've already noted, the US has much weaker protections for digital goods than Eurpoe does. There's plenty of precedent in Europe for First-Sale rights on digital purchases - but not in the US. It's wrong for the US to be this way, but maybe we'll get that fixed like Europe did.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 5:36:07 PM , Rating: 2
I fail to see how you think these two scenarios are different

1) Game is sold to you as a physical disc. You own it. DLC (secondary purchase) is locked to the person == perfectly OK!

2) Game is sold to you as a digital license in a digital store == OMG horrible, no used game support this is evil.

You have every right to complain, but please be consistent. Buying DLC separately from the original game is not any different than buying the game itself just because it's not a physical disc. The same concept applies as Xbox One's DRM scheme through digital licensing.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 6:02:16 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying that *I* think they're different.

I'm saying that in the USA there are no consumer rights for digital content. eBooks, iTunes, Steam, etc. And DLC.

This is different from Europe, where First-Sale rights have been established for digital downloads.

See how I'm CONSISTENLY telling you the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN? And how you're consistently not getting it? Maybe you should take that ESL class again.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 6:23:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
See how I'm CONSISTENLY telling you the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

Reading all of your posts... no, I don't Because you didn't. In fact:
quote:
Oh. Don't care then. That makes perfect sense...if you personally buy some DLC, that's a separate purchase from the game itself.


significantly implies that you are OK with the scenario, which is inconsistent with the remainder of your ramblings against the XBO.


RE: Death to Microsoft
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 6:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
I'd have to agree with you, if you were making any sense at all.

The DLC is separate from the game.

The DLC is not protected under First-Sale rights in the USA as it is elsewhere.

You're still able to resell the original game.

If you want to claim you're interpreting that as me "being OK" with it, then that's your problem. I am categorically not "OK" with it, but being aware of the lack of First-Sale rights in the USA for digital downloads, I know there's nothing that can be done about it.

For now.


XBox One = Prism on steroids...
By bsim50 on 6/11/2013 11:52:20 AM , Rating: 5
"If Kinect senses too many people in the room, it will prompt the users to upgrade the license."

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a484593/xb...

Think about what that means : camera and microphone on all the time (even when not gaming) and actively "pattern matching" people. No thank you.




RE: XBox One = Prism on steroids...
By wempa on 6/11/2013 12:16:46 PM , Rating: 2

Wow. This console just keeps getting worse and worse !


By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 12:41:58 PM , Rating: 2
There is a switch on the Kinect to turn it on/off.


By KurgSmash on 6/11/2013 12:49:23 PM , Rating: 2
Lol, FUD and rubbish.

The Xbox will not do this, someone confused patent applications with actual features.


Spent all day at E3
By TakinYourPoints on 6/12/2013 2:26:50 AM , Rating: 4
I spent today at E3, saw a lot of new stuff, saw a lot of old friends. At dinner with some developer friends, all veterans, none of us could believe what we were reading: http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/12/no-internet-get-an...

quote:
MS Don Mattrick: "We have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity; it’s called Xbox 360."


Mind you, this quote was made to Gametrailers, probably to Geoff Keighley. This is as legit as it gets.

What kind of message is Microsoft trying to send? This goes well beyond disbelief, it almost feels like suicide.




RE: Spent all day at E3
By retrospooty on 6/12/2013 12:01:11 PM , Rating: 2
"What kind of message is Microsoft trying to send? This goes well beyond disbelief, it almost feels like suicide."

Absolutely amazing. I am with you, I cant believe they are doing it in the first place, but considering they are, I cant even believe that comment was said. Major WTF?

I guess the message is clear though... Dont buy an Xbox One. In the end, that is all I hear from it (once the laughter stops). ;)


RE: Spent all day at E3
By Motoman on 6/12/2013 12:40:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What kind of message is Microsoft trying to send? This goes well beyond disbelief, it almost feels like suicide.


It's incumbent upon all of us to make sure that it *is* suicide.


Exclusive channels...
By ReloadAO on 6/11/2013 1:20:39 PM , Rating: 5
Kinect: fap fap fap fap
XBOX: he's watching lot of p0rn

1h later...

Kinect: Family gathering!
XBOX: Let's remind him about our exclusive 4K porn channel with instant play!




By OoklaTheMok on 6/11/2013 2:43:09 PM , Rating: 1
Everyone seems to forget that the XBox One includes cloud computing so that it can offload a portion of the compute workload to the XBox Cloud. This distribution of computing can continue to scale as more cloud computing and software refinements are introduced. With the PS4, you have static compute capabilities.




By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 3:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you. I'll be listening for anyone else parroting the highly-amusing "static compute" phrase so I can quickly and easily identify people who know nothing about computers. Enjoy your super-powered cloud gaming, lmfao.


By BillyBatson on 6/15/2013 12:25:00 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry you got voted down for making sense


By kilkennycat on 6/11/2013 8:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
.... here I am not thinking of a on-line MP game that has lost popularity, where the game servers are shutting down. I am thinking of the Single-Player game, or the SP component of a SP/MP game, or a locally-hosted LAN-MP game.

Will the EULA of such a game specify that Microsoft will always provide the (DRM)-authentication, to insulate against a game distributor or developer going out of business, or capriciously shutting down the authentication server?? And what about the day the XFlopOne is replaced by the non-compatible XBiggerFlop2. Will MS continue the XFlopOne game authentication support? Console users have become accustomed to the lack of backward compatibility and keep their old machine(s) to play previous-generation games. However, in the case of the XFlopOne, retaining the hardware may not be enough... thanks to the DRM.

The sooner MS totally gives up their DRM nonsense on locally-playable games for the XFlopOne, the better it will be for their financial future.




By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 3:53:50 PM , Rating: 2
You know the online check for the console is literally just a firmware update away? In ten years or so, the ability to to that to this machine will be so widespread it won't even be funny(assuming microsoft doesn't get off its ass and removes the 24 hours check first) I mean hell, the biggest issues will be the games that require U-play, or Origins, or the Blizzard servers, or Sony's servers, or whatever to connect to that can't anymore.

The console is the easiest part of the DRM scheme to fix.


It Doesnt Matter Which one we buy..
By rippleyaliens on 6/12/2013 1:37:54 AM , Rating: 2
All that Matters, is that neither one of these consoles will be ready for the next evolution. 3.5 Years to design. 8 YEARS, the both of them, to give us these.

We already have access to $1200 Ultra HD TV's. YES, they are not top of the line, actually BOTTOM, BUT!!!! They do Indeed display very, VERY!! Good. What does this mean.
1st TIME in Computer Gaming History, that we have Generation OLD, Video Cards that actually can run Games at ULTRA Resolution, ULTRA Quality IE, are more advanced than the Monitors that will soon hit..

IE-- By end of next year, their FIRST of 8 (in comparison). PC Gamers will have the ability to run 4K Resolution, ULTRA quality games. OF course Monitors will plummet in price. OF course, after a set number of Monitors have been sold, you will see a Bump IN the games, QUALITY Wise, in order to run at 4K, ULTRA Quality.

Consoles, Will never have enough time to do that. By the time Either Console maker, comes out with ANYTHING.. to do 4K.. PC Gaming, will indeed take off, AND- A different Console maker, will emerege with 4K, console games.

Will take 2-3 Tick\TOCK's for Intel to catch up to 4K GAMING GPU's., and Amd.. Displaying a movie= BIG DEAL.. BUT GAMING, well that will be the game changer.

Weve been through this, ALOT over the years. 1080P, Had finally caught on. First on the PC Level, then swiftly moved to commercial TV's (Economically priced that is). That was Xbox's \ PS4, First taste of the Video Resolution Game. I dont think they are prepared for this type of game.




By rippleyaliens on 6/12/2013 1:40:26 AM , Rating: 2
And i Mean, Consoles, with enough GPU power, to run 4k Games, Without utilizing 300+ Watts.. IE something that fits in a Gaming Console Form Factor, that can run 4K- Games.


Battle not neccesary
By Circuitlicker on 6/12/2013 6:59:59 PM , Rating: 3
PS4 will be my choice. Higher TFLOPS, faster RAM, better controller alll with a lower price and used game abilities as a cherry on top. Used games is the backbone of my gaming career. Who wants to pay premium for a piece of crap game that you can't get rid of. Thus tells me that Sony is listening to the avid gamer rich and poor. The one who is really gaining from either victor in this "Battle" is AMD. Maybe they'll get the money to build an awesome cheap CPU that out-does Intel from these huge contracts.




Seal
By p05esto on 6/11/2013 11:34:51 AM , Rating: 2
The deal has been sealed for me for a while. PS4 it is, go play in a corner Xbox, you are DOA and will be HATED by gamers, utterly hated. My rage against MS these days is unequaled. First the crap that was Win8, they killed off some software I used, then Xboc One bomb.... sheesh, they are dead.




XBOned
By ResStellarum on 6/11/2013 11:58:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
In short despite its incredible look voice controls and user interface, plus an impressive selection of first-party titles and exclusives, Microsoft's console is looking increasingly like a trainwreck in the making.

Actually there's nothing particularly special about XB's look, voice, or UI. In fact, if one looks at the failure of metro on the desktop and in mobile, it becomes clear that the UI is a negative not a positive.

As far as Kinect goes, it's just a standard motion controller affair. I know many people who have one and they are sitting in some draw or cupboard somewhere gathering dust. In short, not many people actually use them. The fact that it bumps the price of the XB another $100 compared to the PS4 is unforgivable.

Microsoft has well and truly XBOned itself here. The XBOne has absolutely no redeeming qualities what so ever for gamers. It's a product designed by bean counters to extract as much money out of people as possible. Even accessing Netflix requires a $60 a year subscription. How crazy is that?




I haven't forgiven Sony
By jeepga on 6/11/2013 12:22:46 PM , Rating: 2
It sounds more and more likely that I'm going to stick with my Xbox 360. I haven't forgiven Sony for their shenanigans. And I'm not about to pay more for a crippled entertainment device that can be used to spy on my household. The opposing argument that there are checks and balances on that sort of power have been discredited with the recent domestic spying news.




Case study anyone?
By sorry dog on 6/11/2013 12:57:41 PM , Rating: 2
I can't help but feel like this is playing out to be great teaching example to be put into Marketing textbooks on how not launch a product...

Microsoft has research and marketing resources that any company would kill to have, yet the product launch of the Xbox One is looking ugly at best. While we don't know what the specific management breakdowns are at at this point... being it big egos/unrealistic expectations, group think, or overconfidence, but there must be some classic human failures going on in Redstone. We'll probably see a Harvard Business Review article before long...




Microsoft F'ed Up
By dxf2891 on 6/11/2013 3:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
I've had and XBox since the original model, but this is it. I will not buy an XB1 and I will tell anyone who asks not to buy one either. I would wager that I am responsible for over 400 gamers for buying an XBox 360. Now Sony can get that money.




How do you put this bluntly?
By 2bdetermine on 6/11/2013 4:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's f**k!




Moronic greed.
By jmarchel on 6/11/2013 9:53:37 PM , Rating: 2
Thank God for Sony and THANK YOU SONY. You delivered gaming box that is more powerful, less expensive and also free of the DRM stupidity. BRAVO Sony. Only moron and completely uninformed customer will go for your competitor product.
Thank you for being CONSUMER ORIENTED. Thank you for choice that let us show what we think about recent direction of the Redmond giant.




Wait a minute...
By TonySquish on 6/12/2013 9:07:21 AM , Rating: 2
I looks like BOTH console manufacturers are taking the exact same approach on the first and third party used games market.

They've both said that MS or Sony games will be able to be shared but third party games will be up to the developer.

http://kotaku.com/third-party-publishers-will-have...




By half_duplex on 6/12/2013 10:32:53 AM , Rating: 2
MS is basically creating a system in which you don't buy the game, you RENT it permanently.

What does this open the door for? Varying levels of game ownership.

Get ready to see the $120+ version of games, that give you "premium status", allowing all you friends to play .




What's Next for the Xbox?
By johnsmith9875 on 6/13/2013 11:20:39 AM , Rating: 2
Is Microsoft changing its interface to Windows 8?




wow
By p05esto on 6/11/2013 9:35:15 PM , Rating: 1
XBox is doooooomed. There's no possible way I would buy that over the PS4 right now, not a single chance. PS4 sounds pretty good, I'm definately going that route even though I have an Xbox now. Sorry MS, you F'd up BIG time, again.... Freaking stupid Win8 start screen, metro apps and start menu shitstorm of crap. I can't work with that POS.




Apples and oranges
By joshuaheard on 6/12/2013 5:49:48 AM , Rating: 1
The Xbox is more than just a gaming console like the PS4, it is a full home media server. I use my Xbox 360 to watch movies more than playing games. It has Netflix, Hulu, and Xbox Live to download all movies and TV shows available. The Xbox One will connect to you cable now. You can also hook your home network, so I can watch torrents residing on my PC.

Also, the Xbox One has many more features than the PS4, for instance you have the ability to play without a controller, unlike the PS4.

Why does Daily Tech always focus on the negative when it comes to Microsoft? I detect a major anti-Microsoft bias on this site.




The Power of One Compels Me.
By lordcheeto on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: The Power of One Compels Me.
By spread on 6/11/2013 2:22:51 PM , Rating: 2
Its not an all in one device. It just connects to your DVR and Satellite as a middleman. Now you can use the Xbox One as a universal remote! Probably assuming they add proper compatibility instead of telling you you're using it wrong. Or just get a Logitech remote that's compatible with everything and cheaper.

Also the PS4 will do Netflix and I'm sure a few other services. Digital distribution is kind of a big deal now. Even the PS3 does this.

Enjoy your expensive additional box thingie. Add it to the pile under your TV.


By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 3:56:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Enjoy your expensive additional box thingie. Add it to the pile under your TV.


Umm, wouldn't the PS4 be another box under your tv? or is it just a piece of software that you patch in somewhere? I'm confused /sarcasm


Editor error
By techxx on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Editor error
By NeoReaper on 6/11/2013 11:43:53 AM , Rating: 2
cuz Jason Mick posted this...


RE: Editor error
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 12:12:24 PM , Rating: 1
I went and Googled a bit, and I'm thinking the mistake was putting "yes" in there - not making it green.

I can't find any information that indicates there is a gifting limit on the PS4, unless someone else has something I didn't find.


RE: Editor error
By wempa on 6/11/2013 12:21:28 PM , Rating: 2

Since the games are disc-based and there are no restrictions on used games, I don't see how there could possibly be gifting limits on the PS4. Just give the disc away !


RE: Editor error
By lenardo on 6/11/2013 12:27:22 PM , Rating: 4
gifting limit on a disk ps4 vs the one.

unopened game- same limits apply- give gift- they get game - no worries

OPENED GAME you are gifting to a Friend- ie a game you PLAYED.

PS4....give game to friend, they play, they can then gift it to another friend, or give it back.

One...give game to friend ONLY if they have been on your friends list for a minimum of 30 days, then they have to activate it, install it, then they can NEVER give that game away to another friend OR give it back to YOU.


RE: Editor error
By wempa on 6/11/2013 12:30:39 PM , Rating: 2

Ahhh, I like the second one better </sarcasm>


RE: Editor error
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 1:06:41 PM , Rating: 1
Because the PS4 gifting limits are download-only. Game discs are actually a "no," hence the green coding on the PlayStation side.


RE: Editor error
By techxx on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
HTPC
By KurgSmash on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: HTPC
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 1:22:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I want to replace my home theater PC and my cable box (well, I already did with a Ceton, but pretend I have a cable box too) with one box.
Put an HD 7870 in my HTPC. Rekindled my love affair with Steam. Craiglisted my 360. Kept one of the controllers for my HTPC.

One box. Done. Next?


RE: HTPC
By KurgSmash on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: HTPC
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:37:32 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, why is that? I have an HTPC that originally had a 4870 in it, just upgraded to a 7850...play games awesomely on my 67" TV from the couch and the whole experience is mind-blowing.

So WTF are you complaining about?


RE: HTPC
By invidious on 6/11/2013 2:02:58 PM , Rating: 4
Maybe if PC games arbitrarily cost $60 regardless of their content it would better simulate the console customer experience that he craves so much.

Seriously though, PC gaming on a coach is amazing. Playing Nimbus on a 10' projection screen with a Bluetooth controller is particularly awesome. And it really doesn’t cost that much to build a modest gaming PC these days.


RE: HTPC
By rpsgc on 6/11/2013 1:51:25 PM , Rating: 2
Bad?

Let me see:

- Plugs into big screen TV?
Yes.

- Can be played on the couch with wireless controller? (or wireless KB & mouse)
Yes.

I fail to see how it's bad, useless or worse than a console?


RE: HTPC
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 2:00:17 PM , Rating: 1
It's not bad. It's just more complicated and has more problems.

A console works better because it was designed to work one way.


RE: HTPC
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 2:12:05 PM , Rating: 2
More complicated and more problems?

HDMI cable between video card and TV.

Done.


RE: HTPC
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 2:56:04 PM , Rating: 1
You can't possibly tell me a PC is simpler to use. If PC was as simple as a console then it would actually be more popular. Most people don't want to deal with drivers, troubleshoot, windows, etc... even though the gaming experience is better.

Joe Schmoe just want to press ON and grab the controller.


RE: HTPC
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 3:33:29 PM , Rating: 2
Try setting up an XBox Live account from the standpoint of a basic end user, and then compare that to setting up an account for any free MMORPG in the world and tell me what's simpler.

Buy a PC. Plug it in. Turn it on. How, exactly, is that more complicated than "Buy a console. Plug it in. Turn it on."

Virtually all PCs these days have HDMI connectors. And if you're not a DIYer, you're just going to buy an OEM PC, turn it on, and use it. No f%cking around with drivers or anything else.


RE: HTPC
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 10:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No f%cking around with drivers or anything else.


Really? lol


RE: HTPC
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 11:44:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, really. Buy an Alienware gaming rig. Or even just some Walmart special HP unit.

What does Joe Schmoe do with it when he gets home? Plug it in and turn it on. Done.


RE: HTPC
By BRB29 on 6/12/2013 12:16:14 AM , Rating: 2
I've never had a single PC store bought of any kind with updated software out of the box. Nobody I know does either. It's a known fact that the first thing you do is update all your software and take out all the junkware.

I don't even know why you're fighting this. PC has a variety of hardware that a software has to be compatible with while consoles are fixed. That alone tells you there will always be more problems with PCs.

Let's not even get into price. $400 will not get you anything to game on unless it's used and probably with no monitor.

Did it stop me from PC gaming? no, but most of my friends would rather just have a console. There's nothing wrong with that.


RE: HTPC
By A11 on 6/12/2013 5:23:38 AM , Rating: 2
But Joe Schmoe doesn't remove junk or update software, other than what windows update does for him so your argument is moot.


RE: HTPC
By Motoman on 6/12/2013 11:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. The PC still works and does what it supposed to - whether or not it takes 5 minutes to boot up.

Honestly...you two guys are being ridiculously petulant about this.


RE: HTPC
By A11 on 6/12/2013 6:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
My reply was to brb29.


Wow bias much?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Wow bias much?
By lordcheeto on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Wow bias much?
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 11:40:16 AM , Rating: 3
PS4 is infinitely better than XBox Done because:

* no abusive desecration of the First-Sale Doctrine
* no requirement to be online
* 30% better hardware capability
* $100 cheaper

If you buy an XBox Done you deserve a punch in the face and a kick in the nuts. Because every sale of that device is a letter to the entertainment industry that taking away our rights is OK so long as we can play the 40th-billion FPS game that was ever made.

I find it safe to say that anyone who buys an XBox Done over a PS4 not only deserves to be publicly mocked, but really needs to be - every person who buys an XBox Done has done a MASSIVE disservice to the rest of us.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Wow bias much?
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But to declare victory based on the specs is just silly.


The specs are frankly the least important of those items. Even if the specs were exactly the same, you're still a retard for buying an XBox Done.

And who gives a sh1t about the media center abilities? Like you don't have a dozen other things already that do the exact same things. None of those extra things have any value.


RE: Wow bias much?
By BRB29 on 6/11/2013 1:25:32 PM , Rating: 2
In this case, it looks like both are competing in the same space. They both use x86, same GPU, same CPU and same type of controllers. They are as close as you can get for 2 competing products.

That being said, specs are very important because they both do the same thing. The PS4 can do it faster and cheaper. The xbox have Kinect which is pretty cool when I used it.

In this discount era of time, money talks and price will most likely win since they are essentially almost identical products.


RE: Wow bias much?
By retrospooty on 6/11/2013 12:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
"* no abusive desecration of the First-Sale Doctrine
* no requirement to be online
* 30% better hardware capability
* $100 cheaper"

Exactly...

"If you buy an XBox Done you deserve a punch in the face and a kick in the nuts."


LOL... I dont know about that. If you are someone that uses Kinect alot, or one of the other features that Xbox has, then I could see it. But MS has made a huge mistake this time. The price can and will be modified, the hardware isnt a huge issue, but the DRM/online requirement will bite them in the arse. It's absolutely rediculous and it WILL stop a hell of alot of people from buying it over the PS4.

I really dont like Sony and would rather not buy anything from them, but it at the time of release, MS doesnt fix the used game policy, I am out. Sorry MS, bad choice by you.


RE: Wow bias much?
By GulWestfale on 6/11/2013 1:11:14 PM , Rating: 2
the PS4 is considerably more powerful and has considerably more memory bandwidth than the xbox one, so from a purely hardware point of view it is indeed better.

the terms of use are also much less restrictive on PS4.
on top of that, the xbox' kinect system spies on users. it sends data about their TV viewing habits (including the number of people in the room) to MS, which then presumably shares it with its content partners. this is quite literally big brother, right on your screen (or just slightly above it).

even if the xbox had the better hardware, i still wouldn't buy it simply because i am not a slave to MS or a media corporation (or any corporation, for that matter). and who is in my living room and when is entirely MY business, not bill gates'.


RE: Wow bias much?
By retrospooty on 6/11/2013 1:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... I am not sure if someone else posted this, but its a comical game sharing "how to" from Sony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA

Awesome. Short, sweet and makes a great point.


RE: Wow bias much?
By retrospooty on 6/11/2013 5:19:06 PM , Rating: 2
I was just thinking about this... Its really sad day when Microsoft is more hard-headed and disconnected from what users really want than Sony is. FFS... SONY?

I really feel like there is no-one at MS that actually sits down and think how things will affect end users and what people really want.


RE: Wow bias much?
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
on top of that, the xbox' kinect system spies on users. it sends data about their TV viewing habits (including the number of people in the room) to MS, which then presumably shares it with its content partners. this is quite literally big brother, right on your screen (or just slightly above it).


Good god, and you probably believe that the Fluoride int he water in America is so that the government can use mind control.

The difference in network traffic on my network has changed exactly 0.000% from when I didn't have a kinect, to when I did. How exactly is it sending any information if it isn't transmitting it over my network?

The "amount of people in the room" was a patent application, not an actual function. Go read the inquirer article again, this time, without letting your emotions rise up and throttle your higher brain functions.


RE: Wow bias much?
By BZDTemp on 6/11/2013 1:09:10 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
30% better hardware capability


Actually it's 50% better when using the XBOX as the base (1.23*1.5=1.845) or 33% if the PS4 is the base.

That is of course looking at the TFLOPS only, but it sure gotta hurt at Redmond seeing those numbers.


RE: Wow bias much?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2013 1:19:24 PM , Rating: 1
Time will tell what the true difference is. Yes the PS4 will be capable of better graphics at a higher framerate. That's not what makes great games though.

Both consoles will have good games. The PS4 just has the ability for them to be prettier. Honestly graphics are already largely good enough. I just want more things on screen, better physics, etc. Yes it takes GPU power to do the former. The latter is still largely accomplished by the CPU and both are roughly equivalent there.

Ultimately, the next 12 months will be exciting for gaming. Microsoft showed some pretty cool exclusives. Sony did as well. Then there's the independent titles like AC4 and Destiny which look amazing (especially Destiny).


RE: Wow bias much?
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:26:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes the PS4 will be capable of better graphics at a higher framerate. That's not what makes great games though.


So true, GAMEPLAY is what makes a better game.

Honestly, looking at both conferences, based on Ryse, and Forza, and Halo, and the MGS videos they showed(all of which except halo was in engine, and showed gameplay) the graphics on the One are currently better looking, if that really means anything. I mean, they were damn near live action looking on the One, everything Sony showed was very cartoony.

so if thats the only thing you base winning on, then at the moment, from evidence, Xbox One wins.

Price wise, PS4 wins.

Games wise, well, we don't know do we? We know of 15 exclusives for Xbox One, 7 new franchises, but Sony didn't really mention theirs. Note: In terms of console exclusives, neither company has counted a game that is only on their console and on the computer as a non exclusive game. They only count em as non exclusive if they are on two or more consoles.
This one? Depending on which exclusives you want, either could win, I call it a Draw.

Controller wise, I personally like the Xbox controllers, since I have what I like to think are average size hands, and the Sony controllers are too small, and give me cramps. On top of that, Xbox games are very standardized as concerns controller layouts, whereas in my experience, PS layouts are all over the place, you might have a trigger(r2) for shooting a gun/attacking in one game, the bumper(r1) in another, and x in another. Not to mention all the rest of the buttons could be completely randomized game to game.
So in that category, for me at least, Xbox wins.

for the current generation, PS3 seemed to be all about semi-interactive movies, which, if you like em, is great, but me personally, I want to spend more time PLAYING and less time watching my games.
In that category, to me, Xbox Wins.

Voice/gesture functionality through the Kinect is hit or miss, depending on what volume you have the game at,and the light levels in the room. but voice/gesture functionality on the PS3 even with Eye Toy is damn near nonexistent. Maybe this will get better in the next generation, but I see it getting MUCH better for the Xbox One much faster, as Kinect is now a standard component(meaning everyone who buys an Xbox One will have one) as opposed to an add on that only the most hardcore gotta have everything types will own on the PS4.
for voice/gesture capability, Xbox wins this one, but it's not a huge feature yet, so to me, not that important.

Media capability. Basically, Sony has said "Look, it's the PS3 version 2!" which means that yes, some media capability is there, but it wasn't very useful with my current setup on my PS3, and they Didn't talk about any improvements to it for the PS4. Xbox360 however, integrates quite well with my network(media extender for my Server, allows it to view TV over my network due to the networked tuners attached to the server, and read movies/music off the server directly) Xbox One is announced to improve upon these capabilities immensely.
Xbox wins here

Honestly, only time is going to tell who "wins" because no matter how many things I or anyone else compares on the system, there will always be people who bring something up we missed or didn't care about(like the TFLOPS, which, considering the PS3 was SOOO much better in terms of raw power, didn't make a crap worth of difference to anyone, cause really, most games are/were 720p and upscaled on both consoles, the 360 just did it better for some reason)


RE: Wow bias much?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2013 1:13:38 PM , Rating: 2
I plan to get both systems. Why? Because both will have exclusives for games I want to play. I will likely get the PS4 first though.

Feel free to try and punch me in the face or kick me in the nuts.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 1:24:24 PM , Rating: 1
You'd deserve it.

People need to think about what the f%ck they're doing.

Buying an XBox Done is sending a message, loud and clear, to the industry that our rights aren't important and we're OK with them trampling all over them.

I said above it's a sociopathic thing to do...and it is. Every XBO sale is a massive disservice to the gaming community worldwide. Because *you're* the one setting the precedent that your rights as a consumer are so unimportant that you'll pay MS to take them away.

Full. Retard.


RE: Wow bias much?
By FITCamaro on 6/12/2013 10:11:38 AM , Rating: 2
The only rights I have to a product I purchase when software is concerned are those that the seller gives me. Buying software doesn't mean you own it. You are licensing it in accordance with the terms of service and use that they provide. If I don't like them, then I won't buy it.

It is not Microsoft's terms that will stop me from trading or selling a game I bought. It will be the company I bought it from. As far as selling, I never sell games so that is of little concern. I care about being able to take the game to a friends house. I almost always log into my Xbox Live profile when I do, so again, usually minimal impact. But I do like the ability to.

Feel free to continue your rant though. What's amazing is you are speaking less about the Kinect being required than you are about the used game part. That is the part I care more about. And I am largely reserving my judgement on that until the console actually launches as we won't really know the real deal on that until that time. I don't plan to buy one day 1 anyway so I can figure out what the deal is on it. If it has to be connected all the time and is shown to not be turned off when I say it should be, then yes, I won't buy one. If it can be fully disabled and is proven to be (you know there will be people checking), then I'll buy one.


RE: Wow bias much?
By BZDTemp on 6/12/2013 4:49:01 AM , Rating: 2
LOL

I may end up also getting both (and maintaining a high end gaming PC), but I will definitely be getting the PS4 before the XBOX and it could also go the way of not getting it at all.

I have both the current generation consoles, but only the PS3 is really getting any use over the last couple of years and whit all the new amazing games coming to the PS3 it is likely to keep being the case.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Gurthang on 6/11/2013 3:06:30 PM , Rating: 2
Meh.. you do realize that in legal terms that unless you wrote it yourself you can't "own" software. You own a license to use the software. The contract you agree to when you open the box or click accept limits what you can and can't do with that license. (almost all have provisions against resale) It has been thus and will always be thus.

Microsoft here has messed up royaly with this DRM scheme. IMHO it should have been whoever owns the disk can play the game and that the game can work from you account without the disk so long as you are connected and nobody else is using your disk. I think an option for continuing to play without the disk should be availible but then typical Steam like DRM rules should apply.

Online requirements have been a part of games for a long time, the console itself requiring it is new though for me at least it really depends on what I am getting for it. Hondestly I find this more of a PR fail as MS should have given a demonstration on just what cloud compute can do for the XB1.

30% may make a differience or may make none whatsoever at this point who knows there are too many differiences in the platforms for a raw number comparison to be useful. I am sure at some point someone will make a cross platform game where you can really tell but until then meh...

$100 cheaper... this one will kill the XB1 more than DRM or the PS4 pushing slightly more polygons. I have no idea what crack they were smoking when they thought $500 is acceptible.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:03:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Meh.. you do realize that in legal terms that unless you wrote it yourself you can't "own" software. You own a license to use the software. The contract you agree to when you open the box or click accept limits what you can and can't do with that license. (almost all have provisions against resale) It has been thus and will always be thus.


Nope. In fact there's legal precedent for any such clauses in a contract being null and void specifically because they violate the First-Sale Doctrine.

Same thing for music CDs. Video tapes...DVDs...Blu-Rays...so on and so forth.

Would it be OK with you if you bought a new house from a builder today, and then sold it five years from now...only to get a letter from the builder demanding 10% of your sale price? Or for you car? Your fridge? Your...anything?

Sorry pal. Supporting the XBO is nothing less than undermining one of the most important pillars of our economy.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Gurthang on 6/11/2013 6:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong, sorry... software, music, and i believe other media like movies have explicit exceptions in the law and that according to the 9th circuit corts all they have to do is indicate that the media is a license somewhere on the package and bam! you are a licenseee and not a owner and not protected by first sale and thus contractually obgligated by whatever reasonable terms the holder placed on the work.
http://www.stanfordlawreview.org/online/kirtsaeng-...

First sale about limits on copyrighted works, most of your examples are not. However to take this to it's illogical conclusion. Lets say it was possible to copyright the design of a house and you bought a house like that and then because you owned a construction company decided you would make money by selling copies of that house. First sale would only protect you if you sold the copy you bought from the holder, but the copyright holder would be able to sue you over the sale of the copies you made without permission.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 6:45:28 PM , Rating: 2
Nope - hence the massive number of CD, movie, and software resale stores all across this nation like Gamestop, Second Spin, and even the Used section of XBox and other games at Micro Center.

Sorry that reality doesn't agree with your assertion. And at no point was I talking about making copies of anything...I'm talking about selling the original copy of the product.


RE: Wow bias much?
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:32:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft here has messed up royaly with this DRM scheme. IMHO it should have been whoever owns the disk can play the game and that the game can work from you account without the disk so long as you are connected and nobody else is using your disk


Well, it's more "Whoever buys the game, installs the disc and ties it to their account can play it anytime they want, with or without the disc, anywhere they go, and one of their ten designated "Family" members can play it at the same time as the original owner anytime another "Family" member isn't playing it.

The kinect thing doesn't bother me because, as I've said earlier here,
a. you can turn it off

b. if you are really that paranoid, point it at the wall, ot put a towel over it/stick it in a drawer. It only needs to be connected, NOT on or "watching you"

c. (this COULD change but I doubt it, and if it does, see "b") My network traffic has not changed from before I owned my kinect(there are actually two in my house)to after I bought one. I simply opted out of everything there was to opt out that said "Send "xxx" from Kinect to "xxx".


RE: Wow bias much?
By Ammohunt on 6/11/2013 11:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Got SKYPE??? X-Box one does and so do millions of other people and it recently went HD.


This is mostly fluff i don't browse the web on my console why would i skype?

quote:
Kinect??? - Ask anyone who plays Dance Central or Just Dance if they like Kinect.


Kinect is very cool but not enough for me to purchase another console. Microsoft is also smartly going to release a PC version of the kinect so that Xbox One exclusivity would be questionable.

quote:
Wanna get rid of that ancient Cable Box? X-Box One looks to be getting exclusive channel streaming app like Roku where you dont need the cable box.


Got rid of that long ago don't want to reinvest yet again in another streaming device.

quote:
If you want a Game Console get a PS4 if you want a Game Console/Entertainment center get an X-Box one.


If i were in the market for a console i would want it to provide a better gaming experience than my PC. Other than fighting games that hasn't been the case in over a decade.


RE: Wow bias much?
By othercents on 6/11/2013 12:38:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Kinect is very cool but not enough for me to purchase another console. Microsoft is also smartly going to release a PC version of the kinect so that Xbox One exclusivity would be questionable.


Same here... I have connect on my Xbox 360 and is very great device especially for my children, however not sure if the Kinect on the Xbox One is worth the loss of game titles I have purchased and the restrictions. At this point I would have to repurchase every game and find a privacy filter for the camera (IE. paper bag).


RE: Wow bias much?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 12:58:14 PM , Rating: 2
I have an HTPC and controlling/updating it is an issue from time to time so Skype in the living room through the X-Box One will be simplified. Not everyone wants to skype sitting behind their PC. Skype on the X-Box one in the living room is much more interactive and much more attractive to me.

My wife and kids love kinect and its a lot of fun at parties with friends over the local kids have dance parties as well.

The TV abilities of the X-Box one have to be seen to be appreciated its not simply a media streamer. Its way beyond that.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Ammohunt on 6/11/2013 2:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
After the newness wore off the xbox in our house gathers dust mostly. We consume iTunes media and Netflix via AppleTV so the Xbox one doesn't add much. My kids have their own ipads so they can stream and facetime remote family members wherever they want. A centralized total media configuration is a dated concept in my house.

What i really need more is a private home cloud solution that would act as an intermediary between select cloud, streaming and remote backup services for purposes of caching and provide onsite backups i.e. what WHS should have been.


RE: Wow bias much?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 2:47:18 PM , Rating: 2
Nice and yes the latest WHS was disappointing or should I say the LAST WHS because I think its discontinued.

I still have a lot on divx and retro consoles where HD quality is not necessary.


RE: Wow bias much?
By EasyC on 6/11/2013 12:25:17 PM , Rating: 3
I think you're stretching a lot in your point. A majority of people don't want to spend 500$ on something they can easily get for cheaper.

Yea kinect is great for Dance Central and Just Dance, but what else? Anyone? No? Guys...?

NFL Exclusive? I was actually just searching for NFL fantasy football sites online.... they are so hard to find.

Get rid of the cable box? Really? I watch 2 things. Sports and HGTV (guilty pleasure). Neither would ever get streamed because the networks are too greedy. Their little slingbox without the actual sling interface is half assed.

If you want to game, get a PC. If you want a game console, get a PS4. If you want a game console/entertainment, build an HTPC with decent graphics. The XB1 is a flop in it's current form and doesn't really have an identity. It tries to be both, but is mediocre at best... all while being MORE expensive.


RE: Wow bias much?
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yea kinect is great for Dance Central and Just Dance, but what else? Anyone? No? Guys...?


Gunstringer, Star Wars Kinect, Kinect Party, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, Wreckateer, Kinect Joy Ride, Zumba, Sorry, you looked like you were having trouble remembering titles, so I gave you a few off the top of my head :)

The Kinect is just an add-on for the 360, name an add-on that ever got mainstream focus on a console. Go Ahead, I'll wait...
...
...
...
Oh, you can't? huh, imagine that, game companies don't wanna spend money developing for something that not everyone on the platform has.

If you can't follow the next part of my argument without me even saying it, don't bother to reply.


Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/2013 12:48:30 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah go ahead and rate me down for making too much sense without actually arguing One vs. ps4 lol the people, and especially writers, on this site are just tools.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 1:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
There are a lot of people so focused on the SPECS and DRM that anyone who likes the X-Box One for whatever reason must be destroyed.

This might be the motivation I need to kick up my old tech site from the dead.


RE: Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/2013 1:16:29 PM , Rating: 2
The thing is I never said I liked one or the other I was just comparing pricing to th current gen lol, but like I said a bunch of tools.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 2:05:34 PM , Rating: 2
Me neither in fact I plan on owning both. But since I plan on owning an X-Box One and I pointed out the other options omitted in the comparison of the console beyond gaming there is hell to pay for my posts. Mix in Fud and Anti-Microsoft sentiment and the abilities of the X-Box one are lost.

Amazing how everyone completely forgot the way Sony works. Hey Linux is supported on PS3, Yes the PS3 is Backwards Compatible. How did those work out?

6-12 months after people buy a PS4 Sony will do some DRM content thing but it will be too late but Microsoft will catch hell for being up front about it.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 3:38:37 PM , Rating: 2
F%ck you and your "stuff that was omitted" BS.

Buying an XBox Done SCREWS ALL OF US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Stop f%cking ignoring that. NOTHING about the XBO matters *in the slightest* other than that. If the XBO washed your car, cured cancer, and shat gold eggs it still would be a massive social disservice to buy one.

Read that f%cking article. Learn what the First-Sale Doctrine is. And then come back and tell us how it's a good idea to support any product or any company that would have anything to do with molesting the First-Sale Doctrine.

You're such a pathetic tool.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 4:18:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think I will buy two of them now and several for relatives as X-Mas presents so we can all Skype together.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 4:21:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have no problem believing you are so staggeringly stupid as to do exactly that.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2013 8:00:56 PM , Rating: 2
You don't seem to put this much energy into Steam games sales so I suspect Bias toward Microsoft.


RE: Not expensive at all
By Motoman on 6/11/2013 8:20:44 PM , Rating: 2
Steam games are another matter entirely.

In the USA, as opposed to other (potentially more civilized) parts of the world, like Europe, digital downloads are *not* protected under First-Sale rights.

Europe is far more on the ball than the US is on this matter. One can hope that time will tell if the US catches up.

Aside from the fact that tens of millions of Americans have no access to reliable broadband, and therefore Steam (and all download/streaming things) is a non-starter for them, I don't like Steam precisely because those games you pay for are not protected under First-Sale.

But...it is what it is, and it is totally separate from the physical media model followed by consoles...and CDs, DVDs, etc.


RE: Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/2013 11:57:43 PM , Rating: 2
LOL HAHA WOW..... Take a chill pill... Breath in... Now exhale...
It's just a freaking entertainment console! I am a consumer, I am not trying to fight the system of protect any doctrine, unless of course that was the object of the game on my console. I don't care about "all of you" I care about me and the product that best fits me and my needs and if that means buying an XBO then that's what I am going to do but those are my priorities, yours clearly isn't to just buy a video game console your objective is to also keep your current rights protect other gamers as well etc etc. google glass right now doesn't allow you to even let someone borrow them let alone sell or give them away but if you don't like that then don't buy them but others don't care.

In the end I will say again I never said anything anti PS4 or pro XBO, I just made a price and feature comparison to the current gen 360 and how it isn't more expensive.


RE: Not expensive at all
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:44:19 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Amazing how everyone completely forgot the way Sony works. Hey Linux is supported on PS3, Yes the PS3 is Backwards Compatible. How did those work out?


Or the one I love, that nearly cost me in excess of 10k. "We're sorry, SOE online services are down due to server issues, please bear with us" << we read that for nearly a month waiting for the EQ2 servers to come back up.

Then the bank called, someone was trying to access the credit card we used only for SOny, (Everquest 1, 2, and PSN subscriptions) and attempting to BUY A F***ING CAR WITH IT IN FRANCE.
After some research, we found out that not only had Sony been hacked, and a SH*TLOAD of credit card and Identity information been stolen, but they were lying to us straight out. Called customer service, "No sir, this is just an outage, no credit card information was stolen"

And you people bitch about Microsoft being upfront about the fact that they believe the console industry is going "all digital"(as in, discless)?


RE: Not expensive at all
By xti on 6/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/2013 1:25:46 PM , Rating: 2
I think you replied to the wrong post I didn't mention anything about used games.


RE: Not expensive at all
By xti on 6/11/2013 1:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
kinda, you were talking about cost.


RE: Not expensive at all
By BillyBatson on 6/11/2013 1:41:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I was saying the system isn't expensive not the other way around, try reading my post again.


RE: Not expensive at all
By xti on 6/14/2013 1:44:49 PM , Rating: 2
...im also saying its all chump change.


processing power
By NeoReaper on 6/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: processing power
By Dribble on 6/11/2013 12:44:32 PM , Rating: 2
What will actually happen is they will make all the games for the xbox 360 as both platforms are near identical other then gpu size, then they'll turn on extra fluff for PS4. So expect prettier explosions and slightly cleaner shadows - nothing major.

The lower graphics isn't the killer minus for me, it's the no used games since I buy a lot of games for kids second hand off ebay.


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 1:17:05 PM , Rating: 2
This is actually a little less likely than you might think. One method that's used for scaling is to build a "full version" and then cut it down until it runs well on lesser configurations.

What you're thinking of is the bottom-up method of first making sure the product runs on the "least common denominator" and then piling on premium features after the fact, which is only necessary when there's a giant and varying gap between the top and the bottom (PC).

That is not the case here. What we have here is similar to a PC game being made for only two video cards -- a $100 card and a $180 card. Just imagine how you think the development of that game would go. Oh, and I forgot to mention the $180 card is slightly easier to develop for in this metaphor.

PROTIP: The "least common denominator" development platform target is a myth.


RE: processing power
By Dribble on 6/11/2013 1:32:12 PM , Rating: 2
Don't agree - the platforms are near identical - same cpu/memory/etc - all that's different is one can push a few more polygons. They'll build it for a single platform but just have 2 graphics settings.

Most companies will use a 3rd party engine that allows them to develop it once and then automatically spit out a version for each platform at minimal cost.

All the PS4 will have is slightly nicer fluff - they won't do anything game changing with a little extra gpu grunt - and that will mostly be there for fanboy bragging rights. I bet joe average console gamer won't notice or care.


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 2:17:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They'll build it for a single platform but just have 2 graphics settings.
This is exactly my point. Have you seen the difference graphics settings can make??


RE: processing power
By NeoReaper on 6/11/2013 2:27:09 PM , Rating: 2
sorry, i agree with dribble because 2 underpowered graphics cards will look about the same. if one card was considered powerful enough and one was underpowered i would agree with you but if ur basically telling me buying a budget videocard overclocked by the board manufacturer is gonna make my games look way better which simply isnt the case.


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 2:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Are you saying the HD 7850 is underpowered? Because the GPU in the PS3 is more powerful than that before you consider the 7GB of usable VRAM and the console customization/efficiency advantage. Bottom line is I don't think you really realize what's going on here.


RE: processing power
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 3:09:38 PM , Rating: 2
Wait what? Perhaps you need to use more words, because it sounded like you're saying the GPU in the PS3 is more powerful than a 7850?


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 3:24:08 PM , Rating: 2
*PS4


RE: processing power
By NeoReaper on 6/11/2013 3:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
all reports ive read stated that the new consoles graphics would be based on GCN which is nothing more than an overall graphics architecture. i dont remember reading any actual specifications stating it would be more powerful than a radeon hd 7850. for what its worth though, a radeon hd 7850 might be considered acceptable for todays basic gamer needs but would be underpowered in the long run for 1080p gaming and beyond. so yes, i guess it is underpowered. there is also very little evidence that having 7gb of usable vram would translate into any appreciable performance gains because if it mattered that much why dont we see 7gb of dedicated graphics on highend GPUs for PCs?


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 3:29:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
i dont remember reading any actual specifications stating it would be more powerful than a radeon hd 7850.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/70...

playstation.com/ps4/?

quote:
a radeon hd 7850 might be considered acceptable for todays basic gamer needs but would be underpowered in the long run for 1080p gaming and beyond.
Let's be honest with ourselves here. Talk to be about "the long run" on Friday when The Last of Us comes out on 2006 hardware looking like complete and utter sex.

If you think you can't game 1080p on a 7850 you're a loon. And, again, the PS4 is faster than that, before you consider how "the long run" works for consoles.


RE: processing power
By NeoReaper on 6/11/2013 3:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
umm, i dont know what ur trying to link me to... the AMD link shows me the marketing info to the 7850 which is fairly useless to me since i already know them and the PS4 page says that the graphics are based on AMD GCN which doesnt tell me anything specific either...

now ur next comment, i really dont care about the "last of us" and i dont wanna comment on what you think looks like "utter sex" but i guess i can tell you that it looks fine for PS3.

i guess your not much of a PC gamer if u think that the 7850 is a great card for 1080p gaming. there are very few modern games that can be set to max quality on the 7850 at that resolution. so for the millionth time, if neither system is fast enough to begin with, then you need other redeeming qualities to make your console better in "the long run".


RE: processing power
By karimtemple on 6/11/2013 4:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
I play everything on my PC. At 1080p. On a Radeon HD 7870. There are precious few games that I can't set to Max.

Since you couldn't be bothered to click one time on "Specifications" I'll help you:

7850: 1024 Stream processors, 153.6GB/s max memory bandwidth
PS4: 1152 Stream processors, 176GB/s max memory bandwidth

It's not night and day, but as I've repeatedly said, it is more. And once again, there are customization and efficiency advantages for consoles that you have to take into account on top of that. Bottom line is the PS4 can render 1080p games just fine.


RE: processing power
By NeoReaper on 6/11/2013 4:36:43 PM , Rating: 2
well, the 7870 does trump the 7850 by a bit more than the specification differences of the 7850 and the ps4 that you provided for me. i want to apologize as i wasnt sure what i was supposed to be looking for from ur links. i was actually hoping to see core speeds and such since i dont know how i would compare them based on stream processors and max memory bandwidth alone...

i dont doubt that you can game at 1080p on ur 7870 but 7850 would be more troublesome and as for the "customization and efficiency" advantages, that usually takes some time to achieve. if you want to talk about game development kits, Microsoft did a better job last gen so it would be safer to assume it would be this way this gen as well, although only time will tell.


RE: processing power
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2013 4:14:36 PM , Rating: 2
When considering the next gen consoles have roughly 5 times the power of the current gen, I'm sure their hardware choices will work out fine.

PC gaming is all about brute force, the games are never tweaked as much as they are with consoles due to the fact the developers don't know exactly what hardware you will have in your PC.


RE: processing power
By nikon133 on 6/11/2013 4:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think you can judge consoles gaming performance based on included hardware from PC gaming point of view. Looking that way, PS3 and X360 should not have even remotely good looking games as they do, based on 256MB of system and 256MB of graphics RAM and 6+ years old graphics - and yet they do, if you consider Uncharted, Forza, Gran Tourismo, God of War, Halo titles... and many more.

There is tremendous level of optimization that goes into number of console titles that PC, unfortunately, can only dream of - and I'm telling this as both PC and console gamer. I have no doubt that premium exclusives for both consoles will stand against comparable PC games running on highest PC configurations, and that will stay true for a few years, IMHO.


RE: processing power
By inighthawki on 6/11/2013 3:50:34 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The lower graphics isn't the killer minus for me, it's the no used games since I buy a lot of games for kids second hand off ebay.

A lot of people who bring up the used games argument seem to be ignoring the possibility that the digital market can be advantageous. Sure you may not be able to buy a used copy off ebay, but with digital sales, the developers earn a larger portion of the income, which drives them to offer a larger number of sales. Steam is a great example. I have seen AAA games go on sale a mere month after release for 50% off (and not just because they suck or aren't selling well).

While there is a risk that it will backfire, you should really entertain the idea of this possibility. You may be surprised to see cheaper games with more sales, which will nullify the need for used games on the platform.


RE: processing power
By MindParadox on 6/18/2013 4:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The lower graphics isn't the killer minus for me, it's the no used games since I buy a lot of games for kids second hand off ebay.


Do a bit of reading, about the whole "Family" thing on Xbox One. You know, where you buy a game, and you can play it anytime, and so can anyone on your console, with all the privileges of Xbox Live(if you have it), but ALSO any one of your TEN designated "Family" members can play the game as well at any time, even when you are playing it.

That's a hell of a lot cheaper than having to buy multiple copies. Plus, you might wanna look into XBLA, or PSN whatever they call their version of Arcade, for games that are 15 bucks or less new