backtop


Print 37 comment(s) - last by sprockkets.. on Dec 30 at 9:23 PM

Leaked roadmap shows two major Windows Phone releases coming shortly

It looks like 2012 will be an interesting year for Windows Phone.  A leaked slide deck offers the first tidbits about Microsoft Corp's (MSFT) launch plans for 2012 -- a year some are billing as a make it or break it year for Microsoft.

Windows Phone (WP) 7.5 Mango is still relatively new on the market, but Microsoft is already cooking up its successor (or perhaps counterpart) dubbed Tango.  Set to launch in Q2 2011, Tango will bring the Mango experience to lower-priced budget smartphones.  

Microsoft has been pretty strict thus far about its hardware specifications (e.g. requiring a 1 GHz CPU), so it should be interesting to see if lower end hardware can keep pace.  Windows Phone is perhaps the most fluid operating system on the market today, in terms of animations, when navigating the core menus interface.  If the budget hardware indeed makes the WP experience clunkier, it should be interesting how much that cripples the UI experience.

Windows Phone roadmap
[Image Source: WMPoweruser.com]

Tango is likely heavily crafted with Microsoft's premium partner Nokia Oyj. (HEL:NOK1V) in mind.  While Nokia has struggled in the U.S., it has flourished with budget handsets in other very large markets like China.  Nokia has promised to transition all of its smartphone lineup to the Windows Phone platform.  In order to get its budget handsets onboard with that plan, WP Tango will be necessary.

For WP fans, the more exciting launch will likely be the Q4 2012 "Apollo".  Perhaps the rumored Windows Phone 8, Apollo will bring support for "super phones" (think LTE, large HD screens, dual-core CPUs, and more).  While some Windows Phones (think the HTC Titan) have offered more of a premium hardware experience, they still trail Android models in CPU speed (less noticeable) and screen resolution (more noticeable).

Samsung Galaxy S II
Next year Windows Phone will finally get the kind of gorgeous HD, super-smartphones that Android users have long enjoyed.

The slide also indicates it will improve the business experience.

Microsoft's slide also indicates that a key objective of Apollo is to "increase overall volume".  Well, duh -- even the typically enthusiastic Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has said that Windows Phone sales have been "very low".  With Nokia's transition to WP, Microsoft will instantly gain a large international market share, but it will need to push hard to win over the U.S. market, which is currently being dominated by a Google Inc. (GOOG) Android and Apple, Inc. (AAPL) iPhone duopoly.

While its success is uncertain, Microsoft continues to pour money into the mobile space and cook up novel product -- from an operating system perspective, if not yet from a hardware perspective.  Thus it seems inevitable that sooner or later its effort will see at least modest success.  2012 will verily be an exciting year for WP fans.

Source: WMPoweruser



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Hardware
By arnold123 on 12/28/2011 7:17:15 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
While some Windows Phones (think the HTC Titan) have offered more of a premium hardware experience, they still trail Android models in CPU speed (less noticeable) and screen resolution (more noticeable)


I don't know where you got that from but
both Samsung Galaxy s2 (Android) and Samsung focus S (WP7) have same screen resolution. As for processors i don't care if u have dual core or quad core , the point is WP7 runs way smoother than android and the upside of having a single core is much better battery life than android.




RE: Hardware
By shabby on 12/28/2011 8:32:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the upside of having a single core is much better battery life than android.


Not really, my sgs2 has much better battery life than my sgs1, it has a bigger screen and much faster gpu to boot. The asus prime tablet has similar battery life compared to its tegra2 tablets and it has 2(actually 3) extra cores.


RE: Hardware
By arnold123 on 12/28/2011 11:30:50 PM , Rating: 2
I am comparing Samsung focus S to SG2.


RE: Hardware
By B3an on 12/29/2011 2:40:29 AM , Rating: 2
While WP7 is definitely the smoothest and IMO the most polished phone OS around, it does need dual-core CPU's and better hardware. The early adopters of new stuff like this are usually people like me as well that are interested in both hardware and software, and WP7 has the software side covered but not the hardware. I want a premium high-end phone with hardware to match. And dual-core CPU's dont use more battery power. Even the quad-core Tegra 3 lasts longer on battery than current dual-core CPU's. More cores dont mean worse battery performance.


RE: Hardware
By NellyFromMA on 12/29/2011 9:23:05 AM , Rating: 4
Why does it need more cores? You just stated it runs fluidly? If it never feels slow, why would it NEED better hardware, screens and battery aside.

It amazes me that there are a group of people that simply want better on their phones JUST for the sake of saying 'my phone is faster than yours'. It makes no sense.

Basically, your stating that you just want to have something that is cutting edge. Not feels cutting edge, because you basically state the system already feels that way, you just want a badge to wear....

-_-


RE: Hardware
By Arsynic on 12/29/2011 2:48:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While WP7 is definitely the smoothest and IMO the most polished phone OS around, it does need dual-core CPU's and better hardware.

The fuck? You're a walking contradiction. If it's already smooth, why does it need a dual core processor? You sound like a Android fanboy or a Verizon executive where every new phone has to be a dick measuring contest. Fuck usability and performance, paper specs is where it's at.

What WP7 needs is expandable storage and a FFC. How could MS buy Skype and not offer FFC on it's phones.


RE: Hardware
By jonmcc33 on 12/30/2011 12:00:25 PM , Rating: 2
I have an HTC Arrive. Not sure why you think WP7 needs a dual core. It operates quite smoothly on a single core and is very responsive. There's just no need for all that power on a phone. A tablet is another story.


RE: Hardware
By JasonMick (blog) on 12/28/2011 8:38:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't know where you got that from but
both Samsung Galaxy s2 (Android) and Samsung focus S (WP7) have same screen resolution. As for processors i don't care if u have dual core or quad core , the point is WP7 runs way smoother than android and the upside of having a single core is much better battery life than android.

The original Galaxy S II does, but the new premium Galaxy S II HD (the flagship model) packs an HD display, as does the repackaged Galaxy Nexus.

The old standard is 480x800, but Samsung's and HTC's flagship phones have moved to 720x1280 for Android. (Motorola's high res ones are 540x960, if I recall correctly...)

There is quite a noticeable difference between the HD screens and WP7's lower res ones....


RE: Hardware
By Mitch101 on 12/28/2011 10:27:22 PM , Rating: 2
Does the USB port finally work? Everyone I know with a Android Samsung device almost every model has a horror story about the USB port and trying to sync using Kies they all have given up trying to use the USB sync and every month they have to pull the battery because of the black screen issue.

Tried posting the links but filter says spam.

I'm speaking from personal experience too any Samsung Android phone is problematic. Great specs but epic fail on sync and stability.


RE: Hardware
By sprockkets on 12/28/2011 10:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
Why would you need to sync via USB anyhow???


RE: Hardware
By Mitch101 on 12/28/2011 10:53:34 PM , Rating: 2
Contacts, Pictures, Podcasts, Music, etc because not everyone wants to pull the cover and memory card when there is a USB port. Wifi sync is no fun either on the Samsung devices.


RE: Hardware
By sprockkets on 12/29/2011 12:11:56 AM , Rating: 1
Oh, well that isn't sync I guess, just moving over info, and yeah, that helps.


RE: Hardware
By Samus on 12/29/2011 12:15:32 AM , Rating: 2
I have a HP Veer (no USB, no headphone jack, no plugs at all) which charges from a Touchstone and sync's via Wifi. Being 802.11n, like most modern smartphones, it syncs at 2-3MB/second. Conservatively, that's 5 seconds/song, or an entire album in under a minute.

So really, what's the advantage of a USB cable? It might be 50% faster, but it takes 500% longer to connect. You have a wireless phone, get rid of the damn wires already.


RE: Hardware
By Mitch101 on 12/29/2011 12:27:22 AM , Rating: 2
Google Samsung Galaxy USB problems and youll know what I mean. Helps if the computer can find the device on the USB.


RE: Hardware
By arnold123 on 12/29/2011 12:02:57 AM , Rating: 2
I totally agree man. But I am comparing SG2 to with focus S.. Of course its not a fair comparison when u compare a newer phone with something 3 months old. You know how fast things move today. I agree though Android gets the latest and greatest hardware before WP does and that's because they sell 1000x more than WP phone , but then they take the same hardware minus one core and some ram with WP7 on it to sell to WP fans.


RE: Hardware
By DanNeely on 12/28/2011 9:02:54 PM , Rating: 2
800x480 is the only resolution available on WP7/7.5. While some high end Android phones are stilllaunching with it, it's increasingly becoming a budget only resolution with most higher end phones running 960x540, or 1280x720. One big phones 35% or 140% more pixels give a major aliasing reduction.


"Superphones" is an odd statement
By Labotomizer on 12/28/2011 7:45:49 PM , Rating: 5
First, Mango supports LTE. The problem is the OEMs can't deliver an LTE phone that meets Microsoft's battery life requirements. I was in the VZW store last week getting my wife a phone for Christmas and the salesman was explaining to a couple who were buying two Bionics that if they left LTE turned on they could expect about 6 hours of battery life. That's just not going to cut it, I need my phone to make it at least 10 hours without being charged. And I don't want to have to fiddle with radio settings to get it there. That's why WP handsets don't currently have LTE.

And then there's the whole dual core ordeal. Why do you need a dual core smartphone? The only reason you need it with Android is because the OS is so poorly optimized that the dual core helps smooth it out but not all that well. A Droid Razr still feels clunkier than my 1Ghz Trophy that matches the specs of a Droid 2. So I'm not seeing the benefit. Not to mention do you think the average user goes into the store and says "I need a phone with dual core and more GigaHertzes"? No, they don't and they don't care. They go with the Android because that's what salespeople push and the commercials are cool. They go with Apple because it's Apple and they think it's automatically awesome.

Microsoft needs to get a bit more variety, but not too much, on the handset side and they need to get the OEMs to offer better incentives to the salespeople at the stores. That's the most important part. If you walk into a VZW store today and ask for a Windows Phone they will do everything they can to get you to buy an Android. The worst part is they won't even do a fair comparison nor say here is the downside to Windows Phone, here is the downside to Android, here is the upside, etc. If they made the same amount of money on each WP sale I promise that would change.

Also MS should sponsor giving away WP handsets to the sales people. The one I bought my wife's iPhone from admitted he had never even used a Windows Phone. He said "They look kind of cool but I've never bothered to try it." Get it in their hands, give it to them free and throw in awesome incentives to get them to sell the product. Then you'll gain traction, then you'll gain word of mouth and they'll be in good shape.

I'll part with one thought though. 10 years ago MS entered the home console race and everyone thought they were nuts, thought they would fail. A year or so into the XBox's life it looked like the people who said it would fail were right. 10 years later and those people are eating crow. Just remember MS has the resources to stay in this for the long haul and 10 years from now non one will remember the WP slow start.




RE: "Superphones" is an odd statement
By sprockkets on 12/28/11, Rating: 0
By Labotomizer on 12/29/2011 8:39:31 AM , Rating: 2
I think you underestimate the power that salespeople have. That is the absolute number one problem WP7 has currently. If you go in and try to buy a Windows Phone the salespeople will try to steer you into something else. If you go in looking for a smart phone without naming a specific brand they won't even bother showing you a Windows Phone. They'll show you Android and iPhone. That's it. Until salespeople actually try to sell the platform then the rest of their marketing campaign won't do any good.

If I'm your average consumer and I walk into a phone store where I believe the salespeople are experts and I say "Hey, that Windows Phone looked cool, can I check it out?" and I get "Oh, you should check out the iPhone or this Android over here instead" I'm just going to go along with what they guide me to. After all, they're the "experts". MS needs to target the people in the stores first and foremost.


RE: "Superphones" is an odd statement
By Arsynic on 12/29/2011 2:59:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm also sure the iphone4S didn't need dual core processors either, but it has it, and it makes a difference in the ability to take video, photos, share wifi and browser performance.


*Scratches head*

Damn, DT has some of the thickest users I've ever seen who contradict themselves within the same sentence. If the 4S didn't need a dual core processor then Apple wouldn't have included one. If adding a dual core processor "makes a difference" in the things you stated, then by fuck, it was needed all along.

Explain to me why a WP7 single-core phone would need a dual core processor if it's just as fast as a 4S or Android phone? It's like saying a Ferrari needs to get a 600 HP engine to match the Mack truck's 600 HP engine even though a Ferrari smokes the Mack truck. The Mack truck needs the 600 HP engine to pull a trailer full of shit. The Android OS is basically a trailer full of shit.


By sprockkets on 12/30/2011 9:23:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
*Scratches head* Damn, DT has some of the thickest users I've ever seen who contradict themselves within the same sentence. If the 4S didn't need a dual core processor then Apple wouldn't have included one. If adding a dual core processor "makes a difference" in the things you stated, then by fck, it was needed all along.


It was sarcasm for the OP, duh.

quote:
Explain to me why a WP7 single-core phone would need a dual core processor if it's just as fast as a 4S or Android phone?


One reason why wp7 is so fluid is because they made the ui animations so slow. Ars states that as such on their review of the latest wp7 phone - android runs the gui at a higher rate.

quote:
It's like saying a Ferrari needs to get a 600 HP engine to match the Mack truck's 600 HP engine even though a Ferrari smokes the Mack truck. The Mack truck needs the 600 HP engine to pull a trailer full of sht. The Android OS is basically a trailer full of


Here's the problem with your analysis. I've already stated how a dual core processor helps with multi-tasking, the ability to and background operations, or stuff like taking fast photos, real time voice to text, something that WP7 didn't do from the outset(does it even do it now, can't remember). Having 2 cores do work at a lower freq is more efficient than a fast single core. It's like saying I'd rather have a good inline 6 cyl engine than a high reving honda s2000 that puts out 240 hp but at such a ridiculous rpm.

Btw, both iOS and wp7 get their smoothness from the gpu, something that was not fully implemented until android version 3.0, and then 4.0 for phones. You or I can spin this anyway you want - it either means both iOS and Wp7 are crap because they need to use both a GPU and CPU just to be useable and Android sucks for not doing that via the GPU but the CPU.


RE: "Superphones" is an odd statement
By Mitch101 on 12/28/2011 11:01:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yea I don't get that so many people love their X-Box 360, Windows 7 is probably the best OS ever from Microsoft sorry XP, but they don't trust Microsoft on a Phone?

First there were complaints about cut/paste and multitasking and now that 7.5 has them thats a moot point.

Then it was cry about the apps as if you need more than 60 apps all the primary must have apps exist for Windows Phone 7. They just passed 50,000 apps so people are starting to shut up about the lack of apps. Apparently developer support is growing for the device not declining.

The only thing anyone is complaining about are that it doesnt have dual or quad cores but it doesn't need it. The OS is so well written it flies with a single core. Technically its not entirely true the Windows Phone OS leverages the GPU for certain tasks so while its single core cpu its using the GPU for the things the GPU does better than a CPU. In a way Windows Phones are Dual core CPU/GPU which is why they are so smooth.

Space heck Cloud, Home Server, etc who needs more space? I dont need my entire MP3 collection but I have access to it even my movie collection. I have a home server my data is unlimited and I have 20gig in the cloud as well.

Anyone complaining about Windows Phone just hasn't tried using or knowing one to know any better.


By Labotomizer on 12/29/2011 8:43:38 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone has different tastes so I understand if someone doesn't like the interface. I love it but I don't expect everyone to think the way I do. To me that's the only valid complaint for the platform. If you don't like the interface and prefer and Win 3.x grid of icons or one of the various OEMs Android UIs then more power to you. But lack of dual core is a stupid complaint. Use the phone and you'll know what I mean.


By Arsynic on 12/29/2011 3:16:54 PM , Rating: 1
What Microsoft did with the original Xbox is opposite what they're doing with WP7. With the Xbox they targeted the core gamers who are techies and who will spend $300 on a machine with ten $60 games. At the time Xbox was cutting edge for a console: It had an Nvidia GPU, a 10/100 NIC for broadband Internet and a hard drive in the box. Today, those things are the basics needed for a game machine. This core audience provided a foundation on which the platform flourished early on. Then once it was established, MS went for the general, casual gaming audience helped by the word-of-mouth spread by the core gamers.

With WP7 Microsoft is trying to go after the budget market first. These people don't know shit about phones and will get whatever the sales rep recommends. They are continuing to do this. That's why Tango is coming out before Apollo. Microsoft needs to court the gadgeteers and the tech fanatics who love buzzwords like LTE, Dual Core, and megapixel. These are the types of people Verizon goes after: The techie with an appetite for the next cool thing and who has the disposable income to purchase a $300 phone every two years. Microsoft needs phones that fit Verizon's business model and Verizon will happily do commercials for Windows Phone and push its reps to push WP7.

This really confuses me since the Xbox and WP7 groups are under the same Microsoft E&D banner. Is the company THAT fucking big?


By TakinYourPoints on 12/30/2011 1:40:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
First, Mango supports LTE. The problem is the OEMs can't deliver an LTE phone that meets Microsoft's battery life requirements. I was in the VZW store last week getting my wife a phone for Christmas and the salesman was explaining to a couple who were buying two Bionics that if they left LTE turned on they could expect about 6 hours of battery life. That's just not going to cut it, I need my phone to make it at least 10 hours without being charged. And I don't want to have to fiddle with radio settings to get it there. That's why WP handsets don't currently have LTE.

And then there's the whole dual core ordeal. Why do you need a dual core smartphone? The only reason you need it with Android is because the OS is so poorly optimized that the dual core helps smooth it out but not all that well. A Droid Razr still feels clunkier than my 1Ghz Trophy that matches the specs of a Droid 2. So I'm not seeing the benefit. Not to mention do you think the average user goes into the store and says "I need a phone with dual core and more GigaHertzes"? No, they don't and they don't care. They go with the Android because that's what salespeople push and the commercials are cool. They go with Apple because it's Apple and they think it's automatically awesome.


Nailed it. WP7 and iPhone have skipped LTE for battery life concerns. More efficient LTE chipsets are coming from Qualcomm in 2012, we'll see them in those phones then.

Then there's the issue of specs. As you said, faster specs are needed with Android since the OS is such a pig compared to WP7 or iOS. Neckbeards still buy into spec sheets and give little thought to practical performance and user experience. Who cares about 1.5ghz dual cores when an old single core WP7 device gives much practically smoother performance, or when a 800mhz iPhone is both smoother and has faster benchmarks.

Some people miss the forest for the trees, it's the same as people who insisted that the Pentium 4 was worth buying over an Athlon 64 because OMG MEGAHERTZ


By TakinYourPoints on 12/30/2011 1:40:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
First, Mango supports LTE. The problem is the OEMs can't deliver an LTE phone that meets Microsoft's battery life requirements. I was in the VZW store last week getting my wife a phone for Christmas and the salesman was explaining to a couple who were buying two Bionics that if they left LTE turned on they could expect about 6 hours of battery life. That's just not going to cut it, I need my phone to make it at least 10 hours without being charged. And I don't want to have to fiddle with radio settings to get it there. That's why WP handsets don't currently have LTE.

And then there's the whole dual core ordeal. Why do you need a dual core smartphone? The only reason you need it with Android is because the OS is so poorly optimized that the dual core helps smooth it out but not all that well. A Droid Razr still feels clunkier than my 1Ghz Trophy that matches the specs of a Droid 2. So I'm not seeing the benefit. Not to mention do you think the average user goes into the store and says "I need a phone with dual core and more GigaHertzes"? No, they don't and they don't care. They go with the Android because that's what salespeople push and the commercials are cool. They go with Apple because it's Apple and they think it's automatically awesome.


Nailed it. WP7 and iPhone have skipped LTE for battery life concerns. More efficient LTE chipsets are coming from Qualcomm in 2012, we'll see them in those phones then.

Then there's the issue of specs. As you said, faster specs are needed with Android since the OS is such a pig compared to WP7 or iOS. Neckbeards still buy into spec sheets and give little thought to practical performance and user experience. Who cares about 1.5ghz dual cores when an old single core WP7 device gives much practically smoother performance, or when a 800mhz iPhone is both smoother and has faster benchmarks.

Some people miss the forest for the trees, it's the same as people who insisted that the Pentium 4 was worth buying over an Athlon 64 because OMG MEGAHERTZ


Tango Down
By muhahaaha on 12/28/2011 7:19:03 PM , Rating: 3
MS needs to learn how to market to the average Joe from Apple. Maybe after they put out Bango Wango, we'll have something. :P




RE: Tango Down
By inighthawki on 12/28/2011 8:04:56 PM , Rating: 2
That and all the phones out now kind of suck. While I strongly dislike iOS, and I would never actually buy an iPhone, I can't help but admit that after seeing my friend's 4S, that the phone itself is built with exception quality. There are a few Android phones as well that catch my attention, but in the end, Microsoft does not have a single phone that stands out from the competition and says "choose me." They are all low price budget phones the Samsung and HTC slapped together, and ultimately don't hold the same quality as other phones. If they released an iPhone 4S that ran Mango, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat, but until then, all the phones are pretty lame.


RE: Tango Down
By spread on 12/28/2011 11:25:43 PM , Rating: 2
The Titan is very well built and Nokia has the Lumia 800 which is supposed to be very nice. AMOLED screen, unibody... yadda yadda.

But I agree, most Windows phones suck and it's not helping their image. They need a few halo phones.


RE: Tango Down
By sprockkets on 12/29/2011 12:27:15 AM , Rating: 2
The Nokia 800 isn't flying off the shelves either. Still too early to tell, but it doesn't look good.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/nokia-lumia-800...

I like how the SG2 is outselling the iphone, so I'm happy.


RE: Tango Down
By Omega215D on 12/28/2011 8:31:23 PM , Rating: 2
MS is hoping Tango brings Cash along for the WP7 ride...


RE: Tango Down
By Arsynic on 12/29/2011 3:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
Apple customers aren't "the average Joe". The average Joe won't spend all night waiting in line for a new phone with a MHz increase. These people are Apple fanatics and it's a market in and of itself. Going after these people are a waste of time and money.


What's next after Tango
By optimuscream on 12/28/2011 11:30:12 PM , Rating: 2
if they want to obey the *ango* rules .. whats next after Tango ..? I'm just wondering .. I hope it's not short life.




RE: What's next after Tango
By Natch on 12/29/2011 7:56:48 AM , Rating: 2
More importantly....if the follow-on was going to be Tango, the preceding should have been Wango ! Then we could have had Ted Nugent commercials!!


Didn't ya know?
By sprockkets on 12/28/2011 6:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
These phones look "awesome", that is why they will sell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Hzw2PsIls




"Budget" hardware
By nafhan on 12/29/2011 9:10:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If the budget hardware indeed makes the WP experience clunkier, it should be interesting how much that cripples the UI experience.
Are they actually going with slower hardware than the Windows 7 launch devices? I feel like that would be crazy. To me, it seems like they'd probably just continue using the same hardware that WP7 launched with, as that's essentially today's "budget" hardware and WP7 seems to run great on it.




I think they already broke it.
By danjw1 on 12/29/2011 5:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
I just don't see them as a player in the mobile market. Their Windows 7 phones were generally panned. I don't know one who is considering them as a player right now. They are going to have to blow people away to get out of the whole they dug themselves into by releasing a Windows 7 platform that wasn't ready.




"Paying an extra $500 for a computer in this environment -- same piece of hardware -- paying $500 more to get a logo on it? I think that's a more challenging proposition for the average person than it used to be." -- Steve Ballmer














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki