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The classic Xbox
The Wii does not have the graphical horsepower of the five-year-old original Xbox, says Microsoft

Everyone knows that technical specs of the Wii are no match for those of Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 – a point which Nintendo isn’t even trying to hide. On paper, the Wii doesn’t match up with the technology of the current generation – and Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft’s entertainment division, recently went on to say that Wii wouldn’t even match up to one of the last-generation systems.

“The video graphics on it aren't very strong; the box itself is kind of underpowered; it doesn't play DVDs; there are a lot of down-line components [that] aren't actually that interesting,” Bach said in an eWeek interview. “They don't have the graphics horsepower that even Xbox 1 had.”

Bach’s comments meant no disrespect to Nintendo, as he stressed heavily his admiration for the rival company’s innovation and even predicts success for the Wii. What has raised a few eyebrows, however, is his comment that the Wii wouldn’t even be able to produce graphics that we saw from the original Xbox – a system released five years ahead of the Wii.

J. Allard-dreadlock-pusher N'Gai Croal of Newsweek sought to test the validity of Bach’s claim and polled a couple third party developers for their anonymous comments. One of the original Xbox’s greatest strengths was its NVIDIA GPU’s programmable shader capability – something that the Wii’s ATI GPU does not have.

“The Wii's GPU has fixed functions for vertex, lighting, and pixel operations,” said one of the developers. “All 'programmable shaders' means is that the code you write for the shader gets run on the vertex and pixel hardware of the GPU. This is how it works on the high-end ATI and Nvidia GPU parts. The Wii is an older fixed function design where you have lots of operations but the pipelines are not programmable in the sense of downloading shader code to run [on them].”

Even without programmable pixel shaders, the fixed functions of the Wii are able to do a pretty good job, said another programmer. “Almost all the shader effects on PC, Xbox 360 and PS3 can be reproduced on the Wii by re-implementing them with the fixed function hardware of the Wii's GPU. Most games just port the effect over. A few teams have gone as far as making a shader-to-Wii conversion tool. It reads the shader code and generates the fixed function code necessary to achieve the same result. Keep in mind that the Wii's GPU is not as fast or feature rich as the Xbox 360 or PS3, but that doesn't mean you can't get very close results.”



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It is what it is
By BMFPitt on 5/11/2007 8:30:17 AM , Rating: 5
The Wii is what it is, and it is very good at being what it is. I think that the current $250 Wii is a better deal than some beefed up theoretical $400 Wii with more modern hardware. It is small and cool-running, and it is fun. I only know one guy who has ever played the Wii and not liked it.

I have my Wii for party games and exercise (try Wii Boxing with 5lb wrist weights sometime.) I don't think an 8800GTX would enhance that experience enough to up the cost.




RE: It is what it is
By killerroach on 5/11/2007 9:32:22 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed for the most part, but I don't think that modestly upgraded hardware specs would make the Wii a $400 system... as it stands right now, I'd be surprised if the console costs Nintendo any more than $150 each to make. They are making money hand over fist with the Wii hardware, and that will only increase as time goes on, since I doubt they'll drop the price on it anytime soon, with demand still outstripping supply...


RE: It is what it is
By encryptkeeper on 5/11/2007 10:11:56 AM , Rating: 2
At launch time, the Wii cost Nintendo about $158.00 (US) to make (just in parts).
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5391
Like the article says, this isn't including Wii Remote, Wii Sports, production costs, system OS and software costs, packaging, shipping, OR wrist strap. It's probably pretty close to 225 or 235.


RE: It is what it is
By SquidianLoveGod on 5/11/2007 10:21:01 PM , Rating: 2
And you forget not everyone lives in the United States.
in Aussie Island its RRP is 399.


RE: It is what it is
By osalcido on 5/13/2007 6:03:23 AM , Rating: 5
No not everyone lives in the US..... just the ones that matter...

I keed, I keed


RE: It is what it is
By SquidianLoveGod on 5/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: It is what it is
By MamiyaOtaru on 5/14/2007 8:44:51 AM , Rating: 2
That sentence makes my eyes bleed. Three too many commas, and I've never heard of "deciphering on." Plain old "decipher" would work just fine.


RE: It is what it is
By SquidianLoveGod on 5/14/07, Rating: -1
RE: It is what it is
By TravisO on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It is what it is
By ogreslayer on 5/11/2007 10:33:14 AM , Rating: 1
Nintendo lost no money on the Gamecube, in fact they were making a profit on every unit after the first year and profits in excess of $100 per Wii right now. This has been established fact long before the Wii ever came out. And is part of the impetus for saying the Wii is only an upgraded GC. Besides the fact that the GPU and CPU are just reworked versions as well, despite what Nintendo's PR wants to say.

The Wii is a crappy system for the $250 they charge for it. I want one, but the price does not fit the specs or features for the system. The 360 is only $50 more for a core unit; considering the hardware difference that is pretty sad.

Sony and MS are losing tons of cash on their systems. Where Sony was bordering on losing $400 per 20GB unit at launch. I think MS was near $200 per core at launch.

Nintendo is trying to build up a cash reserve via the Wii and GC for their next system as they know at that point they will need to move over to better graphic capabilities and still offer Wii level functionality. They also know that they will get the same 3rd party treatment as they did last generation. Thus the need for high profit hardware is essential as the amount of titles they are gonna push through is not gonna come close to what the 360 and PS3 are gonna do.


RE: It is what it is
By Vanilla Thunder on 5/11/2007 11:03:55 AM , Rating: 1
Please show me proof that the Wii is making $100 profit per console. That's ridiculous.

Vanilla


RE: It is what it is
By jpeyton on 5/11/2007 5:28:36 PM , Rating: 4
Don't you guys realize that an overwhelming majority of console game players worldwide DO NOT have a high-definition TV or surround-sound?

Nintendo simply realized that in the closing years of this decade, all people want a reasonably priced console with an excellent line-up of games. How else can you explain the PS2 still selling almost 300,000 units per month well after the release of the slow-selling PS3?

Let's face it; you can line up Forza 2 (XBOX 360) next to GT4 (PS2), running on the same standard definition TVs with stereo sound, and the graphical/audio differences will be small.


RE: It is what it is
By mcturkey on 5/11/2007 11:01:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Let's face it; you can line up Forza 2 (XBOX 360) next to GT4 (PS2), running on the same standard definition TVs with stereo sound, and the graphical/audio differences will be small.


There is much more to graphics than resolution. And comparing Forza 2 to GT4 is a joke. The physics simulation of Forza 2 is superior to GT4 in my book (though my time with the demo has been limited).

You picked kind of a bad genre of game to compare, because those games never were about graphics.


RE: It is what it is
By dagamer34 on 5/12/2007 5:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
But most people aren't going to notice enough to spend $300 for graphics that look almost the same on a SDTV. And suggesting they buy an HDTV is ludacris.

While you may know the difference, it only means that you're willing to pay more money. Most people are not.


RE: It is what it is
By Lonyo on 5/11/2007 11:58:23 AM , Rating: 5
I agree, the Wii is overpriced.
The Xbox 360 Core often has sales in the UK where it goes for £150, vs the £180 of the Wii. Bear in mind that the Wii is pretty difficult to find, and otherwise the Xbox 360 Core is £200, only a bit more than the 360, it's a valid comparison any way you try to spin it.


RE: It is what it is
By Zandros on 5/11/2007 5:19:31 PM , Rating: 3
It's not overpriced by the most common definition - people are buying it.

If the margins and/or profits seem excessively high... that's another thing. And surely a sign of a healthy product?


RE: It is what it is
By BMFPitt on 5/11/2007 8:17:00 PM , Rating: 2
I find it hilarious when people say the Wii is overpriced, yet no store can keep them in stock for 24 hours.

I really wonder what goes through their minds.


RE: It is what it is
By JeffDM on 5/15/2007 12:24:38 AM , Rating: 2
The Wii may be more in the UK, but in the US, it is about a third less than the base 360, $249 USD vs. 360's $399 USD. The Wii is apparently very hard to get and I'm told that it is outselling the other home consoles by a fair margin.


RE: It is what it is
By SigmaHyperion on 5/11/2007 12:05:56 PM , Rating: 1
Nintendo is sitting on some $8 BILLION USD in cash right now. For the record, that's less cash than both Sony and MS is sitting on (it's got more money but most of it is tied up in investments) and that's their entire companies, not just their gaming divisions. Nintendo is also practically debt-free, whereas Sony in particular is massively debt-ridden, quickly heading towards a whopping $100 billion in debt.

Nintendo hardly needs to sit around and stock up cash to build some great console. If it wanted to do that it could have done that this go'round.


RE: It is what it is
By SigmaHyperion on 5/11/2007 12:06:31 PM , Rating: 1
Err, I mean that's MORE cash than Sony or MS is sitting on.


RE: It is what it is
By dwo on 5/11/2007 12:48:46 PM , Rating: 5
Micorosoft is sitting on like 23 billion+. Didn't anyone hear read that figure a couple weeks ago in the Microsoft - Yahoo buyout rumor?


RE: It is what it is
By JeffDM on 5/14/2007 11:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
As yet, the gaming system is still a major liability for Microsoft's earnings. Relatively speaking, they are practically trying to bribe their way into the living room, they haven't netted a dime from their game platform division, everything is basically a big net loss. They can afford to let it leech for a decade if they have to, but I hope that shareholders wise up before that long, or that it at least makes a profit soon, like they are promising.


RE: It is what it is
By Funksultan on 5/11/2007 12:54:43 PM , Rating: 2
Sig, read some more into it. No company on the planet has the available capital that Microsoft has at this moment.

Saying that Microsoft has it's money tied up in investments is stating the obvious. Nintendo invests it's money as well. Trust me, any company that would even THINK of having 8 Billion laying around NOT in investments would be abandoned by it's stockholders for sheer incompetence in a heartbeat.

*smile* (pictures Nintendo sitting on 8 Bil under their mattress)


RE: It is what it is
By SigmaHyperion on 5/11/2007 3:00:35 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo actually IS sitting on 8 billion in free cash. As in money in the bank. As I said, MS has more money (a lot more, obviously), but most of its' money is tied up in short-term investments but is still rather liquid. Sony's got a lot less cash, not a lot of investments, and a truly staggering amount of debt.

But that's really neither here nor there. The point is that Nintendo has huge amounts of financial resources at its' disposal. It's got more money than Sony (and virtually no debt) and, though impossible to determine since you can't easily segregate the Xbox division from MS' financials, probably at least as much financial wherewithall as MS' Xbox division does.

Nintendo is not playing it safe and not making an expensive console so that it can hoard cash and come out with some hugely powerful console the next-generation. It's "playing it safe" because it's working . Nintendo sells more video game systems everyday than Sony and Microsoft combined. Obviously Nintendo made the right choice by making a cheaper, not-so-next-gen console. Why would it want to come up with something for the next-gen that's similar to the products it's beating the pants off of right now? Clearly, if making money is your goal (and it is for any private company) Nintendo is the smart one here.


RE: It is what it is
By Zandros on 5/11/2007 5:16:04 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Nintendo actually IS sitting on 8 billion in free cash. As in money in the bank


They can't be. If the are, they are losing money at the rate of inflation. Any one with even a basic knowledge of economics would invest, if so only in equity or bond funds.


RE: It is what it is
By Aerius on 5/11/2007 9:15:56 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone with a basic knowledge of economics would know that Japan has not had inflation for most of the past decade. Interest rates in Japan were zero until recently.


RE: It is what it is
By osalcido on 5/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: It is what it is
By gramboh on 5/12/2007 4:41:54 AM , Rating: 2
$8B in cash/cash equivalents on their balance sheet can include actual cash bank accounts, term deposits/BA's, short-term bonds but not equity investments, assuming Japanese accounting standards are similar to US GAAP.


RE: It is what it is
By encryptkeeper on 5/11/2007 1:31:37 PM , Rating: 2
The Wii is not a crappy system. The technology is practically double what the Gamecube boasted, and uses 20% less power. The controller is completely revolutionary (contrary to what MS tells you) and so far, the games that are in development look pretty fun and different too. All that for $250 bucks??? That's nowhere near crappy to me. Or I could pay 150 dollars more for a 360, or 350 more for a PS3. I don't get the motion control/pointing capability, I pay 10 dollars more for new games, I get a machine that eats power like crazy, and most importantly, neither the PS3 or 360 have any games that I want (except for MGS4). But I CAN play DVD's with those systems. But why should I care about that when I have a DVD player already, like almost everyone in America. Why should I care about BR or HD when I have a 27" tube TV? None of the systems are crappy, but the GAMES are either crappy or not. The 360 didn't have anything particularly interesting (except Oblivion) until GOW came out. Give it some time. BTW if you have the ability to READ the article, you'll notice that it's in no way a 100 dollar profit per console sold.


RE: It is what it is
By BladeVenom on 5/11/2007 5:16:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The controller is completely revolutionary

Not according to Interlink Electronics who is suing them for patent infringement.


RE: It is what it is
By awer26 on 5/13/2007 2:06:52 PM , Rating: 4
They are suing for patent infringement on the trigger, not the whole remote. They say they patented the trigger in 1997, but as we all know, the N64 had a VERY similar trigger in 1996 and the Wii's trigger looks very similar to that.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162912.html


RE: It is what it is
By encryptkeeper on 5/13/2007 6:16:48 PM , Rating: 2
BladeVenom on 5/11/2007 5:16:56 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
The controller is completely revolutionary

Not according to Interlink Electronics who is suing them for patent infringement.

Parent | Reply

[Collapse Comment] RE: It is what it is
By awer26 on 5/13/07, Rating: 2
By awer26 on 5/13/2007 2:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
They are suing for patent infringement on the trigger, not the whole remote. They say they patented the trigger in 1997, but as we all know, the N64 had a VERY similar trigger in 1996 and the Wii's trigger looks very similar to that.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162912.html


OWNED!


RE: It is what it is
By MamiyaOtaru on 5/14/2007 8:44:02 AM , Rating: 2
MS may lose, but they can afford to. Small price to pay to expand into a new market.

How does one go from "loose money" to "loses the lease"? It's lose people. One o. Loose is an entirely different word.
________
Call me pedantic or whatever, but I like English.


RE: It is what it is
By peternelson on 5/17/2007 9:08:33 AM , Rating: 2
>How does one go from "loose money" to "loses the lease"? >It's lose people. One o. Loose is an entirely different >word.

Yes, of course it should be "lose", you and I know that because we were educated and bothered to study English at school.

However, I find this error so often now, that I often use it myself in jest, as if it were part of l33t-speak.

ie as a Counter-strike taunt: you LOOSERS!
oh, no, we are going to loose the round!

Of course I'm partly mocking those who don't know the difference. I've tried like you to correct people, but it usually falls on deaf ears, so I figure if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. ROFL. Don't loose your temper over it.


RE: It is what it is
By dome1234 on 5/11/2007 9:52:15 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
cool-running


yup. Temperature-wise. But it won't stop some from getting some almost useless add-on.

Wii-cooler.

http://gonintendo.com/?p=17447


RE: It is what it is
By thebrown13 on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It is what it is
By AstroCreep on 5/11/2007 12:56:47 PM , Rating: 1
Tell that to the elder nursing home residents who can't put the damn thing down.

Great post BTW. So many 10-year-olds just can't quit buying them, huh?


RE: It is what it is
By Assimilator87 on 5/11/2007 1:19:02 PM , Rating: 3
I've never played a Wii, but as great as the games may be, once they're at that point, there's only one way to make the game better and that's to make it more visually immersive. People wouldn't be ragging on the Wii's technical capabilities if it was at least equal or slightly better in power to the last generation, of which the Xbox was superior, but from looking at games like Far Cry, which always seems to be a benchmark for pushing technology, it looks absolutely terrible on the Wii.


RE: It is what it is
By encryptkeeper on 5/11/2007 2:09:26 PM , Rating: 2
It's pretty obvious that the first generation of Wii FPS are only average at best. Several companies jumped on board the hype and media exhilaration and found that they didn't spend enough development time. At the same time, without knowing the whole details of the development time, it's possible Nintendo didn't release details of the controller and how to program for it until late in development. If that's true, then several games promised for early in the life cycle were doomed to fail. This is a totally new control method, and it has SO much promise, but the games will get better. Until then, there's plenty of other games (VC) and other Channels to have fun with.


RE: It is what it is
By thebrown13 on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It is what it is
By wien on 5/13/2007 8:23:21 AM , Rating: 4
Yeah, god forbid you actually let your hair down and have fun right? Gaming is serious business!


nintendo's next console will be insane
By NotAok on 5/11/2007 9:38:18 AM , Rating: 2
I'm willing to bet Nintendo's next console will be a beast. nintendo always tries to be different at first just to... be different (they're stubborn, like sony) But if you look at the past nintendo has always given in the next time around. Think about it, they skipped out on discs at first, same thing with online gaming, now look at them. Now HD gaming is huge as well as powerful hardware, so what does nintendo do? Re-invent the Gamecube with a motion controller. Next time around I'm pretty positive they'll focus a lot more on graphics and ignore something else that everyone wants.




By RandomFool on 5/11/2007 10:10:01 AM , Rating: 2
I'm guessing the next Nintendo console will be more of an evolution than a beast. More powerful, support HD, and have a wiimote 2. Similar to the SNES controller is an fancier NES controller.
So far it's working out extremely well for them with the underpowered system. Unless something changes they won't be going back to the lose money on every system business model.


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 10:14:26 AM , Rating: 2
While Nintendo does always seem to be a generation behind in adopting new technology, whey they do they never surpass their competitors.

They finally adopted optical on the GC, with those tiny ass disks. It definately didn't surpass their competitors in any fashion other then being annoying to keep track of.

Nintendo hasn't had a technologically superior console since the SNES. That really hasn't stopped them from putting out good first party games. They will need to do some more catching up next time, but if you think thier next console will have the horsepower of even the current 360 or PS3 I think you're mistaken.


By NotAok on 5/11/2007 10:27:18 AM , Rating: 3
eh maybe, but I think they'll definitely try and make something capable of handling a lot more. Nintendo really does need more 3rd party support and multiplatform games. I realize their first party stuff still sells well, but they're not nearly as good as the older stuff and really how many times can they rehash the same franchise before it gets old?


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 10:28:02 AM , Rating: 3
mmmm SNES...

Best game console ever made. I would take my SNES hands down over any console currently out if I could only have one game console.


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By NotAok on 5/11/2007 11:24:32 AM , Rating: 2
SNES is an amazing console... however if I could only choose one I'd go with my xbox, modded of course. Then I could play xbox, snes, nes, gba, etc. plus have xbox media center all on one system. how could you possibly say no to that?!


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By Flunk on 5/11/2007 2:07:34 PM , Rating: 1
I would, SNES is stil better than your illegal, hacked XBOX.


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By Mitch101 on 5/11/2007 3:29:35 PM , Rating: 2
Its actually not illegal but I wont slam you for that becuase its just not well known. I have trimmed it down to provide clarity.

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2003/index.html

On October 28, 2003, the Librarian of Congress, on the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, announced the classes of works subject to the exemption from the prohibition against circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works. The four classes of works exempted are:

(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.


By MrTeal on 5/12/2007 10:57:56 AM , Rating: 2
Of course, you have the carts for all those legal SNES, NES and GBA games, and would just rather play them on the XBox.


RE: nintendo's next console will be insane
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 4:24:57 PM , Rating: 3
Real SNES controllers, real SPC700 sound (no emulator sounds exactly like a SNES in real time), that red power led glowing in the dark at 3am, the smell of a warm cart... nuff said.

Besides x86 is boring, 65816 and SPC700 are much more fun to program =D

lda #$07
sta $2105

mode 7 ftw!


By exdeath on 5/11/2007 4:26:04 PM , Rating: 5
And you can't throw your xbox controller at your xbox 100 times and expect them to keep on working until the end of time ;)


By redbone75 on 5/12/2007 5:05:16 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Nintendo hasn't had a technologically superior console since the SNES.

The N64 was more advanced than the PSX and Saturn, but being a cartridge based system kicked it in the @$$.


The problem with Wii
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 10:22:16 AM , Rating: 1
The problem I see with Wii is two fold:

1) When people are done playing games like Zelda and Metroid, after they complete the game, they will be left thinking "my eyes are sore from that glittering upscaled 480p mess, imagine how much more awesome this game would be in HD". Playing the Wii on my 106" HD screen leaves much to be desired in it's pixelated graphics, compounded further by excessive depth of field and blur effects, just makes it nauseating at times. All the fun of the innovative controls is ruined when you have to squint to shoot some block of pixels in the distance with your bow and arrow.

2) When people are done playing games like Zelda and Metroid, they will realize that all they have left to get for Wii is Spongebob 12 and Dora the Explorer 8 and Pokemon 367.

I'm trying hard to like the Wii but it looks like its going to be yet another console you own only because of one or two exclusive games. I wonder if anyone is has realized this yet or if they are still too wrapped up in the hype and the desire to have one simply because it's a hard to get item.




RE: The problem with Wii
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 11:01:00 AM , Rating: 3
I realized that when I bought the Wii. I think there will probably be only 5 or 6 games I actually ever buy for it. Zelda, metroid, smash bros, mario cart, and any sequals to those pretty much it.

Of course thats exactly what happened with the GC as well so I wasn't expecting anything different. I think the only 3rd party title I bought for the GC was Skies of Arcadia and I really doubt the Wii will be any different. Most 3rd part games are published on multiple consoles and given the choice, I'll buy whichever one LOOKS the best graphically as there is generally little to no difference in gameplay.


RE: The problem with Wii
By aGreenAgent on 5/11/2007 12:12:50 PM , Rating: 3
Most of the 3rd party games that are out for the Wii right now are better on the Wii than any other console. Point and click shooting, etc. etc.

And, Zelda and Metroid are fun, but they're not even what makes the system worth buying.

Wario Ware, Mario Party when it comes out, Wii Sports and I'm sure plenty more titles are what makes the console awesome.

The Wii is definitely hitting the college-age market. The Wii Sports drinking game is the best thing to happen to party houses this year.


RE: The problem with Wii
By exdeath on 5/11/07, Rating: 0
RE: The problem with Wii
By SquidianLoveGod on 5/12/2007 12:14:00 AM , Rating: 4
Try Direct X 7.0 Fixed function, TnL was released with the advent of Direct X 7.
And Like the Geforce 2 and Radeon 7500 Cards, it has Pixel shader version 0.5. (Might as well be).
Its basically Pixel shaders, just not programmable.

And there is more to games than graphics. Why else would I stick with my Radeon 9700Pro and still play Oblivion?


RE: The problem with Wii
By KaiserCSS on 5/12/07, Rating: -1
RE: The problem with Wii
By SquidianLoveGod on 5/12/2007 2:11:25 PM , Rating: 4
There are plenty of cards with allot more grunt than a 9700Pro, That I could easily afford, And I do manage 1280x800 medium Quality 35-40 fps outdoors. (Uber tweaked and over-clocked).
Well if you like them to look good, you may as well wait 50 years for it to be fully life-like, And you require a Geforce 87464.

Just because something is old, Does not mean it is past its used by date, Look at how long Geforce 2's could play the latest games for.

And I couldn't care less about SM3 vs SM2 the differences are minor at best, One of the more major updates in Shader Model 3.0 is the addition of Vertex Texture Lookups, What this allows is features like Displacement Mapping, If there is going to be any major difference in image quality comparing Shader Model 3.0 and 2.0 it is going to be with the use of Displacement Mapping.

And on another note, If I wasn't having 'Fun' Running oblivion, there is a handy tool, so-called OldOblivion which allows me to use Shader Model 1.1, 1.2, 1.4 and 2.0 respectively.
There is a large difference in image quality from SM1.1 to SM3 - But the quality difference between 1.4 and 2.0 ain't all that special in my eyes.

Did you ever choose a Playstation 2 over the Dreamcast? Even when the Dreamcast games looked allot better than that of the early PS2 games? (Thanks to the larger Video Texture Memory size).

What about Halo? Did you buy that for Xbox or PC? Did you go with the PC for the superior graphics?

Did you go for a PS3 because it is "Apparently" more graphical than that of the Xbox 360?

Seriously, games like FarCry, although visually appealing does not match that of the legendary game called StarCraft - Which mind you, is a national sport in Korea, It was released in 1998, Its all 2D Isometric, Limited to a resolution of 640x480, yet is one of the most favored games ever released, a legend in its own right, But I guess someone like yourself wouldn't bother to play something so balanced, and fun? You would rather play WarCraft 3 instead, because its at least "3D - And more graphical".

Your types really annoy me.

I've had enough, I'm off to go play StarCraft the 2D game that runs at 640x480 against other players on Battle.net where there is tens of thousands of other players.


RE: The problem with Wii
By MaK2000 on 5/21/2007 11:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
Good point. I would like to point out that a 9700 is below the minimum system requirements for Oblivion. That is scary thought for me. Sometimes a little more hardware is a good thing.


RE: The problem with Wii
By danrien on 5/11/2007 1:59:14 PM , Rating: 2
apparently you haven't played wii sports, super monkey ball, or raving rabids. or you are somebody who only enjoys single player games and doesn't like having a bunch of ppl over to play games with you.


RE: The problem with Wii
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 4:41:37 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah I like playing games with depth, not 4 player 3D pong with tilt controllers... think about that for a minute and realize thats pretty much what most of the Wii Sports games are =D

Multiplayer is cool. But give me a game like Halflife 2, Resident Evil, or Metroid Prime, that is multiplayer. And I don't mean a death match mode that was added in the last month before release, I mean coop story mode where the players are able to explore a world in a Metroid game in different directions at the same time, pool their resources, work together to complete two or more parts of a larger goal on opposite ends of the world to progress, etc. I don't much care for virtual tennis.

I have high hopes for this system, but I'd like to see a little more in games with depth like SNES and PS1. 99% of the games out and projected to come out on the Wii are:

a) ports of Disney or Nickelodeon shows, often nothing more than the old $2.99 Gamecube disc revitalized in a Wii box for $49.99

b) ports of 2 year old PC games and their sequels downgraded to 640x480 with motion control hacks added

c) 16 versions of some tired Madden sports game

d) ported or emulated classics from the SNES/Genesis era, most of which were already available on everything from GBA to PS2

Sigh...


RE: The problem with Wii
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 5:32:31 PM , Rating: 3
CoOP Metroid... oh now that would be fun.

/mourn loss of CoOP mode in FPS games


RE: The problem with Wii
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 6:39:56 PM , Rating: 2
And I mean real co-op where the maps and puzzles are explicitly made for cooperative puzzle solving, just like single player Zelda and Metroid games. At the actual players discretion, one person choses to stay behind fending off monsters to protect your crashed ship, another runs off to a nearby wreakage you saw on the way down that might have spare parts for said ship, a two man team goes off the explore an abandon installation either to retrieve records, activate a communications array, or search for the survivors that sent the rescue beacon that caused you to try to land, who in turn could just be other players... players who started out the game much like Halflife where they got trapped in that installation and sent out a rescue beacon... sounds like a weekend of fun to me!

The possibilities are endless. But it's much easier and cheaper to just throw in a canned death match engine and stand alone DM arenas at the last minute than to actually make a real multi player mode to these games...

Not just 4 people side by side with unlimited ammo respawning indefinately when they die blasting everything together (ie: Doom, Serious Sam, Halo, etc)


RE: The problem with Wii
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 6:48:15 PM , Rating: 2
Metroid... four players, crash, intro plays out showing the surrounding hostile world.

Game plays as normal with just four players running around...

Multiple goals present themselves and the game contends with a 'split' and pauses for the players to make their choices...

A RTS style prestage lobby with a box for each objective so that all players pick which team they will be on under each objective. The person with the heavy machine gun might be the one to stay by himself to guard the ship.

The person with the most inventory space takes a light assault rifle and empty inventory and books it too the crashed space station 2 clicks south to retrieve a batter or something...

Grr... I'm only a programmer, not an artist, musician, level designer, animator, etc, etc, etc...


RE: The problem with Wii
By jconan on 5/22/2007 12:19:01 AM , Rating: 2
maybe umbrella chronicles though not a multiplayer it's supposedly a 2 player game for wii only...


RE: The problem with Wii
By HackSacken on 5/11/2007 4:50:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1) When people are done playing games like Zelda and Metroid, after they complete the game, they will be left thinking "my eyes are sore from that glittering upscaled 480p mess, imagine how much more awesome this game would be in HD".


You're right. Yet, they completed the game and played it. Does one stop attempting to complete the game b/c it doesn't look as good as it could. In your statement, no. They completed it b/c it was a enjoyable and an entertaining game. Isn't the sole purpose/goal of a console game? In your example, a Wii game met this goal.


Funny!?
By jojo29 on 5/11/2007 8:38:55 AM , Rating: 2
It's funny that microsoft are trying to tout how much better the original xbox is than the Wii, yet MS were the first to abandon that sinking ship the SECOND xbox 360 was up and running.




RE: Funny!?
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 8:53:12 AM , Rating: 4
My understanding is that MS stopped producing the Xbox ASAP because the contracts they signed with some of the vendors (particularly Nvidia) did not provide them any savings as hardware got cheaper.

Since they went with mainly OTS components for the first Xbox, MS was unable to take advantage of any cost savings by doing something like combining the CPU and GPU later on.


RE: Funny!?
By OrSin on 5/11/2007 9:37:23 AM , Rating: 2
THe xbox 1 was a starter box to get into the market. It was by no means what MS wanted a console to be. It was all they time to do and get it even close to right. To MS the xbox is like the wii is now. It was something new for the public to get a hold in the market. Wii is the same thing. It was put out to get a next generation box out, so they would not be completely forgotten. They didn't expect the market share they are getting, which in the long run might screw them. Nintendo full expect the Wii to get %15 market share, and it to be something to show off what they can do. Then 2-3 years later put out a real next gen system. They might still do that, but now they have to make sure they dont kill thier current user base doing it.
But considering how underpowered the Wii is they should be able to emulate all the games very easy on a new system. And since most user only paid $250. They will not mind Paying 250 again in 3 years. And a 250 system in 3 years will be more powerful then both 360 and PS3.


RE: Funny!?
By animedude on 5/11/2007 12:32:42 PM , Rating: 2
The strategy of Wii is different from the original XBOX. Unlike the orginal XBOX(and current XBOX360), the Wii has the support of the Japanese fans. In the long run, Wii will not be like the XBOX. I went to one of the early morning line up last month to try and get a wii, but unfortunately people were already there at 3AM or 4AM. I was amazed to see how many families and females were lining up for it. Now you can tell me how the Wii will be like the original XBOX? All you people who are saying how Wii will fail, you need to look outside the world, not in your dome. The wii just pwned everyone.


RE: Funny!?
By bkm32 on 5/11/2007 3:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
The next Nintendo machine will have roughly the same components as the X360 (65nm). Nintendo has shown a preference to keeping costs down, and the X360 components will be the cheapest (between X360 and PS3), especially in 2-3 yrs. Moreover, the HD format video wars will be at full tilt, and expect the next Nintendo machine (Nintendo has never had sequel names for their consoles--stop calling it the Wii 2) will pick side and have one internal HD drive. This drive may also have write capability (depending on the cheapest tech format) for those that "have to have the disk. This is important because games will be fully downloadable 2-3 yrs from now. Consequently, copyright security software will have come a long way in this time, as well.

Anyway, as I see it the next Nintendo console will be fully backward-compatible with the Wii/GC, have an upgraded "Wii-mote" and wireless (to its corresponding "Wii-mote") "Nunchucku" that will also receive "grip intensity data" (basically how hard someone is holding the controller along with heat-sensing capabilities), have the cheapest HD drive (with probable write capability) available at the time (don't expect it to BR-DVD since Nintendo and Sony are currently feuding, although this may change), include next generation of Wi-fi, be fully compatible with the DS (the DS can serve as a controller and DS games playable on the new system via a DS wired connection), and have an included HDD or SSDD if the tech is reasonably priced with the ability to upgrade this with COTS hardware.

Expect this new machine to be a bit bigger, but not much, and an evolved online feature-set. Also, expect it to have the next-gen graphics we're accustomed to today and be about $250, again. This is a good price because as someone already posted, the Core X360 is only $50 more. In 2-3 yrs, the Pro X360 will be about $250w/20GB HDD with the Core completely OBE as MS will demand that developers take advantage of the HDD so as develop games that can look as good as PS3 games and have the competing length. It will be crucial for MS to do this since the PS3 will just be hitting its stride and multi-platform games will actually look and play better on the PS3.

At any rate, I think we've discovered that the vast majority of consumers are not willing to pay the excesses of this generation to enjoy their games. And with the Wii expanding the number of gamers, this new type/generation of gamer is a frugal group. With the price of everything else going up, especially petroleum, expect many gamers to be investing their dollars in the cheapest, most valued system (s).


RE: Funny!?
By rdeegvainl on 5/11/2007 3:56:59 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo has had sequal names for it's consoles,
Nintendo---Super Nintendo
game boy---game boy color---game boy advance
but i do agree, people should not call it the wii 2, i like to think it might be named the "Super Wii" LOL or maybe Wii color, and it could come in blue an green and all the colors we want it to. :)


RE: Funny!?
By exdeath on 5/11/2007 4:42:23 PM , Rating: 3
The WiiNES!

"Jimmy!!! Stop playing with your WiiNES and go to bed!"


RE: Funny!?
By Suomynona on 5/13/2007 8:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, the number 2 in Japanese is pronounced nee. So, yeah you could call it a weenie.


RE: Funny!?
By Proteusza on 5/16/2007 9:37:33 AM , Rating: 2
Phonetic pronounciation as I remember it from karate (probably horribly off, you will have to excuse me).

itch nie san chie goh rok sitch hutch ku ju.

The next Nintendo console will never feature a DVD writer, because it is too expensive and a games console has no need for such a thing. if an hd format drops in price enough that might go in, but probably not. to offer a good hd experience takes a lot of money that could otherwise make better gaming hardware, and I dont think nintendo will think it is worth it.

The Wii is underpowered, but in a way I'm glad its stalling the hardware arms race a bit. For years, people have been making games look better and better but not enhancing their playability. The wii might force them to make better games because of that.


RE: Funny!?
By exdeath on 5/17/2007 11:15:48 AM , Rating: 2
ichi ni san shi/yon go roku nana/shichi hachi kyuu jyuu

boku wa nihongo no ninensei desu


Thats Nice
By Mitch101 on 5/11/2007 9:14:45 AM , Rating: 5
Ok So where do I buy an X-Box then? E-Bay because Microsoft doesnt make them any more.

I love Microsoft but what they need to learn is graphics dont mean didly if the games arent any fun. The Wii might not be super realistic but the games are fun. Wii targets the fun and silly crowd with a few serious titles.

Do games like Tennis need to look realistic? Not for me they dont. I want a little sillyness. My kids dont think Ana Kornakova rendered lifelike is fun. Its actually boring. Doesnt anyone at Microsoft have kids? My kids will never be interested in X-Box Tennis, football, baseball, hocket, but even I would jump into a game of tennis with Mario and Donkey Kong on the Wii or even Gamecube.

Of the X-box my kids only like a handfull of games. Barbi Horse, Super Monkey Ball, one of the Scooby Doo titles, Tom and Jerry, and there is one more. Spyro is too hard for them still. THATS PATHETIC. What this also signifies is an entirely missed market the Wii caters to that Microsoft just doesnt get.

Microsoft doesnt get family or fun child like games. They just dont. They never will. More Microsoft people need to smoke weed and get silly and quit being so anal rententive with thier serious games.

I like a good Halo every now and then but my kids just arent interested if every other game is a first person shooter set in a different time and place.




RE: Thats Nice
By Crazyeyeskillah on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: Thats Nice
By drakore on 5/11/2007 10:11:22 AM , Rating: 2
I actually think that is the funniest comment ever... not to mention that curb episode with crazy eyes is amazing


RE: Thats Nice
By LatinMessiah on 5/14/2007 1:00:10 PM , Rating: 2
Creeeeeeeeepy.


RE: Thats Nice
By OrSin on 5/11/2007 9:47:39 AM , Rating: 2
This guy is so right. I got my daughter 3 games on 360 and all was made for kids. She could not play any of them. I could not net even get them without 2-3 hour learning curve.
This is for kids game. Graphic are great but they dont have nay fun game. The ony game she end up playing is the Burger king games. Yes that why the burgetr king game was some of the xbox biggest selling for the time they was out. They was the few truely kid games for the system.

Wtih that said these are $400 systems with $60 games. I don't think they market it to kids, and dont even both. Burgerking games cost $5 and they still made a profit ( almost nothing) on them so some one shoudl start trying to market some 20-30 game for the youngetr crowd to get them on board.

When you system dont let kids play then when those kids grow up they might neever get yur next systems and go with what they know.


In other news...
By encryptkeeper on 5/11/2007 10:16:06 AM , Rating: 1
Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft’s entertainment division, recently went on to say that Wii wouldn’t even match up to one of the last-generation systems.

“The video graphics on it aren't very strong; the box itself is kind of underpowered; it doesn't play DVDs; there are a lot of down-line components [that] aren't actually that interesting,” Bach said in an eWeek interview. “They don't have the graphics horsepower that even Xbox 1 had.”


In other news, Nintendo fans have commented that 6 months into it's life cycle, the Nintendo Wii has already released more good games than the original XBox. More as it develops.




RE: In other news...
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 11:18:09 AM , Rating: 2
Huh?

I had a bunch of great xbox1 games, but so far there has only been one great Wii game and that was a GC port. The rest of the Wii games have been average and definately have a last gen feel which spiffy new controls.


RE: In other news...
By encryptkeeper on 5/11/2007 1:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
And...how many of those "great" XBox games were available on other systems (including PC) and how many were unique to the XBox?


RE: In other news...
By Flunk on 5/11/2007 2:15:16 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, I know the answer to this.... Halo 2! Wait, isn't that coming out for Windows Vista next month?


RE: In other news...
By encryptkeeper on 5/13/2007 6:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
Correct!


just curious
By Crazyeyeskillah on 5/11/2007 9:20:15 AM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know roughly what the pc counterpart would equate to for the wii? What model ati/nvidia gfx card would be comperable on what intel/amd processor?

For that matter, what does the 360 or ps3 compare directly to in terms of power?




RE: just curious
By etempest on 5/11/2007 9:36:02 AM , Rating: 2
There really is no comparison.

PS3 uses a new cpu (new cpu design - from the ground up) called the "cell" developed by IBM, Sony, and one other company.

Xbox 360 uses a modified PowerPC CPU's from IBM (older versions of it were used in the Apple/Mac computers before apple switched to Intel cpu's)

Have no idea what the Wii has in it.


RE: just curious
By Flunk on 5/11/2007 2:25:38 PM , Rating: 3
Wii has a "broadway" custom PowerPC processor that is an IBM Power 4 derivative (I'm thinking about 700mhz but I could be wrong). It's an upgraded version of the "gecko" processor found in the gamecube.

The graphics processor is an upgraded version of the custom "flipper" GPU from the Gamecube designed by a company called ArtX that was purchased by ATi shortly before the Gamecube launched.

All told the Wii is about 2x as powerful as a Gamecube and in estimated performance it should clock in just above the Xbox (1). What MS is saying is that it is inferior because the GPU does not support programmable shaders, not actually performance wise.


Could Be
By creathir on 5/11/2007 7:05:01 AM , Rating: 2
I know from my experience, the Wii does lack in the arena of graphics capabilities, though from a playability standpoint, the Wiimote makes up for this.

The graphics are not bad or anything, they just are not the same as the other next generation console graphics, but to me, this does not matter. As an owner of 4 Xboxs (mods and crap) and 2 360s and 1 Wii, each system has their own advantages and disadvantages. The 360, hands down, creams all of them for online play. While the Wii offers one of the best group play experiences I have ever had. And the good 'ol Xbox... has so many wonderful games that we bought 4 consoles!

Each has their good qualities and bad, but in my opinion, are some of the best console systems ever made.

- Creathir




RE: Could Be
By dcalfine on 5/11/2007 7:15:44 AM , Rating: 2
It outputs 480p, but Nintendo is conscious of the fact that the wii has far inferior graphics. Though theoretically, the PowerPC "broadway" could be pushed to output nicer stuff than the pentium iii inside the original xbox, I'd imagine


RE: Could Be
By jadedeath on 5/11/2007 12:21:46 PM , Rating: 2
Why in gods name would you need 2 360's?

kinda blows any argument you could make about the price of the PS3 if you have any concerns there.

Unless you want to keep one on reserve for when the other gives you the red ring of death.

Logan


on the customer's view...
By swizeus on 5/11/2007 9:27:11 AM , Rating: 4
mmm....
Which do u think matter most for customer, playability and having a fun time with the playing machine or a programmable shader ?




RE: on the customer's view...
By ted61 on 5/11/2007 10:00:59 AM , Rating: 2
You just gotta love them shaders.

I have never actually programmed a shader, but I love them.


missing the point....
By grimdeath on 5/11/2007 11:10:44 AM , Rating: 2
MS is missing the point that the Wii is not meant to be a powerhouse and the fact that its dominating (even with supply problems) shows that people will prefer fun and gameplay to graphic "whore" systems anyday ;)

Dont get me wrong I love playing halo at my friends on his 360 but really with a good gaming PC like I have the high end consoles arent giving me anything I dont already have besides a couple decent console-only titles.




RE: missing the point....
By HackSacken on 5/11/2007 4:46:13 PM , Rating: 3
I think this guy got it right...

A high-end console is nearly/practically a PC. And most gamer's don't need a company to build it for them. I am not bashing Sony or MS, but I think Nintendo is staying behind the "console" line while the competition has crossed it.

I don't see why MS would make such a comment about Nintendo when they (Nintendo) clearly state the purpose of the Wii is not for graphics, but fun gameplay targeting a vast demographic. Hence the project's name being Revolution.

If you were to a put a metaphor to MS's comment, that is like saying, "hey, calamari taste great, but it doesn't look very good."

But, they are "missing the point," calamari will still be eaten b/c its great, not for how appetizing it appears to be.


one thing i don't get
By Gul Westfale on 5/11/2007 9:20:42 AM , Rating: 1
this might be a bit off topic, but i don't quite understand this:

why is the wii underpowered? i know that nintendo is not an engineering company and that it does not have access to the same technology as sony and microsoft wit their custom chip designs, but nintendo was/is working together with IBM and ATI: surely a dual-core powerPC and a radeon 9800-derivative would have been available to them.

their PR people say that it is the gameplay that matters, and i agree- but does a better CPU/GPU really stand in the way of better gameplay? to me this seems like a lame excuse for not having better hardware.




RE: one thing i don't get
By darkpaw on 5/11/2007 9:23:52 AM , Rating: 3
Basically, Nintendo wanted to make a profit from the get go instead of starting out taking a loss like everyone else.

I really wish the thing had some better graphics power, something like a 9800 would have been perfect. The games are fun though for their purpose so I can't complain there, but looking better wouldn't hurt.


By OxBow on 5/11/2007 10:26:45 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft has been really struggling with their PR this week. Three bad public comments and it's only Thursday. Maybe they're trying to compete with Sony for bad press? At least in a competition to see who is dumber, there are enough idiots to go around for all sides to field full teams.

Microsoft has finally seen that their real competition is not Sony but Nintendo. Sony figured this out two years ago when they saw that the Wiimote would put up a tough fight, hence the belated sixaxis. Microsoft kept thinking that Sony was their primary competitor, thinking that the Wii was "so different it's actually in a different market." Now that the sales figures are coming in, I think Microsoft is seeing that the Wii is eating into their marketshare.

I think that all three consoles are so different from each other that in terms of market segmentation, they are all focused on different segments. However, while that is a factor in the shopping aisle, it doesn't neccessarily play through in the living room. Playing a video game isn't something you can multi-task (that kind of defeats the purpose.) When it comes to spending time in from of the idiot box, you really only run one of these at a time. If you're playing the Wii, then you're not playing the 360. With Live so focussed on micropayments, etc. this will have a real affect on their bottom line. Hence, Microsoft is attacking Nintendo however they think they can.

Rather than puffing up such silliness, Microsoft should really be focussed on diversifying their game lineup. Beyond Star Wars Legos and Viva Pinata, there really is nothing on the 360 for kids. Microsoft should learn to Embrace the E rating.




By Takemaru on 5/12/2007 3:11:37 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, it seems nintendo just got sick of fighting over the leets, they got by on nostalgia for years, but its time they refocus on the younger crowd and raise the next generation of nintendo fans while the other consoles move farther and farther away from the "kiddie" market, get them hooked on all those obnoxious nonsensical insanely fun titles we all loved as kids, to ensure themselves that at least a percentage of them will stay loyal in generations to come they're not stealing market share but redefining and expanding the market, people can bash the system all they want but the market has spoken, GFX mean nothing to anyone but the GFX whores who spend their time critizing games for frame rates, it's about fun and innovation, thats what gets the public @ large intrested. They are smart to leave sony and MS to scrap over the jaded fanboys who will throw their money away on a whim, while they scoop up those that while once were the focus of the entire market but are now ignored.


Muslingers...
By masa77 on 5/11/2007 11:03:18 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not surprised by this comment considering the Wii is trouncing the competition. However, companies like Microsoft are starting to sound like a bunch of politicions when they make comments like these. I suppose there's no room for integrity and honor in marketing.




RE: Muslingers...
By masa77 on 5/11/2007 11:04:05 AM , Rating: 2
OOps, I meant mudslingers.


Is the Wii Underpowered?
By Gastrian on 5/11/2007 6:03:05 PM , Rating: 2
I see a lot of people posting that the Wii is underpowered but I find that an unfair assumption.

Yes the Wii's graphical ability may not be that of the PS3 or Xbox360 but to compare purely on that is taken the argument out of context. Not only is the Wii cheaper, but it is far smaller and quieter than its main competitors and these things must be taken into consideration when comparing them.

The Wii is perfectly designed to fit into a living room, it looks good, its small enough to go into most TV units, is wireless so fewer cables are needed and makes very little noise, the Xbox360 power adaptor is longer and about the same height as the Wii.

So for a small, low power, low noise discreet gaming solution that can play games above SD, go online and has internal memory, there is no competition what-so-ever for the Wii and therefore it is not underpowered.




RE: Is the Wii Underpowered?
By BMFPitt on 5/11/2007 8:20:33 PM , Rating: 2
CPUs are currently compared on performance per watt and performance per dollar. If fun could be quantified, I bet the Wii would be the king of fun/watt and fun/dollar hands down.


Does it matter if its fun?
By Ghost Simmo on 5/13/2007 11:06:16 PM , Rating: 2
I mean, really, are you playing the game because it looks pretty or because you enjoy it? I have both a Wii and an xbox 360. I love the interactivity of the wii. Its great playing games where you don't just sit there, and you can enjoy them with friends so much more. Sure its horible for certian types of games like shooters, but thats why I have the 360. Looking forward to halo 3.




RE: Does it matter if its fun?
By AdamKadmon on 5/14/2007 2:24:25 AM , Rating: 2
Without recourse?

I actually agree the original Xbox is more powerful then Wii. Problem is I own the original Xbox , I own the Xbox 360, I own the playstation 1,2 and 3. I play the Wii more then all those other consoles combined. I imagine some of this comes from my girlfriend who hates video games but loves the Wii. Perhaps Nintendo should change it’s marketing campaign from the stupid name of “Wii” to “(IWGYL) it will get you laid”. I realize my name is even more ridiculous then Nintendo’s but at least it’s the truth

Cheerio


Interesting
By moflaherty on 5/11/2007 7:24:04 AM , Rating: 2
It is strange for Microsoft to try to make this distinction. Using their strategy of “see a key technology, embrace it, then extend it”, I would expect them to just build that in the next release and watch the Wii go the way of the Dodo bird…




RE: Interesting
By Gatt on 5/11/2007 1:13:50 PM , Rating: 1
They may be a bit bitter because they did motion sensing years ago and it didn't sell.

I'm still not convinced it's more than a gimmick, or maybe the future of sports games and casual games. I still don't see it as a general solution.


By Serenade on 5/11/2007 2:38:08 PM , Rating: 3
Yet it's still outselling X360. Honestly, these kinds of PR comments doesn't help your company one bit.

It's like saying the prehistoric MS tyrannosaurus weights more than the modern day Nintendo rat. It doesn't matter, the tyrannosaurus is still extinct...




Greated Toy Ever
By BMFPitt on 5/11/2007 8:21:58 PM , Rating: 3
Something I thought would be good to note. The most successful toy in the world for small children is probably an empty cardboard box.

I think there's a lesson there somewhere.




I bet you...
By supaflydaddyc on 5/11/2007 7:06:04 AM , Rating: 2
I bet you with a 4MB expansion pak the Wii would be able to beat out the original Xbox. :-p

Remember that?




Amiga, Betamax, Dreamcast...
By Treripica on 5/11/2007 8:23:42 AM , Rating: 2
...All these were touted to be technically superior to their better received rivals, although I don't believe Xbox will share their fate. Just because you have the best toys doesn't make you the most popular kid on the block.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how controller design changes over the next 2 years.




Who cares?
By KentState on 5/11/2007 10:59:06 AM , Rating: 2
Why does DT even report on these side conversations? We know what the Wii, Xbox, and Xbox 360 are capable of and it's no mystery, yet these unimportant articles seem to pop up which have little impact on what is happening in the market. This is almost as silly as quoting two people fight about the Sega Genesis vs Super NES.




By DLeRium on 5/11/2007 5:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
You never play console games for their quality in graphics and technology. You play them because you can play with your friends when they come over.

Other than that, it's purely stupid. The Wii excels at that. Give it better graphics and I would be happier, but I don't care.

Seriously, none of these games have the high quality graphics a PC game has. Even if they did, how many people actually have an HDTV set? What about 1080p? I highly doubt it. To play games at full 1080p means that eye-candy is downplayed on. You and I both know that with a lot of games on the PC unless you have an 8-series GF with maybe SLI, 1920x1200 (24" WS) with eyecandy won't be smooth all the way.

You can't tinker with eyecandy all the time like I have to when some games can't be played with 4xAA 16xAF, so obviously console games compensate by throwing that crap out. Gears of War and and its jaggies were particularly disturbing to me.

Anyways, that said, how can you EVER beat someone with a keyboard and mouse?

Shooters? No way. The average CS player playing for CAL-O or CAL-IM can headshot the best Halo player on Xbox much faster.

Sports games? NBA Live for game consoles is great when it comes to the slam dunk contest because the joystick helps you out, but in the regular game mode, it's still a lot easier to play on the PC. Why else do you think the AI is retarded on game consoles whereas the AI is godlike on the PC.

Strategy games? Are you kidding? I remember when they had C&C on playstation. Yea, tell that to the Starcraft player that has 200 actions per minute.

MMORPGs? You can't beat WoW. End of story.

PC games rule the way. That's where the graphics are.

You can't expect that much from game consoles. The target audience after all is for kids... and casual gamers.




Games versus tech companies
By Screwballl on 5/12/2007 1:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
Sony and MS are technology companies. They have a wide range of products so their money is spread among many levels of software and hardware. Nintendo has one level: Consoles and their games. This is how they can release a simple product that may appear underpowered compared to its competition but it sells for the fun factor, not the amazing graphics. This is why Sega died when it did, trying to keep things with the high end graphics and couldn't compete with the fun factor.
Another point is: many parents will buy things to keep their kids happy. Since the Wii is cheaper and aimed at kids this is where the sales will go. Nintendo saw this, Sony and MS are aiming their systems at the older generation who tend to have more money but the sales will be lower. It is all about the target crowd.




Graphics are important
By tkSteveFOX on 5/14/2007 7:55:14 AM , Rating: 2
Lets talk about graphics, how did the first party X360games looked-like a high resolution port of the old Xbox.Note We`ve only seen the first party Wii games.Has any one of you looked at Super Mario Galaxy?That game has awesome graphics.Full of shaders and everything.I`t puts in it`s pocket all the first party X360 games and so does Twilight Princess.The Wii is capable of more.And the game developers are not human!Just look at the new Ninja Gaiden on the DS.Graphicly it`s superior to almost all of the PSP games out there.Don`t get confused with mghz and stuff like that.Long ago the mghz race ended.Now it`s all about intruction sets.The Hollywood GPU isn`t a flipper remake it`s a new GPU.And ATI would never make a crappy gpu-they never did and they never will.WHen you think about it the PS3 and the X360 have grater hardware cause they need it to produce allot higher resolution features.Don`t get me wrong the PS3 and the X360 are hardware superior to the Wii.But sayin` the Wii is less powerfull than the original Xbox that`s just funny.Even the gamecube could mach it graphicly or have you forgotten RE4 and Metroid PRime 2 and Super Mario Sunshine?




By corporatecookie on 5/14/2007 11:57:58 AM , Rating: 2
This is pure conjecture ...but my Wii was defective and returned to Nintendo. The company mailed me a new Wii which has a receipt from Nintendo saying that they replaced the system for a cost of 78.00 of which I owed nothing.




XB vs Wii
By wallijonn on 5/14/2007 1:36:03 PM , Rating: 2
Who cares about Vertex Shaders? What we want is anti aliasing and frame rate, along with special effects, like reflective water (bump mapping). Anyone who has played Z:TP knows that there is one level (ice) where reflection is done well. There was a period in the PS1 time line where games became dark to keep up the frame rate. Give us well lighted scenes and keep the frame rate up and all is fine. Yes, the graphics could be much better on the Wii, but the flip side is that if it is a very fast moving game (Unreal Tournament), one is not likely to notice fine graphics, they are more likely to notice colours. 3000 shades of brown and reds (Doom) do not make for a colorful experience. Not every game should be hyper-realistic. Personally, I prefer the graphics of Dragon Quest VII to Final Fantasy XII. But that is just me. If you look at the game Halo, it may not have had realistic graphics, but they were colourful and the game play was spot on (imo).




By Learn2play007 on 5/16/2007 12:53:51 AM , Rating: 2
I am active military and I have a canadian fiancee who lives 35 minutes from the US Washington Border. Spring update and all of a sudden none of the downloadable content works. "This content is not available in your region". My fiancee brought this for me. It has lived at her house forever and now micro$oft forces me to take a fancier looking mod/update that HAXORS all of my attempted downloadables. No help from microsoft on this either. Licensing yadda yadda Rights. FTC where are you. I want a full refund since my Wii is my primary gaming sytem and this 360 box is now completely useless to me conveinently 5 months after I bought. Im so tired of this. When I first bought it I couldn't buy points until I called in. Then all was fine until this stupid update SPRUNG into my box. They might tell you to make a new Player ID in the region you are in ie Canada or Japan. DONT WASTE YOUR TIME! Canadian player ID's have a total of approx 10 downloads combined games and videos. Maybe it has to do with the CRTC that everything needs to be english/french in canada, I have no idea. I have a feeling everywhere else is much worse after all Canada is N.America last time I checked. I will place this on as many sites as I can as long as I am ticked off. Nice one hollywood. Screw your troops when they most likely have nothing else to do for some much needed relaxation behind enemy lines.




Jack of all trade kind of consoles
By Kyanzes on 5/19/2007 5:13:41 AM , Rating: 2
“The video graphics on it aren't very strong; the box itself is kind of underpowered; it doesn't play DVDs; there are a lot of down-line components [that] aren't actually that interesting,”

Ahh, it can't play DVDs! I'm personally tired of stuff like a pen that has a built-in MP3 player, a key-hole finder flashlight and FM radio, and ability to change its color every time the sun shines on it in a different angle. But it can play games! What do you know! It's a gaming console!




I got the wii
By Nik00117 on 5/21/2007 1:43:02 AM , Rating: 2
My sister got the wii for her birthday. My parents said the only reason they bought it is because it was cheaper then the xbox 360, and PS3. I know a lot of parents who are buying the wii simply due to that alone.

I've played on it and have to say it is a lot of fun. We've played hours upon hours of bowling on it.

Its a good faimly system.

Quite honsetly teh makers of wii are the smart ones. They hit a market that NO ONE ELSE has gone after. The casual gamer. The person who sure won't mind spending a coulpe hundred for a system with games already on it, doesn't care much for graphics or reviews. Just wants a nice little system to occupy a few of his free hours with. And there are more of those then there is hardcore gamers.e




Sounds about right
By ZimZum on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: Sounds about right
By Madzombie on 5/11/2007 7:53:25 AM , Rating: 2
That's not a very fair comparison. The XBox was theoretically capable of outputting 720p and 1080i but games on the system almost always used 480p. The only use I can see for 720p or 1080i on either system would be menus and internet browsing.


RE: Sounds about right
By bunnyfubbles on 5/11/2007 8:02:11 AM , Rating: 2
and how many XBox1 games offer greater than 480p?


RE: Sounds about right
By EnzoFX on 5/11/2007 8:05:06 AM , Rating: 3
and it probably upscaled a lower res to get that 1080i... Perhaps someone else can shed light on this. I know that a modded xbox 1 can't handle high def video whatsoever.


RE: Sounds about right
By DokGonzo on 5/11/2007 9:01:11 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I know that a modded xbox 1 can't handle high def video whatsoever.

Hardly surprising seen as the processor was a plain ole 733 Mhz Coppermine Celeron and the GPU was a somewhat modified Geforce 3... It was just a regular office PC disguised as a game console.


RE: Sounds about right
By Aikouka on 5/11/2007 9:11:35 AM , Rating: 2
To my knowledge, the XBOX with XBMC can handle high-definition video... what it can't handle is H264 decoding at the higher resolutions. H264 is MUCH more processor intensive than you'll see from codecs like XVID with the same settings. Afterall, you can't get quality for "free."


RE: Sounds about right
By Mitch101 on 5/11/2007 9:17:40 AM , Rating: 2
Your right I have a few HD vids that I was surprise the original X-Box was able to play. My video settings are at 1080i.

Its a great media center but lets keep in Mind thats not a Microsoft release. It took someone else with a brain to do all that work recognizing the potential of the original X-Box.


RE: Sounds about right
By Flunk on 5/11/2007 2:30:29 PM , Rating: 1
I have an old 700mhz Celeron low profile desktop PC that can do all of what you mentioned and more. This doesn't make the XBox special... That it performs like an outdated PC.


RE: Sounds about right
By chick0n on 5/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: Sounds about right
By Alexvrb on 5/11/2007 9:38:57 AM , Rating: 2
Except that high def video has little to do with high def 3d graphics. Playing high def video often means decoding advanced high compression codecs like H.264 and VC-1. Except in the case of some newer GPUs, there's little GPU acceleration for these codecs, so the bulk of the decoding burden is on the aging Xbox CPU.

To put things in perspective, I doubt the Wii could properly decode the same high res H.264/VC-1.


RE: Sounds about right
By just4U on 5/12/2007 12:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
You know it pretty much don't matter to me what's inside any of the consoles. I don't care how strong or weak it is so long as the title play well it's just not a issue.

In the end there is only one deciding factor on weather or not I buy a console. The titles. All depends on the games and what's being released. If it looks like something I want to play then I will fork out the coin for that particular platform.


"I f***ing cannot play Halo 2 multiplayer. I cannot do it." -- Bungie Technical Lead Chris Butcher











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