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Intel's "Woodcrest" processor shows up with some surprises
Intel announces another server processor

Intel's newest roadmaps have confirmed to DailyTech that Woodcrest will officially launch on June 26, 2006 with shipping models before the end of the same month.  As an added bonus, the company has also announced the TDP envelopes for the upcoming CPUs: 65W for all base models (2.66GHz and lower), 40W for the low voltage 2.33GHz model and 80W for the 3.0GHz model.

Intel's Conroe processor also recently got a birthday, but Woodcrest will launch an entire month earlier.  Both Woodcrest and Conroe are based on the same Core architecture featuring 4MB shared L2 cahce, 1333MHz front side bus and two physical processor cores. 

Intel Woodcrest Pricing
Processor


Clock Speed
FSB


 Price
Xeon 5160


3.0GHz / 1333MHz

$851
Xeon 5150


2.66GHz / 1333MHz

$690
Xeon 5148


2.33GHz / 1333MHz

$519
Xeon 5140


2.33GHz / 1333MHz

$455
Xeon 5130


2.0GHz / 1333MHz

$316
Xeon 5120


1.86GHz / 1066MHz

$256
Xeon 5110


1.60GHz / 1066MHz

$209

The 65nm dual-core Dempsey Netburst CPUs were just announced a few days ago as well. While Woodcrest is not exactly a successor to Dempsey, pricing and performance of the Core-based processor puts it light years ahead of the Dempsey lineup. 

Dell recently announced that the company would get into the AMD server market while simultaneously announcing it would pair its Opteron servers with Woodcrest alternatives.  The Tech Report already had an excellent preview of Woodcrest benchmarks if you have not gotten a chance to check it out yet. 


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amd still has...
By ncage on 5/27/2006 2:29:56 AM , Rating: 2
Amd still has the leg up with you get into 4-8 processors. Intel is using the old FSB infrastructure still which will severly limit bandwith. I will be getting a conroe because for one processor it won't matter but take 4-8 dual to quad core processors and your going to see serious problems.




RE: amd still has...
By redbone75 on 5/27/2006 4:08:53 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but the vast majority of the market is for 2-4 processor systems, where Woodcrest will have the leg up.


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/27/2006 5:13:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah, but the vast majority of the market is for 2-4 processor systems, where Woodcrest will have the leg up


1. None of these Woodcrests are 4 processor chips, they aren't due until well into next year
2. Opteron will still have a leg up on 4P because of HT interconnects
3. Dual Core K8L is due in H1 07 as well


RE: amd still has...
By blackbrrd on 5/27/2006 6:58:38 AM , Rating: 2
The only test I have seen is the 3ghz Woodcrest vs the 2,6ghz Opteron, both in dual socket configurations, and the Woodcrest is beating the Opteron, but not by much. A 2,8ghz Opteron would be very competative.

The tests also show the Woodcrest to scale worse than the Opteron, for instance in one benchmark the woodcrest has a handsome lead in a single threaded benchmark, but the same benchmark with four threads show the Woodcrest barely ahead of the 2,6ghz Opteron.


RE: amd still has...
By tonjohn on 5/27/2006 1:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
3. Dual Core K8L is due in H1 07 as well

Incorrect. K8L isn't due out until around 2008.

1H07 will bring us Deerhound though - AMD's first quadcore CPU. Deerhound will be exclusive to Socket F.

Also, all socket F Opterons will be Dual-core and eventually multi-core.


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/27/2006 10:02:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Incorrect. K8L isn't due out until around 2008

No, the quad-core K8L isn't due until 2008, the dual-core is due in H1 2007.


RE: amd still has...
By tonjohn on 5/28/2006 1:26:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, the quad-core K8L isn't due until 2008, the dual-core is due in H1 2007.

I have never read anything that suggests that. Please provide me with a quote+link.

All reliable sources have said that K8L in any shape or form won't hit the market until around 2008.

Revision G X2's will hit around December of '06 with the rest of the Rev. G CPUs falling in place throughout 1H07. Rev. G will bring us 65nm and maybe some other surprises. But Rev. G != K8L.

So if you say K8L is supposed to arrive sometime 1H07, why would AMD be launching Rev. G CPUs at the sametime? Doesn't make any sense...


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/28/2006 2:35:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have never read anything that suggests that. Please provide me with a quote+link

It began with the HKEPC updated roadmap...
The Reg did a blurb as well...(the other link is in the piece)
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/04/04/amd_k8l_ro...

"Roadmap AMD's next-generation AMD64 core, codenamed 'K8L', has begun appearing on the company's roadmap under that name, kicking off with a H1 2007 appearance, according to documentation leaked on the web"
"A roadmap image posted at Chinese-language site HKEPC confirms past speculation and leaks that K8L's desktop debut will come in AMD's first 65nm dual-core Athlon 64 X2 and 64 FX CPUs next year"

I know that Kris did an article here on K8L being in 2008, but when I asked him he said that it was about the quad-cores and that he had no solid data on dual cores...


RE: amd still has...
By tonjohn on 5/28/2006 12:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
That still doesn't make sense b/c Rev. G is not K8L based so why would AMD release both Rev. G and K8L at the same time? They wouldn't.

If K8L was to come before 2008, it would come after Rev. G had been fully released - so end of 2Q07 to sometime int 3Q07.


RE: amd still has...
By josmala on 5/28/2006 4:38:21 PM , Rating: 2
Well manufacturing costs and volume for different markets?
And besides they are not necessary coming at exacly same month.
One may come in january while other will come in march, and still hit the same quarter.


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/28/2006 6:52:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And besides they are not necessary coming at exacly same month

Exactly...remember that H1 includes January to June of 07.


RE: amd still has...
By tonjohn on 5/29/2006 1:20:42 AM , Rating: 2
Since when has AMD launched two different chip revisions in the same quarter? Simply doesn't add up.

As I said before, it is possible for K8L to come late 2Q to anytime 2H07 but anything 1Q or even early 2Q is out of the question.


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/29/2006 9:21:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since when has AMD launched two different chip revisions in the same quarter?

They haven't...but they've never had access to 3 world-class Fabs before either (with another on the way).
One of the advantages to all of the new production capacity is that they are able to accelerate newer model releases.


RE: amd still has...
By tonjohn on 5/29/2006 12:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
While they may be able to accelerate newer model releases, it still does not make any sense financially to launch two new revisions of their CPUs in the same quarter.

I'm sorry but unless I hear convincing evidence otherwise, I'm sticking with the K8L won't come any sooner than late quarter 2 to anytime second half of '07.

This has been a nice discussion though and I appreciate that :):)


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/29/2006 10:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While they may be able to accelerate newer model releases, it still does not make any sense financially to launch two new revisions of their CPUs in the same quarter


How about this scenario...
What if they drop prices on their current and Rev G chips, but charge a premium for K8L? This way they could counter Intel's dumping of Pentium D and still maintain a nice ASP for the high end...


RE: amd still has...
By rmaharaj on 5/27/2006 8:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. None of these Woodcrests are 4 processor chips, they aren't due until well into next year


No one said that they were. Dual core processors in a dual socket motherboard = 2x2 = 4. We're talking 2-4 socket systems, not quad-core.


RE: amd still has...
By Viditor on 5/27/2006 10:06:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
No one said that they were. Dual core processors in a dual socket motherboard = 2x2 = 4. We're talking 2-4 socket systems, not quad-core


Ummm...I didn't say anything about quad core...
I will be more explicit.
Woodcrest systems cannot use more than 2 CPU sockets until well into next year.
A Woodcrest DP is for a 1-2 processor system, and the Woodcrest MP is for 4 or more CPUs (cores don't enter into it).
The Woodcrest MP will not be released until well into 2007...


RE: amd still has...
By hstewarth on 5/29/2006 5:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong.. these motherboard using 5000p and 5000x chips has a complete new bus in designed - each core has its own bus - plus the memory is on serial FB-Dimm which is suppose to have 3x speed impreovement.


3GHz for $850?
By Howard on 5/27/2006 1:06:43 AM , Rating: 1
Looks like the Opterons lose this time...




RE: 3GHz for $850?
By Viditor on 5/27/2006 5:10:43 AM , Rating: 2
These are unqualified server chips...not desktop processors.
By the time systems are qualified and ready the roadmap and pricing will be quite different.


RE: 3GHz for $850?
By hstewarth on 5/27/2006 2:59:28 PM , Rating: 1
Just think it about with all the indications of Conroe, you got the expect that server chip with high speed bus, high memory rate and faster processor is going to be good. Not to mention that they are two of them.

I have feeling once the reviews of this processor with full 667Mhz ram are out, there is going be quite a shake in server industry.


RE: 3GHz for $850?
By Viditor on 5/27/2006 10:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have feeling once the reviews of this processor with full 667Mhz ram are out, there is going be quite a shake in server industry

Using normal 667 MHz DDR2 instead of the FBDimms would slow them down significantly, and using 667 MHz FBDs would increase the power requirements significantly...even the 533 MHz FBDs require active cooling.


RE: 3GHz for $850?
By hstewarth on 5/29/2006 5:11:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Using normal 667 MHz DDR2 instead of the FBDimms would slow them down significantly, and using 667 MHz FBDs would increase the power requirements significantly...even the 533 MHz FBDs require active cooling.


I think you are missing my point here, the 667Mhz DDR2 ram is FD-Dimm, FD-Dimm use the same memory has current DDR2 ram but include a special controller chip.

I think the main reason that they did not test them now - is because the Motherboards are also for Xeon 50xx series which bus is 1066 or 2x533, while the Woodcrest is 1333Mhz or 2x667. But the ram chips are identicle to one in existing DDR2 dimms but allow for larger compacity.


RE: 3GHz for $850?
By Viditor on 5/29/2006 10:30:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think you are missing my point here, the 667Mhz DDR2 ram is FD-Dimm, FD-Dimm use the same memory has current DDR2 ram but include a special controller chip

Well...firstly it's FB-Dimm (FB stands for Fully Buffered).
Secondly, while it does use the same memory chips inside, it runs quite differently. It has 3 times the throughput and can perform reads and writes simultaneously.
Thirdly, they run MUCH MUCH hotter! If you look at the woodcrest review again, you'll notice that the 533 MHz FBDimms require active cooling...normal 533 MHz DDR2 are obviously nowhere NEAR that hot.


WHat happened to Apache?
By BaronMatrix on 5/27/2006 12:14:29 PM , Rating: 2
None of these tests of Woodcrest show Apache testing, where Operon had a 200-400% lead. Data warehousing was not shown either. Opteron is primarily server, not workstation.




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/30/2006 11:42:46 AM , Rating: 2
If you want go get into Webserver and big datastorage/database, I will have to point out that anyone running big large servers is going with Power(IBM), Sparc(Sun), Itanium(Intel). Not a scaled 8 procesor configuration from AMD or Intel. Your getting away from yourself. The demand for an 8 processor system is very low since its price point is getting close to the real server market. Xeon and Opteron are targeted at 2-4 processor servers, sure it can do 8, but theres no real need for it.


Price Cut
By AggressorPrime on 5/27/2006 1:12:46 AM , Rating: 3
It is about time for AMD to revisit the age of K7 pricing.




Same as Opteron Launch
By Slaimus on 5/27/2006 9:55:54 AM , Rating: 2
Opterons also launched ahead of Athlon 64s. The server chips can be clocked lower and sold for higher prices. They need to recoup the fixed cost of developing a new architecture.




Dell + AMD?
By Soccerman06 on 5/27/2006 12:50:19 AM , Rating: 1
Dell using AMD? Blasphomy I tell you!




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