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  (Source: Paramount Pictures)
A crook can't cut off your finger and access your iPhone

One of the biggest features that Apple announced on new iPhone 5S during its event earlier this week was the Touch ID system. Apple has now offered more details on Touch ID that may help some that are concerned about privacy feel better.

Apple says that the scanner doesn't store actual images of the user's fingerprint on the device. Instead, the ID system stores "fingerprint data" which remains encrypted inside the iPhone’s 64-bit A7 processor.

The Wall Street Journal reports that even if someone cracked the encryption chip, it would be highly unlikely that they could reverse engineer someone's fingerprint from the digital signature. Apple also says that it won't allow third-party applications to use the fingerprint scanner for the time being, and people who use Touch ID also have to create a passcode as a backup.

One important aspect of the Touch ID system is that the passcode must be used to unlock the phone if the device is rebooted or hasn't been unlocked and 48 hours. With all that said, the iPhone fingerprint scanner doesn't work perfectly. For instance, testers have said that the device doesn't work well if your fingers are damp from sweat, water, or lotion.


Apple even went so far as to point out that if a criminal hacked off your finger, they would be unable to unlock your phone. Apple says the Touch ID sensor searches for vitality signs to ensure that the finger is attached to the hand of a living person.

Sources: WSJ [1], [2]



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Qualifications for iphone5s users
By BRB29 on 9/12/2013 11:21:15 AM , Rating: 2
1. Must not have sweat glands in one hand
2. Must have no need for lotion in one hand
3. Must be alive




RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 12:26:47 PM , Rating: 2
4. must be mentally retarded.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 12:49:45 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad I don't know you personally as well. People like you get so upset and take jokes like this so seriously and personally it astounds me.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:28:49 PM , Rating: 5
I hear these jokes all the time, but the thing is, it's not in any way intended to compare to someone who actually has a mental handicap. It's a general insult to just give implication that a person is not very intelligent. People just overact.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By Jeffk464 on 9/12/2013 1:39:06 PM , Rating: 2
you guys are slightly off topic


By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:42:53 PM , Rating: 5
Nah, we're very off topic :)


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 1:49:17 PM , Rating: 1
Just shaving a Yack


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 2:28:29 PM , Rating: 5
i talk like this in real life, too. anonymity doesn't make me talk differently.
if i had said, "apple customers are dumb", would you then be upset that your kids are dumb?
i unfortunately work with the public, and i have found that often times, the parents/guardians of handicapped people are waaaaaaay more retarded than their kids.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By artemicion on 9/12/2013 5:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
Two types of annoying people:

1) People who get offended and preachy when someone else uses a term like "retarded" in circumstances when it is fairly clear that they did not intend to offend mentally handicapped people.

2) People who deliberately continue to use terms like "retarded" around other people who have made it clear that they find it offensive. You had the choice between being polite and accommodating on one hand and doing whatever the hell you want with no regard to others on the other. Clearly you are the type of person who choses the latter.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 9:40:56 PM , Rating: 3
i find the term "hell" offensive as it clearly does not exist. you only chose the word to hurt my feelings. i'm calling the internet police on you.


By slunkius on 9/13/2013 12:49:55 AM , Rating: 2
your books are dumb, most likelly were written by retarded person :)


By Alphafox78 on 9/12/2013 4:05:10 PM , Rating: 3
dont be retarded


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By FaaR on 9/12/2013 5:35:07 PM , Rating: 1
Jokes are meant to be funny. Your post is simply a not particularly subtly veiled insult.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By anactoraaron on 9/12/2013 12:56:19 PM , Rating: 5
I also am a parent to a special needs child, but I also recognize the difference between 'special needs' and 'mental retardation.'

Mental retardation is basically an IQ under 70. 'Special needs' can mean anything from autism to down syndrome to physically handicapped.

So if you equate mental retardation to a low IQ his post isn't offensive, unless those who are mentally retarded get offended and don't want to be grouped in with 'those people' :)


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By Dr of crap on 9/12/2013 1:02:11 PM , Rating: 3
NO it's called a joke and NO ONE can see that anymore. People lighten up.

The entire purpose of a joke is to pick on peoples flaws. Does no one remember Don Rickles?? Best look him up. He couldn't make it anywhere in todays messed up society.
Everyone needs to stop being so damn P C !


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:30:58 PM , Rating: 2
A joke is only of bad taste if you take it personally. Many good jokes root from flaws or stereotypes, and if you don't take it personally you'll get a good laugh out of it. Don't be so uptight.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 2:30:51 PM , Rating: 3
T-T-TIMMEH!!!


By Just Tom on 9/12/2013 7:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
Put on a sweater.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By ClownPuncher on 9/12/2013 1:55:43 PM , Rating: 5
I find your whiney bullshit to be more offensive than retard jokes.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 2:03:20 PM , Rating: 1
There is a pill for that.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By ClownPuncher on 9/12/2013 3:33:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'll need it before I get old and Gran Torino cranky.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 3:35:51 PM , Rating: 2
If it's age related, then I would suggest the blue pill


By Cheesew1z69 on 9/12/2013 3:48:39 PM , Rating: 2
Cialis :o


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By embedded_bill on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 2:51:12 PM , Rating: 2
if you weren't pissed you wouldn't have bothered to spend hours here, telling us why you're so not pissed.
people like you make me sick, because you want everything to be lame and dull just because you are. i too know people with handicaps, and i include them in jokes because you know, they're not outcasts, they're PEOPLE.
aside from that, if you really can't tell the difference between a joke and an insult, you do not belong on the internet. retard.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/12/13, Rating: 0
By GulWestfale on 9/12/2013 3:35:54 PM , Rating: 3
we are not allowed to argue with people who have handicapped children? like we are not allowed to argue against obama because his blackness automatically makes anyone who disagrees with him racist? hahahahahaaa


By Kiffberet on 9/16/2013 8:39:44 AM , Rating: 2
haha

In England 'pissed' means drunk. 'pissed off' means angry.

Either way, it works with your post.


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By anactoraaron on 9/12/2013 3:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
Actually it DOES make a difference as a person with high functioning autism COULD have an IQ higher than the average score of 120. And who cares if someone calls your mentally retarded child mentally retarded? Will it make you no longer love them because someone said that?

There's a difference in being 'tuned into it' and being realistic - most notably those people being 'tuned into it' are separated from reality and are just simply finding clever synonyms that don't 'feel' offensive to them but basically mean the same thing- thus the creation of being PC (politically correct). Are you a homo? Nah I'm gay. Got a retard in the house? Nope, but we have a special needs child. The whole damn thing is just ridiculous if you stop to think about it.

Does it matter what your special needs child is labeled as or how he or she is labeled? Not to me, because I love my child no matter the label or word associated with her. And that's what's most important.

Mental retardation actually applies almost perfectly to some that buy those shiny iThings with the wifis and geebees as most of those who do so are IMPULSE BUYING. People who impulse buy are likely not using ANY critical reasoning/thinking - giving an impulse buyer an IQ around 70 or lower. Mental retardation actually almost fits perfectly.

At the end of the day, it's just a phone. If it's a status symbol or how you feel you fit in with the 'cool' crowd then it's something else entirely, and just sad.


By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 5:53:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually it DOES make a difference as a person with high functioning autism COULD have an IQ higher than the average score of 120.

In general you are right, the floor and ceiling of high functioning autism contrasts significantly vs other mental disabilities, however in this example this has nothing to do with my kids it’s just my response to a comment flippant in nature. People say flippant things and I often reply, I’m not sentimental about it, it actually makes me smile when people get real upset on topics like this, I’m a bit of a sociopath that way. It definitely worked today!

quote:
At the end of the day, it's just a phone.

It is just a phone, but one that can send and receive text messages too, just sayin...


RE: Qualifications for iphone5s users
By chromal on 9/12/2013 1:36:01 PM , Rating: 2
You're right, we should drop use of the medical term 'Retarded' and return to the more sensitive terms 'imbecile' and 'feeble-minded.' Happy?


By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 1:47:07 PM , Rating: 2
Sure... very happy thanks for chiming in, case closed.


By Piiman on 9/14/2013 12:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure "retarded" isn't a medical term.
This whole thread is retarded. opps


By SAN-Man on 9/12/2013 6:04:16 PM , Rating: 3
That term has been in popular usage going on 30 years now.

Give it up already.


By testerguy2 on 9/12/2013 1:26:16 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
1. Must not have such sweaty fingers that they are dripping wet
2. Must not still have lotion all over their finger which hasn't soaked in
3. Must be alive


FTFY.

A shocking requirement list I say, because I constantly run into lotion covered, dripping fingered dead iPhone users.


By Jeffk464 on 9/12/2013 1:46:43 PM , Rating: 2
Hey wait a second. What if they hacked off your finger, skinned it, and then wore the skin like a finger glove? Wouldn't the phone pick up vital signs?


Interesting quote choice at the bottom
By Labotomizer on 9/12/2013 11:19:33 AM , Rating: 1
"My sex life is pretty good" - Steve Jobs.

And yet another possibility for making the sensor not work, assuming you get your fingers damp.




RE: Interesting quote choice at the bottom
By BRB29 on 9/12/2013 11:25:01 AM , Rating: 4
Considering he is dead, No! Steve Jobs cannot use the iphone5S


By AstroCreep on 9/12/2013 2:10:40 PM , Rating: 4
...he's holding it wrong.


RE: Interesting quote choice at the bottom
By retrospooty on 9/12/2013 11:26:09 AM , Rating: 2
FFS, wash up afterwards... and dry off before touching your phone. ;)


RE: Interesting quote choice at the bottom
By embedded_bill on 9/12/2013 12:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
I smell a marketing opportunity...

THE WORLDS MOST HYGENIC PHONE!

Imagine the lines in front of the Apple Stores


RE: Interesting quote choice at the bottom
By retrospooty on 9/12/2013 9:01:22 PM , Rating: 3
No I don't think most of those people get laid. If you're spending a day standing in line at a store to buy a phone, you definitely arent getting any.


By BRB29 on 9/13/2013 10:24:18 AM , Rating: 2
Are you sure?
I have a date with this beautiful girl named Siri. My friends say she's perfect for me and know exactly what I want.


Thats not Fair!
By ReloadAO on 9/12/2013 11:20:03 AM , Rating: 4
Not for Zombies... so discriminating...




RE: Thats not Fair!
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 12:44:24 PM , Rating: 5
Then I don't understand who they're targeting. Buyers of Apple products have historically all been zombies.


RE: Thats not Fair!
By Rukkian on 9/12/2013 2:24:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Then I don't understand who they're targeting. Buyers of Apple products have historically all been zombies.


Not exactly Zombies, just Sheeple, so they should be okay.


RE: Thats not Fair!
By ProZach on 9/13/2013 8:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
Announcer: ...the new EyePhone 2.0! [crowd cheers]
Mom: [watching crowd] Dumb bas**rds!


RE: Thats not Fair!
By PitViper007 on 9/13/2013 2:40:41 PM , Rating: 2
So this is what starts the zombie apocalypse......


forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By cheth on 9/12/2013 3:20:11 PM , Rating: 2
It's interesting how there's more press on the fingerprint sensor than the better camera in the 5S. Perhaps I'm not seeing what the fuss is about but sharper images, improved color/light balance, better indoor photos. All these advances are automatic and all are far more useful to me than replacing my App Store password with my fingerprint or unlocking my phone with my fingerprint (yawn!)

Maybe it's the shutterbug in me talking..




RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By Florinator on 9/12/2013 5:14:40 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, Nokia Lumia 1020, hello? If you're really serious about phone cameras...


RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By Tony Swash on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/12/2013 6:25:56 PM , Rating: 2
You are easily impressed by a lot apparently....


RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By Tony Swash on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By retrospooty on 9/12/2013 8:58:58 PM , Rating: 2
I am pretty sure what he means is that you can put an apple logo on a Yugo and you would be impressed and call it the greatest car ever built


RE: forget fingerprint, I'll take better camera
By Tony Swash on 9/13/2013 6:54:44 AM , Rating: 2
I never liked this

http://www.theantiroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011...

although seeing my daughters response when she first saw one I understood who it was aimed at.

I loathed this

http://www.theantiroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011...

I thought this was terrible

http://cdn-static.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/blog/terr...

and pretty much anything Apple made in the 1990s (other than the OS) I thought was very boring.


By retrospooty on 9/13/2013 8:36:18 AM , Rating: 3
LOL... So did the rest of the planet, but I am surprised you admit it, even for products long out of production.

Anything current?


Problem with the fingerprint stuff ...
By ZorkZork on 9/12/2013 11:52:21 AM , Rating: 2
... is that a hacker (or your favorite intelligence service) could hack the phone to report your scanned fingerprint to a site on the internet every time you scan your finger to unlock the phone. No need to break into the A7.




RE: Problem with the fingerprint stuff ...
By testerguy2 on 9/12/2013 1:27:33 PM , Rating: 1
The fingerprint never goes through the phone software you deluded idiot.


RE: Problem with the fingerprint stuff ...
By ZorkZork on 9/12/2013 6:37:23 PM , Rating: 2
Does it make you feel better to use such words?

Regardless, can you point me to information that shows that the fingerprint sensor is not reachable through software that can be modified from the outside? I would really like to see that detailed analysis of the hardware that shows that this is impossible.


By Cheesew1z69 on 9/12/2013 6:48:16 PM , Rating: 2
His information is....Apple saying it.


Dilbert's take on the iPhone 5S announcement
By Florinator on 9/12/2013 12:28:03 PM , Rating: 1
This is what Dilbert thinks about the new iPhone:

I had two reactions to Apple's new iPhone 5S announcement:

1. It is a huge disappointment and not much improved.

2. I gotta get me one.

How does Apple do that?




RE: Dilbert's take on the iPhone 5S announcement
By Makaveli on 9/12/2013 2:56:50 PM , Rating: 4
The answer to your question is simple.

Drink less apple juice!


By Florinator on 9/12/2013 5:13:16 PM , Rating: 2
It wasn't my question... it was Dilbert's... from the Dilbert Facebook page this morning.


The really question is...
By JackBurton on 9/12/2013 9:33:41 PM , Rating: 1
How long will it take Samsung to rip Apple off and add a fingerprint scanner to their phone?




RE: The really question is...
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/13/2013 8:16:21 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, how long, because Apple TOTALLY had it first...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/30/article-...


RE: The really question is...
By retrospooty on 9/13/2013 8:20:43 AM , Rating: 2
Your link doesnt actually spell it out. You have to spell it out to JAck like he is 3 years old.

Jack, its been done before OK. Apple isnt the first OK? Got it? It's not an idea others will copy from Apple, its an idea Apple copied from others. OK?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFmIgNhg0M4


RE: The really question is...
By retrospooty on 9/13/2013 8:22:26 AM , Rating: 2
I gforgot to spell out the when for our "special" friend.

The video above:

"Uploaded on Feb 22, 2011
This video shows you how to set up and use the fingerprint scanner on the Motorola Atrix 4G , the first ever dual core cell phone to be released in the United States. Music courtesy of incompetech.com"


What da fuq
By spamreader1 on 9/12/2013 12:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
How the hell did they test this?
A "no fingers were harmed in the creation of this device" discaimer isn't there....




RE: What da fuq
By Jeffk464 on 9/12/2013 1:42:46 PM , Rating: 2
Cadaver fingers no doubt, pretty sure they didn't hack fingers off of live people for the test.


RE: What da fuq
By Schrag4 on 9/12/2013 3:45:24 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, wouldn't they have to verify that the finger worked while attached to a live person first before testing the same finger "not alive"? If I was going to help them test this feature, I'd much rather them hack off my finger than have them test it after killing me! LOL

In all seriousness, I bet it's pretty easy to trick the scanner into thinking the finger is "dead" by cutting off the blood flow using some kind of tourniquet temporarily.


Everything old is new again
By Solandri on 9/12/2013 2:12:19 PM , Rating: 3
Because it's Apple doing it.

The fingerprint scanner tech is not new. Laptops have had it for about 10 years now (my 2004 laptop had it). Apple bought the company last year (and unceremoniously dropped support for all the laptop vendors who had bought the devices).
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/27/us-authe...

The iPhone isn't even the first phone to have a fingerprint scanner. The Motorola ATRIX had it almost 3 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFmIgNhg0M4




RE: Everything old is new again
By ven1ger on 9/12/2013 4:17:18 PM , Rating: 3
My daughter's HP laptop, bought about 2 years ago, has the fingerprint thing. She's never found a reason to use the fingerprint scanner. Guess it's one of those things like throwing in things that most people won't use but sounds nicer for marketing when you have a list of things to differentiate against the competition.

Don't know how useful this technology will be on the new phones since it seems to be one more thing to go wrong or to complicate things when trying to use your equipment.


desperate to find faults?
By Nortel on 9/12/2013 11:50:20 AM , Rating: 2
Before the units are even out (and after media praised the sample units for their accuracy) we see negative press on one reviewer and it gets front page news on DT.

quote:
damp from sweat, water, or lotion

Yes, I would expect smudging the scanner with hand lotion would cause it to not work in the same vein with 'closing your eyes will not work with eye retina scanner' headline.

I'll wait for the big players to do a real review before harping on this technology.




RE: desperate to find faults?
By Dr of crap on 9/12/2013 1:06:04 PM , Rating: 2
Good post.

Yes of course you can't drive if you cant see out the windshield, of course you can use motion detection if your a quad, of course you cant drink liquids if you don't have a cup or bowl, but we don't have common sense any longer as this proves!

Thanks for the laugh!


Interesting
By chris2618 on 9/12/2013 2:05:05 PM , Rating: 2
If it doesn't work when fingers are wet then it looks like it is some type of capacitive sensor or maybe an array. Depending on the resolution i would expect it would be hard to reproduce a fingerprint if it measures capacitance. If it is using capacitance i would expect it would have a large margin to account for changes in the capacitance




RE: Interesting
By Solandri on 9/12/2013 2:14:38 PM , Rating: 2
Yes it's a capacitive sensor. It reads minor variances in the underlying structure of the flesh underneath your fingertip as you slide it over the scanner.


huh?
By kleinma on 9/12/2013 12:52:46 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Instead, the ID system stores "fingerprint data" which remains encrypted inside the iPhone’s 64-bit A7 processor.


This would imply that the A7 has some sort of onboard non volatile storage, is that the case?




You're fingering it wrong!
By xyn081s on 9/12/2013 2:18:27 PM , Rating: 2
.




By haukionkannel on 9/12/2013 3:19:49 PM , Rating: 2
So is this "You are holding it wrong 2" or did I miss something?




Video of fingerprint training on a 5s
By Tony Swash on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
By Rukkian on 9/13/2013 12:53:09 PM , Rating: 1
I am completely shocked that Tony would be impressed by something apple puts out. I am sure if the exact same video was about another brand, it would be horrible and ill conceived.

I actually think that a well done fingerprint scanner would be useful, but then I can see merits in multiple products and not a paid schill by one company. I will not buy an apple cause I am not a child and dont like being told what I can do, what I can install, what is the default apps, etc, but I do recommend ios devices to the peole I know (like my wife) that never wants to see any change, and is not willing to try something new.


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