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Google moves forward with its digital book scanning project, without Harvard's help... for now

An article published in the Harvard Crimson indicates the Harvard University Library has decided not to participate in the Google book scanning project, unless it makes more financial sense later on.

The company first announced four years ago its intention to make digital copies of books from some of the largest libraries around the world available for free over the internet.  Google has scanned more than 7 million books for the Google Book Search, and will likely scan millions of other titles in the future.  The service is especially useful for any book titles that are now out-of-print, with all public domain books available to download as PDFs for free.

Even though the Harvard library was an original supporter of the project, it seems the $125 million monetary agreement Google reached with book publishers has left the library frustrated.  The university let Google scan books that are out of print and no longer copyrighted, but has been hesitant to give the Mountain View, CA-based company full access to its library.

The U.S. District Court in New York must finalize the settlement, and university officials said they would reconsider their stance if the court chooses to change the financial agreement for more "reasonable terms," school officials said.

"The settlement provides no assurance that the prices charged for access will be reasonable, especially since the subscription services will have no real competitors (and) the scope of access to the digitized books is in various ways both limited and uncertain," said Robert Darnton, Harvard University Library director said.

The financial deal, assuming it's approved by the courts, will finally end a lawsuit that was filed by the Authors Guild and several different large book publishers.  A digital library of books -- both copyrighted and out of print -- would offer internet users a valuable tool in furthering their literary knowledge, while also giving publishers a way to generate further revenue.



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By BigPeen on 11/5/2008 1:40:33 PM , Rating: 5
Wow, commie. Good work. Business belongs everywhere. You wouldn't have books if authors had to work for free. This is not "knowledge". It's books. Knowledge is F=ma, not a book with that written down in it!


By The0ne on 11/5/2008 1:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
I think you two are arguing over two diferrent aspect of "working for free" scenarios.

Most companies won't survive if they had their employees work for free. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Your point however comes from the fact they some people have the time, money, support to provide to provide their services for certain product(s). However, income is still a concern to most authors even if it isn't the first. A person can't survive doing things for free.


By FITCamaro on 11/5/2008 2:19:52 PM , Rating: 2
Do you think that the people who develop those things work for free if they have a full time job? No. And many linux distros and even Open Office get donations. Open source != free either.

My bills don't pay themselves. And student loan companies don't take the excuse of "I was working for free towards a better tomorrow" as a reason to erase my debt.


By wordsworm on 11/5/2008 11:22:45 PM , Rating: 2
Hell has opened up a skating park. First time I've ever agreed with you FIT.

Another point to make in regards to the Linux argument is that the developers are making money. I believe Linus himself got a cool $20 million. Many others make money from support. I don't see the same thing happening for books. Also, Linus and others have made that choice. But all that should be irrelevant. If Linus had decided to patent and sell his OS, then his right to do so should have been protected.


By dever on 11/6/2008 12:40:34 PM , Rating: 2
As soon as I read you were in business for yourself, I realized you be talking free markets soon. Welcome to the unlimited light of human freedom.

Yes, the key phrase here is "voluntary cooperation." Open source authors agree to do work for some compensation other than an immediate financial payback.

Most authors of books require a financial compensation and should not be forced to give away their labor.

Some give away their work for a less immediate payback of recognition and contacts. It's a gamble, but it often brings future financial rewards.

All in all, people should be free. Forcing someone else to work without compensation is not freedom, it's slavery.


By Parhel on 11/5/2008 2:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
Linux didn't get where it is today by programmers working for free. The kernel, and other bits and pieces of it did, but for the most part development took place because businesses use Linux. When one of those businesses had a need for further functionality, they paid programmers to add that functionality to the OS.


By ggordonliddy on 11/5/2008 7:16:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's what libraries are for, you utter and complete buffoon.

You are suggesting that authors never be paid for their work. Do you really think many books will continue to be written? How incredibly stupid can you be?


By quiksilvr on 11/6/2008 3:28:51 AM , Rating: 2
Isn't this about Harvard LIBRARY?


By FITCamaro on 11/5/2008 7:16:52 PM , Rating: 2
So go spend a year and a half to two years of your life writing a book and give it away for free. Let me know how that works out for you.


By omnicronx on 11/5/2008 2:45:13 PM , Rating: 3
You've obviously never used the service, its not free, with copyright material you get to view a certain amount of pages, then it will ask you to pay for the book.

From the Google site:
quote:
Many of the books you can preview on Google Book Search are still in copyright, and are displayed with the permission of publishers and authors. You can browse these "limited preview" titles just as you would in a bookstore, but you won't be able to see more pages than the copyright holder has made available. When you've accessed the maximum number of pages allowed for a book, any remaining pages will be omitted from your preview. You can order full copies of any book using the "Buy this book" links to the right of the preview page.
All of this is done with the permission of the author of course, so your entire logic is quite flawed in this situation. There is no reason other than being a small inconvenience, that Harvard does not want to be a part of this system.


By Spivonious on 11/5/2008 2:06:57 PM , Rating: 2
More importantly, these are library books. Does Harvard charge a fee to be a member at their library? If not, then there's no reason they shouldn't be available in full text on the Web.


By Smartless on 11/5/2008 2:11:58 PM , Rating: 4
Tuition?


By FITCamaro on 11/5/2008 2:20:41 PM , Rating: 2
Tuition pays for books in libraries. In public libraries, your tax dollars pay for the books. Libraries don't get books for free.


By rcc on 11/6/2008 11:57:24 AM , Rating: 2
Oh, the disillusionment!!!!!! You mean that books don't grow on trees, software doesn't fall from the skies like rain, and music does not ring forth spontaneously from the bosum of Mother Earth?

Damn, next you'll be saying there is no Santa Claus.


By cornelius785 on 11/5/2008 3:55:55 PM , Rating: 3
I think the digitizing of books should be done to ensure that information from books isn't lost because the pages are deteriotating, people are carelessly using them, people ripping out pages, pages just falling out and getting lost, and so on. We have the technology now to preserve the information in books for essentially forever, why not make it make it happen? Completely free to all or mostly free with some pay portions, I wouldn't mind much.


By chronodekar on 11/5/2008 9:30:14 PM , Rating: 2
Buisness matters aside, I think the crux of the problem is control of distribution.

In their library, Harvard get to dictate who reads their books. But online, I doubt if even Google can control who accesses what.

So, with control of distribution lost (in digitised medium), how DO you compensate authors?

Furthermore, if all the books were avaliable online, WHY would anyone go to the Harvard library? You might as well shut down the place.


By modus2 on 11/6/2008 1:16:34 AM , Rating: 3
From what I understand you got it wrong, Harvard seems hesitant to join the project because of fears of restrictions and overcommercialization rather than seeking a bigger piece of the pie

"The settlement provides no assurance that the prices charged for access will be reasonable, especially since the subscription services will have no real competitors (and) the scope of access to the digitized books is in various ways both limited and uncertain," said Robert Darnton, Harvard University Library director said.


I'd subscribe
By wordsworm on 11/6/2008 12:22:14 AM , Rating: 1
I would be only too happy to have a great library with software running it somewhat like what Questia has (its online catalogue sucks, but the reader is great.) I'd easily pay $100 give or take for such a service.

My lifestyle often has me in places all over the world - Korea, now Indonesia, maybe Canada next year or China depending on how my business works out. Indeed, my desire to protect copyright is self serving: at the moment I'm working with an illustrator to illustrate a book I wrote a few years ago. I have had to rent an office, buy furniture, pay a salary, pay for computer equipment, and employ an office assistant. It costs money to do this, and to have a service that rips potential profits off of this venture would certainly be a rip to me and everyone else who does this sort of thing.

The yahoo who thinks it's just 'knowledge' and shouldn't be protected is completely ignorant as to the cost, time, and effort that goes behind even a relatively simple project like mine. I don't even know my chances of getting it ultimately published, and if it does, I have no idea when I'll recover the expenses. Other books, in particular the academic books, take years of study and great expense to put together - certainly more than my comparatively paltry investment of 5k or so.

That being said, I would be happy with having my work available on an Internet library, but not for free. Certainly, putting it together isn't free.




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