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Sony's Phil Harrison delivers the news that the backwards compatibility situation of the Euro PS3 isn't as bleak as most believe

After last week’s surprising news that Sony is removing the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer chip from the European PS3, thus affecting its backwards compatibility with PS2 games, the gaming community had less than positive things to say about the move.

Phil Harrison today speaks out to fans to help clarify what last week’s announcement was all about. Semi-official Sony blog Three Speech questioned Harrison on the logic behind the downgrade, to which he says, “Our thinking involves being able to bring the latest hardware specification of the PS3 to Europe, although that does mean an initial slight reduction in the number of PS2 components. But it’s important to put that into context: there will still be thousands of PlayStation and PlayStation 2 titles playable on the PS3 at launch. It’s very easy to over-react. We’re working to introduce a resource on the Web to detail which titles will have backwards compatibility. And as we make firmware upgrades, we will be able to add to that list.”

The mention of “thousands” of titles piqued our interest, as the thousands could come from PSone titles alone. For a ballpark figure for PS2 games, Harrison says, “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles,” adding that it’s Sony “policy” to be concentrating compatibility on the biggest PS2 blockbusters.

Had Sony released plans to support over 1,000 PS2 games on the March 23 launch, perhaps it would have prevented much of the uproar. Future owners of the European PS3 may not enjoy the same level of backwards compatibility as a North America or Japan console, but Harrison believes that most gamers will care only about new generation games.

“I think the reasons why people buy PS3s are the new games that it offers, and the HD content experiences provided by games and movies, the opportunity to access the PlayStation Network, and titles like MotorStorm and Resistance: Fall of Man – leading-edge examples of what next-generation games are all about,” says Harrison.

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Whatever
By medavid16 on 3/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Whatever
By exdeath on 3/1/2007 3:48:00 PM , Rating: 1
"You're still giving extra load to a chip that wasn't designed to originally run that specific software, thus heating/decreasing service-life, etc."

W...TF?

And running PS3 games doesn't use that same chip and make it run just as hot, if not hotter, since it will leverage more functionality of the CPU in ways that an emulator might not?

An emulator is stil a program made in the native code of the host CPU and is simply running like any other program would on that CPU...


RE: Whatever
By peerless on 3/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Whatever
By exdeath on 3/1/2007 3:53:24 PM , Rating: 3
I play PS1 games in my PS2 all the time. I find old classics like Parasite Eve and Xenogears far more entertaining than the any more recent titles.

Even with hardware, PS2 emulation wasn't perfect. Xenogears just idling will inject random reverb and game sound effects into the background music. And even with texture filtering off in the PS2 BIOS, there are seams in the sprites which are made up of tiled quads.


RE: Whatever
By kelmon on 3/2/2007 3:03:30 AM , Rating: 2
Damned straight! Personally, I'm an R-Type Delta man. There aren't many PS1 games that I still play but that's one of them (and still yet to be surpassed as a 2D shooter, IMHO) and I'd be gutted if I couldn't continue to play it.

Maybe Sony does have their bases covered on this one but I guess we'll have to wait and see the list before passing judgement. The suggestion of increasing the number of supported games is nice through firmware upgrades but since no timescale will be applied to that I certainly wouldn't take it as a guarantee that it'll either happen or at a rate that is acceptable. It's always easiest to say that you'll do something tomorrow rather than doing it today...


RE: Whatever
By scrapsma54 on 3/2/2007 5:04:18 PM , Rating: 2
If we all look at the 360, however more powerful it was compared to reg xbox, games like farcry and Half-life 2 were diminished in performance significantly. As much as the cost is concerned, I see many people are just using the cost as a scapegoat to hate the ps3. I think sony is making a bad move in removing the full backwards compatibility, however, I am sure many people would like to see their games in high definition as much as any console owner, yet experience little or no lag.


RE: Whatever
By Funksultan on 3/1/2007 4:16:15 PM , Rating: 3
lolercakes!

I can't believe they are actually releasing Vista. I mean, it's just gonna put more load on my computer's chips, and that's gonna cause more failures, generate heat, erode the ozone layer, and make my parents beat me more often.

Oh, wait. No it won't.

Software emulation >> hardware if at all possible. Updates will allow for increased capabilities, and allow it to handle situations that are currently unforseen. Once you put in a chip, that's what you've got, period.

PS3 is just gonna start looking better and better. Once they have an open, fully-functional multi-media player for it, the 360 will be scrambling.


RE: Whatever
By ViperROhb34 on 3/1/2007 6:52:58 PM , Rating: 1
At this point there's nothing PS3 can or could to make the 360 scramble as you say.

Before it can even be equal it has to have a network as dependable as Xbox Live which has millions of users.. versus Sony's free system ( which thousands play on not millions ).. the lack of Online games hurts the growth as well since Sony's system doesnt charge home users, but game developer/publishers for the 'right' to have the game online. Maybe this is a reason why a game I recently read about has the 360 version with online option, but the PS3 version with no online and instead a tacky option to use motion sensing if you want. Big DEAL !

The 360 already interfaces with the PC..it finds it.. You can stream High def movies right from your pc.. play most from medica player.. and there's also a program out that will Stream DivX movies from the PC to the Xbox 360 now ( has been out for about 5 months now )

Most people already own a computer.. One thing SOny could do after it catches up in the networking area is to make a program that will inteface with the pc as easily as 360's to use pictures and play your own music from a pc or disc while gaming..

I've heard that you can't play music while gaming d/t cell.. but im not sure if thats true..


RE: Whatever
By afkrotch on 3/1/2007 8:27:52 PM , Rating: 1
Are you serious? Ever read about any Sony MMORPGs? That's one thing that Sony can do, is make an online network for millions of users.

Why interface with your PC, when you can simply load an OS onto the PS3. It can do a hell of a lot more as a PC, than an Xbox360 can do by simply streaming crap from another box, but wait there's more. You can stream crap from your PC to the PS3. It's called Orb.

http://poohole.com/

Don't tell me something like "now I have to download something to stream", cause you have to do the exact same thing with the 360.


RE: Whatever
By ViperROhb34 on 3/1/2007 9:58:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
TextEver read about any Sony MMORPGs? That's one thing that Sony can do, is make an online network for millions of users.


Ok I want you to show me a link where just ONE SONY MMORPG has millions of registered users. You're comparing a few game servers to a more complex network designed for downloading movies, downloading game demos, handling voice on multiple online game platforms. Tell me ONE game that has heavy load on PS3's Network that is anywhere close to Halo 2, Ghost Recon..pick a title. THERE ARE NONE YET !

Furthermore on MMORPG's the server load is usually never over 50-100k at one time because people dont all log in at once. I used to play Star Wars Galaxies which Sony put out and was on Sony servers.. It was down often for maintenance often.. It was buggy and Sony never listened to what people wanted.

Until it exist and until there's anywhere near even half the daily user load of Xbox Live you can't compare it. Say what you want and I dont care about ratings.. people still read down rated things.. I dont care if Im -1 or +5


RE: Whatever
By mars777 on 3/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: Whatever
By mars777 on 3/2/2007 5:06:19 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/sort/rating/gam...

Sorted by rating...
Guess what?... on top together with Guild wars! :)


RE: Whatever
By Funksultan on 3/2/2007 3:51:41 PM , Rating: 1
Yer way off base here viper. Compare the travesty of setting up a media center / Vista media PC, connecting your 360 to it, AND using transcode360 (which is what you're referring to, right?) to an integrated media machine. It's no contest.

If you think that media center is really taking off, it's not. The number of new releases of media streamers is growing daily. Apple, linksys, netgear... everyone is throwing their chips into the middle in an attempt to drag the pot on a living room machine that will search your network / download and display media.

"Most people already own a computer" doesn't hold a lot of ground. Lots of people own cars, but not that many are actually Nascar drivers. We need a worry-free, polished front end. That's why TIVO is popular, and computers with MPEG2 encoder cards AREN'T. :)

Don't get me wrong, I like media center, and I like the 360, but it's not going to become a premier media player for the living room in it's current incarnation. Not saying the PS3 is there either, but MS had it's shot, and it's still pretty far off base. All we can do is wait to see what Sony does, and how they both survive the push for that marker that Apple will make.


RE: Whatever
By Funksultan on 3/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Whatever
By somegeek on 3/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Whatever
By porkpie on 3/5/2007 12:23:47 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. The ps3 has plenty of power to do this in software.


RE: Whatever
By ViperROhb34 on 3/1/2007 7:01:15 PM , Rating: 2
The Big thing is alot of Europeans already own the PS2..

So '1200 old games' to play on a $840 Dollar European PS3 is not an incentive to buy a PS3 in Europe.

They can play all those exact games on their PS2 - With Rumble mind you ! .. And with no software problems !!


RE: Whatever
By StevoLincolnite on 3/1/2007 9:16:46 PM , Rating: 3
"alot" not everyone, Besides If I -was- going to get a PS3 I would be selling my PS2 in order to try and get enough money for a PS3, Comon $999 bucks!? Thats bs! I might be lucky enough to get 100 bucks for my PS2, My greatest worry when I sold my PS1 to get the PS2 was weather Final Fantasy 8 would run on the machine, It did, Rather well actually besides a graphical glitch here and there, Now I have about 60 PS2 games that I WANT to run on a PS3 But until the PS3 Drops in Price, The Wii looks better and better, Was thinking of getting the Xbox 1 and modding it for a HTPC though... But I can do that with my dreamcast and over clock it a little.


RE: Whatever
By ttnuagadam on 3/1/2007 7:06:04 PM , Rating: 1
worst post ever.


RE: Whatever
By otispunkmeyer on 3/2/2007 3:53:41 AM , Rating: 2
while emulation isnt quite the same as having the native hardware, its not going to wear the chip out :S

the EE+GS chip costs them only a few bucks ($27 was it?) so its not a massive reduction, but they gotta start somewhere.

why not use cell to emulate? at the moment cell actually needs things to do becuase i think most are gonna struggle to really use it properly.

i honestly think they are scraping the barrel...looking for things for the cell processor to do


Latest Specification
By supaflydaddyc on 3/1/2007 3:36:16 PM , Rating: 2
As the saying goes, just because you have the newest version of something doesn't necessarily mean you have the best version of that thing.

Take, for example, what Phil Harrison was quoted as saying that Sony is bringing Europe the "...latest hardware specification of the PS3..."

This could also mean that Sony is planning on possibly using the European market (as it will be smaller due to the outrageous cost of the PS3 at launch) as a test platform for their new PS3 hardware specification. This will allow them to already have updated firmware that enables the PS3 to emulate enough PS2 games that when they finally do switch-over Japan's and North America's PS3's, there will be little to no uproar about it.

My guess is that they will get rid of the EE+GS combo in the PS3 hardware for Japan/NA after they begin incorporating the .65nm CELL chip into the system.




RE: Latest Specification
By michal1980 on 3/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Latest Specification
By encryptkeeper on 3/2/2007 12:34:11 PM , Rating: 2
Here's something interesting I found today...
Ahead of the PS3 launch, Sony said that a vibration feature would interfere with the motion sensing capability of the new controller.

Funny, Nintendo was able to make it happen just fine.


RE: Latest Specification
By TheDoc9 on 3/1/2007 4:11:46 PM , Rating: 2
I agree completly, the EU market is a look at things to come.

I will say however that the emulator has the potential to actually be better than the original, allowing higher quality playback of games. However this isn't a PC and these aren't free lance coders, these are paid employees creating the emulator, If you asked me whether or not I believe sony would allow their new system to make old games look better, my answer is NO.


RE: Latest Specification
By supaflydaddyc on 3/1/2007 4:22:37 PM , Rating: 3
All of this talk about emulation software on CELL making PS2 games look better reminds me a bit of the option on the PS2 to make PS1 games look a little less jaggy and smoother.

My question is why wouldn't Sony want to let the PS3 enhance PS2 games in any way possible? There are still PS2 games in development, and a current library of thousands.

Sony needs as many selling points as they can get (especially with the high price tag), so if they can emphasize the fact that the consumer can, "Make their PS2 games look more next-gen and load faster to boot," I think they would do it in a heartbeat, especially when they can save however much it costs for them to have the EE+GS hardware in each system (I have read that this is somewhere along the lines of $25, but I have not done research to confirm this).


RE: Latest Specification
By animedude on 3/2/2007 4:33:17 AM , Rating: 2
Sony profits from software, not hardware. So it doesn't make any difference on which platform the player buys it. (Not to mention, PS2 can be modded)


Why.......
By ViperROhb34 on 3/1/2007 6:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
Why play the "old" titles on PS3 that I play on my PS2 with rumble when I can play Unreal Tournament 2007 and Assasins Creed with 'Rumble' on the 360 and other great games coming on both consoles.. My cousin has a 360 and PS3 and he hates the flashing red screen when you're hit..He barely has touched the PS3




RE: Why.......
By mars777 on 3/2/2007 4:57:34 AM , Rating: 2
It's a matter of taste... if you can't taste it then taste the Xbox ...
Sincerely i can't withstand tha monopolistic taste of the Xbox and it's lack of features (802.11g,external OS and exchangeable HDD).

Then again i will never be able to play Everquest on the Xbox...
And BTW old titles are a bonus, not something you MUST but something you CAN or CANNOT.


RE: Why.......
By chrnochime on 3/2/2007 5:06:41 PM , Rating: 2
Wow yet another FPS, UT2k7. We just need more FPS....


Emulation
By Sureshot324 on 3/1/2007 3:46:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm usually the last person to defend the PS3, but I don't think emulation is a bad thing. You have to understand, the Sony developers have a huge advantage over the people who develope freeware console emulators fo the PC. They have inside knowledge of the PS2 hardware and specs. This makes it much easier to develop a good emulator.

Couple that with the fact that Sony has full time paid developers rather than people doing it on their spare time, and I think Sony could be able to emulate pretty much all PS2 games within a year of the euro launch. It may even be able to play them better than the PS2 could (higher res, AA/AF, better frame rates, lower load times).




RE: Emulation
By exdeath on 3/1/2007 3:50:25 PM , Rating: 2
More importantly, they also have access to source code and the original developers of those games so they can trace and resolve specific issues with certain titles that are dependant on precise hardware elements (timing, etc)


RE: Emulation
By dubldwn on 3/1/2007 4:12:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It may even be able to play them better than the PS2 could (higher res, AA/AF, better frame rates, lower load times).

I know, but why don't they say that? Maybe they did, but this announcement left a bad impression with me, and, it seems, most others. Why don't they say, "wait'llyasee how San Andreas looks now!", or, "wait'llyasee how fast guitar hero loads!" - make it seem like this is an improvement for their finicky euro audience. What the hell is wrong with their PR?


RE: Emulation
By xeus on 3/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Emulation
By michal1980 on 3/1/07, Rating: -1
How is this bad?
By miekedmr on 3/1/2007 4:25:39 PM , Rating: 1
Of course they wont be able to match compatibility with the hardware solution, BUT:

- The console will cost less this way

- Using the more advanced PS3 hardware and emulating the older games could actually mean an IMPROVEMENT in quality. I can run playstation games on my PC at MUCH higher quality than the playstation can. 1080p PS2 games anyone?




RE: How is this bad?
By probedb on 3/2/2007 5:20:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The console will cost less this way

Have you seen the price of a PS3 over here?!?!?! It's more than in the US or Japan and we're the ones getting the cheaper hardware!

How is this good for us? Yet again we get ripped off.


Hmmm.
By Mitch101 on 3/1/2007 4:38:05 PM , Rating: 2
I often wonder how fast computers and gaming machines would be if they didnt have to design around maintaining backwards compatibility?

XEON did this and it made a difference in heat and performance.




doesnt change
By whalenapp81 on 3/1/2007 5:29:43 PM , Rating: 2
doesnt change the fact that euro-people r getting shafted by paying more for less functionality, thats why people r mad




By Pabby on 3/1/2007 6:15:55 PM , Rating: 2
The annoying thing isn't the fact that they are downgrading the console, its that sony believe they can tell users what they want and all for an outrageous price.

According to Sony European users don't mind:

1)Waiting far longer for the actual release
2)A lower spec console
3)Less backward compatibility
4)Paying more than NA and JPN for the privelage to play this lower spec and less compatiable machine.

Well the easiest way to show disapproval is to just not buy the PS3, which is exactly what I'll be doing along with many others I'm sure.




Compatibility
By SmokeRngs on 3/2/2007 11:05:20 AM , Rating: 2
Most people probably don't care that there will be less hardware in the PS3 for Europe. It's the fact that the software emulation will not work on as many games as the actual hardware does. The US and Japanese units set a standard for backwards compatibility and the European version does not meet that standard.

There is also the issue of the quality of the emulation. What standard is Sony using to come up with over 1000 games that work. Does this mean the games work with no glitches or maybe just a few or does it mean they were able to pop a disc in and get a loading screen but not actually able to play through the game? I haven't seen what this is and I don't know how many others have either.

At this time, I don't see any advantages to the software emulation over using the actual hardware. Sony has not announced any video quality enhancements to any games due to the software emulation. They may actually have this but one would think that if this was planned and working they would be making a big deal of it. At this time I would go with the assumption that there will be no improvements to older games.

From what I remember, the PS3 was supposed to have software emulation to begin with and it was scrapped in favor of the hardware because they could not get it working or at least working in time for production and initial launch. (If I'm wrong about this, please correct me.) That would tell me that the software emulation is probably not up to snuff even yet. I'm sure improvements will be made, but how soon and for how long?

I just wonder if the current US and Japanese consoles will be able to do the software emulation. I would assume there would have to be a setting in the main menu to enable/disable hardware emulation. If there did end up being visual improvements to games from the software emulation, I would think that the owners of PS2 hardware equipped PS3s would also want the chance for the visual improvements.

Sony could have itself in a nasty bind here. The results of how it plays out could be interesting. Microsoft and Nintendo better be watching closely as Sony seems to be showing everyone how not to do a console launch. Hopefully Sony learns from this also.




A 1,000 is a small percentage of games
By BladeVenom on 3/1/2007 6:37:36 PM , Rating: 2
They are trying to make that sound good, but it's really a pathetic percentage of the titles available. One website I read said that was only 10% of the PS2 titles. Wikipedia states that as of August 2006 there were 8,181 titles. There are at least 2,308 European titles.




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