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  (Source: Ria Novosti)
Large passenger jet was reportedly shot down, no one is believed to have survived

In a tragedy that could ignite the smoldering powderkeg of U.S.-Russian relations, a large passenger plane crashed in Ukraine this morning, reportedly shot down by a truck-mounted rocket system.  The crew and all 280 passengers and 15 crew members onboard Malaysia Airlines 17 are believed to be dead.
 
The incident is the latest tragedy for Malaysian Airlines (Malaysia Airlines System Bhd (MK:MAS)), which in March lost another passenger jet due to unexplained circumstances.  Even as the Asian airline continues to search with dimming hope for the wreckage and black box of the that flight, it now has a fresh tragedy on hand.
 
Like MH370, the jet that went missing on March 8, the second crashed plane is a Boeing Comp. (BABoeing 777.  Filled with passengers, the jet was travelling homeward from Amsterdam, Netherlands to the capitol city of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia when it fell from the sky, bursting into a violent explosion that sent smoke into the air that could be seen from miles away.
 
Interfax -- a Russian news agency -- was one of the first sources to report on the fiery crash:

Malaysian Airlines downed

Several YouTube users also posted what they claimed was video of the crashed aircraft.







As the say goes, when it rains, it pours.  That certainly seems to be the case for Malaysian Airlines.  

You can hardly blame the tragedy on Boeing who owns a near perfect track record when it came to safety from mechanical failures.  The Boeing 777 had previously only seen 4 incidents that damaged the hull of a plane -- two of these incidents involved overrunning the runway.  Only the most recent incident -- the July 2013 crash of an Asiana Airlines passenger craft at San Francisco International Airport -- led to any fatalities.
 
The Boeing was so safe that Malaysian Airlines opted to skimp on the optional satellite tracking service from the UK's Inmarsat plc (LON:ISAT), which has caused much grief in the wake of the still-missing MH370 jet.
 
This time around, the satellite tracker is believed to have been active (in the wake of the previous crash, Inmarsat offered up free service to all airlines that install its pricey tracking devices).  But the again there was little doubt where it crashed.  The crash goes to show that even the safest passenger aircraft can easily fall victim to modern weaponry.
 
Ria Novosti, a Russian state news agency, posted dramatic photographs of the wreckage.

MH 17

MH 17

MH 17
[Images Source: Ria Novosti]

Reuters has other pictures of the wreckage:

MH-17 wreckage
[Image Source: Reuters]

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to Ukraine's Interior Minister posted a statement to Facebook commenting [translated]:

Just over Torez terrorists backed by Putin's given "Buk" anti-aircraft missile battery shot down a civilian aircraft flying from Kuala Lumpur to Amsterdam.  This morning local patriots were recorded moving the battery by Tereza in the snow.

The aircraft pilot was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters.  [In total] 280 passengers and 15 crew members have been killed.

The cynicism/savagery of Putin and his terrorists has no limits!  Europe, the United States, Canada, the civilized world -- open your eyes!  Help us all you can!  It is a war of good versus evil!

Here's a video of the crash site! Some scoundrels shouted "Beauty! Beautifully lit!"

Inhuman savages!

Svatoslav Tsegolko, the press secretary for Ukranian President Petro Poroshenko, comments:

Poroshenko thinks this of the plane that was brought down: it is not an incident, not a catastrophe, but a terrorist act.

Ria Novosti (Russian) quotes a source within a Ukrainian militia as denying a role in the attack.  They comment:

We're a militia.  We don't have those kinds of weapons.

It did not directly address the accusation that it was given Buk rocket launchers by Russia.  But Russian news agency Ria Novosti quoted Russian Intelligenc as claiming:

According to reconnaissance data, a Ukrainian army battalion of Buk air defense systems was deployed near Donetsk on Wednesday morning.

Indeed, one thing creating confusion is that both Russia (who backs the Eastern Ukranian separatist militias) and Ukraine both have Buk missile batteries.  The Buk air defense system was developed by the former Soviet Union in 1979.  It has been produced in both tracked and wheeled varieties.  In either form most variants are capable of launching 4 self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missiles.  The missiles can shoot down aircraft at altitudes of 14-25 km, depending on the model.

Buk M1-2
Buk M1-2 batteries (tracked) in 2010 [Image Source: Wikimedia Commons]

During the fall of the Soviet Union Russia retained the largest stock of the Buk batteries, but Ukraine and other separatist Soviet states also retained Buk launchers.

Buk M2
A wheeled Buk M2 [Image Source: Wikimedia Commons]

The Prime Minister of the Netherlands, Mark Rutte, took a more cautious position, declining to cast blame on either side.  He remarks:

I’m deeply shocked by the dramatic reports about the crash of flight MH17 of Malaysia Airlines from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur above Ukrainian territory.

Many things are still unclear about the cause, the circumstances and the passengers. I just spoke with the Ukrainian President.

I’m now on my way to The Netherlands to further follow the situation from The Hague. Our thoughts go out to the people on board and their families and friends.

It is unclear if any Americans were onboard the doomed flight.

Reuters has posted dramatic photos of local firemen attempting to use water to cool the smolder wreckage.  Responders reportedly found burned bodies of passengers or crew on the site:

wreckage site

MH-17 wreckage (2 of 7)

MH-17 wreckage (3 of  7)

MH-17 wreckage (4 of 7)

MH-17 wreckage (5 of 7)

MH-17 wreckage (6 of 7)

MH-17 smoking wreckage
[Image Source: Reuters]

Reuters reporter Cassandra Garrison describes:

Dozens of bodies were scattered around the smoldering wreckage of a passenger jet that crashed in a field in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, a Reuters reporter said.

An emergency services rescue worker said at least 100 bodies had so far been found at the scene, near the village of Grabovo, and that debris from the wreckage was spread across an area up to about 15 km (nine miles) in diameter.

One mystery is how the aircraft end up by Donetsk.  No distress signals were reported, but it appears to have been well off its flight path, posted by Reuters.  The plane appears to have diverted 50-100 km off its original flight path, according to data from Flight Aware.  The diversion happened over central Poland.  The original path would have put it likely out of harm's way, flying over the Sea of Azov.  The new path put it tragically over the eastern Ukranian battlezone.

MH 17 crash

MH-17 intended route
USA Today shows that after the flight diverted slightly off the typical flight path (while headed over Poland), it's trajectory took it over Donetsk. [Image Source: USA Today]


According to the Twitter account FlightCrisis, maps of airplane traffic show other flights trying to make emergency diversions away from Eastern Ukraine. Subsequent posts show traffic successfully routed away from the dangerous region: The diversions are unlikely to affect U.S. flights.  American flights were ordered by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration in March not to fly over Crimea, just south of the crash site.  The reason for this order was reportedly concerns over air traffic control.

However, security concerns may well have been present, as well.  USA Today claims that the government of Ukraine on Mar. 28 covered the Crimea area, the Sea of Asov, and the Black Sea with a no-fly zone extending to 29,000 feet (8.8 km).  MH-17 is believed to have been travelling just above this restricted zone.

(Further developments will be placed in other pieces.)

Sources: Interfax on Twitter [Translated], Ria Novosti, YouTube [1], [2]



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This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

I'm sure Russia will deny it
By Milliamp on 7/17/2014 4:08:13 PM , Rating: 5
Just like they denied for a long time that the soldiers standing in Crimea were actually Russian despite them being in Russian uniform with Russian military equipment.

Now a missile fired from an extremely expensive Buk platform is somehow just some rogue rebels not associated with the Russian military. I call BS.




RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By nikon133 on 7/17/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By ritualm on 7/18/2014 2:44:55 PM , Rating: 2
First off...
quote:
I think - at this stage - that Ukraine would benefit more from any kind of international response, especially if the manage to blame Russian side. I cannot see Russian gain here.

That is all sorts of wrong. Downing a military cargo plane that trepassed someone else's territory is one thing. This is a plane filled with non-combatants. Ukraine can't use this tragedy as a pretext to an unrestricted war against the rebels/Russia. The only folks who see this as a "gain" are anyone who wants their 15 seconds of infamy.
quote:
Who had weapon within 20km range?

Buk surface-to-air missiles are effective up to 25km and can hit targets as far as 60km away. Learn to read.
quote:
Who is holding that territory at present?

Parts of eastern Ukraine are held by the rebel insurgency. They unilaterally declared it "independent" from the rest of the country, but nobody formally recognizes their claims.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By M'n'M on 7/17/2014 7:56:28 PM , Rating: 3
Another question is who has the training needed to run the SA-11 system ? Kiev does but I can't see them willing to down even a Russian AC (and getting MH11 by mistake). That leaves Russia or separatists, who would likely need help from Mosow to operate the system. Perhaps an "adviser" had too much vodka that day and lost control of his charges ?

I'm sure we had the area under observation. Will "Obama" pull out some NRO photos and NSA intercepts at the UN, ala Adlai Stevenson back in '62 ?


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By Jeffk464 on 7/17/2014 8:33:01 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
call BS


But what does Putin have to gain from shooting down an airliner?


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By M'n'M on 7/17/2014 8:46:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
But what does Putin have to gain from shooting down an airliner?

Nothing, no one does. It was a FU. I'm sure that the person pushing the button thought it was another Ukrainian military AC. Putin gets his share of the blame because it was either a Russian system or had Russian "advisers" training the separatists or perhaps even on-site.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By Amiga500 on 7/18/2014 5:54:54 AM , Rating: 2
So certain are you... that it was a Russian system.

https://twitter.com/ystriya/status/489828147836502...

It would appear the separatists stole (at least) one Buk from the Ukrainians.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By arrandale on 7/18/2014 7:34:57 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but it's not like they learned to fire it at their local community college. Even if they did use the stolen BUK, it's a complicated system that requires experienced operators to use. It doesn't just have a big red button that says, "Press here to explode something."


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By Amiga500 on 7/18/2014 7:48:51 AM , Rating: 3
Where do you actually think the rebels were trained?

They are mostly ex-Ukrainian armed forces!! Which in turn, were derived from ex-Soviet forces.

[And actually, it is common knowledge that the Soviet systems were by-and-by large built for use by largely conscript troops. Simple and rugged. There are exceptions of course.]


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By M'n'M on 7/18/2014 12:55:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Putin gets his share of the blame because it was either a Russian system or had Russian "advisers" training the separatists or perhaps even on-site.


quote:
Where do you actually think the rebels were trained? They are mostly ex-Ukrainian armed forces!! Which in turn, were derived from ex-Soviet forces.

Unless they were part of the ADS squadron, they'll need training on that system just to able to boot it up. Just being in the army isn't going to cut it. Could it have been totally native personnel ? Yup, it's just not as likely, given all the other help Russia is giving the separatists (T62's, GRAD's). Consider that the system mentioned was captured in late June, not handed over (by natives) early in the conflict. And nobody knows just what hardware was used. So yes it's speculation, but informed.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By slunkius on 7/21/2014 2:10:48 AM , Rating: 2
it is a well known fact that Russia recruits and trains fighters in russian territory, which later are transferred to Ukraine to fight as "separatists". Of course Russia denies it, just as they denied there were russian soldiers in Crimea, they were presented as "local militia".


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By kattanna on 7/18/2014 10:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nothing, no one does.


http://www.newsdaily.com/europe/f3addfe60f53ef97be...

quote:
The world of AIDS research was in shock on Friday after dozens of leading HIV experts were feared killed when a Malaysian plane was shot down over Ukraine, fuelling concerns that research on curing the disease could suffer.


quote:
As many as 100 people heading to the AIDS 2014 conference in Melbourne were on the doomed flight


maybe they had something against AIDS researchers

anyways.. this adds another very sad chapter to this tragedy


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By MrBlastman on 7/18/2014 11:39:47 AM , Rating: 2
You can't put a price on any life. Any loss is tragic considering the circumstances. This should not have happened. Who knows what caused it--too little details, too soon to tell. But scientists can't simply be replaced--not to say that they are any more important than anyone else. But their selfless dedication to study to further mankind sets them in a league of their own for what they do. My heart aches when I see the pictures.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By JDHammer on 7/18/2014 1:05:56 PM , Rating: 2
+1


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By imaheadcase on 7/18/2014 9:09:02 AM , Rating: 5
So what if they deny it, i'm sure the US is not going to say "Hey we gave the Taliban all those weapons to kill the US troops" even though they did.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By superflex on 7/18/2014 3:17:30 PM , Rating: 1
Ukraine has blood on their hands.
They diverted the flight and now are refusing to release the ATC recordings.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-...


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By ritualm on 7/18/2014 4:10:09 PM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile, I'm taking everything ZeroHedge says with a heaping spoonful of salt.

At this point it's way too early to draw conclusions. So many of these "findings" are unsubstantiated rumors and should be treated as such.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By Motoman on 7/18/2014 9:50:52 AM , Rating: 2
While this is a tragedy, I have one question...

Why is this being posted on DailyTech? Is this supposed to be a global general interest news site now?

It's like they just wanted some more clicks so they are capitalizing on a hot and tragic story. Which really has nothing to do with the purpose of this website.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By superflex on 7/18/2014 3:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
To your question as to why this story is being posted here you have to ask the same question as to why Russia would down a civilian airliner.
Cui bono?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-fl...

The sheeple of this country have been programmed to believe the BS spoon fed to them by the media, talking heads and "elected" leaders.
Russia = Evil
USA = Good
Wake the F up.
You all fell for the fake Sochi toilet photos too, didnt you?


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By slunkius on 7/21/2014 2:15:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Russia = Evil USA = Good

ignoring some grey shades, this is very much true. i'll pick US over Rusia any day. And i am not from US.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By CyberHawk on 7/18/2014 11:22:38 AM , Rating: 3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

I am really sorry for the people, who were innocent.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By tokima on 7/19/2014 3:02:29 PM , Rating: 2

I would agree that were the rebels but the fact is Buk is a very complicated system and it needs special radar and a key and a trained person to lunch a missle. But trained person would EASILY distinguish a military AC from boeing!! The boeing had all the signals for identification. The truth is the fireing COULD NOT BE ACCIDENTAL.
And the only one who gains is Ukraine if everyone believes that the rebels are responsible. And if you look to what US politicians say Ukraine will not even loose much if there fault is prooved. If you ask "who gains?" you realize this should be a flag operation.
The worst thing is the US can always say "our satellites prove that were the rebels" no matter what the truth is people will believe.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By M'n'M on 7/20/2014 11:26:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The truth is the fireing COULD NOT BE ACCIDENTAL.

You're assuming that the tracking radar's IFF can receive and decode civilian transponders. Or that it was turned in. Or that anyone bothered to check it. Any time humans are in charge, accidents can't be ruled out.

But don't let commonsense get in the way of your conspiracy theory. Continue on, I'll get some popcorn.


RE: I'm sure Russia will deny it
By slunkius on 7/21/2014 2:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
Ukraine did not shoot any aircraft, not even Russian military, to avoid giving pretext to Putin for invasion. But "rebels" (read russian trained fighters) were boasting left and right about downed airplanes and air control over their territory. and that suddenly got turned off once they realized they got civilian aircraft. now russia is spamming theories how they have no connection with this accident": it was Ukraine shooting Putins plane, it was Ukraine fighter planes attack, etc. all while giving no access for investigators to check the place.


By inperfectdarkness on 7/22/2014 9:59:33 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just sorry it wasn't an Iranian airliner. They might actually retaliate against Russia ala Lockerbie.

...or is that just my Schadenfreude talking?


This is not good
By rocketbuddha on 7/17/2014 2:48:40 PM , Rating: 2
The below is from RT. So take it as you want

http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-crash-ukraine-...
quote:
“Self-defense forces have no air-defense, which could target transport aircraft at that height,” he told Interfax. “We have only MANPADs (portable anti-aircraft missile complex) which hit targets at 3-4 kilometers,” Sergey Kavtaradze, representative for Donetsk People’s Republic PM, also told journalists.

Russia’s military also says none of its military planes have been flying close to the Russia-Ukraine border on Thursday, RIA Novosti reported citing a military official.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has not ruled out that a Malaysian plane has been shot down. “ We don’t rule out that this plane was shot down and stress that Ukrainian forces did not fulfill any actions targeting in the air, ” Poroshenko said. He added that an investigation commission will be launched.


Damn it! Porenshenko's comment seems the least definitive of the three. It would have been really unfortunate if this was a mistake during the fog of war...

Prayers with the victims' families...




RE: This is not good
By Any14Tee on 7/17/2014 4:42:36 PM , Rating: 2
Also on RT and take it as you want, they mentioned, not quoting the exact words, the similarity between Russian Aeroflot and Malaysian commercial airlines in terms of the red, blue and white livery and it was suggested the Kiev regime might have been responsible for firing the missile at it thinking it to be a Russian plane. I'm not sure the truth will ever come out.

I was on the Malaysian Airbus 830 Jumbo few months ago, also passing through the same route from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpur, destination Langkawi and remember sharing a silly joke with my missus, as we passed over Ukraine airspace,'what if we get hit by a missile',she gave me the cold stare. Not in my wildest dream did I imagine, something like this would ever happen.

My God, it's so tragic - all those innocent lives lost. May they all rest in peace.


RE: This is not good
By Nexos on 7/18/2014 10:55:09 AM , Rating: 1
The whole similar planes story smells like complete bullshit. Not only are aircraft not identified by their markings (any more, not since radars, transponders and freaking flightradar24), its also practically impossible to do so when the aircraft is flying at cruising altitude.


RE: This is not good
By Any14Tee on 7/18/2014 7:23:31 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you, there's a whole lot of stories, denials counter-denials being bounced about and when you think it through logically most of what you hear doesn't hold water.

It's almost impossible to know where the truth lies, it seems both sides are doing everything they can to propagate their cause but I did hear on the news today, Ukrainian Air traffic controller allegedly told the Malaysian pilot to divert its path to conflict zone and reduce it altitude. If there is evidence to support this claim then a lot of questions will be asked of the Ukrainian authorities.

I do think who ever fired the missiles whether it came from a BUK launcher or a jet fighter, the instructions came from a higher chain of command. If the separatist had the BUK in their artillery, it very possible with proper training for them to bring down the passenger airline but why? A plane flying at 30,000 plus altitude cannot be mistaken for a Ukrainian supply plane.
I don't want to get into conspiracy theories but this whole thing stinks.


RE: This is not good
By Dorkyman on 7/20/2014 6:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
I can easily see how this could have happened. The rebels are drunk and full of $hit, the Russian launcher assistants are proud for having shot down a Ukranian aircraft a few days earlier, look, here's how we boot up and lock on, here's how the system powers up,--crap. I can't believe we just did a launch. Hope it's another Ukranian freighter.


RE: This is not good
By Any14Tee on 7/20/2014 7:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, can't rule that out, it is a warzone and the separatist were having some success bringing down Ukrainian jet fighters from altitudes 10,000-15,000.
Who's to say that it was not already in the capability of the separatist to knock the passenger plane out of the sky.

Don't you find it strange, immediately after the crash without having the full facts, the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko immediately labeled the tragedy “a terrorist act". Most Nations view this as a Great Tragedy a loss of innocent lives but the Kiev regime sees this as a Game Changer.

Maybe the flight recordings from the black box will say otherwise (if it hasn't already been tampered with).

All governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes.


RE: This is not good
By Strunf on 7/21/2014 7:57:40 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone thought the plane had been shot down long before having full facts... chances that there is a mechanical or other malfunction on a plane that travels to the EU is quite low, that it just happens over the Ukraine is almost like non existent. To me he just said loud and clear what everyone was thinking.


RE: This is not good
By slunkius on 7/21/2014 2:33:55 AM , Rating: 2
you must be joking right? info from russian source shifting blame from Moscow and "rebels" and onto Ukraine? now that must be some unbiased source.


RE: This is not good
By Any14Tee on 7/22/2014 7:55:34 PM , Rating: 2
Ok I took the bait!

"info from russian source shifting blame from Moscow and "rebels" and onto Ukraine? now that must be some unbiased source."

You're telling me Western sourced news isn't biased? There's been a lot of hysterics and Russophobia since this news first broke. I listened to Sky News this morning and the usual rhetoric was toned down, ..."American intelligence had admitted there was no evidence to implicate Putin". If I accept Sky News like its sister brethren Fox News as De facto of honest journalism, where integrity and freedom of press is paramount to our Western values, I'll say cheers and sip my beer but a little voice keeps telling me they got it right on the Weapons of Mass Destruction, wasn't lies at all, innocents soldiers going to Iraq didn't die for nothing - it was all for the greater good - Bush Junior wasn't finishing of his daddy's business and Blair was a solid politician.

If Putin was a private citizen he would be raking in a lot of money from the lawyers. We're quick to judge that's all I'm saying, wait till the dusk settles and all the evidence is collated and put before an independent panel.

Putin and Obama are poles in a collision and I'm feeling genuinely nervous about the world,what is frightening neither respects or know their boundaries. We had a lot of swagger from Reagan in the 80's, "lot of aaaarg, I'm gonna kick your Soviet backside" but everything went in complete opposite both Mikhail Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan were able to see through the folly, and open up a beautiful dialogue, which lead to the demise of the Soviet Union. We expect more from our leaders, it's time we had peace in this world, lot of killing happening in Gaza, the Jews killing the Palestinians with impunity as if it's their God given right to do so...double standards.
Sh*t I'm going to get tagged by NSA operatives in Wisconsin again!


Boeings record
By tdktank59 on 7/17/2014 3:39:12 PM , Rating: 5
While this is a shitty story it pisses me off you even gotta bring this sort of sxxt into the article...

"Boeing had previously owned a near perfect track record when it came to safety. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=36235..."

Um... this is not boeings fault (if anything its Malaysian airlines fault for not flying around a "hot zone") These missiles can take down armored aircraft it has nothing to do with boeing having mechanical failure on one of their airplanes.

This is one of the many reasons I hate the media... Trying to blame things/people/corporations or what ever the fxxxxng want to and then the idiot sheeple into belive its boeings fault that the airline got shot down.

Or the fact that the Malaysian airline company opted not to have the GPS trackers installed has nothing to do with a airplane getting shot down.

IMO no need to recap articles that have NOTHING to do with a airplane being SHOT DOWN...




RE: Boeings record
By NellyFromMA on 7/17/2014 4:07:48 PM , Rating: 3
Frankly, I've read a ton of articles about this so far and only DT segways into Boeings safety record.

Probably just to fill space.

It would have likely been a better use of time to review the photos used in the article as the airliner pictured is a 747, not a 777.

I care more about those affected than that, though.


RE: Boeings record
By hughlle on 7/17/2014 4:31:57 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree, if you read all of the article you'd also know that it was supposed to fly around the hot zone, for some reason it took a pretty significant deviation from its set course.


RE: Boeings record
By Jedi2155 on 7/17/2014 11:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
According to what I've heard so far, it was decided by the Airline (and they weren't the only airline making that decision) that its cheaper to fly through it to save fuel.

Some airlines chose not to, such as Malaysian Air. Additionally, if we were not allowed to fly through all war zones, most of Africa would be off limits...


RE: Boeings record
By tokima on 7/19/2014 3:27:25 PM , Rating: 2
The new route was longer and could not save the fuel.


RE: Boeings record
By leexgx on 7/19/2014 10:30:09 PM , Rating: 2
still not a no fly zone, its there option to not fly over there

still any one with half a bran should check the target before blowing it out of the sky, commercial jets are very obvious just a scope you be able to do a visual check (its not like it was a night shot)


sad to be sure
By darkos on 7/17/2014 1:50:36 PM , Rating: 2
and it seems to be a well written article for the most-part, but, the image shown of a 'similar model' aircraft is of a 747 variant, while the downed aircraft in this case is a 777, having two main engines, and without the 'hump' on the top of the fuselage toward the front of the aircraft.




RE: sad to be sure
By Boushh on 7/17/2014 1:58:37 PM , Rating: 2
I was going to mention the same. A correct picture would be:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/boushh_tfa/127255181...

It also happens to leave Amsterdam Airport earlier this year.

And even if it involves extra costs: why not avoid airspace for commercial travel over conflict areas ? When I travelled from Italy to India weeks before the second Gulf war, our plane was initaly set to fly over Baghdad, but it was redirected to fly over Saudi Arabia.

Several military aircraft have been shot down over this aera, that should have been enough reason to avoid it !!

Me feelings go out to all involved...


RE: sad to be sure
By esteinbr on 7/17/2014 2:33:14 PM , Rating: 3
They seem to be updating the article but it now shows that its planned flight path shouldn't have taken it over the area and that they lost tracking of it before it was shot down.


RE: sad to be sure
By MozeeToby on 7/17/2014 6:07:22 PM , Rating: 5
For crying out loud, planes deviate from their planned flight path all. the. time. Weather, turbulence, etc. It's nothing out of the ordinary. Everyone latches on to this like the pilots or airline is at fault but the fact is they were flying over unrestricted airspace, within their flight corridor (yes, they're still within the corridor even with the deviation), and blasting their transponder. This is like blaming the rape victim for walking through a bad neighborhood.


RE: sad to be sure
By inperfectdarkness on 7/22/2014 10:02:18 AM , Rating: 2
This I completely agree with. I swear, does anyone commenting on here understand the concept of "Class A Airspace"?


It resembles the cause of world war I
By nangryo on 7/17/2014 2:13:54 PM , Rating: 1
Does it ring anyone bells?

The similarity is uncanny.. it actually gives me goosebumps




By jbwhite99 on 7/17/2014 5:26:35 PM , Rating: 4
was Archduke Ferdinand on this plane?


RE: It resembles the cause of world war I
By superflex on 7/18/2014 3:32:01 PM , Rating: 2
False Flags have been the norm since 1913. They are a great way to distract the Sheeple from the real problems at hand.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/07/downing-of-...

Keep up the bleating. Your government is proud of your patriotism.


By ritualm on 7/18/2014 4:13:32 PM , Rating: 2
I get it, you're in effect arguing how a false flag op is worth killing 295 unrelated persons with what they call a misfire...


By KiwiTT on 7/17/2014 4:51:44 PM , Rating: 1
If it was escorted by Ukrainian fighters, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the separatists fired a missile to try to hit them and it went for the larger target.




By KiwiTT on 7/17/2014 5:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
More info - http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatist...

"Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast)."


By Dribble on 7/18/2014 5:23:12 AM , Rating: 3
You can listen to it all on youtube, went up within hours of the crash - it wasn't encoded from the look of it. There are also pictures of them moving the missile launcher into Russia. In addition after the plane was shot down but before they realized it was civilian rebels were claiming they shot down a plane in that area on social media.

There's basically no doubt it was shot down by Ukrainian separatists using a truck based launcher given to them by the Russians. The discussion now is basically how much Russia is to blame.


Really sad...
By aurareturn on 7/17/2014 1:36:11 PM , Rating: 5
I don't really care about the politics or the airline. But it's just really sad that this happened. It's somebody's parents, sister, brother, children in that plane. They all died for no reason.




Safety problem?
By djc208 on 7/17/2014 1:51:07 PM , Rating: 5
If really shot down this is bad for far more than the people who lost their life.

Though, how is potentially being shot down a safety problem with the plane? Last I checked being missle proof was not a design criteria. Even the previous loss has yet to be atributed to any mechanical failure of the plane itself. I'd be more worried about why the world seems to like shooting down the Mylasian flights.




Ukraine fired non-military AC before
By tokima on 7/19/2014 3:04:49 PM , Rating: 2
By M'n'M on 7/20/2014 11:09:31 AM , Rating: 2
You might fix your title to include "accidentally". And to be really clear, neither missile battery shot at the airliner, they shot at a target drone. When 1 missile destroyed that drone the other battery picked up the airliner, tracked it and eventually the 2'nd missile destroyed it. A massive screw-up ... just as this instance will eventually prove to be.

BTW - who was in charge of Kiev then ? And now ?


Strange
By gixser on 7/17/2014 1:42:44 PM , Rating: 3
But this live flight tracker underscores the tragedy for me:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/2...




How does this prove "unsafe"?
By CharonPDX on 7/17/2014 3:53:08 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Boeing had previously owned a near perfect track record when it came to safety.


How does being shot down impact their track record for safety?

That's like saying "Nutcase bike helmets had a great track record for safety until someone shot a cyclist in the head while wearing it."




Tracking
By Shadowmaster625 on 7/17/2014 3:23:30 PM , Rating: 2
I hope somebody tracks that truck back to wherever it goes and documents the whole event.




Awful...
By NellyFromMA on 7/17/2014 4:02:44 PM , Rating: 2
Firstly, I feel so sorry for the victims and their families...

Aside from that, this makes 3 downed aircraft in the past week. it's seemingly known that one of those other downed aircraft was at an altitude above the known limits of shoulder mounted equipment the rebels openly claim to have, and yet they have claimed responsibility for that downing also.

Who knows what happened, but the fact that the rebels immediately surrounded the site and are wildly looking for the black box to hand over to Russia is quite telling to me.

What an awful tragedy.




intrigue
By winterwatchers on 7/18/2014 1:10:27 AM , Rating: 2
If one take a look at past flight data of the Malaysia flight route, none of them crosses the warzone. They all past far west of it. The fact that the flight was diverted off course is very disconcerting.




Sum Ting Wong?
By techxx on 7/17/14, Rating: -1
"Let's face it, we're not changing the world. We're building a product that helps people buy more crap - and watch porn." -- Seagate CEO Bill Watkins














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