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Print 51 comment(s) - last by jtesoro.. on May 29 at 5:58 AM

If anyone is even keeping track of Vista's release anymore, congrats

Recent news has hinted at yet more delays in Microsoft's Vista launch in January of 2007. If anyone actually believed that Vista would be released at that time they obviously did not follow Microsoft's previous delays of the upcoming operating system.

As Ballmer himself states "Certainly, when Windows Vista comes to the market next year, and it will be next year, we will make sure that we make a high quality product, ship a high quality product, when it's ready."

The last few words, "when it's ready" are reminiscent of the old Duke Nukem Forever days but hopefully it won't take Microsoft as long to release the final versions. Ballmer went on to later add
"What we are discussing ... with hardware partners is when they would really like it -- early January, late January, February. We are on track for shipping early in the year."

Last week Microsoft announced official hardware requirements to run Vista which give us something to hold on to and plan with for migrating our environments to Vista...eventually. The requirements seem very high compared to those of our current beloved Microsoft operating systems but at the rate hardware is advancing these base requirements will probably be standard at the time Vista is launched.


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I'm an indie kid
By Mudvillager on 5/24/2006 2:20:07 PM , Rating: 4
My opinion is that Microsoft should take as much (reasonable) time as they can to make Vista as great as possible!




RE: I'm an indie kid
By TomZ on 5/24/2006 2:26:18 PM , Rating: 2
I agree - for now, WinXP is working just fine. MS should make sure that the first release of Vista is a good one.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By das mod on 5/24/2006 2:56:06 PM , Rating: 3
why not focus on finishing once and for all the so long waited for Service Pack 3 .... XP still has potential and a great future..... who cares when vista is released :P


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Griswold on 5/24/2006 2:58:08 PM , Rating: 2
Well I want vista, because it will do many things much, much better than 2k or XP. But I dont want another rush job that forces me to wait for SP1 or SP2 before I can use it.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By akugami on 5/24/2006 3:54:17 PM , Rating: 2
It seems more and more likely there will be a SP3 for Windows XP. One must remember that the majority of users will still be on XP and not Vista well into 2007 even if it was released in Jan'07. Especially with the delays on Vista which sound more and more like it might not hit till the second half of 2007. Even if Vista is released I will wait for SP1 when the bugs are worked out.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By ncage on 5/24/2006 10:34:07 PM , Rating: 3
I'll tell you why it makes no sense. Sure it would be great for XP users but for microsoft to put a lot of resources towards this makes absolutly no buisness sense at all. XP is going out and vista is comming in. It makes no sense to spend all kinds of resources on something that microsoft is going to want to phase out in the near term. Its all about revenue. How much revenue push do you think xp has left? Not much.

On the discussion of moving to vista makes no sense because it really doesn't offer anything of use. I heard the same discussions when xp came out and was replacing win2000. Well how many people run win2000 anymore? Probably not that many.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By segagenesis on 5/24/2006 3:56:57 PM , Rating: 2
Just curious... what would you mean by "many things much, much better"? I seem to do everything I need in XP or 2K. But YMMV.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By OrSin on 5/24/2006 4:05:46 PM , Rating: 2
I was thinking the same thing. I don't see Vista doing much for me at. All I can think of is better 64 Support. The rest is eye candy and junk for the the AOL types.
Really I want my desktop OS to do is to process programs. If I want the other junk I download from a 3rd party or even MS, but I hate OS blot. I think the hardware people want it the most so they can justify 4Ghz for word processing.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By OrSin on 5/24/2006 4:08:19 PM , Rating: 1
Oh yeah I forget we really need a SP3. I reload windows and put on SP2, then I had to Download another 140MB of updates. That crazy. I'm fine becuase I'm on broadband but what about the the dail up people. And thier are still allot of them. That what 3 days just to update?


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Griswold on 5/24/2006 5:23:24 PM , Rating: 2
I said "It" does many things better. UAC (while annoying to some) beats the crap out of the rights management of 2k and XP for example. I mainly mean internal stuff not the GUI.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By hadifa on 5/24/2006 6:58:02 PM , Rating: 3
"Just curious... what would you mean by "many things much, much better"? I seem to do everything I need in XP or 2K. But YMMV."
That's the as I thought when MS introduced win 95. I thought DOS would do everything I need. I seriously thought that. The same as thinking no one can fill a 240MB hard drive ever -I thought the same about 40MB earlier- and so many other genius ideas I had. Hahah.

Nope, XP does not cut it and MS knows it. You think XP is good enough probably because you haven’t seen something better or you got used to the way you are doing things.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By segagenesis on 5/24/2006 8:13:27 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Nope, XP does not cut it and MS knows it. You think XP is good enough probably because you haven’t seen something better or you got used to the way you are doing things.


I agree because I thought the same, but I really have come to prefer the "if it aint broke dont fix it" mentality come of late when it comes to Windows so I'm still somewhat skeptical. I'll likely wait a year first...


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Garreye on 5/24/2006 10:39:13 PM , Rating: 2
For me the sidebar and the virtual folders (or stored searches or whatever you want to call it) is enough incentive to upgrade to vista. I'm really picky when it comes to having my PC organized and these features should be a big plus. I'm also big on mutlitasking so the taskbar previews as well as flip and flip-3d should be really useful for this. The new security features look pretty good too.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pythias on 5/24/2006 6:32:16 PM , Rating: 3
DX10!!!


RE: I'm an indie kid
By anandtechrocks on 5/24/2006 2:47:27 PM , Rating: 3
I think they should make sure to release a high quality product, but I wish there were some competition in the OS market to help make newer, better products...


RE: I'm an indie kid
By michael2k on 5/24/2006 3:35:49 PM , Rating: 1
Competition only exists when there are people buying the competition.

As much as I love my Mac and iPod, the existence of competition has made both much better. It is too bad that the reverse isn't true for Windows; Linux and Mac OS X don't register high enough to be true competitors for Windows (yet). The unveiling of affordable Intel Macs, and hopefully soon CHEAP Intel Macs, may change that yet.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By TheBaker on 5/24/2006 5:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Competition only exists when there are people buying the competition.

As much as I love my Mac and iPod, the existence of competition has made both much better. It is too bad that the reverse isn't true for Windows; Linux and Mac OS X don't register high enough to be true competitors for Windows (yet). The unveiling of affordable Intel Macs, and hopefully soon CHEAP Intel Macs, may change that yet.


You're missing the one thing that could make Apple a real player in this game:

Stop trying to be a glorified hardware vendor and sell the OS to anyone who wants it!

There's no competition right now because Apple determines exactly what will be in their boxes so they don't have to come up with a bunch of drivers and provide as much tech support as Microsoft does. If they will get past that hump and sell the product to anyone who already has a Windows box and wants to change to OSX without having to buy a new computer, we have a whole new ball game.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: I'm an indie kid
By TomZ on 5/24/2006 7:07:18 PM , Rating: 2
The flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that everybody wants a simple, vertical solution provided by a single vendor, at a higher cost.

There are lots of us out that that like DIY, we like mixing HW and SW from lots of vendors, and we like the cost savings due to this model. We like lots of choices.

Apple is like IBM in the old days. Yes, there was growth and momentum, but they eventually got stomped when things opened up and lots of vendors started playing together. That is the uphill battle that Apple faces going forward.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: I'm an indie kid
By Garreye on 5/24/2006 11:01:31 PM , Rating: 2
There are lots of PCs sold that you can
quote:
just yank out of the box, plug it in and enjoy immediately
. Most people who buy a computer don't have to install drivers or anything like that when they buy there computer. As for the other things: a lot of PC now come with a software dvd players, firewalls(SP2 usually, not the best, but still a firewall), and antivirus (most of which update automatically). Although these features could be improved in many cases, most users who aren't computer saavy probably won't care.
For a central download station, I think the manufacturer of the PC should be doing this, not MS. This would make sense because they would then know the hardware that is in your PC. You can just go to the manufacturer website in most cases and enter your computers model and get a list of downloads, but its not as streamlined as a central download station would be.
As far as dell "copying" apple on opening retail store, it's not like apple invent single brand stores, or did the thousands of other companies that have there own retail sotres copy apple too?


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/25/06, Rating: -1
RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/25/06, Rating: 0
RE: I'm an indie kid
By Larry on 5/24/2006 11:09:55 PM , Rating: 3
Sorry, but I've seen the Apple fan talk since my time with Boston Computer Society and I wasn't sold then either.
Basic rule of thumb, Monopolies suck.
With Apple it's you get it our way or the highway.
Want a different video card then what we support, sorry kid no can do.
Want a different sound system then ours or different features then we support or a different peripheral, printer, monitor, etc. Nope your toast.
Some feature you want that Steve Jobs has decided he doesn't want right now or doesn't see a need for you to have. Guess what you ain't getting it.
Anyone without short term memory problems and who goes back far enough can remember the tortured explanations of why the first MAC's didn't have colored screens, or why SuperDisk was the wave of the future or why Appletalk was the peripherical interconnect of the future.... I do and the attitude p.o.ed me then and it does now as well.
I want choices, and I want them to be my choices, not Steve Jobs.

Now I’m no fan of Microsoft’s either, but at least till lately they stayed out of hardware. That appears to be changing and I don’t like that either.

Am I’m really not a fan of the way both have tried, and largely succeeded, within there respective systems, of killing off all independent software development. Is Apple’s or Microsoft’s word processor really the best one out there? If you said yes, then I pity you, WordPerfect beats them both hands down. Think Excel is really the best spreadsheet, or Access really the best database you can use? Paradox, Firefox, and Quattro did better on their worst days. Sorry but being easy to use and idiot proof may be very satisfying for idiots, but they aren’t doing me much good, I want a little more.

Yea Steve Jobs can make his interlocked Apple stuff all play perfect together, but he is also frozen into it by the same thing. Which is why I can still get faster, better and cheaper hardware in the marketplace on the other side where competition is still the watchword and people HAVE to keep innovating, at least till Microsoft buys Dell and kills the entire market. When that day comes I’m going back to a number two pencil and a pad of paper.

Larry


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Xavian on 5/25/2006 2:13:38 AM , Rating: 2
i like Office, however i only use it for word processing and excel. Database applications is where i use a robust solution. MySQL is better than access in so many ways its not funny.

however i completely agree with what you said about apples 'our supported hardware only' policy. It could also be argued that OSX is ONLY more stable because Jobs refuses to support the sheer number of configurations out there. If apple opened up they might just have the same bug-infested OS that MS has.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By TomZ on 5/25/2006 6:46:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
i like Office, however i only use it for word processing and excel. Database applications is where i use a robust solution. MySQL is better than access in so many ways its not funny.

That's kind of like comparing apples and oranges. If you want to make a comparison to a Microsoft product, you should compare MySQL to Microsoft SQL Server.

Access is not intended to be a "serious" database. It is a desktop application that is simple to use, and has just enough power to get the job done for relatively simple tasks.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/25/06, Rating: -1
RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pirks on 5/25/06, Rating: -1
RE: I'm an indie kid
By Griswold on 5/24/2006 2:56:45 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Its so popular to bash MS for the flaws and security risks in the current windows versions, but even when MS apparently is willing to take the time and do it right for a change (the last couple windows launches were really nothing to call home about), they still get flak from every possible side.



RE: I'm an indie kid
By Phynaz on 5/24/2006 4:13:08 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed.

LOL, I agree with Griswald. I hope I don't get hit by lightning today.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Griswold on 5/24/2006 5:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I hope I don't get hit by lightning today


I'm optimistic in this case.


RE: I'm an indie kid
By Pythias on 5/24/2006 6:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Agreed. Its so popular to bash MS for the flaws and security risks in the current windows versions, but even when MS apparently is willing to take the time and do it right for a change (the last couple windows launches were really nothing to call home about), they still get flak from every possible side.


Its also popular to bash MS because its included in oem pcs but its perfectly okay for apple. *boggle*


Make sure it's virus-proof and exploit-proof!
By shuttleboi on 5/24/2006 4:23:07 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft should not release Vista until it is 100% virus-proof and exploit-proof. Would you buy a new car that had problems with the brakes or the engine?




RE: Make sure it's virus-proof and exploit-proof!
By codeThug on 5/24/2006 5:55:02 PM , Rating: 1
And Forthly (or is it quadly?) He has every right to expect it to be virus fee and exploit proof.

Perhaps your software development team has much lower expectations of the code it throws? Or are you just a sloppy code toad with an axe to grind?


By codeThug on 5/24/2006 5:56:57 PM , Rating: 2
oops, comment got pulled. The moderator obviously beat me to it!!!


RE: Make sure it's virus-proof and exploit-proof!
By TomZ on 5/24/2006 6:12:28 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but it is impossible to make (non-trivial) software 100% secure. To not know this is to not understand the nature of software and the environment in which it operates.

As another poster said below, it's like trying to build a completely theft-proof car - another impossible task. As long as you build in security features, the "bad guys" will figure out ways around them. But because there are no such thing as 100% theft-proof cars doesn't mean the car manufacturer failed to provide reasonable security.

That same level - a "reasonable level" is what we need in software. Forget about 100% "perfect" anything.


By shuttleboi on 5/25/2006 2:10:44 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for the information. For the record, I have a BS, MS, and PhD in computer science and have been known to write a few lines of code.

However, I'm not talking from the point of view of an extremely skilled computer scientist but rather from the point of view of a computer software consumer. As a consumer, I do not want my OS to be buggy and exploitable to such a degree that there are biweekly virus/trojan issues or hundreds of patches to be installed every so often. If you are happy with this situation, then your expectations have been lowered beyond recovery.


By jtesoro on 5/29/2006 5:58:19 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with you that consumers do not want "buggy and exploitable to such a degree that there are biweekly virus/trojan issues or hundreds of patches to be installed every so often". This can be achieved to a "reasonable level", as TomZ previously said.

While I respect your education and your ability to write "a few lines of code", you are way off base if you think it is possible to write an OS of this complexity that is 100% virus proof and exploit proof.


By shuttleboi on 5/25/2006 2:12:09 PM , Rating: 2
Forth, you must really enjoy your job as an ASP website "programmer".


By archermoo on 5/24/2006 4:56:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft should not release Vista until it is 100% virus-proof and exploit-proof. Would you buy a new car that had problems with the brakes or the engine?


Bad analogy. Better would be "Would you buy a car that could be stolen or vandalized?" Of course everyone who owns a car has already done so...


No hurry
By jskirwin on 5/24/2006 3:33:22 PM , Rating: 2
After living through seemingly countless OS upgrades I'm in no hurry to make the leap to Vista - Especially since I don't see what value it offers me or my clients.





RE: No hurry
By nangryo on 5/24/2006 7:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
True...., for me .. I'd rather to see at least SP1 out for the vista to make sure everything goes right. I have some vintage sooftware and hardware that barely run smoothly on XP after many tweaking and modification....., so I'll just wait to get the Vista get better..., and get more driver/native software support.


By formulav8 on 5/24/2006 3:16:34 PM , Rating: 3
But I am kinda looking forward to tinkering around with the hundreds of new API's that Vista is coming with. :)



Jason




Wow.. why haven't I found another site yet?
By Tebor0 on 5/24/06, Rating: 0
RE: Wow.. why haven't I found another site yet?
By Tebor0 on 5/24/2006 4:55:11 PM , Rating: 1
lol.. well..
The point of my long winded post is simply this:
The articles posted on this site are quite often a joke to read and I have trouble taking anything seriously.


By lealwai on 5/24/2006 5:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
Then y are u here?


By codeThug on 5/24/2006 5:26:29 PM , Rating: 2
"When It's Ready"

I believe Id software has the distinction of coining this phrase for the software industry.

Nurse? More thorazine for monkey boy please...




vista stratergy
By crystal clear on 5/25/2006 8:19:42 AM , Rating: 2
Vista was designed specifically for OEM system builds ,so look at it from the marketing angle.
MS wants to target them first,then come to the retail version.So the big boys, big dogs,big guns-call them what U prefer, decide the release schedule/or launch schedule.
Intel also has close working relationship with MS,put that in focus.
Vista finished or unfinished is not the issue-updates,of all types will keep on coming as usual.
So its only marketing stratergy that's keeping MS on the hold-THE OEM people hold the key to the launch date.




Finally...
By Clauzii on 5/25/2006 1:52:16 AM , Rating: 1
...Macro$oft ie. Bill'y found out how good OSX is :)




"Paying an extra $500 for a computer in this environment -- same piece of hardware -- paying $500 more to get a logo on it? I think that's a more challenging proposition for the average person than it used to be." -- Steve Ballmer














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