backtop


Print 128 comment(s) - last by Edchombeau.. on Nov 21 at 12:07 PM

Once the the fastest growing OEM, ASUSTEK Computer becomes the latest victim of the PC slump

Taiwanese electronics OEM ASUSTek Computer Inc. (TPE:2357) in Q2 and Q3 2012 was roughly tied for the world's fastest growing PC maker, according to the Interactive Data Corp. (IDC).  Now its seen that streak of success collapse as poor sales of Windows 8 PCs catch up to it.

I. Windows 8 Finally Catches up to ASUSTEK

As a large percentage of consumers have rejected Windows 8, PC sales have predictably suffered, but the extent to which it has suffered has been eye-catching.  The market has posted the biggest percentage declines in unit sales in the history of the Windows PC.  And ASUSTEK -- once a poster-child of sucess has now become the new face of the consequences of Windows 8's market failure.

In Q3 2013, while Dell and Hewlett Packard Comp. (HPQ) saw virtually no year-to-year growth (0.3 and 0.4 percent growth, respectively) and Lenovo Group, Ltd. (HKG:0992) posted an anemic (but market leading) 2.2 percent growth, ASUSTEK watched its fellow Taiwanese OEM Acer, Inc. (TPE:2353) drop 34.5 percent in unit sales.

The ASUSTEK Windows 8 Transformer Pad
 
This wasn't exactly unexpected; Acer lost 9.6 percent of sales from Q3 2011 to Q3 2013 as well.
 
What was much more shocking was that ASUSTEK -- just a year ago tied for the title of fastest PC sales growth -- saw a massive decline in sales (34.1 percent) that virtually tied it with Acer in market decline.
 
The good news for investors is that ASUSTEK was somewhat shielded from this decline by its offerings in new markets, including the tablet market.  Tablets are ASUSTEK's second largest product category, accounting for 20 percent of the company's total earnings.
 
Despite the decline in PC unit shipments, ASUSTEK managed a modest NT$4.94B ($167.6M USD) profit.  A year ago ASUSTEK made NT$6.71B ($227.1M USD) -- so that's a drop of 26 percent.  Most of this came from NT$1.52B ($51.58M USD) in "one-time" tax expenses, according to a report by The Taipei Times.  It is unclear what these charges pertained to.  Those taxes aside, net profit declined 3.7 percent on a YoY (year-to-year) basis.

Taiwan Dollars
ASUSTEK was hit by a major one-time tax charge in Q3. [Image Source: Reuters]

Revenue was down 4 percent at NT$107.079B ($3.63B USD).  Analysts had expected NT$110B ($3.73B USD), according to a Bloomberg survey - a 2.7 percent miss.  
 
Analysts hoped for earnings of NT$9.03 ($0.306 USD) per share.  Instead they saw NT$6.65 ($0.226 USD) per share -- a major miss -- due largely to them being blindsided by the tax charge.
 
Q4 should prove critical to ASUSTEK.  The OEM remains relatively hopeful that Windows 8.1, an overhaul to the troubled Microsoft operating system, will improve on Windows 8's laggard sales.
 
II. Tablets Remain a Bright Point
 
ASUSTEK's chief financial officer, David Chang remarked, "We remain optimistic about the desktop and laptop market, but our priority is to make the company’s smartphone business turn a profit next year."
 
As the rocky PC market continues to erode, ASUSTEK -- once a champion of Windows 8 -- is turning to alternatives.  In Q3 ASUSTEK song strong sales of Google Inc. (GOOG) branded Nexus 7 tablets, which run the latest version of Google's mobile Android operating system.  Retailing for a modest $230 USD for the 16 GB second-generation variant, these 1080p tablets helped ASUSTEK to 3.5 million units of total sales.  

ASUSTEK Nexus 7
The Nexus 7 (second gen.)

That was good enough to earn third place in the tablet market (with 7.6 percent of total sales), behind Apple, Inc. (AAPL) and South Korea's Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930).  It's worth noting that it's a pretty distant third place, though. Samsung is estimated by the IDC to have sold 9.7m tablets (roughly three times what ASUSTEK sold), while Apple is estimated to have moved 14.1m iPads in the quarter.
 
ASUSTEK is vying with Lenovo and other firms for the contract to produce the third-generation Nexus 7 tablet, which is expected to launch sometime early next year.  Comments ASUSTEK CEO Jerry Shen, "We are still in talks [about the Nexus 7 orders]."
 
PadPhone

If it gets the order, ASUSTEK believes it can sell 13m tablets next, year, which would likely be good enough to remain in third place.
 
Looking to go down the road Samsung did, ASUSTEK is looking to expand its fledgling Android smartphone effort into a bigger global brand next year.  Mr. Shen told investors; "Asus aims to grow its smartphone business from about 1 million units this year to 5 million units next year."


In its home nation, ASUS's Padfone lineup has thus far sold well.  ASUS plans to grow the Padfone and Fonepad/Memofone (the Padfone's phablet brethren) global lineup in 2014.  Mr. Shen said new smartphone models would be unveiled at his company's 2014 Consumer Electronics Show keynote this upcoming January.
 
III. Haswell Powered Chromebooks in the Pipeline
 
Like HP, Acer, and Samsung, ASUSTEK also revealed that it's eyeing Chromebooks as a potential escape route should the Windows 8/8.1 flop continue.  ASUSTEK is planning tentatively to release an 11.6-inch model priced at $199 USD and a 13.3-inch version for $249 USD, according to The Taipei Times. According to a separate report by Bloomberg, these Linux laptops will feature 14 nm Haswell processors from Intel Corp. (INTC).  The same Bloomberg report states that Toshiba Corp. (TYO:6502), another top ten PC OEM, will also release new Chromebooks in H1 2014.
 
If accurate, that would make them one of the cheapest Haswell laptops to date.  These models will like follow a similar model to Acer's recently released C720 Chromebook, which features a 1.4 GHz Haswell Celeron chip, 2 GB of DRAM, a 16 GB SSD, and an 11.6-inch screen for $199.  A similar Acer model retails for $249 with 4 GB of DRAM.  These notebooks are current the #5 and #4 (respectively) top sellers on Amazon.com, Inc.'s (AMZN) notebook computer marketplace.
 
Intel at its annual developer forum in September suggested in a teaser slide that ASUSTEK Haswell Chromebooks were incoming.  Currently Dell is the only top-five PC OEM not to offer a Chromebook.

Haswell Chromebooks
Intel teased at the ASUS Chromebook announcement at IDF.

Chromebooks are fast-inheriting the netbook legacy and driving Windows out of the budget space.  After Microsoft began to slowly mothball Windows XP, the netbooks space appeared all but dead, perhaps taken over by tablets.  Now it appears that the problem was the netbooks, but was Windows all along, given that netbooks are seeing a resurgence, driven by Google's Linux-based Chrome OS.
 
Sundar Pichai, the head of Chrome browser and Chrome OS development, was recently put in charge of Android and is reportedly working to merge the two operating systems' APIs and tree.  If Chrome OS gains access to Android's massive app catalog that could spell the beginning of the end for Microsoft Windows in the budget-to-mid-range laptop market.
 
Indeed, a report from Bloomberg suggests that Microsoft CEO candidate Stephen Elop, Microsoft's current devices chief, is pushing his company to focus mostly on mobile devices when it comes to consumer operating systems, and on enterprise products -- and shuffle effort away from consumer versions of Windows for notebook computers.  He's reportedly advocated further opening up full versions software offerings like Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office for other platforms (such as Chrome OS or Android).  Such a move could prove a prelude to an exit of the low-to-mid range PC market, as it would erode Microsoft's advantages over ChromeOS and other rivals in terms of software availability and familiarity.  
 
Stephen Elop is currently on a shortlist of candidates to become Microsoft's next CEO.  Microsoft's search committee, chaired by top shareholder, former CEO, and company co-founder Bill Gates is expected to announce sometime this month or next month.
 
Of course it Mr. Elop or not, it's perfectly possible that Windows could rebound and continue to be a strong forced in the notebook market.  Microsoft did move 80 million units (to warehouses) compared to about 1 million Chromebooks.  However, Chromebooks appear to be faring far better in direct sales to consumers (which are not in that IDC metric), given their sales on Amazon.  Still the take-home message is that Windows may be down, but it remains the dominant power in the market, until Chromebooks or something else come along and grow sales to a more significant volume.

Vivobook
Despite waivering support, Windows 8 notebooks still comprised the bulk of ASUSTEK sales.

Despite the relative fizzle of wearable computers -- a supposed "next big thing" -- ASUSTEK plans to remain open to the possibility of a smartwatch or similar device.  It said it will introduce a wearable computer offering at the June 2014 Computex trade show in Taiwan.  The wearables segment has been continuously dredged up since the 1980s, when it was first introduced by high-tech Japanese firms, such as smartwatch pioneer Seiko (Holdings Corp. (TYO:8050)).

Sources: ASUSTEK [filing], Bloomberg [analyst estimates], Taipei Times



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

By SAN-Man on 11/18/2013 8:41:05 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is terrible and ugly and I personally have avoided buying a new "Ultrabook" (I hate this term, I hate it) because of it. I'm easily at home with Linux as I am Windows but for work I need Windows - but I'm happy to keep what I have because I don't want Windows 8, 8.1 or any other metro crap with Aero stripped out and looking like Windows 95.

Here is the other side of the coin. I can keep the notebook I have (built in 2011) because PCs are generally very good the last 3-4 years as far as quality. Sure cheap stuff is out and there and always will be but these OEMs have essentially made products good enough they don't need to be refreshed every 3-4 years. I could easily keep using this Dell notebook another 12-24 months (with Windows 7 I may add) without any problems.

I think a lot of people are where I am - they don't want Windows 8 and already have a quality PC.

Some people have stupidly tried to tie the increase tablet sales to the decrease in PC sales as evidence of the future direction of computing. I say to these people, you are stupid, and almost no "real" work gets done on a tablet. Tablets are for a majority of people, entertainment devices. PCs are for a majority of people, productivity devices.

Tablets sales are increases and PC sales are falling but not for the same reasons so please don't say this.

As for Asus, I like their stuff, always have. I have many of their motherboards over the years, I have a Transformer Infinity tablet which I love, and I have an ION based netbook (1201n dual core Atom 330) from 2010 which I still have and guess what - it's held up very well. Asus builds quality stuff and I wish them the best.




By SpartanJet on 11/18/2013 8:52:50 PM , Rating: 4
Windows 8 is awesome if you get past all the shills spreading FUD.

Good luck with the "new" netbooks I'm sure an even weaker device with less hardware compatibility and a horrible OS will do even better than the first try ;)


By JasonMick (blog) on 11/18/2013 9:03:40 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Windows 8 is awesome if you get past all the shills spreading FUD.

Good luck with the "new" netbooks I'm sure an even weaker device with less hardware compatibility and a horrible OS will do even better than the first try ;)
On a touchscreen (or at least a laptop with a good multitouch pad) I'll agree 100 percent.

With a mouse and keyboard, even with 8.1 it still feels real clunky.

Modern UI is a touch UI at the end of the day. It will allow you to get work done faster... if you have touch. If you don't it gets in your way, although it's not unusable in that case, just annoying.

I understand why Microsoft made this choice... touch is the future. And you can get some kinds of work done much faster with touch than with traditional PC mouse/keyboard I/O.

And arguably Microsoft's controls set is more minimalist and well-picked that Apple's UI.

The part that drives me crazy is that once you've used Windows 8/8.1 with touch, you'll love it... but everything else include touchless Windows 8/8.1 and OS X feels clunky and burdensome.

My advice... just spend the extra $100 or $200 to get a touch-equipped notebook. It's more than worth it.


By SpartanJet on 11/18/2013 11:26:44 PM , Rating: 2
Why does it feel clunky? I really don't understand it but get Start8 and you have very little difference between windows 7 and 8 on the UI front. I don't understand how Android's top 25 apps in the Play store are filled with UI enhancements and it seems its OK that androids stock UI is terrible, yet a $5 buck app for windows that effectively takes away the modern UI for those who don't want it is outrageous...

All I see is shilling.


By Reclaimer77 on 11/18/2013 11:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just the Start Menu. It's conceptually bad in just about every area. There are ZERO keyboard/mouse optimizations in the UI. The whole thing feels like a touch interface you're forced to muddle through. There are hidden elements like the Charms Bar, the worst idea EVER in a desktop OS, and non-intuitive "hot corners".

Seriously the list is endless for how bad they f'ed up Windows 8 for a desktop PC.

quote:
I don't understand how Android's top


Apples to orange much?


By Spuke on 11/19/2013 12:26:35 AM , Rating: 3
I just put Win8 on my home machine (updated to 8.1 from there). I REALLY like it. I don't understand how this is a touch only UI. Works great with my keyboard and mouse. Start screen is quicker and more responsive than the old start button plus that associated menu. Geez, I was really nervous about installing in on my box with all the bad mouthing here (even though I defended it) but after using it for 3 weeks now, I like it more than Win7 and I REALLY like Win7. I was even settled on buying Start8 but I like it as is. Just discovered the Win + X shortcut keys, what an excellent idea which will really come in handy at work when we switch there. Don't know what to tell you guys, works great for me.


By Spuke on 11/19/2013 5:19:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Reclaimer is just too dumb to know a few cool keyboard shortcuts in Win8
My reply was not a diss to Rec. Get off the mans berries. I like Rec actually.


By ritualm on 11/19/2013 1:27:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's not just the Start Menu. It's conceptually bad in just about every area. There are ZERO keyboard/mouse optimizations in the UI. The whole thing feels like a touch interface you're forced to muddle through. There are hidden elements like the Charms Bar, the worst idea EVER in a desktop OS, and non-intuitive "hot corners".

Seriously the list is endless for how bad they f'ed up Windows 8 for a desktop PC.

After getting used to the quirks and bugs on the Surface Pro 2 (even encountering the sleep bug while playing songs on Winamp and display being off), everything you said here is bullsh!t.

Windows 8 is designed around touch, there's no getting away from it, so obviously the keyboard/mouse experience will suck. All those "imitate the Windows 7 Start Menu" apps a lot of folks mentioned? Turned out I don't need them after all. Command Prompt with elevated privileges is really one right-click away, as nonsense as it sounds.

I've set up my Surface to boot up to and behave in an environment reminiscent of Windows 7 in a few hours. No third-party software required to get there.


By The0ne on 11/19/2013 9:13:03 AM , Rating: 4
The "clunky"ness of what people are referring to is the bad implementation of the desktop and metro interface. Some apps, including MS, are not seamless so you're left wondering you have to be switch back to desktop mode or vice versa. These are, however, far and few between. People just like to point them out and bash on the OS. Most people will either stay with metro happily using it as a tablet or use the desktop, like me. Either way, use the Windows key or shortcut to switch and stop crying.

The other complaints are pure idiocy imo. There's a guy on top that still wants the look of XP and bashes everything else that's new. I wouldn't worry too much, time will weed these people out.


By YearOfTheDingo on 11/19/2013 3:03:34 AM , Rating: 3
I can't even reach my screen from where I typically sit at my desk. If Microsoft thinks touch is the future then the company is totally out of touch.


By datdamonfoo on 11/19/2013 10:08:41 AM , Rating: 3
You don't need touch to use Windows 8. It works just like 7 aside from the new Start Screen (which doesn't require touch either).


By euler007 on 11/19/2013 8:53:30 AM , Rating: 2
Don't know why you feel that way. On windows 7 98% of the time I would hit start, type the name of the app I was looking for and either hit enter or click on it if it wasn't the first of multiple choices.

In windows 8, same thing. This is coming from someone spending most of his time working on point clouds and office documents.


By kleinma on 11/19/2013 11:09:54 AM , Rating: 1
On the only Win8 machine I have that doesn't have touch, I don't find it clunky because i don't run any metro apps on it, except for netflix. I boot to the desktop, I search with win+s, it never takes me out of the desktop.

On my surface pro and a machine we have at the office with a 27" acer touch screen, windows 8 is amazing. I even run traditional desktop apps with ease using no physical keyboard and mouse, the 27" screen is more than accomodating for my fingers, and it sits at a super low 30 degree angle so typing on the on screen keyboard is even easy to do.


By ritualm on 11/19/2013 2:02:57 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is awesome.

Unless you have a conventional PC that doesn't have touch input in the first place.


By Reclaimer77 on 11/19/2013 4:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unless you have a conventional PC that doesn't have touch input in the first place.


Exactly! That's like 99% of all PC users. Honestly hardly ANYONE uses a touchscreen with a PC. Even laptops, there's only a handful of models that come with one, and they don't sell all that well.

I don't mind touch interfaces. Hell I use them every day. But they simply do NOT belong on a desktop OS. I can't believe after all this time, after the failure of Windows 8 is beyond proven, we're still debating this crap.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 4:21:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
But they simply do NOT belong on a desktop OS
That's why Win8 has a full desktop interface, nothing was removed except old start menu which was replaced by more convenient full screen one, that is all. I can't believe after all this time, after Windows 8 has captured almost 10% of the market, we're still debating this crap about Metro being somehow "forced" upon poor lame Reclaimer boy. Grow up.


By ritualm on 11/19/2013 5:11:52 PM , Rating: 1
It's funny watching the DT equivalent of Charlie Miller call Reclaimer77 out for being a troll.


By Nagorak on 11/18/2013 10:29:08 PM , Rating: 2
The fact is a lot of people have rejected Windows 8. It was obviously a huge error on Microsoft's part. It doesn't matter if you use it that you'll get used to it. People don't want to use it to begin with, so they never get that far.

The bottom line is you need to listen to what the customer wants, not try to tell them what they want. The transition to the new Windows 8 UI should have been handled across two or three OS releases, at a minimum. And really the system should have been tailored differently for desktop PCs and tablets, with laptops somewhere in the middle.


By retrospooty on 11/18/2013 11:11:06 PM , Rating: 4
Yup, it seems pretty simple, two different interfaces (KB/Mouse vs. Touchscreen) require two different UI's. Until MS realizes that, it will keep hurting.

You didn't see Apple breaking Mac's UI when IOS came out and got popular... There is a season for that. Because that would be a catastrophic blunder. A freegin obvious one.


By Mitch101 on 11/18/2013 11:18:45 PM , Rating: 5
Agree all they have to do is allow Classic Mode (Windows 7) with the Start Menu or the Touch Option if you have a touchscreen. Let the consumer decide the interface and switch between them on user profiles.

The underlying OS is an improvement over Windows 7 its the GUI that most people cant get past.


By Spuke on 11/19/2013 12:27:41 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Let the consumer decide the interface and switch between them on user profiles.
I like it as is in 8.1 form.


By Da W on 11/19/2013 8:13:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The fact is a lot of people have rejected Windows 8. It was obviously a huge error on Microsoft's part. It doesn't matter if you use it that you'll get used to it. People don't want to use it to begin with, so they never get that far.


THAT is the only anti-windows8 argument i'll agree with. As far as i like it and i can use it with keyboard + mouse, people don't buy it. It failled. They need to move on.

Thing is, there are very few apps i need to use. For that mather there are few apps i use on my android phone too. Apps are overhyped. For the most part they are rebaggaged websites or a simple functionality of what we use to call a software.


By domboy on 11/19/2013 8:41:07 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
THAT is the only anti-windows8 argument i'll agree with. As far as i like it and i can use it with keyboard + mouse, people don't buy it. It failled. They need to move on.

Thing is, there are very few apps i need to use. For that mather there are few apps i use on my android phone too. Apps are overhyped. For the most part they are rebaggaged websites or a simple functionality of what we use to call a software.


Thank you!! Finally somebody that thinks like I do. This whole app craze is like going back to pre-internet days when that's all there was. Sure sometimes an app makes sense, but for most apps that are just website replacements are reskins, no thanks.

The biggest problem I have with Modern UI is the lack of a task or status bar. It's the same as having the desktop taskbar set to auto-hide, and I don't like it. I shouldn't have to swipe to see the time, network status, battery level, etc. Sure some things should be full screen (video, some games), but the rest, no.


By Dukeajuke on 11/19/2013 9:37:28 AM , Rating: 1
Windows 8 is an ok platform if you simply use it to launch appliations. But it is a POS if you actually need to do any work on them that requires multitasking - especially programming/application development. This is pretty much a unanimous cry among IT professionals.


By OoklaTheMok on 11/19/2013 12:01:57 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm... I don't have any problems developing enterprise software in Windows 8.

Me thinks something else is actually the issue...


By jimbo2779 on 11/19/2013 12:10:19 PM , Rating: 2
I am a software developer and use win8.1 (used win8 since last November) and I also have no issues using it to develop on.

There is nothing that stops me or other developers from still doing exactly what they did before win8 came along.


By JasonMick (blog) on 11/18/2013 8:59:36 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Windows 8 is terrible and ugly and I personally have avoided buying a new "Ultrabook" (I hate this term, I hate it) because of it. I'm easily at home with Linux as I am Windows but for work I need Windows - but I'm happy to keep what I have because I don't want Windows 8, 8.1 or any other metro crap with Aero stripped out and looking like Windows 95.
Why not just downgrade to Windows 7 and do a dual boot with a nice Linux distro like Mint?

I think that with Haswell ultrabooks are finally catching up in terms of build quality and performance, so long as you're willing to pay at least $700.

I'm currently not sold, because I need better graphics than today's crop of ultrabooks offer. I'm hopeful about next year's developments, though.

Starting with Broadwell we should see even more power gains and next year's 20 nm GCN 2 (AMD) and Maxwell (NVIDIA) discrete GPUs should also be significantly cooler, given the smaller/better process.

I think with those gains, we may finally see ultrabooks with gaming worthy graphics in a nice package.

Currently the only models that really deliver on that promise are the MacBook Pro (technically not even a PC or Ultrabook, but in the same general category, spec-wise) and the Razer Edge... beyond that you have the Zenbook Prime (750M, iirc?) ... and then a whole bunch of laptops with weaker graphics.

The key thing is the Razer/MBP/Zenbook Prime are all ridiculously expensive right now, where as you can get gaming notebooks from MSI et al. that are built like a Mac truck for half the price and with a slightly better discrete GPU.

As for Windows 8, have you tried it on a nice touch laptop, like the Lenovo Carbon? I think touch really makes it radically better.

I find that most things in the Modern UI are clumsy without a touch screen, but are simple and rival their desktop predecessor actions when you have a touch screen. I'll admit it's a learning curve, but I feel it's a superior UI in terms of launchers and gestures to OS X (though I haven't used Mavericks extensively). My complaint about Mavericks is similar to my complaint about Ubuntu -- too many redundant/overlapping app launchers and other gestures.... some of which really are pretty ugly.

Windows 8.1 is more minimalist in terms of the UI controls set, and I like the controls it picked.... but I understand that's somewhat subjective.

On the other hand, in my experience Windows 8.1 on mouse/keyboard is a headache inducing miserable experience. It's really a touch-necessary operating system.


By ie5x on 11/19/2013 2:40:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
gaming worthy graphics

Its a very relative term... With portables, its always going to be a catch up game. When you say the current ultra-portables are not worth it, you would surely be commenting based on your experience with current gaming titles. An year from now, with better H/W arriving for both Desktops and portables, you would still get the same results with the "then" contemporary gaming titles.

Put it simply, my four year old Lenovo ideapad can run Crysis, but that's not what I play these days...

Agree with the rest of your post on Win 8.


By Solandri on 11/19/2013 7:55:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Currently the only models that really deliver on that promise are the MacBook Pro (technically not even a PC or Ultrabook, but in the same general category, spec-wise) and the Razer Edge... beyond that you have the Zenbook Prime (750M, iirc?) ... and then a whole bunch of laptops with weaker graphics.

The key thing is the Razer/MBP/Zenbook Prime are all ridiculously expensive right now, where as you can get gaming notebooks from MSI et al. that are built like a Mac truck for half the price and with a slightly better discrete GPU.

Sounds like you're in the same boat as me. Yeah the high price sucks, but I can afford it (though I'd prefer if I can get it on sale like I got my current Sony Z1 - for about 50% MSRP). I'm tired of reinstalling software so have decided to put everything except games in a virtual machine, so want a quad core this time around. I like the portability of a 13.3" screen, but it leaves a substantial gap on the sides in my bag so I can probably safely move up to a 15.6" screen.

I do photo editing as well so the poor screen on the Razer eliminates it. How a company can get everything else right and blow it on one must-have feature is beyond me.

Apple pulled a switcheroo and the 2013 MBP only has the $100 750M as a $600 option (you do get more RAM and a bigger SSD with it but certainly not $500 worth), whereas the 650M was standard on the 2012 MBP. OTOH their screen has 100% sRGB coverage...

The Zenbook Prime's screen is only about 92% sRGB from what I can tell. The other features are solid though. I'm waiting for Asus to refresh it with Haswell before deciding how to proceed.

Dell's 2013 XPS 15 is slimmed down to 4.4 lbs. They just announced it a month ago so I'm still waiting for reviews on it.

Acer's V5 is 4.4 lbs and supposedly comes with an option for a 750M (two in SLI even). I can only find it with the 720M in their store, so maybe it's only offered in other countries? Main drawback is the construction is all-plastic. The price is sub-$1000 though.

Samsung's ATIV Book 8 is a bit outside the category at 5.6 lbs, but it's 0.9 inches thick and some versions have the AMD 8870M which performs about the same as the nVidia 750M.

The Sony Flip 15 is 4.8 lbs, and converts to a tablet as well. It has an option for an nVidia 735M (about half the speed of the 750M). Sony is about the only other company which takes screen quality as seriously as Apple does.

They're getting close. I'm hopeful there will be a model which pretty much hits every item on my checklist in the next few months.


By domboy on 11/19/2013 8:45:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why not just downgrade to Windows 7 and do a dual boot with a nice Linux distro like Mint?


Can't help but wonder, if Windows 8 is the problem, why don't the OEMs just go back to selling Windows 7 on all their laptops and desktops???


By spamreader1 on 11/19/2013 10:24:17 AM , Rating: 2
That's how we buy them, CDW still gives our company the downgrade option.

Win8 seems fine as a kiosk style station for casual users, once they get a single touch screen, and learn how to search since it's hard to find things without using the search features. Not a problem if you only use a 1/2 dozen apps. It’s huge pain in environments that have several dozen apps.

I used it for almost 6 months, I finally broke down and couldn't take it anymore, and went back to Win7. The damn thing just has too many issues with dual monitors and multitasking for me and I tire of having to use search to find things. I want hierarchy back.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 10:36:56 AM , Rating: 2
That is how the whole enterprise purchase system works. YOu buy a new laptop or desktop with Win8 and it comes with a Win7 downgrade. Models that are specifically made for enterprise just come with Win7 already loaded. Win8 is doing zero in the business world.


By topdomino on 11/20/2013 5:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm currently not sold, because I need better graphics than today's crop of ultrabooks offer. I'm hopeful about next year's developments, though.

...

I think with those gains, we may finally see ultrabooks with gaming worthy graphics in a nice package.


I think you hit the nail on the head with the gist of what you're saying.

Back in 2008, I built a desktop for gaming and got a laptop in 2009 for work and travel and maybe some bedside web surfing. As time went by and smartphones got better, I switched a lot of my web surfing to the phone but I still used the laptop for work. Gaming and working on the desktop(even after some upgrades) started to be a chore. In fact the whole machine became an eyesore. Its equivalent might look good on a 15 year old's room, but not on the rooms that most adults keep. Desktops take up way too much space and clash with the decor (and sometimes with your relationships.) So, like a lot of people (maybe most), I moved most of my work and even my gaming to the laptop and forswore the concept of the desktop. Now, I want one machine to do it all.

At this point I need a new PC so I can game better and get better wifi. But the offerings if you want to game are either way overpriced (Alienware), underpowered (Razr Blade), stupidly configured (Asus ROG with no 802.11ac, weird RAID SSD setup and a cheap display), or just plain old butt ugly (MSI and Clevo). The rest are simply non-existent. In these days when most people don't want a desktop, gaming laptops from most major PC manufacturers aren't even in the lineup (Sony, Lenovo), or seem like an afterthought (Samsung, Toshiba). For example, the Samsung gamer laptop doesn't even have an SSD, and Samsung is a major SSD maker.

Sure, there are some great looking ultrabooks but those only work for people who either have a desktop or just use their computers for the web and maybe word processing. And none of the gaming laptops offer a touchscreen. At this point I'm thinking nobody even makes touchscreens in the 15"-17" laptop range. So, I've held back from buying anything because, as someone else said above, my old stuff still works for the basics and I'm not going to put money in a machine that won't make me happy.

I don't think it has that much to do with Windows 8 being bad. In my case, it hasn't been a factor stopping me at all. I even considered buying an all-in-one desktop because it wouldn't look so bad, but then realized they run these huge resolution screens on just the Intel HD graphics and decided my microwave oven would make a better gaming PC than those.

So, I keep waiting and not buying. Waiting for companies like ASUS to take a page from Apple's playbook and stop making 30 different models and just make 4 or 5 really good ones, one of which I'd like to buy. I think a lot of people feel the same way.


By ritualm on 11/20/2013 10:59:30 PM , Rating: 2
Up to last year I've always built my own desktops with parts that would suit my needs.

Back in around 2002 I bought an iBook G4 (800MHz) for college work. Then in 2007 I replaced that with a 10" ultraportable. Nobody in the tech industry called them "netbooks" yet. The problem was that both laptops were just not very fast compared to my desktops. The iBook died shortly after I bought the 10" (it had already got several logic board swaps and a battery swap), while I kept the latter until last year.

In 2012 I started planning on moving everything to a laptop. My desktop had a fast dual-core without turbo, and it's beginning to be a bother when encoding videos (so I can play them on the phone), so the ideal spec sheet boiled down to the following:

- quad-core
- 8-16GB RAM
- 256GB+ SSD (non-negotiable; I don't want HDDs or fancy "SSD cache" setups)
- a display that does not suck (non-negotiable; as soon as I see TN/LED, I'm leaving, even if everything else rocks)
- 1080p display minimum (my TV is a 40" 1080p)
- no gaming laptop aesthetics

I don't want gaming laptops. They are always too heavy, too tacky (lots of questionable design choices), and too slow for the money - and yet they still come with various gotchas. I could build a desktop that smokes them for lunch on everything except portability, and do that for half of whatever they're asking. So anything by Clevo, ASUS' ROG line, and MSI were out.

Then I needed the display to not suck. A $500 tablet provides a better, more usable and comfortable viewing experience than hundreds of laptops out there. It is just ridiculous. TN display? Die! Less than 1080p? Go to hell! This requirement alone killed off a lot of options.

I needed a quad-core, as this laptop is also my home's desktop. All Ultrabooks were out. ASUS' Zenbook Prime didn't make the cut because of the CPU.

When Computex ended, that choice was supposed to be a portable workstation. I can't game on them, and it would have cost a fortune, but at least it won't suck. Then Apple released a laptop that hit every bullet point in my spec sheet, albeit for a steep price - and I bought that.

The whole ordeal made me sick. Of all the potential laptops, at the end I had no other choice but Apple because everyone else were sleeping on their jobs.


By Jeffk464 on 11/19/2013 12:44:40 PM , Rating: 2
Being able to run android apps on a chromeOS laptop would be much more useful to me than anything I run on windows. If Google does eventually manage to merge the two I will definitely be ditching windows for chrome/android on everything except my gaming desktop.


Laptop screens
By chmilz on 11/18/2013 9:34:33 PM , Rating: 3
I personally believe that when buyers go to the store thinking about buying a laptop, they look at the screen on their phone, and they look at the screen on the $250 tablet, and they look at the screen on the laptop, and walk out. That's what is killing the market.

If MS was smart it wouldn't sell Windows to any OEM that put anything less than a 1080p screen in the machine.




RE: Laptop screens
By Omega215D on 11/18/2013 10:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
Then MS will have many people and OEMS screaming at them for being too restrictive. Acer comes to mind as the type to do such a thing almost immediately.

For a technological society people sure are dumb. They can't realize that everything comes at a price and don't even realize that they paid much more for their phone in the long run than a laptop with a larger display and more processing power.


RE: Laptop screens
By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 1:26:30 AM , Rating: 2
I am not even sure whether the drop in unit sales from Asus is their intention all along. If Asus makes less units than previous year, of course there will be less units being sold. I have problems finding some models from Asus in the market and looks like they are sold out. And they are not making a loss like Acer does. Company only lose money if they produce too many units that end up not selling. You can produce less units that are in line with the market demand and yet turn a decent profit. The only thing that is true is that as a company, Asus is diversifying instead of focusing solely on PC.


RE: Laptop screens
By Samus on 11/19/2013 4:38:07 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 isn't even that bad. It's just that nobody wants to spend 20 minutes understanding the Start screen and how superior it is to the start menu when you combine it with gestures (whether it be via touch or mouse/trackpad) charms and right clicking on the area where the start menu/button used to be to get advanced functions. Most tasks are faster to perform. Windows 8.1 improved all this quite a bit, adding even more right-click tasks to the start button and allowing for more tiles on low-resolution screens.

But lets focus on the real issue here: spyware and functionality.

Tablets are immune to most spyware, which is a $22 billion a year problem in the United States alone. All those PC's being fixed by Geek Squad at Best Buy. Probably infected with spyware. Windows RT, Android and iOS are virtually immune to spyware, and are very easy to reset if they are messed up.

Functionality is obvious. It used to be that EVERYBODY had to buy a PC to surf the web, email, play games, Skype, download music and watch YouTube. That isn't the case anymore. You have two HUGE markets migrating away from PC's (desktop and laptops)

- home users/families that primarily rely on their smartphones/tablets for almost everything and simply keep the dinosaur computer for word processing
- the integration market; kiosks, cash registers, medical devices, sign in terminals, user manuals, guest devices, and so on. All of this used to be done on a PC. Now it's done on mostly iPads.

Nobody did anything wrong. Microsoft still makes a good OS and PC makers still make good PC's, even if they have 1366x768 screens. The thing is... times change. Spyware/adware/ransomware is out of control, and there are cheaper, safer alternatives for those at risk. Business environments are evolving around portability and minimalistic simplicity.

The PC isn't going to die, it's just going to stop growing because many of the tasks it serves will be replaced by competing products. But the PC will always be a workstation for office users.


RE: Laptop screens
By Jeffk464 on 11/19/2013 1:50:43 PM , Rating: 2
I think part of it is we just don't need to buy a new computer every few years anymore. Nowadays a 3 year old computer can pretty much still do everything people and companies need.


RE: Laptop screens
By inperfectdarkness on 11/19/2013 6:13:13 AM , Rating: 3
I would go a step further and insist that at least one model carry a resolution above 1080p. I'm about to pull the trigger on an MSI 3k laptop...simply because of the GPU and the screen.

4 years or more, the laptop market has languished without any significant improvements or innovations. If I can't get my 16:10 back, at least I can have something better than god-forsaken 1080p on my display.


RE: Laptop screens
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 5:09:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I personally believe that when buyers go to the store thinking about buying a laptop, they look at the screen on their phone, and they look at the screen on the $250 tablet, and they look at the screen on the laptop, and walk out. That's what is killing the market.

You can't put the blame on screen resolution alone. It's more than that.

For about $250 or so you can have a screen that can be used at almost every angle imaginable and still look good. So why can't you get the equivalent or better when you pay 3X that and up on a laptop? Because most OEMs assumed you're using that laptop looking at the screen directly, not from off angles. They just need something that looks fabulous head-on.

Apple wasn't immune to this cost-cutting measure. Until mid-2012 all their laptops still used TN panels, just like everyone else.
quote:
If MS was smart it wouldn't sell Windows to any OEM that put anything less than a 1080p screen in the machine.

It won't work. Craptastic 1080p laptop displays do exist.


More Windows 8 FUD
By troysavary on 11/18/2013 9:54:15 PM , Rating: 2
Asus grew its PC sales on netbooks. The EEE PC was a strong seller for them. Tablets have cannibalized the netbook market. That would have happened whether or not Windows 8 launched. Still, even given that, Asus still sold more PCs last quarter than they did Android tablets and phones put together. In what world is 4.5 million in a quarter (Asus PC sales) weak but 1 million in a year (Asus phone sales) strong?

Chromebooks are nothing more than a rounding error in percentage of sales. They are a threat to no one. Who wants a laptop that is nothing more than a glorified web browser?

If no one is buying Windows 8, why are Lenevo, Dell and HP all growing sales, albeit modestly? Why have all the major OEMs offered Windows 8 tablets and convertibles if they do not expect sales?

Microsoft is in no danger of becoming irrelevant. Sales are still strong, profits are still high. Share price is growing and investors are starting to see the value of Microsoft's vision of being on all screens. Windows Phone is growing and the tablet wars have just started.




RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By Belard on 11/19/13, Rating: 0
RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By troysavary on 11/19/2013 5:18:49 AM , Rating: 1
I was not aware that the whole world revolves around Belard. Hey everyone, Belard made a post on his iPad, just give up and stop making PCs.

There are way more PCs out there than there are iOS or Android devices. You are delusional if you think the billions of Windows devices used in business are just going away because people are buying smartphones. Sales in PCs are slowing because everyone already has a PC, and they are keeping them longer. Funny thing, phone makers are already seeing that effect, and the market is much newer.


RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 6:33:41 AM , Rating: 3
"MS has less than 24% of the OS market... More people are using iOS and android than Microsoft."

Dont forget, every Android, iDevice and Mac is made in factories that run their businesses of MS PC's. Every planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc... It all runs on PC's.

No, MS is secure. On the enterprise front and the systems that support it they are the only player, no one else has ever come close, no one else is even trying.


RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By ClownPuncher on 11/19/2013 11:15:48 AM , Rating: 1
So... business gets done on Windows and shitty posts get done on an iPad via Belard's couch?


RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 7:20:11 AM , Rating: 2
iPad is irrelevant as well, because there are a lot more devices running Android OS than iPad. Back to MS, there are still more PCs sold last year than iPad and Android tablets combined. The 24% share remark is only true when you include all the smartphone devices being sold. But then again, it is like saying Nokia has more market share than MS back in year 2000 as mobile phone has always been outselling PCs.

Apple iPad has a long way to go before they can reach the 300+ millions units of PC sold in 2013.


RE: More Windows 8 FUD
By Solandri on 11/19/2013 8:08:53 AM , Rating: 2
Like I tell people, if you expand the definition of "computer" enough, Linux is the best-selling OS in the world. It's used as the embedded OS on over a billion "computers" sold every year (routers, smart TVs, DVD/Blu-Ray players, cable boxes, etc).


This will go mostly unnoticed...
By polishvendetta on 11/19/2013 9:30:03 AM , Rating: 2
This will go unnoticed because this site is overly anti-Windows, including the writer of this article. But for those of you who are interested in some facts from multiple sources from the past month, and not links to the writers own articles from earlier this year (May 2013)

Gartner is predicting Windows devices sold will continue to increase
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2610015

Worldwide PC sales are falling, while US PC sales saw a 3.5% increase. While yes the global market is in a decline, I don’t really think you can logically pin it on one product when one of the largest PC markets in the world is posting an increase.
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2604616

PC Sales started falling at the beginning of 2012. Windows 8 wasn't released until October 25th 2012. So this article postulates millions of consumers preemptively stopped buying PC's anticipating the "awful" Windows 8 operating system.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/10/...

Even if the market is declining, the fact that the writer goes so far out of his way to make it seem like it’s the fault of a singular product would make me suspect his motives and any kind of writing he does. This is more a persuasive essay to make people believe that Windows 8 is a bad product then actual news or even an editorial.




RE: This will go mostly unnoticed...
By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 4:43:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Gartner is predicting Windows devices sold will continue to increase
Ah the same good old Gartner that was predicting Windows Phone a winner in 2013 or so? Bring it on baby, I like the smell of crack cocaine in the morning :))) lol


By polishvendetta on 11/19/2013 5:08:06 PM , Rating: 2
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to read this. I know its pretty far down in the comments. Second, Gartner is an analytics company, not fortune tellers. If 100% of their predictions were wrong, or not based on sound observations they would not be the company they are today.

Finaly if the only issue you have is with some future predictions by an analysis firm then you agree that these current reports of PC sales are more accurate then the article writen and the theory of Windows 8 ruining a company is lunacy.


Prices
By Gunbuster on 11/19/2013 9:19:38 AM , Rating: 2
Would be nice if they turned to pricing their 4K screen in the realm of sanity so I don't have to buy a Seiki TV.

31" Asus: $3500

39" Seiki: $500




RE: Prices
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:17:49 PM , Rating: 1
Seiki is a 39" 4K 30Hz TV.

Asus is a 31" 4K 60Hz TV.

The Seiki is perfectly fine for non-motion tasks. It's like paying $100,000 for a Ferrari, only to have it sit in the garage because its engine is dead.


RE: Prices
By inighthawki on 11/19/2013 6:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
Have fun trying to get the Seiki to do >30hz in 4K mode. Should be super fun to game on. There is a reason that other 4K monitors cost so much more.


the actual problem is price
By Bubbacub on 11/19/2013 6:21:47 AM , Rating: 2
ordinary people remember the 'race to the bottom' 4-5 years ago when prices were dropping every generation of product.

now with the advent of 'ultrabooks' prices have been jacked up to much higher levels (the acer s7 price is a good example of how optimistic dementia appears to have taken hold in the acer's higher management).

now i understand that a lightweight chassis, IPS panel and an SSD costs more - joe public however just sees the price and they are not going to spend two or three times what they used to spend on a laptop in the middle of a recession.




RE: the actual problem is price
By Bubbacub on 11/19/2013 6:24:25 AM , Rating: 2
also when you add in a new interface like win 8's this compounds the problem

the average visitor to this site knows about start8 and can learn about how to access the charms bar and learn keyboard shortcuts - 95% of the population however just get confused unless someone is around to show them through everything.

im not saying that ordinary people cant use or learn to use win8 - just that they cant be bothered to. they arnt interested in computers and just want things to work the way they used to.

if a new computer = lots more money than it used to cost and requires effort to learn new things = stay with the old computer, which if its running win7 with a core 2 duo or above will be more than adequate for pretty much everything other than gaming.


Windows 8 Is Annoying At Best
By bitmover461 on 11/19/2013 9:29:13 AM , Rating: 2
I actually ran Windows 8 for almost a year and tolerated it waiting for the 8.1 'fix'. I was greeted with a joke of a Start Button, an IE that would not start (yes I disabled all the add-ins), and the *requirement* that I log in with an online account. Needless to say I reverted to Windows 7 and am much happier.




By datdamonfoo on 11/19/2013 10:07:35 AM , Rating: 2
There is no requirement to have an online account. You can have a local account.


Amazon Sales
By IntelUser2000 on 11/19/2013 9:00:35 AM , Rating: 2
I know that Windows 8/8.x is easy to make fun of and Jason Mick is the king of bad articles but perhaps they should look at the Amazon charts again.

#1 Laptop sold is now the Bay Trail based Asus Transformer T100. It uses Windows 8.1.

Also in the Tablet section, when the Dell Venue Pro was at regular price(now its higher because of high demand) it was regularly in the 15-30th best selling Tablets. No Windows 8 Tablet has been that high.

I assume Bay Trail devices will allow record Tablet sales for Windows and actually have a fighting chance against other OSes.

Let's see how Asus fares the quarter of T100 launch. There was an article that was in October every other manufacturer suffered big losses but Asus had big gains, mostly thanks to the T100. I assume Dell will do well too.




8.1 Hopes
By ResStellarum on 11/19/2013 12:16:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Q4 should prove critical to ASUSTEK. The OEM remains relatively hopeful that Windows 8.1, an overhaul to the troubled Microsoft operating system, will improve on Windows 8's laggard sales.

A polished turd is still a turd.

8.1 doesn't change the fact that metro-sexual is still there getting in the way of the desktop. The start button still takes the user to metro-sexual land.




Windows 8.1 on non-touch PC's
By Edchombeau on 11/21/2013 12:07:05 PM , Rating: 2
I won't put W8 on my non-touch PC's until it 's packaged with a future replacement---which will probably be an Allinone Desktop and/or touch Ultrabook. Retiree's like advanced capability (Ultrabook)when traveling; to post and edit photo's and other full service activities.
And, have similar hi-end Desktops at home. We don't need smartphones; don't want to be connected 24/7--just use a cell phone for communication on the go.




I blame AMD
By euler007 on 11/19/2013 8:56:08 AM , Rating: 1
Total non-competition on the CPU front allowed Intel to space out their offering and to push their hardware less. Everything after Sandy Bridge has been small steps.

SSDs have been bottlenecked for 2-3 years or more, video cards makers gladly sell us graphic cards for more than console costs.

What's lacking in the PC market is competition at the component level (this coming from an Intel shareholder...)




FIND NEW JOBS......
By emilinedbp157 on 11/20/2013 4:52:53 AM , Rating: 1
if you need a job try this site JOBS61 (dot)COM. Dan does it at home and makes $17.90 hourly just sitting and typing stuff all day...No experience needed too




For me as a long long time windows user...
By greenchinesepuck on 11/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/18/2013 11:15:28 PM , Rating: 1
They aren't going anywhere in the enterprise sector. MS will be fine. Not as profitable as the last decade, but still fine and wealthy for a long long time. Eventually they will figure out that a touchscreen UI doesn't work on a KB Mouse PC and fix it.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 1:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
enterprise is all BYOD these days and BYOD means mostly Apple and sometimes Android, and almost never MS, so...make your conclusions


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 1:59:35 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8.x doesn't suck. It does require a touch interface to be useful, and it's all the companies who put it on touchless PCs that makes the OS suck. Put simply, if a PC has W8 and it doesn't have touch input at all, then that PC is worthless.

And I'm surprised you actually believe what Tony Swash is smoking re: tech. Man, you got trolled big time and you don't even realize it.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 3:04:20 AM , Rating: 2
Well, Tony said MS is declining and I see PC sales falling with NOTHING to lean upon instead. I repeat, MS has NOTHING to replace Windows with, absolutely nothing. Do you understand this part?

When PC sales decline enough (and they will, do you understand this part? or you think sales of PCs automagically rebound and will grow again?) MS has nowhere to go.

The other much more important parts of the market which are all mobile are now taken by Google and Apple, MS tried to kick them out for many years and always failed miserably, they can't do it, it's obvious now.

So all of this stuff (decline of Windows PC and absence of other significant sources of revenue besides Windows PC for Microsoft) has been explained many times by Tony. I wish he were trolling. I wish MS had another source of income just as huge as Windows. I wish Windows were not declining. I wish PC sales grew all the time, forever.

You just do not realize that the world has changed, but Tony did. Now I do too. Join us or fade away with MS. You have no other choice.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By troysavary on 11/19/2013 5:11:41 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I wish MS had something like an office suite or an enterprise service division or tools division or something that provided revenues.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 7:19:10 AM , Rating: 2
LOL... I know right?

GReenChinesePirks has always had a problem seeing the whole picture. He will look at one aspect and make a conclusion based on partial info. This is the guy that was convinced of RIMM's comeback and aggressively defended it right through the end of 2012, 2-3 years after everyone and I mean EVERYONE else saw it coming. Thick headed.


By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 7:37:20 AM , Rating: 2
The so called post PC era will one day be remembered as post Steve Job Apple fan delusional era. The iOS is falling behind fast compared to the competitors and yet they still think it will one day rule the world.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By troysavary on 11/19/2013 9:13:15 AM , Rating: 2
Well, as a Canadian, I have to admit to holding out hope for a RIM comeback too. Funny thing though, around here, you'd never know RIM was in trouble. I still see Blackberries everywhere. But unfortunately, Canada is not a large enough market to save RIM.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 9:26:25 AM , Rating: 2
Holding out hope and insisting it will happen are two totally different things. I hope Blackberry can find a way too, simply because a duopoly between Android and IOS doesnt help consumers. More choices = more competition = faster innovation and lower prices for us all, period. But that doesnt mean I am naive enough to think they will do it. RIMM/BB has proven one thing... They don't have the talent to compete in the modern era. They had a great email product when no-one else had anything in the early 2000's and they built a business around it... Once competition set in they simply couldn't compete even when they finally had a plan... It took them 3 years from an already good OS (QNX)to a released phone, its just too slow. By the time OS10 came out with 1 year old specs, no-one cared.

Anyhow, my point is that this guy and the Tony Swash clown he says is right above are both totally myopic when it comes to tech. They see what they are looking at at the moment and make a judgement, without seeing the whole picture. Sure, if you look at phones and consumer products, MS looks like its going to topple... But wait, factor in the highly profitable enterprise sector and the fact the the ENTIRE WORLD runs off of it's software including every factory that makes every iDevice, Android, Blackberry or any other products for that matter. Enterprise is extremely profitable and isnt going anywhere for MS.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 1:38:40 PM , Rating: 1
retro, you are myopic, not me, you forgot that enterprise world was running blackberry 100% until it got kicked out by Apple and Google, exact same thing is happening now with MS - legacy PCs are slowly being replaced by cheaper alternatives like tablets, it already has happened in the consumer market where people, mostly stopped buying PCs (especially in the US) and it will catch up to enterprise inevitably. if you didn't notice, the consumer markets are the sign of the future, enterprise ALWAYS follows consumer markets. MS has NOTHING to counter Apple and Google mobile domination, so they will keep losing customers slowly. you did not notice Windows sales declining in MS quarterly reports, but I did! you don't know that Office revenue is dead without Windows 'cause Windows is the only platform for them. where's that iPad Office huh? you tell me, you smart troll, where is it?? huh?

as for RIM, yeah I still keep laughing at dumb Mick who predicted RIM's sale before the end of 2012, now a year has passed, Mick's dumb predictions of course did not happen, so what now? tell me the story about you being RIM CEO and knowing that they did sold out and blah blah, shit like that. of course you armchair back CEOs know it all, like I said I know your first name is actually thorsten not retro lol :) how does it feel when they kicked you out buddy? you're not governing RIM anymore, question is will you stop pretending to be RIM CEO? I bet you won't! right? heheee


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 2:07:58 PM , Rating: 1
"you forgot that enterprise world was running blackberry 100% until it got kicked out by Apple and Google, exact same thing is happening now with MS"

Umm... Sorry, that is just flat. RIMM had 2 powerful and highly viable competitors taking over (IOS and Android) on the mobile front... MS has NO competitor taking over on these main enterprise areas. 1. Servers , 2. Software (planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc...) 3. Corporate Desktop/Laptops (running the software from #2). 4. MS office, Excel and Outlook in particular.

The fact that you can compare RIMM to MS is an absolute laugh-er. LOL.

"as for RIM, yeah I still keep laughing at dumb Mick who predicted RIM's sale before the end of 2012, now a year has passed, Mick's dumb predictions of course did not happen, so what now? tell me the story about you being RIM CEO and knowing that they did sold out and blah blah, shit like that. of course you armchair back CEOs know it all, like I said I know your first name is actually thorsten not retro lol :) how does it feel when they kicked you out buddy? you're not governing RIM anymore, question is will you stop pretending to be RIM CEO? I bet you won't! right? heheee"

LMAO!!! you are as hilarious as ever. Thanks for that... But coming back down to Earth, don't pretend you weren't 100% wrong the whole time. You sat there insisting that BB was a as good as IOS and Android all through 2011 and 2012 and insisted that BB10 would save the company, even in late 2012 when it was delayed until Q1 2013 you were insisting it would save the company when everyone in the world saw what was coming. You couldn't have been more wrong... FINALLY in Q1 2013 when BB10 released you changed your tune. Years past the rest of the planet. Sorry, you are myopic as hell when it comes to this stuff. Again, MS isnt going anywhere, they are not only firmly entrenched in enterprise, but they have no competitors at all that can replace them, not even close, no one has even started planning to try and bump them off.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 2:33:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
MS has NO competitor taking over on these main enterprise areas
Remember the time when RIM also had no competitors taking over on other areas like corporate mobile IT? History does not teach you any lessons, it seems.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 2:43:22 PM , Rating: 2
Dood, you are missing hte most important thing.

RIMM - had a near monopoly on enterprise MOBILE EMAIL ONLY

MS - has a near monopoly on Enterprise servers, Server software, enterprise email, enterprise software, desktop OS, etc.

IF RIMM at its peak diseapeared, nothing happens, people would get other mobile email solutions. IF MS goes away, the world grinds to a halt.

The two arent even remotely similar. RIMM monopoly was on a tiny piece only relating to the conveniance of enterprise mobile email. MS IS ENTERPRISE FFS!


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 2:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, if retro is myopic, you are illegally blind.
quote:
you forgot that enterprise world was running blackberry 100% until it got kicked out by Apple and Google, exact same thing is happening now with MS - legacy PCs are slowly being replaced by cheaper alternatives like tablets

Microsoft Windows.

Microsoft Office.

Both software packages are used extensively in the business world, an entire market segment that is simply not as sensitive to price as the consumer market. Where you're so cheap and pi$$-poor you wouldn't pay more than a dollar per GB of SSD storage, a business has no problems paying 10X or even 100X that amount for non-price metrics.
quote:
if you didn't notice, the consumer markets are the sign of the future

If you didn't notice, the business markets have very different requirements than those of consumer markets. Most of us care about the almighty dollar sign. They (mostly) don't care.
quote:
enterprise ALWAYS follows consumer markets

They do, but they lag by at least 12 months, and that's just for the utmost bleeding edge early adopters. The rest of the business world doesn't mind working with less current tech because the main focus was never on price to begin with.
quote:
MS has NOTHING to counter Apple and Google mobile domination

Patent royalties.

Almost every major Android phonemaker pays some amount of money per device to Microsoft - the alternative is getting sued in court. One of the biggest income earners resulting from the rising mobile dominance by Android, ironically, has nothing to do with Android at all. Funny how that works out.
quote:
as for RIM, yeah I still keep laughing at dumb Mick who predicted RIM's sale before the end of 2012, now a year has passed, Mick's dumb predictions of course did not happen, so what now?

I laughed at all the fools - you included - who championed RIM/BB as the savior of smartphones, how they will automagically climb out of the hole they dug with their own hands, how it's going to win the game. When I shopped for a smartphone in 2011, BB was never one of my choices.

The company had no foresight after the OG iPhone was released. They had an existential threat imposed upon them by a new competitor, yet they acted as if nothing happened. Sign of desperation = buyout of QNX. We might still mention BB occasionally if Waterloo worked their butts off and actually delivered new products on time.

They didn't, and now we have Version 2.0 of Nortel Networks, where the only valuable piece of property it owns is its IP and patent holdings.

Epic fail.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 3:54:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They (mostly) don't care
Oh really? In this economy they don't care about survival? They agree to pay as much as OEM asks? Then why do I hear all the time about gazillions of ancient WinXP and Win98 systems everywhere in enterprises huh? You are saying they don't care about price but if that's the case, why enterprises are mostly a huge grave of the old tech that no consumers even use now?

You're trying to present corporations as some idiots who are some aliens, not like normal people at all, who are not into saving money and maximizing efficiency. You think corporations are by definition some dumb wasters of money for no purpose? Hahaha you're a funny one, I thought you are smarter, but now I'm not sure, sorry ;)


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:45:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Then why do I hear all the time about gazillions of ancient WinXP and Win98 systems everywhere in enterprises huh?

The business world doesn't care about price. Those "ancient" OSes do lots of useful work e.g. ATMs at your local bank. Meanwhile, the iOS stuff you parade as the latest and greatest in business tech just isn't all that good.

What you call "affordable" and "cheap" have all sorts of negative connotations the moment you leave the consumer and retail markets. Reliability and dependability are far more important than the dollar sign. We don't need a wakeup call. You do.

IBM ditched all its consumer-facing divisions because there is so much more money to be made selling solutions and services to large businesses.
quote:
Hahaha you're a funny one, I thought you are smarter, but now I'm not sure, sorry

Coked-out lab rats have more intelligence than you.

Pathetic human refuse. You don't know when to cut your losses and shut the hell up. Here, want a cyanide-laced ball gag?


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 5:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
so much more money to be made selling solutions and services to large businesses
Why then Apple makes way way more money than IBM by selling iOS devices? Don't munch on that gag, idiot! Answer first please :)))


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 5:21:16 PM , Rating: 1
The total BOM of an iPhone 4S in 2011 is $200. Apple sells that for $650 (16GB) unlocked. I'd freely wager that the latest iPhones and iPads don't cost more than $300 per unit. Whose company can get away with a ridiculous 50%+ gross profit margin? Apple.

And yet it managed to stop beating its own financial results QoQ.

Anything else to add, retard rickshaw?


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 5:35:45 PM , Rating: 1
hey idiot, you can't even weasel out my question properly, you still can't answer why Apple makes so much money by selling iOS compared to peanuts that IBM makes selling those stupid ugly mainframes, and why your oh so significant enterprise market is a fucking peanuts compared to iOS device and services revenue. good luck ignoring my questions, if you stopped weaseling your way out of them, it means you have nothing to say, ya lame ass :)


By greenchinesepuck on 11/20/2013 1:39:19 PM , Rating: 2
The total BOM of a Galaxy S4 in 2013 is $300. Samsung sells that for $600 unlocked. I'd freely wager that the latest Galaxies don't cost more than $300 per unit. Whose company can get away with a ridiculous 50%+ gross profit margin? Samsung.

after reading this passage about Samsung it's obvious that ritualm is a braindead idiot. case closed :)


By retrospooty on 11/20/2013 3:12:36 PM , Rating: 1
"after reading this passage about Samsung it's obvious that ritualm is a braindead idiot. case closed :)
"


I'd take him over you in any mental acuity test any day.

LONG LIVE RIMM! MS IS DOOMED.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 2:05:16 PM , Rating: 2
Oh Pirks...
quote:
fearmongering against all things MS

Yeah, because MS makes most of its money via selling Windows OS licenses... not.
quote:
When PC sales decline enough (and they will, do you understand this part? or you think sales of PCs automagically rebound and will grow again?) MS has nowhere to go.

The business world still requires PCs running Windows and Office. That's two of the biggest revenue generators at Redmond, far greater than its consumer products division.
quote:
The other much more important parts of the market which are all mobile are now taken by Google and Apple, MS tried to kick them out for many years and always failed miserably, they can't do it, it's obvious now.

Android phonemakers pay to MS patent royalties per device produced. That amount is not insignificant. Merely a few weeks ago, DT wrote how Samsung's smartphone/tablet profits might shrink because of those royalty payments, on top of market saturation issues...
quote:
So all of this stuff (decline of Windows PC and absence of other significant sources of revenue besides Windows PC for Microsoft) has been explained many times by Tony.

He didn't explain jack. All he did was use various talking points from biased sources i.e. techpinions to somehow claim why the sky's falling at MS, while pretending the glass ceiling above Cupertino didn't exist.
quote:
I wish he was trolling.

He rick-rolled you so hard, you're asking for sloppy seconds.
quote:
I wish MS had another source of income just as huge as Windows.

How clever of you to totally ignore its xbox console division.
quote:
I wish PC sales grew all the time, forever.

Do you honestly believe that? You're about as rational as a doomsday prophet.
quote:
You just do not realize that the world has changed, but Tony did. Now I do too. Join us or fade away with MS. You have no other choice.

The world has changed, alright, but the power players haven't really changed. The world does not revolve around 1 Infinite Loop, Pirks.

Epic fail.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 2:30:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
ignore its xbox console division
Ah the one that makes almost no profit? And shows losses once in a while? Now why would I not ignore such a zero-profitability thing, you tell me


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 2:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
Because you're a sorry excuse of a deliberate partisan hack, pretending to be smarter than the rest of DT, when the reality is the complete opposite of your spin machine of fail.

Good job being a postdictor of current events! trollololol


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 2:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
LOL...

Pirks 2012: RIMM wont fail.
Pirks 2013: MS will fail.

I cant even begin to explain the hilarity of that. What a clown. I could see if there were a single viable alternative to MS in enterprise. There just isnt. LIke I said, its not that no other company couldn't get there given time, they could... It's that no other company has even started. No other company is attempting to take that crown from MS, and if no-one tries , no one will succeed.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 3:37:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's that no other company has even started
iPads are being adopted by enterprises everywhere right now, just read the news, iPhone is pretty much adopted already as a new business phone standard. If you don't see any MS-killing trends here - you need serious reality check


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
Water is wet. News at 11.

Got anything else to say, Pirks? The train of winners is departing and you're still trying to get past the ticket gates with your loser iOS devices.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 4:33:47 PM , Rating: 2
hahaha RT is such a winner, especially with its $900 million loss 'cause no one was buying it hahaha, gee man good luck on that train of yours, keep watching your losses while you're on it, it could get addictive! hahaha lol


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:50:30 PM , Rating: 2
iOS is in decline. You just don't realize it already happened.

Myopic dumbwit.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 5:07:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
iOS is in decline
ya sure, and RT is winning, pass the pipe bro :))) lol


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 4:53:49 PM , Rating: 2
BTW, Pirks, YOU were the one preaching up Surface for the past year. Another in a long line of bad calls.

Pirks 2012: RIMM will succeed.
Pirks 1H 2013: Surface will be a huge hit
Pirks 2H 2013: MS will fail.

I dont know which of those 3 is the funniest. Each on its own is funny, but collectively they paint a hilarious picture...

Or maybe the part that conflicts with itself is funniest. Surface will be a huge hit and MS will fail. I cant even tell. Hahaha. OMG. My stomach hurts.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 4:50:15 PM , Rating: 2
"iPads are being adopted by enterprises everywhere right now, just read the news, iPhone is pretty much adopted already as a new business phone standard"

Again, mobile connectivity is is a tiny part of it. iPads and iPhones are not taking over hte enterprise market in any way. There are no iPad servers, there are no iPad exchange servers, there are no iPad planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc... It all runs on PC's.

Pirks, mobile mail and connectivity is like 1% of the enterprise market, if that. It's nothing... And even those that do use iPads while mobile still come back to the office with their laptop or desktop to get the real work done.

You cant possibly not know what I am talking about here. I repeat, no other company has even started to do what MS does.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 6:31:02 AM , Rating: 2
BYOD is for mobile. They still buy and supply a PC do do all the real work on. The entire enterprise sector still runs on PC's , including every step of the process in every factory that makes every iDevice. Please, get real.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 7:33:01 AM , Rating: 2
You are probably under the delusion that the ATM machines are running iPad, or the payroll system that pays your salary, or the traffic control system, or whatever other systems currently run this society. Compare to the pervasiveness of Windows, iPad is a new kid on the block. And it is not even a big kid, Android has been outselling iPad and will soon leave it far behind.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By troysavary on 11/19/2013 9:17:34 AM , Rating: 1
Chances are that ATM is running BSD or QNX rather than Windows, but other than that, your argument is valid.


By Just Tom on 11/19/2013 10:10:08 AM , Rating: 2
RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 1:41:01 AM , Rating: 1
As far as ratio of revenue vs cost goes, MS has better ratio than Apple. And if you look at the number of licenses MS sold last year vs number of devices Apple sold last year, MS won hand down. What this means is just that MS is charging a lot less money for profit per unit compared to Apple. Apparently Apple has been able to consistently get hundred of millions of people regularly re-purchase their incrementally improved, high profit margin devices, year after year. Why these people feel the need to regularly donate to Apple I will never understand. A lot of them must be owning multiple iPhones or iPads, all doing the same thing like making phone calls and watching videos.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 3:06:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
if you look at the number of licenses MS sold last year vs number of devices Apple sold last year, MS won hand down
Apple sells more devices every quarter. MS sells fewer Windows licenses every quarter. Do you see any worrisome trend here for MS? Tony was the first to notice it, now I see it too.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By w8gaming on 11/19/2013 7:42:53 AM , Rating: 2
Apple has sold less than 100 million iPad in 2013. There are more than 300 millions PCs shipped in the same period. No grave, imminent threat there.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 8:08:38 AM , Rating: 2
Yup... If hypothetically, a single company were to close its doors and disable all of their products like Apple, Oracle, Google, Sun micro, UNIX, any Linux house, SAP, or any the number of other companies. If one of them we're too close their doors and suddenly deactivated all products, life will go on on... Some companies that rely on them would stumble and have to figure out another solution, and some would lose money for it. Some might even go out of business... But if MS were to close up and all products deactivated, the entire world's economy would come to a grinding halt. It would literally be the end of the world as we know it. No other company can say that. Anyone that doesn't realize that is delusional.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By TEAMSWITCHER on 11/19/2013 9:35:08 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe your world would end, but I would keep using OS X and go on with my life. I already use OS X for all of my Web and mobile development - I have to, the Mac is the only platform for iOS development. In fact, if Microsoft went away, my life would get simpler because I would no longer need to run virtual machines to build an ActiveX controls or support Microsoft's bug-ridden web browser. My iPhone and iPad would still be working fine like they always have and my PlayStation and Wii U would still be there to play all of my favorite games. Anyone who thinks that Microsoft is somehow indispensable to the world's economy has lost their freaking mind - not only is Microsoft expendable, people like me wouldn't even be bothered by it.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By datdamonfoo on 11/19/2013 10:06:23 AM , Rating: 2
So your argument that the world would be fine without Microsoft is because we could still play video games?

Seriously?

I think you have no idea how ingrained MS systems are at huge businesses, and how many Windows-specific programs there are, the loss of which would mean million dollar machinery would simply stop working.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 10:50:18 AM , Rating: 2
That and even you are totally underselling it. All of the businesses that make all of the parts for every Apple product would totally halt. Apple factories would halt as would pretty much every other business outside of farming. The world as we know it would literally end even for Mac/IOS users that never touch Windows, we would all be in the same starvation boat.


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By TEAMSWITCHER on 11/19/2013 11:17:20 AM , Rating: 2
I also mentioned web and mobile development, and my smart phone, and my tablet. But go ahead and make your argument around only one thing that I stated. It doesn't change the fact that I would still have a digital existence "After Microsoft."

I develop software for a living, I fully understand how "ingrained" Microsoft is at huge businesses. And yes, they would suffer from Microsoft's rapture. But that's also EXACTLY that kind of thinking that created Windows 8 in the first place. For years, Microsoft knew full well they could produce crap and companies like ACER, ASUS, HP, Dell, and Sony would buy it because they simply had no other choice.

And where did it get them? Today, they are all on the outside - looking in - at the next revolution in computing. Only three companies - Google, Samsung, and Apple are sucking up the profits in the mobile era. Heck...The iPhone business alone has more revenue than ALL of Microsoft - OS, Office, Servers, Xbox...everything.



By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 11:37:33 AM , Rating: 2
" It doesn't change the fact that I would still have a digital existence "After Microsoft."

No you wouldnt, no one would. You wouldn't have electricity, or food, FFS. Everything runs off MS, there would be no shipping to get food to your grocery store... Which wouldnt matter anyhow because you wouldn't have any money to buy food if it were there, because the businesses you support with your Mac wouldn't have money to pay you. Get it?

Remember, the hypothetical situation is that MS closes shop and all of its products are instantly disabled. The world as we know it is over. To be clear, it's not that MS couldn't be replaced and/or phased out by a competitor if one were to arise, its that no-one is rising. No one is even close. No one has even started. Zero.


By retrospooty on 11/19/2013 10:41:04 AM , Rating: 2
"Maybe your world would end, but I would keep using OS X and go on with my life. I already use OS X for all of my Web and mobile development "

You arent getting it, the business world would stop. Apple cosulnt build any MAc, or iPhones or iPAds, commerce would stop, the internet would stop and all of our jobs would stop. Everything would stop abnd we would be in a massive worldwide depression that would make the 1920's look like the 1990's.

Silly little clueless Apple fan. LOL


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 2:56:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone who thinks that Microsoft is somehow indispensable to the world's economy has lost their freaking mind

The business world by and large runs on Microsoft software - they are the ones who wound up producing the very stuff you use daily.

The consumer world is irrelevant. You don't produce anything of value. Web and mobile development LOL.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 4:04:15 PM , Rating: 1
More and more businesses move to web and mobile everyday, iPads and iPhones grew HUGELY in past years as pure business tools. I already lost the count of how many times I've seen sales assosiates with iPhones and iPads with various attachments like mobile points of sale or mobile CC readers and shit like that. Of which by the way NOTHING MAJOR exists for Windows Phones or Windows RT tablets, 'cause no one buys them lol :))) I have a buddy who has his own small PC consulting/repair business for small businesses, he switched to iOS a long ago because NOTHING rivals its mobile point of sale software solutions, even Android can't match them. It's like everyone uses iOS right now for business, web too of course.

You with your lame dinosaur desktop PCs with ancient Windows XP and Office are so far behind the times you can't even imagine.

Keep posting your delusion about MS being relevant while I'm buying some stuff in restaurant or coffee shop or electronics store and being services by iOS with some mobile attachment :P hahaha lol


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:26:02 PM , Rating: 2
What do you think runs the backend servers? iOS or Windows? The front-end can be a dumb Diebold voting machine, designed and programmed by high school dropouts, and nobody would care. The backend is where most of the processing and communications take place.

Those things don't use iOS.

It's like the hate on mainframes. They're ugly, not very powerful, and not very user-friendly. Yet they form the primary backend for the New York Stock Exchange because mainframes offer things that you can't get with anything else.

Congrats, you prefer form over function. You are an idiot.

Epic fail.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 4:37:43 PM , Rating: 2
So how much IBM makes from selling mainframes versus how much Apple makes form selling iOS devices? Afraid of looking the truth in the eye now huh? ;) C'mon stop being such a coward, it's such a shame, loser :P


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 4:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
You've already lost all credibility with your fancy schmancy jive talk, kid.

Pot, meet kettle.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 5:10:06 PM , Rating: 2
nice way to weasel out of tough question, answering it would debunk your lies, let's see how you weasel out of my other question about IBM and Apple above :)))


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 5:25:48 PM , Rating: 2
You behave exactly like Tony Swash and Wazza1234: you try to move goalposts whenever you can't argue your way on the internets.

Anything else to add, retard rickshaw? Go give Tony a blowjob right now. I'm sure he'd appreciate your patronage.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 5:39:19 PM , Rating: 2
come back when you learn how to answer questions instead of weaseling out, ignoring them, and behaving like an illiterate dork


RE: For me as a long long time windows user...
By ritualm on 11/19/2013 8:12:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
come back when you learn how to answer questions instead of weaseling out, ignoring them, and behaving like an illiterate dork

Says the guy who can't answer questions instead of weaseling out, ignoring them, and behaving like an illiterate dork.

Anything else to add, hillbilly retard rickshaw? Rob Ford can be totally wasted on crack cocaine and still manage a forceful argument, unlike everything you posted.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/20/2013 3:05:04 AM , Rating: 2
Since you are too dumb to understand why enterprise market is small peanut compared to consumer market, I don't see any point in explaining you the details. If you don't know even basics, how possibly can you know finer details? Your drivel about IBM and Apple above is another proof of that.


By retrospooty on 11/20/2013 7:18:18 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously Pirks, I would love get a list of future predictions about current tech companies. I will use this info to change my stock portfolio to invest heavily in companies that you say wont make it and divest completely in those you say that will make it big. In short, I would use your brain to do the exact opposite of what you say and I would make a fortune. You are 100% wrong every single time. Its actually quite the gift you have.


By w8gaming on 11/21/2013 6:43:40 AM , Rating: 2
I am quite aware of there are "some" business trying to migrate the software to iPads, but they are minority at the moment. Sure, there are "some" point of sales software running on iPad now, but there are even more POS software still running on Windows. Open up an ATM machine, and you see Windows PC sitting in it. Security control software, mostly run on Windows. Car tuning software used by workshop? Windows. Assembly line? Windows. Accounting? Mostly Windows. It is a FACT that iPad does not dominate computing as most Apple fans seem to think. They are catching up I grant you that, but they have A LONG WAY to go. Meanwhile, the Apple fans keep thinking iOS have won and other platforms are not irrelevant. All I can say is we shall see. It might very well turns out that this post PC era is simply the post Steve Jobs Apple fans delusional era when we look back in a few years time.


By greenchinesepuck on 11/19/2013 1:43:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No grave, imminent threat there.
That's exactly what Ballmer and his RIM buddies Lazaridis and Balsillie were thinking about iPhone just a few years ago :P hahaha lol the irony eh?


By w8gaming on 11/21/2013 6:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
The same thing can be said to most Apple fans opinion regarding Android.


"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki