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Let the truth be known about the 65nm PlayStation 3

While neither Microsoft nor Sony has been upfront about the process technology used in their consoles, enthusiasts have had little trouble identifying the different hardware revisions of the Xbox 360. On the other hand, the 40GB PlayStation 3 has everyone guessing just whether or not it uses 65nm technology, with some saying “yes” and others saying “no.” As it turns out, both sides are partially correct.

According to an AV Watch interview with Kazuo Hirai, president of SCEI, the Cell Broadband Engine used in the latest PlayStation 3 production is indeed from a 65nm process. This fully explains the reduced power consumption numbers posted by the new 40GB PS3. The 40GB PS3 now consumes around 100 Watts less during maximum load when compared 90nm Cell/B.E. consoles.

While the PS3’s CPU made the jump to the 65nm process, the GPU is unchanged. Hirai said that the RSX chip is still at the 90nm process, but did not indicate if the GPU would be moved to the 65nm.

As reported by owners of the 40GB PlayStation 3, the newest hardware is the quietest yet. The new PS3 supposedly outputs a noise level of 30 dB, about 6 dB less than the previous model. This improvement is will be greatly appreciated by home theatre enthusiasts using the PlayStation 3 as a Blu-ray Disc player.

At the expense of having a more power efficient and quieter machine, the latest PS3 hardware gives up all PS2 backwards compatibility and the ability to play Super Audio CDs (SACD).

Hirai also revealed that the attributes of the 40GB SKU will soon apply to the entire line family of PlayStation 3 consoles, as the 20GB and 60GB models – the ones with full backwards compatibility –- are no longer in production for any market in the world.


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What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By mles1551 on 11/9/2007 1:02:42 PM , Rating: 4
I keep reading all these posts about how important BC is, but I don't understand. At first, sure if you weren't an FPS fan then there really wasn't a decent game out. But once this holiday season is up that really isn't a viable argument no matter what genre you are a fan of.

Let's hear some PS2 games you're still playing, I need to see a list of the games that I'm going to go back and play.

I still throw Mike Tyson's Punchout in the NES occasionally, but I don't gripe about the Wii lacking BC, I just use my NES.
Is there a law that says you must discard your old console when you buy the next generation?
I've got everything from my Atari2600 to my launch day PS2 and they all work just fine.

I need to hear some valid arguments why BC has any bearing at all on your decision to buy (or keep) a PS3.




RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Martimus on 11/9/2007 1:12:21 PM , Rating: 1
I wouldn't buy a PS3 if it didn't have backward compatibility to my PS2 games. Heck, I never owned a PS1 and I bought a few PS1 games to play on my PS2. I don't want to go through the trouble to hook up the old system when I get an inkling to play an old game, I just want to put it in and play it. I am also not going to go out and buy a PS3 while they still have backward compatibility, because there is nothing that I want to play on the new system, and BD hasn't won the format war, and who knows if it ever will. It just isn't worth it to me, but it will never be worth it if it doesn't keep backward compatibility.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Alexstarfire on 11/9/2007 1:19:40 PM , Rating: 2
You're kind of missing the point though. Do you want to have to go buy another console and hook it up to your TV? Not sure about you, but I'm already out of connections for my TV, and it's got 3 input components. I've got one for our satellite TV, 1 for DVD, 1 for Wii, and I'm even using the coaxial cable input for my N64. You can only piggyback on that cable input for so long before you loose quality, or in my case get static.

I'm not saying EVERYTHING should be backwards compatible, but you should at least be able to be backwards compatible for one generation. Like, the PS2 can play PS1 games, the Wii can play gamecube games, the DS can play all gameboy games, etc.. If a console truly is more powerful than the last one I don't see why it's so difficult to get it to do backwards compatibility. Obviously it may not be possible with different media, as from the N64 to the gamecube shows, but the PS3 can read DVDs and CDs if I'm not mistaken.

Consoles also don't last forever. If you're PS2 dies but you have a PS3, do you really want to go back and buy another PS2? That's the concept that I see. Why go buy an older console just to play older games when you have a new, more powerful console. That console should be able to play the old "inferior" games just fine.

The way I see it, dropping backwards compatibility just drives the demand for more PS2s. I think Sony is banking on the PS2 until they can reduce the cost of the PS3 enough.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By deeznuts on 11/9/2007 1:31:55 PM , Rating: 2
You really should be hooking up a PS3 through HDMI though, which most previous components shouldn't have or don't have. Only through HDMI will you get 1080p on upscaled dvds (component is fine for gaming and blu-ray).

There problem solved ;)

I don't see a problem with people wanting BC on their PS3. Hell I've never owned a PS1 or PS2. God of War is one of the best games I've ever played! GOWII as well. I also don't have a problem with Sony removing BC on their value line.

If you want the BC, cough up for the 80GB. If that's still too expensive, oh well, save up, or don't. No use whining about it on the net.


By Alexstarfire on 11/9/2007 4:45:51 PM , Rating: 2
You're right on that one, but I don't have an HDTV and I don't plan on getting one for many years.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By dmark07 on 11/9/2007 1:24:52 PM , Rating: 5
The main reason why I think BC for the PS3 is such a big deal is the fact that the PS3 with the recent firmware upgrades actually makes games look better. When I hook up a PS2 to an HDTV and play Final Fantasy or God of War, the lack of anitaliasing and upscaling is very apparent but when the same game is played on the PS3 with upscaling turned on and the smoothing option enabled, then everything looks much much better.


By BansheeX on 11/9/2007 8:17:35 PM , Rating: 2
I agree and that's why I think Sony should continue offering a version with PS2 hardware for a premium. I'm willing to pay for the added hardware. So far, they're doing exactly that and giving me the choice.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Etsp on 11/9/2007 1:37:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I still throw Mike Tyson's Punchout in the NES occasionally, but I don't gripe about the Wii lacking BC, I just use my NES.
Ironically, the wii has this particular game featured on it's virtual console, under "Punch-Out!! Featuring Mr. Dream" which is the same game, with Mike Tyson replaced by Mr. Dream.

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=LexvY4synd...

So you really couldn't gripe about the wii lacking BC, because in this case, it does have it. Just it costs $5.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By SirLucius on 11/9/2007 2:15:41 PM , Rating: 3
It's convenient to have old NES/SNES games on the Wii, and I have a few myself, but it's hard to consider the Virtual Console a form of backwards compatibility. Paying for an old game isn't BC. That's just you paying for an old game again.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Locutus465 on 11/9/2007 2:34:31 PM , Rating: 1
I think the important part is that you can play the old games on the system... Perhaps it's not "true" BC, but as far as the customer is concerned given the low cost per game, it may as well be BC... Perhaps if Sony re-releases PS2 games in a PS3 compatible format at a significantly reduced price? Of course that simply isn't a realistic option, the only realistic option is to have PS2 BC in place.... Nintendo still beats Sony there, because the Wii *can* play every old GC game... ::waits for stupid "Wii is an overclocked game cube remarks::


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By SirLucius on 11/9/2007 2:42:40 PM , Rating: 3
Well in that case all PS3's do have a form of BC since you can download old PS1 games for use on the PS3 or PSP. But again, I don't consider any form of me paying for a game backwards compatibility. I still own several of the games offered over the PSN and VC. Why would I pay for them again?

And the PS3 does have BC. You simply have to pay for it. Makes sense to me. It seems like every other time the consumer is offered choice, DT readers are overjoyed. When Sony does it they get flamed.

As for the Wii being an overclocked Gamecube, well, it is. :) Nintendo focused more on gameplay than graphics and they've been greatly rewarded for doing so.


By clovell on 11/9/2007 3:24:58 PM , Rating: 1
Don't forget that some of these games that cost $5 on the Wii's VC will run you at least 4 times as much for the cartridge.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Locutus465 on 11/9/2007 4:06:07 PM , Rating: 2
But they're forgetting the most important generation, the last generation which is covered completly by nintendo, and rather spottedly (though at least to some extent) by microsoft. Sony would have been better off dumping support for the PS1 and keeping PS2, but obviously that wouldn't have bought them as much in terms of making the console cheaper to produce.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By SirLucius on 11/9/2007 4:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
That's true that the Wii supports the last generation of games. My only point was that it's hard to consider the VC a form of backwards compatibility, just like I don't consider the PS1 games offered in the Playstation store to be a form of backwards compatibility. Even if you're paying a discounted price, the fact is that you're still paying for old games, some of which you may already own in cartridge form.

And the last generation is covered by Sony too...in the higher end systems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 360's without a HD don't support any form of backwards compatibility either, right? I'm pretty sure that the old 360 games required a HD. Now you can upgrade those at a later time, but that's still money into the console, and Microsoft's HD upgrades aren't cheap.

Sony is offering a choice to consumers. You can pay less and get a stripped down model that only plays PS3 games or you can pay more for a PS3/PS2/PS1. With the latest PS2 price cuts, it costs the same for a 40GB PS3 and a slim PS2 as it does to get one of the upper tier PS3's.


By Locutus465 on 11/10/2007 1:43:37 PM , Rating: 2
BC on the 360 requires some sort of perminent storage, I'm pretty sure flash cards will do in a pinch (though I have a premium so I can't say for sure). Though again, I never have and never will say that the 360 has "excellent" BC, though at least it has *some* BC for the most popular titles which is better than what you can say for the low end PS3. At anyrate, the only reason I have a 360 is for Halo and Gears, other than that I'd still be playing an original x-box (expense!).


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Locutus465 on 11/9/2007 2:30:16 PM , Rating: 3
For someone like me who might be considering picking up a PS3 for the very first time, it might be nice to be able to play the original games in a series (such as God of War) with out having to pay extra for a PS2 (not to mention have the extra hardware sitting around).


By mmntech on 11/9/2007 2:52:23 PM , Rating: 3
I agree with that 100%. I'm one of the PS3 owners who never owned a PS2. It's nice to have an all-in-one system. Especially with the lack of quality titles for the PS3 right now, and the fact that most PS2 titles are a lot cheaper.
Just a comment on the SACD playback removal for the 40gb. Is that really a big deal? Maybe it's just where I shop but I don't think I've ever really seen them advertised for sale. I wouldn't want them either since they have the most restrictive DRM of any audio format. I think I'd rather stick with vinyl or DVD for my high fidelity audio.

Back on topic. Is it just me or does Sony's right hand not know what it's left hand is doing. This isn't the first time SCE has done this. I remember back in July that Sony said that they weren't redesigning the PSP, then a week later they announced the Slim & Light. Around the same time, Sony announced they weren't going to cut the price of the 60gb PS3, then announced they were cutting it by $100 a few days later. I also seem to remember that Sony once said they weren't going to discontinue the 60gb PS3. I think there's definitely some communications problems at Sony HQ. Obviously somebody send out the memo about the 65nm processors.


By MrTeal on 11/9/2007 7:38:15 PM , Rating: 3
While it is nice, it's hardly standard. I never heard anyone clamoring for NES BC when Zelda 3 or Ocarina of Time came out.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By MrFluffo on 11/9/2007 3:22:08 PM , Rating: 1
Silent Hill 1-4
Resident Evil 1-4 + Code Veronica X
FFVII - FFXII minus FFXI
FF Tactics
Gran Turismo
ANY JAPANSE RPG
Metal Gear solid 1-3
(sorry for all the GREAT GAMES i missed)
Also I do not want my PS1 and 2 to be hooked up nor do I want to swap it out when i want to play. Of course all my old systems work but it is a pain when i have to get all the wires together and hook them up then when im done i have to clean up. Dont forget that it is not limited to just PS2 the BC also includes PS1. This way when i want to go back and play Shadow of the Colossus i dont have to switch everything for just one game. Its all about convenience.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By Timeless on 11/9/2007 4:41:11 PM , Rating: 2
You wouldn't have 3 consoles hooked up though. Probably at most it would be a PS2 and PS3 hooked up to your TV. Both the PS2 and PS3 are backwards compatible with PS1 games. And that's if you bought the 40GB PS3. If you bought the 80GB, then there really is much of a problem anymore.


By Timeless on 11/9/2007 4:45:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you bought the 80GB, then there really is much of a problem anymore.


Meant to say "there really isn't much of a problem anymore."


By Zoomer on 11/10/2007 6:29:14 PM , Rating: 2
Seconded. But I could live with FF9, not so sure about X-2 though-I never got 100% completion.


RE: What's the lasting appeal of the PS2?
By mles1551 on 11/9/2007 7:31:44 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, This is the first string of comments about a console article I've read on DT that hasn't turned into a fanboy competition.

I am surprised that some of the people here have never owned a PS2, but now have a PS3. In that regard, yes BC would be important for those that want to enjoy GOW or some of the FF series.

To comment on the multiple console argument.I posted that I pop in Tyson's Punchout from time to time. That doesn't mean I have my NES hooked up all the time. And honestly how hard is to get the (insert console here) out of the closet and plug in 2 wires so you and your buddies can enjoy some Pole Position, Super Mario 3, or some Madden 94.


By leexgx on 11/10/2007 6:24:31 AM , Rating: 2
not important to me but my brother has PS2 games (think his PS2 has broke now{abused heh}) and it be nice if BC was left in the 40gb model as it uses less power as well and is quieter (even thought its quite any way compared to the Xbox 360 Turbo cooling)

i going to be getting an PS3 with BC but be nice if thay bring out an PS3 that runs on 65mn with BC as well

the PS3 going to replace 3 devices any ways (the DVD player and the PS2, and an media PC)


By nikon133 on 11/11/2007 6:20:44 PM , Rating: 2
Well... we've got our PS2 very late - last Christmas, that is; me and my wife decided we're missing some (virtual) fighting we had with PS1 10 or more years ago - Tekken and likes.

We were initially planning to get just a few games for PS2, but having such a choice in Platinum range (equivalent 20 or less US$ here in NZ) we caught collector's bug and ended up with 40+ titles in 10 months - still growing.

Now... we also have couple of game capable PCs in the house, but beside fighting games (some of which don't exist on PC while others are simply more fun to play on PS2 - latter on that), we found out we were missing good platformers, so we ended up with all Jak & Daxter and Rachet & Clank titles (6 of them plus 2 non-platforming). We added to that all 3 Prince of Persia titles, Sly... some others.

Then we moved to driving with GT3, GT4, TT, last 2 NFS, couple of Burnouts etc etc...

While some of the mentioned games do exist for PC - and usually look better - we did found out that very often playing on PS2 in the living room and in front of TV is definitely more sociable and cosier experience than playing on my PC, in my "computer-room" away from rest of the world. Even my wife who gave up on playing video games maybe 5 years ago will grab a controller and pop in game's DVD without me around.

PC is still in use for FPS, strategies and other heavy stuff (like Oblivion).

It looks like we play 24/7 - but we don't, and as result we finished only 2 PS2 games so far, 3 more being in process... so back to the topic - I'd like BC simply because I don't see us finishing all of them (and ones that will come) while this PS2 lasts; we might be able to get another (used) one after, but since we are planning to get PS3 probably Christmas 2008, I'd prefer if it can carry on with PS2 games rather than having 2 separate consoles (same applies to my gaming PC, after all). I think that even in 5 years some of PS2 games will have value - however visually simple they might look by them - at least for our kid(s), so one way or another I don't want to end up without a way to play them - in the next 10 years at least.


"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson

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