Print 49 comment(s) - last by GaryJohnson.. on Oct 9 at 5:39 PM

Microsoft's new holiday bundles  (Source: Kotaku)
Microsoft to include Forza Motorsport 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance with the Xbox 360 Premium, Elite

Microsoft today confirmed what has been rumored on the Internet for a few weeks with regards to its Xbox 360 console. The Redmond giant will include Forza Motorsport 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance with its Xbox 360 Premium and Xbox 360 Elite consoles.

News of the two bundled games first leaked to the web via Best Buy's online website -- the store later took the product pages down (likely after being contacted by Microsoft).

Bundled games are nothing new and retailers often bundle free games with new consoles during special promotions. When the Xbox 360 price cuts went into effect over the summer, Circuit City offered Rockstar Table Tennis for free with the Xbox 360 Premium.

This move, however, marks the first time that Microsoft itself has officially included two high profile games with its console.

The holiday season should prove to be quite fulfilling for potential Xbox 360 customers. Microsoft has already rolled out HDMI ports on the current crop of Xbox 360 Premium, Xbox 360 Elite and Xbox 360 Halo 3 Special Edition consoles.

In addition, cooler-running 65 nanometer Falcon CPUs are starting to show up in Halo 3 Special Edition consoles and will likely rollover to the rest of the Xbox 360 range shortly.

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Pretty good value
By h0kiez on 10/8/2007 11:00:47 AM , Rating: 5
For those waiting to get in on a 360, now is a great time. New Falcon chipsets, a modest price drop, 2 pack in titles, and several stellar game releases lately make me think they're going to move a lot of these in the 4th quarter.

RE: Pretty good value
By wannabemedontu on 10/8/2007 11:02:25 AM , Rating: 2
Throw in an extra controller and i'll bite.

RE: Pretty good value
By FITCamaro on 10/8/2007 11:13:16 AM , Rating: 4
What are you joking? The two games alone are worth $120 new. On the Premium you're already getting the console, wireless controller, ethernet cable, 20GB hard drive, HD component cables, headset, and 2 two games now. Pretty damn good deal for $350. Way better of a value than the $599 80GB PS3 thats just a console, wireless controller, standard cables, ethernet cable, usb cable, and Motostorm. Yes when the 40GB PS3 makes its appearance it'll be a pretty good value as well but doesn't come with titles packed in or HD cables. With this you pay $350+tax and you're gaming. With the 40GB PS3 you're still talking $460+tax.

RE: Pretty good value
By CRimer76 on 10/8/2007 11:38:20 AM , Rating: 2
Well if you add XBox Live to get online and a wireless adapter then they come out to about even.

I know I'll be picking one of these 360's up at some point this holiday season, but I wish I could swap out Forza with something else.

But I'm not one to complain with free crap.

RE: Pretty good value
By solgae1784 on 10/8/2007 11:53:15 AM , Rating: 3
You can always wait for deals in xbox live 13-month cards (I found as low as roughly $30), and you can just get a cheap router that allows AP client ability instead of that expensive official crap MS sells.

I agree with you. Who would complain about two free games offered with the console?

Now give us a self-install hard drive upgrade option, MS.

RE: Pretty good value
By walk2k on 10/8/07, Rating: 0
RE: Pretty good value
By Frallan on 10/9/2007 9:00:54 AM , Rating: 1
only if bundeled with two hot Films in Blue-Ray :0)

RE: Pretty good value
By theapparition on 10/8/2007 1:15:16 PM , Rating: 3
What are you joking? The two games alone are worth $120 new.

Value is only worth it if you intended to buy those games. If you didn't, then is it really worth $120?

Not trying to start anything, but freebies, that are not used, don't add any value. But if you wanted those games, then it's a great deal.

Throw in Halo3 and Gears of War as the two free games, then even I would have to pick up a console. And I'm so old I have a stack of PC games still in shrinkwrap waiting for some free time.

RE: Pretty good value
By IceTron on 10/8/07, Rating: -1
RE: Pretty good value
By bighairycamel on 10/8/2007 2:12:34 PM , Rating: 3
Much like your spelling.

RE: Pretty good value
By erikejw on 10/9/2007 5:06:11 AM , Rating: 2
Throw in Halo3 and Gears of War

It still amazes me that people actually enjoy playing 3d shooters without a mouse. I can't stand it. If MS would throw in a mouse option I would go out an buy a XBOX otherwise I stick with my PC.

It is not like Microsoft can't purchase cheap mouses and bundle, oh wait they sell tons of mouses for PCS already.

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 2:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
To nitpick its not 120$s as Ultimate Alliance is a platinum hits title worth 29.99 so its a 90$ value.

I own both... and the PS3 cost me less overall to use.

Stuff I purchased for the 360.
HD-DVD Player $180
WiFi Adapter $90
Play and Charge Kit $30
12 Month Live Membership $49.99

PS3 60GB cost me $499 and has all those things out of the box, lets say the gold membership is nitpicking and exclude it. It still cost me $700 to get the same ability that the $499 PS3 had. If you include the price cut since than and the 2 games its more competitive. Its now $560 vs $499.

As for the cable ... the HDMI cable since its not of proprietary design cost me $14.99 for a 3 foot cable at a local store.

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 2:15:03 PM , Rating: 1
To add on, if we're going to count value added items, we could add the dubious value of the five free Blu-Ray movies you can get via mail-in with the PS3, and than OMG your getting an extra (at retail pricing) 175$ value !11!11

RE: Pretty good value
By AmbroseAthan on 10/8/2007 2:44:54 PM , Rating: 2
Well you can cross it out, being the HD-DVD drive comes with the same deal (5 free HD-DVD's), plus King Kong:

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 4:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
Thats only if you buy the HD-DVD drive which isn't included, and also why I didn't add the 175 to the "value" of the system, because it isn't really.

RE: Pretty good value
By rushfan2006 on 10/8/2007 3:59:33 PM , Rating: 2
Dude...its awful tacky to be in a conversation about value for the dollar for consoles when you bought everything for both

That's akin to someone who is a "cook" at the local "Burger World" franchise and they will bust on the skills of an executive chef at an exclusive 5 star restaurant.

It just doesn't seem right.

Oh and to everyone else -- STFU - you guys are sitting here complaining over the value of free stuff.

If you like the deal buy it, if you don't...shut up and move on with your life.

Its not that big a deal really.

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 4:49:47 PM , Rating: 4
Not really, I bought like nothing extra for the PS3 except an HDMI cable. I bought the other things for the 360 because I wanted them, they are all useful. HD-DVD Drive, I love the picture quality on my 1080p screen, and if I want to watch things like say Transformers I have to have it.

WiFi adapter? Well my router is where the cable box is which is on a whole seperate floor of the house than the 360, so unless I wanted to hire someone to run cabling than again it was nessecary.

Play and Charge? Sure it might take awhile for it to pay for itself but its a nice convinience.

As for the cable, well... Its nice and all that the component cable was included with the 360, but I paid almost as much for the optical audio cable like 10 bucks as I did the HDMI cable at 15.

A la carte is nice, but I wish it could be just a wee bit cheaper, or bundled for a similar price as it was with the PS3.

In my opinion the 360 regardless of price is the greater value... why? Relavent games.

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/8/2007 4:29:02 PM , Rating: 4
To get function for function capabilities out of both consoles the 360 will cost more overall. No one will argue that.

However there are other things to consider :

My HD-DVD add on was bought SEVERAL months after my 360..actually well over a year come to think of it.

I don't about you but it's much easier for me (and probably many people) to spend $500+ over time as opposed to one big purchase.

Coming up with $170 or so is much easier than $500+ at any given time for me, so while it did cost me extra for the HD-DVD it only cost me $200, as I already had my 360 well over a year. If I upgrade my tires on my car to 19" a year after I get it I don't add that to the cost of the car...or add on something to your house after purchase,,

(maybe not the best analogies, but I think you get the idea)

(and like it or not the HD-DVD is not needed at all in any way to enjoy your 360. Yes it's great for HD-DVD movies, but these are primarily game consoles here. You can own the 360 for 5+ years and not need the HD-DVD add on at all. So while it's always brought up when comparing the price of the consoles, no one needs it to play on XBOX Live, or Halo 3, or Bioshock, or Gears of War, or Mass Effect, or Forza 2, or to download HD movies from the marketplace, etc, etc)

The play and charge is only $20 not $30 (then again the wireless is $100 not $90, so your math balanced out in the end).

While the play and charge is extra, when the Sixaxis battery goes bad (as all batteries do) you can either A) deal with the hassle of opening your controller yourself (something I've done on PS2 controllers..not fun by any means) or B)send it in to Sony and wait for them to replace it.

I much prefer knowing if my battery dies in my 360 controller I can spend $12 at Wal-mart or Gamestop and get a new one. No hassle, no fuss.

(not to mention unless Sony plans on upgrading the battery in the new Sixaxis w/rumble..the battery life is going to go way down).

The Wi-fi adapter should be no more than $50, if not free. That is one area MS really should work one. I see NO reason for them to charge $100 for it. That is one area where they are sort of screwing the customer, but since wired is a much better connection anyway I don't mind..but accessories is where the console manufacturers always make a killing.

..what, you don't think the PS2 memory cards cost anywhere NEAR $25 to make do you? They might cost Sony $3-$4 (if not much less), counting packaging. If that's not a markup I don't know what is.

I know XBOX Live is $49 for the year (or $7 a month, as is the way I pay for it), but again the service is tops especially when compared to the PSN. The total integration and ease of use of XBOX Live is well worth my $7 a month. No one who isn't biased and that has used both services will say the PSN is better.

I know Live has been around longer, but Sony had 3+ years to work on getting their online into a comparable state. Sadly that is not the case yet. Their servers seem to be reasonably fast, but we'll see how fast they are when there are 7+ million members..any decent server can be fast with a low load.

In regards to the bundle games..Forza2 is pretty good. I like it personally. Marvel UA...I could care less (as I'm sure most people who buy it feel). I don't know anyone who actually "likes" the

Still free games are almost always a good thing. Heck if you don't want them bring them into Gamestop, get some credit and get a game you really want.. :-)

My two cents,

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 4:59:12 PM , Rating: 2
I agree on many points. Of course I bought the 360 long before the PS3, and for the primary reason .. games.

The PS3 I actually bought for a different reason... Blu-Ray movies and eventually games.

If you noticed I didn't count XBox Live against the XBox's pricing scheme because I agree its of greater value than PS3s online system, at least until they start getting some more online killer apps than just say Warhawk.

As for the controllers thing, the PS3 controllers are the same price as 360 controllers sometimes cheaper, and they already include the rechargable battery. Honestly I don't care.

The less now vs more later approach I actually prefer the opposite, which I guess is my main gripe. I'll pay more upfront if I don't get nickel and dimed along the way.

I do love the 360 though, and have picked up alot more than the comparison, more controllers for Madden, The Camera, 360 Wireless Headset, Logitech's Harmony controller for the 360, my GF has a couple of those silly dance pads for DDR Universe, I've got a couple of guitars for GH2, and I'll probably get Rock Band for the 360 since I think it will have the better multiplayer implementation.

That brings me to my last gripe, I wish the 360 had more USB ports by default :P

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/8/2007 5:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
I know you didn't count XBOX Live in your post..I meant to clarify that, but points on that were more for comparisons sake than anything anyway. ;-)

I bought my PS3 because at the time I was able to put it on layway and pay it out (again I can never come up with $500 at once unless I save up, but $50-$100 is usually not too hard to come by)..and regardless of how much I might pick on the PS3, I am looking forward to FF XIII, MGS4 (IF it doesn't go to the 360..if it does I will wait and see which version is "better")..Little Big Planet looks really cool as well..

..but other than that it has no real exclusives to speak of that catch my eye (I waited for the Folklore Demo and when it came out..I was sooo Maybe I was expecting a darker game?)

It has "Haze", which was going to go to the 360 as well but was pulled by the devs to be PS3 only (what, are they WANTING to sell as few copies as possible?, but that didn't really interest me even when it was going to the 360..look severely mediocre to me for some reason.

Killzone 2? I'll definitely wait and see how that one turns out. Who knows, it could be really, really good..but as I said I will take the wait and see approach on that one. If it's great I'll buy it..otherwise I'll get it when it's $20-$30 used (like I do a lot of games)

..and off the top of my head I can't think of any other exclusives that I want, and with the track record of 99% of 3rd party games being superior on the 360 in one way or another I see no reason not to buy those for the 360.

..hence why I, like you, game primarily on my 360. I own somewhere around 10 Blu-Ray movies and 12 or so HD-DVDs (a local pawn shop let me snag several at $10 a piece..couldn't pass it up. I only wish I would've had more cash on me at the, so I am trying to give both formats a fair shot, but with HD-DVD having lower production costs and less DRM, and the rumored sub $200 stand alone HD-DVD players coming for the holidays, I do lean towards HD-DVD.

I see your point on the controller issue, and that's fair (at least it isn't $60 like the Wii remote and nunchuck).

(I got the camera the day it came out as wireless headset yet. My friend at Gamestop keeps on telling me he hears way too many horror stories about them (not to mention they are still $50..and a used one is still $40), but I plan on getting one some day fairly soon regardless. I like tax

You bought the Harmony controller? Man, you went all That thing is a REALLY nice piece of hardware, but a little out of my budget. :-P

More USB ports would be cool, but I bought a $10 USB hub/memory card reader so that solved that issue. Not as elegant as the card reader on my PS3 but it works..

So, Marvel UA anyone?..

I thought


RE: Pretty good value
By Necaradan666 on 10/9/2007 3:12:17 AM , Rating: 2
Do Gamestop take bundle games? I know none of them will around here. Because everyone would try to get rid of them for cred.

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/9/2007 9:24:56 AM , Rating: 2
The Gamestops here in town (we have like 4-5) will usually take games even without cases, but with case is MUCH preferred.

Once a game is known as a pack in though the company usually adjust their prices accordingly..but this has to be done at a corporate level. So it may be a little bit before they do that, or they may anticipate this and adjust the prices before the bundles launch.

..but to answer your question, some Gamestops will take bundle games.


RE: Pretty good value
By augiem on 10/8/2007 2:48:01 PM , Rating: 2
Don't laugh. All the retailers want your attention during the cristmas season. Someone like Circuit City or Best Buy WILL throw in a couple of extras and I wouldn't doubt one may have a free aftermarket controller.

RE: Pretty good value
By Loc13 on 10/8/2007 3:11:23 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm PS3 includes component cable in every console. It doesn't come with HDMI, but component cable can still output full HD resolution. I'm not sure what do you mean by standard cable.

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/8/2007 3:57:26 PM , Rating: 2

..actually unless Sony changed something recently the PS3 does NOT come with component cables, only RCA (red/yellow/white). No AV, No component, No HDMI.

So out of the box the PS3 can only do 480i until you upgrade your cable.


RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 5:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
I'll second that, there are no component cables at least with the 60GB model.

RE: Pretty good value
By Loc13 on 10/9/2007 12:22:06 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure what you mean, I bought my 20GB version at launch, and it came with component cable. I bought a hdmi cable, which didn't work with the TV I had back home, and I have been using component cable until recently, when I bought a different LCD TV for my bedroom. I don't remember buying any component cable at all, which is why I think it came with the PS3. Maybe I'm mistaken.

A component or hdmi cable on monoprice costs less than $15 anyway, but I agree that it's unacceptable if the PS3 indeed doesn't come with component cables.

RE: Pretty good value
By Loc13 on 10/8/2007 3:43:12 PM , Rating: 1
I think the comparison should look like this.

For pure HD gaming only:
Xbox360 Premium - $350
Wireless Adapter: $100
2 games (worth $90) - Free
Total: $450

PS3 60GB -$500
2 games - $90
Total: $590

Both have, 1 wireless controller, hard drive, wireless adapter, HD component cable (included in PS3). Subtract $100 from PS3 total if you consider the upcoming 40GB version. Either way, Xbox360 represents a better value. Now if you throw in online gaming in there, then the 40GB PS3 is comparable to the Xbox360.

For HD gaming and HD video viewing:

Xbox360 Premium -$350
HD DVD drive - $180
Wireless Adapter: $100
2 games (worth $90) - Free
Total: $630

PS3 60GB -$500
2 games -$90
TOtal: $590

Subtract $100 from PS3 total if you consider the upcoming 40GB version. Either way, PS3 represents a better value.

So I guess it really depends on what you want your machine to do. You can argue that the wireless adapter is not necessary, but if you want to match feature by feature, then it should be included.

RE: Pretty good value
By Rampage on 10/8/2007 4:52:52 PM , Rating: 2
Take off $100 from anyone's account who's dumb enough to game on a wireless adapter to begin with.

I never, ever play games on wireless unless I absolutely have to, and since it's not that hard to run a cat5 cable, I don't deal with the possiblity of higher pings or lag from wireless.

PS3 having wireless is not good, but does speed adoption if they don't mind using wireless.
Maybe if it was N it'd be satisfactory, but it's not.

RE: Pretty good value
By Oscarine on 10/8/2007 5:05:08 PM , Rating: 2
For me it is nessecary, I can't run cables, the condo association here won't let me.

Frankly I'd prefer not to, I don't notice much difference at all.

That and 20ms of ping difference honestly doesn't change the fun factor of a game for me at all. Maybe it does for you, but to be so crass as to suggest that I should deduct 100$s from my account because I use wireless is silly and uninformed.

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/8/2007 5:49:36 PM , Rating: 2 that your name or it that what you always do?

Oscarine has a valid point :

Not everyone can run cable/have cable run where they live. If they live in an apartment or a condo, or even a rent home 99% of the time the owners don't look kindly on running cable. They simply won't allow it.

..and it definitely isn't easy pulling/running wire, especially in a house. I used to pull wire for a living (I still do once in a while, but more phone than Cat5 these days). If your home has firewalls it's basically impossible to run a wire down your wall. If you are extremely lucky it won't be TOO terrible, but 99% of the time it's WAAAAYYY more hassle than it's worth. If you have an attic you can use a piece of molding and go that route and punch through the ceiling..if the owners don't mind a hole in their ceiling. the way Mr "it's not that hard to run cable", have YOU ever actually pulled cable? Cat5 or otherwise? In a house? Pulling wire in an office type building is one thing..but a house? NEVER. EASY. EVER.

But if you don't have an attic then there is usually no real way to get cable from point A to point B..and if it's a multiple story building, forget about it.

Wireless DOES have it's place and it WAS invented for a reason.

Is it as good as wired? No. Not even the best wireless is as good, but they can come decently close.

While you are correct that wired is better (no one would argue that..or they shouldn't anyway, they'd be wrong), for some people it's simply NOT AN OPTION. Bottom line.

..and while I try VERY hard to refrain from being rude and vulgar on here, you really need to pull your head out of your rear end and stop being such an a$$.

You'd do well to temper yourself when you post.

I'd really hate to have to put you in your place every time you open your mouth. I far have better things to do with my time.


RE: Pretty good value
By erikejw on 10/9/2007 8:09:08 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the 5 free BluRay movies you get with the PS3.

RE: Pretty good value
By bighairycamel on 10/8/2007 11:20:54 AM , Rating: 2
Just wait till Black Friday. Last year I got mine with Lego Star Wars II and a free wireless controller. Since the game is now on Microsoft, you can bet on the stores giving away some other freebies after Thanksgiving.

RE: Pretty good value
By Mitch101 on 10/8/2007 11:28:25 AM , Rating: 2
I read somewhere that Halo 3 caused a 55% rise in X-Box 360 console sales.

I know I will get a 360 eventually I just dont know when as there are some PC games I am really looking forward to this X-mas season.

RE: Pretty good value
By therealnickdanger on 10/8/2007 11:32:02 AM , Rating: 3
I think I read that somewhere as well, but I can't find a link. However, I do know for a fact that it caused a 100% rise in my pants.

RE: Pretty good value
By monitorjbl on 10/8/2007 11:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
oh come on, that was a good one, don't vote him down.

RE: Pretty good value
By SunAngel on 10/8/2007 11:05:04 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but there is one (well maybe two) monkey wrenchs to content with... $400 PS3 and of course, the Wii.

RE: Pretty good value
By GaryJohnson on 10/8/2007 11:41:53 AM , Rating: 1
...$400 PS3...

You mean the new 40GB PS3 in this article: ?

It says €399, not $399. (399 Euros = 563.8668 U.S. Dollars)

RE: Pretty good value
By rdeegvainl on 10/8/2007 12:14:38 PM , Rating: 2
But then again, what was the price of the 60GB ps3 in both locations? Do the math on that and realize it will cost more converter in europe.

RE: Pretty good value
By GaryJohnson on 10/9/2007 5:39:50 PM , Rating: 2
You are correct; doing the math: the €399 PS3 should be around $403 USD ($399 sounds likely).

(I just realized we were dealing with EUR instead of GBP)

RE: Pretty good value
By Legionosh on 10/8/2007 12:19:28 PM , Rating: 3
Well that is the price in the UK/Europe..

..but since things there always cost more there than here in the US, a $399 PS3 in the US isn't out the realm of possibility (as a matter of fact that has been a rumor for weeks now).

The question is what will Sony do with the 40GB in the US.

For those not in the know, the 40GB will come with 2 USB ports instead of 4, no multi card reader, and will have NO Backwards compatibility (BC) least with PS2 games. I am uncertain is PS1 games will still function in this revision.

While $400 is indeed a very good price point, I don't think customers will be very happy losing the BC. I have seen arguments on boths side and my one of my main arguments is that Sony has been touting this as a main feature since BEFORE the launch of the PS3..

..and now they will cut it out? (I think if Blu-ray wasn't needed for paying games they might look at cutting that out as well..but that's a discussion for the Twilight Zone since that will never happen...)

Still, a $400 Blu-Ray player IS a good deal.

A $400 PS3 seems like a good deal, but I stand firm that losing a feature like BC will come back to bite least short term.

Maybe in a year or so people will look past that, but I know people going to buy PS3s today usually know in the back of their minds that their PS2 library will work (and if they don't know they often ask to confirm it).

..maybe it will prove to be no big deal, but EVERYONE I talk to feels the way I do..

..and I might feel differently if I didn't see people buying PS2 games to play on their PS3 all the time, but that is how it is.

My two cents,

RE: Pretty good value
By hrah20 on 10/8/2007 1:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
I think at this point, Sony should offer playstation 3 a la Carte, Yes give me ps3 with all the toppings, hold the blue ray drive please !!!

RE: Pretty good value
By Locutus465 on 10/8/2007 2:34:27 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, I think if MS really wanted to screw Sony they'd throw HD-DVD into just the elite SKU (or make a new Mega Elite or something)... Perhaps throw in wifi... If you want to spend more upfront to get everything all in one box you can, if you want to do a bit more customizing and save a bit of cash you can go for one of the more affordable packages... That's just my opion though...

RE: Pretty good value
By Bioniccrackmonk on 10/8/2007 11:20:47 AM , Rating: 2
cooler-running 65 nanometer Falcon CPUs are starting to show up in Halo 3 Special Edition consoles and will likely rollover to the rest of the Xbox 360 range shortly.

The smaller CPU's are not mainstream yet, according to this article. Once they are mainstream long enough to gaurantee not buying a 90nm version, I might bite.

RE: Pretty good value
By 1337n00blar on 10/8/2007 12:49:31 PM , Rating: 2
anyone have any idea if they'll make an announcement once all new 360s are 65nm, or how a consumer could tell short of opening up their 360 that it has the smaller chip?

RE: Pretty good value
By kinnoch on 10/8/2007 1:53:20 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't actually followed this link yet, but it was part of a post about how to tell if it was a 65nm box based on information on the box:

Sorry for not verifying the info, but i'm not that close to buying a 360 yet :)

Meh, I don't care..
By CupCak3 on 10/8/2007 12:18:23 PM , Rating: 2
I would never buy either of these titles so this combo would be worthless to me. Ebay will soon be flooded with these games, good luck getting more than 20 bucks for them.

RE: Meh, I don't care..
By rockyct on 10/8/2007 2:43:06 PM , Rating: 2
They'll also probably be on the same disk and quite obvious that it came with the xbox system. $20 seems like a reasonable price to get on ebay.

Forza 2 :)
By timmiser on 10/8/2007 6:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
That is one awesome game!!

"Nowadays you can buy a CPU cheaper than the CPU fan." -- Unnamed AMD executive

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