backtop


Print 109 comment(s) - last by AsicsNow.. on Jul 20 at 11:55 PM


ASUS P5K3 Premium (Source: ASUS)

ASUS Perfect T-Tree Design (Source: ASUS)
ASUS' P5K3 packs 2GB DDR3 memory onboard

ASUS this week announced its latest P5K3 Premium motherboard based on Intel’s P35 Express chipset, but with a twist. The P5K3 Premium does away with traditional memory slots and integrates DDR3 memory onboard instead. ASUS packs the P5K3 Premium with 2GB of DDR3 1333 MHz memory, or what ASUS calls Turbo D3 Onboard Memory. The memory has latencies between CL7-to-CL10.

ASUS laid out 2GB of DDR3 memory in a dual-channel configuration for optimal performance. The onboard memory is also set up in what ASUS calls a perfect T-Tree design, where the memory controller has access to each pair of memory chips. ASUS claims the T-Tree design reduces clock cycle timing by 50% compared to traditional fly-by designs, which grants the memory controller access to each module.

ASUS guarantees memory overclocks above 1500 MHz, nearly matching the speeds of high-end overclocking memory. However, ASUS recommends at least a 1066 MHz front-side bus processor to achieve memory speeds above 1500 MHz.

Other notable features of the ASUS P5K3 Premium include support for upcoming Penryn-family processors and 1333 MHz front-side bus processors.  Expansion capabilities of the P5K3 Premium include two PCIe x16 with CrossFire compatibility, two PCIe x1 and 3 PCI slots. ASUS also installs a JMicron JMB363 controller for one ATA133 and two e.SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports, in addition to the six internal SATA3.0 Gb/s ports provided by the Intel ICH9R.

Analog Devices provides audio via eight-channel high-definition audio codec. Dual Gigabit LAN is also standard. A large copper heat-pipe cools the P35 Express, ICH9R, VRMs and DDR3 memory.

Expect to pay quite a chunk of change when the board hits retail in the coming weeks.


Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Question
By FITCamaro on 7/13/2007 2:16:06 PM , Rating: 3
What happens if I want more than 2GB of RAM?

What person who builds their own systems is going to buy a motherboard with a fixed amount of RAM? Especially for the kind of money this thing will command. With many people going to 4GB of RAM with Vista, this thing is already lacking behind. Especially when you consider the insanely cheap prices of RAM these days.

Sorry Asus, you fail. It's probably a great motherboard. But I want to be able to go to at least 8GB of RAM, not be stuck with two.




RE: Question
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 7/13/2007 2:19:07 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
What happens if I want more than 2GB of RAM?


ASUS P5K3 Premium 4GB Ultra!!!!!1111ONE


RE: Question
By FITCamaro on 7/13/2007 2:31:03 PM , Rating: 2
You guys have all the answers huh.

/end sarcasm

:)


RE: Question
By Procurion on 7/14/2007 9:17:52 AM , Rating: 2
I see this as mostly an OEM board or "build your wife/children a computer" board, also. Motherboard-CPU combo, anyone? Fry's would by these by the thousands. The truth, whether some have argued the point or not is that virtually every tech or IT oriented person will tell you that increasing RAM is the single most effective way to increase performance. What I think people are forgetting is that the industry-wide recognized sweet spot for Vista is 2GB so it would appear that ASUS is offering a board for the sweet spot. This cannot be considered an enthusiast board, and never will. Enthusiasts burn things up, lol. I set off the smoke alarm in my study last week whilst trying to find out exactly how hard I could push an old Intel875 board. Sh.t happens, and enthusiasts are going to avoid a board that doesn't offer them "replaceability". So it boils down to lack of choice as already pointed out, and cost. Those two factors determine the market for this board and I seriously doubt that ASUS will price this above $300, more probably in the $175-$250 range, eventually-if it ever hits the market in full strength.


RE: Question
By jonmcc33 on 7/14/2007 10:31:52 PM , Rating: 2
$300? Have you checked prices for DDR3-1333 memory? Cheapest I have seen is $400 for a pair. Add that to the premium P5K part of $200ish I'd say this will be a $599 MSRP product minimum.

The P5K doesn't have onboard video either so I don't look at it as a wife/child computer.


RE: Question
By Procurion on 7/15/2007 12:40:17 PM , Rating: 2
And there you have it! Who's memory? Who's chips? These aren't outside vendored, complete sticks. These are individual memory chips purchased for Asus' own purposes, not complete modules. You can bet that when Asus orders 2 million memory chips that they will be paying pennies on the dollar compared to the prices you stated. One of the reasons that memory has been so inflated in price was the collusion and artificial fixing. Do you seriously think that a memory stick for $300 is as complicated and costly as the $300 CPU sitting next to it?


RE: Question
By Micronite on 7/16/2007 1:24:18 PM , Rating: 3
I'm certain they're using Micron memory components (and not just because I'm Micronite).

There are a few points to make about this system:

- Eliminating the DIMM socket will improve signal integrity. One of the hardest things for engineers is to get the speeds they're interested in and still maintain signal integrity through the inductive load of the socket.

- Their T style routing should also help decrease latency. It won't really change accesses from the Northbridge to the DRAM, but since the full 64-bits of data from the DRAM is available earlier, the memory controller will be able to hand off the data from the DRAM domain to the FSB domain earlier. You may end up saving a FSB clock every so often.

- 2GB: While that's not entirely ideal for enthusiasts, I can see why they went that route. Consider that 4GB would probably push most people away from the platform because of cost. With 2GB, you hit the Vista sweet spot and make a stellar overclocking system. If you're after a super, stable overclock, this is your platform. They'll have quite a few takers.

- DRAM cost: True, a CPU is more complicated than memory, but consider that there is more silicon on your memory module than there is on your CPU. Price is more determined by sellable area/wafer than it is by R&D. And as you pointed out, people who buy in bulk will generally pay less than those who buy few, but "pennies on the dollar" is grossly exaggerated. Try “ Quarters on the dollar” and you’ll be a little closer to the truth. In this particular case, you should pay less for the board with memory than you will pay for the board and memory separately (assuming Asus doesn’t bloat the price).


RE: Question
By RamarC on 7/15/2007 4:27:30 PM , Rating: 2
an oem board for a $300 wife/child computer at fry's? that's totally whacked out. this part is aimed at boutique buyers/builders and will cost as much as a complete low-end e-machines sunday special. it might show up in a falcon, but not at frys.

asus doesn't make ram chips and they'll get no better deal on the market than any other memory vendor. ocz and patriot will order far more chips in a quarter than asus will for the entire run of this mobo.

and if you were a real enthusiast, you'd know that the current p5k lineup (with built-in ram) is already in the $175-$250 price range.


RE: Question
By miekedmr on 7/16/2007 8:50:17 AM , Rating: 2
OK, I'm an IT oriented person.
RAM upgrades are not "the single most effective way to increase performance."
Admittedly, in many cases, where outdated PCs are running newer (bloated) software, the swap file has to be used so this is true.
If they aren't running software which needs more RAM than is available, adding RAM is useless and will have no effect on performance at all.
...I've had to convince too many people that buying 4GB of ram will not make their games run faster since they aren't using that much memory.


RE: Question
By Procurion on 7/16/2007 10:38:20 AM , Rating: 2
With respect to the situation I intended the statement to be considered-average computer that is sluggish when the most recent game or multiple app's are open, yes, RAM is the most effective upgrade. I'd go paychecks against anyone who wants to argue that 90% of home computers have more than 512K of RAM in them-they don't and that's the truth. That was the frame of reference I was pointing to with the RAM upgrade remark. It seems like every application you load onto your computer wants to enable a background-resident updater, some sort of tracking software, or just plain runs in he background. This is not something that "enthusiasts" allow to happen but be realistic. An "average" computer user is just short of dangerous when sitting in front of a computer. Most people just click on "OK" when the setup program asks if they want it to install all of the additional software. It isn't hard to get 400K in committed just on background-take a look at the article on the 2GB barrier-it isn't hard. That's all I meant. The issue about whether it's an enthusiast board vs upgrade is a non-starter....if they can't produce it for the lower price, it is easier and more cost effective to go buy a $500 special, getting an entirely new computer.


RE: Question
By mcturkey on 7/18/2007 12:57:32 AM , Rating: 2
I take your challenge. 90% or more of home computers have more than 512K of RAM in them. To what address shall I send my Paypal information?


RE: Question
By AsicsNow on 7/20/2007 11:52:05 PM , Rating: 2
rofl. Yeah, this isnt 1980 ;)


RE: Question
By omnicronx on 7/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: Question
By IcY18 on 7/13/2007 2:37:47 PM , Rating: 4
Any motherboard costing over $200 is guaranteed to be an enthusiast motherboard in the desktop arena. This one most likely hitting the $400 range is definitely the enthusiast motherboard.

Anybody building their own system has the know how that they would want to upgrade their memory as it is most times the cheapest most effective way to speed up your computer. While this is a good idea to increase memory performance it fails in the fact that 4GB is on the rise for enthusiast size memory because of Vista. Because of any half way smart enthusiast would want to make sure the mobo has atleast some future proofing involved.

This idea may be a good one for performance, but will not appeal to people who build their own systems, and the price alone sets it in that arena.


RE: Question
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 2:51:01 PM , Rating: 3
but in the case it can not be compared to say a 200-400 dollar part because the ram is integrated, and depending on the price of ddr3 memory and if asus say gives you the ram at cost or a little over to sell the motherboard, it could be a good solution.
Keep in mind i am only using the word 'could', i have no idea what asus has planned for this board or who it is going to be directed at, but my point was by looking at this article, you cant either.


RE: Question
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 7/13/2007 3:14:28 PM , Rating: 1
Yea I'm currently using 4GB of DDR2-800 ram. Will likely make it 8GB of ram in my next system, which should be sometime next year. Although I could do it on my current rig if I wanted to bad enough.


RE: Question
By Treckin on 7/13/2007 6:14:29 PM , Rating: 2
Hope u run a 64 bit os...


RE: Question
By thebrown13 on 7/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: Question
By Le Québécois on 7/13/2007 7:25:09 PM , Rating: 5
Some would also argue that you would be mentally handicapped to install Vista IF you are already running Windows XP 32bit and that every thing works perfectly fine for you.

But I'm not part of those person, I prefer to stay neutral ;).


RE: Question
By phaxmohdem on 7/13/2007 9:59:03 PM , Rating: 1
I've also got 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM in my System running 32 Bit Windows XP (So 3.25GB of RAM really)

I was all psyched about Using Vista 64 bit and all 4 Glorious GB of RAM. I even BOUGHT a copy of Vista Ultimate. I installed it for approximately 2 weeks. At which point enough stupid crap and/or incompatibilities annoyed me to the point of Taking a .75GB RAM redux, and just using what I know works.

After how many years? 64 bit is still not ready for prime time. Interested to see Apple's switch over to a 64 bit OS with Leopard. Hopefully that will push the industry into correcting /smoothing over the compatibility issues faced by users today, particularly when needing to run "Legacy" 32 bit software.


RE: Question
By elpresidente2075 on 7/13/2007 11:47:41 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
64 bit Windows is still not ready for prime time.


You forgot one word, corrected.

Linux has been 64bit for a long time, and solid as a rock at that.


RE: Question
By phaxmohdem on 7/14/2007 3:26:20 PM , Rating: 3
Good point.


RE: Question
By KamiXkaze on 7/14/2007 5:22:30 PM , Rating: 3
Yep and for quite while to at that.

KxK


RE: Question
By quickk on 7/16/2007 5:11:26 PM , Rating: 2
Even though 64-bit linux has been out for a while, it is still a pain in the derriere to get everything working properly. It's not necessarily the operating system's fault, but instead the myriad of outside programs who are not made to work in 64 bit yet.

For example, there is no 64-bit browser plugin (java 1.5).

I've installed multiple versions of 64-bit and 32-bit linux distributions, and 64-bit is always a pain in the ass.


RE: Question
By elpresidente2075 on 7/20/2007 2:45:48 AM , Rating: 2
With all the things that 64-bit Linux does better than 64-bit Windows, I'd have to say that that is a bit of a nitpick. Seems it's coming with the next version of java:
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id...

However, I do know what you mean. So many things are just not compiled for 64-bit. But with the ever increasing number of 64-bit compatible computers out there, there are more developers developing for those platforms (since they are able to get them themselves) and it will quickly become the standard.

In the two years I've dealt with Linux, I've only used 64-bit distros, and I've seen great positive strides in the ease of setup and usability of 64-bit Linux. Admittedly, they've historically been difficult to deal with, but it is much better now than ever, and will continue to get better until 128-bit comes around. Even then, I'm sure the Open-source community will be years ahead of Microsoft in the stability front, and will have a fully-functional, robust, and secure operating system while Microsoft is touting IE9 (year 2020, I'm sure): "Now With Full CSS2 Support!!"


RE: Question
By AsicsNow on 7/20/2007 11:55:09 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe by 2020 they'll add proper support for PNG files too!


RE: Question
By Flunk on 7/14/2007 1:19:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'm running an Athlon XP, how do you suggest I run 64-bit Windows, you clod?


RE: Question
By TomZ on 7/14/07, Rating: 0
RE: Question
By bubbacub616 on 7/14/2007 1:35:40 PM , Rating: 2
whats wrong with an athlon xp. i've got a 3000+ and its still find to play oblivion etc. with a new vid card


RE: Question
By TomZ on 7/14/07, Rating: 0
RE: Question
By BAFrayd on 7/16/2007 10:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
EXACTLY! Finally an informed comment...


RE: Question
By FITCamaro on 7/13/2007 2:38:20 PM , Rating: 2
Hater? Every motherboard I ever buy is an Asus.

I was examining the product and the flaw I see with its logic. And if you think its going to be cheap enough for an OEM PC, you're wrong. The only OEM PCs it'd be able to be put in is high end XPS type OEM PCs. And anyone with half a brain would look into if they can upgrade the memory before buying a $4000 PC. Granted people who are dumb enough to buy an overpriced XPS might be dumb enough to buy a PC with un-upgradeable memory....


RE: Question
By Lightning III on 7/13/2007 3:12:47 PM , Rating: 4

the real flaw is this isn't the X38 baord


RE: Question
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 2:39:10 PM , Rating: 2
go to love the ratings system ;)


RE: Question
By Duraz0rz on 7/13/2007 2:32:49 PM , Rating: 2
Could be because of the current price of DDR3 RAM, they want to keep the price of the entire board down.

I'm sure once DDR3 RAM starts coming down, the board (and its possible successors if it takes off) will come with more memory and more configurations.


RE: Question
By TomZ on 7/13/2007 2:45:14 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
What happens if I want more than 2GB of RAM?

I agree - having only 2GB RAM maximum would be a deal-killer. They should have put in 2GB of RAM, plus a pair of memory slots. Oh well.


RE: Question
By FITCamaro on 7/13/2007 4:13:04 PM , Rating: 1
Thats what I was thinking. Give us the ability to add more in addition to the onboard stuff.


RE: Question
By phaxmohdem on 7/13/2007 10:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Question
By leexgx on 7/14/2007 8:37:31 PM , Rating: 1
Vista for gameing (high res settings thought) realy needs 3-4gb of ram 2gb ram does not cut it for Home users 2gb be fine

i cant be bothered with the comptibly problems with vista at this time (Teamspeak and other things that not working right or work slower)

thay should of given an option to add 2 more sticks in ther


RE: Question
By jonmcc33 on 7/15/2007 2:21:02 AM , Rating: 2
Gaming on higher resolutions depends on the video memory and not the system memory. I have 2GB RAM and could run at 1680x1050 without a problem, thanks.


RE: Question
By StevoLincolnite on 7/16/2007 2:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
I used to have an Acer Aspire 1680 Laptop, with a Pentium M 1.6ghz @ 2.1ghz, 1gb of DDR soDIMM ram, and a Mobility Radeon 9700 Pro (Desktop 9600Pro).

Despite having 1gb of ram, Vista seemed to run fine, While playing Oblivion, I had a few performance mods, and it ran at high quality settings @ 800x600.
I was pulling 16 thousand 3D marks in 2001.

So 1gb of ram would be fine for a wife/children if all they are going to do is play some basic Popcap/Gamehouse/Reflexive arcade games and the internet/email.

Compatibility was fine for me, but I was ticked off how the Omega Drivers are not supported though, in-fact the only thing that annoyed me immensely was the re-vamped networking but after awhile I got used to it.

But I agree even having 1 Ram slot would be better than nothing, because one day 2gb sticks of ram may be available. (If they aren't already).


RE: Question
By 1078feba on 7/13/2007 4:14:47 PM , Rating: 3
Ya know, seeing as how this thing is arguably being marketed toward the enthusiast, what with the tidbit about OC'ing the RAM, the big thing for me would be the RMA process.

Who would really want to RMA an entire board for a single stick of RAM?


RE: Question
By eek2121 on 7/13/2007 4:16:20 PM , Rating: 2
1) If you need more than 2 GB right now, this board obviously isn't for you (and if you can afford 8 GB ddr3 then bless you)
2) Memory standards have begun to change rapidly. By the time you are ready to upgrade you'll have to upgrade your motherboard anyway.


RE: Question
By TomZ on 7/13/2007 4:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
The point is that 2GB is probably fine for now, but you might want to upgrade to 4GB in 1-2 years. Then you're screwed.


RE: Question
By eek2121 on 7/13/2007 5:15:33 PM , Rating: 2
And you missed my point. 2 years ago I built my current setup, which uses DDR. Then DDR2 came out, but i haven't built anything recently as my current box was getting the job done just fine. Now DDR3 is coming out, and it's almost time for me to build a new box. Since i'm sticking with XP i won't need more than 2 GB until i'm ready to upgrade to a faster system. Even if i WANTED to upgrade my RAM down the road, there would already be DDR4 or DDR5 out. RAM technologies are changing too much. ASUS knows this so they decided to release a board with RAM built in. This should in theory lower costs a bit, and provide better performance. I DO wish they had a 4 GB version though.


RE: Question
By TomZ on 7/14/2007 1:24:52 PM , Rating: 2
So what are you doing with those motherboards you replace every two years?

I replace my machine every two years as well, but my previous machines stay in service. I usually pass them along to someone else in my home or business who can put them to good use.

Also, I wouldn't ever upgrade for the purpose of upgrading the RAM, e.g., DDR2 -> DDR3. That kind of upgrade is insignificant compared to the speed increase you'll see with a new processor compared to a two-year old processor.


RE: Question
By timmiser on 7/13/2007 5:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
But how many enthusiasts keep the same motherboard for 2 years?

If the tradeoff for non-upgradability is speed. Then I'm listening!

And if you compare this concept to our current non-upgradable video cards, it is not that hard to accept.


RE: Question
By Comdrpopnfresh on 7/13/2007 6:42:11 PM , Rating: 3
I'd consider myself a slight enthusiast. I am going to have my board for 4 years, because while I'm in college I don't have money. I just upgraded my system by adding a second drive for my swap, and lapped my ihs and hsf so i could overclock more. I also doubled the ram in my system. Not all upgrades mean building a whole new computer


RE: Question
By FITCamaro on 7/16/2007 9:15:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
But how many enthusiasts keep the same motherboard for 2 years?


*Raises hand*

Provided its a competitive board, I will. My current 975X based board is nearly a year old. And while I want to drop a quad core and another 2GB of RAM in it, I have no reason to change it. I'm sticking with my current video card for now, but I'm hoping to get whatever ATI card comes out after the 2900 series. I figure by then they'll have a more competitive card out. And I'd rather not buy 1st gen DX10 hardware anyway. It'll take at least until then before any DX10 games look significantly better than the DX9 code path.


RE: Question
By phattyboombatty on 7/13/2007 4:39:35 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
What happens if I want more than 2GB of RAM?


Then you wouldn't buy this board. But, if you're planning on building a system with 2GB of RAM, this board could be a great option. Most people, like myself, generally buy a board with the intent to add more RAM in the future. However, I've discovered that often when its time to upgrade to more RAM, I also buy a new board. I can only remember one time in my past where I upgraded to more RAM on an existing board (I'm on my sixth computer). I built a Core2Duo system about six months ago with 2GB of DDR2 RAM, and I would have strongly considered this type of board if the performance benefit was high enough. By the time I need more than 2GB of RAM I will be ready to upgrade to a new board.


RE: Question
By LogicallyGenius on 7/14/2007 3:35:44 AM , Rating: 2
How about getting a new Motherboard with onBoard 8GB 2600 MHz DDR3 two years down the line


RE: Question
By Treripica on 7/14/07, Rating: 0
RE: Question
By Shawn on 7/16/2007 10:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. I already have 4GB of ram in my PC.


By The Boston Dangler on 7/13/2007 3:10:01 PM , Rating: 3
I think many enthusiasts would be more interested in a totally stripped board. Obviously, the industry is all about consolidation, then system-on-a-chip, but for me all these bells and whistles do is jack up the price. There are expansion slots for a reason. Almost any card will be superior to any integrated device for the forseeable future.

1. The over-the-top cooling used on many high-end boards is usually superfluous, often poorly mounted, and can interfere with installation of other parts.

2. Dump the on-board sound. Plenty of other standards are violated all the time, why not this? Even if that steaming pile called Vista cripples sound cards, analog output is still univerally better on a discrete card.

3. We can dump the legacy connectors now, thank you. Noone spending over $400 for this board is too cheap to ditch their 10+ year old keyboard, mouse, printer, joystick, et cetera. Just give me a ton of USBs, SATAs, maybe a second NIC, and some Firewire for the 5 people that have 1394 devices.

All that being said, I think this board would be much more attractive with 4GB, despite the price. They could easily incorporate a 2GB/4GB swith in BIOS for 32 and 64-bit OS.




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 7/13/2007 3:17:05 PM , Rating: 5
Most enthusiasts tbh like the ability to pick their own parts, if they cant change the memory or put in memory from a brand/rating they choose, they don't like it in many cases.


RE: This is the exact opposite of what I want
By DeepBlue1975 on 7/13/2007 3:33:35 PM , Rating: 2
That's what makes me see this board as a weird, yet bold move.

No enthusiast likes something that's not upgradeable, and RAM is the first component everybody plans on upgrading sooner or later, enthusiast or not.

They should find a way to include that, and yet allow you to upgrade the memory even further if you want, and, why not, even be able to disable the on board memory if some time in the future you want to do that, or if you just want to test the difference between "on board super pine tree wood blah blah" vs "run of the mill ddr3 bought at the grocery store".


By The Boston Dangler on 7/13/2007 3:52:46 PM , Rating: 2
"and RAM is the first component everybody plans on upgrading sooner or later, enthusiast or not."

I strongly disagree. I've found that when it's time for new RAM, it's time for new everything.


By TomZ on 7/13/2007 4:16:28 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree - in nearly every computer system I've owned, I upgrade (double) the RAM after 1-2 years. Usually RAM is kind of expensive when I do the initial build/purchase, but is quite a bit cheaper later.


RE: This is the exact opposite of what I want
By DeepBlue1975 on 7/13/2007 4:53:30 PM , Rating: 2
That's your particular case.
But I know about quite many people, enthusiasts and not, that do upgrade RAM.

Reasons:

1- more ram
2- faster ram than they were able to get when they bought the board.

I like the idea behind this board, but I know I'll need probably twice that ram if the switch to 64bit OSs gets more serious (as you can't take advantage of 4gb on 32bit XP setups), thus, I'll have to look elsewhere (the equivalent asus with no preinstalled ram will fit me right)

My rigs usually last somewhere between 1 and 3 years before I change everything, so that I want something that can give me at least a little upgrade headroom, memory wise.


By LogicallyGenius on 7/17/2007 9:58:09 AM , Rating: 2
Why will one invest in DDR2 instead of DDR3 ?

Hmm, unless the person made a mistake of buying a future proof MOBO.


By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 3:36:08 PM , Rating: 4
i would like to point out though that this board in peticular has the so called T-Tree design in which asus says
quote:
Turbo D3 Onboard Memory feature. With this feature, Asus says that users are guaranteed DDR3 overclocking speeds of above 1500 and reduced clock cycle timings by 50% for random data access


This performance increase could make it a viable solution even for an enthusiast though i wonder if its even possible to have this configuration if the user selects the ram as there would probably be extreme compatibility issues, this could be the reason for the ram being onboard.

then again this technology is all theoretical and until i will retain judgment until i see some proof of a performance increase that would warrant this setup.


RE: This is the exact opposite of what I want
By Duraz0rz on 7/13/2007 4:16:38 PM , Rating: 5
I like my PS/2 keyboard port, thank you!

Old IBM keyboard ftw :D


RE: This is the exact opposite of what I want
By phaxmohdem on 7/13/2007 10:09:30 PM , Rating: 5
Click.... Click Click Click Click CLick... Click... Click Click Click Click Click... Click.. Click.


By dude on 7/14/2007 1:58:08 AM , Rating: 3
haha! This was exactly what I was thinking after reading the ps/2 port! :) Hopefully, nobody has to work in the cubicle next to the guy who has the old IBM clicky's.

There are some older wireless keyboards/mice that use the legacy ports, so it's not a bad idea to keep this.

Also, there are alot of old KVM's out there that does not have USB. Legacy ports will allow those users to use them without spending a few hundred bucks extra for the newer KVM's.

Parallel ports can and should go. Serial ports are still vital, I believe. I don't use them but every once in awhile, I have to hook up a cisco router for testing and then, I'm always wishing for a serial port. Of course, serial port cards are available, but that means something extra to install in the much needed PCI port and also an extra expense...


RE: This is the exact opposite of what I want
By Alias1431 on 7/15/2007 3:40:29 AM , Rating: 3
Haha, I understand, however, I love my keyboard!

I have this old Dell keyboard, and the click-clack when I type is so satisfying to me. I would never trade this up for a G-15 or other modern keyboard. My mouse of course if a different story.
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items....


By phaxmohdem on 7/16/2007 4:59:30 AM , Rating: 2
I used to own that exact keyboard. I even had the black version of that at one time. Which I loved. But in defense of the Logitech G15 (Which I currently use right now) It has a very tactile responsive feel to it. Just doesn't create the required decibel levels to drown out your co-workers or roommates :)

Plus G-Keys & the LCD are even more satisfying than keeping the neighbors awake by typing all night :)


cool
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 2:12:45 PM , Rating: 1
thats pretty damn cool. I can see it now, asus selling barebones pc with ram, cpu and videocard integrated, and doing something similar to intel's centrino, for compatibility since all the parts could be the same for all asus boards :)

I just wonder what the T-Tree stuff is and if it really works, does anyone have any information on it?




RE: cool
By Duraz0rz on 7/13/2007 2:19:17 PM , Rating: 2
It looks like, as opposed to accessing memory sequentially, it'll determine where the memory location to be accessed is based on a binary search.

I'm just going by the charts haha.


RE: cool
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 2:32:18 PM , Rating: 2
ya i can see it works more in parallel than in series, i was more wondering if there is actually a performance improvement over the old method.. well of more than say 2-3% which i would not give a flop about.


RE: cool
By Duraz0rz on 7/13/2007 2:44:57 PM , Rating: 2
It has potential. If a program/file/model/whatever can fit in one large sequential chunk of memory, I don't see any improvement there, but if it had to be broken up across all the modules, then I can see where it would improve. Less time for the CPU to wait for information.


RE: cool
By Micronite on 7/16/2007 5:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
For starters, Intel memory controllers work on a 64-bit (72-bit for ECC) wide DRAM bus. When it asks the DRAM for data, it gets 64 bits (even if it only really needs 8 bits). So, this design doesn't do anything about accessing only what you need. That would require a new memory controller design. The "T" is strictly routing.

DDR3 modules use a flyby method of routing which means the commands/addresses/clocks are routed from component to component.

This flyby routing makes it so the last component on the chain actually sees the command later than the first component on the chain. Therefore, the last component on the chain will send it's data later than the first component does.

Basically this means that on top of the routing delays from the memory controller to the DIMM, you have the delay from the first component to the last component.

DDR and DDR2 module designs used a "T" like Asus does here. This means that all the DRAMs should see the commands at the same time. Your routing is more complex, but you cut out the extra delay of the last component. In the end, this saves you less than a nanosecond.

Since both the FSB and DRAM bus run syncronously but on different clocks, there's a handoff that happens at some point between the memory controller and the FSB. The only way this design can improve performance is if the memory controller can push the data to the FSB just fast enough to save a FSB clock cycle.

Honestly, when all is said and done, I don't see the "T" design doing much for overall performance.


Mmmmm, nice...
By Khato on 7/13/2007 7:00:47 PM , Rating: 3
Sure, there's the little 'problem' of then being locked in to a certain amount of memory, but how much of a problem is it? Yes, with this particular board anyone can see quite easily that with only 2GB you'll be getting a performance hit before too long, especially with heavy multitasking. But I'd fully expect that Asus will notch it up to 4GB with the X38 chipset. Guesstimating by the size of the heatspreader on the memory, I'd say that there's probably 16 memory chips, so at the 1Gb density that P35 officially supports, 2GB is the max. It'd likely prove far too difficult in routing to put 32 chips on board... The X38 meanwhile supports the 2Gb memory density, so Asus would be able to just change the chips used and be up to 4GB.

Oh, and this really is a sweet thing to do... You do know that the main reason graphics card memory is at such higher frequencies is because the signaling can support it. The way that system memory is done currently will never be near so good as having the chips integrated onto the board.




RE: Mmmmm, nice...
By Lord Evermore on 7/16/2007 12:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
I'd like to see just how "integrated" the modules are; the one available image isn't very clear. Unless they soldered the chips individually to the board, there won't be much of a difference in the connections. But that might be why it appears to take up the space of 4 memory slots, if the chips are flat and the heatsinks sitting on top of them.

Maybe Asus just paid a buttload for the best-binned chips.


RE: Mmmmm, nice...
By Khato on 7/16/2007 2:24:51 PM , Rating: 3
I'd be incredibly surprised if they didn't surface mount the chips. Surface mount gives the best connection and doesn't cost them anything extra really with the current manufacturing processes. The amount of space covered by the heat spreader implies that such is the case - imagine 16 BGA memory chips laid out in 2x8 configuration under there.

Really, doing anything other than surface mounting the chips would kinda defeat the purpose of doing it. Especially because, well, it allows for the chips to -not- be the best-binned and still perform great.


Didn't they get the MEMO?
By Eurasianman on 7/13/2007 2:31:01 PM , Rating: 4
Yea... nowadays... apps are coming close to surpassing 2 GIGs of memory and some already have. This is only good for the user that doesn't plan on going 64-bit IMO and doesn't do anything other than internet, music, movie, office, etc. I can easily max out my 2 Gigs of RAM with just Vista and BF2142! What a joke!

Yesterday's Anandtech article:
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=30...




RE: Didn't they get the MEMO?
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 2:58:22 PM , Rating: 3
And the award to biggest generalization goes to:
first i will start off, if you are going 64 bit, then yes you are perfectly correct, my 2gig system runs only 'ok' on 2gb.

but in a 32bit configuration to say 2gigs is only sufficient to run internet, music, movie, office is the real joke. Sure if you are a hard core gamer that needs to run everything at its highest resolution or you are a graphics designer or you work with AUTO CAD then of course 2gb will not be enough (to make it totally seamless that is). but for the casual user who does not care about playing in the highest resolution or the extra 10ms it takes to open a program, 2gb is perfectly fine. It all depends on what you do.


Wow... youre a short sighted fool
By thatguy39 on 7/14/2007 12:54:40 AM , Rating: 4
So ASUS does something different and they get killed... this is the first generation of something that could be great...

The next version of this Mobo could have 8GB of ram in it thats running MUCH faster than anything you could otherwise get.... THEN this would be the enthusiast machine of choice.

Damn stop crying, give ASUS some credit for trying something different and stop acting like you know more than the designers and businessmen who run ASUS... because you DONT.




RE: Wow... youre a short sighted fool
By dude on 7/14/2007 2:14:51 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed.

Imagine this, if Asus puts 4GB or 8GB and because of the price of DDR3 memory right now, it cost 700-1200 bucks for this board, would anyone buy it? Most likely not.

This board is mostly for system integrators or for persons who do not plan to upgrade in about a year or two, when more memory is standard/needed.

I personally think it's an excellent idea, however, I myself, would not buy it since I upgrade more frequently than once or twice a year. I've only upgraded my motherboard 2 months ago, and the previous motherboard was less than 6 months ago.


latencies between CL7-to-CL10????????
By justinburton on 7/13/2007 2:36:14 PM , Rating: 1
If the memory has latencies "between CL7-to-CL10," but the "perfect tree design" reduces "50% clock cycle timing," then won't it just operate at between CL3.5-CL5? Why not just have a board with regular DDR3 CL3.5-5 memory but also have the option of expansion. I know DDR3 memory is expensive and lower latencies are hard to get but in no time they will have CL3-5 DDR3 modules.

Not the smartest thing Asus has done. But has potential. I like the Idea of 8GB onboard. Haha.




RE: latencies between CL7-to-CL10????????
By Martimus on 7/13/2007 2:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why not just have a board with regular DDR3 CL3.5-5 memory but also have the option of expansion.


Because CL3-CL5 DDR3 RAM doesn't exist. In fact, I don't believe that DDR3 allows for less than CL5 timings.


RE: latencies between CL7-to-CL10????????
By omnicronx on 7/13/2007 3:00:57 PM , Rating: 2
guess you shoulda read yesterdays article =D
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8032

(im not knocking ya ;) its existence has been known for a grand total of less than 24 hours haha)


By Haltech on 7/13/2007 4:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
I'm assumuming but if the low latency ram cost 800 dollars just for the ram it self, the mobo is probably 900+. Talk about an enthusiest motherboard


50% faster?
By Polynikes on 7/13/2007 2:34:14 PM , Rating: 2
I'm interested to see how much faster, if at all, this memory setup is. Although it's "only" 2GB, that can be changed in later revisions. I wonder if this new setup really does increase memory performance.




RE: 50% faster?
By kenji4life on 7/13/2007 2:45:48 PM , Rating: 3
It looks good on paper.. let's see some reviews with benchmarks. If this price tag includes a commanding lead over similar motherboards, they have a viable product. Otherwise it looks kind of like a "Killer NIC" . . .


Great Idea, stop the hating
By Hakuryu on 7/13/2007 4:50:48 PM , Rating: 5
If they really get the performance quoted in the article, then is really a great idea. Besides future versions that may have more memory, perhaps this new T technology might find it's way into the next memory standard. 50% is nothing to sneeze at.

I build alot of PC's for the PC-challenged, and I think I'll be recommending this mobo to alot of people (bar insane prices). I can't count the number of times customers of mine have called with memory problems, and with mem onboard, most if not all of those compatibility/etc problems will go away. I always try and match memory to a motherboard when pricing a system... but if you've perused mobo manufacturers tested memory lists... there is always like 1 brand you know, 10 brands you never heard of, and most brands you would like aren't even listed.

I've only got 2GB's on my system now, and can play all games at max settings... you really only need more mem if you are into video/sound editing. Sure more memory will help you out in almost any situation, but if you are buying a midrange PC then this solution may be the best. If I'm paying about $800 for a PC, then I'm not worried about upgrading... I'll replace most everything with a new build in a few years. If you are buying top of the line, then this mobo wouldn't be good.




actually a good idea
By 8steve8 on 7/14/2007 3:26:13 AM , Rating: 3
this is actually a great idea, especially if there is tangable performance benifits. no risk of incompatibility and other issues... no guesswork in bios to get timmings optimal.

but

I must say asus is underestimating the desired amount of memory... this is a high end solution, should be 4GB.

2GB without upgradability would make this board for light users, who will not pay for this type of solution.

the reason asus may have used 2gb is the high cost of ddr3.

id like to see this in 4/8gb ddr2 configs.
I'd buy it,




RE: actually a good idea
By Khato on 7/14/2007 11:55:36 AM , Rating: 2
The reason for it being 2GB is really quite simple... The P35 chipset doesn't support the 2Gb density, and with 1Gb density it'd take 32 memory chips to get 4GB. They could possibly do it, but doubling the amount of board space currently taken by the memory chips -and- routing everything with the greater distance would prove quite difficult.

Just wait until X38, which does support 2Gb chip addressing. Not to mention the performance gains...


Congratulations!
By pnyffeler on 7/13/2007 3:30:51 PM , Rating: 2
You just spent a bunch of money on a motherboard with 2 GB of built in DDR3 RAM that let you play games a whole 2-5% faster than if you put in memory sticks yourself.

In other news, users have found they get >5% boost in speed of most games by upping their RAM from 2 GB to 4 GB....




RE: Congratulations!
By soydios on 7/13/2007 4:05:51 PM , Rating: 2
Especially with Vista. I'm consistently the first person to load maps in BF2, often by several seconds, with 4GB of RAM for Vista SuperFetch to play with (it really does work), but only a 7200RPM Seagate 7200.10 320GB.


Not enough heatpipes!
By Parhel on 7/13/2007 11:52:54 PM , Rating: 2
It needs 3 or 4 more heatpipes. Maybe they could add some heatpipes to the USB ports or something.




RE: Not enough heatpipes!
By Lord Evermore on 7/16/2007 12:32:43 AM , Rating: 2
Those Gigabit LAN controllers obviously need to be heatsinked and heatpiped, to reduce thermally-induced noise that causes errors and retransmissions. You might get a whole 64Kbps more speed!

The audio chip also needs proper cooling. I mean, it's handling HIGH-DEFINITION and 8 full channels of audio. You don't want heat to cause any noise or static or distortion in the high-performance, crystal-clear onboard audio.


at least it will work
By IREWolfman on 7/15/2007 11:24:14 AM , Rating: 2
At least you know the ram works!

And dont have to go through 5 sets to get it working




RE: at least it will work
By Lord Evermore on 7/16/2007 12:35:44 AM , Rating: 2
If they'd stop pushing for everything to be overclocked and out-of-spec, and get JEDEC moving on something like a CURRENT memory standard speed, or gosh, even something like a NEXT version, maybe more modules would be compatible with more boards.

I.e., make the boards work with stock modules within the specs, THEN give them overclocking ability.


Serial memory access?
By Lord Evermore on 7/16/2007 12:25:42 AM , Rating: 2
That T-Tree thing looks sketchy. Asus has redesigned the way a memory controller functions? Or is it designed as if each pair of chips is a separate slot, so there are actually like 8 slots with 4 for each channel (basically I guess the same way a server mainboard with 8 slots works), or something completely different?

I mean, the controller only has two ports for signalling to the memory, right (or 1 wide port or however the dual-channel function is set up)? How does it only send/receive from a particular pair of chips in this design but it can't do that with normal modules?

Since when is SDRAM accessed serially?




RE: Serial memory access?
By Khato on 7/16/2007 2:15:02 PM , Rating: 2
If you look at the pinout of a 240 pin DDR2/3 DIMM it'll become a bit more obvious. The command signals going from MCH to the memory come into the DIMM on one pin per signal, that signal then has to be routed to each of the 4/8/16 modules on the DIMM. Dunno about the exact nature of DIMM manufacturing, but I'm imagine that they delay the signal for the closer chips so that all the commands arrive approximately equal. Anyway, soldering the chips onto the motherboard gives perfect control over route distance for all the command lines and allows that distance to be minimized.

Basically, it's not accessed serially, Asus marketing just took the liberty of displaying it in a fashion that appeared so. It is basically accurate with regards to distance, however.


The idea is that
By scrapsma54 on 7/15/2007 1:57:16 AM , Rating: 3
With this t tree design possibly the amount of memory timings will outweigh the dis advantage of only 2Gb of DDR3 memory.
#1 I have been waiting for something a long time that integrates memory on the board and #2 that optimizes upon that feature to reduce memory cycles.




Bring on ......
By alvin3486 on 7/13/2007 4:59:21 PM , Rating: 2
Bring on the X38 motherboards with PCI express 2.0!




Price!
By Slaimus on 7/13/2007 6:45:58 PM , Rating: 2
2GB of DDR3 is already insanely expensive. I can imagine this motherboard bundle costing $1000.




:/
By sirius4k on 7/14/2007 7:35:00 AM , Rating: 2
Well that's a weird one :S
I agree with the majority.. as I like to build my own rig.. this is not acceptable.

PS! When can we see some new nVidia chipsets supporting DDR3?




Nice but not so nice
By KamiXkaze on 7/14/2007 3:51:38 PM , Rating: 2
Just what everyone else has stated not a bad board, but not an enthusiast board. Most people tend to pick there on memory so for the OEM crowd yes enthusiast not very likely.

KxK




Great Idea
By PLaYaHaTeD on 7/15/2007 1:07:37 AM , Rating: 2
I love the idea, but there are some concerns I have. Firstly, someone mentioned a $400 price point. I seriously doubt it is that cheap, but if it is that means the 2 gigs are seriously discounted as compared to what the prices are for standalone modules. My guess is that there will actually be a premium on this board, but the question is how much?

Secondly, what kind of situation would you be in if the ram started to fail? I'm not sure where ram ranks on the "most likely to fail" list of computer parts (i know the floppy drive is first, hard drive is second, modem is in top 5), but this could pose an issue.

Other than that, if the ram is priced cheap and the performance is unbeatable... then I would jump on the 4 gig version quick as a tick in a new york minute.




GDDR4
By Dactyl on 7/15/2007 2:04:07 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's XBox 360 uses GDDR3 that's attached directly to the motherboard.

If Intel made a special version of their X38 northbridge, they could make a mobo that used 4GB of GDDR4 attached directly to the motherboard.

That would be helluva enthusiast mobo.




SATA ports
By Lord Evermore on 7/16/2007 12:28:12 AM , Rating: 2
Based on the coloration, it looks kind of like there are only 4 internal ports off the ICH9R, with 2 ports internally from the JMicron controller. No other reason for them to have made 2 ports black.




...
By evident on 7/16/2007 2:59:45 PM , Rating: 2
why do i feel like i lose braincells everytime i read these comments




Silenced
By Snipester on 7/18/2007 11:16:08 PM , Rating: 2
Anyways, I've heard from a very reliable source (reseller) that this board could come out to around $250 CAD.




I can see how this helps
By Comdrpopnfresh on 7/13/2007 6:36:57 PM , Rating: 1
I don't see how t-tree reduces the cas timing, but certainly the column addressing and timing- because each chips is pretty much directly connected. I'd like to see a benchmark. I do, however, dislike the idea of only 2 gigs. But then again, the AMD64 took so long to catch on because everyone said that lower clock speeds couldn't possibly equate to a faster processor




deluxe version
By zaki on 7/13/2007 8:51:46 PM , Rating: 1
so will there be a deluxe version with 4gb?




More DOA boards
By Boottothehead on 7/16/2007 4:44:51 PM , Rating: 1
Why would Asus add another layer of possible failure to their already horrible QA process? 3 Motherboards into current build (all dead out of the box) and reading many comments along the same lines. The last thing these guys need to do is further stress their QA team.




"If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else." -- Microsoft Business Group President Jeff Raikes

Related Articles
Intel "Bearlake" Plans Unveiled
October 17, 2006, 1:24 PM













botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki