Print 93 comment(s) - last by Hoser McMoose.. on Jul 13 at 2:47 PM

Honda Odyssey

Honda Pilot

Honda Ridgeline
Honda to introduce a new 3.5 liter V6 diesel by 2010

While many domestic and foreign automakers are looking to hybrid technology to improve fuel efficiency across their auto lines, Honda is looking towards the tried and true: diesel engines.

It was reported last month that the next generation Honda Accord would forgo its slow-selling and poor-performing Accord Hybrid with a diesel variant. The oil-burning Honda Accord will feature a 2.2 liter i-CTDi Tier 2 Bin 5 diesel engine along with an ammonia-filled catalytic converter to reduce NOx emissions.

Honda is also poised to make a new 3.5 liter V6 diesel engine available for its larger vehicles including the Odyssey minivan, Pilot mid-sized SUV and the Ridgeline mid-sized pickup truck. The new Tier 2 Bin 5 diesel will first be available in 2010 according to the Japanese Nikkei newspaper.

The engine is said to be 30 percent more fuel efficient than Honda's current 3.5 liter V6 gasoline engine (rated at 17/24, 15/20 and 15/20 respectively in the Odyssey, Pilot and Ridgeline based on 2008 EPA estimates). The new motor is also said to produce 20 percent less carbon dioxide as the 3.5 liter V6 gasoline engine.

Honda's new diesels likely won't come under as much scrutiny for failure to achieve EPA estimates as has been the case with hybrids. Honda knows this first-hand as it recently became the target of a class-action lawsuit regarding poor fuel economy on the Civic Hybrid.

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RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/2007 12:04:04 PM , Rating: -1
European diesels do meet US standards.

TDI from VW/Audi group does not have particulate emmissions but common rail technologuy allows them to spray fuel into the cylinder as high as 1500bar. That eliminates unburned gas and reduces particulate emissions. On top of that HDI technology from Peugeot has a particulate filter, and exceeds beyon EU standards in CO2 and particulate emissions. It passes also California's emission standards, which is the most strict in US.

In terms of efficiency and being a "clean" engine, EU passed US long time ago.

VW had even a model in early 2000s, called Lupo, a city car, which could to 80MPG. (VW Lupo 3L TDI, 3L stands for 3 liters per 100km ) Now, most diesel engines in compact car category can top 50MPG easily.

RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 12:16:23 PM , Rating: 3
Newer VW/Audi TDI engines only pass new U.S. regulations when they are combined with NOx storage catalyst or urea-based SCR systems.

Volkswagen’s Jetta TDI will manage without a urea injection system by using a NOx-storage catalyst.

Other VW/Audi engines will use BlueTec SCR.

RE: It amuses me
By hubajube on 7/11/2007 12:23:15 PM , Rating: 2
In terms of efficiency and being a "clean" engine, EU passed US long time ago.
Wrong! CARB is STILL the most stringent emissions regulation on the planet. Most diesels can't pass CARB regs and can't be sold in CARB regulated states.

RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/2007 1:00:41 PM , Rating: 1
Yes they do.

The only thing that diesel is not popular in US is:

1.) Because DC and GM cannot produce proper diesel technology and their non-efficient gasoline cars cannot compete with a 50+MPG europen diesel cars

2.) People think that diesels are low powered, dirty engines, which made infamous by GM in 70s and 80s, for the first reason that I pointed out.

RE: It amuses me
By Samus on 7/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 1:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently making up "facts" is also the American way.

[Catalytic converters were] first widely introduced on series-production automobiles in the US market for the 1975 model year to comply with tightening EPA regulations on auto exhaust, catalytic converters are still most commonly used in motor vehicle exhaust systems.

The rest of your post is also crap - what is all that drivel about "lifestyle is much more wasteful..."? If you don't like the U.S., then by all means please move to Europe. That's freedom which truly is "the American way."

RE: It amuses me
By FITCamaro on 7/11/2007 2:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree that recycling programs aren't up to snuff here, the rest of what you say is pure crap.

I don't drive a huge SUV, don't use extremely power hungry tech (how exactly do you classify this when European's use largely the same electronics we do), and try not to waste.

As the above poster said, if you don't like things here and love the way things are in Europe, why do you go there? Another part of the American way is giving you the freedom to leave.

Just because some drive giant SUVs when they don't need them, doesn't mean the general consensus of this country is that is whats best. If I needed an SUV, I'd drive one. But I likely never will, so I won't. Now if I eventually have 4 kids, then I'll consider it.

RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 1:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how that link supports your statement.

Here's a quote for you from that article:

However, the PSA [European] car doesn't meet LEV-2 or EPA Tier 2/Bin 5 emissions limits for nitrogen oxides (NOx). As one California Energy Commission (CEC) official commented to us following the SAE presentations, U.S. EPA calculates that the PSA car "emits NOx at 0.6 grams/mile versus 0.08 g/mi as required in the U.S."

Because DC and GM cannot produce proper diesel technology and their non-efficient gasoline cars cannot compete with a 50+MPG europen diesel cars

Who owns DC? Who owns Opal? Hmmm...

RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/07, Rating: 0
RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 1:39:16 PM , Rating: 2
My point about ownership is that Chrysler is owned (now sold however) by German Daimler-Chrysler (previously Daimler-Benz), and Opal is owned by GM. In the case of Chrysler, obviously the parent company "had the ability to make decent diesels," as is the case with Opal.

So it's not like the U.S. automaker's "can't" make decent diesels - they just haven't yet for the U.S. market because there is pretty low demand. U.S. consumers largely don't want diesels, right or wrong, and it will take some time for that demand to potentially grow. And the tension on the other side is of course the U.S. emissions standards that make diesels more challenging, as discussed elsewhere on this thread.

RE: It amuses me
By Hoser McMoose on 7/11/2007 3:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
It passes also California's emission standards, which is the most strict in US.

There is not a single diesel-engine passenger vehicle of the 2007 (or 2008) model year that has passed California's emission standards. You can find the list of vehicles here:

The only diesel-engine passenger vhielce that passes ANY of the US standards is the Mercedes "Bluetec" E320, but it's sold as a "45-state" vehicle because it didn't meet the emission tests in the 5 states (California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York and Vermont) that go above and beyond the US Federal requirements.

This upcoming Honda engine is a Tier 2, Bin 5 vehicle which means it should pass the California requirements, while Mercedes certainly has plans on fixing their emissions to meet those requirements as well. I don't know about VW/Audi yet though, as of right now ALL of their diesel engines fail on the US Federal requirements, let alone the CARB ones.

In terms of efficiency and being a "clean" engine, EU passed US long time ago.

Sorry but that's just 100% false. The current US Tier 2 standards are most definitely more stringent then the current EU Euro4 standards.

The upcoming Euro5 standards, to be implemented in 2009, should more or less match current US standards.

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