Print 60 comment(s) - last by mindless1.. on Jul 3 at 5:36 PM

Maybe there's an achievement unlocked after having a dozen broken Xbox 360s

We’ve ran a few stories here on DailyTech about our very own Xbox 360’s getting the dreaded Red Ring of Death – the sign of a hardware failure within the console. We know we’re not alone either, as the Xbox 360 seems to be one of the more fragile pieces of electronic kit that we’ve had recent experience with.

Our luck with just a failed Xbox 360 or two is nothing compared to what Justin Lowe has gone through, however, who is currently on his twelfth console. Yes, that’s right, a dozen Xbox 360s. Thankfully for him, his console(s) is under warranty, though that is little consolation for the fact that he’s had to deal with weeks without an Xbox 360 every time it bites the dust.

Lowe shared his story with members of online communities and forums, and now tells his story in a 1UP feature. After his third Xbox 360 broke, Microsoft suggested to Justin that he look into the electrical wiring in his house. Even though Justin’s father is an electrician, he hired a contractor to confirm that all was good in his environment. Microsoft suggested that Justin look into possible electrical problems again after his eighth console.

While some may point to Microsoft’s practice of sending out refurbished consoles as a possible reason why he has gone through such a high number of consoles, Justin was able to get Microsoft to send him brand-new units. Still, same result with the unit, new or old, lasting just a month or two.

Though the tale of Justin and his 11 broken machines may be stuff of legend, the common gamer seems to have no problem amassing a few slain Xbox 360s. More and more evidence points to an abnormally high failure rate of Microsoft’s latest console.

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By psypher on 6/27/2007 6:50:05 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know... at 11 consoles, I think that Microsoft should suggest "User Error" as a reason for them breaking...

RE: hmmm...
By SeanMI on 6/27/2007 7:51:05 AM , Rating: 2
No kidding...maybe someone should explain to him it's not to be operated near water/open flame/etc.

I've owned the same one for a year :)

RE: hmmm...
By anonymo on 6/27/2007 7:56:28 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah I have to assume user error, or this guy has the most uncanny luck ever! Something about the "while his dad is an electrician" really bugs be, I get this mental image of a 360 in a stuffy half finished basement full of saw dust and heat sources.

That or he is just overloading the circuit and not showing it when he hires the contractors to inspect his father's wiring job (that all sounds ridiculous btw).

RE: hmmm...
By Spivonious on 6/27/2007 9:31:32 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, my one uncle is an electrician, and he got the idea of building his own house. Needless to say after 10 years it's still unfinished. Horrible environment for electronic equipment.

RE: hmmm...
By nayy on 6/27/2007 10:19:42 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed, it sounds quite unlikely, but is not impossible.
It' all depends on the failure rate, if you assume a 22% failure rate the chances would be 1 in 17 million for 11 360s falling on you. This is possible given the number of 360 sold
But change to a 15% FR, and the chances would be 1 in a billion.
So according to Microsft’s numbers this guy would be the unluckiest man in the history of time.

RE: hmmm...
By AsicsNow on 6/27/2007 1:27:43 PM , Rating: 2
Especially considering to have 11 consoles in that short of a time period would mean his mean console lifetime is gonna be very low compared to probably even 95% of those who have had a single or even two failures, unless he is running it 24/7 or something.

RE: hmmm...
By dubldwn on 6/27/2007 3:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
But change to a 15% FR, and the chances would be 1 in a billion.

Yeah, but can we agree that a failure rate of 15% is completely ridiculous?

RE: hmmm...
By AsicsNow on 6/28/2007 10:04:50 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, absolutely. I wonder if his area's electrical network is known for especially bad voltage fluctuations. I know the voltage fluctuates pretty wildly everywhere unless you are on a closed circuit with some sort of capacitor system to manage it. (and really only research labs and maybe tech. manufacturing plants commonly have these sort of systems)

RE: hmmm...
By mindless1 on 7/3/2007 5:21:11 PM , Rating: 2
We can expect that other devices on the premises would also have alarmingly high failure rates or at least be malfunctioning onto the point where that problem were obvious, if this were the case.

RE: hmmm...
By Flunk on 6/27/2007 10:27:34 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, some people are just bad at careing for electronics. My best friend and I both bought new computers at the same time a few years ago. He's had 6 motherboards replaced (Including one that literally caught on fire) and 3 new graphics cards. I'm still on the first everything with no issues.

My guess for this guy is that he is doing something stupid like keeping it in a damp place, unventilated storage unit, next to an A/C vent or similar. Or maybe his house just gets a lot of power surges from a faulty transformer. 1-2 months each is so extreme that it really doesn't seem possible that there is not something strange going on here.

RE: hmmm...
By Torched on 6/27/2007 11:04:14 AM , Rating: 5
by psypher on June 27, 2007 at 6:50 AM
I don't know... at 11 consoles, I think that Microsoft should suggest "User Error" as a reason for them breaking...

I deploy and maintain embedded PCs in harsh enviroments. I've also had experience developing switching power supplies. One thing that must be thought out when designing a product is the places people put you product. To say that Microsoft underdesigned for this fact is an understatement.

Why would this poor guy have to get his electricity checked if nothing else he owns is blowing up in his face? It must be said then that his other components in his setup CAN handle the conditions. The XBox simply does not.

If I designed a product that won't work for a client and every time I send him a new(maybe slightly used) unit, it cannot handle the conditions. I may have failed to design my product properly but it may be user error. Now imagine that 10% to 20% of the units I've made come back with the same problem. I can easily deduct that I did not design my product to be robust enough to handle 10% to 20% of the conditions it faces minus 5% for general product defect rate.

When I helped design a switching power supply I not only had to consider heat but also dirty power, power surge, signal noise, and EMI. I also had to test the conditions that my product will face in the real world. If Microsoft tested its product it knows the conditions that it can handle. They know that the product was going to fail at a certain threshold of conditions and DID NOT design to compensate for them. The evidence is everywhere you look.

RE: hmmm...
By masher2 on 6/27/2007 11:57:04 AM , Rating: 1
> "Why would this poor guy have to get his electricity checked if nothing else he owns is blowing up in his face? "

And who says nothing else is? Him? Would he have any reason to stretch the truth? Hmm...

If he's had 11 fail in a row, he's doing something to them. It may not be a problem with the power source, but its certainly something else.

RE: hmmm...
By Torched on 6/27/2007 12:21:33 PM , Rating: 3
It would stand to reason that the odds are against anyone receiving 11 systems in a row that are defective. This is immpossible odds. However if, like you, I assume the product is not defective the odds change.

Say 95% of x360's are identical in manufacture when leaving the factory. 5% have a manufacturing defect. We have to assume he had atleast 1 of the 95%. Lets say 95% of the x360's he owned are working x360s in "normal conditions." Those 95% still failed when presented with the conditions in his home. So, the x360 fails not 5% of the time in his conditions, If fails 100% of the time. Therefore, the x360 cannot withstand the conditions his home.

Is this a failure of Microsofts hardware OR is this a failure of the client? I presented above that Microsoft has failed to manufaucture hardware robust enough to handle his conditions. From a buisness point of view anywhere from 10% to 20% of the units they manufacture cannot withstand the conditions presented to them. This is way above a normal failure rate of defect alone.

The other question being, will a client go to rigorous efforts to change the conditions of his household enviroment to accomodate an underdesigned product?

RE: hmmm...
By masher2 on 6/27/2007 12:53:49 PM , Rating: 1
> "Therefore, the x360 cannot withstand the conditions his home"

It depends on what those 'conditions' are. If they include his trying to mod the machine, an ungrounded house in a lightning-prone area, or some other severe condition, then its certainly not Microsoft's fault.

If I had to guess, I suspect his father is running heavy machinery on the same circuit, putting inductive surges back through the console. Or possibly the house is in a rural area, fed with a single-wire earth return, and has a faulty ground connection. Either of those conditions are hell on sensitive electronics.

RE: hmmm...
By KristopherKubicki on 6/27/2007 1:10:12 PM , Rating: 2
Various forum posts seem to have discerned that placing the machine near an AC register increases the failure rate.

RE: hmmm...
By Torched on 6/27/2007 1:16:35 PM , Rating: 2
Certainly those are all possibilties. Why then is the x360 more sensetive than his TV, PC, or any other device connected to his AC? Most damage from power fluctuations can be prevented with proper circuit design. Certainly a lightning strike would cause such unpreventable failure but ac motor kickbacks are definitely preventable. Also a fully isolated switching power supply would defeat an improper grounding.

Maybe he lives above a geothermal electrostatic anomaly.

RE: hmmm...
By masher2 on 6/27/2007 1:19:24 PM , Rating: 1
> "Why then is the x360 more sensetive than his TV, PC, or any other device"

One possibility is they're on a different circuit. Or he could simply be lying and/or exaggerating about the failure rate and the lack of failures in other equipment.

Or I could be wrong, and the difference of a few degrees from an AC vent (or some other minor anomaly) could be causing this, in which case I'll happily eat my words.

RE: hmmm...
By Torched on 6/27/2007 1:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunatly we will probably never find out. The circumstantial evidence, however, is mounting against Microsoft. I know I would ask for a full refund after the third unit.

RE: hmmm...
By shamgar03 on 6/27/2007 1:54:07 PM , Rating: 3
It is ridiculous to think he would lie about other devices failing. If bookoo devices were failing in his house he would get it checked. Imagine you were living in your house and every electronic device broke, would you really keep sending the devices back to get them replaced. Hmm 2 weeks without a microwave, 5 weeks without a refrigerator, 3 weeks without a TV, 2 weeks * 11 without x boxs. Eventually if thats happening he is going to want to get it fixed, its not THAT much fun to get a new xbox

RE: hmmm...
By masher2 on 6/27/2007 3:43:17 PM , Rating: 1
> "It is ridiculous to think he would lie about other devices failing."

Are you kidding? There is an incredible amount of incentive to fib here. Let me list just a few possible motivations just off the top of my head:

1. The desire for attention and a tiny slice of fame. People all around the world now know this chap's name. That's exposure certain personalities would kill for.

2. He has a grievance, and thinks stretching the point will focus more attention on it, and therefore get it addressed in a more satisfactory manner.

3. General anti-Microsoft bias (it exists in copious quantities, trust me)

> "Hmm 2 weeks without a microwave, 5 weeks without a refrigerator, 3 weeks without a TV"

Err, microwaves and refrigerators are not nearly as sensitive to surges or other power problems as sensitive electronic gear.

RE: hmmm...
By theapparition on 6/28/2007 11:44:33 AM , Rating: 3
Don'f forget the obvious:
I lost, now I'm pissed, and going to kick/hit/throw something factor.

After 11 failures, I find that far more likely than any other external stimulae.

RE: hmmm...
By geddarkstorm on 6/27/2007 4:43:38 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't the article say he had an electrical contractor check everything out and it passed? I'll have to read the 1-up article to find out more though, as it is crazy. But, stranger things have happened, like an old lady in Washington state who won the lottery three times in a row (and she didn't go to the same store for those three times).

RE: hmmm...
By PrimarchLion on 6/28/2007 2:45:20 AM , Rating: 2
Lives near the beach? Too much salt in the air?

RE: hmmm...
By theflux on 6/27/2007 12:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
It is incredible people still try to say this failure rate is user error.

RE: hmmm...
By TheDoc9 on 6/27/2007 12:59:31 PM , Rating: 2
That's because 11 is so outside of the realm of reality that we're drawing the next logical conclusion. That he treats his 360 like a 1985 NES or worse.

Should it be able to handle that kind of stress? Maybe, however common sense tells one that the more complex something is then the more delicate it is, therefor the more you take care of it. Would you treat a PSP like an old original game boy or game gear and expect it to work?

I have a cousin who thinks money grows on trees and treats his xbox 360 like garbage - and it still works! Spilling stuff on it, throwing the controllers around, having it slide off the pile of cd's it's on and it dropping on the floor. It could fail any day but it hasn't.

//hopefully I didn't jinx my own 360 with this post.

RE: hmmm...
By omnicronx on 6/27/2007 1:19:46 PM , Rating: 2
people throw around their consoles these days like they can withstand a hurricane. well sorry people but consoles these days are essentially high performance computers. except for the pcb warping, most broken 360's are just plain user error.

I will never get over how many ps2's i went through (5, and i only ever used my first one as my dvd player as i suspected this was causing the errors).

i wont lie, i broke my 360 and i wont blame ms.. i moved my console around with a game in it and accidentally gave it a good smack on the wall, now my dvd drive spins the discs off the tray while playing and scratches my disks.

heck it wouldnt surprise me if the ps3 started having problems when people start really using the bd players.

RE: hmmm...
By Hemipower on 6/27/2007 2:52:50 PM , Rating: 2
So the 5 ps2's you went through were due to your "plain user error" huh?

It is rediculis to think that these faulty systems are "plain user error". Just because you have had luck with your one 360 doesn't mean other people will too.

I have owned every system except for the neo geo and jaguar, sega cd, and psp. Out of all my sytems the only ones to ever break were the new silver ps2 (i still have my original launch ps2 and it works flawless, including dvd's), and my 360. I have the ps3 and I play games and BD on it, I also have the wii.

I move the ps3 around as much as I move around the 360, from one room to the other on. If you tell me moving the console around is user error, than your a retard! Anyways my ps3 is still working and thats that i leave it on with the folding client running a lot longer than the 360. My current 360 is running strong right now so I hope it keeps on working.

By WayneG on 6/27/2007 8:38:50 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously I have had my 360 since launch and it's not ever had a problem and it's not exactly in the coolest of places but it is surge protected. I can leave it on playing games and it'll be fine when I get back and I can play for hours on end and it's fine. One really wonders what you must do in order to fubar that many consoles!

RE: Okay...
By AmbroseAthan on 6/27/2007 9:14:12 AM , Rating: 2
I'm in the same boat as the OP. I have had my console since launch day and have yet to have a problem. Really makes me wonder what is causing some of the problems I keep hearing about (and I put my 360 through its paces with some extended Oblivion/Dead or Alive 4/Halo 2 Marathons).

In this case, I find it hard to believe the kids luck is that bad; is he trying to keep his console on like a 45 degree angle?

RE: Okay...
By Eurasianman on 6/27/2007 9:20:22 AM , Rating: 2
Yea, I got my console on launch day (only had to wait 2 hours... gotta love Costco). Well, 3 months later, RROD, but that was because of the location and my g/f played it for nearly 4 hours straight. Since then, I moved the 360 to a more open space and no problems up to this day.

My brother still has the original 360 from launch as well and he hasn't had any issues of whatsoever.... however, he did buy the external cooler that you attach to the back of it.


You'd think that the kid would just quit after the 6th one and save his money for something else. I love XBOX 360 as much as the next person, but if I had that many issues, I'd wait for a new revision (and I'm not talking about the Elite version either).

RE: Okay...
By jacarte8 on 6/27/2007 9:29:58 AM , Rating: 2
I also have one 360 from launch, another in my bedroom over a year old now, and my brother has one... no bad boxes in my family.

No one at work here has heard of anything like this either... another 10-12 360s...

RE: Okay...
By Hemipower on 6/27/2007 3:01:43 PM , Rating: 2
Even to me 11 is a little extreme. I am on like my 5th 360. For every story I hear, that they have had their 360 from launch and all their friends as well, I hear a story of how someone is on their 3rd 360 and all their friends have had at least one replacement.

I personally have only have one friend with the original launch 360, all the other poeple I know have had at least 1 replacement, for all sorts of reasons.

I think its harder for me to believe (based on my experience) that you people don't know ANYONE with at least 1 replacement.

RE: Okay...
By Devo2007 on 6/28/2007 1:29:27 AM , Rating: 2
Do remember that you'll hear a far greater number of people reporting problems, then you will of those who've had flawless systems.

RE: Okay...
By HardwareD00d on 6/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: Okay...
By Hotdogah on 6/29/2007 3:18:51 AM , Rating: 2
My xbox was manuf. November 17 2005 according to the sticker inside. I started to get the RROD in december after playing to the forth quarter of my EA ESPN college football game. It did this for a week and then the small signal board on my tv went out and needed a $900 dollar repair. I decided to take the xbox apart to see what the problem was. The Heatsink was covered in hair/lint and it has existed in a fairly clean enviroment. After cleaning it out it has not had a problem since. I worry about my philips tv breaking again but I got a custom case for my xbox now and have a case window so now I can see when the heatsink is plugged up. My Xbox has Uber heavy use as it is used for A MCE, HD-DVD player and game system alon with frequent purchases from live for movies/tv episodes. I dont know what this guy is doing as I have mine in a room with a swamp cooler, its on a completely overloaded circut, and its in an enclosed area above my 700w sony surround reciever.

New XBox electrical service Requirements
By ancient46 on 6/27/2007 9:51:24 AM , Rating: 2
Run a dedicated electric line from the panel to the XBox. Install a saturated magnetic isolation transformer, a 1 billion joule surge protector, a choke to eliminate frequencies above 100 HZ, and a UPS system.

Probably won't help but it is the best you could do to eliminate power line problems.

RE: New XBox electrical service Requirements
By marvdmartian on 6/27/2007 10:20:58 AM , Rating: 2
Hmmmm.....might be a bit of overkill, no?

This kid just needs to plug into a quality UPS (uninterruptible power supply), which will also act as a line conditioner. Should take care of any power problems he might have.

Honestly, at this point, Microsoft would do best to just have him send in his console, and mail him a check for the price he initially paid for it, along with a letter stating that he's receiving a full refund, and will no longer be allowed to trade in the units he breaks for new/refurb'd units. Losing this one kid's business will be cheaper in the long run, than continually replacing the consoles!

By jacarte8 on 6/27/2007 10:30:41 AM , Rating: 2
Or how about the kid just buys a nice quality line conditioner? Monster sells them with one port for only $30 or $40 from Newegg.

By Hemipower on 6/27/2007 3:09:01 PM , Rating: 2
I am not very up to date with consumer rights and violations but to me that seems illegal. If the kid likes the 360, he as a consumer, has the right to return as many defective units as he wants until he gets a fully working one.

The only thing I can see microsoft doing, is investigating the kid and getting undisputable evidence that the kid is at fault in the breaking of the consoles and than they can decline his warranty. Other than that i don't see how they can legally keep this kid from owning a 360.

By OxBow on 6/28/2007 2:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
Overkill for a game console, but actually, that's exactly what I did for my old plotter.

Of course, I paid $12k for that, so a dedicated circuit, suppressor & conditioner were chump change in comparison. It's actually not that hard to do. I have a dedicated circuit for my entertainment center, as well as a line conditioner and surge suppressor. That didn't stop my 360 from dying (cheap Toshiba DVD drive).

While people are postulating that with a 5%, 15% or 20% failure rate the odds of 11 units dying is not possible, my guese, rather than blaming the user, would be to look at a higher failure rate. Of the people who I know that have 360s, all of us have had to send ours in for service. From that sample, the failure rate is much higher than 5%, it's 100%. A lot of people post that they haven't had trouble. That's fine, but I'd be guesing, from the reports I've seen, that the actual failure rate is in the 35%-50% range. At that range, the chances of seeing 11 fail in a row are pretty good.

Microsoft has been pretty proactive in upgrading and servicing these units. While they aren't releasing any numbers on returns, etc. for obvious reasons, it's pretty clear that there are a couple very serious defects with the console. We also do not know what is causing all the RRoDs. Some are soldering problems, some are drive problems, some are power supply problems, etc. If Microsoft is having 5% failure rates on seven different subsystems, they could easily be coming up with a 35% failure rate. At that point there's only one thing to say.

It sucks to be you.

By BMFPitt on 6/27/2007 12:53:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, maybe this is a conspiracy between Microsoft and Monster Cables to get you to buy their "clean power" surge protectors.

By MeTaedet on 6/27/2007 8:17:04 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, article discussions - even some whose associated articles aren't about the XBox 360 or PS3 - very often deteriorate into a discussion as to which system is better than the other - usually a one-sided discussion that favours the XBox 360. I will play the devil's advocate, then, and speak against the XBox 360 (but not necessarily in favour of the PS3).

I think everyone here is grasping at straws in an attempt to save the XBox 360's reputation by pinning the problem on the user. Let's review the absurdity of that:

If this guy had had his television failing, or any other sensitive electronic device, as well, he would likely have imputed the problem of consistent failure of the Xbox 360s to electrical problems or some environmental factor and would have solved that problem first, whatever it should have been, before sending out for yet another XBox 360. If that had been the case, there would be no story. So, this - the fact that no other device has failed - can mean several things: a) that the rate of production of faulty Xbox 360's is higher than Microsoft states b) that the Xbox 360 is not a robust machine that can operate under a sufficiently wide variety of environmental conditions or c) that this guy has purposely broken all of them, and has done so in such a way that his tampering should be concealed from the repair technicians (which in my mind is pointless and unlikely).

So, to rephrase things: If the Xbox 360 is failing because it is a sensitive piece of equipment and is being operated under improper conditions that don't accommodate for that sensitivity, then why hasn't, say, his television, a sensitive piece of equipment, which is presumably operated in the same room as his XBox 360, failed, as well? The most likely explanation in my mind is that the XBox 360 simply hasn't been designed to withstand what other, more stalwart, but similarly complex devices, have been designed to withstand.

RE: Sigh...
By theapparition on 6/28/2007 12:05:07 PM , Rating: 2
You make a good point but forget one crucial bit of information. We don't have any idea how he treated his units. Was he beating on them? Stick them in a closed cabinet? Or any other number of user handling issues?

We just don't know. However, having 11 fail in a row, seems statistically out of order. It's absolutely possible, but I'd be skeptical of his claims.

Similar problem with a TV.
By Mitch101 on 6/27/2007 11:15:53 AM , Rating: 1
I had a similar problem with a TV in that every couple of weeks it would break (Power Supply parts typically) it was measured several times and found to be perfectly fine. It also had a high quality surge protector on it. And was replaced by a different surge protector when the problem occured again. It wasnt until I noticed that when the air conditioning unit turned on the TV power supply died. When it was fixed again the next time it went out I noticed again the air conditioning kicked on when the problem occured. I found the cause of death.

BTW This was a central air conditioned home not a plug in the wall type.

Needless to say the company repaired the unit again and I plugged it in another area of the house and never had the problem again. Cheaper than an electrician since we were renting anyhow.

Because the line tested fine doesnt mean the line is good all the time. I think he should at least put the unit in an entirely different environment because at console 12 I dont think he is that unlucky.

I was also the type of kid who got aggrivated in games and would hit my console. Im sure the 360 is less tolerant to a blow than the Atari 2600 was. Maybe he gets ticked at the game and gives his console a decent whack. Not enough to leave a mark but enough that eventually the console solder joint give way.

RE: Similar problem with a TV.
By mindless1 on 7/3/2007 5:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
That's more likely a TV power supply design flaw, not an AC line problem. However, it is a bit strange that you didn't have a separate circuit for the central air, or if it was on a separate circuit, all the more damning of the TV that it couldn't handle that.

By deeznuts on 6/27/2007 1:37:10 PM , Rating: 3
Does MS send brand new 360's for warranty service? I don't have one so I can't comment, but what I've read on other forums is that they send refurbished units, units that most likely have already been broken/repaired.

If so, then calculating the odd's of him getting 11 broken machines is a bit harder. You'd have to figure out the failure rate of refurbed machines, which is higher.

Go read the article, it was verified on the phone that he has had in fact been sent 11 broken machines. Several DOA.

By Kougar on 6/27/2007 8:06:51 AM , Rating: 2
Some people do this to PCs, even PCs with GOOD hardware in them and built properly. I'd want to know the failure rate of other electronics within that household before I'd give stories of people burning through a dozen of X equipment any serious credibility. Or if the poor chap might've been keen on "helping" a few of those consoles along in their already short lifespan on this planet. :P

I liked the one true story were a person burned up three XFX XXX Edition 8800's before realizing that the waterblock was defective and not making proper contact with the cores to cool them.

User error
By Crusader on 6/27/2007 8:43:48 AM , Rating: 2
This case = user error.
MS can see what's wrong or damaging the console.

It's the boy.

Do the math!
By FeralMisanthrope on 6/27/2007 10:42:12 AM , Rating: 2
I recently read somewhere (probably DT) that the Xbox 360's failure rate could be as high as 30%. Assuming this is true, the odds bricking 11 consoles would be 0.3^11 or 1:564503 . In this scenario, Justin would be in the same boat as about 9 other people.

Now lets assume that Just has bricked more 360s than anyone else. Given that MS has sold about five and a half million 360s, we can calculate the failure rate to be 5500000^(-1/11) or 24.4% - a fairly reasonable number considering what is known about the 360's failure rate.

Justin may be a statistical outlier but his situation seems well within the realm of possibility, even under normal circumstances.

By masa77 on 6/27/2007 11:05:22 AM , Rating: 2
I've had three defective units myself.

The third one they sent me had a defective fan that sounded like a hoover vacuum trying to suck up the cat. When I spoke to their support department I ended up getting escalated to a manager, who did nothing but tell me that it was normal for the 360 to sound like a car without a muffler. The guy was a complete ass.

On top of the defective units, the horrific customer service I received ranks among the worst customer service experiences I've ever had.

By sobad on 6/27/2007 12:37:30 PM , Rating: 2
I got my 360 release day, and have had it in Iraq for 2 years straight. Between crappy power, baby powder sand/dust, and just being used and abused for 2 years it still runs like a champ. I almost wish the bastard would die so I can justify purchasing an elite.

Long story short, this guy must be doing something to his 360.

7 out of 14
By TomCorelis on 6/27/2007 1:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
FiringSquad forums recently had a Xbox 360 thread where everyone reported the status of their 360 ownership. Last I checked, there were 13 unique responses and 1 questionable. 7 of them had reported a dead console at some point.

I bought mine secondhand with a manufacturer date of Dec 2005... I'm scared... :-)

What do people do...
By The Sword 88 on 6/27/2007 2:25:52 PM , Rating: 2 their 360's!?!

I bought mine on launch day and guess what it still works perfectly fine and I live in Texas so its hot. I dont use my AC(I am cheap) so its like 80-90 degrees in my apartment and still my 360 works like a chamo. I keep it off the floor, keep it well ventilated and also wipe off the dust once a month or so.

Yeah you might lose one 360 but more than three and it has to be user error.

I think a lot of the people killing their 360s just blame MS instead of realizing they dont take care of their console.

My roomate leaves his PS3 on the floor and never cleans it and guess what, it has trouble with sometimes! Does that mean Sony makes bad consoles? No it means my roommate is an idiot.

Stepped Or Squared Sine Waves?
By VooDooAddict on 6/27/2007 7:21:15 PM , Rating: 2
It happens ... I'm about to go pickup my 7th Treo 600 smartphone from warranty replacements. 5 have died for the same faulty radio bug. Only the latest one had a different failure (touch screen died). Honestly, I don't doubt that this guy could have seen that many failures.

Like others though, I'm very curious about the power. You would think a nice Auto Voltage Regulation UPS would have been employed at some point to simply rule out power. Then again I wonder how the XBOX AC addapter handles various types of Sine waves (Pure / Stepped / Squared)

Lemon laws?
By ninjit on 6/27/2007 8:42:33 PM , Rating: 2
Do lemon laws apply (easily) to electronics?

I know about them with respect to cars, and the few warranty registration cards that I've actually bothered to read often state something about the agreement not replacing any rights you have have within your home state. etc. etc.
But I've personally never had to deal with electronics warranty issues (knock-on wood), that's partly because my penchant to by stuff that's at least one generation old (for cost and reliability reasons) vs. the latest and greatest.

Read the 1up article
By DragonMaster0 on 6/28/2007 12:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
Only 3 of them got the RRoD.

Can 3 of them having optical drive reading problem really be associated to crappy mains? These can run on generic case PSUs without problems.

One exploded, and the others had video and audio problems.

His PS3 is OK.

Could shipping be a problem, or do they all come from the same factory?

Is shipping the problem? I remember receiving Purolator boxes with shoe marks on them, falling apart boxes with UPS, or Canada Post employees that are barely able to lift 30lbs boxes, I almost have to get the box myself in the truck or from behind the counter sometimes.

I do believe his story, since absolutely EVERYTHING I buy (apart from computer parts - strangely) end up having at least one problem, it can be used "working" stuff from eBay, or new things.

By InsaneGain on 6/28/2007 1:53:05 PM , Rating: 2

I think it is possible there is a high motherboard failure rate for the XBox 360 but understandably Microsoft wants to keep this problem hidden until they can figure out how to correct it.

11 consoles?
By djkrypplephite on 6/27/2007 10:32:20 AM , Rating: 1
11 consoles? come on. i've had th very same one i bought THE DAY IT CAME OUT, with constant usage and I've never had ANY problems with it. no red ring, no power supply overheating, nothing. some of you guys just got some shitty boxes or something, or maybe im just lucky. this stuff is getting ridiculous.

DAMN ! MY PS3 Still works ! even ..
By chick0n on 6/27/07, Rating: -1
By jacarte8 on 6/27/2007 9:41:10 AM , Rating: 2
haha, awesome... thanks for the chuckle.

True story: My apartment in college went through 3 PS2s over 2 years, thanks to disk-scratching. I also killed 2 Xboxes (out of 15 or so) due to bad mod-chip soldering (I'm retarted).


"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997

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