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PS3 significantly helping European Blu-ray Disc cause

The Sony PlayStation 3 isn’t only a powerful piece of gaming hardware; it’s also one of the best Blu-ray Disc players currently on the market. PlayStation 3 owners are well of this fact, and may likely be using the console as a part-time HD movie player.

Following the North American release of the PS3 in November 2006, Blu-ray movie sales surged significantly – making up for ground lost to the more economical HD DVD standard. A similar trend is now occurring in Western Europe, where the PlayStation 3 launched on March 23.

According to data from the Blu-ray Disc Association, as cited by Pocket-lint, HD DVD comfortably outsold Blu-ray Disc up until the launch of the PS3. In the week immediately after the console’s European launch, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales, and not since trailed HD DVD sales.

Recent weekly figures from Europe put Blu-ray sales three times greater than that of HD DVD, with the now-leading format accounting for 64 percent of the total volume in 2007. The quick turn of the tide, however, reflects how easily it is to sway favor in a still relatively small niche market.

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There is no format war
By Proteusza on 5/29/2007 9:14:23 AM , Rating: 2
This whole format war thing is a farce. It is a non issue.

The reason I say this? The cheapest way to be able to playback either format, at least in the UK, is to buy a 360 with the HD addon, or a PS3. You cant get BD or HD readers for PC, only burners, which cost twice what they do in the US. Blu ray players for TV's cost more than a PS3.

I'd be surprised if the adoption rate is higher than that of the PhysX addon card even among hardcore gamers. Its price simply makes it not an option for the majority of people who want to watch movies at home.




RE: There is no format war
By FITCamaro on 5/29/2007 9:41:42 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Honestly, with how soon movies are put out on DVD/HD today, its cheaper to just watch it on an HD premium channel 2-3 months after the movie comes out. I'll wait until the players are down to $100 and the media is the same price as DVDs.


RE: There is no format war
By h0kiez on 5/29/2007 9:49:55 AM , Rating: 1
No it's not. Assuming you already have a 360, buying the add-on is the cheapest way to get HD, but for those that don't, it's not. You can get the Toshiba HD-A2 (2nd gen, well-reviewed) for much less. It was $237 on Amazon all weekend, plus the 5 free movies that Toshiba is offering.


RE: There is no format war
By Xavian on 5/29/2007 10:06:13 AM , Rating: 2
Did you not notice "In the UK" in his statement?


RE: There is no format war
By mars777 on 5/29/07, Rating: 0
RE: There is no format war
By Chaser on 5/29/2007 12:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For most americans only america exists... or matters. Sad but true.


And presumptuousness comes from where?


RE: There is no format war
By FITCamaro on 5/29/2007 12:09:42 PM , Rating: 1
No. Just a lot of us "ignorant" Americans are just a bit sick of Europe. I know I am. Especially the EU.


RE: There is no format war
By Rollomite on 5/29/2007 1:01:57 PM , Rating: 1
That's because, as you've proven in previous posts, you're a racist.


RE: There is no format war
By bubbacub616 on 5/29/2007 8:21:41 PM , Rating: 4
Why are you sick of the EU?

Whats it done to you?


RE: There is no format war
By DocDraken on 5/29/2007 2:13:42 PM , Rating: 5
By modding his post down and "FitCamaro"'s post up you're actually proving Mars777 right...


RE: There is no format war
By h0kiez on 5/29/2007 11:10:29 AM , Rating: 4
Actually, I didn't, but I'm not sure that matters. Looking at Amazon.co.uk, the same pricing holds. The HD-A2 is 231 pounds, the XBox 360 (the core for argument's sake) is 190 pounds, and the HD DVD addon is $110 pounds, or roughly 300 for the combo. Unless there's somewhere to get the 360 much cheaper, and nowhere to get a discount on the HD-A2, my argument holds.

As for those that think that Americans think nothing outside of the US exists, you're just retarded. This is a site that ends in ".com" which unless I'm mistaken is by percentage an almost entirely American domain. I should start going to websites that end in ".eu" and complain about their non-America-centric points of view...that'd be fun.


RE: There is no format war
By Xavian on 5/29/2007 11:36:04 AM , Rating: 1
£237 is over double what the it costs in the US and you are saying HD is "cheap"?

HD in the UK is too expensive to be worth considering right now. That was the point of his post in the first place.

.com is not .us, .com if you really want to get into it, means .commercial as in commercial business. .com isn't a US domain, its a worldwide domain.


RE: There is no format war
By h0kiez on 5/29/2007 3:52:04 PM , Rating: 4
Wow...I just don't even know where to begin dissecting how wrong you are.

1) $237 was dollars...not pounds, and referred to American pricing, not UK. Once someone pointed out that he was talking about the UK, I edited the pricing...which was 231 pounds...which I then compared to the cost of a 360 (190) + HD DVD add-on (110) = 300 pounds. I was simply refuting his statement that an Xbox combo was the cheapest way in the UK to get HD DVD. I don't live there, so I could be incorrect, but when amazon has a 2nd gen HD DVD player for 231 and the Xbox combo for 300ish, you're gonna have to provide some evidence to support that. Ready...go!

Next, "and you are saying HD is "cheap"?

I didn't. Never used the word cheap. you completely made that up. Thanks for playing.

".com is not .us, .com if you really want to get into it, means .commercial"

Thanks for explaining to this businessman what .com means. For the record, I knew that. And no, I didn't think the letters .com were an acronym somehow pulled from "The United States of America". Again, if you actually read my post with your brain switched on, what I was saying is that the vast majority of .com names are registered and run by American companies and people living in America. While I could register a .eu domain and run it from the states, it would still be reasonable for people in Europe to assume that it was most likely registered and run from within Europe.

Also, unless exchange rates has changed dramatically from the last time I saw them (~1.8 dollars per pound), 237 pounds (or 231 which it actually is...your typo) is not more than double what it costs here: $237 on a holiday deal, or $299 currently.

Feel free to refute any of this, but can you stick a bit more to topic this time?


RE: There is no format war
By afkrotch on 5/30/2007 12:35:12 AM , Rating: 2
It's a completely different country. Don't try to match prices with the states from a different country.

For UK, it's normal pricing. Shoot, a new dvd there will cost you a little over 20 quid. Is that expensive? For an American it is. For a Brit, it's standard pricing.

Everything is like that there. They numbers match the states, but after conversion, it's expensive for an American. Like a Honda Civic there can cost you 16,000 pounds. In the US, you can buy a BMW for that price.

I've lived 18 years of my life in the US. I lived 3 years of my life in Burwell, Cambridgeshire UK.

I always hate when someone brings in the argument of "ZOMG, that's double the price in the US."

Here's something for ya. Someone at McDonalds in the UK can make 10 pounds an hour. ZOMG!


RE: There is no format war
By Proteusza on 5/29/2007 11:58:58 AM , Rating: 3
Thats pretty ironc, .com isnt an american domain at all, and by assuming it is you proved our point. Thank you.

Even so, thats double the US price, for no good reason, and about triple what most people would pay. I dont know why electronic things are so expensive in the UK, we seem to get the raw end of the deal.

I would really consider a BD player for my next HTPC, if there were more than just burners available, which cost as much as the pc itself.


RE: There is no format war
By Timeless on 5/29/2007 2:54:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I dont know why electronic things are so expensive in the UK, we seem to get the raw end of the deal.


I thought that most European countries get taxed more than the US. If that is true, isn't that the reason that your prices are so high? Isn't that also the reason that you guys in Europe get a higher living standard than the people living in the US. I live in the US, so I have no clue why you guys get it so rough. It's just my guess.


RE: There is no format war
By bubbacub616 on 5/29/2007 8:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
Wealth is more evenly distributed across socioeconomic classes in Europe (and to a lesser extent the UK)- hence electronic companies can generally get away with premiums on their goods.

Whilst tax is higher in the UK/europe the price increase is much larger then the 17.5 vat + import duty.

Every so often the government/media can intervene to sort out ridiculous discrepancies - e.g. 3-4 years ago car prices in the UK were over 10-15% higher than elsewhere (and that's taking into account the cost of implementing right hand drive).


RE: There is no format war
By afkrotch on 5/30/2007 12:52:30 AM , Rating: 2
You're stupid and should stop talking. Everything in the UK is almost double the price of the states. They also make almost double the income we make in the states also.

You ever think of that?

Also how dumb are you guys? Blu-ray burners also read blu-ray discs. All you need is software to play blu-ray movies. Which they provide to you, when you buy a blu-ray burner.

Does a DVD burner only burn dvds? No, it reads them too. With the software, you can playback all forms of dvds, that the drive supports. Most now support all forms, including DVD-RAM.


RE: There is no format war
By Proteusza on 5/31/2007 9:33:32 AM , Rating: 2
Wow someone got the short end of the evolution stick.

Yes burners can also read, you must be quite the genius.

However, they also cost £600 - the same as a new PC, including screen. Or the same price as a fairly good HDTV. So, we are still left with a problem - a blu ray burner costs £600, while a normal burner costs £20. Why then, would I bother, if all I wanted a burner for is to play movies?

Please stop with the accusations of stupidity, when you are abundant in it yourself.


RE: There is no format war
By StevoLincolnite on 5/29/2007 12:08:28 PM , Rating: 2
No one actually owns the Internet, and no single person or organization controls the Internet in its entirety. More of a concept than an actual tangible entity, the Internet relies on a physical infrastructure that connects networks to other networks. There are many organizations, corporations, governments, schools, private citizens and service providers that all own pieces of the infrastructure, but there is no one body that owns it all. There are, however, organizations that oversee and standardize what happens on the Internet and assign IP addresses and domain names, such as the National Science Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, ICANN, InterNIC and the Internet Architecture Board.

Thanks for proving the point that most Americans, believe that they are the only people that matter.


RE: There is no format war
By Lightning III on 5/29/07, Rating: -1
RE: There is no format war
By DocDraken on 5/29/2007 2:11:50 PM , Rating: 2
I'd rather be "outbred by muslims" than be an inbred redneck who apparently is less skilled at writing his native language than all the "foreigners" in this thread...


RE: There is no format war
By Proteusza on 5/29/2007 3:08:31 PM , Rating: 2
Well said.


RE: There is no format war
By masher2 (blog) on 5/29/2007 1:44:46 PM , Rating: 4
> "Thanks for proving the point that most Americans, believe that they are the only people that matter..."

You believe the viewpoint of one random person adequately represents the totality of the American people? Your statement is even more egregiously parochial than was his.


RE: There is no format war
By ninjit on 5/29/2007 2:09:48 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Your statement is even more egregiously parochial than was his


Ooh, me likes them big words...


RE: There is no format war
By StevoLincolnite on 5/30/2007 12:40:55 AM , Rating: 3
Of course not, but its not just his viewpoint its several others.


RE: There is no format war
By Chaser on 5/30/2007 4:47:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thanks for proving the point that most Americans, believe that they are the only people that matter.

Yes "Most Americans" should look towards most Europeans as they so deeply and sincerely hold other countries and nations in their thoughts and hearts as they go about their daily lives.


RE: There is no format war
By MADAOO7 on 5/29/2007 11:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think it is worth mentioning that the HD-A2 only goes up to 1080i, whereas the Xbox 360 HD player goes up to a full 1080p, making the whole argument erroneous considering that they both have completely different abilities.


RE: There is no format war
By theapparition on 5/30/2007 7:37:50 AM , Rating: 2
The 1080i/1080p debate is pointless. Any 1080i stream will be upconverted on the TV to 1080p with almost no loss of picture quality. And, I may be mistaken but the only way to get HD out of the X-box (non-elite) is through component. And since virtually no TV allows 1080p input on component, your going to get 1080i.


RE: There is no format war
By Boushh on 5/29/2007 10:41:42 AM , Rating: 2
With upcomming release like Star Wars, Spiderman 3, Pirates 3 and Shrek 3 only being available on Blu-Ray, I think there soon will be no format war anywhere at all, even not America.

I realy think that content will be the reason why one format will win over the other. And it seems that you will be able to get all the new and hot titles on Blu-Ray but not on HD-DVD.

But if you realy don't know, I saw an LG Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player priced Euro 999,- at the local Media Markt (in the Netherlands, best comparible with Best Buy I think). Which would give you the ability to play all formats...


RE: There is no format war
By Proteusza on 5/29/2007 10:49:29 AM , Rating: 2
They could have all my most favourite movies ever released, for £1 each, but that wont make the cost of entry into the market acceptable.

£600 for a HD DVD when I can get a PS3 + games + BD movies for cheaper? Still more than I want to spend, but it means myself and many others like me arent even considering it.


RE: There is no format war
By h0kiez on 5/29/2007 11:12:26 AM , Rating: 1
Again, please explain to me why you can't get a 360 and the add-on for 300ish pounds from Amazon...assuming you can't find a better deal?


RE: There is no format war
By jadedeath on 5/29/2007 12:03:56 PM , Rating: 1
Because obviously the rest of the world doesn't want HD with it's limited selection when they can get Blu-Ray with a much wider selection.

Logan


RE: There is no format war
By Lightning III on 5/29/2007 1:31:43 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry Have to go with cost.

As the 200$ hd dvd stand alone players hit walmart this summer watch things swing the other way

enjoy your betamax I mean Blu ray

although personally the combo player would be the best choice now

regards


RE: There is no format war
By Timeless on 5/29/2007 2:48:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As the 200$ hd dvd stand alone players hit walmart this summer watch things swing the other way


When did this happen? They finally came out with a sub-$300 player? Sources, anyone?


RE: There is no format war
By walk2k on 5/29/2007 5:11:43 PM , Rating: 3
That was just a rumor that was later refuted.

I don't know why everyone thinks HD-DVD is automatically cheaper. Nothing about Blu-ray hardware makes it significantly more expensive to produce than HD-DVD.

If Wal-mart started selling cheapass HD-DVD players for $200 and Blu-ray thought that was what is needed to 'win the war' they could do the same thing. In the end it will always come down to CONTENT. I don't care how many cheap chinese crap HD-DVD players you crank out, you won't be able to sell them for $200, or $100 or hell $5 if Joe Sixpack can't play i.e. DISNEY movies on it.


RE: There is no format war
By jadedeath on 5/30/2007 12:50:49 AM , Rating: 2
Completely true, I mean it costs a couple mill {the 10-20 range} to make a Blu-Ray factory, something that multi-billion dollar companies like Sony and Panasonic don't have a problem shelling out, I mean when you consider the end result 10-20 million at the beginning doesn't mean anything. Once you've had that factory up and running for a few years you've made back your money 10 fold.

If anything the consumer is looking at the war and saying "If HD is cheaper to make, why are they more expensive to buy?" and they think they're getting screwed. In the HD on one side the DVD on the other side, HD is making a critical error by planning for people who might-eventually-get-an-HD-player, as opposed to the Blu-Ray camp that says "if you have a Blu-Ray buy this, if not then please buy a Blu-Ray player" which makes the most sense?

Logan


RE: There is no format war
By afkrotch on 5/30/2007 1:00:31 AM , Rating: 2
Or you can use existing DVD factories to produce HD-DVD and don't have to bother making your money back. Instead you make your money right away.

Course I am for neither format. I'd lean more towards blu-ray, simply cause I have a PS3 and my Xbox 360 doesn't have the HD-DVD add-on. Course, I don't even have an HDTV, so I wouldn't bother with either of them.

Internet is here and many h.264 videos are coming out. Good enough for my eyes.


RE: There is no format war
By jadedeath on 5/30/2007 11:30:10 AM , Rating: 2
Except the customer in HD is getting screwed, pure and simple.

If HD-DVD's are SO amazingly cheaper to make, then why are they the same price {if not higher for the combo ones} than Blu-Ray movies?

Sure you make your money right away, and since it's a little more money per disk than Blu-Ray, you have to ask yourself why aren't they trying to undercut Blu-Ray's price if they're so easier and cheaper to make?

Logan


RE: There is no format war
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:27:57 AM , Rating: 2
HDDVD players are under $300 right now.

Go look at I dont know, amazon.com, Best Buy.com, you know, off the wall places like that.

In fact Amazon was selling the Tosh player new for $237 the other day. Now they're sold out though. Through resellers they're still at $299 though.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player/...

Many report Costco's and Sam's clubs have them in brick and mortar's for $249 or a bit less.


RE: There is no format war
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:48:30 AM , Rating: 2
The talk of cheap "funai" players missed the point..name brand quality Toshiba HDDVD players are there NOW. Under $300 has been shattered and under $200 probably isn't far behind.

How can Blu Ray possibly compete?


RE: There is no format war
By jadedeath on 5/30/2007 12:43:03 AM , Rating: 2
$200 bucks for a doorstop is still $200 bucks in my estimation.

The main argument that the Xbox360 folks have for the PS3 is that there are no quality games for it, so why would you shell out $600 for it when you can have a 360? To play Blu-Ray movies on it. The sales figures seem to be proving that particular point.

Studies have shown that people don't just want one thing that does "X" they want one thing that does "X" "Y" "Z" and sometimes "ABC"

People given the option and demonstrated abilities {provided they're not complete cheapskates} will pay for quality rather than quantity.

This example is proven by HD-DVD doing something really stupid by making the DVD on one side HD on the other combo disks, people look at that and think that HD is more expensive than Blu-Ray and shell out more for the player so they can get the cheaper disks in the end.

Personally I'll pay more for the player if it means that I'm going to get cheaper movies.

Logan


RE: There is no format war
By frobizzle on 5/29/2007 8:46:55 PM , Rating: 1
Um...did anyone even notice...
quote:
According to data from the Blu-ray Disc Association ...

Taking this report at face value is a little like Microsoft touting the (alleged) runaway sales of Vista. Could we please get some sort of independent corroboration of these reports before considering them as canon?


RE: There is no format war
By walk2k on 5/29/2007 2:16:21 PM , Rating: 3
The fat lady isn't singing, but she is putting on her makeup.


RE: There is no format war
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:43:49 AM , Rating: 1
That's correct. Blu_Ray is about done for.

Go read AVS forums and tell me Blu_Ray isn'y on life support. The fat lady is clearing her throat..


Interesting
By techfuzz on 5/29/2007 8:57:37 AM , Rating: 3
As someone who doesn't own either HD or BR (and probably won't for quite some time), it's interesting to sit back and watch these two standards duke it out with each other for as long as they have. One day you see that the BR camp is ahead here, the next HD is ahead there. A lot of what they say may be propaganda but it is entertaining!




RE: Interesting
By dice1111 on 5/29/2007 9:41:38 AM , Rating: 2
My take on the whole thing is that it resembles the DVD+R and DVD-R standards war for burners, but with just a little more at stake. I'm just going ot wait for burners/players that use both standards (I believe one will be out soon or is in the works), and win either way.


RE: Interesting
By arazok on 5/29/2007 9:57:58 AM , Rating: 3
If we end if with a dual format standard, you don't win. All players/burners will become dual players, any you will pay royalties to both camps. Blank disks will cost more because manufacturers won't get to reap the benefits of mass production it it's fullest. Ultimately, everything will cost more. The only winners here are the businesses behind both standards.


RE: Interesting
By microAmp on 5/29/2007 10:29:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm like dice1111, I'm just waiting for a player to play both formats for under $300; I'll just be waiting a long time. :)

If one person to choose HD-DVD and it loses, they have to fork over more money for a Blu-ray player to continue watching HD movies, maybe even replace their HD-DVD movies.

As for mass production for a no winner scenario, I'd figure the companies would just choose one format and go with it and not bother to produce the opposite. Wouldn't they just have to pay one royalty if they did that?


RE: Interesting
By arazok on 5/29/2007 11:13:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm like dice1111, I'm just waiting for a player to play both formats for under $300; I'll just be waiting a long time.


When the choice is to take a chance on one format, wait for dual format support, or get nothing until a winner emerges, the consumer is going to go with dual support 9 time out of 10. Consumers don't do strategy.

I can't say I'll do any differently. I'm just pointing out that if things evolve that way, we don't truly win.

quote:
I'd figure the companies would just choose one format and go with it and not bother to produce the opposite. Wouldn't they just have to pay one royalty if they did that?


Not likely. The DVD+/- burners are almost universally dual format, but I see disks in both formats available in stores. The same situation would likely occur with dual formats. These costs get passed to the consumer. 2 formats requires 2 manufacturing processes, and added cost.


RE: Interesting
By Proteusza on 5/29/2007 3:14:27 PM , Rating: 2
Thats not guaranteed to raise prices though. Consumers wont pay prices they dont agree with, and I think the slowness with which high def DVD formats are being adopted here in the UK illustrates that nicely.

So they could try and raise prices, but ultimately, the market would have at least some effect on that. Also, as adoption rates get higher, economies of scale and better manufacturing processes may lower prices.

It is even possible that were there only one format, the developer of that format would charge royalties for each disc sold, and thus raise prices (although I think thats somewhat unlikely to have much of an effect).

In the end, I really dont care what happens - I'm not buying until prices fall to an acceptable level, and I think by that time there will either be a winner or no winner.


RE: Interesting
By leexgx on 5/29/2007 9:52:34 PM , Rating: 2
i do not agree to much on dual format standard with HD and BR as the BR format holds 25gb as HD-DVD holds only 15gb so i be happy with an Combo drive that can Burn and read BR and read HD-DVD only


Only thing that matter is the High Definition
By luhar49 on 5/30/2007 2:54:52 AM , Rating: 2
All this talk of format wars is pretty misleading for customers. The main reason for these formats to come into existence is the delivery of High Definition video/audio quality.

I have gone HD with one of the formats and cant cease to be amazed by the vividness and the sheer detail that is visible. It is leagues ahead of anything I saw on DVD. I have a decent upscaling DVD player(Oppo 981) but nothing comes close to the HD quality. You just need to watch Planet Earth on HD once to be convinced.

What format you choose is moot. Most of the content is available on either format. There might have been some quality issues with initial releases but all new content is top draw in quality.

So people who are sitting on the fence should jump off it now. Which side, doesnt matter. Once you experience HD, there will be no going back.




RE: Only thing that matter is the High Definition
By jadedeath on 5/30/2007 11:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure you like to listen to yourself talk as much as you like reading your own useless ranting.

Sit down, shut up, and please listen to facts:

Most content is not available on both formats! Need me to say it again? Did I lose you?

Most content is available on Blu-Ray yes, because most companies have signed an agreement with Blu-Ray, whereas only 3 companies have signed a deal with HD. {2 of those have deals with Blu-Ray as well}

And with major releases from this Summer movie season being on either a} both or b} Blu-Ray exclusive {like Spider-Man 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3} That will land the majority of the support in the Blu-Ray camp. HD will probably have a huge problem at that point as I can see ALL of the gamers owning PS3's wanting one of those 3 titles {at least, some of them possibly all}. But for arguments sake let's just say half of them want one of the above titles, by the end of the year there will be about 4 million PS3's worldwide. That makes about 2 million sales falling in the Blu-Ray camp, in an industry in which the current argument is how close they are since they just hopped over a million sales each, that will seal the deal with Blu-Ray.

Logan


RE: Only thing that matter is the High Definition
By luhar49 on 5/30/2007 6:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
Are you sure you were replying to my post ?
Did you even read it ? All I was saying is that getting into HD is the way to go. Format doesnt matter as both are equally good in delivering the quality.

As for your "facts", they are nothing but your own predictions. Read them again and try to convince yourself first.

It would be nice if you think before you shoot your mouth off in a public forum.


By jadedeath on 5/31/2007 12:45:03 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, I was replying to your post, read your own words.

You're saying that it doesn't matter which side of the HD fence you support, when in fact if you support one side or the other, say for example Blu-Ray, and HD wins, you'll end up with a rather expensive piece of equipment that you can only use at a limited capacity. Like if you were to have bought a Laser Disk back in the day, well if you still own a Laser Disk now you'd only have the option of playing a few movies on it.

Are you following so far?

These are not predictions, these are facts.

Same goes for the Spider-Man, Pirates, and Shrek facts, there are alot of gamers out there that love at least one of the above franchises, and alot of the gamers I know love a few of them, and would love to get them on Blu-Ray. I gave a rather conservative estimate with 1/2 of the PS3 owners wanting one of those titles.

Logan


RE:No surprise
By Mr T on 5/29/2007 10:51:37 AM , Rating: 2
Well, with the release of the PS3 and "next-gen games", HD is here to stay.

I got a free Blue-Ray disk with my PS3 from Gamestation and another from Sony, that was a good way to get people interested.

I now have a small collection and the detail is worth every penny, especially Planet Earth in 1080p...you really have to see it to believe it.




RE:No surprise
By AlexSpy on 5/30/2007 11:59:05 AM , Rating: 2
Planet Earth in 1080p, mmm!


RE:No surprise
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:22:31 AM , Rating: 2
What?

Too bad those "next gen" games run and look better on the year older 360.


No surprise
By Griswold on 5/29/2007 10:08:14 AM , Rating: 2
From virtually zero to actually selling discs sure makes for good news if you only look at the percentage.

HD is still not nearly as big in europe as it is in the US and i'll be surprised if that changes in the immediate future.




RE: No surprise
By wallijonn on 5/29/2007 12:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD is still not nearly as big in europe as it is in the US and i'll be surprised if that changes in the immediate future.


An HD player costs about $300. A Blue Ray player costs $800. Which would you buy? Most people would rather pay $300 than $800.

If you don't play games, then you have paid $800 for the PS3/Blue Ray player. That is the whole gist of the article - Blue Ray movie sales are up because more people bought an $800 Blue Ray player, the PS3. Well, "duh".


RE: No surprise
By Scorpion on 5/29/2007 1:39:04 PM , Rating: 1
As I've said in previous Blu-Ray articles...

Of course sales are up. What else are you going to do with a $600 game system that has no games?


"War"
By AlexSpy on 5/30/2007 4:16:20 AM , Rating: 2
From all the hate filled, angry posts i see here, this seems more like a war with every day that passes. Until one format is buried we won't have peace here it seems!




Why the hostility?
By jabber on 5/30/2007 4:50:13 AM , Rating: 2
Why do folks feel they have to get so emotional to support a particular product?

None of us owe these mega-corps anything. They have already shown their contempt for the consumer by providing differing formats and causing confusion.

As I have said before, the best thing we can all do is chill and keep our money in our pockets and let evolution take place. That is the easiest way to sort this out.

They do not deserve such loyalty. Any mega-corp will screw you over as a consumer in the blink of an eye if they can get away with it.

Let em sweat!




Blu Ray is done for
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:17:27 AM , Rating: 2
PS3 gave Blu Ray a temporary artificial boost, but lately HDDVD has been coming back strong without any artificial boost. HDDVD has been gaining in pretty much every tracking of market share in recent weeks, after Blu_Ray established a 70-30% share advantage early in the year.

The fact is HDDVD is competing well on only stand alone player sales, where Blu Ray stand alone sales are basically non-existent. Meanwhile, PS3 sales are just horrendous, and getting worse worldwide on a daily basis (Xbox360 will probably outsell PS3 3-1 in May, it was more than 2-1 in April).

The thing is things are just going to get worse from here for Blu_ray. As I said, stand alone blu-ray player sales are near zero, PS3 sales are plummeting to record new lows on a weekly basis in Japan and America. Meanwhile the $100 Toshiba rebate has spurred a lot of HDDVD sales. And again, the vast majority of PS3 owners are not buying any movies, while HDDVD stand alone buyers do buy a lot of movies, hence with only a fraction of the install base of Blu_ray (if you count PS3) HDDVD disc sales are slugging it out with Blu_Ray easily. Now, what is going to happen when instead of a 90-10 install base advantage due to PS3, more and more stand alone HDDVD players enter the market?

I'd look for Disney to re-examine exclusivity to Blu_Ray pretty soon..HDDVD has established itself as the clear people's choice, and if it weren't for PS3 Blu Ray would not even exist, it would have been discontinued months ago, as again, without the artificial support of Sony force-feeding consumers Blu_ray that they dont want in PS3 (no doubt contributing to the system's dismal sales to date) HDDVD would lead 20-1 or more at this point.




In Fairness
By tk109 on 5/29/07, Rating: -1
RE: In Fairness
By cubby1223 on 5/29/2007 4:57:26 PM , Rating: 3
In all fairness, there was no spin in the article, yet there is a lot of spin in what you state. Is it really that hard to acknowledge blu-ray's current position?

If you want spin, I could certainly give you some. How about the Toshiba price slashing, and Universal's mega-releasing these next two months are signs that they are dumping all inventory they can before ditching the format entirely. Now that's spin. Don't reply to how much you think I'm wrong, I'm just illustrating to you what's spin, and what's not spin.


RE: In Fairness
By Gatt on 5/29/2007 5:18:06 PM , Rating: 2
Hate to burst your bubble,

If you go through finanacial reports of the companies Wallmart deals with, it's BR they'll be pushing.

Funai.


RE: In Fairness
By ATC on 5/29/2007 11:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's the most impressive post I've seen here. Almost every point in your post is refutable; that's not an easy feat by any measure.

Say your name with me now.....H D D V D F A N B O Y


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 5/30/2007 12:00:08 PM , Rating: 2
Walmart is in retail. Period.

If they look at sales trends {which I have no doubt that much like the rest of the world it's reflected in their bank account as well} then they would side with Blu-Ray. Walmart is many things, but stupid when it comes to money isn't one of them. If they see more and more people coming in to buy Blu-Ray movies then they'll give more and more selection to Blu-Ray and phase out HD entirely, it'll take awhile but it might very well happen.

If you honestly think that Walmart isn't going to be pimping out big Blu-Ray titles when they're released to make money then you're sorely mistaken. Walmart won't sit there and go "buy this 300 buck HD-DVD player it's the best player on the market now! what's that? oh, that's just Spider Man 3 and Pirates 3 on Blu-Ray only... no don't worry about that, in fact we'll hide it in the back room so noone will buy it."

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By luhar49 on 5/30/2007 6:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
Have you even watched Spider Man 3 and Pirates 3 in a theater...or just holding out for the "bluray" release?

If you have, you wouldnt be going on like this about bluray riding this "part 3" summer movie wave. Most people who made the mistake of watching these in a theater would avoid the HD release like plague.


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 5/31/2007 12:38:50 AM , Rating: 2
Numbers don't lie, people do.

Obviously you don't pay attention to numbers and only focus on your own point of view.

Spider-man 3 just broke into the top 20 box office movies of all time {world wide} regardless of what you think, that means that alot of people have gone and still want to see that movie.

Pirates 3 is the same deal, biggest Memorial Day weekend opening EVER, and it's still going strong.

Like I said, the numbers don't lie, considering that the first 2 movies of Pirates and Spider-Man did amazingly well on DVD, chances are good since the PS3 owners now have the option they'll go with the better quality movies rather than just regular DVD. Further evidence of this can be found at Amazon in which the first 2 Pirates movies did rather well on Blu-Ray recently.

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 2:39:03 AM , Rating: 1
Sales trends?

If they look at stand alone, aka people buying a movie player, trends, HDDVD is ahead 20-1.

IF you artificially inject a games player that Sony duck taped Blu_ray onto, then things get more even.

But as far as trends, in the last few weeks by any measure HDDVD is gaining share, and Blu_ray is losing share. Even with the artificial PS3 advantage. Meanwhile PS3 sales continue to drop.

If you actually look at the movie release lists, the vast majority of titles are coming on both platforms. I doubt content will be a huge reason why a average joe consumer will choose one or the other. MOST movies are on both formats. Only a select few are exclusive, Sony and Disney on Blu_ray, and Universal on HDDVD (although, some studios like Warner while proclaiming nuetrality, are actually giving HDDVD timed exclusives right now, evening the score even more). Why do you think the Matrix is exclusive to HDDVD right now? This trend of supposedly neutral studios favoring HDDVD isn't good news for Blu-Ray, as that's where the vast majority of titles lie, in the neutral camp. If the neutrals swing, then there will be many more exclusives on HDDVD than Blu_Ray.

Anyways, really the big dog left is Disney, and I suspect soon they will re-examine exclusivity as HDDVD pulls ahead in sales.


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 5/31/2007 1:17:11 PM , Rating: 3
Movie player sales won't win this war, just ask Sega about that, they made it up to 10 million worldwide with the Dreamcast before dropping it like a hot potato. I mean who wants a player that you can't play anything on that's been released in the last 3 years? Oh wait, Children of Men, that's the only major advantage that HD has.

If you consider "more even" to be about 3-1 in Sony's favor {about 3.3 Million PS3's and a couple thousand Blu-Ray stand alones, compared to 1 million HD-DVD players and a few thousand Xbox 360 add-ons}

In the last few weeks? You obviously don't have a clue what's going on, reports from everywhere indicate that Blu-Ray is still leading 3-1 in Europe, North America and Australia, in Japan it's a non-issue because 95% of their market is Blu-Ray. Retailers don't care about the war, they care about what sells, if you have sales figures that are telling you that you should have 3 times more product in one section than another, then the smart thing to do would be to re-adjust your store accordingly.

I work in that industry and get the numbers in daily, Blu-Ray's 3-1 lead doesn't seem to be going anywhere, in fact it seems to be slightly increasing in Europe. Compared to that HD is sliding ever so downhill, and it's not the old stuff that will have people rushing out to buy the next Gen DVD content, as much as I liked "Scent of a woman" it's not going to bend me one way or the other in the format war.

The only big dog left is Disney? You're underestimating the size of Disney, and you're leaving out that 4 out of the 8 major Hollywood studios are backing Blu-Ray and another 2 are supporting both, that's 7 in Blu-Ray camp and 3 in HD, releasing new titles on a weekly basis, the more content that comes out for each platform will determine who wins, right now that edge goes to Blu-Ray.

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By Timeless on 5/31/2007 2:43:25 PM , Rating: 2
Then I take it that Blu-ray is here to stay then. Now I have to go out and buy myself a Blu-ray player cause I want to see Priates 3 and Spiderman 3 in full HD goodness. Cheers!

Great post by the way. Can't you put some sources on that though? I just want some proof and then I'm off to check around for a Blu-ray player.


RE: In Fairness
By Timeless on 5/31/2007 2:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can't you put some sources on that though?


Meant to say Can.


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 8:37:05 PM , Rating: 1
Blu Ray is on the way out. But go ahead, waste that $600+ dollars. Dont believe me, believe him. It's your money. Have fun.


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 6/1/2007 1:53:33 AM , Rating: 2
Pirates 3 is distributed by Disney, Disney has an exclusive deal with Blu-Ray and Sony, in fact they just released the first 2 Pirates movies on Blu-Ray to co-inside with the release of the 3rd in theaters.

Spider-Man 3 is released by Columbia Tristar which is owned by Sony Pictures.

Chances of either of these coming out on HD anytime soon is slim to none.

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 8:34:33 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom052707/...

Here is one link that shows Nielson videoscan week ending 5/20 (latest available), market share is Blu_Ray 58%, HDDVD 42%. Why is that significant? Well for one HDDVD has been rising for several weeks. It was 62-38 Blu_Ray the week prior, for example. Next if you look at Year To Date sales, it's 67-33 Blu Ray. What does that tell you? That Blu Ray is actually LOSING a lot of ground since early in the year when PS3 gave it that huge jump.

Not only that but the $100 Toshiba rebate didn't even start until after 5/20 I believe, and it has caused a huge spike in HDDVD player sales. In the next few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if HD captures over 50% share a few times. Dont look for Dailytech to trumpet it though, since they only post good Blu_Ray news.

1 mil HDDVD players I think counted PC drives too. What's really sad here is that Blu_Ray has a 4-1 or 5-1 lead in players, yet it is 60/40 in disc sales. What's going to happen when HDDVD catches up even halfway?

Nielson is probably the best source, but there are others. Such as this:

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/salesrank10...

Black line is HDDVD, notice a trend?

If a bunch of people buy HDDVD, and they will because this holiday the price is goinng to be all in favor of HDDVD, the studios like Disney are going to have to take notice or lose sales.

And I've heard very conflicting reports about Europe, Blu Ray winning there is hardly a given, but dont kid yourself, if HDDVD wins America, it has done enough. The whole world will probably be forced to go that way. Or at the least, you'd have a massively split market.

Sega dropped the Dreamcast btw because more powerful consoles were coming out. PS2 was out and Gamecube and Xbox had just been announced. There is no such dynamic at work amongst HD players, they all do the same job.

BTW, Disney and Sony got in a big fight recently, when Sony claimed Disney was playing dirty declaring Pirates a bigger opening weekend worldwide gross than Spiderman 3 (Sony claims Disney rolled an extra day grosses into some markets, Disney says the practice is acceptable). Wonder if that could be the beginning of friction between the two that leads to a split?


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 5/31/2007 8:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
Also, the Blu_Ray would be dead and buried by now if not for PS3. We can all agree on that. So, what will happen as PS3 continues to crash and burn in sales?

PS3 has set new record sales lows in Japan on a weekly basis for itself. Some weeks ago the debate was would it go under 10k. Well two weeks ago it sold 8800. Then last week another new low, 8200. Meanwhile Wii is totally dominating Japan. Outselling PS3 nearly 10-1.

In the USA situation is hardly better, PS3 sold 82,000 in April, another new low. By comparison 360 sold 174,000, more than 2-1, and Wii sold 360,000.

With almost no new games for the month once again, I wouldnt be surprised if PS3 sales hit 60,000 in May. It's getting really sad for PS3. So how is it going to push Blu_Ray? Less and less, that's how. Every month stand alone HDDVD sales become more of a factor versus falling PS3 sales.

MS could probably end this fight right now just by introducing a new 360 with HDDVD movie playback..but they wont even have to, HDDVD will win anyway.


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 6/1/2007 2:14:49 AM , Rating: 2
Ya know it's kinda funny, I did a bit of searching myself and the second link that you posted is just a link that proves YOUR opinion on the matter and not the big picture.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

That shows alot of those fancy charts showing Blu-Ray winning. Fancy that. Sometimes it's not about what you show to the public but what you're hiding that tells the story, feel free to ask Warner about how many Departed sold on Blu-Ray and how many sold on HD and you'll probably find the same story.

Did you just say that if HD wins America that the rest of the world will follow suit? That has to be the most ass-forward statement I've EVER heard someone utter. You can't honestly believe that can you? I mean really. It worked so well for America when the Metric System mess came up. Furthermore {and I know this is a shock} there are FAR more people in Europe alone than in America, tack on Asia and Australia and I think you'll see that America saying something is so doesn't always make it so.

For the record, Dreamcast died a LONG time before PS2 and Xbox. But you apparently see my point, that being when something better comes out the lesser tech has a good chance of going the way of the do-do.

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 6/1/2007 7:55:27 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah but it doesn't matter. Europe is a decrepit socialized economy with extremely high tax rates and sluggish growth and an aging population. The largest market in the world is the united states, by far. Europe is many different smaller markets with many different languages. Making it less effective as an overall force.

You are telling me that if HDDVD wins America it wont have huge consequences? The Chinese manufactors build for America first. If Hddvd wins it's over. I cant thing of a major world media format that's different than what America uses. Coincidence? I doubt it.

As I said, even IF Blu Ray somehow won Japan and EU without winning US, it would just be a massively split market, not Blu_Ray winning. I find that unlikely though, I think it's more likely the World will adopt whatever the USA does.

China will never go to Blu_ray, they hate Japan and have already officially adopted a HDDVD varient.

Also, I strongly doubt Blu Ray is winning anything in EU, simply because HDTV adoption is MUCH lower there, and far behind our curve. So if most people dont even have HDTV's in EU, I'd say it doesn't matter much who's ahead at this point, but whoever wins America will win there in the future.

BTW, DVD wars.com is the site, and yes Blu_Ray is winning some. But unlike you I've been watching that site for a couple months, and the TRENDS are all in favor of HDDVD. HDDVD used to never ever win or come close a single catagory. Pick the 30 day graphs, almost always you will see a pretty steady gain for HDDVD. Not to mention, I already gave you Nielson Videoscan, which is a hell of a lot more comprehensive than DVDwars, which is simply some buggy software that tracks the amazon.com bestseller lists. Although I like to look at the site anyway.

As far as Departed Blu_Ray/HDDVD, yeah it's probably sold a bit more on Blu_Ray. So what, the trends are all HDDVD gaining now..Blu Ray only survived off the PS3 boost, HDDVD is slowly overcoming that.

I work in distribution for a "major chain" and the only street date I saw so far that had both formats, we had ordered the exact same amount for each format. So that tells me we're already at sales parity or close to it for my "major national chain".


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 6/1/2007 1:18:03 PM , Rating: 2
Could you possibly have a little more narrow of a view?

If HD wins in America {which is a more narrow of a view every day} then you're telling me that the rest of the world will follow suit?

I'm not even going to go into how wrong that is.

It's not somehow, Blu-Ray has already won Japan, there is no negotiation or disrupting the facts one way or the other 95% is 95% no matter how you slice the pie.

The world does not follow the U.S. in trends, otherwise we'd still be measuring things out in miles instead of kilometers...

The only reason that everywhere else uses the same major media format is because those major media formats were released by mega corporations the world over and that's what the world chose, not just the U.S. Are you following me so far? Do you need a minute to re-read this? Is it making your brain hurt yet?

You can "strongly doubt" anything you want, numbers don't lie, 87% since the induction of the PS3 is a fairly wide gap. It doesn't matter how many people have adopted HD-TV's if you already have a Blu-Ray player and are thinking of upgrading to a HD-TV in the future, why would you keep buying DVD's?

Logan


RE: In Fairness
By Sharky974 on 6/2/2007 7:30:10 AM , Rating: 1
How is it a narrow view?

Simple question: What is the largest single market in the world by far?

United States.

Simple enough for you?

As I said, what's HDTV adoption in America right now? 25%? Europe is way behind us. So what's it in Europe? 5%? Do you really think, having a majority of a basically non-existent market matters?

"If HD wins in America {which is a more narrow of a view every day} then you're telling me that the rest of the world will follow suit?"

Yes. And if you dont believe it's at least possible, you're the one being narrow minded.

"The world does not follow the U.S. in trends, otherwise we'd still be measuring things out in miles instead of kilometers..."

Oh big whoop. Totally different subject. But I guess the fact American Ipod dominates in Europe and Japan counts for nothing too, or could I pull it out as one anecdotal evidence that the USA market dominates?

You Blu_Ray advocates can keep telling us how the rest of the world has already chosen Blu_Ray, to me it smacks of trying to convince yourselves. And even if it is true, you're just as arrogant assuming North America must choose the same format as the rest of the world.

BTW, most mega-corporations cater to the USA if not being based here. Fact. Especially in media. Where in Europe, much of the charts are English speaking artists and the top movies are mostly from Hollywood.

"87% since the induction of the PS3 is a fairly wide gap."

It's actually a fairly meaningless gap given the incredibly small size of the market and small post PS3 release time frame. You could have qouted similar numbers for the USA in January and look, the battle is hardly settled months later. The battle will be won or lost by stand-alone players and that market is probably near zero in EU right now, as usual they are behind the United States in technology trends.

I will make you a promise or a bet, if HDDVD wins America, it will win the world, period. As I said, what's going to drive down costs to mass market levels is Chinas manufactoring, and they are going to look to USA to see which way the wind is blowing (especially since as we discussed, the market is non-existent in EU and probably Japan).


RE: In Fairness
By jadedeath on 6/2/2007 6:06:37 PM , Rating: 2
Simple Answer, largest single market in the world by far is Asia.

You can't divide this up into countries, only a narrow minded simpleton would do such a thing.

Having the majority of any market matters, if you get the market early then there will be no war, Japan has proven that, if you get all the early adopters and take 95% of the market then you won't have much of a war to speak of.

I don't believe it's possible, no, because the US follows Asian trends not the other way around, they have technology that is far superior to that made in the states, if you don't believe that you're being narrow minded, just ask yourself where most of the microprocessors come from in most computers.

It's not the US market that dominates dumbass, it's megacorporations that dominate, they release most things the world over at the same time. Your Ipod example is flawed, they release an MP3 player on the market when most of the things that were out were portable CD players, it's smaller than a CD player and you can fit more songs on it, simple people are going to get it because it's more convenient for them to do so.

Why do you think that phones are getting MP3 players now?

I'm not a Blu-Ray advocate at all, I'm just noticing trends that have developed. Trends are saying that the world {yes, that includes North America} are choosing Blu-Ray at least 3-1 {more in some markets} If you can't read that part and understand that those are facts then you better quit reading. Go play on your Xbox.

The gap is hardly meaningless at all, Blu-Ray had a spike in January the world over, Europe is just showing that spike now because of the PS3 release, and if you honestly believe that stand-alone players will win this fight you're in for a long depressing time with your HD-DVD player playing Children of Men and Smokey and the Bandit over and over again because those are the only titles that you got ahold of before Microsoft jumped ship {which they're already considering doing} And Universal realized that they had to release titles on both in order to remain competitive.

Logan


"It seems as though my state-funded math degree has failed me. Let the lashings commence." -- DailyTech Editor-in-Chief Kristopher Kubicki

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