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Viewsonic's VP930b display has a 16, 8, 3 or 2 millisecond response time depending on which Viewsonic representative you speak to and during which purchasing season
The same company that brought you the 2ms response time LCD brings you another astonishing miracle of science and advertising

Just when you thought the LCD market couldn't stoop any lower, Viewsonic manages to do it again.  Several blogs are reporting about an internal memo from the company with regard to the upcoming "1ms" response time LCDs to be announced later this year.  The document claims that with a combination of OverDrive, Dynamic Structure and Amplified Impulse technologies, this year's new displays from Viewsonic will carry a 1ms gray to gray response time.

Gray to Gray response times are traditionally the average time it takes the LCD crystal to twist from one state to another.  Specifically, the Viewsonic 1ms LCD panels use a 6-bit twisted nematic LCD panel; each subpixel on the display is capable of 64 states.  Akin to a window shade, the further the liquid crystal twists, the more light passes through the display. 

Viewsonic's current displays advertise 2 and 4 millisecond response times on gray to gray (GTG) scales over 256 data points.  What the company does not disclose is the actual gray to gray states -- meaning the GTG response time may only represent the twisting of the liquid crystals from the 1st to the 2nd subpixel state, or the 2nd to the 3rd, etc.  In essence, Viewsonic's 1ms response time is the measure of the liquid crystal twisting from #FF to #FE. 
Viewsonic, like most display companies, does not manufacturer its own LCD panels.  Viewsonic's current LCD provider for high response time LCDs, AU Optoelectronics, only manufacturers panels with 12ms and 16ms advertised response times.  How Viewsonic manages to bypass the laws of physics to twist liquid crystals faster than the manufacturer by adding a digital signal processor remains to be seen. 


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Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 8:41:05 AM , Rating: 2
I'm "for" or "against" Viewsonic, but reading this clearly showed how the writer felt about it.

"How Viewsonic manages to bypass the laws of physics to twist liquid crystals faster..."

Well, if he understood a bit about electronics he should understand the principles of "overdriving". Oh, wait...
"The document claims that with a combination of OverDrive, Dynamic Structure and Amplified Impulse technologies..."
that must be just some marketing mambo-jambo, right?
Maybe he didn't fully researched the subject to really understand how an LCD panel works, and thought it would be better just to bash it.

I'm not saying the "1ms" is or is not true, until those panels get out, and are tested by independent sources I'll give them the benefit of being a company that has delivered excelent products before.

Until then, I'll hope news writers won't keep "breaking the laws of physics" by talking about something they think can't be done... (without even taking the time to look into *possible* explanations)




RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By RobFDB on 2/9/2006 8:47:11 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe you're doing it on purpose, maybe you aren't, but you seem to have missed out the full quote in your post:

"How Viewsonic manages to bypass the laws of physics to twist liquid crystals faster than the manufacturer by adding a digital signal processor remains to be seen ."

Which of course relates to the sentence that precedes it:

"Viewsonic, like most display companies, does not manufacturer its own LCD panels. Viewsonic's current LCD provider for high response time LCDs, AU Optoelectronics, only manufacturers panels with 12ms and 16ms advertised response times ."

Perhaps you should actually quote and respond to the whole news post and not just want to respond to.


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 8:55:09 AM , Rating: 2
ok... let's take the full quote:
"The document claims that with a combination of OverDrive, Dynamic Structure and Amplified Impulse technologies, this year's new displays from Viewsonic will carry a 1ms gray to gray response time."

Where does it mention a DSP being responsible for the "1ms"?
That's just a statement from the writer, not Viewsonic.

Then again, I'm not trying to "save" Viewsonic from anything... just that they should be allowed to launch their product and only THEN we can bash it if there's a reason to.


Moderated
By The Cheeba on 2/9/2006 9:00:39 AM , Rating: 2
Moderated


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 9:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
First of all, it depends what that time means: GTG, etc (just like you said).

So if they can do a 1ms response time at whatever test the invent, are they lying? No. Are they not telling the whole truth? Also no - but then, so do all other panels out there.

Let's wait till such a panel comes out, and I have no doubt it will be tested by every major review site - and then we'll now how this "1ms" panel really means in the real world.


RE: Moderated
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/9/2006 10:44:22 AM , Rating: 2
Do it again and you're banned.

Kristopher


RE: Moderated
By wileec on 2/9/2006 5:57:56 PM , Rating: 2
Ban yourself. Go to walmart and get you some Ban deoderant.


Moderated
By wileec on 2/9/2006 5:57:19 PM , Rating: 2
Moderated. Anandtech doesn't like freedom of speech! Back to www.tomshardware.com for me!


RE: Moderated
By Scrogneugneu on 2/9/2006 9:39:44 PM , Rating: 2
Farewell, then.


Bias
By jilchev on 2/10/2006 4:22:50 AM , Rating: 2
tomshardware also do not like the fake low ?ms and are biased against it!
and if you think this ironic remark is biased then what you will say about Mike at The Inquirer ;-D


Moderated
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/9/2006 8:49:11 AM , Rating: 2
Moderated


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 9:02:33 AM , Rating: 2
I understand that, and - again - I'm not saying Viewsonic is telling the truth or not.

In a LCD panel you can drive the signals differently indeed.
I can assure you that, having nearly fried some panels myself trying to get the timings right when connecting it to custom hardware.

By overdriving the panel you can achive better speed/contrast/etc. That's conformant to the laws of physic - just as you can make your 100W lamp become a lot brighter by sending an higher voltage through it... for the few instants it will take till it burns out. (over simplified example, of course)
But it's the same principle used by hardcore overclockers, raising voltages to make it work faster. I think that's an analogy anyone can understand.

Anyway, I just think you could/should have written it differently, even if still "doubting" it, but without showing such prejudice - that's just my 2 cents...


Moderated
By The Cheeba on 2/9/2006 9:08:46 AM , Rating: 2
Moderated


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 9:22:16 AM , Rating: 2
Welcome to the analog world, when you're dealing with analog driving voltages, you'd be surprised with what voltage, current, modulation, can affect on a LCD panel. :)


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By mindless1 on 2/17/2006 10:06:41 PM , Rating: 2
That sounds good in theory but if there is such tremendous gain to be had, is this a secret? I mean, if there isn't substantial downside to this then why would you presume the panel manufacturers themselves aren't publishing these specs? I find it hard to believe they'd arbitrarily downgrade their own product specs to leave a lot of margin in this cutthroat market.

I feel the opposite is true, that there's fudging going on and it stinks. I recently bought another LCD and it pissed me off that i had to guess about what "specs" are supposed to be believed, think there needs to be a return to standardization which the specs were meant to cover and a stack of lawsuits since companies don't seem to respond to anything else.


RE: Moderated
By wileec on 2/9/2006 5:58:23 PM , Rating: 2
Unmoderated


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By Houdani on 2/9/2006 10:49:47 AM , Rating: 2
In most cases I would agree that a news service should be unbiased ... but in this particular case I certainly will not be wagging a finger at Kristopher.

If Viewsonic advertises this panel with a ubiquitous 1ms response time, then they absolutely should get their hands slapped for misrepresenting their product.

Whose fault is it that there are so many "response time" specifications (TrTf, Tr, grey-to-grey Tr, et al)? The industry for not having a standard, the generally confused customer, or companies taking advantage of the previous two? I fault the latter and propose three cheers for Kristopher for defending the middle.

Frankly, I am grateful for news writers who don't simply regurgitate the slop contained in most PR drivel, but instead call companies out when they make far fetched claims.

OK, now that I'm all the way out on the end of the plank here, I will acknowledge that this news bit is really just a rumor and so I shouldn't be so callous towards Viewsonic. They were the unfortunate recipients of this minirant which was the culmination of my frustration with the industry as a whole for their sloppy specsmanship.

H .


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By niknik on 2/9/2006 12:23:47 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree.

It was just the "ironic" tone, that put me off a little.

There were a thousand other ways to say it was a "dubious" claim other than to "break the laws of physics".

I understand he might have a long story going back on similar issues, and have his right to dislike Viewsonic. But when writing for such a larger audience, he should do so in a proper way.

But enough of all this, I like Kris news... I was just stating MHO. :)


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By mindless1 on 2/17/2006 10:09:27 PM , Rating: 2
Well it could still break the laws of physics because nothing is free. If you state a list of specs then argue there's a way to better ONE of them, the other specs still have to remain true, even the warranty period (actually MTBF) has to be considered.


Then there's the other "physics" involved, that just because "some" panel can be overdriven to gain speed, that doesn't necessarily mean the specific panel they used, has this headroom.


RE: Shouldn't news be unbiased?
By Brassbud on 2/12/2006 11:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
No,absolutely not, that's the whole thing about journalism and were its just plain wrong. Whatever happened to honesty? Fox News is the best at this, everybody is entitled to their opinon, so why not get to people arguing about eating babies? One likes it and one doesn't, so naturaly the truth is only babies that misbehave should be eaten, right? WRONG. What Fox News should report is that there was an argument between one normal person and one complete nut. Everybody is NOT entitled to their opinon. In most countries people are granted the right that they won't be killed because of their opinons, but that doesn't mean nobody can say that they are wrong or bad. And so in an article about misleading advertizing, I see no reason why a journalist must sit on their hands and give the offending party the benefit of the doubt. The very nature of News is that it is biased, if only so much as to justify one story being aired over another.


Call me old-fashioned.....
By kilkennycat on 2/9/2006 12:12:43 PM , Rating: 2
... but I think that for video/photo color-matching and PC gaming, I shall continue to enjoy my high-resolution Hitachi CRTs just a little while longer. No fussing over response-time, color-accuracy, scan-rates etc. LCDs are conveniently compact and have their place in non-critical applications, but for performance-critical viewing they still have a long way to go.




RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By JWalk on 2/9/2006 12:38:48 PM , Rating: 2
I agree 100%. I still greatly enjoy my 21" FD Trinitron CRT. It may weigh alot and take up a little extra desktop space, but the performance and flexibility can't be matched by the LCD's out there right now. This is especially true in games. I can choose which resolution will run the smoothest and look the best in each game.

The only problem is, the market is gearing toward almost exclusively making LCD's. So, I just have to hope that my old-fashioned CRT keeps chugging along, at least until they come up with something better than the current LCD technology. :-)


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By skyyspam on 2/9/2006 1:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
I also agree!

Personally, I stay away from desktop LCDs altogether. Even after all these years of LCD design improvements, I've yet to look at one that I would prefer using over my 6-year-old Hitachi CRT.

I share the same sentiment with the author concerning how twisted LCD marketing is these days. I wish the manufacturers would put out accurate numbers about their products, but being truthful would probably hurt their sales.

As far as the display market's direction, it would seem like the CRT's outlook is actually quite well. Anand published a CES article that covered Canon/Toshiba's SED technology a month ago: http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i...

Read that if you haven't already, but I believe that this technology will cause quite a decline in the popularity of desktop LCDs.


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By inthell on 2/9/2006 1:56:20 PM , Rating: 2
CRT sucks IMO...lcds just keep getting better


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By Runiteshark on 2/10/2006 2:13:54 AM , Rating: 4
Damn kids and their Damn idiotic lack of knowledge.


I run my 21" Triniton CRT @ 1920x1440 @ 71hz.

I went out a few months ago to try and find a good LCD monitor that dosen't have all this widescreen shit, and buy it because I thought it was time to move up. Whats this? I couldn't find ONE good quality high resolution monitor that could display at 2048x1536/1920x1440 at a decent refresh rate. This plain pissed me off after moving 3 feet and going to my Inspiron 9300 @ 1920x1200 on a 17" panel.

The fact that companies keep doing this shit and keep falsely advertising their numbers only ensures that I will stick to the superiority. As someone else previously said, for all regular things, LCDs are fine. For professional high end applications that demand a good resolution, good response rate, and so on, CRTs will be the way to go, unless LCD makers pull their head out their ass.

Just sickening, finding a 20.1" panel @ 1600x1200.


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By mindless1 on 2/17/2006 10:13:46 PM , Rating: 2
You might mean "high resolution" rather than "good resolution". Many professionals that actually need the resolution also want pixel precision, not blurred crap like CRTs produce. A good CRT is of course much better than a poor one but you cannot get per pixel accuracy out of a a CRT, including your trinitron, at 1920 x 1440. 71 Hz? YUCK! The flicker would be so horrible it would give anyone with good eyes a headache.


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By JWalk on 2/9/2006 2:49:29 PM , Rating: 2
The SED technology is interesting, but still leaves the problem of a native resolution (if I am reading that correctly). It could be great for TV technology, but in PC games, you are still stuck with a native resolution.


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By shaw on 2/9/2006 3:10:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I hate LCD/DLP because of native resolution. I think ThinCRT will be the real future. I thought SED didn't have native resolution?


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By KaerfSusej on 2/9/2006 3:50:44 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunatly, cannon and toshiba are planning mainly to make tv sets, not computer monitors using the technology, possibly because the individual pixels are to large to make a smaller sized monitor that has sufficient resolution. To find anything else you want about SEDs look at http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=52...


RE: Call me old-fashioned.....
By ashishmishra on 3/10/2006 3:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
I'm with you on that, the 19" Viewsonic CRT (Aperture Grille) that I recently aquired does a max 2048x1536 res and my desktop res 1280x1024 at 100 Hz. I couldn't be happier. The ultrabright tech is awesome for games. It is way more flexible on resolutions than any LCD on market. Though I respect other people's opinions on the space savings afforded by a LCD, I personally don't mind giving up a little space for exceptional performance.


My question is..
By Araemo on 2/9/2006 8:44:50 AM , Rating: 2
"Specifically, the Viewsonic 1ms LCD panels use a 6-bit twisted nematic LCD panel; each subpixel on the display is capable of 255 states."

How can it represent 256 states with 6 bits of information?

I think you mean each subpixel is capable of being driven to 64 states. ;P They may be CAPABLE of 256, but the electronics aren't capable of telling them 256 states. Which makes this much less interesting to me. Call me when there is an 8 bit panel with a 1 ms response time. ;)




By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/9/2006 8:50:51 AM , Rating: 2
You're correct. Typo.

Kristopher


Change Physics
By fbrdphreak on 2/9/2006 8:34:32 AM , Rating: 2
LOL, gotta Kris' subtelty there ;)




hehehe
By Donegrim on 2/9/2006 8:37:18 AM , Rating: 2
It's refreshing to get news in such an.. uncompromising tone




Call me when...
By ProviaFan on 2/9/2006 10:47:31 AM , Rating: 2
I anxiously await a wide gamut LCD (Adobe RGB gamut is fine) that can display more than 256 shades per color, at under - oh, we can be reasonable - US$2000.




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