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Giuseppe Amato gives another overview on the high points of AMD's next-generation CPU architecture

This article was first published in German on K-Hardware.de.

Yesterday, AMD held a press presentation in Munich, Germany to update journalists about its upcoming K10 processor. AMD's Giuseppe Amato, Technical Director Sales and Marketing EMEA, had a few minutes to talk about the architecture at length. This architecture, previously dubbed K8L by Henri Richard -- now publically called K10 -- is scheduled to be AMD's first monolithic quad-core design.

The integrated memory controller (IMC) will get a few new features in the K10 core. When utilizing multiple memory modules, along with proper BIOS implementation and mainboard routing, the IMC can access memory in 64-bit channels (72-bit if you use ECC). This way it is possible to read and write data simultaneously, or improve efficiency for irregular access patterns which increasingly occur in a quad-core environment. This feature is available on AM2+ and F+ boards; on "old“ socket AM2 and F boards the usual 128-bit dual-channel mode is available.

Due to split power planes, the IMC can be clocked down independently of the CPU cores, along with reduced voltage. This also enables CPU overclocking without touching the memory frequency, something that may appeal to enthusiasts. These features are again dependent on Socket AM2+ and F+ platforms.

Amato explained how the quad-core design benefits from the internal crossbar switch the backbone of communication inside the K10 CPU. With Intel's current quad-core design there are cases where data needs to travel over the FSB -- in AMDs case all inter-CPU communication takes place on-die.

The crossbar switch of the K10 core is already prepared for up to 8 cores, Amato boasted. Amato wouldn't give even a vague timeframe for market availability of such a CPU, though he indicated the company is prepared for whatever the market demands. Amato made clear that octo-core is far away in the future – Shanghai will not get 8 cores.

K10 will introduce a shared L3 cache while the individual cores have dedicated L1 and L2 caches. As long as requested data lies in L1, it can be directly loaded. This also works if the data lies in the L1 cache of another core, in which case the communication works via the crossbar switch. In case requested data resides in the L2 cache, it will be loaded to L1 and then invalidated in L2 as AMD has an exclusive cache design. The L3 Cache, however, is not exclusive, but allows for a shared bit to be set. If a core loads data marked as shared, it will reside in the L3 cache and can be fetched by other cores as well.

Amato also mentioned an array of power saving measures which, in sum, allow AMD to deliver a quad-core CPU in the same thermal envelope as today’s dual-core CPUs.

K10 adds the capability of independently clocking all the CPU cores. In current K8 processors (and Intel's Core 2 generation), all cores are clocked at the same level all the time -- the P-state can only be changed synchronously. In case of a compute-intensive single-threaded process, all cores must run on the highest level P-state. On K10-based CPUs, the idle cores could be switched to the lowest P-state, while others are in different states, depending on load.

This feature could possibly be abused by overclockers to overclock a single core above the specified levels. Amato clarified that AMD doesn't endorse overclocking, but acknowledges there are people interested in that. In a warranty case, AMD could detect PLL programmings out of spec which would deny the warranty. The new cores, however, have new thermal sensors, to improve overheating protection.

Amato closed the session by mentioning Shanghai as a successor to Barcelona in the server space for 2008. Shanghai will be an improved quad-core architecture, which is supposed to be socket-compatible with current Socket F platforms. Roadmaps available to DailyTech revealed Shanghai is a 45nm quad-core CPU featuring 6MB of L3 Cache.



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A little pleased
By Cobra Commander on 4/16/2007 8:13:24 AM , Rating: 3
AMD's marketing department has not overwhelmed me with confidence in upcoming architectural design but this is more-satisfying than most tidbits I've been reading.

For example, I've always wondered why the MCH has not yet been divided (a la GPU MCHs are) and here the K10 features a crossbar MCH.

I also am digging the independant core power savings functionality.

My main concern is the lack of information on the more fundamental aspects of a CPU: AMD does not seem overly-concerned with expressing how it's going to raise its power:performance to a more-competitive level with Intel.




RE: A little pleased
By Griswold on 4/16/2007 8:19:29 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
My main concern is the lack of information on the more fundamental aspects of a CPU: AMD does not seem overly-concerned with expressing how it's going to raise its power:performance to a more-competitive level with Intel.


What do you expect? They can provide as many details and internal performance numbers as they like, there will always be doubt until the benchmarks are verified - in fact, they have been giving out details and numbers over the last months, and its been received exactly as I said above, for the most part.


RE: A little pleased
By Marcus Pollice on 4/16/2007 8:46:20 AM , Rating: 2
The only performance numbers that were given at the event were the same 40% advantage over Clovertown in FP-heavy code (SPECfp).


RE: A little pleased
By jhtrico1850 on 4/16/2007 3:40:20 PM , Rating: 2
And that's on the older SPECfp_rate2000 too.


RE: A little pleased
By Dactyl on 4/16/2007 4:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
The 40% SPECfp advantage vs. Clovertown doesn't tell us much.

That benchmark scales poorly for Intel when you go from Core 2 Duo to Core 2 Quad .

Is that because SPECfp is FSB-limited on a Clovertown?

But how many of the applications you and me care about (games, etc.) are FSB-limited?

Why is AMD only showing a single, cherry-picked benchmark?

Like I've said before, I want to be wrong about this. I want Barcelona to crush Penryn. But the indications so far are not promising.


RE: A little pleased
By Lakku on 4/16/2007 6:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
Well, it has to deal with the Core 2/Kentsfield CPUs first. I say this because Intel has been stating that they plan on having Penryn up into the mid 3GHz range, or at the least, clocked well above what Kentsfield is now. I am guessing Barcelona will probably be faster per clock, but Intel may just ramp up speeds to counter that advantage. With that said, I am sure Barcelona will contiunue to keep AMD competative or in the lead in the server realm, but a 'native' quad-core may not really matter when it comes to what most of care about here, and that is games/home computing (ripping, movie making, etc.).


RE: A little pleased
By Dactyl on 4/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: A little pleased
By IamKindaHungry on 4/16/2007 8:48:05 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
What would you rather have: an efficient crossbar linking your native quad core CPU, or an additional 5 FPS in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?


Actually, I choose option #3 which is a another patch for all the bugs in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.


RE: A little pleased
By Sh0ckwave on 4/16/2007 8:58:28 AM , Rating: 3
Releasing specific details on the new cores wouldn't help their sales or stop people from buying Intel anyway. It would really only give Intel a better idea of what they're up against.


RE: A little pleased
By paydirt on 4/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: A little pleased
By othercents on 4/16/2007 10:52:24 AM , Rating: 2
IT Managers don't follow market trends and won't wait for a processor in hopes that it will be better than the one they get now. Most IT Managers (myself included) strictly buy Intel with disregard to performance numbers. I do this because it is easier to manage. When you buy 25 computers a month it is more important to get reliable computers that can be installed quickly. I might wait up to 2 weeks if I think the price will drop, but thats all.

It is possible that I might look at AMD after the new processors come out, but that is dependent on how quickly DELL starts rolling out computers with the new hardware and what the price is going to be since Intel is dropping theirs. Plus you also have to think twice about switching to AMD in July since Intel is making die changes in December. If Intel becomes better in December then I will have 125 computers that are different than everyone else.

I am also concerned about the AMD availability when the K10 comes out. We might not see computers from our vendor until late Q3 or even Q4.

Other


RE: A little pleased
By GlassHouse69 on 4/16/2007 12:46:21 PM , Rating: 4

everyone likes to seem like a type A aggressive meat market guido who responds to these things.

You buy 25 a month. I do not think you are a high volume purchaser. Also, it seems you really dont need whatever is cutting edge, just what gets the job done. Also, you are not looking forward to new technologies, just whatever dell is offering. Also, you arent buying them, just ordering them for a company. Your company probably has no clue what is better and has no real need for the best versus decent. I would guess that like your company, most companies do not have scientific calculation needs, huge server workload needs, etc etc.

the k10 is driven by gamers and people who run demanding servers. When either of these two REALLY SMALL groups of people say a chip is crap, the stock price plummets and the middle of the road users reject the chip.


RE: A little pleased
By PrezWeezy on 4/16/2007 4:01:37 PM , Rating: 1
I would disagree with you there. People don't listen to the gamers. They might pay some attention to what is being said about servers but the market doesn't rely on gamers to tell them what chip is better. They rely on IT managers. Whatever the IT guy recomends at work, people will buy for home assuming it is within their price point. I can't tell you how many people ask me what to buy.

Actually 25 a month is a substantial number of PC's. And it doesn't matter where the PC's are being acquired, what matters is that they are being installed on a regular basis. And I would agree with OtherCents, switching platforms causes problems. It is much easier if everyone is on the same platform.


RE: A little pleased
By GlassHouse69 on 4/17/2007 2:59:15 AM , Rating: 1
IT managers who do not have computers as a hobby do not rely on their own input in purchasing equipment. They will go to their staff who have an opinion either way. Those people have been building AMD systems for several years now at home. They like AMD and know it will be an impressive decision if they flip their blades/pc's/workstations to an AMD. Well, this was so until the c2d era that began last summer.

Do not underestimate the tech geek in a cubicle when it comes time for opinions. Apple would have been chucked out long ago if it wasnt for the creative/tech geek combo guy in his 30's and 40's.


RE: A little pleased
By PrezWeezy on 4/19/2007 5:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think we have a slightly different idea on what an IT Manager is. I'm refering to those who own a business doing IT work. I guess Consultant is more commonly used, but I've heard IT Manager, IS Manager, and the like. So they are the ones who's opinion you would ask.

I still wouldn't build an AMD system at home. I can afford not to, especialy now that the prices are extremely competitive; and they still left a bad taste in my mouth. It is just a personal opinion but I stand by Intel because I know it will work and continue to work. And I am one of those geeks...although I'm not in a cubicle, nor am I in that age demographic.


RE: A little pleased
By bob661 on 4/21/2007 6:55:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
IT Manager
IT Manager isn't a consultant it's the head IT guy in a corporation. And how the hell did AMD leave bad taste in your mouth? I work for an organization with close to 10,000 users and our entire engineering department runs AMD (about 500 or so). We have AMD powered servers running 24/7 without fault. We also have many Intel desktops and servers running 24/7. We bought AMD because they were faster, cheaper, and cooler running than Intel. Makes good business sense. If it works, it works.

Now there's a price parity and the performance difference is nearly identical so we can CHOOSE based on features.

If you're making business decisions based on fanboy ideals, your IT department is not really looking out for the best interests of your company.


RE: A little pleased
By PrezWeezy on 4/23/2007 1:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
You are correct in that I used the wrong term. I appologize for that, but I corrected myself. And AMD left a bad taste in my mouth when I installed several of them and after a few months the procs started to overheat and freeze or shutdown the computer. I want reliability in the business world. My company has a few of the new generation AMD machines out there. And I would agree that our database server running dual Opterons is an Intel killer. The things is amazing. It runs much faster than any Xeon server we could put together at the time. That doesn't change the fact that unless it is a specialized application, I prefer to go with the more stable Xeon.


RE: A little pleased
By mindless1 on 4/19/2007 5:03:43 AM , Rating: 2
and I can't tell you how many DIDN'T ask you what to buy.

Only stupid people rely on IT managers, the rest make their own informed decisions. That is not to slight the experience of IT managers, only that a certain segment of buyers needs help today when the internet is such a wealth of information.

People do actually listen to gamING, it is in fact what drives a lot of the market, not some arbitrary score running Office 200(n), in addition to benchmarks of other applications they won't ever use.

Yes running a common set of parts helps, but platform? No, that's stupidity. There is just as much difference in maintenance in whether all boxes use the same NIC as whether they all use the same brand of CPU.


RE: A little pleased
By PrezWeezy on 4/19/2007 5:45:12 PM , Rating: 2
You obviously have never in your life managed anything in IT. Lets say I have 200 computers, and a few spares. If all the parts match identicaly and one goes down, I can take my spare box, swap the hard drives (assuming you have the license to do that), and that person is good to go while I get the motherboard replaced or get a new fan for the CPU. For a small company it doesn't make much sense, but the more computers you have out there the more and more it does make sense to have a platform aproach. Use one family of chipsets and maybe use a faster CPU if you need more power.

You may not need help buying a PC, but if I look online I can find just as many Intel backers as I can AMD backers. So now the question is which do I go with? So you ask the people who know, the guys who work on them all day long. And I'd like to point out that the average consumer not only wouldn't know what a benchmark is, but what it means even if they did know to look for them. No the fact of the matter is that people either use their checkbook to determind their PC purchase or they ask some one they know and trust.

You're right, you can't tell me how many didn't, because you have no idea yourself. My point was that the majority of people at least ask my opinion before buying a new PC. And many of them go out of their way to call and ask. And the average user doesn't look online. The percentage of those that do is very small.


RE: A little pleased
By bob661 on 4/21/2007 7:07:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You obviously have never in your life managed anything in IT. Lets say I have 200 computers, and a few spares.
You obviously work for a retarded IT department. Everyone in a company doesn't need the exact same computer. The computer one gets is based on the need of the person. I'm not saying you have to assess everyone's needs but you do have make an educated, throughly researched assessment of your companies needs and match the computer to that need. If you have 500 people that only use "office" apps, then a $500 cheap box will more than do the trick. If you have 200 people that require some sort of heavy scientific or math calculations then you give them a box that does the trick. Todays computers are extremely reliable and require VERY few spare parts. We keep one 7'x7' cabinet with spare parts for the internals for our engineering department (500 users). The spare server parts are in the same cabinet. We have another smaller cabinet for the Dell's (everything's onboard).

Also, variety of chipsets and hardware is mute when you know how to build an image. We have 120 images we use that can be used on any hardware platform whether it is Intel or AMD. Your company isn't getting what they're paying for no wonder our jobs are going overseas.


RE: A little pleased
By Targon on 4/23/2007 7:09:40 AM , Rating: 2
There is something to be said in IT to have a limited number of different machine types in service at any one time. While I disagree with the idea that all machines in an environment should be identical, when it comes to fixing problems, it really does help in many situations.

With that said, having several different types of machines in use really isn't a bad thing in IT, as long as you don't go with the, "All our machines are identical except these two machines" type situation. If you order 25 machines a month, then going with some Intel and some AMD based machines is fine.

Over the long haul, AMD does tend to let IT upgrade the processors for a longer period of time with a given socket. Socket 754 was never planned to last for a long time, socket 939 wasn't too bad for how long you could upgrade processors. Socket AM2 processors will work in systems with an AM2+ socket as an upgrade path, and socket AM2+ processors will work in socket AM2 motherboards, just without being able to have each core clock independently. When socket AM2+ processors are released, I have heard the plan is to let them work on socket AM3, though I could be wrong about that.

Now, back to the topic at hand...

Vendors upgrade their models on a very regular basis, dropping the old, and adding the new. Sure, you can still buy older model parts for quite a while if you hunt around the Internet, but when it comes down to it, if you buy 25 machines a month, every six months to a year will probably result in the motherboard or some other component being different. Along the way you have seen hard drives phase over from PATA to SATA, and even the CD/DVD drives have started the transition across the board. Power supplies have changed to reflect the transition of the market as well. Dell tends to push whatever chipset Intel wants them to in Intel based machines as another example. Have you looked at the drivers page for a Dell machine with the same model number? For the same model, you can have different chipsets and different features, so even if you order the same model machine, there WILL be differences over time.

So, the key for larger IT departments is to go with batches of machines that are roughly the same. If you go 50/50 Intel/AMD, then having both types of platforms in house will still be easy to manage. Just avoid VIA or SiS chipsets, and you should be fine.


RE: A little pleased
By PrezWeezy on 4/23/2007 1:25:50 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. I wasn't saying that my suggestion was a purely prcatical one, I was simply stating the "ideal" way to run. In reality you can't have the same maching for everyone all the time. We happen to build our machines so we can stay with one model for a longer period of time. The more uniform you can make your topology, the better for managing. I don't want to have to deal with 120 different images. I have 10. I don't use the same machine for everyone but I like to be similar if possible. And if it comes to needing to upgrade the processor, we just replace the machine and move the old one down to someone who has an even older machine.

Bob661:
As for everyone needing the same machine you are correct that not everyone needs the same machine to run their particular apps. But I can build a computer with an MSI board that has on board video, 1 gig of RAM, everyone uses DVD burners now, an 80 gig hard drive, and a C2D E6300. If someone needs more processing power I can simply put in an E6600. For someone who needs more video we can put in an add on video card. So not everyone has the same machine but everyone has a platform on which to build. Just like Ford doesn't use a different platform for the Explorer, Mountainier, and Navigator. It's the same car, just dfferent classes, therefor they use the same frame and chasis and just add options for what the customer wants, and wants to pay for.


RE: A little pleased
By Regs on 4/16/2007 10:29:25 AM , Rating: 2
We didn't know much about the K8 before it came out did we? All we knew is that it had a IMC with 512KB/1MB of L2 cache.


RE: A little pleased
By MonkeyPaw on 4/16/2007 7:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
You could read this article:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...

quote:

* SSE128

* Improved Branch Predictor

* Added Dedicated Stack Manager

* Added Load Re-ordering

* Improved Translation Lookaside Buffers

* Improved Memory Controller

* Updated Prefetcher

* Shared L3 Cache

* Improved Virtualization

* Improved Power management (independent core & IMC P-states)


It pretty much spells out all the major architectural improvements. Quite a few things are taken from Core 2, others are original. The article has no benchmarks, but that should not come as a surprise since the product isn't that close to launch. I'd suspect the architectural improvements found in K10 will boost IPC 15-25% percent, perhaps more in quad core situations where the IMC changes will be more effective.


RE: A little pleased
By goatfajitas on 4/21/2007 10:34:23 AM , Rating: 2
but still, we ahve to wait for shipping product and independant benchies. It will be an interest 2nd half of 2007 for sure.


umm
By SLEEPER5555 on 4/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: umm
By chaos386 on 4/16/2007 7:24:33 AM , Rating: 5
There was a K9, but its performance was a bit of a dog, so they decided to skip it.


RE: umm
By sviola on 4/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: umm
By cochy on 4/16/2007 4:01:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There was a K9, but its performance was a bit of a dog, so they decided to skip it.


I think I got that exact same response when I asked that question.

I still have another question though. I was under the impression that Barcelona was based on a "K8L" core. Now AMD is talking about K10 cores. Can anyone clarify for me?


RE: umm
By johnsonx on 4/16/2007 5:07:02 PM , Rating: 2
My impression is that K8L has simply been renamed to K10. The 'original' K9 and K10 projects, which were new architectures largely distinct from the K8, have been scrapped (which is not to say that nothing was learned, or that nothing from those projects made it into the 'new' K10). The upcoming evolution of the K8 architecture that has been referred to as the K8L may or may not have been ever referred to as such by AMD internally, depending on who you listen to. The public rename to K10 is clearly meant to describe the significant differences from K8; K8L hardly brings to mind a significantly improved core. K9 was skipped for the obvious reasons: it isn't just that it sounds similar to "canine", K9 and K-9 are often used in place of the word.

Some sources now suggest that K9 is the internal code name for the dual-core K8, which may well be true now, but that doesn't mean K9 wasn't originally for a different project. This may be nothing more than a non-doggy explanation for calling the 'new' K8 architecture K10.

Just for the record, I'm not claiming to 'know' any of this, and I have no inside info. I've just read a fair amount about this over the past few years, and the above is the picture I've formed after separating the wheat from the chaff.


RE: umm
By johnsonx on 4/16/2007 6:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
Marcus Pollice confirms some of what I suggested here:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6918&...

I'd often suspected that K8L was actually just a low-power mobile K8, and that the use of that term to describe the next-gen K8 was a media mistake.


RE: umm
By paydirt on 4/16/2007 7:25:01 AM , Rating: 3
yes, AMD is a humane and animal friendly company. They are not in the business of manufacturing or disposing of K9's.


RE: umm
By clayclws on 4/16/2007 8:18:24 AM , Rating: 1
They removed "K9" because its ounded like "canine" ? Been reading about it across the internet, but is it really true?


RE: umm
By paydirt on 4/16/2007 9:02:10 AM , Rating: 4
Sounds like cute, cuddly, furry friend in the U.S. and potential meal in parts of Asia. Too confusing to consumers.

The K10. Now with improved packet sniffing and instruction prefetching and shares its cache of toys.


RE: umm
By dnd728 on 4/16/2007 2:09:18 PM , Rating: 2
I guess K12 and prolly K13 are out of the question too...


RE: umm
By Fritzr on 4/21/2007 6:26:34 AM , Rating: 2
Doctor Who is likely the reason for skipping K9. K9 the robotic dog was one of his many companions :)


RE: umm
By clemedia on 4/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: umm
By Griswold on 4/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: umm
By Daven on 4/16/2007 11:45:04 AM , Rating: 3
There is some confusion surrounding the K9 name. Here are some links for reference:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_K9

The wikipedia entry says that K9 has been officially confirmed as the dual core version of K8 (the original AMD 64 architecture). K10 is definitely the upcoming barcolona architecture. K9 was also supposed to be an 8-issue core that was canceled at some point.

Read the articles and make up your own mind for whatever it's worth. However, the answer as Griswold stated as 'No' may not be correct. And please don't respond No again unless you have at least a link to something stating that K9 never existed or was cancelled or whatever.


RE: umm
By Daven on 4/16/2007 12:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
Here is another link from Cnet News.com stating that AMD is doing away with K nomenclature. The article also states that dual-core processors released in 2005 are referred to as K9 processors lending more credibility that K9 processors are dual-core K8's.

http://news.com.com/AMD+hatches+new+naming+plan+fo...


RE: umm
By bldckstark on 4/16/2007 12:32:10 PM , Rating: 2
No.


RE: umm
By Marcus Pollice on 4/16/2007 5:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yes there were all these stories about K9 and K10 cancelled, there being no K9, K9 as a name for dual-core K8 and K8L as a name for Barcelona-architecture now dubbed K10.

Here are the facts:
K8L = K8 Low Power = Turion 64
K10 is now apparently the official name and it fits way better than K8L given all the additions. AMD employees used it during the presentation themselves.


RE: umm
By Targon on 4/16/2007 11:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
If you think about it, K9 brings to mind a dog. Now, if you say that a chip performs like a dog, that would be seen as a negative thing, so it's pretty clear why AMD marketing would avoid letting that name be used, even internally.

So, even if dual-core is what WOULD have been K9, the name would never be used for the above reasons. K10 on the other hand works as a code name.


RE: umm
By GlassHouse69 on 4/17/2007 3:05:13 AM , Rating: 2
yes. however, they stopped that info from comming out as k9 was a stupid marketing name.

also, teh original k9 details were off a bit from the projected k9 so I think this also has something to do with it.

k9 sux compared to dualcore.


RE: umm
By SmokeRngs on 4/18/2007 11:28:00 AM , Rating: 2
I will state this from the beginning, I have no proof of any reason why they would have skipped K9 and gone straight to K10. I believe it's a mix of reasons already mentioned, though.

I'm sure there were many architecture changes made during design that may have been the intention to call K9. However, due to the differences between the expectations of K9 and what is now called the K10, AMD may have decided to skip K9 and go to K10.

K-9 is obviously a reference to dog in the US (and possibly other parts of the world) which is a reference most marketing departments would want to avoid.

"Skipping" a product number is nothing new. Notice how Arctic Silver mysteriously went from AS3 to AS5. It is rumored that was because 4 is an unlucky number in parts of Asia if my memory serves me correctly. On a tangent, how many of you have seen audio CDs that mysteriously have a missing track 13 or track 13 is nothing but silence. It's a superstition. I know of a couple of music performers that have admitted that is the reason they skipped that track number.

A combination or mixture of reasons I have stated or others have given could have resulted in this "skipping" of a product number.

Does any of this actually mean anything? Not a damn bit. The architecture is the same no matter what number or name they give it.


RE: umm
By Marcus Pollice on 4/19/2007 8:41:27 AM , Rating: 2
Especially since architecture codenames are not even mentioned in marketing, but only in technical discussions and publications where such stupid associations with no technical merit are not really common. Leaves only fanboys and those make up bad stuff also on good names.

So I guess the K9 mystery will remain unsolved.


Overclocking
By aftlizard01 on 4/16/2007 9:48:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Amato clarified that AMD doesn't endorse overclocking, but acknowledges there are people interested in that. In a warranty case, AMD could detect PLL programmings out of spec which would deny the warranty. The new cores, however, have new thermal sensors, to improve overheating protection.


Well thats interesting. Why bother having unlocked multipliers on the FX line if that is their official stance? I suppose either way if the chips OC well it won't matter in the end.




RE: Overclocking
By GoatMonkey on 4/16/2007 10:44:26 AM , Rating: 2
I think it's funny that Intel is talking about pretty much the same thing today.

http://apcmag.com/5852/intel_announces_core_2_duo_...


RE: Overclocking
By rcc on 4/16/2007 11:48:01 AM , Rating: 2
That's not new data. Scan back a week or so here and you'll find a similar article.


RE: Overclocking
By Regs on 4/16/2007 11:49:56 AM , Rating: 2
It's because they want to sell more than just their middle and entry level processors. You have to have some deterrence without cannibalizing sales even though mobo manufacturers make that extermely difficult.


RE: Overclocking
By Marcus Pollice on 4/16/2007 12:22:06 PM , Rating: 6
Regarding these comments of Amato I'd like to add that I understood this as non-FX CPU overclocking, where the only possible way to do is raise the reference clock (thus higher PLL frequency). The FX CPUs can be overclocked without messing with the reference clock, you can simply raise the multiplier.

And I guess it is understood that as a CPU manufacturer in general you can't endorse overclocking, even if you provide products which are OC-friendly.


Shanghi who?
By Regs on 4/16/2007 9:41:18 AM , Rating: 2
Seems like another incremental upgrade. Hopefully not the same type of "upgrade" like Brisbane. Though anything helps for AMD's case. Maybe not a performance upgrade but a performance per watt increase because of sheer power savings of 45nm. Though if they can maybe add some more SSE and some higher clock speed it can compete with Nethlem in 08.

Sooo good competition has become!!!




RE: Shanghi who?
By Moishe on 4/16/2007 10:25:05 AM , Rating: 2
incremental?
Man the article details so much change and most of it is very core important stuff. Not to mention the fact that K10 is supposed to have other stuff in it as well that they haven't mentioned.

Heck, what they've said alone will really add life and longevity to AMD and keep their CPUs modern and powerful.

At this point we don't know what the performance will be but we know that AMD is putting effort into it. Good for them, and us.


RE: Shanghi who?
By Regs on 4/16/2007 10:28:09 AM , Rating: 2
I was not commenting on K10. I was commenting on Shanghai.


RE: Shanghi who?
By Moishe on 4/16/2007 11:53:02 AM , Rating: 2
ahh sorry :)


hyper transport expansion slots?
By nerdye on 4/16/2007 9:29:38 PM , Rating: 3
Has anyone heard any knew info on K10 motherboards coupled with a hyper transport expansion slot? We heard long ago that it could be used for physics (ppus) or other useful hardware that may be able to take advantage of the extreme speed of hyper transport 3.0 (of course assuming a navtive quad core cpu would not gobble up all the bandwidth which is unlikely, but I have not heard any info since). Now that AMD owns ATI, although economically ridiculous, couldn't they theoretically be a future ATI gpu distributed in pci-E 2.0 and hyper transport expansion slot configurations. I for one do not want a beta max vs. vhs, or blue ray vs. hd-dvd battle on the gpu implementation side, yet the GPU companies are free to adopt the open source hyper transport technology of course. I have not heard any discussion on this in quite a while. Any thoughts?




The Important Point
By DannyH246 on 4/18/2007 8:36:14 AM , Rating: 3
Come on guys, lets stop all this pointless talk about dogs and K9's. Lets talk about the important stuff.

1. Will Barcelona restore the performance crown?
2. When will it be out?
3. What will be the initial clockspeed?

Although i am a self confessed AMD fanboy. I must admit things are looking grim at the moment.

AMD announced Torrenza ages ago, and theres nothing out there yet, Intel already have Xilinx silicon that plugs into their sockets.

Come on AMD for f* sake!!




By cheetah2k on 4/19/2007 2:34:50 AM , Rating: 2
It has to be said that AMD continue to lack in any advertising at all for Barcelona. I really hope that AMD break the trend and spend some good $ on decent media coverage. Intel is such an agressive monster on advertising, and it shows in their % of market share.

Also, if AMD doesnt advertise correctly, the average joe wont know the difference between an AMD native Quad, and a stitched up "Dual Core 2 Duo" (Intel Quad).

By the time Barcelona is released people won't raise an eyebrow when AMD is jumping up and down displaying their newest native Quad CPU baby, when the Intel "Quad" branding (legitimate or not) has been around for ages.

Worth a thought..




Quaf FX future
By Amiga500 on 4/25/2007 9:31:30 AM , Rating: 2
Got a question on the future of QuadFx, but don't really know where to put it, here seems best.

Anyway, Quad FX as it currently stands can run 4 CPUs with 8GB of RAM. With K10, it should be able to run 8 CPUs.

Does anyone know of any QuadFX motherboard planned that will be able to handle more than 8GB of RAM?

I ask this because using non-registered memory with 8CPUs is an extremely attractive option pricewise compared to conventional workstations.




lets talk tech and not dog!
By nerdye on 4/17/2007 12:26:50 AM , Rating: 1
Ok k9 sounds like canine, thanks people, how about we talk about interesting technology and stop posting the same garbage jokes about performing like a dog, I wrote a post on hyper transport expansion slots earlier, yet everyone seemed to reply to canine related garbage, you are on daily tech people, talk tech for the love of DOG!!!! Slight pun intended.




Well, so what? All talk, no action...?
By kilkennycat on 4/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well, so what? All talk, no action...?
By kilkennycat on 4/16/07, Rating: -1
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/16/2007 5:01:21 PM , Rating: 2
What was once K8L is now K10.


RE: Well, so what? All talk, no action...?
By Rollomite on 4/16/2007 5:46:25 PM , Rating: 3
Outside of the media coining the term K8L, did it ever "officially" exist?

Rollo.


By GlassHouse69 on 4/17/2007 3:02:50 AM , Rating: 1
k8l is a turion a64 !

open up a cheap laptop and smile at one!

just a low power a64 chip is the consensus of what k8l really was.

heck, the k10 isnt even a barcelona for desktops, it is an agena....


By Targon on 4/16/2007 11:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
AMD tends to show these demonstrations behind closed doors and NOT in a public forum. Intel feels threatened, so toots their own horn every chance they get. AMD doesn't want to talk big then get beaten.

K10 will be shown closer to release, figure in the May to early June time frame(since June-July is when many figure K10 will be released).


By Spoelie on 4/17/2007 8:27:45 AM , Rating: 2
Barcelona has been shown running windows etc in december 2006.


"Well, we didn't have anyone in line that got shot waiting for our system." -- Nintendo of America Vice President Perrin Kaplan

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