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Blu-ray Disc Java is coming this fall, and it may be incompatible with some of today's machines

The most common piece of advice given to those unsure about which high-definition optical format to buy is to simply wait until a victor emerges. Early adopters, however, should be aware that being cutting edge could come with a price, such as the risk of bugs or complete hardware and software obsolescence.

The Blu-ray Disc Association has mandated that all players of the format released after October 31 must adhere to a specific feature set that is currently not standard for today’s hardware. All Blu-ray Disc players after the fall date must support BD Java, a programming language for Blu-ray Disc media used mainly to deliver picture-in-picture for in-movie commentary and special features.

“Blu-ray player requirements and BD-Java specifications have been gradually changed over and over again, which has caused a good amount of grief for player manufacturers,” said optical storage analyst Wesley Novack. “The new specification and requirements will ensure that all Blu-ray players manufactured past October will be able to support the full range of BD-Java capabilities, including picture in picture and more.”

Early adopters of Blu-ray players may find themselves with inadequate hardware to support media using BD Java software.

Novack continued, “This might be bad news for early adopters who have already purchased a player, but it will not prevent them from playing back future Blu-ray movies. Owners of first generation Blu-ray players will probably not be able to use the full range of interactive features available on future Blu-ray Disc titles.”

Owners of current Blu-ray Disc players who are concerned about the future utility of their hardware are assured by manufacturers that current players won’t be made completely obsolete with the new standard.

“As is common in new format introductions, future products will include some additional features such as picture-in-picture,” said Philips VP Marty Gordon to Video Business. “Regardless of whether first-generation hardware supports these new features, the discs will still play.”

Unlike the HD DVD standard, Blu-ray players are not required to have Ethernet ports for firmware updates. Blu-ray machines with upgradable firmware likely will have a greater chance of conforming to the mandated format this fall.

Although HD DVD is not without its own set of early adopter issues, support for a standard programming language is already solidified for the format. HDi, an XML-based format developed by Microsoft and Toshiba, is mandatory on all HD DVD players and enables picture-in-picture special features to run alongside the feature length film.

Warner Bros. has released titles such as Batman Begins and V for Vendetta for HD DVD but not Blu-ray for the sole reason of the latter format’s lack of standardization. The upcoming Matrix trilogy release will also appear on HD DVD first for the same reason. Warner Bros. said that it would release Blu-ray Disc versions of such films in the fall, assumingly after the BD Java mandate takes effect.

Paramount has taken a different approach with Blu-ray’s apparent shortcoming. The studio released Mission: Impossible 3 on both HD DVD and Blu-ray, though the HD DVD version features a video picture-in-picture commentary, while the Blu-ray version does only with audio.

Only a couple Blu-ray movies feature picture-in-picture commentaries, those titles being Descent and Crank, though they do so without BD Java. Cleverly, and perhaps inelegantly, two complete versions of the movie are stored on a 50GB Blu-ray disc. One version contains the normal version of the film, while the second one features the picture-in-picture commentary hard-encoded on top of the film.

The addition of BD Java is not the only new requirement for Blu-ray players this fall. All players released after October 31 must hold a minimum 256MB of persistent memory storage. Those with network options will have to have 1GB of memory to support Web downloads.

Famed DVD producer, Van Ling, expresses discontent over the lack of standardization of the Blu-ray format. “The whole problem comes in when some manufacturers toe the minimum line and some others might make twice the minimum [functionality] on players,” said Ling. “In my view, I shouldn’t have to know what every single player can do. Rather than downgrade my creative vision for the lowest common denominator player, I want to create something [that fully realizes Blu-ray abilities].”



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At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/2007 9:05:05 PM , Rating: -1
You wouldn't be able to see commentary or special features

Thats not too bad... Unlike not being able to play the disc at all as is the case with HD DVD title "Children of Men"




RE: At the very worst....
By masher2 (blog) on 4/2/2007 9:07:46 PM , Rating: 3
Err, so in your opinion, a screwup like this that potentially affects all preexisting players, with every movie they play is "no big deal"...whereas a single HD-DVD movie with problems on it is a "debacle" that'll bring down the entire format?

You ARE a real fanboy, aren't you?


RE: At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/2007 9:11:44 PM , Rating: 2
I actually supported HD DVD for a long time, swore I wouldn't but a Blu Ray player, but with so few new releases, and practically no PC drives Blu Ray has my support. I would imagine that the early adopters, who paid 1k for a player, wouldn't be too aggravated at buying a new player at a third of that oringal price if they had too. This, of course, affects so few people, as most Blu Ray players also double as a PS3 :)


RE: At the very worst....
By AlexWade on 4/2/2007 9:29:02 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-Ray has more drives you can buy from Newegg. HD DVD has more drives you can buy pre-installed. HP, Samsung, Toshiba --> HD DVD computers. Dell, Sony --> Blu-Ray. Someone check that to make sure.

If I was a BR owner, I'd be royally ticked. HD DVD worked right from the start; Blu-Ray made everybody beta testers and charges twice as much. If not for PS3, Blu-Ray would have sunk like LaserDisc despite having studio support. And, for a fact, you can find HD DVD players less than $300 on the internet. And rumors are circulating that $100 or $200 HD DVD players will be available soon. Granted, they are Wal-Mart cheap brands, but Wal-Mart cheap DVD players made DVD successful. If $200 players come out before Christmas, I believe HD DVD will win. If not, Blu-Ray will win.

Of course, I want a Blu-Ray player, but can't afford even a PS3. I do have the HD DVD add-on for the 360. I am impressed by the stuff HD DVD does that Blu-Ray can't, even with BDJ. Although Blu-Ray has more storage space, HD DVD is the superior technology. Still, I want a Blu-Ray player, but I will always favor HD DVD because it is better.


RE: At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/07, Rating: -1
RE: At the very worst....
By saratoga on 4/2/2007 9:44:36 PM , Rating: 1
You can actually flip an HD-DVD disk over, just like DVDs. I don't see that being a serious issue. Very few movies are going to need more then 30GB anyway (which is why so many BlueRay movies are single layer 25GB disks anyway). Those that need it can just have 2 sides.


RE: At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/2007 9:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
Well here is the Issue

In the States you usually have 3 Audio Streams in English, French and Spanish. And the English one add Regular channel, 5.1, and now some form of Lossless and that starts taking up some room. In addition to the movie and special features. Movie like LOTR which is bound to have every form of Audio and is almost 3 hours long may be pushing it for 30GB


RE: At the very worst....
By The Sword 88 on 4/2/2007 10:13:09 PM , Rating: 1
A couple languages on one side, a couple other languages on the other side, problem solved


RE: At the very worst....
By saratoga on 4/3/2007 9:57:48 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree. Multiple languages seem the least likely to cause a problem. Its not hard to have an English/Spanish side and a French/German side (or whatever).

Also, i think its fairly ridiculous to say that lossless will be a factor at all. Consumers don't even know what lossless is. Not saying I approve, but as far as the market is concerned, you could put 256k AC3 tracks on there and 98% of people would never notice. Hell, 98% of current HD-DVD and Bluray buyers wouldn't know the difference as long as they got the right number of channels.


RE: At the very worst....
By Lakku on 4/3/2007 1:23:16 PM , Rating: 2
People buying HD-DVD and Blu-Ray now know what lossless is. Why spend 1k on a player and not have the equipment to support lossless? No, I think the early adopters know about lossless, and will want to use it. Neither of these formats are anywhere close to mainstream, so people buying them now know more about what they are jumping into. With that said, it is the reason I use Blu-Ray over my HD-DVD add on for my 360, because the 360 and many HD-DVD titles don't have lossless tracks, while most Blu-Ray movies do. And yes, it makes a very noticeable difference.


RE: At the very worst....
By masher2 (blog) on 4/3/2007 1:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
> "Neither of these formats are anywhere close to mainstream"

That's the point. They're not mainstream...and the diference in lossless or not isn't going to propel either of them into that mainstream.


RE: At the very worst....
By Oregonian2 on 4/3/2007 1:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
And if one can really tell lossless over high rate quality compression in a movie, one REALLY wants direct to disk vinyl, not any of this digital stuff that ruins things inherently to start with anyway.

:-)


RE: At the very worst....
By Wolfpup on 4/3/2007 2:28:26 PM , Rating: 2
You can stick another layer on the reverse side of a Blu Ray disc too...and really the more layers you stick on each, the bigger the capacity difference grows.


RE: At the very worst....
By creathir on 4/2/2007 10:39:58 PM , Rating: 5
That is TOTALLY false...

BetaMax had higher quality... storage space limited, but not the REASON for failure.

Sony killed BetaMax. Their INSISTANCE on using formats that they developed and similarly could license.

The other issue was that they changed formats several times to attempt to keep up with VHS, and this caused TONS of confusion in the marketplace.

The company that has also brought us such wonderful hits as Memorystick, Minidisk, and UMD have brought us another gem in the form of BluRay, once again messing with formats... once again confusing all but those of us that are technology literate.

Way to go Sony...

- Creathir


RE: At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/2007 10:53:49 PM , Rating: 2
their track record is horrible no doubt,

But Sony is not the only backer of Blu Ray, and studios as well as some Major computer makers support it as well


RE: At the very worst....
By Frank M on 4/3/2007 10:58:30 AM , Rating: 3
Didn't the have a large part in brining us the Compact Disk?


RE: At the very worst....
By shaw on 4/3/2007 12:33:19 AM , Rating: 1
Betamax was killed because it was a proprietary format. Something that Sony is great at doing and making everybody mad at them for.


RE: At the very worst....
By deeznuts on 4/2/2007 10:11:57 PM , Rating: 4
I won't comment on which one is worst or who is a fanboy, but seriously, who the F wants PIP while watching a movie? I didn't even know this was a feature. As long as the movie plays, I'm fine.

I have a PS3, so it might be upgradeable. I am buying an HD DVD addon to put in my computer, as soon as my lazy arse feels like vinyl dying the drive black. I guarantee you I won't be using PIP


RE: At the very worst....
By creathir on 4/2/2007 10:42:40 PM , Rating: 2
The benefit would not come in the actual movie, but rather in the menu system. Live, unrendered video of... video...

Today, this is done, but with a rendering of the scene.

Or imagine watching the director's cut with comments turned on, and it pops up a "more info" popup, and you hit it, and up comes a video of the directory talking about the scene.

For some... less animated directors... this is a worthless feature. But for ones that really get into the storytelling process, it would be quite worthwhile.

Those are just TWO places where I could see it as a benefit.

- Creathir


RE: At the very worst....
By sapiens74 on 4/2/2007 10:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
Some movies its worthless, but others, especially the more epic type movies this would be really cool

Or something like the Planet Earth series to be able to see addition information on the animal life, or something


RE: At the very worst....
By smitty3268 on 4/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: At the very worst....
By bplewis24 on 4/3/2007 12:28:59 PM , Rating: 2
You will be able to see the commentaries and special features, just not while also watching the movie.

Brandon


RE: At the very worst....
By masher2 (blog) on 4/3/2007 12:32:24 PM , Rating: 2
Not if those special features require BD Java (which many do), or are encoded instream.


"Game reviewers fought each other to write the most glowing coverage possible for the powerhouse Sony, MS systems. Reviewers flipped coins to see who would review the Nintendo Wii. The losers got stuck with the job." -- Andy Marken














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