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eBay's new Detailed Seller Ratings
eBay adds Detailed Seller Ratings to its feedback system

eBay has decided to make the first significant change to its feedback system in over 11 years with the announcement of Feedback 2.0. In addition to the standard positive, neutral and negative ratings, Feedback 2.0 will also provide four additional categories, where buyers can individually rate sellers on called Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs).

The four new categories are: Item as described, Communication, Shipping time and Shipping and Handling charges. Buyers will be able to rate sellers on a 5-star rating scale on each category.

According to eBay, the DSRs do not affect a seller's overall feedback score, but are put in place to help gauge a seller's performance in key areas. "We expect buyers to purchase from sellers who have high stars on the dimensions most important to them," said Brian Burke, Senior Manager, Global Policy Management for eBay.

Other changes include the addition of the item title and selling price under each feedback entry on a seller's feedback page. Previously, only the feedback comment along with the feedback rating and item number were included.

eBay plans to roll out Feedback 2.0 in Australia, Belgium, France, India, Ireland, Italy, Poland and the United Kingdom within the next few days. Feedback 2.0 will be launched in the United States this spring.

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By CKDragon on 3/8/2007 9:53:46 AM , Rating: 5
I hope that people will be willing use these new ratings realistically and will not be afraid to throw around the 0-4 star ratings when necessary.

For example: There have been times when I've requested a tracking number several times from a seller and not received a reply at all. However, I would receive the item perfectly fine.

Under the old system you would feel pressured to give a positive because the end result was fine. Hopefully, with the new system it will not be so taboo to give out neutral/negative type ratings in areas where the other party deserves it.

RE: Hopefully...
By Brandon Hill on 3/8/2007 10:00:25 AM , Rating: 5
But there's a flip-side to the argument. Buyers can sometimes be HIGHLY annoying and highly demanding ;)

I sell a lot on eBay and I automatically send out tracking emails to buyers whenever I ship an item (as do most sellers). I also email them to confirm I have received PayPal payment. When I ship a package via USPS, DHL or UPS, an automatic email is sent out to the buyer's PayPal email address giving them the time of shipment and the tracking number.

But it NEVER fails that I get someone at least 5 times a week asking me "Did you send it, I didn't get a tracking number." HELLO, check your inbox!!!!!

Sometimes, when the automatic email is sent out, I get a bounceback saying that the email address isn't valid. Mostly, this is b/c the buyer may have changed their email address, but still left it on file with PayPal. Is this my fault? Nope. Update your records!!!!

RE: Hopefully...
By Desslok on 3/8/2007 10:06:03 AM , Rating: 3
On a side note, I hope this helps gets rid of those stupid a++++++++++++++++++++++ posters.

RE: Hopefully...
By jskirwin on 3/8/2007 10:07:02 AM , Rating: 2
But there's a flip-side to the argument. Buyers can sometimes be HIGHLY annoying and highly demanding ;)

You got that right. Doing about 50-50 buying/selling I see both sides and think that buyers should be rated too. I've had to beg buyers for payment way too often, sending email after email only to finally get a check 2 weeks after the auction closed.

Of course, email communication is further complicated by the number of spoofs - I get about 5 a day for eBay alone - thereby making correspondence that more difficult.

RE: Hopefully...
By Brandon Hill on 3/8/2007 10:25:40 AM , Rating: 1
I weed out those crappy buyers with eBay's buyer requirements. I set mine up to block those who:

1) Don't live in the US
2) Don't have a PayPal account
3) Have a feedback score of -1 or lower
4) Have received 2 unpaid bidder strikes in the past 30 days

That weeds out 99% of the scumbags. I still get on average 1 deadbeat a month. I then just report them through eBay and get my listing fees and final value fees credited back.

RE: Hopefully...
By mino on 3/8/2007 11:07:58 AM , Rating: 4
2) - 4) are pretty reasonable, as for 1):

The fact someone does not live in the US means nothing to sellers security. (Ofcourse provided the seller is not stupid...)
I usually pay for items in hours after ending via PayPal. I Kinda do not see the risk when you've got the money allready?
And it is irritating when you see item beeing sold for $35 while you would pay even $45 for it, had seller not excluded you by his self-righteous policy.
Actually the international buyer is at risk as he has pretty much no guarantee that you will ship the stuff.

And why do I buy stuff from US? Simply because some stuff was never sold outside US or is unavailable/impossible to find elsewhere...

Also calling anyone outside US crappy is pretty rude.
While one can call someone crappy seller for not selling abroad, I usually prefer to take into account that he has his reasons.

One should not insult someone for asking to pay him money! Period.

RE: Hopefully...
By geeg on 3/8/2007 11:10:46 AM , Rating: 5
I sold notebooks to UK, Europe and Canada. They pay by paypal (fees are ~2% higher). They are generally more civilized than U.S. counterparts.

RE: Hopefully...
By jskirwin on 3/8/2007 1:01:53 PM , Rating: 2
I sold notebooks to UK, Europe and Canada. They pay by paypal (fees are ~2% higher). They are generally more civilized than U.S. counterparts.

Well of course they are. Their accent makes them sound more "civilized" to American ears. Rest assured, they are just as uncivilized as the rest of us.

I sell internationally and don't have a problem with the extra time it takes. However that time can be considerable given the glacial service at the average USPS location and the fact that you can't fill out customs forms on Paypal labels.

Worse, selling abroad exposes sellers to more risk since Paypal and Ebay only insure domestic transactions.

So while I continue to sell to everyone, I completely understand why many sellers refuse to.

RE: Hopefully...
By Brandon Hill on 3/8/2007 1:03:57 PM , Rating: 1
This man speaks the truth.

With domestic shipments, I can fill out a shipping label online and drop it off at USPS drop box or my local Mail-n-More and be done with it.

With international shipments, I have to wait in line at the post office to do the customs paperwork which is a hassle.

That and the lack of protection for the seller is enough for me to JUST SAY NO!

RE: Hopefully...
By FoxFour on 3/9/2007 12:09:10 AM , Rating: 3
This is mostly the fault of US Customs.

I live in western Canada and buy quite a few goods from the UK and the US via eBay, and I prefer the UK sellers BY FAR simply because of the shipping speed.

I generally receive parcels from the UK in 4-5 days if shipped by airmail, 7-8 days by surface. From the US it's more like 10 days by airmail, a month by surface.

I cannot describe just how pathetic it is to receive surface post from across the Atlantic as fast as (sometimes faster than) airmail on the same continent.

RE: Hopefully...
By Souka on 3/8/2007 5:58:11 PM , Rating: 2
I love international buyers

Sold over 100 IBM 600E laptops (P2-300) over the course of several months in small lots for around $200-300 apiece...(2003-2004). In the US market, they rarely fetched $200/ea

My company was actually paying someone to haul them away....

RE: Hopefully...
By Wonga on 3/8/2007 12:34:41 PM , Rating: 2
I think the point that was being made was that if you don't ship outside your own country then you don't get half as many time wasters. I'm in the UK and only ship to the UK, due to this. I don't think that all people outside of the UK are the problem, but some from certain areas of the world are scammers.

As long as one part of the world is poorer than the others then there will continue to be a large number of scams coming from those poorer countries (Nigeria and China in my experience).

RE: Hopefully...
By Brandon Hill on 3/8/2007 12:44:24 PM , Rating: 3
I don't sell to people outside of the U.S. because I have to adjust my methods of shipping and have to fill out customs forms. There is also often extra time involved with shipping delivery.

And people WERE ALWAYS asking me to put a much lower value on the item for customs/tax purposes. That and the incident where it took 4 weeks for a laptop to get to Australia via Global Express mail soured my experience with dealing with buyers outside of the US, so I cut out the process altogether.

There are plenty of other sellers out there to buy from.

RE: Hopefully...
By jpeyton on 3/8/2007 12:59:34 PM , Rating: 3
Brandon is absolutely correct about not selling to international buyers. I have the same policy for one simple reason: zero PayPal seller protection for international transactions. Until that policy changes, I don't see any reason to go through the hassle of international sales.

FWIW, before I stopped international sales, I sold to a lot of great international buyers.

RE: Hopefully...
By plowak on 3/8/2007 2:35:42 PM , Rating: 2
I would just like to bring this to your attention: Alaska is NOT a foreign country. Yet a significant number of sellers won't ship to Alaska - even when offering to cover increased shipping costs. We have the same USPS, speak the same language, have the same customs (well, sort off)and bleed the same red blood. So, how is it that some of you won't ship to us?

RE: Hopefully...
By Brandon Hill on 3/8/2007 3:05:52 PM , Rating: 2
I ship to people in Hawaii and Alaska. I just stipulate in my auctions that they MUST contact me BEFORE bidding for updated shipping charges.

RE: Hopefully...
By timmiser on 3/8/2007 4:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
I don't sell to people outside of the U.S. because I have to adjust my methods of shipping and have to fill out customs forms.

That is just not true. You only need to complete an export declaration if the value exceeds $2500. However, even if that is the case, the shipping companies have their export decs built into the waybills so other than stating the commodity and value, that is all there is to it.

RE: Hopefully...
By frobizzle on 3/9/2007 8:09:34 AM , Rating: 2

1) Don't live in the US
2) Don't have a PayPal account
3) Have a feedback score of -1 or lower
4) Have received 2 unpaid bidder strikes in the past 30 days

I agree with all but number 2. I have a PayPal account but have never used it, nor will I ever use it. I don't like it and if you will not accept a money order sent within 24 hours of winning the auction, then the hell with you! There are always other sellers.

RE: Hopefully...
By Moishe on 3/8/2007 10:31:22 AM , Rating: 2
Same here... I shipped something off this morning. Got paid last night. Sent buyer the tracking # and used the UPS QuantumView tool to sign us both up for automatic progress emails.

I think if you ship quick and communicate often, most people are likely to be very pleased.

There are some who will screw you over in a heart beat or complain about the smallest things. Sellers are the ones taking the risk. We take the hits when someone wins a bid and doesn't pay, or claims they never got the product when they did.

RE: Hopefully...
By Mitch101 on 3/8/2007 2:00:05 PM , Rating: 2
Legitimate Honest sellers take the risk.

The problem is there is a lot of scum sellers on e-bay too. E-bay needs to eliminate sellers with lots of negative feedback. Say 5% and higher. I have seen too many sellers with 90% positive feedback on hundreds of items. On 1000 items that means 100 people got something else. Of course people should steer clear of these sellers but e-bay could certainly close the account. Of course they would just create a new account but I rarely ever buy from anyone who hasnt sold more than 100 items with 99% feedback.

RE: Hopefully...
By Oregonian2 on 3/8/2007 6:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
That's part of the problem the first guy had. The automatic mail for UPS doesn't come from UPS, it comes from something like "QuantumView" or the like and until I figured this out, those emails probably went into my spamtrash folder as spam (which is what it sounds like). Those emails (subject line and sender) look like SPAM!

If UPS would have their automatic email come from UPS, it'd solve a lot of that I think.

RE: Hopefully...
By alcalde on 3/10/2007 1:36:51 PM , Rating: 2
> We take the hits when someone wins a bid and doesn't pay,

What "hit"? You've still got your item. You mean the listing fee or eBay cut?

Buyers are taking the real risks. Try sending someone $45, then they deactivate their e-mail address and you never hear from them or see their (non-existent) product. In my case, I bought several videos done as individual auctions, so they didn't meet the minimum amount for PayPal to reimburse me.

I also understand that there's a counterfeiter that's been operating on eBay for ages selling stamps, doing things like cleaning up lower-grade stamps and selling them as mint, altering stamps, etc. Some friends saved another friend when they were able to take information from an add and deduce that $2500 vintage car parts for sale were really modern knock-offs. I caught a scam on eBay where someone in China was selling GPS systems. Based on information I had, it should have been impossible for the seller to have that model with North American maps in Asia. He had positive feedback, but I checked those who left it and what they bought. It seems there were a handful of accounts involved - either accomplices or puppet accounts. This account had "bought" from them and they had "bought" from him, all one-bid auctions, sales ended early. Anyone who didn't examine the history of each feedback leaver and the auctions would have been fooled. eBay investigated and halted the sales and yanked the accounts. The prices he was offering were rather attractive, so if this hadn't happened some people could have been out hundreds of dollars.

If a seller gets payment up-front and sends their packages in a way that proof of delivery is generated, I see a lot less risk existing than someone sending their money to someone far away for unseen merchandise that might not exist, might be in poor condition, might be knock-off sold as genuine, or might be mispresented or altered - overclocked GPU or CPU sold as higher-end model, lower-end product innards put into higher-end case, etc.

RE: Hopefully...
By Mitch101 on 3/8/2007 10:52:04 AM , Rating: 1
I hate sellers that wait for you to leave feedback before they will leave you feedback.

I Paid with Buy it Now and Immediately through Pay pal so the seller should leave me feedback because I did everything fast and smooth. Yet they wait until I receive the product and leave them positive comments. This leaves me worried that the product may arrive not as described.

I would like to see a NUMBER referring to the # of days it takes a seller to leave feedback after an Item has been sold or paid for. I would almost begin to avoid those who wait for feedback before giving it. I would almost like to see a negative option for sellers that leave feedback after the buyer.

RE: Hopefully...
By geeg on 3/8/2007 11:09:11 AM , Rating: 3
The reason they wait is you may cause after sale problems like asking to return the item or so. There are many buyers out there who do not use feedback. Why leaving one for them and wait for them returning the favor.

RE: Hopefully...
By aos007 on 3/8/2007 12:59:33 PM , Rating: 2

That's not how it works. A seller NEEDS to wait for buyer to receive the item and then leave the feedback. Because only then the transaction is complete. WHY should the seller base its feedback only on the fact that the seller paid the item? There could be any number of problems - lost packages, "faked" lost packages, buyer unhappy with or without good reason, buyer filing the complaint to paypal etc. FEEDBACK SHOULD ONLY BE LEFT AFTER THE TRANSACTION IS COMPLETE.

RE: Hopefully...
By Mitch101 on 3/8/2007 1:55:07 PM , Rating: 1
HUH? How is shipping and items that arrived damaged worthy of negative feedback from a seller?

If a buyer pays quickly and provides the information to ship the item thier part is done. The rest is up to the seller so the buyer then deserve positive feedback because they have done thier part.

If the items arrive broken then thats what shipping insurance is for. Of course there are a lot of sellers who sell broken items off as working and try to blame it on the shipping. So if the buyer posts negative feedback they just post negative to the buyer even though the seller knows they sold defective junk. There are a number of E-bay sellers who know say 5% of their stuff is broken or defective yet they do well with 5% negative feedback and continue to sell that defective ratio claiming its in working order. There are also a number who will not ship 1 in 50 items because they can get away with a negative here and there and claim it was lost in shipping. I have even heard of people selling and shipping empty boxes so they have a tracking number to claim they shipped the item.

Shipping problems/excuses are not the fault of the buyer but the fault of shipping companies, liars on e-bay, and PAY PAL for not refunding bad transactions.

Its been my experience that sellers who wait for feedback after the buyer are usually selling items that are not entirely as advertised.

As well as sellers who leave positive feedback after the cash has exchanged hands usually have perfect ratings.

We can blame e-bay for a lot of this but PAY PAL needs to be much better before E-bay can be that much better.

RE: Hopefully...
By timmiser on 3/8/2007 4:44:56 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree with you! I have a policy that as a buyer I will not leave feedback until the seller leaves it first. This is because those sellers are essentially holding your rightly deserved feedback "hostage" until the buyer leaves them positive feedback first which is wrong. Like you stated, once the money has been paid and shipping address provided in a timely fashion, that is the point in the transaction where the seller should leave positive feedback because the buyer has done everything exactly correct per the buyer's auction requirements.

If ebay really wanted to fix their feedback system, they should require that feedback be left in this order.

This would be like buying a TV at Best Buy and the salesman will not say "thank you" until you've said "thank you" first!

RE: Hopefully...
By Souka on 3/8/2007 6:20:32 PM , Rating: 2
I also agree with u guys, as a person who's bought quite a bit in recent times I hated sellers that wouldn't leave feedback untill I did...

but.... As a seller, I've left feedback and then had the buyer leave me negative feedback because the USPS Priority mail took 5 days to get to him... It took a fair amount of my time to get his negative comment revoked.

So when I sell stuff sometimes, and the buyer doesn't have a strong eBay history, I'll hold my feedback until he posts his...

RE: Hopefully...
By geeg on 3/8/2007 11:07:00 AM , Rating: 2
I believe this system will make sellers even more alien because they will not care about the feedback anymore. We will lose the perfectionist sellers. Besides it will be harder to filter out or differentiate the sellers using the more complicated feedback.

RE: Hopefully...
By geeg on 3/8/2007 11:15:19 AM , Rating: 2
So you expect a seller answer your question besides answering all the buyers questions. Imagine this seller is a single person and sells really $1 cheap items with a slight profit margin, say 20 cent per item. Imagine he/she sells 10,000 items per month and does not have time to answer any question at all.
There are many sellers like this one in ebay.

RE: Hopefully...
By kring on 3/8/2007 11:53:00 AM , Rating: 2
eBay's feedback system sucks and this is no better. Until the stop promoting and supporting retaliatory feedback their system is useless and the Buyer gets screwed every time!!!!

A buyers feedback against a seller should not even be available until that seller has submitted feedback on the buyer. Then if the buyer has a bad experience he's afraid to post negative marks because the seller will retaliate and there's nothing the buyer can do. so the buyer either doesn't get to voice his negative feedback, and also doesn't receive positive feedback.

It's a horrible system that's there only for Sellers to rat out non-paying buyers, eBay promotes and recommends sellers hold retaliatory feedback against the buyers as a way to maintain their high ratings.

Many sellers have far worse ratings then their eBay feedback rating leads the consumer to believe.

RE: Hopefully...
By bamacre on 3/8/2007 12:04:11 PM , Rating: 2
"A buyers feedback against a seller should not even be available until that seller has submitted feedback on the buyer. "

You are an idiot. There are tons of reasons why the BUYER should leave feedback first.

If you ever sell on Ebay, LOL, let me know. I'll pay with a CC, let you leave me positive feedback, then I'll do a chargeback on my credit card, and you'll have zero retaliation.

RE: Hopefully...
By kring on 3/8/2007 12:48:47 PM , Rating: 1
No, there's no reason why a buy should leave feedback for a seller first. your grading the transaction. The purchase comes before the delivery. the Seller should leave feedback on the buyer. If I did an instant payment I should get positive feedback. then when the product arrives, I'll leave feedback on how well the shipper performed.

A buyer should NEVER leave positive feedback for a Seller before receiving the item. you are an idiot yourself if you blindly leave positive feedback for sellers when you haven't received the product.

Charge backs are not a valid reason to promote and support a retaliatory feedback system.. don't be an ass.

And for the record I'm a top-1000 seller on ebay, you've probably bought electronics from me at some point and as a seller I think the system is a joke.

RE: Hopefully...
By aos007 on 3/8/2007 1:06:18 PM , Rating: 2
That's crazy. NEVER LEAVE FEEDBACK UNTIL TRANSACTION IS COMPLETE. The fact that buyer paid is only a part of the information you need to post the feedback. Not until it's in their hands - and unfortunately their feedback is the only way to know that.

I do agree the system is flawed though. Whoever gives feedback first is at the mercy of the person leaving it later. If they would address that issue, it would work out much better (e.g. make feedback a two-phase affair, or make it not visible to anyone until both parties enter it).

RE: Hopefully...
By bamacre on 3/8/2007 3:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
Then I'd like to know your Ebay username. Please.

The process goes like this, numbnuts...

Buyer pays for item.
Seller ships item.
Buyer receives item.
Buyer leaves positive feedback.
Seller leaves positive feedback.

Anything else is DUMB. And, yes, I am an Ebay PowerSeller, and it shouldn't be hard to find me (for someone smarter than you).

RE: Hopefully...
By Oregonian2 on 3/8/2007 6:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
That's how it goes most of the time but maybe a third of the time the seller leaves feedback before I the buyer do.

I'm not a power anything though, I'm just a buyer (99% of the time) with a rating of around 360 or so who's done probably around 500~600 transactions (many sellers haven't given feedback at all, and of course the duplicates only count as one). Started on eBay near the beginning. Have no negatives at all.

RE: Hopefully...
By Oregonian2 on 3/8/2007 6:22:28 PM , Rating: 2
A buyer should NEVER leave positive feedback for a Seller before receiving the item.


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