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Commodore re-enters the market as a purpose built gaming PC

The Commodore is ready to make a splash back into the computer world with a new gaming computer that will be shown later this month during CeBIT in Germany.  Specifics of the computer remain scarce, but Commodore CEO Bala Keilman promises that the new Commodore PC is going to bring the Commodore brand back into the gaming industry.

"25 years ago, Commodore launched the best selling personal computer of the late 20th century, the C64, and defined the early computer games experience for millions of people worldwide," Keilman said in a statement. On the Commodore Gaming website, only a graphical teaser is posted for what will come.

The Commodore gaming PCs will be shown on March 15th, and will be live demo machines which will be playable. "We are privileged and excited to bring the commodore brand back to the gaming community and mark a new chapter in its history with this exceptional machine. We're sure that it will deliver what gamers need and want," said Keilman.

It appears that the PCs will be available for the European market on release, but the company did not rule out a launch in North America and Asia.  Commodore expects to make more more announcements soon.

The problem with a Commodore comeback is that the gaming market today is nothing like the one that the C64 entered 25 years ago -- Alienware and VoodooPC are two of the top tier companies already producing gaming PCs.  Also, the Microsoft Xbox360, Sony PlayStation 3 and Nintendo Wii are all strong competitors of PC gaming, with 41% of U.S. households reportedly now having video game consoles

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The question is will it come with Windows?
By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 9:32:42 AM , Rating: 5
Wlcome Back.
Will it come with Windows or a new version of the AMIGA OS?

Lets see if anyone remembers these:
LOAD ,8 ,1
How many bytes did the VIC-20 have on boot?

Showing my age now.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By rushfan2006 on 3/7/2007 10:50:51 AM , Rating: 3
I love this like strolling down memory lane with all these posts referring to the glory days of the C-64.

Yep guys I remember all that stuff...the 1541 drives, the cassette drives (remember those damn games that came on cassette, load "*",4,1 anyone? LOL).... I remember sitting for hours punching in code from Computer Gazette and COMPUTE! magazine to run the "hot game" of that issue....I remember one was just a graphical scene for about times changing, back then it was "fun" for me to type in all this code and see what it does. Today's generation that grew up on consoles would think watching paint dry is more exciting and they just wouldn't get it.

I remember Miner 2049, Wasteland was one of my favs -- if re-done in today's graphics and with today's god that game would rock. Mail order Monsters, Racing Destruction's Tale (when an RPG was REALLY an RPG!!)...Ultima, Phantasy, Wizardy, Might and Magic -- all of them is what RPGs were meant to be... ;)

Zork, Suspended...all the Infocom think today's crowd of gamers would enjoy them? LOL....I had a blast figuring those games out.

That's when you had to THINK to conquer a game.

Oh well I could go on...

Thanks for bringing the memories

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 11:35:18 AM , Rating: 2
I even typed in the Pitfall Harry flyer Activision sent out.

Back then at one point I thought when you cleared the screen you lost your program until I learned LIST. LOL. Thats where I initially learned to program in Basic.

By jbrave on 3/8/2007 5:09:37 PM , Rating: 3
Wow, your post really triggered a flashback! When I was a kid, I started out programming on an Apple II, then an Atari 400 (I spent most of my teenage years writing games for that machine). At school, we had the Apple II and some Commodore PET / CBM machines. When the C64 came out, I talked my computer teacher into getting a whole stack of them for the computer lab. Your post literally flashed me back to doing exactly what you said: cls,(or was it clear?) list! I wrote some astro-dodger games for the PET's, our one IBM PC, and and the C64, but the C64 wouldn't scroll the screen downward like the PET's would, I had to write it backwards, with the stars (asterisks) scrolling up the screen instead of down... I got a B in computers because I spent all my time writing games instead of doing the "official lessons"!

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By GoatMonkey on 3/7/2007 11:43:58 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, MULE was great. I never see anybody else list that one.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By SpaceRanger on 3/7/2007 12:25:43 PM , Rating: 2
Mail Order Monsters FTW!

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Gatt on 3/7/2007 1:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
God I loved that game,

Wish game developers would spend some time thinking along those lines again. Racing Destruction Set rocked too!

By dever on 3/10/2007 3:03:31 PM , Rating: 1
I had forgotten about Racing Destruction Set. I don't know if I've enjoyed many games as much as that one since.

By frobizzle on 3/7/2007 6:22:48 PM , Rating: 3
M.U.L.E. was and still is the best game ever. It was great as a single player and it was even better as multiplayer. I run a C64 emulator on my PC and have an image of M.U.L.E. It is still better than anything I have come across for the PC! Too bad Electronic Arts refuses to port it to the PC! :-(

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By catavalon21 on 3/7/2007 9:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, yes, M.U.L.E. - compliments of the Bunten Brothers from high in the hills of the Ozarks. I'm still on the lookout for Chrystite.

Also, Microsoft (yes, they wrote programs for the C64) Flight Simulator for the C64 actually required 2 joysticks - one for the throttle and one for pitch/yaw. Took getting used to, but worked quite well. Yeah, those were the days!

By Laughing all the way 2220 on 3/8/2007 1:48:14 PM , Rating: 2
Who remembers Beach Head and Silent Service? Yeah EA's collection of Summer and Winter games was a blast. Who remembers the Basement Boys and Fast Hack 'em? I must have had like 50 games and what was the best was you could play them again and again and again and it would still be fun. There haven't been any games out like that since. Games today you play once and that's it.

And who remembers having to replace the power supply- lol!

By Misty Dingos on 3/7/2007 11:50:49 AM , Rating: 2
Wasteland Rocked! Elite was the bomb! And Wasteland did come back as Fallout 1 & 2. I may just have to drag my old 128D out of the attic and see if it still works.

By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 11:59:38 AM , Rating: 2
My Buddy had a 128D and never ran it as one. Only ran it in Commodore 64 mode.

Plus 4 or C16 anyone. :)

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Souka on 3/7/2007 3:55:45 PM , Rating: 2
Heh... I had an Apple ][+ (thats Apple 2+ for you noobs) back in 79'

One day my friend down the street called me and said he had a "real computer". I went and saw were better (COLOR!) but I just laughed at that poor pathetic cassette god, how slow.

My first Apple games were Castle Wolfenstein and Ultima (the original).

By MobileZone on 3/8/2007 3:22:42 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yes, I had the same problem with a school buddy... I had an Apple 2e and he had the Commodore. It was an eternal discussion about which was better. I had to agree that the sounds and graphics of the Commodore 64 were a bit better, but I loved my Apple like anything else.

Now I hate Apple(mac).

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By JonB on 3/7/2007 10:55:29 AM , Rating: 2
those aren't too hard

Load ,8 ,1 was to load a program from device 8, unit 1 (usually the only 1541 drive you had)

Poke and Peek were used to read a memory area, then put a new value into that area

Disk Nibbler - single sided floppies were a pain, but with the nibbler, you could use both sides. Make Flippies, not Floppies

Didn't have Miner, but played Summer Olympics a lot. The Skeet Shooting was great if you had a track ball.

but I never owned a Vic 20. :(

How about Easy Script and Superbase64? Essentially equivalent to old WordPerfect and dBaseIII+ only it remained floppy based.

Or the thermal color printer from Okidata, the Okimate!!

or did you have that funky plotter from Commodore. That was a demon possessed.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 11:32:28 AM , Rating: 3
We have a Winner. Yes they were easy. Not so easy firing up those old brain cells any more. Heck I used to calibrate 1541 hard drives using an osciliscope and a test disc. Look for the cats eyes.

YES the Okimate with its tri color ribbon. LOL.

No on the plotter but I did have a thermal printer from someone that I dont recall the name of.

Remember Line Numbers when programming: 10 GOSUB 40

Bring back the Joystick and Wico Trackball!!

I have the Commodore 64 emulator running on my X-box. I think the last game I played was Ghostbusters on it a long long time ago. I even bought the Commodore 64 on a Joystick that was out not long ago but I still havent removed it from the box. If only I had time to tinker with all the things I wanted to.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By ted61 on 3/7/2007 12:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
Do you still remember how to sync one of those old oscopes? I don't think fluke made the automatic portable 1ghz color models in those days.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 12:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
Yup. I had to connect the probe to the special ground connection and zero it out.

I bought mine from a newspaper. Remeber printed ads.

Thing was huge but worked great and was Dual trace.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By ted61 on 3/7/2007 12:15:07 PM , Rating: 2
I am forgetting what a cathode ray tube is. How do you expect me to remember a newspaper?

Give speed, automation and dynamic links.

They still need us old guys around to explain harmonics.

By Mitch101 on 3/7/2007 12:21:11 PM , Rating: 2
There was a time between Dinosaurs and E-Bay/Craigs List when Newspapers existed.

Im sure there is something on Discovery about this ancient technology thought to have been created by Aliens or Al Gore.

By blppt on 3/7/2007 5:31:40 PM , Rating: 2
Holy crap, you just reminded me of that POS Okimate printer...I remember the day we replaced that pile of useless, slow circuits with a cheap 9-pin black dot matrix printer was like the greatest invention ever.

Lord, that was an absolutely awful, slow printer. It didnt do anything well. Those were the days when I had to print something like 10 times before all the pages came out legible enough. Bleh.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By Rollomite on 3/7/2007 12:40:44 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I was more a fan of Winter Games. And out of all of these posts, I can't believe that Hardball! wasn't mentioned once. In my opinion, the greatest baseball game of it's time. Anyone remember the screwball? How about Barbarians? I'll never forget the amazement when I lopped off my opponent's head, and the little green imp would come out and kick it across the screen. Oh, those were the days....


RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By cubby1223 on 3/7/2007 2:39:11 PM , Rating: 2
Hardball and the "Fat Pitch"

The original summer games wasn't that great, the pole vault was good, but the rest not so much. Summer games II was where it was at. Triple jump, javelin, swimming, cycling, equestrian. Especially when we bought these games second hand (had the original disks) and didn't have any manuals to tell us how to play these games, we just had to figure out the proper joystick movements by trial and error. We never could figure out the high jump.

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By blppt on 3/7/2007 5:36:34 PM , Rating: 2
"Hardball and the "Fat Pitch"

Nope, that would be:



My personal favorite C64 game was Gunship by Microprose.

Too bad they dont exist anymore. Their games always pushed the C64 graphically.

By dever on 3/10/2007 3:09:14 PM , Rating: 1
Has anyone mentioned Jumpman? I remember tweaking files on the floppy to allow me to directly access any of the leves (there were about 50)... until I overwrote something important (oops).

By blppt on 3/7/2007 5:46:33 PM , Rating: 2
Also, 4th & Inches (also by Accolade) was one hell of a football game for its time. No real players (same as Hardball!), but it was really fun to play.

By GotDiesel on 3/7/2007 1:07:41 PM , Rating: 2
memory lane... lol..

windoze .. that would be a step backwards..
to be successful, the product needs to be different..
else why buy it ?

RE: The question is will it come with Windows?
By JBird7986 on 3/7/2007 2:08:56 PM , Rating: 2
One word: Ghostbusters.

By frobizzle on 3/7/2007 6:26:17 PM , Rating: 2
One word: Ghostbusters.

LOL! I remember that one. It was one of the first attempts at speech synthesis on the C-64. Sounded more like Alvin and the Chipmunks!

By timmiser on 3/7/2007 7:33:51 PM , Rating: 2
Graphics 1,0,14,8

Sorry... I was an Atari 800 zealot all the way.

Down to Commodorks!


By Christopher1 on 3/8/2007 3:01:51 AM , Rating: 2
You are not showing your age really. I still remember those Commodore commands, because my family's first computer WAS a Commodore back when I was 3!

It did thing pretty good, though the graphics were LOUSY. That's the only real beef I had with Commodore systems, their graphics, even at the time they were out, were seriously dated compared to a Nintendo.

By Christopher1 on 3/8/2007 3:01:52 AM , Rating: 2
You are not showing your age really. I still remember those Commodore commands, because my family's first computer WAS a Commodore back when I was 3!

It did thing pretty good, though the graphics were LOUSY. That's the only real beef I had with Commodore systems, their graphics, even at the time they were out, were seriously dated compared to a Nintendo.

If this is another Windows PC...
By kelmon on 3/7/2007 5:18:19 AM , Rating: 4
My first computer ever was a C64 and I loved it. In this respect I have a fondness for the old Commodore brand and the wonderful games that it introduced me to, like The Last Ninja, Turrican and others. However, if this is just going to be another "gaming PC' built around off-the-shelf components and Windows Vista then it will be a sad day as the brand reappears only to disappear immediately into a pool already filled with others. It would be nice to see them do something different, something that lives up to the legacy but I somehow doubt that this wil happen. Wait and see, I guess...

By DublinGunner on 3/7/2007 6:00:22 AM , Rating: 2
I hope they managed to put all the PC components into the back of the keyboard!!!

Oh, the memories! I also hope the logo remains the same.

By danskmacabre on 3/7/2007 6:02:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yep, was my first computer as well.
I bought it to play Elite and Ultima 2 the RPg.

It'd be a real blast from the past to see Commodore back in the market.

Mind you, I'd need to see a lot more information before I'd consider buying one of these new incarnations

RE: If this is another Windows PC...
By BladeVenom on 3/7/2007 7:26:04 AM , Rating: 2
Of course it's another Windows PC.

RE: If this is another Windows PC...
By danskmacabre on 3/7/2007 7:44:15 AM , Rating: 2
I did assume it would be a windows machine.
I'm guessing since comparisons have been made in the article to alienware etc, Commodore will be a brand of PC manufacturer.

So all you're really buying iss a brand name.
Would be nice though to have a commodore machine for a laugh, although I generally build my own PCs anyway.

If they are cost effective I might make an exception.

By PitViper007 on 3/7/2007 8:32:32 AM , Rating: 3
I actually didn't have the C64, but a buddy of mine did, and that was probably one of the most fun systems I've used. MY first PC however WAS a Commodore Colt, which was an "IBM Clone" Not a bad machine for then (8088 processor, dual 5 1/4" floppies, no hard drive, CGA graphics, etc.) I was able to use it for a while, putting a hard drive into it (10 MB), an EGA graphics card (was a big boost from the 4 color CGA to the 16 color EGA), and a VIC 20 processor. That's when being a computer geek really meant


sys 65126
By darkpuppet on 3/7/2007 8:59:50 AM , Rating: 2
While I'm glad to see commodore coming back, it would have been nice to see them come back with something original.

But I can only hope that they do the brand name proper by building a machine that innovates, not just immitates.

Cutting edge memory, cutting edge graphics, cutting edge sound. All at family-affordable prices.

They were computers that could do things a machine you built yourself could never do... and that's not an easy thing to do today.

I just get the feeling they're just trying to cash in on the retro vibe. They need a good hard reset... a sys 65126 as it were.

RE: sys 65126
By JonB on 3/7/2007 9:13:37 AM , Rating: 2
darkpuppet, you must have had a FastLoad card, also. Entering Sys commands. How powerful I felt. With dual 1541 floppy drives daisy chained together using a SERIAL BUS. How futuristic.

RE: sys 65126
By darkpuppet on 3/7/2007 9:32:12 AM , Rating: 2, I didn't actually...

We did use TurboTape tho(typed in from Compute! gazzette I believe)

People complain about load times today... they never waited 5 minutes for Forbidden Forest or Caverns of Kafkha to load only to have them crash upon load.

RE: sys 65126
By Hare on 3/7/2007 12:37:29 PM , Rating: 2
they never waited 5 minutes for Forbidden Forest or Caverns of Kafkha to load only to have them crash upon load.
5min? I remember games taking a lot longer to load. I remember starting Ghostbusters on an SMX before leaving to school just to be able to play when I came back.

Btw. I remember maybe 10 years ago there were Commodore PCs so this isn't really anything new.

RE: sys 65126
By frobizzle on 3/7/2007 6:31:11 PM , Rating: 2
People complain about load times today... they never waited 5 minutes for Forbidden Forest or Caverns of Kafkha to load only to have them crash upon load.

Five minutes? Try Telengard. It took 15 minutes to load from tape! And that's assuming that the drive didn't crash! I was so amazed at the lightning speeds when I upgraded to a 1541 floppy drive!

Press Play On Tape
By BubbaJoe TBoneMalone on 3/7/2007 8:32:36 AM , Rating: 3
I watched a show on PBS showing the history of video games, the consoles, and arcade games. It's pretty fascinating.

Video Game Revolution -

My brother and I were so happy to get PONG then later on an ATARI. My first computer was the Commodore VIC-20. Zork series was the best adventure games back then.

RE: Press Play On Tape
By Spivonious on 3/7/2007 9:19:04 AM , Rating: 2
Zork is the best adventure game series :-P

RE: Press Play On Tape
By frobizzle on 3/7/2007 6:36:06 PM , Rating: 2

Zork is the best adventure game series :-P

Yup! I remember working for weeks on end on it! Figured everything out in Zork 1 except how to get into the white house! LOL!

RE: Press Play On Tape
By dever on 3/10/2007 3:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
I bet if I looked hard enough I could find the detailed maps my little brother and I would make while playing Zork. Probably still in the closet along with the C64... yes, I still have it. Does it work? I don't know.

how many times now?
By TSS on 3/7/2007 9:37:04 AM , Rating: 3
the brand has exchanged alot of hands about now and everything they tried so far is bring something entirely random on the market using commodore as a known name. that sickens me.

so. IF they make just another PC like alienware with a commodore sticker on the front we will see another compagny go down the tubes, which is always fun.

OR, they make a gaming console that plays PC games, is quite powerfull, looks like a very bulky keyboard, and has a commodore 64 (bit, not ram :P) logo on it, i would even consider buying one.

but lets be real, the thing that made the C64 so damned succesfull where the simple yet addictive games. even if they come out with a machine twice the power of the PS3 at not even half the cost, then make very lowsy clones of very lowsy games released at very lowsy times i wont have anything to do with Commodore ever again.

if they do take the console route though i wonder if they'd put the games on them huge floppy's again :P hey, afterall technology has advanced a little so i guess they could put more then half a megabyte on them :P

RE: how many times now?
By GoatMonkey on 3/7/2007 11:52:50 AM , Rating: 2
I sort of hope they make it a Linux box marketed as a gaming machine. It has to be a low end machine, that's where they originally took off. The hard part would be getting people to make more games for Linux.

Load "*",8,1
By 457R4LDR34DKN07 on 3/7/2007 4:58:29 AM , Rating: 2
Best news I heard all year... welcome back

RE: Load "*",8,1
By SquidianLoveGod on 3/7/2007 5:30:13 AM , Rating: 2
Wewt! I never thought I would hear this news!
Now all we need back is Sega :)
I remember how fun it was making simple games using BASIC (beginners all purpose symbolic instruction code)
Back then you didn't get demo discs in a magazine you had all the CODE in the magazine to write one up yourself!
This news has made my day! Lets hope they can revive the old classic! And bring it into the modern era!

By blackseed on 3/7/2007 1:02:07 PM , Rating: 2
I remember playing the tough copy protection for those games back then. You had to use parameters or something like that to copy games.

Some goodies are:

Wasteland (Days and days without sleep)
Bards Tale (and other Days and days without sleep)
Geo OS (Funny GUI OS)
ABC Monday Night Football (Right after school I would always play)
Magic Candle I (More days in my room)
Zork Series (God, this kept me up for days)

RE: Games
By darkempire on 3/8/2007 9:13:52 AM , Rating: 2
Skate or DIE Anyone

i remember killing joysticks with games like Sumer games, Decathlon, skate or die, caveman ugh olympics, worldgames,...

talking about compatability i could use my old atari 2600 joystick on my C64

those where the days

Alienware and VoodooPC? Please.
By TrogdorJW on 3/7/2007 1:19:56 PM , Rating: 2
Alienware and VoodooPC are two of the top tier companies already producing gaming PCs...

Sure, and between those two companies how many systems do they sell a month? And how much does the average system cost? Those are boutique system manufacturers, and their PCs tend to be exorbitantly priced. I'd love to see someone tackle the streamlined-yet-potent midrange gaming market in a meaningful way. Oh, wait... we've got Dell, Gateway, HP and others making pretty reasonable gaming systems, not to mention companies like ABS, iBUYPOWER, CyberPower, etc. that can all build a good quality gaming PC that won't cost more than $1500. Then there's the huge DIY market, which was practically non-existent back in the early 80s when Commodore made its mark.

If Commodore aims to be successful, they're going to need more than just a Windows PC running midrange components priced at ~$1500 or less. I'm curious to see what they're shoveling... er... offering, but skeptical at best.

RE: Alienware and VoodooPC? Please.
By Webgod on 3/10/2007 10:51:49 PM , Rating: 2
I'd love to see someone tackle the streamlined-yet-potent midrange gaming market in a meaningful way.

Whoops, it has kickassium.

By Front242 on 3/9/2007 12:14:20 PM , Rating: 2
I still have a working C64 in original pkg w the optional floppy Drive. I remember that the drive was expensive. and took me forever to save up for it. lol

RE: C64
By Souka on 3/14/2007 12:43:21 PM , Rating: 2
floppy drive cost more than the C64....

mmmm SIDs
By zeroslugfm on 3/7/2007 6:09:06 AM , Rating: 3
Wouldn't it be nice if they included a SID chip AND midi connections in these machines~ Well, I can dream~ ;)

By Bladen on 3/7/2007 6:21:45 AM , Rating: 3
Then make the god dam sequel that was referred to in the game for cring out loud.

Great old company
By masher2 on 3/7/2007 8:40:03 AM , Rating: 2
A great company, which released some classic products. The Commodore PET was my second computer...the C64 my fourth or fifth...and had an Amiga while in college. Glad to see them back.

Commodore 6400
By eRacer on 3/7/2007 9:47:42 AM , Rating: 2
Great memories. Countless hours of my teen years were spent gaming and programming on Commodore systems, primarily the Commodore 64. I still have a few of them kicking around here.

If Commodore does sell PC gaming systems I'd like to see one launch system equipped with a C2D E6400 and a model name of "Commodore 6400". :) The E6400 CPU is a relatively powerful and affordable, both characteristics of the original C64.

Not an Amiga
By rupaniii on 3/7/2007 10:26:03 AM , Rating: 2
Amiga name is held by other people.
I can envision a portable C64 style machine using PCIE Mobile or some other cool tech.
That could do something for PC Gaming.

By rupaniii on 3/7/2007 11:46:58 AM , Rating: 2
Well, it looks like we are all to be disappointed.

and Channel64 Blog
By rupaniii on 3/7/2007 11:51:30 AM , Rating: 2
Remember Geos?
By pugster on 3/7/2007 12:47:25 PM , Rating: 2
The first time that I saw a real GUI interface was when I saw GEOS. Too bad it was extremely slow.

By Souka on 3/7/2007 4:04:22 PM , Rating: 2
It unlikely they'll be anything unique if they build a PC... unless the price is waayyyyy high.

They'll just be using mostly standard components...mainboard, CPU, Video Card, Memory modules and HD being the key players...

The PS, case, keyboard, and other stuff they might do themselves, or contract someone to modify or rebadge a product already made....

Xbox is a unique platform
PS3 is a unieque platform
PCs are also a platform

So unless they make a new "platform" it'll be another PC...just that is has a familiar name that the 30-45 year old once used....and hence, more likely to buy.

It's not going to work
By shaw on 3/7/2007 5:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
They have to do something new to get people to purchase their products. Making a fancy case and overcharging the consumer isn't going to make the Commodore line of PCs/Laptops sell with the competition that's out there. If they could come up with some exclusive PC designs (like what Dell does) then I could see it working. Heck, even if they did some customized Windows tweaks to make it a "gaming PC" that would be something.

I'm just hoping they're going going to make a flashy case, put in stock parts, and label it a "gaming PC" and expect people to pay top dollar.

I don't think it's realistically possible to make money in the PC market by trying to sell low. All they would be doing is cutting into their profits and they would have to cut funding to other departments like customer service. They got to be origional and practical and then they'll get my money.

"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein
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