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AMD's internal guidance suggests the company isn't very far from 45nm at all

Late last year, AMD executives alluded to a 45nm successor to the Barcelona core, dubbed Shanghai.  AMD's Senior Vice President, Marty Seyer, claimed Shanghai would specifically "bring further performance enhancements, as well as cache efficiency." 

Shanghai is apparently more than just a cache-bump.  AMD's documentation explicitly claims Shanghai will be the company's first 45nm processor.  However, with a die shrink additional cache is one of the immediate architecture options as the smaller node allows for more transistors to fit on the chip die.  Shanghai features 6MB of L3 cache.

Barcelona, the 65nm quad-core next-generation Opteron from AMD, is expected to launch this summer with 2MB of L3 cache.  L3 cache on the K10 architecture is shared over all four cores, yet each core has an independent L2 cache as well. More details on how this new cache operation works was detailed in June 2006 on DailyTech.

All other features found on Barcelona will also make an appearance on Shanghai: AMD-Virtualization (previously codenamed Presido), RDDR2, and HyperTransport 3.0.  Like Barcelona, Shanghai will also tentatively ship with dual and quad-core variants.  In 2008 AMD will tennatively add Secure Initialization to all its AMD-V platforms, including Shanghai.

Shanghai will also use the Socket 1207 interface, suggesting existing motherboards will have the opportunity to upgrade to Shanghai processors -- AMD processors are typically designed to work with existing motherboards on same-socket interfaces with simple BIOS updates.

AMD and IBM recently announced intentions to pursue the 45nm node with high-k metal gate technology.  Intel disclosed similar process technology information one day prior to the IBM-AMD announcement.  Late last year IBM detailed its plans for utilizing immersion lithography for its 45nm test shuttles -- Intel uses the same process as well.

In a recent interview with Reuters, AMD senior vice president of technology development Douglas Grose claimed "We'll be producing early products probably in Q2 of 2008, with full production in the second half."  However, Grose also claims the company is still anticipating whether or not it will use high-k metal gate technology in later 45nm revisions or if the company will wait until 32nm.

IBM will certainly play an integral role in any 45nm plans for AMD, though production on the 45nm node ramp is not something AMD has discussed at length.  AMD's first 65nm processors just hit store shelves a few weeks ago.

Intel's 45nm processor, codenamed Penryn, has already been taped-out.  Intel guidance suggests the processor will be available to the channel in Q1 2008.

AMD's Barcelona was previously labeled the K8L architecture by AMD President Henri Richard in March 2006. Late last year, AMD executives began using the name K10 instead, while internally the platform is labeled Greyhound.  On paper, Shanghai appears to be architecturally identical to Barcelona, but utilizes the smaller node.


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RE: Competition is good, but...........
By Shadowself on 2/5/2007 1:34:52 PM , Rating: 4
My understanding is that Penryn actually has silicon out there running a minimum of 3 operating systems and multiple applications on some of them. So far AMD/IBM have just described what "they are going to do". To me that is a paper launch by IBM/AMD whereas Intel's "launch" is a bit more real.

Also the article above states, "Late last year IBM detailed its plans for utilizing immersion lithography for its 45nm test shuttles -- Intel uses the same process as well." My understanding is that Intel won't use immersion lithography for the production runs of Penryn. However, Intel has stated that it expects to use immersion lithography for the next shrink (32nm IIRC).


RE: Competition is good, but...........
By davegraham on 2/5/2007 1:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
remember the reporting machine when you quote stuff. *grin* I personally believe that Penryn will be an invaluable competitor to AMD's Barcelona/Shanghai runs, but again, I also have enough marketing "spin" running from Intel's side to conclude that there might be some slag running through there. Kudos to Intel for getting out of the gate first, but, I await the DVT spins to really judge for myself.

dave


RE: Competition is good, but...........
By Ard on 2/5/2007 3:16:31 PM , Rating: 3
I wonder if you are who I think you are...

In any event, I recall hearing similar FUD when Intel dropped their Conroe benchmarks early last year. Everyone thought they were lying or they had intentionally crippled the AMD machine. Conroe launched and, lo and behold, Intel was telling the truth. Funny how you seem to be insinuating something rather similar.

The fact of the matter is, this is essentially nothing more than a paper launch as was stated, or, to be more precise, an announcement of future manufacturing technology. We have no idea if AMD even has running 45nm SRAMs (not likely since they would've at least mentioned them). And meanwhile Intel has already taped out working A0 Penryn silicon using the technology breakthroughs they announced earlier this year. Or are you suggesting that Intel is "lying" about that like they did the Conroe benches?


By davegraham on 2/5/2007 3:58:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I wonder if you are who I think you are...


well, considering i don't know you from a hole in the ground, probably not. :)

quote:
In any event, I recall hearing similar FUD when Intel dropped their Conroe benchmarks early last year. Everyone thought they were lying or they had intentionally crippled the AMD machine. Conroe launched and, lo and behold, Intel was telling the truth. Funny how you seem to be insinuating something rather similar.


1.) I'm not spreading FUD. I'm stating that you need to be careful with sources that provide information to the channel. Example: RAM (reseller's advocate magazine) touts themselves as a manufacturer agnostic channel newsletter when, in fact, it is an Intel marketing tool. *shrug*
2.) I'm VERY cautious when manufacturer's provide "spec" machines because no one controls the process. Both AMD and Intel have historically run "cherry picked" benchmarks that tend to show their respective platforms in better lights. And, when you have investors and customers from whom you derive success and revenue waiting with baited breath, it behooves you to give them "results."

What I want to know is, what DIDN'T penryn do? What are the errata still present? etc. etc. Behind every success story is a history of failures. Running an OS, while a big step, still means work needs to be done. Again, historically, errata in SHIPPING products has caused a lot of turmoil.

cheers,

Dave


By ScythedBlade on 2/5/2007 4:25:11 PM , Rating: 1
Tis true ... but you see ... IBM and AMD's 45 nm is coming 2008 ... you usually dont have the processor AND the process done in a year ...


By udontnome on 2/5/2007 7:51:22 PM , Rating: 3
AMD showed 45nm SRAM 3 months after Intel
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...


RE: Competition is good, but...........
By Justin Case on 2/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Competition is good, but...........
By Ard on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
By Justin Case on 2/6/2007 6:46:00 PM , Rating: 2
Intel's Conroe benchmark announcement compared a 6-month-old AMD system with an Intel system that was 4 months away from being released. If you compared it (at the release date, 4 months later) with a then 10-month-old AMD system, maybe their carefully picked benchmarks did show that advantage. If you compared it with a then current AMD system, using a broader range of real-world benchmarks, no.

AMD is preparing to do the same with Barcelona, BTW.

If you trust any benchmark results presented by the manufacturers you're either very naïf or in an advanced state of fanboyism.


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007

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