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Bill Gates chats with Dean Takahashi on all things Xbox 360

Engadget reported two weeks ago that a new revision of the Xbox 360, Zephyr, was due to be launched this year. Engadget posted a rather grainy image of an Xbox 360 which sported an HDMI port for native 1080p support. Xbox-Scene followed up with some clearer shots of the HDMI port along with a revised motherboard featuring the new HANA scaler chip.

Along with the new HDMI port, Engadget also reported that a new 120GB hard drive would be included in addition to already anticipated cooler-running 65 nanometer IBM Xenon PowerPC processor.

Not surprisingly, the inclusion of an HDMI port sparked the most debate on the internet. Discussion boards across the web turned into flame zones as techies argued back and forth over whether Microsoft was justified in releasing an HDMI-equipped Xbox 360.

When Microsoft was asked directly, Microsoft's Chris Satchell confirmed the existence of prototype Xbox 360s with an HDMI ports, but declined to expound on the possibility of seeing it in the future. Satchell also deflected questioning on the larger 120GB hard drive.

Dean Takahashi, always a close confidant to Microsoft executives, had a chance to press Bill Gates on future upgrades to the Xbox 360 including his thoughts on a larger hard drive and IPTV.

While Satchell deflected questioning on the possibility of a larger hard drive for IPTV, Gates simply said that it isn't needed. "In an IPTV environment, there is no reason to put anything down on a hard disk because you created a broadband infrastructure that has enough capacity to stream individual video streams to everybody on the network," said Gates. "In terms of videos and music, there is no reason to put it on the local hard disk."

Bill Gates also made mention that content providers are likely to be elated with the idea that no IPTV content would be stored on the Xbox 360's hard drive. “It means you can insert ads that are up to date. You can control how much ad skipping you allow. And you’re less vulnerable to getting at the bits. Xbox is a very protected environment. No one is going to go and get bits on an Xbox.” He went on to say “By being more secure than anything else out there, it’s pretty good. It’s really just the simplicity. You have to get permissions to do server-based DVR. You have to get the copyright owner’s permission.”

Also, contrary to what Paul Thurrott said in the January 12 edition of the Windows Weekly, no new revision of the Xbox 360 will be needed for users to take advantage of IPTV. "No, we don’t need to change it at all to do an IPTV thing."

Takahashi questioned Gates on the subject of the Xbox 360 competing head to head with Windows Media Center PCs. "Xbox has a slightly better hardware protection model. We may have some content we don’t get for everywhere. It’s very valid to point out that some of the good things we are doing in Media Center we should share with Xbox and some of the good things we are doing on Xbox we should share with the Media Center," Gates responded.

He added "If people are comparing Microsoft to Microsoft, we have no concern. It’s OK. Should we pick one form factor and worry about that? Should we be concerned if someone puts their media on my Zune or media on my Blackjack? There is enough uncertainty about who wants PC coming down in the living room and Xbox coming up that I don’t mind them meeting and even overlapping as long as the point system, the user interface, the development tools - as long as we get this incredible alignment.”

Gates also took the time to take a few jabs at Sony's PlayStation 3. Gates stated that Sony wouldn't have anything better-looking than the upcoming Halo 3 for the Xbox 360. "They were going to have the Cell be the video processor. But they didn’t know what they were doing. They said the Cell is the video processor. But they turned to Nvidia at the last minute, but Nvidia can’t do embedded DRAM. Go look at the bandwidth problems. Go ask the guys running ... now."

Gates seems very optimistic about the future of the Xbox 360 in the interview and is looking forward to working with content providers like AT&T for IPTV. Though Microsoft is downplaying the importance of hard drives larger than the 20GB currently in use (actually, only about 13GB are useable), the company is more likely than not to cave in to the demands of gamers and the market to deliver a considerable boost in storage.



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RE: Solution to sony's problems
By andrep74 on 1/22/2007 4:10:43 AM , Rating: 2
Even if your obscure reference, with no source, can be substantiated, it makes no sense to say that an American company has a better-looking game because of politics. I don't know how a politician could call a games company and tell them to "tone down the tree textures a bit" unless they are shareholders or on the board of directors. If the games developers are tasked with writing a game and given a budget and timeframe, they do what they can with what they have. If it costs more time to make the equivalent textures available to the game without affecting gameplay, then that may end up being a corner that is cut. Given superior memory bandwidth in the 360, it's not surprising that textures may be of lower quality on the PS3.

I find it amazing that you are whining about people calling PS3 a failure at eight weeks, and yet you are more than happy to call the 360 a failure in China before it's even out. I think the 360 failed in Japan because it's the Japanese consumer that wants to see the 360 fail because they are more nationalistic than you realize: they'll buy Sony because it's Japanese. Also, being that it's been sold as an equivalent, if not better, console than the 360, and given the relationship that Japanese developers have with Sony, the style of game that the Japanese consumer is interested in is mostly available on the PS3. So software is driving sales in Japan.

HD-DVD is indeed inferior to BD, but can the average consumer point out the differences? Probably not with enough consistency to make BD worth the royalties a single company collects every time it's used. Once PS3 games start to become epic enough that BD becomes necessary for game storage, I'm sure the next generation of consoles will be out and this whole HD/BD mess will be sorted out. I might be wrong, but until then I still have the right to purchase a PS3.


RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:38:19 PM , Rating: 2
You answered your own question "they are shareholders or on the board of directors". Granted, time frames are another factor, but the fact that several of the multi-platform games are having texture issues surprises me (though NBA 2k7 and Fight Night look amazing). The reason why it surprises me is because, according to CNET:

Xbox 360 Specs:
http://news.com.com/Xbox+specs+revealed/2100-1043_...

Playstation 3 Specs:
http://news.com.com/PlayStation+3+stats+spotlighte...

In the bandwidth, it seems to be quite similar, neither seem to outshine, unless I am misreading the data?

I said the 360 will fail in CHINA because that is an assumption. I didn't however say it was going to be a failure PERIOD. There's a difference (but I apologize for not specifying).

I hoped that the software and coding in the HD DVD can just be used on Blu Ray, that way both Sony and Microsoft (and everybody!) can benefit and the inferior technology can be chucked. I'm sure around spring or summer time when ps3 has more options their sales will go up, which in turn will make the Blu Ray drives cheaper, which in time will make Blu Ray players cheaper than the ps3, which in turn makes the ps3 cheaper (also the cell processor is beginning to be used in other devices, I think I heard cellphones and even a few Blu ray players, but I'm not sure on that)


RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 2:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
Actually if you look at the specs you'll see why you have no idea what you are talking about in the links you posted.

The Ps3 and Xbox 360 might be similar, but the Xbox 360's bandwidth is better.

PS3 GPU
• RSX @550MHz
System Bandwidth
• RSX: Bandwidth 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s(read)

Xbox 360
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
• 500MHz processor
• 10 MB of embedded DRAM (thats eDRAM in the GPU)
22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
• 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
• 21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Notice the 10MB bulit into the Xbox 360 ?
Its bandwidth is 256 GB !! The Ps3 doesnt have this.
Data can be moved in and out at tremndous speeds.
Its not alot of memory if you don't understand caching, but when you can move data in and out that fast it doesnt need to be that big. Point is this makes a difference.

On top of that the RSX bandwidth in "reading" is a mere 15GB a second.. compared to the Xbox 360 which cna fully utilize the FSB at 22.4 GB on read and write!!




RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 6:01:59 PM , Rating: 2
Triangle Setup
Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec
PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

Vertex Shader Processing
Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

Filtered Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

Vertex Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Multisampled Fill Rate
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)
PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)
PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

Frame Buffer Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)
Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

Shader Model
Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture
PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

Xbox 360 has the advantage in most cases.


RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 8:54:44 PM , Rating: 1
"The Inquirer cited PS3 triangle setup rates of 270 million per second, compared to the 360's 500 million.

Developers, however, seem to have taken issue with the report, telling GamesIndustry.biz that the figures are meaningless and lacking in context. A developer, who could not be named for fear of breaching an NDA, stated that the numbers were not necessarily reflective of game performance, noting that theoretically the PS2 boasted a higher triangle number than the Xbox (which was of course far more powerful, in practice)."
http://play.tm/story/7835

Also, Viper, perhaps you should have shown all of chairmansteve's spec sheet, like in the beginning:

"Let's look at the maximum theoretical numbers for the Xbox 360 and PS3 GPUs.
...
Some PS3 GPU (RSX) specs are still not confirmed. It's assumed to have 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS (raster), and 550MHz clock speed. But any of those could change, especially the clock speed."

So the specs given are in fact theoretical (and were given several months before launch, so these specs for the ps3 are in fact not confirmed).

These specs are mostly irrelevant. The processor for the playstation 2 was 1/3 the power of the xbox and xbox was slightly graphically better than the playstation 2, but, despite what these numbers show, the ps3 and xbox 360 are much more closer when it comes to processing power (also the architecture of the ps3 is more advanced; the ps2 had 1/3 of the processing power but stayed nearly on par with all of the multi-platform games of the xbox). Plus, the games look amazing and will look amazing, will have true 1080p and will be cheaper as time moves on.


"It's okay. The scenarios aren't that clear. But it's good looking. [Steve Jobs] does good design, and [the iPad] is absolutely a good example of that." -- Bill Gates on the Apple iPad

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