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The first HD DVD title to hit BitTorrent networks
The results of hacked HD DVD keys turn up as HD DVDs are released on the Internet

Late last year, a hacker claimed to have circumvented the copy protection scheme used to protect HD DVD and Blu-ray content. Just over two weeks after the news broke, the online pirate community is seeing the fruits of hacker labor with the first release of a full HD DVD available for download.

The first HD DVD movie released is Serenity, which weighs in at 19.6 GB. The file reportedly is available in EVO format and is playable with PC-based players such as PowerDVD at full 1080p resolution.

Other HD DVD movies have quickly followed with the release of Pitch Black at 21.37 GB, The Chronicles of Riddick at 24.94 GB and Batman Begins at 24.76 GB. All HD DVD movies released thus far appear to retain all aspects of the original discs, including various audio options and special features.

While PowerDVD is the software of choice to play the pirated releases, PowerDVD’s developer, Cyberlink, has publically stated that it believes that its software is secure and is not a part of the exploit in extracting the title keys used to decrypt HD DVDs.

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Pirated HD DVD
By restrada on 1/17/2007 4:44:47 PM , Rating: 2
So much for all that nice, will never crack encryption that was being boasted about.

RE: Pirated HD DVD
By Sahrin on 1/17/2007 4:55:52 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, the formats were created with the understanding that they WOULD break the copy protection. The keys for the films that have already been cracked will be black listed, so that no new films will be made that make use of them. The AACS standard was designed to respond to being cracked (as opposed to DVD's DeCSS).

RE: Pirated HD DVD
By Zurtex on 1/17/2007 5:03:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure how practical that is.

Firstly it's going to annoy consumers when they put their disks in and it doesn't work. Secondly the AACS specification only lists for up to 100 keys to be black listed, given how easy it turned out to find the keys that's not going to be hard to fill.

RE: Pirated HD DVD
By Furen on 1/17/2007 5:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
The format was designed so that the DEVICE keys could be revoked by simply not including them in future movies. Media keys, on the other hand, cannot be revoked unless the player's firmware is updated. Not to mention that revoking a media key would render a particular production run of a movie unplayable, which would be a very nice way to piss-off a lot of paying customers.

RE: Pirated HD DVD
By Hydrofirex on 1/17/2007 11:13:53 PM , Rating: 2
So that's what they meant when they claimed they could update them. I was thinking that didn't make much sense, but this way they at least cut their losses - and I would imagine they can update the key's on the new releases of cracked movies.

However, isn't this cat and mouse game just a stop gap to slow down piracy? In the end won't everything slowly be released? To the point though: this is nothing new and all their claims were hype.


Frank Costanza...
By Brandon Hill on 1/17/2007 4:43:21 PM , Rating: 5

RE: Frank Costanza...
By therealnickdanger on 1/17/2007 4:50:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I always say the same thing when I see that at the store. LOL!

This is good news, perhaps it will prompt the DVD Forum to hurry up with their "managed copy" feature. Call me lazy or crazy, but I just want all media stored on my RAID so I don't have to put in discs.

Going over the facts
By Nimbo on 1/17/2007 5:25:43 PM , Rating: 5
Actually it was not the original hacker (Muxlix64) who actually did this, he proofed the concept and implemented a java decrypting software useless without keys that he did not provide nor said were to find. After two weeks of the original release, the community was able to find the fist key confirming his claims.
Despite skepticism, 'muslix64' was the real deal. Starting from a riddle posted on (, members on the doom9 forum identified the Title key for the HD-DVD release 'Serenity.' Volume Unique Keys and Title keys for other discs followed within hours, confirming that software HD-DVD players, like any common program, store important run-time data in memory.
What pushed him and others in the right direction was LordSloth who posted (on Jan 13th) the link to the Google scavenger hunt for half a title key based on the text posted on
Where LordSloth found the link I don't know, and I don't know who started the scavenger hunt. The guy posting the scavenger hunt at must have found a title key on his own.
Read from this first post by LordSloth and on-wards:
Now GUI for BackupHDDVD and automatic web retrieving for the keys found so far are being developed by de community. (
Now I know what HD format to buy and with this "extra feature" of backing up HD DVDs other will follow. Will this give HDDVD the victory over BluRay? The answer is yes for me.

RE: Going over the facts
By willow01 on 1/23/2007 1:32:05 AM , Rating: 2
Except now the same or similar technique is now being used on Blu-Ray, so the answer is still unclear.

Help or Hurt HD-DVD Sales?
By CKDragon on 1/17/2007 5:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
So I wonder whether this will help or hurt HD-DVD sales...

On one hand, the movie studios are going to look at this and be seriously deterred from putting their films on a hacked format.

On the other hand, I bet HD-DVD just got a lot more interest from the legions of people that are used to pirating their DVDs through various nefarious means. This could mean a lot more HD-DVD players jumping off the shelves which would mean a big installed user base. I'm sure someone will respond "But these new users will only be pirates", but most of the swashbucklers that I know WILL PURCHASE good movies to show support. Just not the 3rd rate crap.

Anyway, just food for thought.


RE: Help or Hurt HD-DVD Sales?
By Hydrofirex on 1/17/2007 11:16:22 PM , Rating: 2
Using Piracy as a subversive marketing strategy...

It's a good thing Microsoft has never thought about doing that...


RE: Help or Hurt HD-DVD Sales?
By Aikouka on 1/18/2007 8:12:35 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think it will hurt sales as the average user will not want to download 19GB+ of data. What does hurt sales (in my opinion) is the fact that the movies are sometimes twice as expensive as the DVDs! I have an HD-DVD player, but I'm quite skeptical about paying that much for a movie unless it's one of my favorite movies of all time. $20 seems to be the sweet spot for the movies, but I see quite a few placed around $30-35, which is just a bit ludicrous.

Software of Choice
By Zurtex on 1/17/2007 5:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Software of choice for hacking I believe is WinDVD. Not that it matters, there would have been some software or some hardware somewhere that didn't store the volume licence keys securely, because it's not within the AACS specification to keep that key secure.

RE: Software of Choice
By Live on 1/17/2007 5:19:10 PM , Rating: 2
First keys where found trough WinDVD. But keys have been confirmed in memory with PowerDVD 7.2 as well.

By TedStriker on 1/17/2007 5:12:41 PM , Rating: 4
Guess someone was aiming to misbehave...

By Uncle C on 1/17/2007 6:03:59 PM , Rating: 4
As long as every format gets hacked, I'm pleased.
Without healthy competition the market gets stagnant.

OK, since it hasn't been said yet I'll say it...
By loomis2 on 1/17/2007 7:40:09 PM , Rating: 2

You can't stop the signal!

By rippleyaliens on 1/17/2007 10:13:03 PM , Rating: 2
The DARK SIDE commith. lol
These companies kill me. "This stuff will never get cracked"
MAn, dont they just understand. You cant underestimate the Power, of the Dark Side of the Force. IE Pirates, BUT more importantly, the people who are challenged every time some idiot CEO states the Never word...

Pirates, hackers, back-upers, whatever... I Salute You.

And the format winner is...
By Micronite on 1/17/2007 8:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
So that makes HD-DVD that much more appealing now.
Scrictly for ease of backup... naturally.

RE: And the format winner is...
By michal1980 on 1/17/07, Rating: 0
RE: And the format winner is...
By allst1 on 1/21/2007 4:37:17 PM , Rating: 2
He got rated down for that.. Funny watching him get negated for almost anything...

The way most internet downloads are at the moment the number of seeders just keep decreasing now days.

Leechers +4000

Streaming HD?
By HueyD on 1/18/2007 8:35:42 AM , Rating: 2
How much bandwidth would you need to stream an MPEG 4 (H.264) 720P movie?

7-8Mbps ?

RE: Streaming HD?
By HueyD on 1/18/2007 8:41:54 AM , Rating: 2
Here is a link to Apple, its about H.264.

By DrDisconnect on 1/18/2007 8:41:29 AM , Rating: 2
Shame to see Josh Whedon (sp?) being the first to be burned by this. He deserves better for the hard work he put into Serenity.

RE: Sigh
By mofo3k on 1/18/2007 10:38:31 AM , Rating: 2
That's JOSS Whedon. Hopefully this will draw more interest in Firefly now. Hopefully.

Take that MPAA!!!!!!!
By Nocturnal on 1/18/2007 1:51:40 AM , Rating: 3
I just want to say take that MPAA! Screw your HDMI and HDCP. HD-DVD FOR THE WIN HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH. No more needing this special monitor with a special cable. YAY :)

By TheOneYouKNow on 1/23/2007 9:46:23 PM , Rating: 3
I didn't read everyone's post in this thread so if I am repeating I am sorry but I think HD DVD and BLURAY's size is prohibitive enough to be concidered copy protection.

I backup all my DVDs to hard disk and watch them from my PC. I can tell you I won't be watching HD content that way unless storage media cuts to a hundredth or less of it's current price.

Maybe the movie industry could save itself some money and not bother with copy protection that doesn't work. Maybe that could translate into cheaper movies on the store shelves. (I know I am a dreamer)

Superman HD-DVD
By Xorp on 1/17/2007 5:13:08 PM , Rating: 2
Superman is 29.84 GBs :)

Keeping up Appearances...
By codeThug on 1/17/2007 8:01:26 PM , Rating: 2

You making us look bad in front of Chad...

Pirated HD-DVD's
By AlmostExAMD on 1/18/2007 4:34:56 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe if the movie studios had half a brain they would keep inventing even higher definition movies that are 200gb or 1 Tb in size, Only way 99% of people could own them would be to buy them legit instead of downloading which would be virtually impossible or a waste of time/bandwidth/money!
Be better than all this drm crap which has already been defeated.

By otispunkmeyer on 1/18/2007 5:21:02 AM , Rating: 2
all these companies and bodies (RIAA, MPAA etc) spends huge wads of cash trying to ensure their stuff doesnt get copied and flaunted for nothing on the internet and other pirate avenues.

they come up with all kinds of stuff and it either involves stealthly installing spy ware/root kits, which is wrong and/or is bypassed within a matter of hours by a couple of guys who are obviously smarter than them.

those guys could make so much money pluggin all the copy protection holes, yet they commit themselve to making stuff free for everyone.

By ElJefe69 on 1/20/2007 1:50:18 AM , Rating: 2
After downloading 100's of gigs in a couple of weeks, uploading at max to friends at night, I never heard of usage caps. I think in NY we dont have any. odd as that may seem, it has been that forever. competition and wealth here I guess equate to no such rules

I still wouldnt download those files as it is illegal, petty, a non necessary/non vital thing, and blatantly morrally wrong.

odd, I know.

what's the point?
By Etern205 on 1/17/07, Rating: -1
RE: what's the point?
By Teletran1 on 1/17/2007 5:08:49 PM , Rating: 4
You don't have to sit there and watch it. Your wasting your own time if you sit there and watch downloads come in. Nobody should have to pay you for that.

RE: what's the point?
By raphd on 1/17/2007 5:09:11 PM , Rating: 2
its only a waste of time if you sit there every minute waiting.

RE: what's the point?
By puffpio on 1/17/2007 5:10:43 PM , Rating: 5
With my comcast cable internet I get 6 Mbps download speed which in reality I've gotten about 700 KB/s which is even lower than your estimate! That's about 0.68 MB/s

If you have a 19GB file that is 19456 MB

so 19456 MB /(0.68 MB/s) = 28611 s = 7.9 hours.. goto bed..wake up and it's downloaded!

RE: what's the point?
By CrazyBernie on 1/17/07, Rating: 0
RE: what's the point?
By puffpio on 1/18/2007 5:54:58 AM , Rating: 2
yeah I know...see how I lavled it 6 Mbps and not 6MBps..and then all the other calculations has them in Bps and not bps...I took that into account

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 8:49:05 AM , Rating: 2
"With my comcast cable internet I get 6 Mbps download speed which in reality I've gotten about 700 KB/s which is even lower than your estimate!"

#1: You imply that 700KB/s is less than 6 Mb/s. (Ok, so 6Mb/s is technically 750KB/s, but whatever, close enough.)

#2: You imply that 700KB/s is less than the 1Mb/s in the original post you were replying to. (1 Mb/s is about 120KB/s.)

You may not have meant all that, but with the way it is written, I think most of us thought you were making the implications I pointed out above, which would show a confusion between bits and bytes in regards to data transmission speeds.

RE: what's the point?
By walk2k on 1/17/07, Rating: -1
RE: what's the point?
By mindless1 on 1/17/2007 10:30:54 PM , Rating: 2
You're in for a rude awakening if you think you could get that torrent at ~ 0.68MBps

Not that I'm advocating sharing these movies, but the general concept is you are a peer, you share 1:1 ratio. Your upload speed is what, 384K? Your going to choke your internet connection for several days just to get a movie a few months earlier that you'd end up being able to rent or see in person?

HD-DVD is such a waste of internet bandwidth not even considering the piracy issue. How you think your cable connection is going to fare if 10 of your neighbors have the same idea? Good luck getting online for the next few weeks.

RE: what's the point?
By CrazyBernie on 1/17/2007 10:54:28 PM , Rating: 3
That's interesting... I've never shared at a 1:1 ratio... keep in mind you're downloading from more than just one other user... I have my global upload limited to 25KB, and I never have a problem downloading files at over well over 300KB/s if enough users are seeding/sharing.

RE: what's the point?
By xsilver on 1/18/2007 4:48:06 AM , Rating: 4
you are what people call a "leech"

and probably a lot of people would wish bad things upon you ;)

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 9:02:13 AM , Rating: 2
Of course, if he left his client on for a few weeks after he was done downloading, he might hit 1:1. ;P

I don't bother for some smaller files like webcasts and the like.

RE: what's the point?
By puffpio on 1/18/2007 5:55:58 AM , Rating: 2
I've gotten 700KB/sec speeds on torrents before.of course they were well seeded.

But if you have a good newsgroup server then you can do those kinds of speeds all day long

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 9:01:13 AM , Rating: 2
I think you misunderstand the concept of the swarm and bittorrent.

You don't have to upload at your maximum speed, because A: You can continue uploading at a trickle for weeks or months after you're done downloading, and B: Many people uploading at a trickle together allow for fast downloads, this is the heart of bittorrent.

You can get your 1:1 ratio, it just takes time. Sometimes everyone who wants a given file has it long before you hit 2:1, let alone 1:1, but oh well? You don't HAVE to hit 1:1 for the swarm to be healthy, it just helps(especially in small swarms).

RE: what's the point?
By mindless1 on 1/21/2007 8:44:02 PM , Rating: 2
Invalid argument, you can't keep the swarm healthy if everyone d/l at max speed then only trickles for weeks or months (and frankly, I doubt most people will do it instead of quitting, if there were in the hurry to get the movie early by this P2P method then what about the next movie? At the trickle for months rate, several movies would be a cumulatively high u/l rate, they would have done better to share at a higher u/d ratio.

You do have to hit 1:1 for a healthy swarm, when it is seen as a whole, it is not an acceptible argument that one person can bow out of what everyone else would have to do. It wouldnt' be much of a problem if only one person littered in front of your house either but what if everyone did? No exceptions.

RE: what's the point?
By smitty3268 on 1/17/2007 5:19:29 PM , Rating: 2
and to download a 19GB file?! How long will that take? A week maybe if you get like a constant 1mb/s connection rate and your machine needs to be on 24/7!

Actually, at that speed you could get 21GB in 48 hours. And getting files at 2.5x that speed isn't out of the question, which would lower it to around 19 hours. Still a long time but not completely unreasonable.
If a user has a small size monitor then won't be able to see it in true HD form

I would imagine they would connect their computer into a 1080p HDTV and get full quality. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point, would there?
What if I download it and it does not work!

That's what you get for not paying any money.
No, but if I buy it and it does not work, at least I get to change it or get a refund.

Well, I would certainly hope so.
If HD DVD movies cost around $20bucks or so. I'll rather buy it than download it.

I tend to agree - the only reason I would want to pirate this in the first place would be to stick it to the pro-DRM MPAA.

RE: what's the point?
By cubby1223 on 1/17/2007 9:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
I tend to agree - the only reason I would want to pirate this in the first place would be to stick it to the pro-DRM MPAA.

Exactly. Here I was the only sucker among my friends who actually paid for the Family Guy movie instead of downloading it. And what was my reward? I am forced to watch an anti-piracy propaganda infomercial every time that, thanks to drm, cannot be skipped... Really makes me want to buy more dvds...

RE: what's the point?
By rtrski on 1/18/2007 8:19:09 PM , Rating: 2
You can avoid that if you either play it on a computer with the right SW blocking the 'user prohibition' commands, or just rip it to a computer and play it from the HDD.

That's what I do. I won't torrent or pirate; I buy what I watch. But I absolutely refuse to sit thru forced commercials, propaganda, or previews I didn't choose to watch.

That's what turned me on to HTPC's in the first place...

RE: what's the point?
By crleap on 1/18/2007 11:07:42 PM , Rating: 2
hey it's no worse than going to the theatre these days, spending $20 for tickets and $30 for popcorn, and having to watch 15 minutes worth of pepsi and vonage commercials before the previews even start. Where's our discount for the commercial time?

RE: what's the point?
By ghost101 on 1/17/2007 5:28:42 PM , Rating: 2
Something which is more likely is reencoding of HDDVDs. I mean very few people currently download full DVDs compared to 1/2 CD xvid/divx rips.

So i think you can expect xvid/divx files at 720p resolutions. Similar to the new trend in TV shows.

RE: what's the point?
By heffeque on 1/17/2007 7:04:48 PM , Rating: 2
Actually... "720re" is starting to flow on eMule and it looks and sounds GRRRREAT!

RE: what's the point?
By isaacmacdonald on 1/17/2007 9:04:59 PM , Rating: 2
Right you are. I've seen quite a few 720p x264 rips weighing in at about 1 DVD in size--they look quite good and don't involve ungodly amounts of time devoted to downloading.

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 9:06:02 AM , Rating: 2
This makes me wonder - for the movies already released, what are they encoded in, MPEG-2 or H.264? I know *D-DVD supports both, and many of the first releases were in MPEG-2(What normal DVDs are encoded with, *D-DVD just uses a much higher resolution, which is why the files are so big)

RE: what's the point?
By CrazyBernie on 1/17/2007 6:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
19.6GB = 156.8Gb = 156,800Mb;
156,800Mb @ 1Mb/s = 2,613 Min = 43.5 hours

PC's in general have a higher resolution than TV's

Downloading in the background while doing other things = no wasted time, and no cost to the user.

Don't get me wrong; buying the movie is much easier. I usually recommend renting it 1st and buying if you like it (which is why I use Netflix).. but most people would rather not spend the money renting something they might hate.

Most store return policies forbid the returning of movies/software that has been opened. I know Best Buy will only exchange open software/movies for the same exact title, so you can't even get a different movie.

RE: what's the point?
By crleap on 1/18/2007 11:10:16 PM , Rating: 2
exchange it for the same title. you get a new wrapped up copy, then take it somewhere else like walmart with liberal return policies. they'll give you at worst a gift card for the price of the now-unwrapped dvd you take to them. who wouldn't use a gift card to walmart

RE: what's the point?
By hubajube on 1/17/2007 7:25:54 PM , Rating: 2
Nice stomp label BTW! Thanks! ;)

RE: what's the point?
By Suomynona on 1/17/2007 8:16:42 PM , Rating: 2
No one seems to be mentioning Newsgroups. I switched over from using torrents to newsgroups about 2 months ago and I haven't look back since. The nice thing about newsgroups is I get a constant, yes read that constant 1.65MB (Megabytes, not bits) per second. So downloading even a HD DVD will take me approximately three and half hours.

Oh and yes I have an unlimited connection subject to fair use. So far fair use equates to about 500GB per month....

RE: what's the point?
By CKDragon on 1/17/2007 10:25:46 PM , Rating: 2
In an ideal world, you would be modded down to -1 for breaking rule #1.

RE: what's the point?
By Hydrofirex on 1/17/2007 11:09:38 PM , Rating: 4
Don't talk about fight club...

RE: what's the point?
By xsilver on 1/18/2007 4:51:02 AM , Rating: 2
lol you talked about fight club too! ;)

btw - newsgroups cost $$ no -- kinda makes it even less financially incentive?

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 9:09:25 AM , Rating: 2
That entirely depends on your ISP.

There are many for-pay newsgroup servers out there that are ISP-independant, but then you're back to being limited by your ISP's outbound connection. The reason so many newsgroups are fast is that the servers are inside your ISP's network, so you can often get the real wire speed of your connection rather than your fair share of your ISP's backbone connection to the intertubes.

RE: what's the point?
By Sunner on 1/19/2007 8:57:27 AM , Rating: 2
Or do like me, go Direct Connect.
A good peer will give me over 5 MB/Sec, but that's not needed since everything is split up into smaller files anyway, so for anything that's even remotely popular, getting ~10 MB/Sec is very realistic.

And yes, I do know the difference between Mb and MB.

RE: what's the point?
By Araemo on 1/18/2007 8:52:28 AM , Rating: 2
Even at 1Mb/s, that's only about a 44 hour download. I've done much longer downloads in my day(Not for a measely two hour movie, mind you, even one as good as Serenity), but it's hardly an issue. Even simpler if you use software on your computer to limit the download to around 500Kb/s, so that you aren't saturating your connection.. sure it'll take most of a week, but you don't have to sit there or even stop doing other things, so why do you care how long it takes? Just click download, watch it NEXT weekend. ;P

RE: what's the point?
By Mudvillager on 1/18/2007 10:57:19 AM , Rating: 2
Two and a half hour. That's what it would take for me and lots of others with a standard 24mbps ADSL connection.

24" and bigger monitors are getting cheaper by the day (looks like 24" will go below $500 this year). I have a Samsung 244T (24") and watching HD content looks absolutely awesome on it, much better than on our 32" LCD TV.
LCD TV's just mess with the picture so I easily prefer watching HD on my computer monitor.

RE: what's the point?
By MrBungle123 on 1/18/2007 1:15:14 PM , Rating: 1
This is good news for people that get off on filling up mulitple terabytes of hard drive space with stuff they never watch just to say that they have 7TB across 19 hard drives filled up with stuff they torrented.

"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates
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