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Time Warner has one media to rule them all

The format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD is still in the early stages, but the battle plans have been clearly drawn.  The Sony-backed Blu-ray format and the Toshiba-backed HD DVD format have both effectively divided the film industry onto two competing teams. Several studios have chosen to offer movies on both. 

Time Warner is expected to announce a new high-definition DVD that is capable of playing both Blu-ray and HD-DVD content on one disc.  The Total HD disc is aimed at allowing studios to offer their products "in a way that is not conceding defeat."  The Total HD disc is not going to contain a standard format version, according to Kevin Tsujihara, the president of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group.

The next-gen content war has been a focal point for the HD format wars. The new Sony PlayStation 3 has a built-in Blu-ray drive, while Microsoft's Xbox 360 has an add-on HD DVD drive.  Both devices are priced cheaper than set-top players that just play HD media.

It still unclear if studios outside of Time Warner would be willing to offer content on the Total HD disc.  For example, Sony, who has been a fervent backer of the Blu-ray technology, would not want its content on the HD DVD format.  Vivid Entertainment Group, the most recognized name in the adult entertainment industry, has previously stated that it will offer content in both formats. Analysts have claimed that the easiest and fastest way to end the format war is to not offer movies in both formats -- it is possible that releasing media in both formats could simply prolong consumer confusion. 

A similar industry schism occurred between DVD+R and DVD-R media.  Two separate industry groups attempted to control the majority of the media royalties by introducing two competing formats.  When it became clear neither side would back down, electronics companies designed recorders that would easily negotiate protocols for either format media.  In the end, the DVD recorders cost a little more as consumers had to pay royalties to both consortiums.

Assuming that both formats will be around for a long period, the Total HD disc will be ideal for some consumers -- yet the consumer will eventually eat the costs of royalties for both formats if Total HD succeeds.  A hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray player would be considerably more expensive right now, but the media costs could be reduced as well. 

LG Electronics is expected to unveil the world's first dual-format high-def player capable of playing both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats.  Pricing, availability and other details will become available during Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vagas next week.

The cost of producing Total HD media may also be a downside for the format.  At its most basic level, Total HD may just be a double-sided print with Blu-ray on one side and HD DVD on the other. Given the already exorbitant price for single-sided high-definition movies, the price of Total HD will likely not be for those on a budget.

The official announcement from Warner Brothers is expected on Tuesday during the CES.



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Quite interesting...
By KaiserCSS on 1/4/2007 5:26:48 PM , Rating: 5
... but wouldn't the debate go something like this?

-Time Warner: "Hey Sony, hey Toshiba, take a look at my cool new invention! It can play BOTH of your formats on a single disc without the need to buy two players! Isn't this great? Now you guys don't have to fight anymore! Group hug! (^_^)."

-Sony: *blank stare*

-Toshiba: *blank stare*

-Time Warner: "... what?"

-Sony: "So what you're saying is, in one fell swoop, you intend to end the HD-format war, a war in which I have dumped considerable amounts of money into to promote my product as the best next-gen media format? Your solution will basically negate the whole reason for buying Blu-ray products, and will technically bastardize both formats into one sick, twisted fusion of a format, is that what you're telling me? "

Time Warner: *slumped into a corner* "... well, when you put it that way..."

Toshiba: "For once, I can agree with him. You want us to stop battling on the consumer market for dominance of HD-media? Tell me, why did I even bother creating my format if you were just planning on coming in all willy-nilly and take over both his and mine? How are we supposed to make money off of our formats if ( IF ) studios decide to use your all-in-one wonder instead? So now a person could have either an HD-DVD player or a Blu-ray player and could go with this... this runt of a format and still be able to watch a movie intended for only one format? IS THAT WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO GET HERE?

Time Warner: *tears in eyes* "... well I um... I hadn't, you know, thought of it that way... but uh... can't we just be friends?"

Sony and Toshiba in unison: " GTFO! "

Time Warner: *runs away crying*




RE: Quite interesting...
By shaw on 1/4/2007 5:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
Hahaha, true!


RE: Quite interesting...
By dubldwn on 1/4/2007 6:00:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
technically bastardize

Sounds like a Democratic proposal that Bush would veto.

In response to your post, I think Sony has much more to lose.


RE: Quite interesting...
By fuhgetaboutit on 1/4/2007 8:06:22 PM , Rating: 1
Very nice Mr. Kaiser, well spoken.

Blu-ray/HD-DVD (a.k.a. "The Format War") is the ultimate techno-soap opera. Everytime I read about it I laugh, and then I cry. It's hard to blame one side specifically, although if I had to, it would be Sony. And Sony is preventing hybrid players from happening, so yeah, Sony is likely the Devil.

The Format War is one of those things that everyone hopes and prays a silver bullet comes along that will make us forget this silliness ever happened. But instead we get things like "Total HD" dual-format media. That idea is Total something alright.

If I were a betting man, I would bet on hybrid players coming to market eventually. Second half of 07 at earliest. I say that because I find it hard to believe that NEC and Broadcom would invest money in developing the technology for hybrid players, if they didn't feel they would be able to ship it at some point.


RE: Quite interesting...
By averaesaveraesky on 1/5/2007 12:16:55 AM , Rating: 2
lmao, that post just made me guffaw :)

the sad thing is, it is probably accurate


RE: Quite interesting...
By vdig on 1/5/2007 9:54:17 AM , Rating: 1
So true. All the other companies also would like nothing better than to only need to support the leading format. Telling each HD provider to encode their movies onto a disc with both formats will only help make things worse, as encoding for both formats will take more money to produce, and even if they were planning to do so, the two proprietary disc backers will definitely want to render such discs as unreadable on their official machines. Then, you will need a Total HD DVD reader, which defeats the whole purpose of the disc in the first place.

Blueray reader - If any HD DVD code is found, reject disc.
HD reader - If any Blueray is found, reject disc.

It is better to stick with multi-format readers if you ask me.


RE: Quite interesting...
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 12:41:01 PM , Rating: 2
> "Telling each HD provider to encode their movies onto a disc with both formats will only help make things worse, as encoding for both formats will take more money to produce..."

It'll be considerably cheaper to produce and distribute one dual-format disc than two single-format discs. For any non-Sony studio, a dual-format player is a win-win situation.


RE: Quite interesting...
By rykerabel on 1/5/2007 5:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
Thats not the problem.

1 disc is of course cheaper than 2 discs, but your not selling 1 disc to two people

the argument against the dual format is that 2 dual-format discs cost more to produce and license than 1 BD plus 1 HD-DVD.


RE: Quite interesting...
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 9:05:47 PM , Rating: 3
> "the argument against the dual format is that 2 dual-format discs cost more to produce and license than 1 BD plus 1 HD-DVD."

You missed the point of my original post. Two dual-format discs are indeed cheaper than 1 BD + 1 HD. The disc itself is a bit pricier to master...but you have to maintain less inventory, less SKU numbers, etc, etc. There's a certain fixed overhead for maintenance of any separate product.

What I'm saying is borne out by the studios own remarks, who have all stated (except for the Sony-owned ones) that dual-format discs would save them money.


Or one of the formats could tank?
By MrDiSante on 1/4/2007 4:56:12 PM , Rating: 2
Personally, I hope it's Blu-ray - picture looks about the same to me as does the sound, but HD-DVD's cheaper, so go HD-DVD!




RE: Or one of the formats could tank?
By therealnickdanger on 1/4/2007 5:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not going to lie, I hope Blu-Ray knuckles under on the basis of cost alone, but just as I thought, a multi-format player will end the war for consumers. Now you just buy the movie you want and don't worry about compatibility. Seems pretty dumb of Sony to have included the BD-drive now. Since multi-format players will rule the market, the PS3 loses its edge as "the cheap Blu-Ray player" since people won't want to have something that only plays one format. I used to question Microsoft's exclusion of the internal HD-DVD drive... now it makes much more sense.


RE: Or one of the formats could tank?
By DigitalFreak on 1/4/2007 5:24:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seems pretty dumb of Sony to have included the BD-drive now. Since multi-format players will rule the market, the PS3 loses its edge as "the cheap Blu-Ray player" since people won't want to have something that only plays one format.


This is exactly shy Sony prohibits "dual format" players in the Blu-ray license agreement. It will be intersting to see how LG gets around this with their player. Sony sucks.


RE: Or one of the formats could tank?
By androticus on 1/5/2007 1:55:23 AM , Rating: 3
quote:

Sony prohibits "dual format" players in the Blu-ray license agreement.


Well... I don't know if this is rumor or truth -- do you have a reference?

quote:

It will be [interesting] to see how LG gets around this with their player


If the license restriction is true, maybe LG is counting on competition law -- I know the EU recently requested info from Sony on this matter, presumably because of complaints or concerns about allegedly overly restrictive licensing. It wouldn't surprise me if a company like LG, planning this kind of product, instigated such an initiative -- maybe they are counting on Sony being too timid to sue, or else being blocked from doing so. After all, Sony is hardly on a position of moral high ground these days!

(I disagree with competition law, but that is a different matter from whether it exists and/or whether a company like LG will try to use it.)

As a wider point, I think amazon.com should be a poster boy for the genius of inclusive marketing and product development -- all conventional wisdom on business would suggest that Amazon Merchants is crazy--sponsoring your competition that typically undersell you??? But the genius part is that everyone goes to Amazon for books, not to whatever would have emerged had Amazon ignored used and independent booksellers. And Amazon gets a cut of all the revenue anyway.

Likewise, if these executives in the BR or HD camps had any smarts, they would realize that hybrid would be a boon, not a threat, since it would end the worry that a machine would become obsolete, and thus lower the risk for everyone (producers and consumers alike). What is insane is that the BR and HD camps are fighting to win a small market, when they could be "copeting" to each gain a sizable share of a HUGE market! Hmmm... let me see... 100% of $100M is $100M... now lets say the "loser" in a hybrid scheme only makes 25% share... 25% of (let's say) $5B is... HELLO!!!!

I think the BR and HD executives have been using Steve Ballmer as their inspiration -- maybe they should consider using one of the most innovative and brilliant CEOs (Jeff Bezos) as their role model, not one of the least innovative, dullest, and, well, I could rant on SB's shortcomings for paragraphs, and that's offtopic, so I'll end here...



By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 7:30:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
> "Sony prohibits "dual format" players in the Blu-ray license agreement.

Well... I don't know if this is rumor or truth -- do you have a reference? ...
...
The BR licensing agreement is visible only to licensees, so its just a rumor...but a rumor with teeth. The EU launched an investigation on this basis a few months ago.


By shaw on 1/4/2007 5:31:23 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, I'm behind HD-DVD just because it's cheaper. They're both big enough to hold HD content with VC-1 compression.


Sony deserve to sink
By mectron on 1/4/2007 7:29:36 PM , Rating: 1
Sony is a CRIMINAL corporate and since it as not been shutdown over the million of computer their infected with VIRUS. Custmoter need to do it with their wallet. The PS3 is a piece of junk. Blue Ray is infested with illegal copy protection that it should be a crime just to sell it. One top of that HD DVD as been crack so you can view a HD DVD movie on any device own. 2007 is the year Sony sink...




RE: Sony deserve to sink
By johnsonx on 1/4/2007 11:30:52 PM , Rating: 2
Beenthere?
Cornfedone?

Cramitpal?


RE: Sony deserve to sink
By dubldwn on 1/5/2007 12:41:54 AM , Rating: 2
Wow. What...I mean, you're...are you angry?


RE: Sony deserve to sink
By phusg on 1/5/2007 8:19:40 AM , Rating: 2
I'm with you on hoping that Sony/Blu-ray will wither in 2007, but HD-DVD HAS NOT BEEN CRACKED. It uses the same copy protection as Blu-ray. What that cracker recently showed is that if you have the keys to a particular disc you can decrypt it. Not a huge deal.


RE: Sony deserve to sink
By Spivonious on 1/5/2007 2:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
What kind of mileage do you get with a custmoter?


Too Expensive
By BladeVenom on 1/4/2007 6:01:04 PM , Rating: 2
The most expensive part of a DVD player now is the licensing costs. If that were doubled because of having to pay licensing for both formats, there would never be cheap players.

Both of them are already obsolete. It's time to move to holographic discs.




RE: Too Expensive
By S3anister on 1/4/2007 11:28:40 PM , Rating: 2
you don't need holographic discs!!! unless you wanted to show your movies in a COMPLETELY RAW format!!!

but even then, i DOUBT a completely RAW format would max out a holographic disc. but then again, maybe it would...


RE: Too Expensive
By lotharamious on 1/6/2007 3:11:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
you don't need holographic discs!!!

Ummm... maybe not. What if you wanted to check Donald Trump's mop for lice? I'm sure you could do it with this baby...

http://tgdaily.com/2007/01/03/westinghouse_2160p_t...


Silly Execs
By lamestlamer on 1/5/2007 3:02:08 AM , Rating: 2
Great! So they combine two technologies that I hate into a single product that can be loathed by all while being more expensive.

What next? Is the gas station going to start forcing me to buy a fuel that can run in diesel and gas engines but is more expensive and under performs in both?

The fact that the market cannot even bear one HD format should be a hint to Sony and Toshiba that a war is only going to further their losses into a failed venture. Consumers don't like formats: they like things that are simple, cheap, and work. HDTV and HD media are none of those. The reason why HDTV has taken off is completely independant of the format: people like large TVs for little money and HDTVs fill that niche. A strong majority of HDTV buyers have no clue what the HD format is and have never fed their TVs an HD signal. My friends don't even notice the difference between 1080P and DVDs on my display (I AM a memeber of the niche market that the whole HD movement targets).





RE: Silly Execs
By rykerabel on 1/5/2007 5:21:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but my friends couldn't tell the difference between VHS and DVD either, but look at DVD now.

We'll drag the legally blind masses to better video whether they care or not.

LOL


RE: Silly Execs
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 9:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
> "Yeah, but my friends couldn't tell the difference between VHS and DVD either, but look at DVD now."

The reasons for DVD's success had little to do with picture quality, however. The form factor was much smaller, the discs were far more durable, and (most important of all, perhaps) it mean the end of tape rewinding.


Sony will crush iteself
By kwijibo950 on 1/4/2007 6:14:06 PM , Rating: 3
Im going to buy a PS3 and hook it up to my minidisk player. Hopefully it will play the cds that sony gave me that have rootkit viruses... Did I mention that my Sony laptop battery burnt down my house? Do you think blue-ray will go the way of PSP or UMD or any other crappy technology those greedy bastards throw at us? Please take my advise, don't buy sony technology. The only thing they do well is make mediocre products. If you're going to buy a tape player buy a walkman. Otherwise you're most likely paying too much for a crappy product.




RE: Sony will crush iteself
By rykerabel on 1/5/2007 5:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
thanks to Sony, you at least have those choices.

PSP > DS (for me; my son likes psp and DS equally)
UMD: only failed because Sony never let us have a recorder to make our own.
MiniDisk: only failed in the US, everywhere else its wildly popular
rootkit virus: um, look it up, rootkits are very common tools used for security software. only problem Sony had was not INFORMING the costumers (BAD Sony, no biscuit, but not the only ones to do it since you don't know how common they are)
PS3: I got one, and a week later I already love my choice and wouldn't even sell it for $1000 (well, ok, but then i'd just buy another one and keep the ~$350)
burning batteries: now known to be a flaw inherent to Lithium Ion battery standards and Sony cannot be faulted when the STANDARDS themselves proved inadequate. the massive recall from Sony is a huge mark in Sony's favor
BD > HD-DVD: just compare the standards for yourself, don't take my word for it.

Yes, Sony products are not as good as they used to be, but from my experience, niether are Hitachi nor Toshiba nor anyone elses either. Its like the whole consumer electronics world has decided to go out for lunch and hasn't yet come back


YOu sony haters
By michal1980 on 1/4/07, Rating: -1
RE: YOu sony haters
By davmat on 1/5/2007 11:21:23 AM , Rating: 3
Man, thats what we do. We hate the Big Corp's .. big deal. Sony kinda deserves it a little. This company has a history trying to ram it own formats down our throats. Minidisc, Memory Stick, BetaMax, freaking viruses for the love of the baby jesus! At some point we need to hold these companies responsible for the crap they try to force feed people. Come on. Enough is enough! Sony also has a history of good products: Walkman, PSP, Playstation, Trinitron, but Sony does not know how to COMPETE. Sure they can dominate the hell out of a market. But, when competition is thrown their way, they suck at it. Sony & Microsoft use the SAME formula to handle competition. And yeah, We get tired of it!


RE: YOu sony haters
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 12:50:10 PM , Rating: 1
> "has a history trying to ram it own formats down our throats. Minidisc, Memory Stick, BetaMax..."

Do you understand the concept of a free market? How exactly is offering you the free choice of purchasing a product trying to "ram it down" your throat? I don't see Sony lobbying Congressmen to legally mandate any of their formats.

BetaMax was clearly a superior format to VHS. You're angry at Sony for offering consumers a better product? As for the format "failing", you have to realize that Video8/Hi8 are simply scaled down versions of Betamax, and those two formats wound up dominating the camcorder market, whereas VHS-C pretty much failed utterly. Why? Because consumers preferred the Sony format to all others.

I vastly prefer free choice myself. Instead of the government or a small group of companies dictating to me that I must buy a specific format, I'd rather choose for myself. That way I get what I want...not what others want me to have.


HD is for gay porn
By s o86s 06h on 1/4/07, Rating: -1
RE: HD is for gay porn
By johnsonx on 1/4/2007 11:36:06 PM , Rating: 2
While that juvenile post is not at all worth reading, it does bring to mind an interesting point:

The porn industry picked VHS over Betamax, and we well know the result (at least those of us who still remember video tapes!).

So perhaps the porn industry will decide for us again. All who buy HD porn, please buy it on HD-DVD only.


RE: HD is for gay porn
By S3anister on 1/4/2007 11:37:49 PM , Rating: 2
did you break your TV with too many "strong" movements from your hands?

sound familiar?

lol. Wii - it's user error.

maybe you should sue the HD DVD companies because your got your TV damaged from your money $hot


RE: HD is for gay porn
By moonraker3000 on 1/4/2007 11:39:43 PM , Rating: 1
best. post. ever.


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