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Print 64 comment(s) - last by glennpratt.. on Jan 4 at 3:10 AM

BackupHDDVD may be this generations DeCSS

This article was first published on HWUpgrade.com

It hasn’t been completely verified yet, but a user named "muslix64" has posted an exploit in a thread on the Doom9 forum claiming he has been able to circumvent AACS, the encoding format used to protect HD DVD and Blu-ray content.

"Muslix64" claims to have completely backed up an HD DVD movie and provides a Rapidshare link to download BackupHDDVD, a small Java-based utility that aids users to backup their HD DVDs. A YouTube link to see the program in action has also been posted.

"Muslix64" describes the utility as "a java based command line utility that decrypt video files (.evo) from a HD DVD disk that you own, to your hard drive and you can play them back with a HD DVD player software."

Although much of the dirty work in backing up an HD DVD movie is done by the tool, users are still required to find their own cryptographic keys for the disc being copied. No guidance is provided to help users find the keys but the author suggests the process is trivial, which suggests some exploit in the player software or hardware exists as the keys are not meant to be easily obtained.

Although the exploit hasn’t been completely confirmed yet, if it turns out to be true it could mean a number of things. For one, it is possible that we might start seeing pirated HD DVD content. In addition, since Blu-ray also uses AACS, we might see a similar crack be released for Blu-ray movies in the next couple of weeks.

"Muslix64" claims the tool works on his XBOX 360 external HD DVD player, but that the software should not be limited to just one specific player.


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Duh.
By edpsx on 12/28/2006 1:07:46 PM , Rating: 3
Like we didnt see this coming. I like the idea of being able to backup a movie to my HDD, but you'd have to have a burner to put it back on disc otherwise it wouldnt be a viable option for me. I want to watch it VIA my tv and HD player not on my computer, yet some people wont care.




RE: Duh.
By zombiexl on 12/28/2006 1:11:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you'd have to have a burner to put it back on disc otherwise it wouldnt be a viable option for me


It woud probably be cheaper to buy whatever movies are out on HD-DVD that you want than to buy the burner and media (assuming it would even work).


RE: Duh.
By Christopher1 on 12/29/2006 12:48:57 AM , Rating: 2
For a while, your arguement would be true. But once HD-DVD or BluRay wins the war, becomes standard and the price drops for both...... it will be worth it, though really, torrenting a 25 GB file?

It would take WEEKS to download, even on my Cable Internet connection!


RE: Duh.
By Nimbo on 12/29/2006 10:03:27 AM , Rating: 2
Ironically HD-DVD will benefit in the format wars against BluRay from the ability to make copies. As soon as pirated copies are available you will want to have an HD-DVD player and not an BluRay. This could be the "extra feature" that gives HD-DVD the victory.


RE: Duh.
By Steve Guilliot on 12/30/2006 3:08:27 PM , Rating: 2
Except... when the studios start steering away from HDDVD due to the exploit, there won't be as much content to pirate.

If a Bluray exploit comes out too, then it becomes a wash. Either way, not really an HDDVD advantage unless studios continue to pump out content for a medium they know is compromised.


RE: Duh.
By glennpratt on 1/4/2007 3:10:35 AM , Rating: 2
Like DVDs, CDs, iTunes, PlaysForSure, etc, etc. They've all been compromised. I think the studio mostly wants it to be easier for a level headed consumer to buy what they want rather then rip/torrent and burn.


RE: Duh.
By tacorly on 12/28/06, Rating: 0
RE: Duh.
By FITCamaro on 12/28/2006 1:15:00 PM , Rating: 5
You rip it your PC, reencode it as an AVI file (when AutoGK or other tools are able to) and then stream it to your Xbox 360 or other media player that can interface with shared network drives. Problem solved. Right now I use my Xbox with XBMC to stream video to my TV from my PC.


RE: Duh.
By ChugokuOtaku on 12/28/2006 1:22:33 PM , Rating: 2
can't wait to see those re-encoded files get dumbed online, and watch them spread via torrents *cheers*


RE: Duh.
By MrDiSante on 12/28/2006 1:47:18 PM , Rating: 1
Don't know what the connections are like where you live but the major providers of internet over here in Toronto (Canada) don't offer more than 6Mb/s down (for 65$), and one of them happens to choke torrent so you have to encrypt it.
Now even assuming you get your theoretical full 6Mb down, that's gonna be a hell of a pain in the ass to download. VC-1 isn't as shitty as MPEG-2, it doesn't compress 5X to DivX/XviD with virtually no quality loss. The files will probably be around 6-7GB.
That ends up being around 2.5 hours/movie at your full theoretical 6Mb (which really never happens). Realistically you'll be lucky to get 250KB/s for a torrent which gives you an optimistic 8 hours/movie. No HD for North Americans over bittorent for a few more years.


RE: Duh.
By GreenEnvt on 12/28/2006 3:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
Try doing some more shopping around,
Cogeco's standard internet package is 10 megabit down now, for $45 a month.

I quite regularly get over 650KB/s while downloading.


RE: Duh.
By hocanada on 12/29/2006 9:55:09 AM , Rating: 2
As well Shaw offers 10mbps down and 25mbps down with their nitro package (140GB cap). In Saskatchewan the DSL provider (Sasktel) is launching a 20mbps and 40mbps (with no b/w cap) service very soon as they have implemented VDSL for their HDTV/SD over IP cable offering. This is going to be a fun year for bandwidth whores


RE: Duh.
By ChugokuOtaku on 12/28/2006 3:20:39 PM , Rating: 2
well, I really don't care much for speed.
I get my HD torrents from Chinese BT sites.
They've been hosting 720p/1080i/1080p for atleast half a year now. Granted, it takes longer to download, but I've already downloaded hundreds of movies(non-HD of course), which more than 2/3 I've yet to watch, so I'm in no rush. Point being, I'm willing to wait and have it take it's time, as long as it's free HD res movies.

Since you asked, I'm on 3meg down stream DSL, and I keep that torrent client going 24/7


RE: Duh.
By duzytata on 12/28/2006 5:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
I have a crappy DSL connection and I can get full DVD5 movies in under 24 hours. I don't mind the wait either. I usually find something I want to watch the night before and start the torrent before I go to bed. By the next evening it's ready to go. Works out great for me and I pay $16 a month for 300KB/s download speed from AT&T.


RE: Duh.
By abhaxus on 12/29/2006 12:36:51 AM , Rating: 2
my torrents regularly top 1.3-1.4 MB/s with comcast high speed tier 8mbps (yes thats more than advertised speed). Takes no time at all to get most of the 720p x264 movies out there. Can't wait to see some movies start rolling out at 1080p. Then again my monitor is only 945p or whatever.


RE: Duh.
By arodessa on 12/29/2006 12:34:22 PM , Rating: 2
Which one chokes torrents? I am also in toronto, just wondering if mine does.


RE: Duh.
By bunnyfubbles on 12/28/2006 1:42:52 PM , Rating: 1
that kind of defeats the point of HD...


RE: Duh.
By Kamasutra on 12/28/2006 3:48:31 PM , Rating: 2
How so? I thought "the [main] point of HD" was the increased resolution, which would not be sacrificed by transcoding to a medium with increased efficiency of video storage. Sure there would be compression artifacts, but that case is no different than when transcoding DVD, or even having the studio author the release -- all three video standards used for HD media are lossy.

Now I certainly wouldn't use AutoGK, and probably not AVI, if I wanted to maintain optimal fidelity, but that is a whole other discussion.


RE: Duh.
By Hydrofirex on 12/28/2006 3:50:05 PM , Rating: 5
NOT AT ALL.
You can get HD resolution content right now if you know where to look (Terminator 2 runs in at something over 15 Gigs.) And, compressed HD content looks absolutely fantastic - assuming you actually have a display source which plays at 1080p - and not just something that claims to be "HD." Also, of course, the encoder has to know what they're doing.

Remember compression was toted by the respective companies as an alternative to the DVD format war. Not that I agree with that, but you can definitely shave off Gigs of file-size without any loss in quality - IMO at least. Until High-capacity burners come out, unless you have a dearth of hard disk space, I don't know what you would do with a full DVD - or even compressed Full DVD at the kind of file sizes that result.

On the issue of "revocable keys": once the DVD is ripped there is a myriad of things you can do to it so that you'll never have to worry about keys. Further, once a disc is burnt and distributed how can they revoke and change a key that is hard written to a disc? And, who honestly cares that much about additional content, which could all theoretically be ripped to compressed file formats and distributed separately? I'm sure someone could even patch a release with the newest features if they wanted to take the time to do it.

Piracy is definitely the winner! But remember: as long as I can watch it, I can record it. You can't stop that fundamental truth.

HfX


RE: Duh.
By PenGun on 12/28/2006 10:33:24 PM , Rating: 2
Seen the 22 gig Gladiator? Hard drives are cheap and my GT6600 runs my Sony 34XS955, the CRT HDTV bomb, pretty well ;).


RE: Duh.
By masher2 (blog) on 12/28/2006 11:51:55 PM , Rating: 1
Hard drives may be cheap, but I have well over 1,000 DVD movies now...and a slowly growing collection of HD-DVDs. Good luck fitting that all on disk.


RE: Duh.
By PenGun on 12/29/2006 1:12:50 PM , Rating: 2
There are only a few movies I'll watch so I just don't understand a 1000 ;).

I'm hoovering up HD documentrys at an alarming rate however. I can double my .8 terrabyte array for under $400 which is not much really.


RE: Duh.
By FITCamaro on 12/28/2006 3:50:47 PM , Rating: 2
Why? Divx and other codecs have HD settings. Yes the file is still going to be big but you can get it smaller than the raw size.


RE: Duh.
By feraltoad on 12/29/2006 1:13:41 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't see it coming some guy would say he was mad about DRM one night when his TV wouldn't play from his video card so he sat down and just figured out to break some supossedly amazing system by reading the companies own online documentation with what sounds like ease (for smart types like him obviously). AND THEN he puts it up for download for FREE and includes source code. AND he does this all before HDDVD has even started up? No I didn't see that coming at all. One thing though, we need to buy this man a BluRay Drive for his computer. I hope he gets mad bout high gas prices and thinks about solving that.


Keys are revocable.
By Eug on 12/28/2006 1:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
Part of the AACS spec is to include revocable keys. So, the key for this is going to be changed. It was designed this way specifically to address issues like this.




RE: Keys are revocable.
By sabrewulf on 12/28/2006 1:56:14 PM , Rating: 3
So? Once all the protection is removed, you don't need the keys anymore anyway, right?


RE: Keys are revocable.
By Eug on 12/28/2006 3:14:05 PM , Rating: 3
The reason why so many people decrypt and backup DVDs is because they can. However, on HD DVD (and Blu-ray), once one person does it by using the decryption key, that destroys it for everyone else, cuz the player's decryption key gets revoked.

This key revocation doesn't happen with DVD, so everyone can rip DVDs, and thus ripped DVDs are widely avaiable.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By jimmy43 on 12/28/2006 2:20:59 PM , Rating: 2
Can't revoke a key if you dont let it connect to the net. Pretty much the first step to pirating any software is turning off automatic updates, so it shouldnt be a problem.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By Martin Blank on 12/28/2006 2:59:36 PM , Rating: 2
Doing so may prevent viewing of material released later, as the spec allows for issuance of new cryptographic materials. You may be able to watch everything up to the date of the update, but not a single thing after that.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By Eug on 12/28/2006 3:01:13 PM , Rating: 2
"Can't revoke a key if you dont let it connect to the net. Pretty much the first step to pirating any software is turning off automatic updates, so it shouldnt be a problem."

Except that you won't be able to play new discs with that player. I'd say that's a pretty big problem. ;)


RE: Keys are revocable.
By InternetGeek on 12/28/2006 2:27:17 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. It will turn into a game of revoke/crack pretty much like virus/antiviruses. So on the end things ended up being the same: Rip the movie, encode into a smaller format with similar quality, burn, and for those into that kind of stuff, sell it on the street for pennies.

I'm not advocating copyright infringement, but I thought the investment in hd-dvd/blue-ray, beyond the improvement in quality, was to get rid of piracy once and for all.

On the end I could just have an unplugged PC doing all the ripping. All I would have to do is figure a way to get rid of any watermarks or other security tags and voila.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By Eug on 12/28/2006 3:05:13 PM , Rating: 1
"On the end I could just have an unplugged PC doing all the ripping. All I would have to do is figure a way to get rid of any watermarks or other security tags and voila."

That will only work for old discs. Discs released later likely won't work on the old player.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By InternetGeek on 12/28/2006 4:23:29 PM , Rating: 2
How long until someone circumvents that as well?



RE: Keys are revocable.
By Eug on 12/28/2006 4:26:39 PM , Rating: 2
"How long until someone circumvents that as well? "

No idea, but the point was that BackupHDDVD doesn't have the same significance as DeCSS.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By InternetGeek on 12/29/2006 5:09:56 AM , Rating: 2
Do you think so?. It actually took a shorter time since release to get a ripping tool when compared with DVDs. I'm sure it won't be long until they also break the keys. I'm not trying to be a fatalist, but I suspect HD formats won't really fly until someone cracks them.


RE: Keys are revocable.
By mrxavia on 12/29/2006 9:13:58 AM , Rating: 2
The Keys are in the HDMI part of it, to stop you from watching HD content on a non protected tv, I read the spec, and it seems easy enough to fool. But the real problem with is is that all you need to make this worthless, is for a major LCD/Plasma TV manufacturer to have all its HDMI keys made public, that key is revoked, so the next time you buy a new HD-DVD, or use HD-Sky/or HD-Digital TV, it will dissable your HD content!!

I am supprised the manufacturers actually Agreed to this...

I would not be supprised if some rich people with a grudge against restrictions brought TV's, hacked them to get the keys and then published them... And its BYE BYE to the millions of TV's, they would have to be recalled, and some major lawsuits will unfold... I dont see Sony sitting back and loosing money due to a flawd system...


RE: Keys are revocable.
By abhaxus on 12/29/2006 9:58:49 PM , Rating: 2
You are thinking of the keys for HDCP, which are completely different and separate (but possibly more annoying) than AACS.


great news if true
By johnsonx on 12/28/2006 1:22:28 PM , Rating: 5
This is potentially great news. I think a significant percentage of people will not be willing to move to either HD disc standard until there are software tools available to repair the damage inflicted by DRM.




RE: great news if true
By vhato on 12/28/2006 1:32:54 PM , Rating: 2
Could not have said it better myself.


RE: great news if true
By Marlowe on 12/28/2006 2:49:09 PM , Rating: 3
Haha! Just as The Inquirer wrote two days ago!

"HD disk format wars are over - A clear victor emerges - Piracy!"

Lol :D

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36...


RE: great news if true
By codeThug on 12/29/2006 12:01:42 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the pointer. That article made my day.


RE: great news if true
By wien on 12/29/2006 5:52:20 AM , Rating: 2
If you don't want DRMed content, why would you even consider buying it? Even if you crack it at home, the execs at MPAA and RIAA won't get the message if we complain and complain, but still keep buying their crippled stuff.

If you want to support the creators, buy a DRM-free version on CD/DVD, and pirate the MP3-encoded/high-resolution version of said content. (I know DVD also has DRM, but that scheme is far less restrictive, which kind of proves my point. We ate the DVD DRM raw, so now we're getting a "new and improved" scheme for the next generation.)


well
By sprockkets on 12/28/2006 1:21:27 PM , Rating: 4
It has already been said the scheme is really in place just to be a formality for the DMCA to be enforced.




RE: well
By wien on 12/29/2006 5:57:01 AM , Rating: 3
Couldn't they just encrypt using ROT13 then, and give us all a break? :)


Think of the uses...
By zombiexl on 12/28/2006 1:08:08 PM , Rating: 2
I could backup the 3 or 4 movies that are on HD-DVD that I may actually want to have, I guess it's too bad I already bought them..

I'm gonna have to download this and add it to my list of software to try out some day in the distant future.




RE: Think of the uses...
By Zirconium on 12/28/06, Rating: -1
RE: Think of the uses...
By zombiexl on 12/28/2006 1:46:37 PM , Rating: 2
The point was there is not enough content that I want to make it worth doing. I mentioned that I already own the one's I want to make my point.


RE: Think of the uses...
By Zirconium on 12/28/06, Rating: -1
RE: Think of the uses...
By zombiexl on 12/28/2006 4:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I meant backing up the ones I have, but really both.

Right now with the size of movies (and cost/availability of burners/media) neither option is worth it. I'd rather buy the few that are out that I want and take care of them.

I havent checked for any recent (this week) releases, but I have all the HD-DVD's that I want, and a few I dont want.


HD DVD cracked huh?
By MDme on 12/28/2006 10:08:34 PM , Rating: 2
Hope this doesn't give the edge to Blu-ray since I'm hoping HD-DVD wins so we can stop all the proprietary format Sony is forcing down our throats.




RE: HD DVD cracked huh?
By Christopher1 on 12/29/2006 12:50:42 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, this might give the edge to HD-DVD! Consumers do NOT like being told that they cannot backup things that they have legally bought.

Since this tool now allows them to do it for HD-DVD's...... consumers might go towards this format because it has been cracked.


Bring it on...!
By Senju on 12/28/2006 11:39:22 PM , Rating: 1
I will not look into HD or Blueray until all the HW and software tools are organized so I can rip them to my HDD or burn it on a HD disk. I save so much money by just going to my nearby DVD rental store, pick up a favorite movie, rip it, burn it and return the rental DVD in about 30 minutes. Now I have it for my libary and rip it again and send them to my friends as gifts. :D Again, I will not move to HD content until these tools are there! But it looks like we are getting closer! :D




RE: Bring it on...!
By michal1980 on 12/29/06, Rating: -1
RE: Bring it on...!
By zombiexl on 12/29/2006 12:12:50 PM , Rating: 2
Did you really just admit to illegal activities on a public forum?

You can brag all you want about what you do, but doing so on a public forum is just retarded.


RE: Bring it on...!
By slash196 on 1/1/2007 10:26:36 PM , Rating: 2
I highly doubt the MPAA is going to go to the trouble of tracing one post on one random tech news site, and even if they did, they still wouldn't have any actual proof of wrongdoing.

As for the whole size issue: when DVDs were first introduced, it was equally implausible for DVD rips to be sent over the internet. Now it's commonplace. Give it a few years, we're all waiting anyway for the format wars to end.


Muslix64 shows the real value of HDCP and DRM
By greylica on 12/29/2006 10:05:50 AM , Rating: 2
HDCP and DRM are complete inutilities, providing you will buy an inutil silicon waste in the near future with the Microsoft Specs for Vista. They want to criptograph the communications between GPU and CPU too.

Astalavista precise debugging of errors. First you will have to decript...OMG.
The future sounds like an true DRM insanity




By FITCamaro on 12/29/2006 12:22:46 PM , Rating: 2
What do HDCP and DRM have to do with Vista? It's going to support it yes but both have been around longer than even the idea of Vista has.

And why would they encrypt the communications between the CPU and the GPU for everything? That just adds more load on both components since either the chip would have to decrypt it or they'd have to spend the cash to integrate a chip onto both to decrypt the messages. And nothing like that exists in current CPUs or GPUs. Now if you're just talking for high def video thats different. But encrypting the communications between PC components during a video game would be retarded and something they'd have no reason to do.


Why Not Just Read the LCD Matrix?
By porkster on 12/30/2006 4:47:49 PM , Rating: 2
If you had a LCD circuit that could do the resolution and refresh rate of the HD or Blueray movie, then you could make a reading circuit that interfaced the raw matrix bits that are given to the LCD glass panel. You could then convert the data to your own movie format as it reads what is displayed. The sound is another matter.




By peternelson on 1/1/2007 7:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah of course this can be done, the electronics are not that hard.

However you have the bandwidth of the uncompressed stream to deal with ie equivalent to the professional format HDSDI.

You then need a realtime encoder that can do HDSDI > Mpeg4 or your chosen format (and good quality ones aren't cheap).

Further I suspect that the decoded picture contains some signature or watermark that can be read to identify the equipment that did the decoding. Thus if you pirate it for redistribution, then the authorities would be able to trace all those copies back to your equipment. Of course you might detect and remove those stamps, but since there is more than one technology you need to know what you are doing.

The costs of the system are not justified for home use, therefore the only application for it is mass piracy or making material available for unencrypted museum archive say a century from now.


Well Boo hoo hoo
By Cuboid on 12/29/2006 8:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
We all knew this was gonna happen anyway. No matter what encryption they come up with, it will always eventually be broken!

It's cheap enough to buy a few hard drives, RAID them together and rip them onto the RAID array

If it was on torrent, it shouldn't be that hard for people to download if they are on the 24Mbits/s ADSL connections over here in the UK




HD
By slash196 on 1/1/2007 10:37:18 PM , Rating: 2
And what's all this silliness about not being able to watch HD content on current plaforms? I download HD video all the time, plays just fine on my CRT and DVI output. Of course, I don't download HD movies, but since I'm usually DLing screener rips or cams anyway that hardly matters. I don't need to see the moles on Will Ferrel's nose to like a movie. The only sway HD might have over me is in the sports segment, watching football in HD is quite awesome, but of course that has nothing to do with HDCP or Blu-Ray, and besides, the TV technology has not sufficiently matured to sell me on it anyway. Show me flat-panel HD that actually looks good (I'm looking at you, LCD) for under 500 bucks and then we'll talk.




Just goes to show.
By aceadoni on 1/3/2007 7:22:49 PM , Rating: 2
You piss off a consumer that wants to enjoy what they have paid for with the jobs they must go to day in and day out and you get a dedicated individual in most cases that will find a way to get what they want. I wonder how many "Management Meetings" were spent on the development of an encrytion method that was as it appears so simple to crack.




Yeah funny
By Sharky974 on 12/29/06, Rating: -1
RE: Yeah funny
By BeastieBoy on 12/29/2006 9:53:04 AM , Rating: 2
No, actually Blu-Ray didn't get cracked. Read the link.


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