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Print 29 comment(s) - last by trackingamd.. on Dec 27 at 11:46 AM

Licensing, confusion causes delays

AMD was expected to release its long awaited ATI RS690 integrated graphics chipset shortly after the AM2 launch in mid-2006. Since the AMD acquisition of ATI, the chipset has since been renamed to AMD 690. The AMD 690 chipset is currently in its A12 stepping, which is near final silicon. However, AMD has run into a slight delay with the AMD 690 chipset.

AMD is asking major members of the Chinese media to remove all references of the chipset in articles from their publications by Christmas day or be left out when it comes to review samples.

Motherboard samples based on the AMD 690 chipset were expected early next year. Manufacturers were expected to have motherboards ready to be shipped as early as January 2007. Nevertheless, it appears AMD is waiting until early February 2007 to launch the long-awaited and delayed AMD 690.

DailyTech has learned the further delay of the AMD 690 chipset is likely due to licensing issues regarding its HDCP implementation. While AMD possesses the proper licensing for HDCP support on several products, it lacks licensing for the AMD 690 specifically. This is because the HDMI consortium requires additional licensing fees per product in addition to the yearly fees AMD already pays for its HDCP-compliant products.

HDCP is just the tip of the iceberg. The AMD 690’s support for HDMI is also brought to question. Although the TMDS transmitter endowed AMD 690 variants will support HDMI with the proper external chips, AMD isn’t allowed to mention HDMI support without a license. Specific manufacturers anticipating to announce RS690 motherboards -- MSI, DFI and ASUS -- will still need valid licenses for HDMI, HDCP and Macrovision, as well as per-board validation. 

Recently, ATI came under close scrutiny with regard to false claims regarding HDCP readiness.  HDMI, HDCP and Macrovision need to be licensed on the chipset vendor and the motherboard manufacturer, and it appears as though AMD is hardpressed to repeat the mistake made by ATI last year.

Despite setbacks, ASUS is expected to have an AMD 690 based motherboard ready next month, though it will most likely lack HDMI and HDCP support.


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Typical Licensing BS
By slashbinslashbash on 12/21/2006 2:49:19 AM , Rating: 2
Well, it's good to know that it's not being delayed due to actual technical reasons.... it's just politics and licensing BS. Those who come up with overly-wrought "standards" benefit while those who are just trying to bring a product to market are dragged down and delayed.

As an aside, it looks like my current machine will be the last I own with no hardware content protection. The next generation looks like we will have DRM forced down our throats with support for HDMI, HDCP, and God knows what else embedded in CPU's, GPU's, sound cards, and motherboards. Before you know it, you will have to buy HDCP-enabled SATA cables to hook up your internal Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive to your motherboard.

BTW DailyTech, it is absurd that you have not fixed the "Oooops!" BS yet. It is clearly a time-related thing. There is a cookie or something that expires after like 5 minutes. This is way too short. Tell your webmaster to change that variable. Simple as that. You want to hire me, I can do it. $10 and I'll fix it.




RE: Typical Licensing BS
By phusg on 12/21/2006 4:05:29 AM , Rating: 2
Here here. Please fix these Oopss! errors!!!


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 12/21/2006 4:47:18 AM , Rating: 1
The error has to do with a bit of Javascript not loading/executing incorrectly. We've been working on the problem and will have it fixed very soon.


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By Kougar on 12/21/2006 10:21:43 AM , Rating: 2
Nice to know I'm not the only one with this headache. I use Opera 9.10 and get them all the time, the only way to get around them is to go back, completely reload the page, then start over. Hope ya can pinpoint the issue soon!


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By dice1111 on 12/21/2006 9:22:27 AM , Rating: 2
HDCP SATA cables? Can't you give us some more info on this? This is new to me.


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By chucky2 on 12/21/2006 1:47:09 PM , Rating: 2
He was being sarcastic...

...and I agree, HDCP is just another hassle for me as a consumer...but to ignore the need for it in the future would be foolish, the writing is on the wall (or is in the midst of being written).

Chuck


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By Targon on 12/21/2006 5:44:39 PM , Rating: 2
In order to display HD-DVD and Blu-Ray content at the proper resolution, you need the player to support HDCP(High Def Copy Protection), you also need the video card to support HDCP, and on top of that your monitor needs to support HDCP. If any of these does not support HDCP, the resolution will be downgraded to 480p, even if the content is at 1080p.

This is so obnoxious that many people are starting to speculate that you will need cables of every type with HDCP support in order to save or load any video content at a high resolution.


RE: Typical Licensing BS
By leexgx on 12/24/2006 12:59:40 PM , Rating: 2
HDCP should be all auto but any unprotected 1080P stuff should have no problems been played on None HDCP stuff

my self hd-dvd/Blue-ray disk HDCP will not be an problems for me as i proberly never own any real disks


coincidence
By Wwhat on 12/22/2006 9:52:29 AM , Rating: 2
Didn't we see a newsitem this week where AMD announced they were going to support displayport starting in 2007?
Is that not the simple solution then and already decided? perhaps even because of hassle like this.





RE: coincidence
By AnnihilatorX on 12/24/2006 5:17:17 AM , Rating: 2
The fact is not a single display device in the market now has DisplayPort support. To sell the chipset they would first need to support HDMI


Dissapointed
By dmce on 12/21/2006 7:57:13 AM , Rating: 2
I am dissapointed yet again with the delay on this chipset. It seems to be ideal for a HTPC setup.

Reading the article, the licensing issues with HDCP seem to be a major hurdle and a little absurd.

By the time it comes out nVidia will have a similarly capable integrated solution in the MCP68/MCP78

http://forums.ocworkbench.com/bbs/ocworkbench-news...

Interestingly, the MCP78 will be DX10 compliant. Surely the competition at that stage will be another dent in the potential sales of the RS690 (690G). I will be buying the one that comes out first.




RE: Dissapointed
By VooDooAddict on 12/21/2006 11:26:26 AM , Rating: 1
I wondered why there was no press on the next NVIDIA IGP. The 6100 seems to dominate the market if looking for a capable IGP. I'd expect the next generation of their IGP to be quite nice.


AMD I love you man
By dice1111 on 12/21/2006 9:14:43 AM , Rating: 2
Intel is rocken the show with some sweet good priced chips. But good o' compition can make this deal even sweeter.

Where are you AMD? We need you to step up to the plate.




By kilkennycat on 12/21/2006 3:47:39 PM , Rating: 2
The ATi disease?
For the past 2 years, starting with the X1800 family....
Paper-releases, continually delaying ship dates. Actual product releases with insufficient product in the retail channel, and unscrupulous retailers jacking up the prices on the few initially available.





A12 Stepping?
By ChipDude on 12/25/2006 6:47:29 PM , Rating: 2
Are you serious, what kind of company can let a product go thru 12 seperate design tweeks and still not work. What a disaster of a design / debug team AMD must have bought. Only shows you again that Hector really blew his wadd here!




690G delayed due to drivers
By trackingamd on 12/27/2006 11:46:14 AM , Rating: 2
http://forums.ocworkbench.com/bbs/ocworkbench-news...

These guys seem to to know better.

quote:
In fact, we also spoke to a few manufacturers and understand that there is no chipset issue or HDCP licensing issues. The problem lies with the drivers supporting the HDMI interface. It is also why reviews were asked to be removed as they're not representative of what the performance of the retail product.




Nothing works smoothly at................
By crystal clear on 12/22/06, Rating: 0
By crystal clear on 12/23/2006 4:41:34 AM , Rating: 1
Quote-
"All this whilst Intel is busy cutting prices & flooding the market"

Unquote-
Read this-
The cheapest Core 2 Duo 6300 clocked at 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor retail will cost only $183 retail. This boy can be heavily overclocked even with air cooling, some say to 2.6GHz or beyond

also-
All of these details are here so go and make your Yule. Newegg might even ship it to you before Yule Monday. µ

Source-
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36...


By mino on 12/21/2006 5:32:28 AM , Rating: 3
Well, actually the single reason that kept our 100+ PC/server purchase go C2D was the lack of any competitive IGP platform.
Simply put, Intel does NOT have a competitive solution to RS485/SB600 or GF6150/NVS210 AMD flagships. And no, X3000 does NOT cut it.
We REQUIRE not only performance but also compatibility and issue-less drivers. Only ATI/AMD and NVIDIA can offer that at this time.

Also I would not put RS690 so high on the list of priorities as any bussiness or EDU organization shouls go purely to Intel SIP or AMD CSIP based solutions.

IMO until Q3 RS690 will be mostly retail thingie and AMD is pretty good is still having supply issues so anything to bring demand sky-high is bad as of now. At the end of Q1 it would be welcome, but not sooner.


By IntelUser2000 on 12/21/2006 11:30:21 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Well, actually the single reason that kept our 100+ PC/server purchase go C2D was the lack of any competitive IGP platform.
Simply put, Intel does NOT have a competitive solution to RS485/SB600 or GF6150/NVS210 AMD flagships. And no, X3000 does NOT cut it.
We REQUIRE not only performance but also compatibility and issue-less drivers. Only ATI/AMD and NVIDIA can offer that at this time.

Also I would not put RS690 so high on the list of priorities as any bussiness or EDU organization shouls go purely to Intel SIP or AMD CSIP based solutions.

IMO until Q3 RS690 will be mostly retail thingie and AMD is pretty good is still having supply issues so anything to bring demand sky-high is bad as of now. At the end of Q1 it would be welcome, but not sooner.


14.24: http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/main/reviews/0611/9...

Preliminary RS690 benchmarks: http://forums.ocworkbench.com/bbs/ocworkbench-aaae...

Differences between 14.25 and earlier drivers for G965 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/15/review_int...


When the drivers get complete with 14.27 at Jan 2007, or even getting good game support at later this month with 14.26(READ: T&L support, which it doesn't now). Everything will go to X3000's favor :D.


By Avalon on 12/21/2006 12:35:00 PM , Rating: 2
In both of your X3000 links, the X3000 system is using a faster CPU than the comparison system. You can't make any judgement based on that.


By IntelUser2000 on 12/21/2006 1:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In both of your X3000 links, the X3000 system is using a faster CPU than the comparison system. You can't make any judgement based on that.


Sure you can.

First: differences between two CPUs get muddy when looking at the differences between two graphics products. 2x is usual in 3D graphics card world, 10% is usual in CPU world.

Second: Nvidia products use integrated hardware T&L, while Intel products don't. Results?? Intel products will scale better with CPU while Nvidia will stay same. Ever wondered why 945G lost to both C51 and RS480 but not now?? Because the 945G now has a far faster CPU, and 945G scales with it, while ATI/Nvidia products don't. A side effect of software vertex shader.

We'll see what happens when G965 gets hardware T&L soon.

Even though G965 scales well with CPU, I figure out the difference between E6400 and E6700 that contributes to the G965 performance is half the actual performance difference between the two CPUs: around 15%


By chucky2 on 12/21/2006 1:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
I'd had a reply types up this morning, but I got the stupid timeout error and the response was lost...and I have no desire to go type it all again. Check out this link (there are others posted now) and you can see X3000 (with the .25 series driver) is not near as bad as you make it out to be:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/display/...

I will say though one major - at least for my use - detriment of the current G965 offerings is a complete lack of DVI or HDMI out. It's fr3@king 2006 and almost 2007 now Intel...you're supposed to be releasing boards with at least DVI, and ideally DVI/HDMI and D-sub...not JUST D-sub.

Chuck


By IntelUser2000 on 12/21/2006 5:02:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I will say though one major - at least for my use - detriment of the current G965 offerings is a complete lack of DVI or HDMI out. It's fr3@king 2006 and almost 2007 now Intel...you're supposed to be releasing boards with at least DVI, and ideally DVI/HDMI and D-sub...not JUST D-sub.


I think you need to put in a ADD2 card in it to work. Sucks you have to spend additional money to have full feature of the "free" integrated, but for HDMI, you need ADD2 card.

As for DVI, boards like these support it in certain configurations: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/mq/mq_availab...

Oh wait, I am not sure whether it'll have HDMI even with ADD2 card, but I don't understand all the differences anyway.


By jackalsmith on 12/21/2006 10:05:20 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think you have any idea what 'Conroe' is.


By chucky2 on 12/21/2006 1:44:58 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry jackalsmith, I haven't been an Intel guy in the past so I didn't keep close watch on their naming scheme.

What I'm talking about is the Core 2 Duo's, such as the E6300, E6400, and E6600.

Did I get that right this time...I thought those were "Conro"'s?

Chuck


By JeffDM on 12/25/2006 3:07:18 PM , Rating: 2
I think you are correct, the current E-series Intel Core 2 Duo chips were code-named Conroe when they were in development. The X-series dual core is too, though the quad core desktop chip is Kentsfield, but it is still two Conroe dies into one package.


"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson

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