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Print 81 comment(s) - last by Legionosh.. on Oct 25 at 12:49 PM


Figure 1 (Click to Enlarge)

Figure 2 (Click to Enlarge)

Figure 3 (Click to Enlarge)

Figure 4 (Click to Enlarge)
Sony's New Math prices Xbox 360 cost at almost $700

An official Sony document that compares next-generation consoles has been floating around the 'net lately, which we first spotted on Engadget. The document claims that the actual total cost of the Xbox 360 is $698, which apparently has much of the Xbox fan community up in arms.

Much of the controversy stems from the fact that Sony built Microsoft's console setup by starting with a Core system ($299) and then adding on a 20 GB hard drive ($100), a wireless controller ($50), an Xbox Live Gold subscription ($50) and the optional HD-DVD drive ($199), all of which add up to $698. (See figure 1.)

The argument against Sony's method is that it could have started with the Xbox 360 Premium package which, while $100 more than the Core, includes the 20 GB HD and wireless controller, shaving $150 off Sony's figures. The inclusion of the Xbox Live Gold subscription is debatable, as it is still unclear as to how Sony's online service compares to Microsoft's free Xbox Live Silver service.

The $199 HD-DVD drive, though not essential to gaming on the Xbox 360, is added to Sony's comparison on the basis that the PlayStation 3 also doubles as a Blu-ray movie player. Thus, the HD-DVD add-on is 'required' in order for the Xbox 360 to stay competitive in the HD movie space. To shed more light on this reasoning, Engadget received the following response from Dave Karraker, Senior Director of Corporate Communications for SCEA:

"Through our comparison chart we are not implying that you must purchase the myriad of peripherals and add-ons that Microsoft offers to play your Xbox 360. You don't. However, if you want to attempt to come close to the performance of the $499 PlayStation 3 by using your Xbox 360, Core or Premium, you could only do that through expensive add-ons -- that is what our chart is demonstrating. Once you add it all up, it would cost you more than our $499 unit, and you would still not come close to everything we offer, ie: free multiplayer gaming, 50GB storage capacity of Blu-ray disc, Blu-ray disc player for games AND movies, processing power of the Cell Broadband Engine."

One glaring omission from Sony's price comparison is that in order to take full advantage of PlayStation 3's high-definition capabilities, gamers will have to purchase HDMI cables that are not included with either versions of the console. On the other hand, Microsoft includes component cables with every Xbox 360 Premium.

Our own analysis of Sony's document also turned up other peculiarities. Under the "Wireless Communication" field, Sony lists its own machine to have 802.11b, making us scratch our heads at the missing "g". (See figure 3.)

A quick call to Sony, however, cleared up this small matter and we were sent an updated spec-sheet that restores the missing letter and confirms that the 60 GB PlayStation 3 does indeed come standard with IEEE 802.11b/g. (See figure 4.)



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By therealnickdanger on 10/24/2006 3:28:40 PM , Rating: 4
Assuming it is just you with no desire to play online or watch movies, this is the only breakdown that matters:

PS3: $499 +game
360: $299 +game
Wii: $249 +game

Good luck Sony.




RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By Aikouka on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By ShapeGSX on 10/24/2006 3:49:12 PM , Rating: 4
First of all, what on earth do you need a USB hub for on a 360?

Second of all, I managed to get a 4 port USB 2.0 hub for just $2 after rebate recently.

Third, the USB port on the back isn't inconvenient, it is well placed. You don't always (ever?) want cords coming out of the front of your devices.


RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By BioRebel on 10/25/2006 1:25:50 AM , Rating: 2
Yes brilliant, lets use wired controllers instead of the built in wired system which works perfectly fine.


By BioRebel on 10/25/2006 1:27:06 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, I meant use the wireless system.


By Spivonious on 10/24/2006 4:25:43 PM , Rating: 5
Let's compare them on even ground:

PS3: $499 gets you blu-ray, a hard drive, a wireless controller, free online, and SDTV output. Add $50 for HDMI cable, $60 for a game. Total: $609.

XB360: $399 gets you a hard drive, a wireless controller, free online for 3 months, and HDTV output. Add $199 for HD-DVD drive. Total: $598.

Bottomline: They cost the same. They have roughly equal-looking graphics that take a $1500+ tv to even see. They both have a very small selection of games. Enough with the fanboyism already.


By daftrok on 10/24/2006 4:35:44 PM , Rating: 2
$50 dollars for hdmi? www.ehdmi.com more like 10. But I see your point. What with upscaling, firmware updates and usb add-ons, they will become increasingly similar over time, both in quality and price.


By Lonearchon on 10/25/2006 11:23:03 AM , Rating: 2
What about the Xbox360 game?
that would push the Xbox total above the PS3. But you do not need the HD-DVD drive placing it below the PS3.
Personaly I going to wait till the a good RPG comes out for it. there most like will not be a Final Fantasy game for for about a year since they are releasing a Game for a PS2 on 10/31 and hopefully by then prices on both will drop somewhat


By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 9:21:22 AM , Rating: 2
Umm, who said I didn't know how to do it? I simply said I don't know the detailed instructions to sit down and write a manual on it :P.

You want the nitty gritty on where to get the items to hack your XBOX 360? It's not hard to find... hell, the mod website I typically buy everything from has a handfull of chips for the X360

http://www.modchip.ca/store/home.php?cat=284

An' wow, the comment was more of a joke at that. You people get all up in a tizzy when it comes to video game debates... go outside, get some air, then come back in and learn to not make yourself look like an ass next time ;).


By Aikouka on 10/24/2006 3:35:46 PM , Rating: 2
People in Japan sure didn't mind buying the Core system that came with the Blue Dragon pack. :P

Although I can say that I would much rather have the Premium and I do own the Premium XBOX 360.


RE: To play games, it will cost a bare minimum of...
By VIAN on 10/24/2006 4:19:15 PM , Rating: 1
Almost correct.

PS3: $550 - includes: console, 1 game
360: $390 - includes: console, memory card, 1 game
Wii: $340 - includes: console, memory card, 1 game

A memory card is needed, plain and simple. It won't be fun playing the first level of a game like one of my friends did with RE2 on the PSX. I also added a memory card to the Wii for 40 bucks, a price I guessed.


By fk49 on 10/24/2006 6:32:37 PM , Rating: 2
er.. Wii has built in flash memory for save files.
Save files don't need to be huge.

If you REALLY need more space, Wii has a slot for SD cards, not proprietary memory cards. I can grab a 1GB SD card for $30 these days and it can be used in my camera and computer as well.


By Xavian on 10/25/2006 4:57:49 AM , Rating: 2
Wii has 512MB integrated flash for saves, VC games and the OS, memory cards are not needed.


By AnnihilatorX on 10/25/2006 9:51:21 AM , Rating: 2
Why do you need a memory card when you have a built in HDD?


By encryptkeeper on 10/24/2006 5:04:56 PM , Rating: 4
Sony also has the online gameplay listed as free for 6 months. I don't recall reading anything about a fee for online gaming. The DS online community is free, and I think they used that for a basis for Wii's online structure. If I'm wrong let me know, but I think Sony is trying to confuse people here since the web browser is a free download for the first 6 months of the Wii's life.


By Thmstec on 10/24/2006 8:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
well you don't even need a game with the Wii, it comes with Wii sports!


Even simple math is beyond Sony
By MonkeyPaw on 10/24/2006 5:33:40 PM , Rating: 4
No wonder Sony is getting thrashed, they don't even know how to shop economically. If I shopped with their logic, I would buy a car without AC and pay extra to add it later, even though the exact car I wanted was parked right next to the "core" car that I bought instead. Who do they expect to fool with such logic, the smart shopper that knows better, or the impulse buyer/desperate parent that will pay any price to get what they think they want? Also, the last I checked, no XB360 games REQUIRE an HD-DVD drive. So tell me Sony, if these next gen' consoles are not about HD movies, then why mention this option at all? If you want to total up the unnecessary add-ons, then you should have added that silly aftermarket fan that lowers XB360 temps a whopping 3-4C.




By Legionosh on 10/24/2006 5:53:40 PM , Rating: 5
You also forgot that no game "requires" a wireless controller, nor does any game "require" the wi-fi adapter.

$400 will get you a core system, a memory card AND a game or two, depending on the titles.

Of course the premium $400 system is so much of a better buy that it's silly, but we all know that. No need to go down that road..

To get the "same experience", I guess you would "need" the wireless stuff for an apple to apples comparison, but to say it's "needed" for gaming is just silly on Sonys part.

And if their online service is like it was on the PS2 then there's no real comparison, I'm sorry. XBOX Lives service is so much better than the PS2 online service it shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Granted I think the PS3 is a lot of tech for the price, but that's doesn't I can afford it. Maybe at tax time, if I feel it's worthy of my $500..

Heck a corvette is good tech for the money, but most people can't afford a $50,000-$60,000 car.

Simple logic. It tends to work wonders.

(you know is Sony would just shut their mouths for 5 minutes maybe they'd stop getting all of this negative press, but I don't see it happening anytime soon).

My two cents,
Kevin

legionosh@msn.com


RE: Even simple math is beyond Sony
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 5:57:27 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Who do they expect to fool with such logic, the smart shopper that knows better, or the impulse buyer/desperate parent that will pay any price to get what they think they want?


They're banking on the desperate parent. Thats the main people who'll be buying the first shipment of PS3s. Most of them will be bought by people who are going to turn around and sell them on ebay. The people paying the $1000-2000 for them on ebay are parents who don't know how to say know to their kids.

There's plenty of stupid people in this world that are going to snatch them up for 2, 3, 4, maybe 5x the retail cost on ebay.


By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 5:59:26 PM , Rating: 2
Oops. "say no"


RE: Even simple math is beyond Sony
By fumar on 10/25/2006 12:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the rabid Sony fan-boy. They will do ANYTHING to get their hands on a PS3. Although fan-boys do fall under the category of "stupid people"...


A True Comparison
By Sunday Ironfoot on 10/24/2006 3:41:45 PM , Rating: 1
PS3 from eBay = $1000
Xbox360 from the shops = $400

There, I rest my case :-)




RE: A True Comparison
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: A True Comparison
By DigitalFreak on 10/24/06, Rating: 0
RE: A True Comparison
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: A True Comparison
By dwalton on 10/24/2006 5:37:09 PM , Rating: 3
The hostility comes from the fact the article is about a bogus sales fact sheet intended for consumers this christmas not last christmas.

How about adding this to the new Sony's sales sheet.

Xbox 360 Pre from Ebay last christmas...$1000.00
HD-DVD...$199.00
Total...$1199.00

I guess that would be totally appropiate for you wouldn't it. Thats just as asinine as this

The total cost of PS3 plus hd-dvd capabilities

PS3...$599.00
HD-DVD Player...$500.00
Total Cost...$1099.00


RE: A True Comparison
By sxr7171 on 10/24/2006 7:54:13 PM , Rating: 2
Few weeks in your dreams. People won't be able to walk into a store and just buy one off the shelf until at least March.


RE: A True Comparison
By Thmstec on 10/24/2006 8:50:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think he was being a little humorous...the web is not a place for those whose feelings are so easily hurt.


RE: A True Comparison
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 6:00:52 PM , Rating: 2
You think PS3s aren't going to do the same thing? Hell, they'll probably go higher.


RE: A True Comparison
By fumar on 10/25/2006 12:53:59 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah really. Theres much more demand for PS3 than there was for Xbox360 because of the huge market that PS2 carved out.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD won't be practical formats for movies until the FCC eliminates SD broadcasts, which I believe is in 2009.


RE: A True Comparison
By geeg on 10/24/2006 4:15:55 PM , Rating: 2
from some online shops with coupons you can buy an xbox360 premium for $350...


The Price Of Entry Matters..
By ViperROhb34 on 10/24/2006 5:08:31 PM , Rating: 5
This thread is pretty dead to me.

I know 4 people not including myself who bought 360's..
and out of the 5 of us.. 3 of us barely afforded the 360..

The price of entry is just low enough for some to get into and upgrade later. Two of us bought premium consoles. the other 3 bought 299 consoles..

And by the way.. only 2 out of 5 of us plan on getting the HD-DVD player immediately.. So 3 of us may never by the add-on which makes Sony whole point Moot.. because there are alot of people who wont buy the addon..

One of the 5 of us.. was a 15yr .. whose mom is a single parent family.. she has 3 kids.. the 15yr older traded in alot of PS2 games and worked lawn jobs to buy his Xbox360.. He doesnt plan on getting the HD-DVD player because he doesnt have an HD-TV .. so even bluray doesnt matter..

To most Americans right now.. BLuray and HD-DVD just dont matter alot.. thats a reality..





RE: The Price Of Entry Matters..
By encryptkeeper on 10/24/2006 5:57:27 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. BluRay and HD don't matter right now. Hollywood isn't jumping behind either format. The reason there is such a rush to get a PS3 is to resell it to make money.


RE: The Price Of Entry Matters..
By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 9:36:24 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, and it's important to note that there's a reason no one's really jumping behind it... because there isn't a real need for it. I mean, you go back 5 years to DVD vs VHS, and people saw and were wow'd at the differences. It not only offered better quality video, it offered easier navigation, extras (making of's, behind the scenes, etc), easier storage, higher longevity (especially when considering recordables). Just as a note, yes some VHS movies did come with extras.. I remember my BttF trilogy came with an extra tape that had a bunch of goodies on it, but that's an extra tape :/.

What does Blu-Ray or HD-DVD offer us that we don't have? More storage. If DVD had the room, you could put higher resolution video on it too, but it simply doesn't have the room in most cases. So, it offers something that is taken advantage of by something that only a small percentage (I think it's 15%?) of the population can actually use.

I think the consumers realize it as well as most manufacturers... it's just not worth it at this point. Maybe when we all have 30+" HDTV flat-panels and the players are cheaper (kind of like how DVD players came down to a manageable price eventually), then you'll see a shift.


It's a games console
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 4:28:43 PM , Rating: 3
First and foremost. To play games, Xbox 360 premium = $399. PS3 = $499.

Xbox 360 wins.

If you care about Blu-ray, sure the PS3 is a nice deal. However the US manufacturers announcement that they're supporting HD-DVD is yet one more blow to Blu-ray. So I don't see it as becoming the dominant format for movies and slowly becoming a data backup format.

Now the PS3 as a Linux box to run a front end for Myth TV as someone else previously mentioned in another thread, that intrigues me. But $600 for a games console? No. I plan to eventually get all three systems. But I'll wait for the 65nm Xbox360 CPU and a price drop on the PS3. So that leaves me getting the Wii this holiday season assuming Super Smash Bros comes out (not sure on the release date).





RE: It's a games console
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 4:29:49 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry. Meant $500 not $600.


RE: It's a games console
By Visual on 10/25/2006 3:57:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
However the US manufacturers announcement that they're supporting HD-DVD is yet one more blow to Blu-ray.

What? You're on pills, right?
Oh, you mean Toshiba and... well... um... Toshiba? Oh wait that's a Japanese manufacturer. Same as Sanyo, with the difference that they only talked and didn't actually manufacture anything HDDVD. Come to think of it, even their talk was so long ago they probably had forgotten already.
So who did you mean? RCA, with their rebadged Toshiba? You call that "manufacturing"?
Face it, toshiba is the only hddvd manufacturer yet. Actually, even in their systems the hddvd drive itself wasn't made by them but by NEC, which is now partnering with Sony and announced they won't be making any more HDDVD drives. Everyone is behind bluray now.

Back on the original topic though - xbox fans got one thing right - the 360 is cheaper, and will be so for quite a while, hands down, no matter what crappy comparison charts anyone pulls out. Especially while the PS3 supply is limited in the couple months left of this year, and likely Q1 next year too, inflating its price even more.
Once the initial launch is over and more units are available, it'd be no surprise if the PS3 gets cheaper, comparable to the 360.

"Xbox 360 wins", you got that right. Its just because of the significant head start it got, and is quite natural. That doesn't stop Sony from successfully selling all units they manage to produce though. Just too bad for them they couldn't start it earlier and in better volume.


XBOX Live vs Playstation Online
By Aikouka on 10/24/2006 3:19:28 PM , Rating: 2
It's very hard to debate the two online services, because no game publisher has announced whether or not they will charge money for play on the servers. Also, if there is no charge, what will the quality be like?

I know one thing, if I had to choose paying $60 a year for a years worth of XBOX Live (which I did pay and that's the premium yearly package with the headphones and points) and $1 a game for 5 games for 12 months. I think it's really just easier to pay for one overall service rather than so many little services. Note that I specifically made the figures add up to the same amount, they are not by any means validated figures/payment models.




RE: XBOX Live vs Playstation Online
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2006 5:53:01 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly. Sony pulled the same shit with the Xbox vs PS2 concerning online play. "Ours is free...it doesn't do anything....but its free." Xbox Live is a great integrated online component to the Xbox 360. Sure it costs money to play games, but if you just want to spend points and buy downloads, you don't have to pay anything. Is it unreasonable for Microsoft and the games studios to want a little money for the massive bandwidth people use in all the Xbox Live games that go on? You're getting access to play every single game that has an online multiplayer component for one single fee. Thats worlds better than any MMO. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even use it.

And while Sony's service offers the possibility of games developers letting people play for free, how good will it be? Any game that really is meant to be played online, will be charged for. Sure, it'll be better than the PS2, but you'll have different subscription fees for each game again. The only difference is now it'll be handled through Sony and you'll have to buy stupid points to pay for it. At least to play the games, Microsoft says how much they want per month up front. In the end, the Sony system could end up being more expensive than Xbox Live depending on how many games you want to play that are charged for.


RE: XBOX Live vs Playstation Online
By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 9:39:22 AM , Rating: 1
Just to make a correction to something you wrote, Sony doesn't have points in Playstation Online. They announced a couple weeks ago that they're using standard dollar amounts versus a point system that the XBOX 360 and Wii will use.


Just a question that I have for Dailytech.
By daftrok on 10/24/2006 4:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
Out of curiousity, IGN was told that there would be no DVD upscaling for the ps3. However, a few months back, the UK came out with something I believed was called xplorer, which was a CD that saved onto the memory card and allowed the ps2 to upscale DVDs via component to 480p or 720p and also upscale games as well (beyond 480p). It worked pretty well (according to IGN) but never came to the states (yet).

I believe that Dailytech is a bit more reliable when it comes to information when compared to IGN, so could you confirm whether or not DVDs can be upscaled on the ps3 and any information you have regarding xplorer (if thats even the correct name) and the specifications of upscaling DVDs on the 360?

Thanks




RE: Just a question that I have for Dailytech.
By Marcus Yam on 10/25/2006 2:47:21 AM , Rating: 2
Good question. We all know that 1080p will be unlocked via an update, but it'll be analog only... which puts huge limitations on the HD-DVD movie add-on.

You bring up good points and we'll try to answer them in a future article.


By JNo on 10/25/2006 7:17:11 AM , Rating: 2
why huge limitations?

I understand digital is preferable but decent quality analogue (component, vga) really aren't that far off, certainly not disastrous (have xbox on monster component to 720p panny ae700 projector so can confirm barely distinguishable from digital)


HDMI Cable
By deeznuts on 10/24/06, Rating: 0
RE: HDMI Cable
By Legionosh on 10/24/2006 5:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
HDMI cables are one thing. Sure they can be had cheap. Easy enough.

But the real issue is how many people own TVs capable of HDMI AND 1080p?

I can imagine it's a VERY small and minute number at best. Sure these days Wal-mart has a 26" LCD HDTV W/HDMI for $640 or so, which is a pretty good deal..

..but it is only 720p, as is the TV I bought at tax time (but sadly no HDMI, which I would've been more knowledgable about HDMI at tax time when I bought my TV..oh well)

Most americans don't have a 1080p TV, and I am sure worldwide the numbers aren't much higher. While it would be a nice feature, at this point it really isn't a factor.

The there is the issue of the the 1.1 and 1.3 HDMI version conflict, which has been discussed already several times. Which will play a HUGE factor once the copyright protected (DRM?) Blu-Ray HD movies hit the scene.

The way I understand it, the PS3 uses 1.1 and the TVs use 1.3, so the copyright protection will not be able to be turned off (via HDMI), meaning the Blu-Ray movies won't be able to be watched in 1080p.

Which totally makes Sonys idea of HD Movie copyright protection basically and simply retarded..

..at least in my book. Who is the genius that came up with that one? That's what I'd like to know.

Anyway that's my two cents,
kevin

legionosh@msn.com


RE: HDMI Cable
By michal1980 on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: HDMI Cable
By whymeintrouble on 10/24/2006 9:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
You won't have to worry about HDCP considering that the 360 doesn't have a digital vid connection. the analog Component will show high def with whatever the max the TV will output via that connection.


RE: HDMI Cable
By Legionosh on 10/25/2006 12:49:15 PM , Rating: 2
You know there's no need to be so defensive. I made an error and I will accept and admit that. Too bad you are such a fanboy that you took it personally.

(If you sounded like anymore of a fanboy it will be silly, but at least you're one of the few who at least has some knowledge behind his ramblings. Too bad you're such a blatant jerk)

A) I got the 1.3 and 1.1 reversed. A simple enough mistake.I make mistakes and am man enough to admit it when I do.

B) While I AM aware that most new standards ARE backwards compatible, MORE OFTEN than not the OLD standards are NOT forwards compatible, hence my possible confusion. 99% of the time older technologies are NOT forwards compatible with newer standards. Usually the newer standards are downgraded to the olders standard performance limitations. Frankly I don't know of a situation where the opposite applies...

C) I am not fond of being called ignorant. Misinformed? Sure, a common enough mistake for anyone. But to simply and blatantly call me ignorant just to make your head that much bigger than it is is uncalled for. More fuel for your fanboy fire I take it.

D) I never said HD-DVD DIDN'T have HDCP protection, but there is nowhere near as a big a fuss about it in the HD-DVD camp as there is in the Blu-Ray camp. I am fully aware that the 360 has no HDMI and will therefore be in trouble if and when HDCP turns mainstream. But that would make ALL the people who own HDTVs without HDMI VERY angry, myself included.

E) I am aware that the PS3 will play HDCP movies. I never said it wouldn't. I DID say I was under the impression that there would be a problem with HDCP due to the HDMI version difference. Maybe I was misinformed?

F) I am well aware of the 1080p hype and it's viewing limitations, but try telling that to Sony. Seems to be all they can talk about these days.

G) Lies? Well apparently you saw fit to only correct me on some things (seemingly only the things that offended your fanboy side), but you left other things alone. So apparently it wasn't all lies.

Actually looking back it was only one mistake. The whole HDMI 1.3, 1.1 issue. And only on that I said that the PS3 had 1.1, when it has 1.3. (well that and I confused DRM with HDCP, my mistake on that one)

While it is fully backwards compatible (as are most new standards, as I stated earlier) that doesn't mean 1.1 or 1.2 are forwards compatible. Any benefits that 1.3 brings may or may not be lost. I am apparently not as well versed in HDMI as you are, but I am a fairly knowledgeable person overall.

So if 1.3 is a requirement for HDCP (hypothetically, again I don't know and this is an assumption) wouldn't that cause an issue since it will be delegated to 1.1 or 1.2 version standards?

Maybe it's not as issue at all, but it is food for thought.

Also don't get too full of yourself. Just because someone may be less informed than you doesn't make them a "noob" or ignorant. My basic idea was a sound one, but if it was wrong then I made a mistake due to being misinformed.

Lastly I am well aware that HDTVs are being introduced into more and more homes (again I never said the opposite, actually I did say how inexpensive they are at Wal-Mart), I DID say that I am pretty sure there are quite a few owners now who had HDTVs without HDMI. That is going to be cause for concern. There is a big difference between buying a $200 TV and a $2000 TV. The $200 one can be moved to the kids room, easy enough.

But to spend $2000 on a nice TV, buy a new HD movie player and then come to find out that the new HDCP protected movie you just bought won't play because your TV is (only) 2 years old and has no HDMI is bound to make some people mad.

This may be a rare case but it bound to happen.

And only if HDCP is turned on by the studios. But these days seemingly more and more things are becoming copyright protected so it may only be a matter of time.

Again my apologies for my being misinformed. But spreading lies? I think not.

Kevin

legionosh@msn.com







By ToeCutter on 10/24/2006 6:04:50 PM , Rating: 3
Folks, unless you're one of the 400,000 people lucky enough to snag a pre-order (or, one of the feeble idiots both willing and able to spend over a grand on a PS3 off eBay), then you're simply not going to have one until March, probably April, of next year.

At which time MS will drop $100 off the XBox 360 and this entire discussion will be irrelevent.

YAWN.

I'm taking a nap, this PS3 happy-crappy is SOOOO played....




By JNo on 10/25/2006 7:21:06 AM , Rating: 2
EXACTLY - comparing an unreleased PS3 price to a current 360 price is IRRELEVANT. The only reason 360 price is up their is cos they are the ONLY next gen console you can buy RIGHT NOW!! Christ when PS3 is released, just watch MS cut prices to win market share/make Sony feel the pain... they'll be pissing themselves at Sony's self propaganda then...

PS am not a fanboy, just stating the obvious


Holy red comments batman.
By Korvon on 10/24/2006 6:24:32 PM , Rating: 3
I think this is the most 0's and -1's I have seen on any post.




RE: Holy red comments batman.
By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 9:49:22 AM , Rating: 2
I think I've seen worse ;).

People tend to get really, really heated in these video game debates. I think the only other debates that are just as bad are ATi vs nVidia and Intel vs AMD. Although, it seems Intel vs AMD got a lot better when Conroe came out. Also, now that ATi technically doesn't exist anymore and AMD is talking about their CPU/GPU... will it now be nVidia vs AMD vs Intel... I don't think DailyTech could handle so much nerd rage in one thread ;).

This thread actually marks my first -1 too :P. I felt so sullen at the fact that people can't take a harmless warez joke. I mean, I don't think I can consider myself a fanboy of any system, especially when I own an XBOX 360 and I'm sitting here typing while listening to MP3s on my PSP (which other than the fact that Sony chose its proprietary and expensive MediaStick format for, I like my PSP for music. Unlike my sister's 1 month old iPod, my PSP still works ). I've owned more Nintendo consoles than I would care to admit as well :x.

Watch some meanie make this post my second hehe :P.


pricing
By rqle on 10/24/2006 3:36:22 PM , Rating: 2
that like pricing a mid size car all the way up to a BMW M series price range and say you can either by a BMW or the other car? Rims $3000, Engine $10k, L-Seat $4000, Nav. $3000, blah




RE: pricing
By ViperROhb34 on 10/24/2006 5:35:36 PM , Rating: 2
And yet most of us buy the "other" .. not the BMW, fortunately for BMW they dont lose the most money on their hardware this round as Sony does and they don't have to make money off games..


XB360 is also a media extender
By finalfan on 10/24/2006 6:12:10 PM , Rating: 2
XBOX 360 can stream your media center content to your TV with no additional cost. I guess there is no way PS3 can do the same thing.
Besides, when there is enough HD media on the market, the HD-DVD drive add-on will be less than 100. Why get one when it's useless?




RE: XB360 is also a media extender
By mforce on 10/24/2006 7:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
Well you gess wrong. Sony can add that feature later if it doesn't have it( I really don't know). The thing is the PS 3 runs Linux and ,unlike MS, Sony doesn't have such a big PC business it need to protect ( think Windows and Office here ) , it sells mainly laptops from what I know ( oh and let's not forget their batteries ) .
Linux in case you didn't know can do pretty much everything including streaming , playing all kinds of media , has Open Office , Firefox .... . Yes it's not quite Windows or OS X but for some people it's OK and might even double as a second PC ( I doubt anyone will have just the PS 3 and not one other PC ) .


this is what sony wants
By baseball43v3r on 10/24/2006 9:36:55 PM , Rating: 3
if you guys havent noticed, this is exactly what sony wants. it wants people to compare the xbox360 to the ps3. this is more of a continuation of their press conference last week where they said the xbox 360 was overrated. they want people to compare the two products so that maybe some will look at the ps3 and be all "oh it does so much more!" (in a liberal sense). i'm not advocating for or against any game system, i'm just trying to point out blatantly what sony is doing. you are only fueling the fire by responding to their marketing.




Still not getting a PS3
By DEredita on 10/24/2006 4:47:48 PM , Rating: 2

There is no way in hell I am paying $500+ on a video game system. Not happening. A $250 price tag is easier to digest - so I'll be getting a Nintendo Wii. If I had $500 - $600 to burn, I would get myself a Mac Mini instead. I have no interest in a over-hyped, over-priced, super-sized gaming console.




All it adds up to.
By Clauzii on 10/24/2006 6:32:59 PM , Rating: 2
Is that the price is roughly the same for PS3 vs 360 for a system with the same capabilties.




Lets look at a year from now
By IMPoor on 10/24/2006 6:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
I want good games, next gen graphics, and to be able to play my friends online. So far the 360 has delivered that to me for a cheaper base price. if the ps3 comes out and is the best GAMING machine ever I will buy it. These are GAMING devices first. F%$* the HD-DVD and BR drive crap. Its not needed to meet my and 90% of the gamers needs. Same with the linux or media center crap.

I would say by the next holiday season (dec07) you will be able to get a superior standalone blu-ray, HD-DVD, or hybrid player for $200-300. This is a much smarter idea if you want HD movies and are not rich. The DVD9 is enough for games. Plus you can always include 2 DVDs for cheaper than one Blu-Ray disc. For data needs I buy blank DVD5 discs because I can get them much cheaper than DVD9 even though I have a dual layer burner. I suspect I am not alone.




Sony has value now
By Sharky974 on 10/24/2006 6:58:26 PM , Rating: 2
But someday soon Blu-Ray/HDDVD players are going to be $29, like DVD players. Lets run the price comparison then, haha!

Hell, the Toshiba player is already down to like $338 on pricegrabber. That still cant beat the Xbox add on $199 yet, though.

Sony's right, they've got more crap. The issue is whether it's "crap you need".

I just cant believe Sony didn't include a $10 HDMI cable in their $600 box, though. That's just absurd.

You know, Sony could have gone with a G80 and DVD drive in PS3. Then, for the same $600 or less, their would have been no question would they beat 360. Instead, they're trying to corner the high def market. But now, there is a question whether they will beat 360, because they aren't markedly more powerful. Bit of a risky gambit..




Dailytech bias
By TheDoc9 on 10/25/2006 11:39:01 AM , Rating: 2
Obviously we know where daily tech sits in the console wars.

1) if you buy the premium for $400 which includes the HD and controller there is a $50 difference, not $150.

2) HDMI cables can be had on the web for $20, and they are just as good as the rip-offs you buy at BB for $150. Dailytech would point this out if they didn’t have an agenda


Lastly, I sent in a story several days ago about the strong possibility of BluRay drives being sold for $400 by Christmas. Strangely DT and other gamer websites haven’t picked this story up and in fact have ignored it. Google it to see for yourself.




YAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN...
By mNag on 10/24/06, Rating: 0
Looks familiar?!
By daftrok on 10/24/06, Rating: -1
By Aikouka on 10/24/2006 3:34:27 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know about you, Michael1980, but sure as hell I would. Not only would I enjoy the lower price more, the fact that they wouldn't be using a blue diode would theoretically raise the amount of PS3s that would have been produced (since the blue diode was the main production problem and then the Cell processors).

At this point, it would've been a win-win situation for Sony to do that :).


By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 11:00:14 AM , Rating: 2
So? I really don't see what your point is other than trying to divert the subtopic. We're not arguing XBOX 360 availability issues here; we're discussing that if the PS3 didn't offer Blu-Ray that it may have more consoles available at launch. It's a counterfactual argument that can never be proven, but it's something to consider.

The launch of the XBOX 360 is irrelevant in this discussion as I never even cited the XBOX 360 or its launch in my comment. Also, just because the XBOX 360 was in shorter supply at launch doesn't necessarily mean the PS3 automatically would be if it didn't have Blu-Ray.


By therealnickdanger on 10/24/2006 4:27:59 PM , Rating: 5
So far, the arguments regarding DVD9 being a mainstay for games for many years to come have been beaten to a proverbial death with a proverbial stick. DVD9 will suffice for quite a while. The next logical progression will be to download games to your HDD directly via Steam-esque services.

Daftrok, the problem(s) with your argument, as before, is that you insist on comparing things which are of no consequence to gaming. Sure, it's nice that the base PS3 comes with HDD, Wi-Fi, and BR, but none of those are a necessity for gaming on the 360 or Wii, so those are added frills that only serve to raise the cost of the PS3 and keep it out of reach for many gamers. I would argue (if we really want to use common sense) that the only fair comparison would be if the PS3 was $299 as well. Then, and only then, can you truly make a fuss about all the extras the PS3 has, since it wouldn't cost extra to get them!


By Aikouka on 10/25/2006 11:10:03 AM , Rating: 2
Use does not infer necessity.

Do not cite that Resistance: Fall of Man article unless you can provide me with a recursive directory listing with file sizes to show necessity.

CDs and DVDs already showed a need before the medium hit the mainstream. I remember having multiple floppy disks to install games on my computer back in the day. Windows 3.11 was what... 5 floppies? Albeit that's only about 7MB of data, that's still 5 floppies that could be condensed into one CD that's cheaper to manufacture.

DVDs showed a use when games started shipping on multiple CDs. I still have PC games that come to me in a CD form (and they end up encompassing 4-5 CDs). Fortunately for some games, I can create my own DVD installs (WoW being one of them) and that's a handy feature.

So, if you look at the progression, we pretty much have 100% convergence to CDs and I'd say maybe 40-50% convergence to DVDs for PC games. Games still come out with PC-CD and PC-DVD formats for the same game (I believe that's the terms they use on the boxes).


"Nowadays you can buy a CPU cheaper than the CPU fan." -- Unnamed AMD executive

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