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Graphics maker stable at 80nm, remains mum on 65nm, touts 45nm

DigiTimes reports ATI is expecting to produce 45nm products at TSMC in 2008. There’s no mention as to what products will make the transition to the 45nm fabrication first, though it wouldn’t be too surprising to see ATI manufacturer RD790 on a 45nm process.

TSMC released details earlier this year on its 45nm process, revealing some of the challenges faced with the shrink. The 2008 timeframe set by ATI falls in-line with AMD's plans to move to 45nm for its processors, though Intel may reach the 45nm mark first by 2007.

At a press conference last week, ATI confirmed that the yields from the 80nm process are stable, and plans to move the rest of its graphics lineup over to 80nm in the first half of 2007.

ATI currently produces much of its product line on the 90nm process. One of the benefits of moving from 90nm to 80nm is that production costs are reduced by 10-15%, according to ATI. The reduction in cost comes from the fact that more chips can be produced at 80nm than 90nm on a single 300mm wafer.

Currently, ATI only has one 80nm GPU—the Radeon X1950 Pro. A second 80nm product in the form of the RV560 Radeon X1650XT is expected to arrive before the end of the month. 

ATI may see even larger benefits when moving to 45nm, as power requirements and heat generation will be reduced, leading to greater headroom for performance.



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Yeah right
By xNIBx on 10/23/06, Rating: 0
RE: Yeah right
By AmbroseAthan on 10/23/2006 9:30:50 AM , Rating: 2
They are reporting what TSMC and ATI are saying...

For more from TSMC, read: http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800418591_480200_83f3f...


RE: Yeah right
By Dactyl on 10/23/2006 7:24:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They are reporting what TSMC and ATI are saying...

For more from TSMC, read: ...
Are you joking?

ATi and AMD never reported or suggested that they would use 45nm in a chipset.

Your link goes to a press release that doesn't discuss chipsets at all.

quote:
it wouldn’t be too surprising to see ATI manufacturer RD790 on a 45nm process.
This is the line from the THG article. The bold part is also a link. Click on it (in the article) and you'll see the link provides zero support for the premise that the RD790 chipset will be made on 45nm.

The visible part of a link is a claim; what's on the other side of the link is supposed to support that claim. This is very basic and failing at it is unimpressive.

==============

Computer companies just don't use bleeding-edge processes in their chipsets! It just doesn't happen. It's not necessary and it doesn't make any economic sense. It would be a waste of 45nm wafer capacity (they can only do so many wafers at a time) and it would be a waste of time to have engineers designing 45nm chipsets. Those engineers are needed for the 45nm CPU design.

It would in fact be very surprising if it did happen. For THG to say anything else is stupid.


RE: Yeah right
By Dactyl on 10/24/2006 12:00:31 AM , Rating: 2
Further, the only reason to use an advanced process like 45nm or 65nm for a chipset would be to save power .

It's vaguely conceivable they might use it for a mobile chipset, but not for a beast like RD790. There's no point in saving a watt in the chipset underneath two 8800s in SLI. In other words: it would still be surprising if they used it in a mobile chipset, but it wouldn't be entirely retarded.


RE: Yeah right
By IntelUser2000 on 10/23/06, Rating: 0
RE: Yeah right
By IntelUser2000 on 10/23/2006 9:54:21 AM , Rating: 3
Hmm. 45nm production!=45nm product production. It'll take a year at least.


RE: Yeah right
By cnimativ on 10/23/2006 11:34:58 AM , Rating: 2
TSMC is ahead of AMD for 65nm and 300mm wafers, and should be ahead of AMD for 45nm...


RE: Yeah right
By sxr7171 on 10/23/06, Rating: 0
RE: Yeah right
By ZmaxDP on 10/23/2006 1:21:49 PM , Rating: 4
It's ok, they're only trying to be fair because it obviously isn't required for a lot of us readers as well. Though, one might point out that if you're so dissatisfied with the quality that you could always (gasp) not read this site and find another source for news.



Headline
By SocrPlyr on 10/23/2006 9:33:25 AM , Rating: 3
i normally allow a lot of room in the use of headlines, but this one is just obnoxiously false. ati doesn't produce anything at a fab. they really don't have much of a say other than, please use your best process at a given time. now a more appropriate headline would have been "ATI GPUs to get 45nm die shrink in 2008." not a very good headline, but a much more accurate one.




RE: Headline
By oTAL (blog) on 10/24/2006 9:09:21 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, when you design the integrated circuits you must do so for a given technology, aand using the available tools and "library".
It's something of a co-evolution similar to the hardware/software thing... one thing tens to be worthless without the other.


RE: Headline
By Dactyl on 10/24/2006 4:07:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
ATI GPUs to get 45nm die shrink in 2008
Wrong. Moving to 45nm is not a die shrink.

A die shrink implies that the design (layout of the gates) is the same, just smaller.

When you move to smaller geometries, the design rules change. Some things that were legal at 65nm are illegal at 45nm.
quote:
they really don't have much of a say other than, please use your best process at a given time
Wrong. ATi has to come up with valid designs before they can be manufactured. The valid design is called a "tape-out" and it's a really big deal.

Further, a die shrink only tells you that a working design has been completed. It doesn't imply that the GPUs will actually be rolling off the production lines ready to be sold.


X1650XT
By BernardP on 10/23/2006 10:12:34 AM , Rating: 2
So the X1650XT is (again) due for the end of the month. It has already been pushed back a couple of times. I am anxious to see the performance of this midrange card, and of the competing GeForce 7650GS, which also seems to be slipping back. They are made in the same factory, if I am not mistaken. Maybe TSMC is having more problems than expected with the 80nm process.




RE: X1650XT
By Aikouka on 10/23/2006 1:46:10 PM , Rating: 2
Or could nVidia simply be focusing more on G80 rather than manufacturing another "old tech" part. I'm not a finance expert so I can't say which would make more money in the long run, but I'd put my bet on the G80 being more lucritive to focus manufacturing resources on.


RE: X1650XT
By Mojo the Monkey on 10/23/2006 3:54:41 PM , Rating: 2
You'd be surprised regarding how much of ATI or NVIDIA's gfx card revenue comes from the low/midrange sector. The flagship cards tend to gain the notoriety, and then people go out and get a board that they can afford. Its almost like marketing.

There are some interesting statistics out there, I recall seeing some recently through steam (and these are gamers) showing that the midrange and lowend cards hold a HUGE majority when compared to the top-of-the-line stuff.

It might be deceiving if you didnt know this stuff, because it tends to be the enthusiasts who care to spend that kind of money who read/post on these kinds of sites.


In other News......
By KingofL337 on 10/23/2006 8:56:14 AM , Rating: 3
Probably Soon to Follow

In other news, ATI will be transitioning its entire lineup to SOI. Also, ATI plans to offer 16MB of Z-RAM embedded on the new DX10 parts.




RE: In other News......
By FITCamaro on 10/23/2006 11:36:12 AM , Rating: 1
Actually that wouldn't surprise me considering that they already do that with the Xbox 360 GPU. If they can do it cheap enough then I don't see any reason why they wouldn't release a commercial graphics card with such a configuration. Imagine the pressure that would put on Nvidia to have a card that does free AA (to a certain degree).


RE: In other News......
By FITCamaro on 10/23/2006 11:36:53 AM , Rating: 1
And I'm referring to the embedded RAM not the SOI part.


Smaller and smaller
By Spivonious on 10/23/2006 1:54:04 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't there a point at which these tiny etchings will be too small to fit electrons through?

*nevermind I just did some googling and the "accepted" radius of an electron is 3 femtometers. We have quite a ways to go before that becomes a problem :)





RE: Smaller and smaller
By sdsdv10 on 10/23/2006 4:30:09 PM , Rating: 2
Ah but the etching must be made of some semi-conducting material, i.e. silicon which even a the single atom width is much larger than an electron. The diameter of a single silicon atom is ~0.2-0.4 nanometer, so a connection of only 10 atoms would be ~4 nanometers. At a 45 nanometer process we are starting to get close to the physical limits of potential shrinks using current semi-conductor tech.


What is so special about ATI?
By phatboye on 10/23/2006 2:53:42 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't TMSC make Nvidia GPUs and chipset too? So if ATI was releasing 45nm parts in 2008 wouldn't nvidia have the same ability to release 45nm parts as well?




By kilkennycat on 10/23/2006 4:50:00 PM , Rating: 2
Of course......

Unless Intel offer nVidia access to their 45nm process first. The gorilla is sure to find all sorts of ways to make the chimpanzee uncomfortable. And the chimpanzee has just borrowed a vast quantity of cash to acquire another weakness.


Maybe
By ira176 on 10/23/2006 6:38:30 PM , Rating: 2
AMD Fabs will really produce the 45nm ATI chips and not TSMC.




RE: Maybe
By MrDiSante on 10/23/2006 7:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
Oh right, considering their processors are current on 90 nm they're gonna forego the shrink of their CPU manufacturing process and go straight to GPU! No. AMD hasn't got the budget for this and they're hardpressed enough as it is when trying to compete with Intel in manufacturing process shrinks.


Lower Power\Lower Temps
By PAPutzback on 10/23/2006 8:45:18 AM , Rating: 2
Exciting




The Fruit of the Merge!
By Supa on 10/23/06, Rating: -1
RE: The Fruit of the Merge!
By plimogs on 10/23/2006 8:06:29 AM , Rating: 4
I don't think this has anything much to do with the whole amd+ati deal. Afterall, they don't mention anything about using AMD fab capacity to produce ATI silicon, just that TSMC will me making 45nm tech for ATI in 2008.


RE: The Fruit of the Merge!
By Sunday Ironfoot on 10/23/2006 8:36:05 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah thats what I was thinking, TSMC also make chips for nVidia!


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007














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