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No discs for PS4

When it comes to disc technology in the next-generation console market, Sony is making a Blu-ray drive standard on both the $499 and $599 versions of its PS3, whereas Microsoft has decided to play it safe by using traditional DVD-9 media with its XBOX 360. While many like to point to a “Blu-ray vs HD DVD” battle in the console arena, one must take into account that no XBOX 360 games will use HD DVD media and the HD DVD drive will be an optional, external USB unit aimed at playing back high-definition movies. Microsoft has also stated that it has no plans to offer an XBOX 360 with an integrated HD DVD drive. With that being said, even though Sony's PlayStation 3 has yet to hit store shelves, Sony is already talking about its successor. Sony's Phil Harrison believes that the PlayStation 4 will forgo discs altogether.

With the rising popularity of using an online marketplace to download games, additional game content, demos and movie trailers, many are questioning the need for physical media in the future. “I’d be amazed if the PlayStation 4 has a physical disc drive,” said Harrison to Wired Magazine. While the market may not be quite to the point where a 100% digital distribution model would be feasible for console gamers, it may be ripe for the picking when the PlayStation 4 is released.

Looking at the PS2, it has been on the market for 6 years. Both NVIDIA and Sony have stated that the PS3 will have a shelf life of 10 years -- that pushes us to 2016 for PS4. Perhaps by 2016, large-scale digital distribution of game and movie content and high-speed Internet connections will be at a point where such a model would be feasible for a home console.


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just predicting the future
By PurdueRy on 8/4/2006 2:30:31 PM , Rating: 3
Allow me to make a few predictions:

1. PS4 will come out around 2011...the normal console cycle. Not 10 years from now

2. They will still use a disc drive

C'mon now Sony...lets get realistic. You can't even build a top of the line computer and have it not be outdated in 4-5 years tops. You REALLY expect the PS3 to hold us to 2016?

As for dropping disc drives for downloadable content. Well, it would work but I don't think any company would go solely for a electronic distribution method. Seems the perfect way to invite rampant game pirating(more than now).

But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony decided to release a solid state hard disk in the PS4 just to make it more expensive




RE: just predicting the future
By michal1980 on 8/4/06, Rating: -1
RE: just predicting the future
By KingViper on 8/4/2006 2:50:57 PM , Rating: 1
Yea, real nice comparison.

"Well, Gas has tripled in price, so we should be happy everything else hasn't gone up in price too"

That completly justifies the cost of the PS3 and everything else in the entire universe.

"Well, I was gonna buy *, but I dont know if I can afford ** right now. What? You should be lucky its not ***, buy it before they decide to inflate the price."

* - Any product besides gas
** - The price of that product
*** - ** x 3


By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 2:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the legend. I was getting confused.


RE: just predicting the future
By PurdueRy on 8/4/2006 3:06:09 PM , Rating: 2
That's quite the interesting comparison


RE: just predicting the future
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 2:40:09 PM , Rating: 2
In a closed network for a console, downloadable games will be harder to pirate.


RE: just predicting the future
By Nocturnal on 8/4/2006 10:36:03 PM , Rating: 2
Harder but not unstoppable. There will be people [b]determined[/b] or should I say hellbent on cracking the security on any type of downloadable content and I can only begin to imagine what type of opportunities hackers will have to play with in the future.


RE: just predicting the future
By TheDoc9 on 8/4/2006 4:59:18 PM , Rating: 3
It's just misleading propaganda. What he really means is that the ps4 will be out in 4-6 years, while the ps3 will still see games developed for it for up to 10 years. Much like the Ps1, although there weren't many games developed for it in the end, they just retired it after 10.

And no, there is no way that the infestruture will be available world wide for such a product. These machines will continue to have some form of removable media for at least 20 - 30 years.


By Chernobyl68 on 8/4/2006 6:12:33 PM , Rating: 2
i think the retailers will have a lot to say if they do this. How much of the sales to do you think the PS3 games are, of an average game retailer's income?



RE: just predicting the future
By agent2099 on 8/4/2006 9:46:22 PM , Rating: 2
Well one thing is for sure, there is no way the PS4 is comming out in 2016. No console has that long a lifespan. Unless, of course, Sony gains a monopoly in the market this generation and forces Microsoft and Nintendo out of the console business. THEN you can be assured Sony will milk the PS3 as long as it can.

Knownig that, by say 2011 or 2012, when the PS4 is more likely to come out, there is not a chance the infrastructure will be there to have a console without an optical drive.


By Christopher1 on 8/6/2006 12:39:45 PM , Rating: 1
What about the Atari and the Nintendo Entertainment system? They lasted, in the case of the Atari, for 15 years, and in the case of the NES, 10 years.

Consoles CAN last that long if manufacturers of games are willing to try and push the limits of the machines that they are making their games for. The problem is, that usually the consoles are ALREADY pushed to their limits when the first games come out, because the specifications for the system are known right away.


RE: just predicting the future
By tygrus on 8/6/2006 11:31:35 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, it's crazy for Sony to plan for a 10year wait until PS4. They should have had a PS2.5 as a 2x speed boost using same tech on smaller fab (eg. 90nm vs ? 180nm or 130nm?) about a year ago. Would play old games the same and allow newer titles to aim higher and better compete with early XBOX2. Microsoft could have released a XBOX1.5 using the same 2x CPU with >2x GPU policy and saved a lot of hassel and maintained higher revenue for less R&D. It would keep them closer to the middle/volume market instead of high$$$/early-adopter technology as the CPU&GPU is at time of release-to-manufacturing (take 6m to 12m before meeting global demand and bring cost down). What's wrong with buying two $350 consoles over 8 years verses one $600 console now, that's uses far out of date technology in 4 years time and must wait another 4-6yrs for update to be released.


RE: just predicting the future
By lationheat465 on 11/26/2006 4:05:16 PM , Rating: 2
If the ps4 doesnt have disks then where will we get the games? if we half to get the games off the internet then I think the ps4 wont be a big hit. I think that because some people might not have a computer.that will make the playstation co. loose money

by:lationheat465


no more selling your used games
By Rage187 on 8/4/2006 2:27:28 PM , Rating: 4
looks like Sony will finally have their way and you will not be able to sell your old games.




By shadowzz on 8/4/2006 2:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, not surprised here. They will probably have all purchases via the internet, which is nice and convient -- but you if you don't like the title anymore good luck trying to sell it to babbages.


RE: no more selling your used games
By reboos on 8/4/2006 2:59:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sony will probably supplement discs with a mix of memory stick type media and downloadable content. They will probably make the cost per title less for downloadable content to help influence its acceptance. And HD will be in the terabytes by then so no worry on space issues.


By Decaydence on 8/5/2006 1:39:56 AM , Rating: 4
I highly doubt they will reduce the price of titles simply because there is no physical media; they will keep those savings for themselves. There are two examples that prove my point in play currently. Xbox 360 games are on the same physical media as their xbox counterparts and cost more money. Also, game downloading services for the PC charge the same amount for a game as they would if you purchased it in the store.

Out of all the companies in the world, I highly doubt Sony will be the one to pass the savings of new technologies onto its customers.


RE: no more selling your used games
By tuteja1986 on 8/4/2006 9:28:51 PM , Rating: 2
Ahh , they been talking, all last year and this year on how they are going to have supper cool Virtual Console PS1 games for the PSP but i still haven't seen a software or a plan on how they are going to deliver the content.


By mendocinosummit on 8/4/2006 11:34:58 PM , Rating: 2
It will be hacked and will be distributed via torrents or some sort of firmware for torrents for the PS4 console itself.


By DangerIsGo on 8/5/2006 9:17:16 AM , Rating: 2
Well if they are all downloaded to the PS4, then if you want to sell your PS4 with the games, everything is in one bundle, but if your intention is to keep the unit and sell the games individually, your screwed.


Hard drive space
By dagamer34 on 8/4/2006 2:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
So with each HD game using maybe 30GB (being REAL optomistic here), you'd be able to fit around 7 games on a 250GB HD. Oh, and what's this, you can let a friend borrow the game?

Complete BS. It's comments like these that make me wonder why Sony still exists.




RE: Hard drive space
By dagamer34 on 8/4/2006 2:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
can't*

DT needs an edit function. -__-


RE: Hard drive space
By Rage187 on 8/4/2006 2:52:56 PM , Rating: 3
You do realize by the time this thing comes out we will have 100's of terrabytes on our HDD right? Hell by the time this comes out we will be far beyond moving part storage and probably more along the lines of Yodabytes.


RE: Hard drive space
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 2:54:41 PM , Rating: 2
Harrison is talking around 2016 when 250GB will be in budget pcs and 1TB will be mainstream. Letting friends borrow games means its one less sale for Sony, so why should it promote the concept?


RE: Hard drive space
By OrSin on 8/4/2006 2:56:27 PM , Rating: 2
FIrst HD game are no near 30GB. Most are close to 10. Just bacause the disk is 30 dont mean they will fill it up. Second in 6-10 years a 1TB drive will be $50 or less. Most people with HD tv and moeny to drop a $600 game console also have Broadband. In 6-10 years TV and Phone and Internet will allbe ont eh same line and people will have 50MB pipe or faster to thier homes. I got Fiber to my house now for only $40 a month with 20MB pipe. If the PS4 has a drive with will not be games. Sorry but it will be next to impossible to hack the system to play games. The game will be verified by a central server to play my guess.


RE: Hard drive space
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 3:06:33 PM , Rating: 2
How can you assume that? 5 yrs ago games were 700 MBs because thats the max cds could go. and now a typical install is around 2-4 GBs because most DVD games are released on single layer dvds but some games are released on DVD-9. If either format becomes dominant, developers will use the space given to its fullest.


RE: Hard drive space
By Decaydence on 8/5/2006 1:52:58 AM , Rating: 2
The erroneous assumption on your part is that most games are small enough to fit on a single layer dvd because they must make them that way to fit on the disc. The truth of the matter is that most games are small enough to fit on a single layer dvd because they didn't need anymore than that to create a modern game. DVD-9 games are EXTREMELY rare even amongst PC games that require textures that will look good at resolutions higher than a HDTV will display.

Furthermore, with game engines getting better and better, in-game cutscenes will be scripted in-engine events and not the archaic video cutscenes that are already being phased out, and are also the only things that could possibly justify needing large quantaties of additional space in the next generation. I do, however, expect Sony to use video cutscenes heavily in the titles that they have control over in order to use the inflated game size numbers they will yield in order to try to justify the use of their storage medium in the PS3.


RE: Hard drive space
By fxnick on 8/5/2006 11:51:58 PM , Rating: 2
where are you people getting 30 meg download lines and fiber service??
let me in on this!


newsworthy?
By R Nilla on 8/4/2006 2:55:00 PM , Rating: 2
I like how a casual comment from Phil Harrison regarding online distribution in Wired Magazine was turned into an entire news article on DT about the PS4.

It's not like they were discussing PS4 or Sony's plans for its future, but rather the online distribution of games a la XBOX Live Marketplace. Speculative at best.

I think we have a long way to go before consoles become "disc-less" and even then, I doubt either Microsoft or Sony would want to dumb down their systems by taking away the ability to play other media, such as movies and music (DVDs and CDs).

Of course, they could force you to pay to download these things as well, but who's going to want to pay to download a movie or album that they already have in their DVD collection or on their iPod just so they can use it on their console?

- R. Nilla




RE: newsworthy?
By PT2006 on 8/4/2006 2:59:55 PM , Rating: 2
I know bashing DT is the trendy thing right now, but sorry, this is newsworthy. Phil Harrison is the President of SCE, i don't care if he said the comment while snorting a line of coke off a $300/hour hooker, he still said it and he's privy to information about this kind of thing that you and I and john dvorak aren't.


RE: newsworthy?
By R Nilla on 8/4/2006 3:11:10 PM , Rating: 3
I'm not "bashing" anyone. And I don't appreciate my comment being dismissed as "trendy."

I was amused that one little comment spawned an entire article. I understand why its newsworthy - especially since in that same Wired article Harrison also mentions that online distribution is becoming the new business model. I just think it's a little premature and speculative, but that is the nature of news media.

- R. Nilla


RE: newsworthy?
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 3:00:15 PM , Rating: 2
MS wouldn't mind making the next xbox discless since they're rather you used a MCE to stream to the console and then to the TV. MS would have less to lose than Sony.


RE: newsworthy?
By Guigsy on 8/4/2006 4:00:46 PM , Rating: 2
MS have already said that they see BluRay and HD DVD being the last of the physical media. They said that by the time we run out of capacity on these discs, media will be distributed online. Movies, games and music. There will be no replacement for these discs (except for removable recordable storage, hence holographic discs).

Broadband connections are increasing in speed at an incredible rate. I can see them spewing data as quickly as an optical drive soon, so whether you've bought a disc or you're downloading it on the fly, it isn't going to make a lot of difference. Remember that you can already get HD content from a cable connection in real time; OK, it's not yet 1080p with the latest sound format, but we aren't far off.

Hard drives have slowed down a lot in their quest for capacity recently. They are reaching theoretical limits that were mapped out years ago, and they haven't found many more cheats recently. Why not make EA store all your games in a huge data centre and you can pull them down when you fancy a game.

$5 to buy and then $0.50 an hour. That's a lot of gaming until you hit the expected price of $70 for a PS3 title. If it's a bad game or you complete it in 5 hours, you've saved a fortune. Maybe companies will keep throwing in content to keep you hooked? There are some bonuses to downloadable games.


RE: newsworthy?
By TheDoc9 on 8/4/2006 5:10:27 PM , Rating: 2
The thing is, is that these guys live in their billion dollar homes (that we helped pay for), and are jaded enough to believe that everyone in the world has the resources they do. That and they have an agenda.

Bill says all kinds of things, just because he's sitting on a fat bank doesn't mean I won't be taking his comments with a heaping tablespoon of salt.


bandwidth
By albundee on 8/4/2006 2:45:47 PM , Rating: 2
so how the heck are u supposed to download dvd-sized let alone a blu-ray sized content over dsl or cable?





RE: bandwidth
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 2:49:13 PM , Rating: 2
in 5 to 10 yrs hopefully the broadband infrastructure will be much better than it is now. Everyone should have access to a FIOS type service: 30 Mbps down, 2 Mbps up. Its a beautiful thing.


RE: bandwidth
By AMDfreak on 8/4/2006 3:54:48 PM , Rating: 2
Rocking on 30 down 5 up FIOS now and loving every minute of it! =D


RE: bandwidth
By Araemo on 8/4/2006 4:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
And with 30 down, if sony somehow manages to saturate your connection, and you put up with the slowdown in anything else you're doing, it will still take you 4 hours to download a single, full blu-ray disk's worth of content. I shudder to imagine downloading games that would have required multiple disks, especially if the service becomes popular(Read: overloaded).


RE: bandwidth
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 4:10:48 PM , Rating: 2
you're saying that in 10 yrs my level of service won't change but sony's distribution would. i highly doubt that. i believe the speed of interet would increase dramatically in the next 10 yrs because digital distribution of other media is also happening now.


RE: bandwidth
By kilkennycat on 8/5/2006 12:32:33 AM , Rating: 2
At a fancy price, of course.........
When 30 down and 5 up is $29.95 per month, I'll consider it.
(BTW, Verizon FIOS passes my front door, and I am still very happily on Verizon DSL at $29.95 plus taxes. FIOS has some significant bandwidth teething problems in our area, while my DSL is rock-solid at 3Mb down and 768k up.)


...
By AppaYipYip on 8/4/2006 2:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
I wish Sony would focus on ONE PRODUCT and do it well. They seem to spread themselves too thin.

I still can't believe they are expecting people to purchase PS3's at rediculous prices with faulty Cell processors.




RE: ...
By albundee on 8/4/2006 3:19:22 PM , Rating: 2
faulty Cell Processors?

i didnt know you already had a PS3 *rolls eyes*


RE: ...
By AppaYipYip on 8/4/2006 3:29:27 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, how about you do a quick search on DT and read the article about the Cell processor yeilds. Sony stated they would gladly sell PS3's with Cell processors with faulty cores.

Sony said PS3's with only 6 working cores would be fine and they did not mind if Cell processors failed in the field. They would just replace them.

That's pretty pathetic if you ask me.


RE: ...
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 4:14:30 PM , Rating: 2
Sony doesn't need a fully working Cell for the PS3. They need only 7 cores. The article in DT stated that there is very low yields in full 8-core Cell processor. Nothing about yields on less than 8 cores.


RE: ...
By TheDoc9 on 8/4/2006 5:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
Almost nothing in your post (AppaYipYip) is true sir. Please sell your agenda somewhere esle, we're not buying.


Who needs a drive
By gbed on 8/4/2006 6:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
There's already a driveless console.....The Phantom and we all know how well that worked out :)

If you need an introduction ....

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTEy




RE: Who needs a drive
By nerdye on 8/4/2006 11:44:52 PM , Rating: 2
That is true, the word Phantom will always be synonymous with the word "crap" due to the pc-console hybrid that never was, and of course the phantom menace, one attack is on the mysterious console with its stock market controversy and the second attact is at such an easy target, jar jar binks.

Personally I feal that downloads on a console are very useful, xbox1 had updates and new maps for several games, that was a nice bonus to belong to xbox live for an annual fee. I don't like xobx 360's method of having to buy special items and such, I do love my Oblivion so, but you want me to pay a few dollars for fricken horse armor?

I like buying games and saving all the boxes and owning a collection, thats me. Downloading a game where you never have the media or game guide, box, and artwork seems so sterile to me. Perhpas the future may change my mind but as of now I like physical media distribution of my games.


RE: Who needs a drive
By nerdye on 8/5/2006 12:38:38 AM , Rating: 2
You are certainly right about $ony running their mouths with rediculous quotes, yet we all love some of their products atleast, bought a playstation in the past 10 years anybody? Blu-Ray already feals obsolite to me (despite the current limitations) due to the capacity of holographic storage. I guess dvd9's were over 10 times bigger than 700mb cd's, and blue ray double layer (which isn't even out yet) is only roughly 5.5 times bigger than dvd-9's (at 50gb, yet holographic storage has 10 times the capacity of a dvd9 in its smallest capacity (as 300gb discs have been mentioned to be released after the first 100gb discs that "supposedly will be released soon"). Sorry to turn this into a format war. I still will get a ps3 eventually (when the price drops) even if its media was on cardboard.


RE: Who needs a drive
By RMTimeKill on 8/7/2006 9:40:16 AM , Rating: 2
Never bought a Sucky err $ony product...ever... oh wait... there was that one universal remote that was a return so they had it marked down to $2.00, works ok for my kids TV but still doesnt funtion well... Beyond that, I do agree, Blu-Ray, just like all of $ony's past media attempts (SACD and BETA anyone?) will more then likely be limited to $ony and then flop out... $ony's problem is that they seem to always think they are the best (as do their loyal <and stupid> customers) and to good to share formats with the rest (Or at least charge WAY to much for it). When working at a local retailer as well as a local TV/audio/appliance repair shop who did all of the local retailers repairs, Sony was about the 3rd most repaired brand out of all brands, right behind RCA and Phillips... You will probably never see a Sony device in my house (less that remote) unless they come up with some thing totaly revolutionary, and this PS3 joke is not that...


Dude this about stupid
By Sharky974 on 8/5/2006 3:14:21 AM , Rating: 2
No Disc Drive in PS4? Yeah fricken right.

Why do supposedly intelligent people like Phil Harrison and websites not notice immediatly the fallacies here?

Okay, how many people in US even have broadband internet? I'd guesstimate maybe something like 60%. There's always going to be a good number of people who it's not important enough for them to spring $40 a month for. There's going to be another big chunk of people that live in the boonies and couldn't get it if they wanted.

So Sony is going to say adios to 40% of the market?

Heck I just looked it up, an estimated 42% of Americans have broadband in March 2006, up from 30% one year earlier. So my 60% was high, although it probably would be low by the time PS4 comes, you're still talking a huge chunk of the market.

Heck I know a guy that has no internet at all, not even dial up. In fact I'm sure there are tons of them. As long as it's an extra $40 a month bill there always will be millions without it.

Next problem: How the hell does Sony plan to stream who-knows-how-big games? Take right now, a DVD game, say 7-9 GB's, wouldn't exactly be fun. I have 4MB cable which I consider pretty fast. I just downloade the Dead Rising demo on Xboxlive, which is ~1GB. It doesn't take forever but it's not quick either. I played a bunch of galaga while waiting and when I checked back my DL was still only 58%. I bet when I go back it'll be disconnected and still not finished. And that's for only 1GB. Now consider Blu-Ray games at 20-50 GB's and up. Let alone PS4 games may be even bigger. The only way I see for easy downloading of these games is if everybody has fiber optic. I wouldn't bank on that being rolled out to a majority in ten years, let alone 5.

We haven't even gotten into costs. Bandwidth aint cheap. Say the Final Fantasy 15 on PS5 comes out in January 2011. Game weighs in at say, 57 GB's. Oh, a few million people simultaneously want to download this as soon as it comes out. Sony's BW bill that month wont be cheap. The internet itself would screech to a halt, let alone Sony's servers.

Give me a break with this, "no disc". Stupid on it's face.




RE: Dude this about stupid
By brshoemak on 8/5/2006 11:29:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Game weighs in at say, 57 GB's. Oh, a few million people simultaneously want to download this as soon as it comes out. Sony's BW bill that month wont be cheap.


they can just distribute games through a Sony proprietory paid bittorrent service ;)

10 million tracker hits for FF15


RE: Dude this about stupid
By R Nilla on 8/5/2006 4:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
Ever heard of Steam? I don't think the streaming of downloads would necessarily be that difficult to implement. They could have it all loaded and ready to go on the launch date and just sent people who've purchased it the activation code.

I doubt that we will be ready for a discless console within the next 5 or 6 years though.

- R. Nilla


RE: Dude this about stupid
By RMTimeKill on 8/7/2006 9:44:43 AM , Rating: 2
There was a poll/census about earlier this year or late last year that said broad band is still only in the low 30%s of peoples home internet still, up some 25% from the previous year, but still no where near 50 or 60%, which is sad... I know people that still dont even HAVE computers/consoles, much less internet! >.< cavemen...


Not feasible to happen
By Lonearchon on 8/4/2006 3:43:32 PM , Rating: 2
Currently Broadband avalblity is not so great in all areas and i don't think phone and cable companys will have complete coverage in the next 4-5 years due the cost. Around this area highest Broadband speeds is 6mbs/368kbs at around 43 when you a customer and around 60 when your not. there are many area in the us were the big company will not go because of cost. Alot of those area will have people who would like to get the high end game console.




RE: Not feasible to happen
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 3:57:35 PM , Rating: 3
Well the people that live in the boonie and have no broadband capability (either wired or wireless) will have to settle for another high end gaming console and not the PS4. Maybe it will be Nintendo since they seem to take technology in baby steps


RE: Not feasible to happen
By michal1980 on 8/4/06, Rating: -1
RE: Not feasible to happen
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 4:05:45 PM , Rating: 1
its not dependant on broadband. But I meant it as it took them forever to have a standard dvd player in their console so maybe their next distribution system might also be "old school".


RE: Not feasible to happen
By piranhaa on 8/5/2006 12:55:47 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm... Not everybody requires their console to WATCH DVDS... Besides, it adds bulk (hence the size of the gamecube), and WILL take away longevity of the actual reader. If you want a DVD player, get a DVD player.


Arent we forgetting flash drives here?
By Soccerman06 on 8/4/2006 3:42:30 PM , Rating: 2
Id think by 2016, flash drives should easily top 16gb (maybe 32) and probably semi-affordable. Is this where the future of sharing games could lie? Probably not but its the only way I think Sony would allow file/game sharing.




RE: Arent we forgetting flash drives here?
By threEchelon on 8/5/2006 5:42:48 PM , Rating: 2
16, 32GB? Samsung can already produce those! By 2016, flash storage capacities will greatly exceed 1TB. Other important storage technologies to consider are holography and nanotechnology.


By Vertigo101 on 8/5/2006 10:25:27 PM , Rating: 2
It's just so much easier to have a harddrive with several times the capacity of even the beefiest flash chip. Why bother with flash? Power? Size? Read speed? None of those are strong enough points to overpower the strenghts of hard-drives, IMHO.


So much for Blu-Ray
By AbelIAN on 8/4/2006 11:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
It's a good thing that consumers don't pay any attention to Sony's collective mouth. Otherwise, who would buy into Blu-Ray when it will be obsolete in ~7 years?




RE: So much for Blu-Ray
By nerdye on 8/5/2006 12:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
You are certainly right about $ony running their mouths with rediculous quotes, yet we all love some of their products atleast, bought a playstation in the past 10 years anybody? Blu-Ray already feals obsolite to me (despite the current limitations) due to the capacity of holographic storage. I guess dvd9's were over 10 times bigger than 700mb cd's, and blue ray double layer (which isn't even out yet) is only roughly 5.5 times bigger than dvd-9's (at 50gb, yet holographic storage has 10 times the capacity of a dvd9 in its smallest capacity (as 300gb discs have been mentioned to be released after the first 100gb discs that "supposedly will be released soon"). Sorry to turn this into a format war. I still will get a ps3 eventually (when the price drops) even if its media was on cardboard.


RE: So much for Blu-Ray
By adam92682 on 8/5/2006 2:32:53 AM , Rating: 2
isnt he the same guy from a few years ago that said all PS3s would be networked and use distributed processing?


By Comdrpopnfresh on 8/6/2006 2:38:45 AM , Rating: 2
First they think everyone has a 1080p HD tv, let alone a HD tv. Now they think in 10 years everyone is going to have fiber-optic connections to the net? Because thats the only way I know of to download 25GB in a timely manner... (suggesting that by the end of it's lifespan, the playstation will actually be using all of the Blu-Ray space.... and the ps4 will continue witht he same spacing for games....)

Gonna be some large harddrive in the works... my guess is that current magnetic-platters top off at 1.6TB... So those people with LOTS of PS games are gonna have some problems in 15 years...




Physical storage would be better.
By Blackraven on 8/6/2006 10:48:19 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps through enhanced Blu-ray discs or thru Holographic disc format.

But not discless.

Besides, they should concentrate on making the PS3 excellent and reliable before they talk about a PS4.

People will be pissed if they paid 500-600 USD$ just to find out that their PS3s are flawed with manufacturing problems.


By RMTimeKill on 8/8/2006 1:11:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Besides, they should concentrate on making the PS3 excellent and reliable before they talk about a PS4.


No offense to the poster, but isnt this statement oximoronical? The name of two $ony products in the same sentence with "excellent" and "reliable"? Just look at the history of their PS2 or TVs or Speaker or Recievers or Laptops or Computers... etc etc etc... for about the past 5 years and you will see what I mean... Shortly before the release of their PS2, $ony's quality & reliability rating started to take a steep decline, and from what I have seen, it hasnt been fixed yet...


Haha, lets see how PS3 works out first....
By techhappy on 8/10/2006 10:22:38 PM , Rating: 2
Is it me, or is this a bit too much foresight on behalf of Sony? Lets see if the PS3 succeeds first before we even talk about PS4 hardware.

Still, it's hard to believe that we're going to move entirely to downloads to sell games. Just like another post said, can you say "bit torrents"? The thing is, gaming consoles have this on their side, with dvd movies , they can be compressed into smaller files, but videogames, can't be compressed. In this sense, who would be willing to wait for a 15 gig Blu-ray game file to download? In such a way, I think media might be around much longer than we think.

That is, until internet speeds increase substantially in the coming years...




By Harkonnen on 8/11/2006 3:41:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah lets see if they are still around to release a PS4.


By joex444 on 8/11/2006 7:28:54 PM , Rating: 2
Wait for a 15 gig download or pay $50. Yeah, let me think about that one. There is a reason I pay $43/mo for that damn Internet thingy.


If there is a PS4
By BladeVenom on 8/4/2006 2:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
I think disks will still be around, and right now it looks like the next generation will be holographics discs.




By AndreasM on 8/4/2006 2:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
.


Future Consoles/ Games
By hannons on 8/4/2006 3:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully future games will be vector based and rendered in realtime; therefore, they will take up less space and be quicker to download.




RE: Future Consoles/ Games
By Xavian on 8/4/2006 8:18:19 PM , Rating: 2
vector based graphics are always going to be a non-realistic looking form of graphics. See macromedia flash for many examples of vector based games. You will allways need textures, to say it would be better for vector-based graphics is just ignorant imho.

Also all games are rendered in realtime, so i don't know where that came from. Finally, the most space is not taken up by textures or game code, it is vastly overtaken by linked assets such as FMV's and music/sounds, plus i'll never see the need for mega sized, non-compressed textures on anything, compression technologies are to a point now where nearly no quality is lost during the compression process.

In the future textures will stay the same size, game code might increase by about 100-200MB at maximum, but the only thing affecting download sizes would be those very non-linked assets.

Maybe it would be possible for you not to download the connected FMV's and play without them. It would vastly reduce the size needed for download, i've allready seen this done with Galactic Civilisations 2, you can download merely the game code (which is some 300MB) and run without any movies. Or you can download the multimedia package to get these things (i believe that runs into about 500-600MB).


after the PS3
By MDme on 8/4/2006 3:52:13 PM , Rating: 2
...looks like Sony is going to lose the next console wars too

:)




RE: after the PS3
By epsilonparadox on 8/4/2006 3:59:06 PM , Rating: 2
yes because sony and nintendo have released their consoles and the war is over. ALL HAIL...wait, who won????


10 Year Shelf Life
By Ard on 8/4/2006 4:53:48 PM , Rating: 2
People are misunderstanding what Sony means when they say that the PS3 will have a shelf life of 10 years. They don't mean, as the article mistakenly insinuates, that the PS4 will only launch after the PS3 has been on the market for 10 years. What they mean is that the PS3 will, in all likelihood, still receive some support from devs during those 10 years. What it also means is that Sony will continue to produce consoles for that amount of time.

Yes, continued development is a bit far-fetched, but not unlikely, as the PS2 was also said to have a shelf life of 10 years and devs are still making PS2 titles that will be released next year, which would be PS2's 7th year. Case in point is that the PS1 had a shelf life of 9-10 years (depending on Japanese or American launch date) and wasn't EOLed until March 2005.

That all being said, I don't see Sony breaking the 5-6 year cycle that they've been in (PS1 in 1995, PS2 in 2000, PS3 in 2006) and would peg PS4 to launch in 2011 or 2012. Certainly if Verizon's fiber initiative picks up and the rest of the greedy bastards (*cough* Comcast *cough*) start to compete, a complete e-distribution setup wouldn't be so far fetched. Hell, even standard cable and DSL services should advance far enough to make it possible. Now, whether the retailers want this to happen is another story ;)




RE: 10 Year Shelf Life
By Ard on 8/4/2006 4:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
And of course, there's the issue of HD space, game size, etc. that questions the feasibility of such a model. We really need an edit button...


By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 8/7/2006 9:41:34 AM , Rating: 2
The PS4 will use cartridges!




By SeriousAlex on 8/7/2006 5:22:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think one thing you are forgetting is where is PS4 gets rolled out. Not everyone has access to super high speed DSL. Just FYI, not everyone lives in the US!


no disks will rune playstation
By lationheat465 on 11/26/2006 4:26:32 PM , Rating: 2
How will us the people get games for the ps4 if we cant get disks.you cant download the games of the internet.some people might not have the internet.some people might not even have a computer.if some people dont have a computer then they cant get games,and if they cant get games the playstation co. will lose money,and if they lose money then they wont be able to make a ps5. i emaled the ps co. and i wrote an article about the ps4,and how they shoulnt have a no disk ps4.

the advantage of no disk ps4 is that we will save moey on gas. and when an new game comes out and you get to the store and someone says were sold out you will haft to wait a nother week intill they get a nother shipment. but when you download there is no limit to how much games cam be down loaded.
should we have no disk ps4 or ps4's with disks?




By lationheat465 on 11/26/2006 4:28:48 PM , Rating: 2
its good and it should be rated 1. i like it. it should go in all newspapers.


backward compatibility....
By jaybuffet on 8/4/2006 2:40:50 PM , Rating: 2
So with no disc drive.. how are you going to play all those nice PS3 Blu-Ray games you have... oh well... it's only money




shorter load times?
By albundee on 8/4/2006 2:51:13 PM , Rating: 2
assuming we are booting games from hard disks at 10,000 rpms and higher (wd raptors)

boot times will be much shorter?

sounds good to me




By hstewarth on 8/4/2006 4:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
All this means is with Playstation 4, the media will be solid state - in fact its possible PC could be that way by that time.

This woould be a good thing. I personally have Tiger Woods disks that are bad both on the 360 and PSP. The funny thing is that I never remember having bad disks on PS2 and XBox ( Original ). just on this latest generation stuff - maybe the drives are made cheaper now.

Any solidate would be a very good thing.. Games and movies could come on ROM or downloaded.




What about the retailers?
By tjh on 8/4/2006 4:14:56 PM , Rating: 2
Sony is really going to piss off their network of retailers for this product if all games are directly downloaded from Sony. Losing out on game sales will cost those retailers a ton of money. If Microsoft or Nintendo stay with the current method of selling games the retail chains will definitely push sales of those consoles over the Sony, which would have a huge negative impact of sales of the PS4. Many retailers would probably drop the PS4 altogether unless they received very large margins/incentives for selling it.




Talk less Work more
By crystal clear on 8/5/2006 2:47:00 AM , Rating: 2
" With that being said, even though Sony's PlayStation 3 has yet to hit store shelves, Sony is already talking about its successor. Sony's Phil Harrison believes that the PlayStation 4 will forgo discs altogether "

My message to Sony is simple- stop all that blah blah &
get a workable product up for sale-Learn from Apple .




BOOO!!!
By Wolfpup on 8/6/2006 1:10:02 AM , Rating: 2
Like most of you (thankfully!) I am TOTALLY against this. There are SO many issues with it, like:

-no backwards compatibility with PS1, 2, 3
-no selling, renting, or trading games
-requiring super fast broadband that only a fraction of the population will have
-no way to back up purchased games,
and possibly tieing games to hardware-essentially making this an extended rental service
-probably requiring an internet connection to play games, some kind of authentication scheme

I honestly don't know what I'll do if we quit having physical games to buy. It's one thing for a rental-that's something I'd consider for the right price. Or especially for something like Gametap. But I'm not going to "buy" games tied to a console, and lose them when the hardware breaks, not be able to rent, not be able to trade with my friends, etc. Not going to happen.

I wouldn't even consider a console like this. Not if there are alternatives, whether they're PC, other consoles, or portables.




Not In Mexico...
By rupaniii on 8/6/2006 9:19:19 PM , Rating: 2
Well, there won't be anyone following the Mayan callendar who cares, haha




Things I Don't Understand.
By Woodchuck2000 on 8/7/2006 7:11:26 AM , Rating: 2
#3 - The sole reason that the PS3 is going to be the most expensive console in history is the Blu Ray drive included. Sony are making a huge loss on the initial shipments in order to push the tech.

Why are they bothering if their next generation is going to discard it entirely in favour of online distribution? DVD has been around for 11 years now and will probably last at least 20 (think CDs people) before it becomes obsolete. Sony <must> be pushing Blu Ray as a similar term investment if they want to recoup their losses. If the PS4 doesn't have Blu Ray when it appears in 2010-2014 then there's no point fighting format wars now.




By Woodchuck2000 on 8/7/2006 8:17:41 AM , Rating: 2
...at what point exactly did Sony say that? Unless it's been stated by an official representative of the company, posting headlines along the lines of "Sony Says..." is irresponsible, and extremely poor journalism.




your turn
By lationheat465 on 11/26/2006 4:40:59 PM , Rating: 2
what would you like on the ps4? my cousin works for the playstation co. he aloud me to make a coment on this website to ask the people to give ideas on for the ps4? if you have an idea for the ps4 please reply




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