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Some flaws exist, but new menu overall should please most everyday users

It appears that Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) effort to bring back the Start Menu in revived form are nearing fruition.  A leaked shot of a Windows machine running Windows "Build 9788" surfaced late last week by a user with the screenname "DUF" in the forums section of the site My Digital Life.
 
While the build carries the title "Windows 8.1 Pro" (the currently available release), this does not appear to undermine the authenticity, according to sources.  Neowin reports:
 
One item about the image that was throwing off users previously is that is says Win 8.1 Pro in the bottom corner. We have spoken to a source close to Microsoft who says that this image appears to be legitimate, and that these builds inside of Microsoft still use this branding, so this is not a big deal.
 
The decision to drop the Start Menu was one of the biggest sources of customer frustration with Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.  After much hemming and hawing, Microsoft finally admitted it goofed and announced at this year's BUILD conference that it would be bringing the iconic menu back.

Windows 9 Start Menu
Windows 9's new "Start Menu" [Image Source: "DUF"/MyDigitalLife Forums]

In its current form, the "new" Start Menu features two panes.  The left pane will include pinned apps, as well as commonly used apps or hubs.  The right will feature a compacted version of your Metro Start screen, with core hubs Microsoft considers important.  If you click the "All Apps" option, reportedly this hub will transform to a list of apps, similar to Windows Phone's scrollable alphabetic listing.
 
One major change is the lack of a folder-based system for accessing apps in the start menu.  This may irk some power users, however, it seems that typically users own use one key executable per major app anyways, and generally giving them that executable faster is probably the most efficient option.
 
On the flip side, the decision to include Metro (Modern UI) style hubs in the left pane leads to some redundancy in the left and right panes as we can see in the screenshot.  Microsoft might want to exclude core hubs that already appear on the right from appearing twice.
 
The current rumor is that Microsoft will release the new Start Menu with Windows "Threshold" (Windows 9?) sometime early next year -- possibly in April.

Sources: MyDigitalLife Forums, via Neowin



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>.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 12:17:05 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
One major change is the lack of a folder-based system for accessing apps in the start menu.


You can't be f%cking serious. Is MS actually going to f%ck this up again?

LOTS of software installs with many executables, and links to help files, web resources, etc. Like, for example...Microsoft Office!

And almost everything else, really.

Looking at the Office 2013 folder on my own machine, there's 19 items in there, including the bits in a subfolder. So now MS thinks it's a better idea to just puke 19 items directly into the All Programs list, instead of having one Microsoft Office folder?

And here I thought it wasn't possible for their GUI designers to become any stupider. For the love of all that is good in this universe, just put the f%cking Win7 Start menu back in there and stop f%cking everything up so royally!

What a bunch of as$hats.




RE: >.<
By kattanna on 7/14/2014 12:23:55 PM , Rating: 5
honestly, I am left wondering why during an actual install of windows it doesnt ask you if you would like to use metro(default), or use classic win7 GUI. As its really only going to be "power users" who would be doing an OS install anyways. why they cannot include both is silly, IMO

or.. just continue to install classic shell and be done with it LOL


RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 12:42:37 PM , Rating: 3
Yes...Start8, Classic Shell, Pokki et al will still have plenty of users, it would seem.

Seriously though - what kind of cretin decides that organization is bad? That a giant mess is better than logical order?

Apparently Microsoft. And whatever idiot downrated my OP, apparently. It boggles the mind that there can actually be people in the world who are opposed to organization.


RE: >.<
By peterrushkin on 7/14/2014 12:55:58 PM , Rating: 1
"Apparently Microsoft. And whatever idiot downrated my OP, apparently."

Muhaha. Those very same people who parrot "Cloud First - Mobile First".

This is what happens when you get someone at the very top who is clueless. Lets just throw the Mobile into everyone faces. This start menu looks like total junk! Another wasted opportunity.

I'm seriously happy I moved away from MS. After 20 years and being a avid supporter, it just makes me sad. They seriously have lost their way.


RE: >.<
By BRB29 on 7/14/14, Rating: 0
RE: >.<
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/14, Rating: 0
RE: >.<
By Spuke on 7/14/14, Rating: 0
RE: >.<
By stm1185 on 7/14/14, Rating: 0
RE: >.<
By Monkey's Uncle on 7/14/2014 3:39:49 PM , Rating: 5
Downside? How many programs are installed on your computer? I have over 300 on mine. Downside? I do NOT want a list of all the program entries on my system given to me in a huge flat list!!

I don't run Windows 8. I don't run Windows 8.1. Why? Because some asshat at Microsoft had a brainfart and assumed I would want to see all my damn programs in a big-ass flat list that I HAVE TO SCROLL THROUGH EVERY FRIGGING TIME I WANT TO FIND SOMETHING IN IT!

Morons.


RE: >.<
By Spuke on 7/14/2014 8:49:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I do NOT want a list of all the program entries on my system given to me in a huge flat list!!
Neither do I. That's not a good idea either. I'm still interested in how they handle this. Not sure why I got the rate down though.


RE: >.<
By inighthawki on 7/14/2014 9:23:42 PM , Rating: 3
Can someone actually provide a link to the source that actually states that this will be a flat list? As far as I can tell from the sources, this leak is nothing more than a screenshot (one that can be very easily faked, btw) and I haven't seen anywhere other than this article that states that the folder hierarchy won't be present. I'd like to see a source confirming this. Otherwise you guys are just jumping up and down like raging monkeys over nothing more than a random person's speculation turned rumor.


RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 3:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
...one huge list with hundreds, if not thousands, of links on it, sorted purely alphabetically, sounds better to you than a list of a handful of folders, grouped by application type or vendor or some other logical value?

Please do not procreate. It's absolutely maddening that there can be people this stupid...who manage to continue to exist somehow, rather than Darwin-Awarding themselves into oblivion.


RE: >.<
By GreenEnvt on 7/14/2014 3:48:37 PM , Rating: 5
Well one off the top of my head, is that many companies don't have their program folder or more problematic their application titles named as you'd expect.

One example from at work, we use a file syncing tool called "Egnyte", the app is called "Egnyte personal cloud"

On Win7, you goto start, programs, egyte, and can see your choices.
On Win8/8.1 you click start, and then type egnyte, but nothing comes up. Odd, so you click the down arrow to look, but nothing related to egnyte. Eventually after asking Google for help or looking at icons you realize Egnyte labelled their app "Start personal cloud" with no mention of their name. Nice.

Now this could be fixed going forward if companies label their stuff better, but there are many tens of thousands of apps out there already with similar issues.


RE: >.<
By bodar on 7/14/2014 7:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
The point is that it would have been trivial to allow a power user to create their own organization structure, but that was apparently too frickin' hard. Start Search is great (and my primary method for launching apps) but Microsoft's one-size fits all philosophy is what got people pissed in the first place.

Hey MS: Give people what they want and don't just half-ass it because you can't stand being wrong. Interfaces can be both simple and powerful.


RE: >.<
By Spuke on 7/14/2014 9:09:51 PM , Rating: 3
Disagree, people aren't using Win8 because they can't figure out the UI. EVERY single non-nerd user I encounter thinks the desktop is gone. They think the start menu IS the desktop! Once I tell them it's still there and show them how to get there, desktop button or update 1 install, they're sort of ok with it. I say sort of because they still can't find anything without the start menu, generally. I say generally because there are still quite a few users that don't understand the start menu still. If it's not on the desktop, it doesn't exist (I couldn't tell you how many people STILL don't get this).

The biggest whiners I mean complainers are techies. Generally, they can't stand it. What's interesting is I've run into quite a few nerds that think the start menu is the desktop too (only those that haven't used Win8 though).


RE: >.<
By w8gaming on 7/14/2014 10:09:57 PM , Rating: 2
For some users with very limited software that they use daily, such a change is not an issue. But in a typical business environment, many officer workers typically have to access lots of software to get work done. Commonly the related software is grouped together in a folder for easier organization.


RE: >.<
By cknobman on 7/14/2014 2:34:47 PM , Rating: 3
There is organization just different than what you are used to.

Unlike Android on Windows you can make each app launcher/shortcut different sizes according to how much space you need it to take and if you want it to give you real time information right there on the home screen.

As for apps infinitely scrolling Windows has something cool called a jump list. This is used all over the OS and allows you to "jump" quickly to the area you want. For example in the app selection list the jump list is the alphabet. Click on a letter of the alphabet to "jump" to that section of the app list and see the app you want without scrolling. Its very easy and intuitive. Best part is you dont have to spend a bunch of time mixing/matching/sorting the apps specifically to get the view you want.

Not saying its better or worse, but its different and its effective.


RE: >.<
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/2014 2:42:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unlike Android on Windows you can make each app launcher/shortcut different sizes according to how much space you need it to take and if you want it to give you real time information right there on the home screen.


How is that different than a Widget? Which can also be resized in Android. Android also supports icon resizing too. What do you mean "unlike Android"?

quote:
As for apps infinitely scrolling Windows has something cool called a jump list. This is used all over the OS and allows you to "jump" quickly to the area you want. For example in the app selection list the jump list is the alphabet. Click on a letter of the alphabet to "jump" to that section of the app list and see the app you want without scrolling


How is that more efficient than going into the Android app tray, which is alphabetical, and opening the app from there?

And if you're leaving the home screen to go to the app selection list anyway, to do something that could/should be done from the home screen, you've totally missed my point.

That just adds another step that wouldn't be a necessity if the base UI wasn't such a seemingly disorganized mess.


RE: >.<
By nikon133 on 7/14/2014 5:14:12 PM , Rating: 3
Difference is really in the eye of beholder. I love geometric order that tiles provide. I wasn't inspired to use Widgets nor Gadgets, either on Android or Windows Vista/7 desktops. On WP8.1 (and, to a lesser degree, on W8.1) everything relevant is tiled to provide me with preview without opening app (calendar, mail, txt, phone...). In addition, it is my opinion that tiles use space better. Looking at my friends' S3 (comparable screen size to my 920), noone has equal number of widgets with same amount of info available on single screen.

As of app list, I cannot recall if Android lets you jump to specific letter - I believe you have to scroll through the whole list if you want to reach apps that start with W or Z. Might look minor, but makes a lot of difference - again, much as I am concerned.


RE: >.<
By themaster08 on 7/14/2014 2:38:55 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I really just cannot understand how people can claim to like, or even prefer, the Windows Phone UI.
Of course you can't, because you're unable to fathom that not everyone has the same opinion or taste as you. It's as though you think others "claim" to like the Windows Phone UI simply out of spite for Android.

Some people like Windows Phone. Get over it.


RE: >.<
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/14, Rating: -1
RE: >.<
By FITCamaro on 7/14/2014 3:01:02 PM , Rating: 4
That's your opinion. I personally really like Windows Phone's UI.


RE: >.<
By themaster08 on 7/14/2014 3:07:47 PM , Rating: 3
Reclaimer has no comprehension of the difference between fact and opinion. He thinks his opinions are fact. He is unable to fathom how others can like something that he doesn't like.

He's closed minded and there's absolutely no reasoning.


RE: >.<
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/14, Rating: -1
RE: >.<
By themaster08 on 7/14/2014 3:17:57 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Windows Phone's UI design is a radical departure, and that's great. But sorry, it's not an "opinion" to suggest a desktop folder/based UI is more efficient and organized than an infinitely scrolling UI with things placed on it randomly.
Are you talking about Windows 8 or Windows Phone here, because your comments seem be switching between the two?

Furthermore, things aren't placed "randomly". Tiles can be moved around, resized, and removed from the screen. You don't have to pin every single app to the Start screen. What is so disorganised about that?


RE: >.<
By Chaser on 7/14/2014 10:43:25 PM , Rating: 3
dog·mat·ic adjective \do?g-'ma-tik, däg-\
: expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted.


RE: >.<
By name99 on 7/14/2014 4:06:06 PM , Rating: 1
"Some people like Windows Phone. Get over it."

Yes. 2% of the population, I think is the most recent number.


RE: >.<
By nikon133 on 7/14/2014 5:49:46 PM , Rating: 2
That would have some weight if all three mobile OSes were released together... but they weren't.

Android had 2% at some point, compared to heavy hitters at the time - Symbian, BB and iOS, and look at all of them now.

Current WP market share is not that much about how many people like it (or would like it), but about how many people were exposed to it and how many are willing to leave their current platforms and go through data migration and finding all the apps they already have and use just for the sake of changing platform; realistically, any of 3 platforms can satisfy needs of huge majority of users anyway.


RE: >.<
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/14, Rating: -1
RE: >.<
By nikon133 on 7/15/2014 12:23:13 AM , Rating: 3
It was a bit easier for Android to grow - it didn't compete against Android, only iOS... and others were already facing extinction.

I'm not saying that WP is following Android's runaway success... but I do believe that it is good platform, and I think it still has good chance to make it. Not Windows Desktop (or even Android) scale of "make it", but enough to be relevant for developers and users alike. Maybe even squeeze iOS out of No.2 place at some point.


RE: >.<
By naris on 7/14/2014 2:47:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I cannot fathom how the software giant who brought the UI graphical interface to everyone, can now have the worst PC and mobile interface on the market!


But, Xerox doesn't have a mobile interface.


RE: >.<
By Monkey's Uncle on 7/14/2014 3:43:02 PM , Rating: 3
Xerox didn't need a mobile interface.

Neither does my Destop PC.

My desktop PC is not a phone or a tablet.
I don't use it like either of those. I use it like a desktop PC same as I have for the last 30+ years.

I don't want my desktop working or looking like a phone or tablet.


RE: >.<
By bodar on 7/14/2014 9:43:44 PM , Rating: 3
I think you missed his joke.

quote:
In 1973, Xerox PARC developed the Alto personal computer. It had a bitmapped screen, and was the first computer to demonstrate the desktop metaphor and graphical user interface (GUI).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphi...


RE: >.<
By bodar on 7/14/2014 9:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, reply fail. This should be reply to the Monkey's Uncle post.


RE: >.<
By nikon133 on 7/14/2014 4:56:17 PM , Rating: 2
You'd have to use system for a few days, or weeks, to understand it. Not necessarily to like it, but it would give you some useful insights. I did use iOS and Android for a significant time before moving to WP, and I do prefer WP.

Start screen is just a collection of favourites; it is not supposed to be pages and pages long, IMHO. Only apps most frequently used. My start screen is around 2 screens tall, so it's easy to flick it up and down.

Everything else is on alphabetical list, which you get when you scroll right from Start screen. It is one list of all apps but organized by alphabet, and it is very easy to jump to desired letter without scrolling through whole list; all you need to know is the name of app you want to run.

Basically, letters in alphabet are acting as folders (in a way that you can "open" specific letter without scrolling through all the letters before that one). Rest is down to preference, sorting apps by name or by purpose. Coming from Windows Desktop background, I'm used to sort programs and folders by name anyway, so there's that. I did category (folder) sorting on iOS and Android, but often would come across apps that are not strictly into one category. Unless I used them often - and some of them I did not - I would be looking through a few folders to find. Alphabet sorting does not give you freedom, but as long as you know app's name, you know exactly where it is.

Works for me.

"Real" folders were promised for incoming WP8.1 GDR1, by the way. Best of both worlds? If executed right. We'll see.


RE: >.<
By Jeffk464 on 7/14/2014 12:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
Might as well get used to it I guess. The desktop GUI is going to be screwed up for good, its all MS's mobile push.


RE: >.<
By Jeffk464 on 7/14/2014 12:50:29 PM , Rating: 2
If you ask me just use the start screen and get rid of all the metro apps.


RE: >.<
By w8gaming on 7/14/2014 10:13:43 PM , Rating: 2
It is more about "same look and feel everywhere" push than mobile push. It does not need to have the same UI everywhere to have a successful mobile push, which MS does not seem to get even after so many years.


RE: >.<
By Mr Perfect on 7/14/2014 12:48:50 PM , Rating: 1
I'm guessing it's more like the 8.1 All Apps screen, where you only see icons for the program executable itself. No Readme shortcuts, no web links, or any of that other extraneous bullshit that programs typically dump on the classic start menu.


RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 1:03:18 PM , Rating: 2
...out of the 19 items in my Microsoft Office 2013 folder, 18 of them are executables.

So it's better to have 18 items on the Start menu, that I have to scroll past to find other stuff, rather than one folder?

Also...how do I get to that help file or web link or whatever that I may have a desire to get to at some point if it's not linked in a folder or otherwise on the Start menu? Particularly if I don't happen to remember what it's name was, so I can't even type in a search?


RE: >.<
By Solandri on 7/14/2014 2:34:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah. When you install most apps in Win 7, they put a direct link to run the app at the top of your start menu. Then all the miscellaneous executables and readmes are put into a folder at the bottom of the start menu.

It's a good system. All your commonly used apps are there at the top when you click the start menu (you can just delete uncommon ones, safe in the knowledge that a copy is in its folder below). And if you really need to access an obscure part of the app, its folder deeper in the start menu is a good place to start.


RE: >.<
By nikon133 on 7/14/2014 5:38:39 PM , Rating: 3
I'm really questioning validity of this info.

Even on current Widows 8.1, when you move from favourites to all apps, you get apps sorted by folders. Only thing is that default view shows all folders expanded, and you have to click on any of folder names to close them down and reduce amount of info on screen.

I agree that exploding everything in start menu PERMANENTLY would be amazingly stupid thing to do, but I'll believe it when I see it.


RE: >.<
By Mr Perfect on 7/14/2014 6:43:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying it's a great design, just that that's Microsoft's school of though lately. All Apps on Win 8.1 is just that.


RE: >.<
By deathwombat on 7/14/2014 2:14:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not all applications are like that. I'll use an application that I use every day as an example: DOSBox.

I write retro game reviews on an almost daily basis, so I use DOSBox to play the game and take screenshots. When I'm done taking screenshots, I open my Start Menu and go to DOSBox>Extras>Screenshots & Recordings. I don't always want to use the default machine, though. Sometimes I need to emulate Hercules or PCjr/Tandy 1000 graphics modes, which the default svga_s3 doesn't support. I almost always run CGA games using CGA emulation, because you don't always get the right palette/intensity when you run CGA games on SVGA cards. So... I go to DOSBox>Options>DOSBox 0.74 Options.

There are at least three items that I use in the DOSBox folder in my Start Menu every time I use that application. There are other applications where I use more than just the main executable, but I trust I've made my point. Crappy games very often don't put anything in the folder but the executable and useless readme and homepage links, but real applications -- the things that makes computers actually useful and not just toys -- often have multiple useful links in their Start Menu folder, and it would cost me far more time than it would save if I lost those folders in favor of a list of applications.


RE: >.<
By ignatius pugnax on 7/14/14, Rating: -1
RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 12:55:27 PM , Rating: 3
Aaaaaand there's that moronic comment again.

We invented GUIs so that we wouldn't have to type everything in all the time. And typing stuff in means removing your hand from the mouse and moving it to the keyboard, and then back again. And Dog help you if you make a typo.

Also, you've been able to just search for stuff instead of using the program list in Win7, Vista, and XP (after some update that would put a search box on your task bar). So that's not exactly new either.

And in no way does it address the fundamental issue of the GUI being all f%cked up.

And of course, this is one huge reason why the market has fundamentally rejected Metro. If what everyone always wanted to do was to type everything in every time they were looking for it, Metro would have been a huge hit. Then again, we'd probably still be using DOS.

Thanks for digging up and throwing around that rotten red herring though. Please show yourself out.


RE: >.<
By ignatius pugnax on 7/14/14, Rating: -1
RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/14/2014 1:00:11 PM , Rating: 4
Excellent comeback to me demonstrating irrefutably that your point was ludicrous.


RE: >.<
By TheDoc9 on 7/14/2014 2:21:27 PM , Rating: 2
The good thing is I won't have to upgrade for another few years, might even check out the competition.


RE: >.<
By atechfan on 7/14/2014 3:40:10 PM , Rating: 2
I search all the time without needing to take my hand off the mouse. Since you only need to type the first 3 or 4 letters most of the time, I am not touch typing anyway. That said, I rarely leave my hand on the mouse for any significant amount of time unless I am gaming. Otherwise, keyboard shortcuts are generally far faster than constant mouse clicking.


RE: >.<
By damianrobertjones on 7/14/2014 1:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
Apps = You know where you can find them if you look within Explorer otherwise no bother.
Applications = Full blown things like Office.

It makes no difference where the 'apps' are held.


RE: >.<
By bug77 on 7/14/2014 1:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
At least make it configurable. It can't be that hard in 2014.


RE: >.<
By Monkey's Uncle on 7/14/2014 3:45:27 PM , Rating: 3
Apparently for the design geniuses at Microsoft, it is :/


RE: >.<
By retrospooty on 7/14/2014 2:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
I dunno, I kind of like it. The lack of folder structure does suck, but at least it's a hell of a lot better than the full screen nightmare that came before it. TO me that was by far the worst part.


RE: >.<
By Monkey's Uncle on 7/14/2014 3:26:47 PM , Rating: 3
I'm with you on this one Moto.

That looks like a clown puked all over the Windows 7 start menu. Damn that shit it is butt-ugly!

When I click "all apps", I do NOT want to be given a humongous linear list of all the crap I got installed on my system!

Look at it this way:

How are files stored on a hard disk? Are they stored in a hierarchy of folders or as one huge sorted list of single files with no directories? Why?

If you had a couple million files on that hard disk, Which one is easier to search? Scroll through a million files, or simply drilling down through a logical hierarchy of directories until you find 'the one'?

My computer has almost 300 programs installed on it. Why on earth would Microsoft assume I would ever want to scroll start menu entries for all those files looking for the one single program that I want to run?

Answer: I wouldn't.

If I consider Windows 9 (ant that appears to be pretty iff-ey right now), Stardock will be keeping me as a loyal customer - as long as they replace the stock Windows 9 start menu.


RE: >.<
By Drafter on 7/14/2014 3:40:40 PM , Rating: 2
Do you launch programs from the start menu using search or do you navigate the menus? Using the "hit the win-key and type what you want method", You should always get specifically what you want if you type the name of the executable... outlook, excel, etc for MS Office will yield the correct result to launch the correct program. I doubt you'll get all 19 items if you type exactly what you want.

What I don't like about it is that sometimes I find extensions and tools for my programs (or junk I don't want!!!) that I would have otherwise never known about. I need to manually explore the start menu to see what's available within my program suites. Microsoft is essentially hiding them from me and telling me to go dig it up with key words. Maybe they have this figured out, who knows, but it seems like a problem to me.

Another thing I've noticed just walking around my office and looking at all the Windows 7 desktops is that everyone places icons for what they want on their desktops or taskbar in their own unique way that is familiar to them. It's perfect in its simplicity. MS should have never gone for a UI overhaul... touching a screen and/or launching your programs from a segregated UI just isn't a productive way to use a computer. They put the fickle consumer ahead of the loyal enterprise users. What a bunch of boneheads.



RE: >.<
By inighthawki on 7/14/2014 3:46:22 PM , Rating: 2
Where exactly did he find that tidbit of information? None of his sources seem to claim this, and from what I can gather the only thing leaked was a screenshot - not a build. So where did Mick arrive at this conclusion from? Also we don't even know if the screenshot is real. Look at the forum source. A guy on the next page made a just-as-convincing fake:
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/55109-New...


RE: >.<
By p05esto on 7/14/2014 8:48:12 PM , Rating: 1
Preach it brother, I stand behind you 100%. MS needs a kick in the ass. Any one of us power users could go in and set them straight. Just make it flexible, adjustable via settings for novice idiots and for power users. Problem solved.


RE: >.<
By Helbore on 7/15/2014 5:19:32 PM , Rating: 2
I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that by apps, they only mean modern (metro) apps. I would assume that traditional desktop applications will work in the way the old start menu did.

Of course, I might be wrong and MS might have just made this new start menu totally pointless. But I'm nothing if not a naïve optimist.


RE: >.<
By Motoman on 7/15/2014 8:36:12 PM , Rating: 2
I really wanted to be an optimist at one time. But I was convinced that it wouldn't work out...


RE: >.<
By unplug on 7/16/2014 10:17:11 AM , Rating: 2
Did you try sorting the huge flat app list "by category"?

Categories acts same way as folders and lists all the executables, help files, web links under that category. If you click any category, a list of categories/folders will appear.

All they need to do here is make those categories "collapsible". This can be applied to the new start menu.


RE: >.<
By MadDogMorgan on 7/18/2014 12:34:27 AM , Rating: 2
Motoman, I love your post. To the blather below it about "I like this UI better, I like that UI better ..." I say: doesn't this just beg the real question of why on earth doesn't microsoft decouple the UI shell from the OS Kernel, unlock the theming engine, and let the creative people of the world go to town on it? As one guy posted, why doesnt MSFT let us choose between the Win7 style desktop and the Win8 touchscreen style at install? Some people like one thing, some another, that's why different shells on Linux are so popular.... wait for it... people ARE DIFFERENT and LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS. Why wouldn't you support that in your Operating system, especially if you have 14,000 extra programmers laying around?


"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein














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