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IT India Doesn't Like OLPCs
Tuan Nguyen (Blog) - July 30, 2006 5:52 PM
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OLPCs may hurt a child's creative and analytic thinking abilities says India

According to reports, India may not embrace the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) program. Sudeep Banerjee, India's education secretary said that the OLPC program may actually do more harm than good for young students in India. The use of a laptop could hurt the creative and analytical abilities of a child said Banerjee. A student may become too dependent on electronic tools and applications and fail to use their own thinking abilities.

Banerjee wrote a letter to India's Planning Commission asking them to spend the money on the country's education system, like school and teachers. "We need classrooms and teachers more urgently than fancy tools," Banerjee said. The reports also indicated that a proposal for better education had been in the hands of the Planning Commission since November of last year. The proposal is still waiting for approval.

Over the last year, India has rejected several technology initiatives aimed at bringing technology to more people and more areas throughout India. Some government bodies said that mass technology is a low priority compared to bringing such things as food, water and other basic community services.

DailyTech previously reported that the OLPC project received a large order from the government of Nigeria. According to reports, Nigeria placed an order for one million OLPCs. The OLPC organization said that despite the large order, it's waiting for roughly 5 million units ordered in total before beginning production.

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Sorry for American Children
By jamelt on 7/30/2006 8:52:22 PM , Rating: 1
If laptops ruin analytical ability then American children are all messed up in the head.




RE: Sorry for American Children
By GameManK on 7/30/2006 10:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
Not gonna argue with that!

I agree that one laptop per child isn't such a great idea. You really don't need technology to learn elementary school material (and that includes american middle school material ;)), though it's nice to have A (ONE) computer or two in the classroom.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By mino on 7/31/2006 1:07:02 AM , Rating: 2
Well, in those countries most children do not make it to the high school(high as in USA) cause there are not even enough schools to absorb them.
Their first chance to meet technology is at the elementary/middle and many times this chance is a last one also.

Also there is no need for a computer for an middle school child provided it a one at home. If not however it could help him a lot.

Another thing is that IMHO many americans forget that around the world "elementary" school means their elementary+middle+1/2high school.
I.e. here we have 9yrs elem. Which covers pretty much everything - from simple math up to inorganic chemistry and 3yrs of physics and world literature. Every school week has from 20(1st) up to 30(9th) hours of study.

In our "middle" school(4yrs, general type) we pretty much study the same as elem just a bit more detailed. Well except natu science classes where stuff like elecromag. physics hopes to penetrate our heads :)


RE: ERRATA
By mino on 7/31/2006 1:10:07 AM , Rating: 2
"around the world" =should be= "in many countries around the world"


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 1:01:24 AM , Rating: 2
How many textbooks and workbooks did you use while in elementary school while learning to read, write, etc.? Do you think India can afford all of those books for the two hundred million children they have in school right now?

This "laptop" replaces the need for all of those workbooks and textbooks, which is what nobody here seems to understand.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By mino on 7/31/2006 2:15:22 AM , Rating: 2
You have the point, however at least here it is common the children borow the books for a year and the next year other children use the. Thus the life expectancy of a schoolbook is around 5yrs give or take.
This provided we have 15 books/child/yr divided by 5yrs multiply by $2 a book => we got some $6/yr/child. Seems not so much to me.

The saving(if present) are not there, they are at CS lab not neccesery and so on.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 2:57:20 AM , Rating: 2
Do you have a source for the $2 textbooks you speak of? You're being a bit optomistic in assuming that somebody can print 500 page textbooks, of such a quality that will last at least 5 years, for $2.

You also don't take into account the many workbooks that are used in elementary schools that cannot be reused each year.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By lemonadesoda on 7/31/2006 3:30:06 AM , Rating: 2
No, that is a fair "cost" estimate. Printing in India, like many second and third world countries, is very cheap. And with large volumes, the economics only get better.

Remember that for every book you buy in a retail store, about 40% goes to the bookshop, about 15% to the distributor, about 5% in shipping, and about another 10% in the publishers sales and marketing costs.

So your $10 actual only nets $3 to the printer... and they make money on that.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 9:42:42 AM , Rating: 2
Possibly $10 for a soft cover, but you will never find a hard cover school textbook for that price. Textbooks are made with higer quality glossy paper, hard covers, stronger bindings, etc., which are all meant to help the book last for many years while being used almost daily. Nothing like your $10 soft cover that was meant to last being read a few times, and sometimes they don't last that long.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 9:49:21 AM , Rating: 2
> "Possibly $10 for a soft cover, but you will never find a hard cover school textbook for that price."

Err, the OP's point was that a $10 book only costs a couple dollars to print. A $40 textbook can easily be printed for $5 or so.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 11:01:11 AM , Rating: 2
First $2, now $5. Do you mind sharing with me where you folks are getting these numbers from? I've spent the past decade working in the education industry with Pearson, McGraw-Hill, etc., and have worked specifically with the development of online and print curriculum delivery. If you can share with me where you are getting this information from, I'd love to know, as the rest of the education publishing industry is apparently not aware of these fantastic sources you all have :)


RE: Sorry for American Children
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 11:22:32 AM , Rating: 2
> "If you can share with me where you are getting this information from, I'd love to know..."

My pleasure. Here's a link to a printing cost estimator. It will be actually on the high side of actual costs, as it doesn't allow pricing of runs larger than 7500 copies.

As example, a 6x9 trade edition, 200 pages, with a perfect-bound laminated cover costs 98 cents/book, in a 7500 run. In a 100,000+ run, it'd be less than 50 cents/book.
A four-color case-bound 300-page hardcopy , with dust jacket, is only $2.77/book...and that's with a small run, and, of course, includes a sizeable profit for the printer.

Printing is cheap.

http://www.authorslawyer.com/l-print0.shtml



RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 1:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
This is for a text only book, not printed using high quality paper and bindings. Textbooks have high color images (not 4 color) on half, if not more, of the pages. The book you priced might be appropriate for a professional journal with no images, but not for your typical textbook.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 1:38:50 PM , Rating: 2
> "have high color images (not 4 color) on half, if not more, of the pages"

Err, you sure you've worked in the printing industry? Four-color printing doesn't mean four output colors...it means the standard CMYK color separation, which yields color quality significantly above the "high color" images associated with computer graphics.

As for the prevalence of color images in textbooks, surely you realize this is a matter of editor (or publisher) preference, and not a neccesity. Many of my graduate-level college texts were fully printed in black and white. Some have few if any images.

Finally, given that the price quoted was only half of the $5 maximum I estimated, for a printing run far smaller (and thus more expensive) than what a nation the size of India would use for textbooks, I think its clear you're simply arguing because you don't want to concede the point.



RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 3:19:06 PM , Rating: 2
I'm quite certain I've never worked in the printing industry and never claimed I have. My mistake on 4-color/CMYK.

I concede your grad texts didn't have color images, though I don't know what that has to do with k-12 textbooks. Apparently you think one has to do with the other.

You've taken this conversation to a 5th grade level, so fairwell.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 4:04:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You've taken this conversation to a 5th grade level, so fairwell.

I don't see it that way - IMO the debate was respectful and reasonable on all sides.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By mino on 7/31/2006 7:40:33 AM , Rating: 2
When was the last time you saw an 500-page textbook for elementary schools ???

AFAI the biggest ones are ~200 pages - an these are considered huge.
I can't imagine an 10yrs old with 4-5 of those on their back...


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 9:45:18 AM , Rating: 2
For k-5 you're probably correct. I was actually thinking more of my old middle school books when I made that comment. My history books in 6th - 8th grades were ~400 pages (200 sheets). That's why we had lockers :)


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Hare on 7/31/2006 4:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
Books can be recycled from class to class and browsing an ebook is a pain in the ass with my 17" laptop not to mention a crappy 100$ laptop where you have to crank more power every 10 minutes. Let's face it. Todays computers aren't that user friendly. If I was still at school I would prefer plain paper for my math assignments.

I think these laptops are a good idea, but they have put their goals too high. Books, chalkboards etc and just a few computers might be something to aim for...


RE: Sorry for American Children
By mino on 7/31/2006 7:50:05 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. However I stil insist that one cannot compare its need for PC in school as an englishman(i.e.) to the need/benefit somewhere in Bangladesh.
I know myself how much _necessary_ knowledge posibilities I lost just because I had pretty much no oportunity to buy a PC.

Hell the moment I bought one, I realized what an idiot I was for not buying one sooner... Simply to have access to a computer 2-3hrs at schools is NOT sufficient. The simple reason beeing: to learn how to understand the computer _requires_ that you can play with it without beeing sanctioned by your teacher/supervisor. By play I mean do/try what one wants to, not games.


RE: Sorry for American Children
By Hare on 7/31/2006 8:05:36 AM , Rating: 2
Even if a kid gets a laptop, what are the guarantees that he/she could access the Internet. A computer without a network is just dead weight ready to be sold for food/tv.


By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 9:42:21 AM , Rating: 2
> "A computer without a network is just dead weight ready to be sold for food/tv."

Lol, thus speaks the youth of the Internet era. I used network-less computers for many, many years. They were anything but "dead weights".


By a1trips on 7/30/2006 6:13:23 PM , Rating: 1
and not being paid 2 cents to the dollar for equivalent work, so hmm.

You really think indians can't calculate they are REALLY getting paid peanuts, lol




By Jackyl on 7/30/2006 6:35:01 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing is going to change until the people of India stand up for themselves. and yes, I do know a lot of Indians are mad. Dell brought many Indians here to train them. While they were here, many complained how poor they were being paid.

On the other side of the story, many people think U.S. citizens get paid too much. But look how much it costs to live in the U.S. !!! Rent/Bills/food is very expensive. Some people barely make it on minimum wage! It's because of inflation.


By a1trips on 7/30/2006 8:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
Having been on both sides of teh fence, I do agree. I have seen far happier "paid peanuts indians" than i have seen paid top dollar american execs.
grass always greener on other side, confucious say.
On a serious note though,$100 laptops..for teh poor, that's five years of food and living and clothing. It's not just ridiculous, It smacks of an alice in wonderland worldview.. but sitting in MIT, it's just two pizzas to those nuts.


By TomZ on 7/30/2006 8:24:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But look how much it costs to live in the U.S. !!! Rent/Bills/food is very expensive. Some people barely make it on minimum wage! It's because of inflation.

I think that is a common misconception. The cost of living in many Indian cities is similar to or even in some cases higher than many cities in the U.S.

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/intsalcalc.h...


RE: cost of living
By a1trips on 7/30/2006 8:36:28 PM , Rating: 2
Oh my, Thaks TomZ
That's the calculation i have been looking for. so now i can go walkup to my boss and demand equivalent wages.
considering i work for one of the top ten corps on planet earth, maybe they'll listen.
or maybe i'll get fired, but that meeting is going to be interesting. Oh, Joy.


RE: cost of living
By mino on 7/31/2006 2:20:11 AM , Rating: 2
That table is screwed. At least a bit.


RE: cost of living
By lemonadesoda on 7/31/2006 3:25:59 AM , Rating: 2
I looked at the homefair calculator. That is the most bogus set of figures I've ever seen. Absolute nonesense. The Economist's Big Mac indicator is more reliable than that! http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displaySto...

a1trips, if you use that calculation with your boss, you'll get fired twice. Once for trying to hold the company to ransom. Twice for being such a noodle in using bogus figures. It's practically fraudulent.



RE: cost of living
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 9:19:31 AM , Rating: 2
I can't speak to the reliability of the numbers on that web site, but I will say that it's pretty funny that you would reference the Big Mac index relative to discussions w/r/t cost of living in India. I wouldn't think the Big Mac is a very popular food item in India, to say the least. Maybe that is why India isn't even on that index.


By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 8:49:23 AM , Rating: 2
> "The cost of living in many Indian cities is similar to or even in some cases higher than many cities in the U.S. "

Thank you for bringing facts to the conversation, TomZ. However, I must point out that such "international salary" comparators aren't an apples-to-apples comparison of cost of living. They assume the cost of living for an expatriate, who demands the exact same level of housing he receives in the states, as well as the purchase of a substantial amount of imported goods. In other words-- its the amount of money it would require for you to "live US-style" in that foreign city.

For instance, Moscow was recently rated the most expensive city in the world, cost-of-living wise. Which is probably true, if you demand a Western-style home and amenities. However, many people comfortably live in Moscow on a few hundred dollars a month...I did so myself for several years.


By TomZ on 7/31/2006 9:26:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thank you for bringing facts to the conversation, TomZ. However, I must point out that such "international salary" comparators aren't an apples-to-apples comparison of cost of living.

Although I don't disagree, that web site doesn't call out any assumptions like that. That was the best I could find when I did some google searches, but I was hoping for something better. Do you have a better cost-of-living comparison, because I would be interested in seeing the "real" numbers (if they exist). I almost wonder if such comparisons are difficult due to the factors that you mentioned.


By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 9:39:28 AM , Rating: 2
The problem is there isn't any way to make a fair one-line comparison of cost-of-living between two nations. So all such comparisons are inherently skewed, based on their initial assumptions.

I gave you Moscow as one example...let me give you another city, one that I've visited extensively over the years-- Manila. Housing, locally-produced food and clothing, domestic help, its all dirt cheap. Western-grade consumer goods, though, are more expensive. Transportation wise, personal cars are much more costly than in the US. But if you're willing to travel by bus/jeepney, the cost is negligible. So is the cost of living higher or lower? Depends on what you're buying. Since everyone buys a different mix of housing/goods/services/etc, there is no way to do a standard comparison.

This explains the longevity of The Economists "Big Mac Index". It began as a joke, but persisted because its actually as accurate as many other such comparisons, when you consider it doesn't attempt to factor in housing costs.


By PedroDaGr8 on 7/31/2006 4:53:59 PM , Rating: 2
Having visited india in Dec. of 2004, I flew in through colombo sri lanka 4 days before the tsunami. I can defiantely attest to the fact that the cost of living there is much cheaper. I had a fully tailored suit of the finest fabric you can buy (since almost all fabric comes from india and china) for $60, a bus ride costs 7 ruppes (under 10cents). EVERYTHING was cheaper for the most part. Except for automobiles, for some reason on those, the exchange rate works against them, and a toyota corrola is like $35,000 (when converted from rupees). Maybe that is how that figure got so screwed I don't know. All I know is that my g/f sends money back to her parents on a regular basis.
On another note, it is an amazingly lively country if you can get past the poverty and the crazy driving (according to Condenast Traveler it is the craziest driving in the world, worse than china, greece, italy, and russia). I loved it there, when you come back to the US, it feels so lonely and dead here. It is something really odd to experience.


By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 5:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
> "(according to Condenast Traveler it is the craziest driving in the world, worse than china, greece, italy, and russia). "

I'll put Ho Chi Minh city up against all of them, hands down...II can't really speak for Greece, but India and Russia aren't even in the running.


Laptops are...
By uksupramk3 on 7/30/2006 6:27:08 PM , Rating: 3
for the most part, unnecessary in education. Noone i was at school with just 6 years ago needed them, weren't even allowed in classrooms. Didnt need one at Uni either. Thing is, tech companies are desperate to get people hooked into using computers as a 'must have' tool. It's not like someones introduced writing or reading, its just making life a little simpler for people.

The whole OLPC idea is stupid. By all means, have a computer between a class to share, but for each individual to have one is just unneeded. I agree that it stunts creativity, and only serves to introduce technological dependance on students. Is there really any benefit in making people lazier and dependant on technology?

I use a PC for doing work on, but if the internet is down, or something else comes up, i'm not hooked to it and i'm perfectly happy to handwrite or draw something, something people should do more often, rather than relying on a technological convenience.




RE: Laptops are...
By Xenoterranos on 7/30/2006 6:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
unless of course you're a CS student. I'm on my laptop 10 hours a day doing homework. Without it, I'd need to wait until I got home at 9pm in order to do anything productive! So while I may belong to some niche exection to your generalized view of the world, my niche does in fact exist.


RE: Laptops are...
By Fenixgoon on 7/30/2006 7:44:32 PM , Rating: 2
but how many K-12 students specialize in CS? unless you planning on pursuing it in college, none :P

I agree, calculators, laptops, etc. are totally unnecessary in grade/middle (and most of) highschool


RE: Laptops are...
By mino on 7/31/2006 12:24:02 AM , Rating: 2
You kinda forget PC were not used as widely 10yrs ago as they are now.

Also internet was not where it is now...


RE: Laptops are...
By uksupramk3 on 7/31/2006 1:40:25 PM , Rating: 2
Well, i only just LEFT uni, and I started in 2004!


RE: Laptops are...
By mino on 7/31/2006 12:40:08 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe cause Indians do NOT have one at home?
Hell I bought mine at 2yr at university! Why?
Well, you pay hostel, mass transport, food, cloth and then if you're lucky - you've got some free money to spend on an old $100 PC to fry your eyes.
The tech got cheaper now - for sure.
But the sad fact is, in many countries children see a PC twice a week in class if they are lucky.

Also the whole idea of OLPC project is to turn the society upside down from downside.
The big idea is to enable those children broke their sandboxes, to see the light outside. No food or cloth or any "humanitarian aid" can do that!

Hell those governments are able to spend HUGE amounts donated for food on weapons and boutiques an so on.

As for India, AFAIK there is still hugely hierarchical social system and this procejt could IMHO broke that social system or at least erode it.
MANY people are afraid of that. Many INFLUENTIAL people.

IT a bit complicated, but overal the point is to have at least a choice to buy something like that. There is/was NO such possibility for governments/NGOs before. That alone is a huge acomplishment.


RE: Laptops are...
By Lifted on 7/31/2006 12:50:42 AM , Rating: 2
I think you're forgetting that this is to be used instead of many costly textbooks. It is MUCH cheaper to use ebooks on this device that have all of the textbooks in class, for each grade. This thing will replace textbooks (which they currently don't have and can't afford) in grades k-12.

Not such a stupid idea IMO.


RE: Laptops are...
By mindless1 on 7/31/2006 1:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
You might be overlooking that an upstart could easily supply textbooks far cheaper than the current US market endures, if only there was the budget for it at all.

I echo some others' comments that one laptop per child is unnecessary and perhaps a waste, but perhaps better would be to at least acclimate them by having one computer-equipped (per child, desk) class per day.

It seems everyone wants to go overboard though, they'll find a problem area and instead of seeking the middle ground they overshoot the mark so far it becomes untenable.


RE: Laptops are...
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 8:55:12 AM , Rating: 2
> "I think you're forgetting that this is to be used instead of many costly textbooks. It is MUCH cheaper to use ebooks on this device that have all of the textbooks in class"

Books are cheaper than laptops, period. Especially when you consider books are more rugged and last longer...and its easier to share a few dozen books than it is a single laptop.

And let's not forget the power situation. A child stopping every few minutes to pull the power string repeatedly isn't going to be in an ideal frame of mind for studying.


Capitalist Scum
By Sahrin on 7/30/2006 11:42:50 PM , Rating: 2
This bull is so tranparent. What three companies are the most notable techs outsourcing to India?

Dell
Intel
Microsoft

And...what three companies stand to lose the most if an OLPC becomes truly sucessful in the third (developing markets) world?

Dell (to OEMs in China, Taiwan, Sinapore etc)
Intel (to those pesky devils from Sunnyvale)
Microsoft (100 million Linux laptops worldwide? Sounds like a recipe for...monopolistic destruction)

India is getting pressure from the Tech companies that are moving tens of thousands of jobs there to not be involved in this initiative. This is really sick, given what it could me for India (granted, India's ultra imperialist-socialist market system will prevent any real progress) and millions of Indian children in terms of a greater future. *sigh* Politics at work.




RE: Capitalist Scum
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 12:05:12 AM , Rating: 2
LOL, nice conspiracy theory. Have you got any facts to back up your conclusions?


RE: Capitalist Scum
By mindless1 on 7/31/2006 1:11:23 AM , Rating: 2
Actually it's entirely reasonable to suggest these parties are looking to develop sales here and will use what leverage they can to discourage competitive technology. Wouldn't you, too? I mean at least within legal bounds, hopefully.


RE: Capitalist Scum
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 9:34:34 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, but it takes more than a logical possibility to make an accusation stick.

I'm certainly not going to argue that the OLPC project, and its acceptance around the world, doesn't have a lot of politics associated with it. But so far I have seen no evidence of the mentioned companies trying to sandbag it, aside from some dismissive comments now-and-then. Comments, I might add, that are no different in nature than then ones see in forums like this one.


RE: Capitalist Scum
By LumbergTech on 7/31/2006 1:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
i dont think its about them making money based on sales necessarily..i think its that they want to continue paying them next to nothing


RE: Capitalist Scum
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 10:38:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
i dont think its about them making money based on sales necessarily..i think its that they want to continue paying them next to nothing

As in the US and most other countries throughout the world, employers pay salaries based on the market rate, and employees get to decide whether they want to apply for the job or not. Nobody is forcing anyone to work for the offered wage. We're not talking involuntary servitude here.

There is nothing unethical or immoral about a company going into a developing country and paying that market's rate for labor. This is a win-win situation - good for the company because of relative labor cost savings, and good for the employees since it creates more jobs and opportunities than existed before.

Obviously the above can degenerate into an abusive situation, and I'm certainly not condoning "sweatshops." But I don't think anyone is suggesting that Intel, Microsoft, or Intel are running sweatshops in India, or anywhere else for that matter.


RE: Capitalist Scum
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 10:39:15 AM , Rating: 2
Correction: "Intel, Microsoft, or Intel" -> "Intel, Microsoft, or Dell"


RE: Capitalist Scum
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 10:42:04 AM , Rating: 2
> "There is nothing unethical or immoral about a company going into a developing country and paying that market's rate for labor. This is a win-win situation "

All excellent points. I'd like to add that, when a large employer does this, they act to *raise* market rates for those employees. Large international corporations have done more to raise salaries in India and China than anything else.


RE: Capitalist Scum
By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 8:57:38 AM , Rating: 2
I'd respond to the OP, but I suspect he's far too busy checking the lawn for black helicopters to read my reply.



I agree...
By Egglick on 7/30/2006 7:08:24 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
"We need classrooms and teachers more urgently than fancy tools," Banerjee said.
quote:
"Some government bodies said that mass technology is a low priority compared to bringing such things as food, water and other basic community services."
I agree with these guys. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that children in 3rd world countries need a freakin laptop, when there's millions of people starving to death and the education systems are in ruins. How about teaching them to read and write first??

I'm willing to bet that most the people would end up selling the laptops anyway.




RE: I agree...
By peternelson on 7/30/2006 8:48:45 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be more inclined to support a "one hard drive per child" (or per family), with machines with removable drive bays or built to allow hotswapping.

We don't use laptops 24x7 and neither will Indians.

They can share just like Western families often do.

One laptop per university student might be acceptable, but for schoolkids, it's a bit of a luxury, particularly one EACH. If many western schools survive without this why would the Indians need them?

Besides I think the price isn't $100 any more, it's more like double that, but with a subsidy making up the extra. Why not just send the subsidy aid into building wells etc.


RE: I agree...
By mino on 7/31/2006 12:50:41 AM , Rating: 1
Well, you could be WERY surprised by literacy rate outside america.
I remmember those american guys back in 90's that came like misionaries and kinda didn't believe what they saw :)

Many times their question of a kind: "Do you have water closets?" were not laughed at by people just cause not many spoke english here back then.

About India, the point is the time those children reach University time they would be wed or working because NO ONE will tell them(nor explain) what possibilities are there. Nor parents(don't know about it) nor teachers cause it is inapropriate for proo guy to go study. The old social system says it is wrong, end of debate.

Projects like OLPC - if properly executed - may help those childred just realize their possibilities. This alone is more than worth one year supply of rice...


RE: I agree...
By mino on 7/31/2006 12:52:33 AM , Rating: 2
that WERY is a good one :)


Congratulations Banerjee
By lemonadesoda on 7/31/2006 3:54:35 AM , Rating: 2
I'm glad to see there's at least one country that sees the fallacy in OLPC. Laptops, whatever the price/power/connectivity, are not the right tool for early education.

Once you get to technical, vocational, and tertiary education, that's when they are needed! But then to be competitive in the international marketplace (as individual employees, or as company in/out sourcing suppliers) the students require up-to-date technology and not the OLPC concept.

To me, this OLPC is an insult on India. While in many rural regions it is an incredibly poor country, at the same time, at the better schools in the cities, the education system is as good as any other countries in the world. The country is full of intelligent enthusiastic people ready to learn. Their educational problem is to find the skills and resources to improve rural education AND EMPLOYMENT opportunities. And Banerjee has put a priority on that problem. Top marks.




By non gay european on 7/31/2006 4:22:31 AM , Rating: 2
that´s right!
kids need to find the real spirit first, then they can be taught some hi-tech stuff...


RE: Congratulations Banerjee
By Spinne on 7/31/2006 6:25:09 AM , Rating: 2
I agree completely. Laptops are pretty pointless at below university levels. In fact, even at the university level, aside for a few areas, they're actually counter-productive since with spell checking, you loose your ability to spell correctly and write decent English without the laptop. Sorta like the fat guy who's fat cause he drives everwhere. Graphing calculators are an even bigger abomination and it's really stupid of Universities to continue to recommend to students to waste $100 on a Ti-83 class instrument for a single Math class.
It's great to see India rejecting these stupid OLPCs.


benefits of cell phone vs. laptop
By Kuroyama on 7/30/2006 10:24:15 PM , Rating: 3
There have been many saying that the cell phone is going to help the world's poor a lot more than a laptop (eg. The Economist). For instance, when the middleman comes around to buy the crop then the poor person can call New Delhi (or wherever) and find out the latest prices and then drive a much better bargain with the middleman. Apparently there's quite a business in 3rd world countries where one person in the village buys a cell phone, and then rents it out by the minute to those who need it.

What good will a few laptops per village do if there's no phone line for the internet, and a large fraction of the populace is anyways illiterate?




By Kuroyama on 7/30/2006 10:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and I forgot to say that I agree with everyone here who says laptops and school don't mix well. I never let my students use a computer in class, but then that's not a big deal in my case since a computer is generally not much use for quickly taking math notes.


India=\= intel
By Niv KA on 7/31/2006 2:53:20 AM , Rating: 2
Get your facts right. Intel doesn't have any facilities in India exept Marketing and so on. Most of the work for Intel is in Israel.

- Niv K Aharonovich




RE: India=\= intel
By TomZ on 7/31/2006 9:41:34 AM , Rating: 2
I disagree. The fact is that Intel already has a large software engineering group in India, and it is currently developing manufacturing facilities inside India.

[Intel India Development Centre] is the largest non-manufacturing international site for Intel; Eploys more than 1500 employees
http://www.intel.com/cd/corporate/iidc/apac/eng/85...

Intel likely to set up $400 m manufacturing facility in India (June 9, 2005)
http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/09/stories/2005060906...

Intel Chairman Crag Barrett announced the company's first major India investment plan exceeding $1 billion over the next five years.
http://www.physorg.com/news8740.html


india was smarter than most american schools
By rika13 on 7/31/2006 7:04:23 AM , Rating: 2
the first problem is language, india has a bunch of them and they are all regional and found nowhere else; imagine if every state in america spoke a different language

second is that outside of kerala, and a couple of large cities, the entire area is rural

third, thats a large ammount to spend; $100 x 200 million kids is $2 billion for something that isnt needed

computers are a joke for schools, most teachers still dont use them except to teach typing and how to use office; its dumbasses who think that throwing money and technology at a problem solves it

would al-qaeda really do more with technologically advanced weapons? NO, a shiny computerized rpg might be more accurate, but who cares about making a $1000 uber rpg, when 10 $100 rpg's are doing the job; the same is with schools, technology doesnt make things better, it makes things worse (which is why the dems want it, its something nice and showy, but keeps the education system able to give a slave education)




By masher2 (blog) on 7/31/2006 8:58:49 AM , Rating: 2
> "$100 x 200 million kids is $2 billion for something that isnt needed..."

Err, that's $20 billion, not two.



By MercenaryForHire on 7/31/2006 11:34:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
DailyTech previously reported that the OLPC project received a large order from the government of Nigeria. According to reports, Nigeria placed an order for one million OLPCs. The OLPC organization said that despite the large order, it's waiting for roughly 5 million units ordered in total before beginning production.


Let me guess, they'll accidentally send a money order for a few million over, and ask them to wire the rest back via Western Union?

- M4H




By XtremeM3 on 8/1/2006 5:57:18 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry that's just really funny, and I had to laugh at it.


unessacary
By ryandmiller1 on 7/31/2006 3:34:25 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree with the secretary, why should a country that struggles to get all the food and clean water in that it needs worry about laptops? Also for them more and better teachers are more important then laptops.




Haha crash and burn
By Sharky974 on 7/31/2006 7:06:22 AM , Rating: 2
I love to watch this stupid OLPC idea fail.




By Dfere on 7/31/2006 7:50:44 AM , Rating: 2
India has found a niche.. for now. The government is scrambling to build infrastructure right now, while capital comes in and while the labor differential is still high.

Start reviewing articles on India on CNN and you will see the same theme, a newer generation of Indians who eschew old cultural norms, and are much more like us to move out, be independent, and bank on the future. The government, responsibly, again and again, can be seen telling everyone that they must plan for the future.

The Indian government, correctly IMO, is worried more about building a working infrastructure first, and fancy gadgets second. This is before any consideration of "Intel is evil and we are resisisting them".

BTW- My understanding is India is a capitalist country- could anyone , anyhow, support the notion above that India is "Socialist-Imperialist system," or whatever?




They should have...
By DigitalFreak on 7/31/2006 8:13:55 AM , Rating: 2
kept the hand crank, and hired all those out of work organ grinder monkeys to turn them.




and I don't like all our jobs being moved to India.
By Jackyl on 7/30/06, Rating: -1
By TomZ on 7/30/2006 7:06:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So there...We're even!

Competition and a global economy are here to stay, so get used to it! It used to be you only competed with your neighbor for jobs - not any more.


By TomZ on 7/31/2006 9:21:31 AM , Rating: 3
Study says U.S. tech hiring grows
Trade group reports that domestic increase in technology jobs offsets the work being sent overseas.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Demand for technology workers in the United States continues to grow in spite of American companies shifting more technology work overseas, according to a new study.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/23/news/economy/jobs_...


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