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Print 86 comment(s) - last by Dorkyman.. on Apr 27 at 11:59 PM

China is looking at home grown patch solutions now

For many people in the corporate world, there is no real reason or need to upgrade from the 14-year-old Windows XP to a more modern version like Windows 7 or Windows 8. Some cite costs as a reason for not upgrading, while others point to the fact that their “mature” integrated systems simply don’t need anything new or fancy to operate properly.
 
One of the largest organizations that has no desire to move away from Windows XP is the Chinese government. China instead plans to patch XP on its own rather than upgrade to Windows 8, because upgrading would be too expensive (Windows 8 sells for 888 yuan in China, or roughly $142).

Just a little bit of Windows XP nostalgia... 

Chinese firms have reportedly released special protection patches to shore up XP’s defenses and the Chinese government says that it is now assessing those patches for its own use.
 
Estimates peg the number of Chinese computers using XP at nearly 70% compared to 18% in the U.S. As of early April, 25% of all PCs on the market were still running Windows XP.
 
Despite the reluctance for many to leave XP behind, Microsoft finally ended official support for Windows XP earlier this month. So many people weren't keen to move from XP in the business world that Microsoft offered to extend support for some companies for a hefty price. 

Source: Sky



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RE: Not for anyone
By FaaR on 4/23/2014 10:54:03 AM , Rating: 1
Reasons to move from XP:

UEFI support
USB3 support
SSD support
DirectX 11 support
Better power management options
More modern driver model
Higher anti-malware security
...And so on.


RE: Not for anyone
By Dorkyman on 4/23/2014 11:31:11 AM , Rating: 2
USB3...Gee, can't I buy a cheap card that will handle that?

SSD support...Um, I'm using an SSD right now on my XPpro desktop. Works great, self-cleans.

DirectX 11...Feh.

Better power management...I don't understand. My XPpro sleeps, hibernates. Not sure what I'm missing.

I'm sure there are incremental benefits, but on the whole XP runs great and there is no compelling reason to rebuild from scratch. And I'm sure you are as shocked as I was when the deadline passed for official Microsoft support...and nothing happened.


RE: Not for anyone
By Guspaz on 4/23/2014 11:43:37 AM , Rating: 2
USB3 support: Windows XP officially does not support USB3, and while a limited number of manufacturers provide XP drivers for their controllers, the vast majority don't. Intel doesn't, and certainly no onboard USB3 ports will work unless downgraded to USB2 mode in the BIOS.

SSD support: XP works with SSDs, but has sub-optimal behaviour. There's the whole shouldn't-run-defrag-on-SSD thing, the partition offset thing, etc. Most of these issues can be manually worked around. You can disable defragmentation, or manually re-align your partitions, for example.

DirectX 11: Sure, but DX10 isn't supported either, and not all games still support DX9. There are ways to trick DX10 into installing on XP, but I wouldn't rely on that sort of thing.

Power management: you're missing lower power use. There's more to conserving power than just supporting sleep states. Newer versions of Windows provide longer battery life while performing the same tasks by supporting newer power saving features in processors. XP is pretty bad in this regard. It'll work just fine, it'll just use more power to do it.

The main issue with XP, of course, is that the lack of security updates going forward are going to be increasingly problematic. Everything is fine for the moment, but as soon as somebody finds a remote exploit and Microsoft doesn't fix it, the show is up.


RE: Not for anyone
By Dorkyman on 4/23/2014 12:05:07 PM , Rating: 2
I hear you, but still many (most?) people view this as MS desperately trying to milk additional revenue by forcing people off of a product that works really well already.

As for USB3, I did a quickie search, found a USB3 card on Amazon (first hit on Google) and it was compatible with everything from XP forward.

Regarding SSD, yes, I don't defrag any more and I had to realign the partition, which took a couple of minutes. I use a Plextor SSD and boot is about twice as fast as the 10,000 rpm Raptor I used before.

Anyway, I will switch to a different OS when there's an application that I need which won't run on XP. I use a LOT of applications and it hasn't happened yet, but we'll see.


RE: Not for anyone
By Labotomizer on 4/23/2014 12:24:27 PM , Rating: 5
Yes... Supporting a piece of software that you could have bought 14 years ago for all this time and finally ending support is "milking" the customer. Seriously, what are you people on? No other OS in history was supported as long as XP. No Linux distro, no Mac OS release, NOTHING. And people act like Microsoft is trying to screw them over for ending support on a 14 year old OS that, at most, you paid $200 for. Wow.


RE: Not for anyone
By Dorkyman on 4/23/2014 4:00:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, it's just ridiculously old.

You know, to me the OS is just a tool. A tool to help me get work done. I've got a whole variety of tools that I use all the time. Some are quite sophisticated and yet maybe 40 years old. I haven't thrown them out to buy newer tools because they still work fine.


RE: Not for anyone
By itsfreebecauseiwantit on 4/23/2014 5:56:57 PM , Rating: 1
what a fucking retarded comparison.... Maybe your mommy should also keep holding your hand for the rest of your life?


RE: Not for anyone
By Dorkyman on 4/27/2014 11:59:35 PM , Rating: 2
?


RE: Not for anyone
By FaaR on 4/24/2014 3:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm sure there are incremental benefits, but on the whole XP runs great and there is no compelling reason to rebuild from scratch.

I suppose you don't use any software that needs more than 2GB RAM then... Good for you, but your needs are hardly universal, especially going forwards when even games consoles have multiple times that amount of RAM installed.

quote:
And I'm sure you are as shocked as I was when the deadline passed for official Microsoft support...and nothing happened.

What, you expected your PC to just stop working overnight or something? Of course things will roll on business as usual...for a while.

Just you wait though until a couple 0day exploits have hit, see what your tune you'll be singing then. ;)


RE: Not for anyone
By Motoman on 4/23/2014 11:48:27 AM , Rating: 2
None of which matter to the VAST majority of the world's PC users.

Other than your last point, which really isn't an issue if you keep current with OS patches and antivirus/antimalware.

The rest of your list is less than worthless to the hundreds of millions of PC users that never do anything more sophisticated than Facebook and email.


RE: Not for anyone
By Labotomizer on 4/23/2014 12:25:55 PM , Rating: 2
If you're using your computer for Facebook and Email then you DEFINITELY need to get off XP. You're really showing serious ignorance here.


RE: Not for anyone
By Motoman on 4/23/2014 12:29:40 PM , Rating: 2
Check the mirror pal. You're projecting.

If your position were even vaguely true, the world's XP computers would have all been unusable a long time ago. But there's still hundreds of millions of them in use...and they're working well. That right there proves you wrong.


RE: Not for anyone
By Labotomizer on 4/23/2014 12:44:11 PM , Rating: 2
HAHAHAHAHA

You're awesome. Yes, I'm showing my ignorance. I probably don't have a background in system architecture and design. I probably don't have a background in network security. Nope.

Saying XP is "as good as" Windows 7 in security is FACTUALLY wrong. It's not an opinion. It is a fact.


RE: Not for anyone
By Motoman on 4/23/2014 12:47:50 PM , Rating: 2
Point out to me where I said XP is "as good as" Windows 7 in security.

Go on. I'll wait.

I said if you stay current on patches and antivirus/antimalware, you're fine.

Those two items are not the same. That is a fact.


RE: Not for anyone
By Labotomizer on 4/23/2014 12:54:59 PM , Rating: 2
Son of a b.....

This would be a hell of a lot more fun if we were at a bar. Plus, I doubt we'd be discussing the merits of XP. Good on you sir.

Although I still think home users are at far bigger risk running XP than corporate users.


RE: Not for anyone
By Motoman on 4/23/2014 12:57:33 PM , Rating: 2
I would agree about being at a bar.

Home users are always at a bigger risk - because no one else is making sure their machines are patched and that their security utilities are up to date.

At any rate, I am happy to close this topic, and bid you good day.


RE: Not for anyone
By Labotomizer on 4/23/2014 12:59:41 PM , Rating: 2
That works out, I need to get back to my ESL classes. :)


RE: Not for anyone
By FaaR on 4/24/2014 3:21:54 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, so you're the authority on what the vast majority of the world's people need. Good to know!

Anyway, if you're using a windows xp computer to facebonk and email with you're better off with a tablet. XP computers in this day and age are hilariously slow, inefficient, old and obsolete.

In any case, it's not really enough just to be up to date with antivirus and security patches (what security patches one might say, going forward), as the OS is inherently insecure compared to more modern software. Like the Ford Pinto, winXP has the gas tank behind the rear axle, just waiting to get rear-ended. It's never going to be as secure, or heck, secure period, compared to windows8.

Damn, can't believe I sit here defending that POS win8, look what you made me do!!! ;)


RE: Not for anyone
By Dr of crap on 4/23/2014 12:44:16 PM , Rating: 2
Yet again missing the first point - a vast majority of user don't NEED what is on your list.

Grandpa and grandma looking at grandsons and granddaughters pictures on the facebook, or doing some email and checking for air fares DON'T need anything other than what XP offers - period.

Yes we ALL know that there are some that need to move on to Win7. And some have a need to move on for what XP does not have.

Lets try a number then - let's say 80% of PC users do not NEED anymore than what XP offers, IF security was NOT an issue. If all you do is facebook, email, vacation planning, recipes, ect XP is fine.

Please don't post WHY YOU need to move on we all get it, some need to.


RE: Not for anyone
By Griffinhart on 4/23/2014 4:18:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Lets try a number then - let's say 80% of PC users do not NEED anymore than what XP offers, IF security was NOT an issue. If all you do is facebook, email, vacation planning, recipes, ect XP is fine


See, this is where the "vast majority" argument kind of breaks down for me.

I agree that the vast majority only use their computers for certain activities like you list, and even that those same users may not care about DX11, SSD, or USB 3 etc...

On the other hand, those are the same vast majority of users that randomly click on links sent to them, don't really watch their malware status, etc... People are citing points for the "vast majority" while making the assumption that they manage their system reasonably well. Anyone with Non-Tech friends and families that has been called time and time again to "fix" their computers knows exactly what I am talking about. These are the same people that never run windows update, let their "trial AV software" expire and let it sit for years...

It's for this reason alone, in my book, that the vast majority should move away from XP.

It just becomes more apparent to me when those same users buy off the shelf hardware (camera's, printers, etc) and software that may no longer run on XP. Photoshop (full) and Lightroom do not support XP, and Even Photoshop Elements has a more limited range of camera files it can support on XP.

If you only surf, email, etc and Keep up to date with patches, Malware updates, have reasonable security settings on your machine, don't run everything as admin then XP is probably perfectly fine. This person, however, IS NOT one of the "Vast majority" of windows users.


RE: Not for anyone
By retrospooty on 4/23/2014 4:24:16 PM , Rating: 2
"those are the same vast majority of users that randomly click on links sent to them, don't really watch their malware status, etc... People are citing points for the "vast majority" while making the assumption that they manage their system reasonably well. Anyone with Non-Tech friends and families that has been called time and time again to "fix" their computers knows exactly what I am talking about."

Yup... The "vast majority" of people aren't diligent enough to keep themselves from being infected, espectially in a post patch XP era. It was bad enough when getting the updates from MS. Now it isn't, so newly discovered exploits will spread much faster than before.


RE: Not for anyone
By Motoman on 4/23/2014 5:46:32 PM , Rating: 2
...and the same stupid people are blowing up their Win7 and Win8 machines.

You can't fix PEBKAC. The statement is, and has been, "if you keep current on patches and antivirus/antimalware, you're fine."

Otherwise, a stupid user can blow up anything.


RE: Not for anyone
By Griffinhart on 4/23/2014 6:02:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, they are the same type of person, but at least the out of the box settings of 7 and 8 are far more safe than the default settings of XP, especially an out of life XP. So, no you can't fix PEBKAC but you can mitigate it. XP is just encouraging problems.


RE: Not for anyone
By Myrandex on 4/23/2014 1:36:29 PM , Rating: 2
I used XP64 for a large number of years. What ultimately got me to move away from there was the desire to integrate media center into my PC (wasn't compatible with XP64) and hardware acceleration for PhotoShop (not available for XP64).

Other features were nice and I enjoyed the graphical enhancements at the desktop level that Vista and 7 offered. Everything seemed smoother and quitter fast on a capable machine.

Jason


"Vista runs on Atom ... It's just no one uses it". -- Intel CEO Paul Otellini














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