quote: Instant torque - irrelevant, since the engine produces no horsepower when it's not turning and it produces low horsepower when it is turning at low RPM. A gasoline engine also has "instant torque" as it is already idling at 800 RPM or so, and it has "instant horsepower" as well.
quote: Ridiculous performance - it is quite ridiculous, since driving it in conditions that do not have california-like weather will result in severely compromised run times.
quote: Long ev range - the energy density of batteries is nowhere near that of gasoline or diesel, and it is unlikely to be anytime soon.
quote: False. Torque accelerates a car; the heavier a car is, the more torque you need to reach a certain speed by a certain time. ICE engines do not produce "instant torque". When the OP says "instant torque", he/she means the tendency of electric engines to produce 100% of the torque at all RPMs. ICE engines don't do that; generally, ICE torque is 50% of the max at the lowest RPMs (generally 800-1,200) , peaks around 2,000-3,500, then drops to below 50% from 6,000 and beyond. The swing from 50%-100%-50% is what jerks the car during gear shifts up and pushes you back in the seat as you hold the gas.
quote: Electric vehicles, producing 100% of the torque all of the time, generally lack the jerking and push back. Drivers have commented on how deceptive acceleration is in EVs since it's there, but you don't feel it. "Instant torque" makes acceleration smooth, something you can appreciate in a heavy vehicle.
quote: The Model X isn't even in production yet. Wait until there are models on the road with recorded data before making these kinds of claims.
quote: BTW, the OP meant the 4.4secs it's estimated to get to 60mph. That's better than many sports cars, and is comparable to some older supercars. Not bad for a car weighing more than 2,100kgs (that kind of performance is usually seen from a car weighing 1,400kgs with that amount of HP and a better aerodynamic drag coefficient).
quote: Which is why the OP said long EV range, as in "long for an EV." We have to see a real car in action, but the estimates are pretty good for a battery-only EV. Which invalidates the rest of your post, since Telsa doesn't create cars with gasoline generators.
quote: Considering your posts in this article, it's clear that you're not only woefully ignorant of this topic you're also fond of rambling and attacking people who don't agree with you.
quote: If there is anyone who is reading this thread and would like to know why everyone else disagrees with Eric's comments (or finds them not worth reading) I would be more than happy to explain in greater detail. There's no point it explaining it to him since he's spouting nonsense that can be debunked by an introductory book on automotive concepts and physics.
quote: News flash, people use quick acceleration a lot more often than they drive at 125mph+
quote: Nobody cares about top speed in a full size sedan.
quote: Oh nice argument. Great supporting evidence too.
quote: Well then I declare that "nobody" cares about acceleration in a full size sedan.
quote: People don't buy Tesla's because it's a performance car. Get a clue. If it drove like a dump truck, Elon Musk would still be a hero.
quote: It's great that electric motors give you "max torque" and all that, but I don't know why EV proponents go on and on about it so much. People simply don't drive like that in real life, even if they can.
quote: an electric engine will have better performance in most real world situations and will feel like the premium engine.
quote: Go drive a Leaf, I don't see people accrediting that with a "premium" feel in ANY area.
quote: For nearly $100k it damn sure better feel like a premium engine.
quote: But not even I go around launching my car for the best 0-60 times possible, and I don't see anyone else doing it either in normal driving.
quote: Having said that, I find pretty much all of Eric's posts here embarrassing. And that's coming from ME lol.
quote: How much nonsense can you cram into one post?
quote: "Instant" refers to zero lag when you press on the pedal. You may think there's none on a gas car, but that's because you don't know what zero lag feels like.
quote: The peak power from a gas engine at cruising RPM (for any speed) will pale in comparison to Tesla's induction motor at the same speed. Gas can only compete when you downshift and rev the engine up.
quote: A Model X will have ridiculous performance under all conditions. It faces no performance decline at altitude, like a gas SUV.
quote: Your understanding of a PHEV is pathetic. You don't use the engine to fully charge the battery. You use it to power the car when the battery runs out. Your numbers are complete BS as well, as they imply 10% thermal efficiency for the engine.
quote: 61% of US electricity comes from nuclear, natural gas, and renewables, all of which are far cleaner than gasoline. More importantly, virtually all US electricity is generated away from populations centers, using domestic fuel, at a fraction of the cost per mile, for all ~15 years of a car's life.
quote: REALLY? So the fact that electric motors' torque declines sharply as RPM increases is better than a gas engine, whose torque curve remains relatively flat as RPM increases, only to decrease gradually near the redline.
quote: Actually no. During the current limiting phase of the electric motor acceleration (zero RPM to peak power) the electric motor will produce pretty much constant torque due to constant current. When the motor reaches peak power it goes into the voltage limited phase where the back EMF of the motor limits the current and available torque goes into gradual decline.
quote: Current limits and battery voltage are not set in stone but are chosen by design for reasons like extending battery life.
quote: ICE's have zero torque available at zero RPM and therefore must idle. To get a car moving some slippage has to occur either by clutch or torque converter. An ICE's torque curve is far from flat anywhere in the RPM range.
quote: Back EMF does not limit current, it represents an increase in voltage that will rise until it matches the input voltage.
quote: With the Tesla, you could easily find yourself out of batteries after doing a few 0-60 sprints "for fun" at full throttle.
quote: Torque converter are viscous couplings and do not "slip".
quote: I don't know if it was true that he was just quoting wikipedia, but back EMF does indirectly limit current. You are correct about the current limit due to wire heating, but that's at low RPM. At higher RPM, there's a power limit due to battery/electronics/cooling, so V*I*pf is roughly constant, and voltage goes up while current (and torque) goes down with RPM. At even higher RPM, you hit a voltage limit from wire insulation and/or IGBT limits. So now you can't keep V*I constant, and ever increasing back-EMF with RPM limits current even faster.
quote: If by "a few" you mean "hundreds", then sure.0-114mph sprint, and cruising back to zero. 1 mile travelled, 0.5kWh used. So even with a leadfoot, you can cover 150+ miles on a charge.
quote: "Slip" is defined as the difference in rotation speed between input and output. Yes, viscous couplings have non-zero slip.
quote: You say no, and then basically say what I just said followed by something you paraphrased from wikipedia in an attempt to seem smart but likely don't understand.
quote: Voltage determines the speed of the engine; the current drawn will rise if a load is placed on the motor (which causes a drop in voltage). Current itself is limited by system wiring and the motor's windings, and exceeding this current would cause the motor and/or wiring to overheat.Will be funny to see what happens if a Tesla motor stalls while stuck at "full throttle". It will basically weld itself into a clump of molten metal in seconds.
quote: I'm not paraphrasing anybody!! Because your statement implieded that torque drops off (sharply) from zero RPM I stand by my disagreement with that.
quote: You might know the electrical theory but you don’t know how EV’s work. The motor controller will limit the current available to the motor. At low motor RPM it will chop the voltage to ensure that the current doesn’t exceed its preset limit. This is what I call the current limited phase. As the current available is the preset limit it is constant as is available torque. It’s the motor controller that limits the current not the load. Of course that is semantics as the load will increase to match the current i.e. the car will accelerate there by loading up the motor. As the motor crosses peak power (maximum voltage, maximum current) the back EMF generated by the motor is sufficient to prevent the current from exceeding the preset limit of the controller.
quote: The point is that electric motors' having full torque from 0 RPM is not an advantage over the gas engine. Sure, it makes the car "feel" fast but the performance figures tell the full story, and they're not exactly shattering any records.
quote: Current itself is not what drives the motor, it is VOLTAGE that makes things move. Voltage must be high enough to overcome the resistance of the system, and when a load is placed on the motor, resistance increases and voltage drops. To maintain a speed at a given voltage, more current is drawn by the motor.
quote: So the fact that electric motors' torque declines sharply as RPM increases is better than a gas engine
quote: The tesla has a 85 kW/h battery and your typical gas powered generator at full load uses about 1 gallon of gas per hour, per 5 kW of output.
quote: So if you had a 20 kW generator you'd have to run it for 4 hours to fully charge the 85 kW/h battery, which means 16 gallons of gas.
quote: Last I checked, 16 gallons to go 30 miles is a paltry 1 MPG.
quote: What you and other morons don't seem to get is that charging batteries IS AMONG THE MOST INEFFICIENT USES OF ENERGY possible.
quote: Of course it is. For engines with the same peak power, constant power with declining torque is far more useful than flattish torque and rising power.
quote: WTF is "typical"? Some POS from Home Depot? That's not where automakers get their engines, genius. Once again, you're using a 15% efficient engine for no reason.
quote: What on earth makes you think a car needs 85kWh to travel 30 miles? The Tesla does well over 200 with that much energy, even under bad conditions.
quote: Once again, no PHEV charges up the battery with the generator. The electricity drives the wheels, and only a trickle goes in to balance the occasional battery draw.
quote: WTF are you talking about? Round trip efficiency for lithium ion is 90% efficient.
quote: Seriously, where on earth are you getting all this nonsense from? Is there some website polluting your mind?