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Microsoft tries to compete with Google and Apple

In addition to the launch of new Windows Phone devices, including the flagship Lumia 930, Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) had two other big pieces of news on Tuesday at the BUILD conference.
First, new Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella announced that Microsoft would be following in Google Inc.'s (GOOG) footsteps, offering Windows for free to tablet and smartphone OEMs.  
This was surely a difficult decision, one that Microsoft's last CEO, Steve Ballmer, was unable to make.  But Microsoft had already in recent years drastically trimmed its smartphone and tablet licensing rates, given that it was spending a lot of money to make these products and almost no one was buying or using them.  Prior to this week's announcement, Microsoft was reportedly charging between $5 USD and $15 USD per tablet (Windows RT) or smartphone (Windows Phone) license.

Lumia 630

Gartner, Inc. (IT) estimates that today only 3 percent of smartphones and 2 percent of tablets run Windows.  Microsoft is currently in third place in each market.
But going free could change that.  
Mr. Nadella, who rose up at Microsoft as a cloud computing star, indicated that the cloud will be a key part of Microsoft's strategy going forward.  He states:

We are going to innovate with a challenger mindset. We are not coming at this as some incumbent trying to do the next version of Windows, we are going to come at this by innovating in every dimension.

Our vision, simply put, is to thrive in this world of mobile first, cloud first.  Our goal is to really build platforms, create the best end-user experiences, the best developer opportunities and IT infrastructure for this ubiquitous computing world.

Key components of that cloud strategy include natural language processing and cloud storage.  Microsoft announced the personal assistant Cortana at BUILD, which is currently in beta.  Significantly smarter than Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) current model Siri assistant, Cortana's advanced abilities to understand rather abstract queries heavily leverages Microsoft's cloud computing prowess.  Likewise Microsoft's recently announced OneDrive is gunning for Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Google Drive and other storage services like Box.
Microsoft is rumored to be considering an ad-supported free version of PC (laptop, desktop, hybrids) Windows to OEMs as well.

Source: Reuters

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data plans and coverage
By hughlle on 4/3/2014 10:47:44 AM , Rating: 2
I use cloud services such as google drive plenty, with laptops and desktops because home broadband is typically good.

I don't use it whatsoever with my phone though, as the price and data allowance make it rather unfeasible, not to mention the generally lackluster 3g/4g coverage and speeds. How does microsoft plan to change those limitations to make it's cloud so much more usable than what is presently available, and often not utilized.

That is jut my experience, someone fairly computer savvy. In terms of people i know, there are a couple that use dropbox, but again, mostly via desktops and laptops in the office, but other than that i don't know anyone who actually make use of cloud services.

RE: data plans and coverage
By retrospooty on 4/3/2014 10:50:51 AM , Rating: 2
"3g/4g coverage and speeds. How does microsoft plan to change those limitations to make it's cloud so much more usable than what is presently available, and often not utilized."

Most people are on Wifi at home and at work, which covers the vast majority of their day. Data plan limits are irrelevant for most, as the times you would be accessing that type of data would usually be at home or work, not while out and about. I use the hell out of my phone, but am almost always on Wifi. I think I use less than 512mb of my 2gb (if that) every month.

RE: data plans and coverage
By hughlle on 4/3/2014 11:13:23 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, but a huge number of people do not work in places with wifi, or their job does not permit them to use their phones for more than sending a text. And for the time when they are at home with wifi, why do they need use of the cloud?

If cloud is to be successful on mobile devices, which it seems it isn't at present, it will, in my opinion, be because it is usable on the go, not set locations. If my data plan and mobile coverage allowed me to upload and download music, videos, and files willy nilly, then i would use it on a regular basis, but due to the time it takes me to upload or download even a single song, it just isn't worth it.

RE: data plans and coverage
By FITCamaro on 4/3/2014 11:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
People who don't work in places with wifi generally aren't supposed to be using their personal phones to begin with, so the point is moot. And most of those people also probably don't have a lot of reason to access important information that is extremely large.

Google Docs doesn't really use a lot of data either.

Also I generally get a few hundred KB/sec to over 1MB/sec through my Note 2 on 4G. So I don't get how that isn't fast enough for most usage scenarios.

RE: data plans and coverage
By kleinma on 4/3/2014 12:01:35 PM , Rating: 3
Well, every picture I take on my phone automatically backs up to my skydrive. I can take a picture with my windows phone, and watch it appear on my PC in about 60 seconds. When I want to show someone a photo, I can do so on my tablet, even though I took it with my phone.

I also have all my onenote notebooks sync between my devices via the cloud, so I always have all my notes with me, regardless if I am on my PC, phone, tablet, whatever...

It sounds to me like you just don't have a good cell carrier, and maybe your access to wifi is limited, but that is not the case for the majority of people...

RE: data plans and coverage
By gixser on 4/3/2014 2:03:35 PM , Rating: 2
The thing I like about Windows Phone is that I can download my maps, xbox music, Nokia mixes, etc while on wi-fi for later use. I can also tell it to only upload my photos to the cloud when I'm on wi-fi. I don't worry about data use charges (work phone) but I like the efficiency of this approach.

Also see Wi-Fi Sense:

RE: data plans and coverage
By Alexvrb on 4/6/2014 12:03:58 PM , Rating: 2
Those are all really great features. But to me, the maps isn't just about bandwidth conservation. If you're travelling and you lose reception on a device with no offline maps, well... there goes your map! But you still have GPS, so a device with an offline map still works perfectly. There's been a couple of occasions where I've fired up Drive to help someone with an Android device that thought we were driving through a rather strange flat checkerboard section of the mountains.

RE: data plans and coverage
By NellyFromMA on 4/3/2014 11:57:43 AM , Rating: 2
The situation is no different than with iCloud which is a pretty successful consumer cloud storage. SkyDrive syncs what you choose to sync, which tends to be very small files at best. You wouldn't sync your dvd/blu-rays...

RE: data plans and coverage
By FITCamaro on 4/3/2014 11:59:39 AM , Rating: 2
Not sure about your carrier or location, but I'm pretty happy with Verizon's 4G coverage in the southeastern US. I drove from Charleston to Orlando streaming a football game on my phone through the WatchESPN app so I could listen to it with only a few hiccups.

RE: data plans and coverage
By Spuke on 4/3/2014 4:00:45 PM , Rating: 2
I drove from Charleston to Orlando streaming a football game on my phone through the WatchESPN app so I could listen to it with only a few hiccups.
Wow, what data plan do you have?

RE: data plans and coverage
By FITCamaro on 4/4/2014 3:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
Unlimited through company. ;)

Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By Wolfpup on 4/3/2014 1:10:16 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but Windows RT utterly blows away Android. It's massively faster, and it feels like a real OS, with a real file system, real printer/scanner/monitor/etc. support, etc...not to mention Office 2013! $15 would be an utter steal for it.

I hate that an ad company makes a half assed OS, gives it away free, and two companies that actually make real OSes are left trying to struggle to compete with that. *sigh*.

RE: Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By Gondor on 4/3/2014 2:11:43 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps those "real OSes" aren't as great as you make then to be ... otherwise their makers would be "left trying to struggle to compete", ya ?

RE: Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By nikon133 on 4/3/14, Rating: 0
RE: Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By coburn_c on 4/3/2014 2:55:43 PM , Rating: 5
They didn't

make a half assed OS

They used open source code to put adware in everyone's pocket

RE: Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By Flunk on 4/3/2014 5:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
Android has a real file system. Just install a file manager and you'll see. I can also print from it no problem (HP OfficeJet 6600, I haven't tested other models). If your tablet has HDMI-out like mine then you have monitor support.

I'm not saying Windows RT is bad, I quite like it. It's just that Android is also quite flexible. Does it make me want to reach for a more powerful system when I want to do major content creation? Definitely. But would I feel the same with a Surface 2? Probably, still doesn't have a big screen, desktop keyboard and Quad Core i7 and discrete graphics.

Android is not popular for no reason, it does what it does very well. Windows RT is a very different take on the tablet but it's not hugely more useful.

RE: Yowzers, it was only $5-15?
By w8gaming on 4/4/2014 9:12:35 AM , Rating: 2
The problem is Windows RT suffer from the sin of being a late comer. When the tablet market was exploding in 2011, Microsoft was not ready to offer any alternative. The market quickly divide into pro-Apple and anti-Apple segment (mostly due to Apple price premium and closed-wall app market approach), and Android happened to be at the right time to take up the anti-Apple market segment. By the time RT is delivered, running Tegra3, it is under performing in a market where Android is already quite entrenched. Sadly Microsoft priced Surface wrongly and missed the boat of trying to catch up in 2012. The road ahead now is much tougher for Microsoft. At least seeding the market with more affordable devices is a start.

Too late
By zlandar on 4/3/14, Rating: -1
RE: Too late
By FITCamaro on 4/3/2014 12:02:01 PM , Rating: 5
Spoken like someone who has never used Windows Phone 7 or 8. It's main drawback has been it's late arrival and thus low adoption rate and general lack of app support because of the low adoption rate. If they start giving it away, more device makers might offer it. I would like to see multiple options in high end devices with Windows Phone on it.

RE: Too late
By Mitch101 on 4/3/2014 12:53:42 PM , Rating: 2
Also while Android might be free the patent fees the carriers have to pay to use it are not.

Windows Phone OS may now be cheaper for carriers to sell.

The real money is in the data collection and Apps anyhow this is the smartest moves Microsoft has made.

RE: Too late
By FITCamaro on 4/3/2014 1:07:12 PM , Rating: 1
Very true. Every Android phone sold pretty much makes Microsoft $15. So a Windows phone doesn't have that and is therefore, cheaper to sell.

RE: Too late
By Gondor on 4/3/2014 1:53:53 PM , Rating: 2
But how long will this last ? Apple vs. Samsung licensing disputes revolved predominantly around "FRAND" stuff. What is a "fair and non-discriminative" license fee M$ can charge for something they themselves value at and sell for $0.00 ???

RE: Too late
By tayb on 4/3/2014 2:47:21 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft negotiated directly with most phone manufacturers and in exchange for not destroying them in the courtroom they agreed to pay $5 - $15 per handset. The agreements between Microsoft and phone manufacturers is not court ordered but entered into willingly by both parties.

No one wants a patent dispute with Microsoft. Especially especially companies who don't have a history of software development. This is why they willingly enter agreements with Microsoft.

RE: Too late
By sprockkets on 4/3/2014 3:13:16 PM , Rating: 2
Except Motorola. They used to license their patents when they made windows mobile phones. When they stopped, they didn't renew their license.

Microsoft thus tried banning Moto devices at the ITC. Each patent asserted against it failed, except for one, the meeting patent. And even then, they managed to bypass it.

Also, Microsoft has not brought Moto to a court over this, only the ITC. This is the same MS that took Moto to court over FRAND patents but not over anything else.

They also didn't want to go to trial with Barnes and Noble, another company that was willing to fight their bs.

Think about that: MS doesn't want to go to trial, because they have a big chance of losing. They already lost at the ITC so the odds are not in their favor. Worse, they can have their patents made invalid due to obviousness or prior art, of which Moto found prior art for the fat32 patent.

Microsoft has nothing to sue Android over. They've also been spreading FUD over Linux for years and never sued or collected fees either. They are late to the game and thus all the new features of mobile oses are already prior art on android and ios.

All they can do now is sue by proxy which they did with one patent troll and now Rockstar.

RE: Too late
By Shadowself on 4/3/14, Rating: 0
RE: Too late
By Solandri on 4/3/2014 4:40:58 PM , Rating: 2
Just FYI...
Samsung has repeatedly tried to assert at trial or through regulatory means Standards Essential Patents (SEPs) that come under FRAND rules and has lost virtually every time

Say what?

Samsung won their final case at the ITC and got a ban on Apple products violating the SEP. Obama then vetoed the ban - essentially forgiving Apple for its patent violations. (The whole thing stemmed from Apple refusing to license the necessary patents they were using from Samsung, because Samsung wouldn't give them the same price as they were giving other companies who cross-licensed patents with Samsung. Except Apple didn't want to cross-license any of their patents with Samsung.)

Apple has tried to assert these FRAND patents should only be worth about $0.07 per device, while asserting its own design and UI patents should be worth about $40 per device. You realize the devastation this would cause to the industry if Apple gets their way, right? FRAND would disappear overnight. Nobody would be willing to license their patents under FRAND for $0.07/device if mere design and UI patents are worth $40/device. They would instead hang on to their technical patents and only license them for hundreds of dollars per device. Your phone will end up costing as much as a used car, and would only work with certain towers on the one carrier which licensed the same tech. Interoperability would cease to exist.

RE: Too late
By Reclaimer77 on 4/5/2014 9:31:56 AM , Rating: 2
Windows Phone OS may now be cheaper for carriers to sell.

Except WIndows Phones don't sell, because nobody uses them, so they aren't going to switch from Android.

It's called logic, try using it sometime. Like 7 out of 10 phones sold by the carriers run Android. Why in the hell would they possibly change that because an OS from Microsoft, that nobody wants, is free?

RE: Too late
By atechfan on 4/7/2014 6:20:34 AM , Rating: 2
Windows Phone is number 2 in 24 countries now, and is growing fast almost everywhere except the USA. Most of us realise there is a world outside your borders.

Also, even with a significantly smaller install base, the Windows Phone App store makes almost as much revenue as the Google App store. At the rate it is growing, revenues will surpass Google's in a matter of months. What is going to keep people making apps for Android when there is little money in it?

RE: Too late
By Reclaimer77 on 4/7/2014 3:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
Also, even with a significantly smaller install base, the Windows Phone App store makes almost as much revenue as the Google App store.

Now you sound like Tony Swash...

Anyway this is the case because of Microsoft itself paying developers, because there was ZERO interest in Windows Phone app development.

If Google was put in the position of having to pour their own money into the Android app market, I sure as hell wouldn't be sitting here bragging about it.

At the rate it is growing, revenues will surpass Google's in a matter of months.

Smells like hyperbole in the extreme! Got a side of Straw Man to go with that?

What is going to keep people making apps for Android when there is little money in it?

Apple morons like Tony have been making this argument for years now. Yes iOS makes more money. No, Android app development hasn't stopped. Amazing!

RE: Too late
By drycrust3 on 4/3/2014 5:08:05 PM , Rating: 2
It's main drawback has been it's late arrival and thus low adoption rate and general lack of app support because of the low adoption rate.

The real issue here isn't either the low rate of adoption, nor the late arrival, but the apps. A smartphone isn't just a mobile phone, it is also a platform for apps. When someone downloads their first app, this changes the way they think about smartphones. Until then it was just what the manufacturer supplied them, but once they download an app, that phone changed, even though by only a tiny fraction, so it had a capability that didn't exist when they bought it. The next step is when they find an app is so useful that it becomes a "must have" app. Once that happens, that will affect the way they buy their next phone.
Most people have their "must have" apps on their phone, which means they are more likely to either stick with the OS they currently have or, if they are going to move to another OS, move to one with a similar size or bigger application library than their current OS has. They are unlikely to move to one with a smaller application library. According to one source, both Android and iOS have over 1 million apps, while Windows Phone has only "about 100,000" apps. This means, for example, if an Android user wanted to change operating systems, they would feel more comfortable changing to iOS than they would to Windows Phone simply because it is more likely the apps they "need" are on iOS than Windows Phone.
Thus, for Microsoft, they have more work to do to convince experienced users who have "must have" apps, that there are apps in their application library that will do what they want than either Android or Apple sales persons would have to do. The reason is simply because the experienced users will be frightened away from Windows simply because they will fear their "must have" apps won't be in the Windows application library. On the other hand, when a Windows phone user walks into a store to look at either an Android phone or an Apple phone, it is almost certain that the phone they look at will have good equivalents of their "must have" apps.

RE: Too late
By w8gaming on 4/4/2014 9:22:12 AM , Rating: 2
The late arrival is the main reason why the apps in Windows RT platform is lackluster. If the situation had revised in which Windows RT was delivered in 2010, while first Android tablet was delivered in 2012, I believe Windows RT tablets would have been the more successful platform compared to Android, simply because the app writers would have written apps for RT two years longer.

RE: Too late
By Alexvrb on 4/6/2014 11:58:05 AM , Rating: 2
Windows Phone has over 200K apps, last I checked. But that's not as important as this: Microsoft is bringing their platforms closer together with universal binaries (and Store), with strong development support for such universal apps from start to finish. Write it once, and bring it to all their current platforms.

In fact, if the developer so chooses, their app can be purchased once and then downloaded on Windows Phone 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, Windows x86 8.1, and potentially even Xbox One - and you'd only need to buy it once. Hopefully all the major developers adopt this approach, instead of trying to milk customers for more money. Either way, the actual app can be made available on all these platforms with ease.

RE: Too late
By coburn_c on 4/3/2014 12:04:24 PM , Rating: 1
First, Windows Mobile may look archaic, but it's still more functional the iOS today.

Second, Microsoft is building that better experience. Touch Office, Cortana, the dual SIM functionality, unified apps, and OneDrive. OneDrive is well positioned, unlike Google's sync your photos and content will show up right on your desktop instead of on a website.

RE: Too late
By Sivar on 4/3/2014 1:36:42 PM , Rating: 5
That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.
In my opinion, Windows Phone 7 on my wife's $90 Lumia 521 is FAR superior to Android 4.3 on my GS3.

The entire phone feels intuitive and snappy. Battery life, admittedly more Samsung's fault than Androids, is about 2.5x longer, and Windows Phone doesn't come across as arrogantly designed. Case in point, it is impossible to disable the low battery warning in Android. That damn thing has woken me up in the middle of the night more times than I care to mention, and I feel it is quite arrogant to assume that the phone is so important that, even on silent, it should wake us up just because it is low on battery.
I couldn't give less of a damn if the phone dies during the night. Its battery life is already so excruciatingly terrible, and the tools Android includes to diagnose battery drain so useless, I'm use to it being low on battery unless I charge it several times per day.
The phone is 4 months old.

Most of my bad Android experiences have been due to Samsung's comically bad products. My first Android, for example, was the original Galaxy S which Samsung knowingly shipped with a defective GPS. Don't even get me started on their televisions (knowingly shipped with bad capacitors), refrigerators, ranges, laundry machines, etc..

RE: Too late
By FITCamaro on 4/3/2014 2:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
I'm extremely happy with my Note 2.

RE: Too late
By flyingpants1 on 4/3/2014 2:36:02 PM , Rating: 2
Battery drain is not significant. I've counted like 2-3% in 24 hours. As for tools, "My Battery Analyser" is the one you want.

RE: Too late
By Sivar on 4/3/2014 2:41:46 PM , Rating: 2

My phone regularly goes from 65-80% to 5% within my 8-hour sleeping window.

I've used My Battery Analyzer, but "Android System" as the top drain (usually) or "System Idle" is not helpful. Sometimes it's the screen, though mine is on perhaps half an hour to 2 hours per day. I've also used WakeLock detector, which is more useful but a little too fine-grained, and most processes with significant wake locks are not optional.
I understand the GS4 has better battery life, but the only reason I got the GS3 instead of any non-Samsung phone was that my work paid for it.

RE: Too late
By Nutzo on 4/3/2014 3:48:53 PM , Rating: 2
Originally, my S3 would drop around 30% overnight.

Part of the problem was the poor 4g signal I had at home, so I turned off the 4G data & GPS. Then it only dropped around 20% overnight.

A few months ago I upgraded to 4.3, and tweeks some of the new power settings. Now I can leave 4g turn on all the time, and the phone drops less than 10% overnight.

Only reason you phone would use so much battery overnight is if you have multiple apps tring to sync data (like email, facebook, etc).

With 4.3, you can turn off wi-fi and set your email to sync less often overnight to save even more battery power.

RE: Too late
By Solandri on 4/3/2014 4:58:31 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, most "mysterious" battery drain problems are related to poor signal. While I was in Germany, I kept my Galaxy S in airplane mode (only turning on wifi when I was near a friend's hotspot). The battery would last nearly 5 days since it wasn't constantly searching for and communicating with towers. I accidentally turned off airplane mode once and fished the phone out of my pocket when it started to feel hot. It had burned through a third of its battery in about an hour broadcasting at full power trying to find a tower.

On my current phone (Nexus 5), when I first got it the battery would die overnight if I didn't put it on the charger. Then Sprint set up a new tower nearby (I get 20-30 Mbps LTE now - very tempted to cancel my FIOS Internet). If I spend the weekend at home gaming and not using the phone much, it only loses about 25%-33% per day.

RE: Too late
By Sivar on 4/3/2014 5:32:40 PM , Rating: 3
Nutzo and Solandri,

Thank you -- this is good information.
We sort of went on a tangent -- I do like Android, but I feel that it can improve in a number of areas, just as Windows Phone can. The original post implies that Windows Phone is terrible, which was the key point I wanted to address.

RE: Too late
By FITCamaro on 4/4/2014 3:13:18 PM , Rating: 2
Why are you guys not charging your phone at night?

Do you also have sync turned on for everything?

RE: Too late
By Reclaimer77 on 4/5/2014 9:37:40 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I don't get that. Apparently he leaves the phone in his room while he sleeps, NOT on it's charger??

There's pretty much no reason to not have your phone charging while you sleep. Kind of a no brainer.

Also I wonder if he's removed the back cover and inspected the battery. Sounds like he might have a bad cell. I've seen it happen.

RE: Too late
By sprockkets on 4/3/2014 3:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
But the lumia 521 never ran wp7 :)

RE: Too late
By CaedenV on 4/3/2014 4:29:21 PM , Rating: 2
MS is hardly out of the smartphone race. MS is big, slow, and lumbering, but they are here to stay. They only have some 3% of the US market, but most other markets they are sitting in the 5-20% range... after being at <1% 3 years ago. That is nothing to scoff at.

Win8 has not had a warm welcome, but it is still not a bad OS, and yesterday they showed windowed metro apps and a real start menu which will be coming out later this year for those of us who are not fans of the start screen. And the improvements that came with Win8.1 and 8.1 Update do address most of the keyboard and mouse issues.

The lack of apps on WP is no longer a huge issue as most popular apps are now out and getting regular support/updates. The missing features are largely addressed in the WP8.1 release, and we are expecting more to be addressed as time goes on.

Many of the development headaches for WP/winRT/win8 are being resolved with 8.1, and there is a clear roadmap to continue unifying them to make it easier with future updates. Making WP free, and win8/RT free on small devices will make it as cheap or cheaper than Android (depending on how patent licencing pans out in these deals).

At the end of the day iOS had a breakthrough, stagnated with Job's health, and innovation died with him. Now iOS has gotten bigger, buggier, and less useful with each update. Android has succeeded at the Italian Cooking method to programming in throwing stuff at the wall, seeing what sticks, and putting it in a pot together. You end up with a tangled mess of spaghetti of which the only real advantage to manufacturers is that it is cheap, and for developers it pays well based upon the bulk install base even though most of your software is just going to be pirated. I don't see how Android competes with a free OS that actual has some level of security to protect it's content creators.

Not saying that iOS or Android will go away. They too are going to be around a good long time. I am also not saying that WP magically becomes popular in the US. But MS is on the rise and they are going to do very well for themselves over the next few years.

RE: Too late
By w8gaming on 4/4/2014 9:27:36 AM , Rating: 2
I do believe Microsoft has a chance to turn the situation around, especially if iOS or Android slips up and make some serious mistake along the way. But the sheer install base of both iOS and Android devices are not to be taken lightly either. Microsoft will need to be ready for a long fight, and its strength lies firmly with the enterprise as well as power home users that need Windows.

RE: Too late
By nikon133 on 4/3/2014 4:34:24 PM , Rating: 1
It is never too late.

Otherwise, we would still be using old-school Blackberries, Symbian, PalmOS and Win Mobile smart devices... because both iOS and Android were late to the party.

Quality product with good financial backing will find it's way. Depending on competition it might take more or less time, but I strongly believe it is inevitable.

After replacing my iPhone with WP8, and my Transformer with ThinkPad 2 tablet, I believe MS has quality, and no doubt they can provide financial backing.

innovation? lol
By Argon18 on 4/3/14, Rating: -1
RE: innovation? lol
By coburn_c on 4/3/2014 2:57:33 PM , Rating: 2
It worked out great. Windows 8 is far and away the best touch OS on the market.

RE: innovation? lol
By Argon18 on 4/3/14, Rating: -1
RE: innovation? lol
By Nutzo on 4/3/2014 3:55:04 PM , Rating: 2
removal from most store shelves

I don't know what type of stores you shop at, but when I look at computers in any local store around here, almost everything is running Windows 8.

RE: innovation? lol
By Argon18 on 4/3/14, Rating: -1
RE: innovation? lol
By coburn_c on 4/3/2014 3:55:24 PM , Rating: 3
Still beats Linux desktop share. Imagine how bad Linux is.

RE: innovation? lol
By Argon18 on 4/3/14, Rating: -1
RE: innovation? lol
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/4/2014 10:45:56 AM , Rating: 1
removal from most store shelves,
No, they haven't. Now you are just being stupid.

No, wait, you are always stupid.

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