backtop


Print 56 comment(s) - last by ipay.. on Mar 11 at 12:27 AM


Grant with the iPad  (Source: BBC News)
Apple wants a court order

Losing someone can be a very difficult time, and we cling to their possessions as a way of holding onto them. But what happens when that possession is an iPad on lockdown?

According to BBC News, 26-year-old Josh Grant from London and his four brothers are experiencing this very issue. Their mother recently passed away from cancer, and left her iPad to the men in her will.

It was decided that the oldest brother, Patrick, should be the one to take the iPad. However, none of them obtained her Apple ID or password before she passed on. 

They attempted to show Apple their mother's will, death certificate and solicitor's letter as a way of proving they can have access to the iPad, but Apple said this wasn't enough evidence.

Apple initially asked for written consent from the owner that her five sons can have her login credentials, but that obviously is no longer an option. Now, Apple wants a court order to prove that their mother was the owner of the iPad and the iTunes account.

"I thought we might use it as a shiny placemat," said Grant. "I'm a big fan of Apple, their security measures are great but we have provided so much evidence.

"At 59, my mum was fairly young, I've already lost my dad and it's a bit cold of them not to treat things on a case-by-case basis."

Apple offers security measures like Activation Lock, which makes it hard for thieves to sell a lost or stolen iPhone or iPad. It's apart of Apple's "Find My iPhone" feature, which allows you to find your iPhone, iPad or iPod touch using another device.  

Source: BBC News



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/6/2014 1:05:46 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
They attempted to show Apple their mother's will, death certificate and solicitor's letter as a way of proving they can have access to the iPad, but Apple said this wasn't enough evidence.
This, should be MORE than enough evidence, unlock the fucking thing. God. Everyday, they show how utterly foolish they can be.




RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Reclaimer77 on 3/6/2014 1:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
Dude she might come back from the dead and sue them! Think about it...


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By fic2 on 3/6/2014 1:46:32 PM , Rating: 4
Wait the standard 3 days to make sure she is not Jesus and they should be good. Unless they suspect she is Lazarus then should be good after 4 days.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By MrBlastman on 3/6/2014 2:43:32 PM , Rating: 5
If I were the kids I'd tell Apple to check with Steve and he'll verify their authenticity...


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By GulWestfale on 3/6/2014 6:56:57 PM , Rating: 4
just ask the GCHQ to have their bosses at the NSA forward their copy of the data, and you don't need apple at all.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/7/14, Rating: -1
RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By abzillah on 3/6/2014 10:13:16 PM , Rating: 5
Wouldn't that mean that their mother went to hell?


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By ProZach on 3/8/14, Rating: 0
RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By BSMonitor on 3/10/2014 9:18:29 AM , Rating: 2
Of course when Google acts like a corporation, Reclaimer's voice changes a few octaves to:

BBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By tonyswash on 3/6/14, Rating: 0
RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/6/2014 1:37:07 PM , Rating: 4
Yet again, you show your complete and utter ignorance. Thanks.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By retrospooty on 3/6/2014 2:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Not once under any circumstance can he just be honest and say Apple went too far. Not even a "one off" case like this involving (I assume) a single Apple store, or perhaps a single support rep.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/6/2014 2:44:15 PM , Rating: 1
Of course not, APPLE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Motoman on 3/6/2014 1:29:31 PM , Rating: 5
I'm sure Tony will be along shortly to explain how this all makes perfect sense. Because of Apple's profit margin.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Motoman on 3/6/2014 1:30:02 PM , Rating: 3
Oh wait...he's already here...and already zeroed. Go figure.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By artemicion on 3/6/2014 7:30:12 PM , Rating: 1
Where do I go to get Google to give me my deceased family member's Nexus 7 passcode? Who do I talk to to get Samsung to give me my deceased family member's S4 passcode? For that matter, will BMW provide me with a new set of car keys if my grandmother wills me her 3 series but I can't find the keys?

Outrage @ Apple for not providing a service that NOBODY ELSE PROVIDES.

Welcome to DailyTech Comments Section.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Motoman on 3/6/2014 8:56:41 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Outrage @ Apple for not providing a service that NOBODY ELSE PROVIDES.


Please link substantive proof that NOBODY ELSE would help someone gain access to a device left to them by their deceased relative after providing copies of the death certificate, will, etc.

Otherwise, kindly STFU and GTFO. The point of this article is that Apple has been provided with more than enough proof to grant the request, and hasn't. Because they are d1cks.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By LRonaldHubbs on 3/7/2014 8:44:00 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
For that matter, will BMW provide me with a new set of car keys if my grandmother wills me her 3 series but I can't find the keys?

Yes, they will, actually. Was that a serious question?


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By tng on 3/10/2014 7:21:32 PM , Rating: 2
LMFAO....


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By invidious on 3/6/2014 1:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
It's surprising that Apple's EULA doesn't have a next of kin provision granting authorized access to the account.

On a related note, every parent should be estate planning. It doesn't matter how unpleasant the thought of it is, the reality of what happens if you don't is far more unpleasant.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By CaedenV on 3/6/2014 1:55:06 PM , Rating: 3
Funny thing is that it sounds like there was some estate planning done here. Dear old Mum had a will that even listed the iPad's transfer of ownership. The thing is that most estate planning is designed around the transfer of physical goods and properties, not data and accounts. How many lawyers writing wills even think to pass on important account information as a part of a will or trust? How many people even realize that they cannot legally transfer most data and accounts?


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Argon18 on 3/6/14, Rating: 0
RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By BSquared on 3/7/2014 12:26:52 AM , Rating: 3
All of the listed companies in your post have mechanisms for accounts of the deceased.

Facebook's privacy policy prohibits the disclosure of login credentials but instead will cancel or memorialize the account of the deceased upon notification from next of kin. Google will provide access to the Google account (G+, GMail, etc) upon furnishing a death certificate as well as official documentation proving representation of estate. Microsoft, through Live accounts, has a very similar process as Google. Sony only allows cancellation of a deceased's account at the moment.

I'm pretty sure there are tons of companies, whose products we use everyday, that have contingencies for when a user passes and next of kin needs access, wishes to cancel or transfer ownership. Just seems the problem, which Apple has readdressed, was that they didn't want to divulge the login credentials, but were happy to change user access.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Iketh on 3/6/2014 1:47:58 PM , Rating: 3
the point is you could bring that evidence to apple with any iPad you wanted, they don't know if she owned it

I wonder if stating a serial number in the will is sufficient legally


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By anactoraaron on 3/6/2014 3:00:13 PM , Rating: 3
I would think they could check the serial #, but they could also check the associated iTunes account on this device for the credit card on file and match that card to their mum. If she made purchases on the app store with that card (or at the very least associated a credit card to the account) on that device and for that specific device (proven by the associated iPad serial number on her account) then there should be nothing left to prove. If all that's confirmed, they (Apple) should then unlock it.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By amanojaku on 3/6/2014 3:51:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
the point is you could bring that evidence to apple with any iPad you wanted, they don't know if she owned it
You've got to be kidding. Apple was willing to accept her written consent. How would Apple prove she wrote the letter? All that has to be done is to look up her Apple ID from her name, and then check the device ID registered with the Apple ID. If government-backed data (death certificate, will, solicitor's letter) isn't good enough, then I can't see how a written letter is anywhere close.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Strunf on 3/7/2014 11:19:33 AM , Rating: 2
hmm no, if I'm not mistaken all new Apple hardware will ask you to register with Apple and hence they know what you own, it as easy as checking a database to see if she owned or not the iPad they want to unlock.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By tayb on 3/6/14, Rating: -1
RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Manch on 3/6/2014 4:59:40 PM , Rating: 2
Ugh what?

They would have accepted a written letter from her. So how does a will she authorized and had notarized not count.

It's not ownership of the device that is in question. They want the account unlocked.

Also they had a solicitors letter!


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By tayb on 3/6/2014 5:15:07 PM , Rating: 1
A solicitors letter is meaningless unless it is backed by the court, which is what they are requesting.

A written letter would need to be notarized. Again, it is not the job of an Apple employee to try and interpret a will. That is the job of the executor. The executor needs to have the court back the interpretation of the will. A notarized letter in this case has more power than a notarized will. It's pretty ridiculous that people expect Apple employees to try and interpret a will. You can't be serious.

This is how transfer of property works. The ONLY reason this is an issue is because the children here want to save some cash and Apple is unwilling to bend their unlock policy.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By evo slevven on 3/6/2014 11:16:57 PM , Rating: 2
That was a pretty retarded answer more so with the "the children wanted to save some cash" response when it would've been more logical and understanding that they wanted to know more about their mom. As someone who lost a parent as well, it's the same act as going through a loved ones stuff. Sounds like I'm intruding but that happens a lot when you loose a loved one.

Likewise a lot of courts both in America, Europe and the UK set precedents as to what is required for a court order precedent. Additionally both the UK and the US have guidelines as to whether a court order is required. In the case of the UK where items of value and money are considered a court does uphold a letter of probate equivalent to a will IF a will is left and is found to be both valid and not in contest.

As the brothers agreed on the iPad, a court order would be required in typical cases of lack of a will, contesting of the last will and testimony or contesting of legitimate heirs to the will.

Additionally you are actually incorrect in how Apple is interpreting the events as the executor is one given the assignment of handling the assets of the estate in question in relation to the will. That would automatically denote it to a son if a lawyer was not selected in advance and need not require court authorization for any actions on their part in executing the will as long as all parties agree.

In the event there is a "disagreement" leading to a contesting of the assets then the courts need designate an administrator. An executor is different from an administrator albeit they function in a similar capacity.

If all the brothers were in agreement and a valid will is left and there is no contesting or disagreement of the will and its interpretation or the asset (being the iPad) in question then legally speaking, no you shouldn't need a court order.

You have no idea how the transfer of ownership exists in instances of deceased relatives so please sh*t your pie trap and either be informative about the material or not.

For the US, similar rules also apply but have restrictions on assets based on a state-to-state value of assets being over $10,000 and under $10,000. In some respects, if a will designates an individual and the individual presents the will (notarized), state issued death certificate as well as documentation of your identity then legal institutions are bound to hand over control of said assets granted they follow the prescribed limits of their state which can range from $5,000 and above.

This is just really a case of an Apple representative being lazy and the issue spiraling only because of said laziness and disinterest in customer service.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Shadowself on 3/6/2014 5:09:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The only reason this is in the news is because Apple devices cannot be reset to factory without the Apple ID and Password.
No. There is a known way of resetting the device to factory defaults without knowing anything about the account. You don't even have to turn off Activation Lock as most people believe (and Apple supports this belief).

The real issue is that they originally wanted access to her AppleID account and all the information on the iPad. This required more than just presenting documents that could have been faked. As "kmmatney" shows below, when they just wanted to reset the iPad itself so they could use it, Apple helped them. Problem solved.

And to those who believe that Apple *must* be able to associate an iPad with an AppleID account... It is very possible to activate an iPad and use an iPad without *ever* associating it with an AppleID or iTunes account. While I don't own (or use) an iPad (and likely never will for my own, personal reasons), I know several people who do and many of them refuse to have an Apple account of any kind. Thus IF the iPad was set up that way, even though she had an AppleID and account, there is no way to guarantee a priori that this specific iPad was actually tied to that account.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By stm1185 on 3/6/2014 5:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
Oh Cmon Apple is doing the right thing by keeping the Mom;s porn stash safe. Apple should wipe the device and the account, then give it back.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By JackBurton on 3/6/2014 10:41:06 PM , Rating: 1
Please stop with your anti-Apple bullsh!t. I for one am happy Apple goes to this level to protect their customers' information. I don't give a sh!t what sob story you give me. Get a court order if your relative didn't think to write down their Apple credentials before they passed. Sorry, not going to give out user information because you want a $500 device. Should have included Apple credentials in the will.

Nothing new to see here though. Just your standard anti-Apple troll BS from the usual suspects.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/7/2014 7:47:49 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Nothing new to see here though. Just your standard anti-Apple troll BS from the usual suspects.
And just your standard Apple can do no wrong bullshit troll.


RE: Jesus H Christ Apple....
By marvdmartian on 3/10/2014 7:49:45 AM , Rating: 2
I'd be willing to bet that they'd give the son a nice trade-in value for the mother's iPad, if he were to buy a new one. Transferring her content would, of course, necessitate a "minor" fee.


"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki